Does what we are doing here matter? [Update]

Not all the people who live around me. They’ll be so revolted by Obama and Wright that they’ll vote against the other Democrats.

The governor of my state — who has a TOUGH TOUGH TOUGH reelection fight coming up in November — has endorsed Obama very publicly.

The people who live around me will take due note of her endorsement. And punish her accordingly.

They’re already sore because she won in 2004 by a few hundred votes, and many think she “stole” the election through crooked Democratic politics in Seattle/King County. And Dino Rossi, who barely lost to her in 2004, is running against her again. He’s smart, charismatic, articulate.

I was planning on working hard on her reelection. Now I’m so turned off, I wonder how much I’ll do for her. (Hopefully, for the sake of the state and because she’s done a pretty darn good job as governor, I’ll get over it and help her. But it will be difficult. I’m sick and tired of forcing myself to support these people who don’t deserve my support.)

Here’s that article Eyeing Obama Coattails

By Alexander Bolton
Posted: 03/12/08 07:55 PM [ET]

Democratic lawmakers are becoming persuaded that Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) would have a more positive impact on other Democrats on the November ballot than Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.).

Obama’s advantage over Clinton would be most pronounced in the Southern and Western states President Bush carried in 2000 and 2004, say lawmakers interviewed by The Hill. In total, 32 members of Congress from these “red states” have endorsed Obama. Twenty-two lawmakers from those states have backed Clinton.
…
…

Pelosi and Dean need to read the Dallas Morning News piece on the Obama voters not bothering to vote in any of the down ticket races. They picked Obama and left the voting booth.

I believe historically, the country has done better when one party holds the WH and the other the House and Senate.

A makes a more synergistic body of government when one cannot go forward without the other. Period.

Perhaps what we should be discussing and emphasizing also is that with a Democratic President elected in November, we would be back to one party rule.

And total power corrupts … everyone.

Now imagine Olbamarmann and his crazy uncle with all that power?

I think some Obama devotees have to go through some face-saving in order to disengage from him. What would really help is if a prominent Obama delegate switched to Hillary.

I agree. And to add, not only are people pouring over the audience shots, they’re still pouring over the tapes themselves. Isn’t each Sunday sermon taped and sold? Either way, I think we’re not done with the outrageous and offensive clips from Wright. And the clips we’ve seen have come from a number of speeches, not just one or two, so the excuse Obama has given that he somehow missed the offensive speeches is going to look more and more ludicrous the more clips are produced from different speeches. I really do think that this is just one scandal too many for the Obama campaign, especially as this one looks like it’s not going away anytime soon. How many shady characters can Obama make excuses for? He recently said he still considers Tony Rezko a friend. He considers Rev. Wright to be an uncle. How many lapses in judgment can we be asked to excuse from the man whose sole claim to the presidency is his judgment?

The Wright issue is immediately resonant with people — we immediately see a man cursing and damning America, and we see connections to Obama that are easy for everyone to understand — he married Barack and Michelle, he baptized their children, he brought Barack to Jesus. And he is rabidly anti-American. Rezko is a little bit more involved — but this one, this is easy to grasp.

Oh, yeah, and Nancy Pelosi? She supported Al Wynn. Looks like people are getting used to ignoring her voting preferences.

I understand your agreement, but I completely disagree, and it is part of my contempt for the left and its inability to deal with racism and the reality of the world.

I don’t disagree with much of what Rev. Wright feels. I do believe the US has some culpability in 9/11 from its behavior around the Middle East and abandoning Afghanistan. I would never believe the people who died in the WTC, Pentagon, or Pennsylvania field deserved it at all. But our government with our tacit approval has killed tons more people before that day.

And I agree with his view that many wealthy white folks are responsible for much of what happens in our poor communities of all color. I agree that the legacy of the US has so much blood on its hands in its treatment of the black community that one can only expect lasting resentments. THE NEED to express such outrage is obvious.

Where he lost me and frankly discredited himself was when he said Hillary had never been called the word that Obama may have been called, but lets be honest, she’s been called all the names that can sexists can call her for YEARS. So I’m sure she can relate.

My friend tried to say, “but he was saying that to respond to whether Bill Clinton should be called America’s first Black President…”
SO WHAT, She has been called vile sexist comments and to make the standard for understanding it be actually experiencing it is ludicrous and self serving. I don’t believe white men can say that, but women who have been called these vile names certainly could relate to the humiliation. Give me a fucking break, preacher man.

Then to buy into the “aids was intentionally inflicted on the black community” is intellectually dishonest. I would agree that Reagan’s admin, Bush I’s admin willfully ignored the AIDS epidemic, and their willful ignorance was supported by their homophobic and racist views. But without evidence on the level of the Tuskegee Experiments, its a leap. I’m open to facts on this.

But the bottom line for me about how this affects Obama is that he has now waffled in his support for his mentor, spiritual teacher. If it were me, I’d have said, “what is wrong about what he said?” and played it out, if I was a loyal $22,500 donation level friend of the church. He threw him under a bus in these interviews. “Well, uh…he’s like that crazy uncle ya got.”

Yeah?
Well, I’ll defend my fucking uncles against Obama anyday, or Hillary Clinton, or that pencil twit Hannity. Where is this guy?

“Uh rezko was just a friend, er a minor consultant about land, er…major campaign force behind my career, er..never got influenced by him, er…judge me…er…”

This is where my problem with Obama is rooted.

As for Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s comments or those of Michelle Obama, I view it from my card carrying Democratic Mom….she was offended at Mrs. Obama’s sudden pride. She said to me, “oh, now she’s proud because America accepted her husband? give me a fucking break.”

My mom is a bit old school compared to her radical, can’t understand how he got that way, did I raise him, politically active son. I tried to talk about reparations with her and she didn’t want to talk about it. She has also been clear that the reason is that this happened a long time ago and she’s not racist and our family never owned slaves because we were too poor historically.

Unfortunately she’s incorrect about a couple ancestors including Henry Zorn of NY who had 13 slaves and was a blacksmith in the RevWar of the US. Mostly the rest of the family never did, but it doesn’t matter to me. I want repairing. I want the action of repairing our nation’s racial divisions and inequality with such a passion I’d make Obama look like fucking David Duke if you got me going. (slight joke don’t go ballistic).

But her voice is common around many many newspaper comment sections, in CSPAN calls in the morning on Washington Journal, and in many of the blogs and areas of middle america who do not like racially charged political talk.

I think TalkLeft should grow up and let the dialectic work its wonders. You are not going to see America get behind its racist past by not letting people talk about Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Now on our Youtube channel, when I posted clips about William Ayers, I said clearly, “we will not accept posts that deal with Rev Wright because they are off topic. Comments will deal with Obama’s connections to Ayers or the Weather Underground.

But in the post we just put of Major Garrett’s interview, its open season, so long as it isn’t stupid and can be sourced.

Malcolm X was wise to say:
“It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks.”

And the reality remains, especially with constant reports of nooses, swastikas, racist practical jokes involving nooses, whiteface…etc…that the attack on the black community continues.

But if Obama is going to be President, he can’t simply become president by having the overwhelming support of resentment and division. He’s got to be President for everyone. His waffling has exposed him as a fake. His lies about what he knew and when he knew it reveal him as an opportunist.

Rev. Wright is arrogant in his teachings. He is boisterous beyond what Jesus taught. And though I know he is accepted in a certain context, he is quite out of the mainstream of thought in America and an extremist in his views and delivery. This is a major achilles heal for Obama.

It wasn’t Hillary Clinton who played the fucking race card or even the gender card. It isn’t Clinton who benefits from playing either card.

The division of the Democratic party lays squarely at the foot of Barack Obama and his staffers, especially that fucking weasel David Axelrod, who is the typical white left racist prick you’re mama should have warned you about.

Conclusion: Fuck David Axelrod, Fuck Daily Kos, and Fuck Talk Left.

have a great sunday, go to church, and tell me that your pastor rants like a rooster while he or she teaches you humility, kindness and grace.
AMEN

The whole Wright thing is gonna blow up whether TL allows people to discuss it or not. You’re right Kathy, their blog, their decision, but that doesn’t keep me from having the opinion that it needs to be discussed. BTD thinks that Obama has a better chance in the general. But will that hold true with Wright hanging around his neck?

I have heard from several lifelong Democrats, Senior Citizens like myself, that they would never vote for Obama after hearing that his “preacher” actually said “God Damn America.” Many of them are angry about the Bush Administration, as I am, angry about the wimpy Democrats or treasonous Blue Dog Democrats in Washington, as I am, and had been pretty much guaranteed to vote for whatever Democratic candidate was nominated. Now, not so much.

They are angry about the whole damn Michigan and Florida fiasco;

Who the hell is the DNC to deny people their vote?

is the thing I hear most. This is going to be very ugly for the Democratic Party if Obama is the candidate.

Too many bridges burned by Obama fanatics and too many things being found out about him now.

Unfortunately, McCain will look far better to a whole lot of senior Citizens than a man who sat in church while his Minister said “God Damn America”. Doesn’t matter if he was really there or not if the perception is that he was.

I could never vote for McCain but I could never vote for a phony like Obama either.

I agree with you that this Wright stuff is going to stick around. And like you, I agree that if I had been there when something like this was said I would have walked if not run out of the place. And never returned.

And it takes a serious willing suspension of disbelief to accept that Obama knew nothing about these sermons. 20 years in a church like this with a Reverend like that and one expects that he has said this type of stuff more than the few examples that are making it around the news cycle. It is only rational to make the assumption. To buy into the argument that they were isolated incidents or that Obama did not experience them one would have to be under a spell or something. Or belong to a cult.

Yes, Kathy, Jeralynn threw me off because I mentioned Rev. Wright , quoting his exact words. Her email called me “racist.”

I am “auntmo,” and I won’t return to TalkLeft.

YOUR posts were marvelous, by the way.

Wow, Joey. What an astute, if cynical (ha!), observation. I like how you observe these situations … you’re sharp.

Ferraro is too good for words. She should never have given in.

Could be your assessment is right.

Let me add my own 2 cents worth. I think Pelosi is: (1) liking being the most powerful woman in the Demcratic Party and doesn’t want another woman stealing her thunder. Selfish but human.

(2) I think she believes in the same kind of conciliatory politics as Obama and thus he’s more her “type” of politician than Hillary. The word was that she was a tough old pol but she’s shown no signs of that whatsoever. The only time she’s been tough was when she took other Democrats to the woodshed if they stepped out of line. Otherwise she’s been pure Jell-O.

(3) I think the Democratic Party has all ready decided that having a AA President would make us look “better” and thus the world would see us as “racist no more”. They believe they can erase the images of the victims of Katrina that showed us for what we are to the people of the world.

I am right with you there about not voting for Obama.

BTW.. I really like your site.

ChicagoIL: good that you emailed her. Thanks.
Pelosi’s behaviour is disgusting.

Good point. Let’s talk about issue again.

There will be a debate coming up and I heard that some scientist group want to ask candidates about research and funding. Maybe we can talk about that beforehand. It might be very interesting. HRC will be sharp again.

The Obama campaign made his “judgement” a key issue.

Ergo, his judgement in attending Wright’s church and taking his children there IS an issue.

I absolutely agree with you. Her association with Wright explains a lot of things.

From every article I have read, Michelle Obama is a super BITCH - and I do not often use that word. She really believes she entitled.

In the New Yorker article Turthteller linked to, she was telling blacks she and Obimbi are not trust fund ppeople and that “Uncle Dick” SHOULD set up one for them.

She is someone I would not deal with no matter her color. What people in this country need to understand is that Rascism or Bigotry is NOT bounded by color - it’s endemic all over the planet.

My favorite example was a student named Sanjay I had from India. He arrived at the age of 24 for grad school. Like all others from Inida he had finished his undergrad work in Engineering. Moreover, Sanjay lived in my upper middle class house in my upper middle class neighborhood for FOUR years. (He was such a mess I had to get a years extension for him)

When Sanjay arrived, he was 24 going on a very shy 14 emotionally. His mother had literally saved his life by putting him in a boarding school at the age of 10. His father despised him because he had inherited his fathers family dark skin, instead of his mother’s family light skin. Father apparently would find reasons to beat him until he was bloody, and had even broken his bones more than once.

In India, they NEVER vebalize anything bad about their families. It did not take long for me to see there was a huge problem. Everytime Sanjay’s father called, he literally wet his pants. Over a couple of months, I finally learned his father liked his “alocholic” beverages. The guy was obnoxious even when I answered the phone.

Well in the third year Sanjay lived with me, dear old dad decided he would do some checking up on sonny. He would call at 10:30 or 11:00 at night to see if Sanjay was there. I had finally gotten Sanjay to go out with young people, and yes there were two clubs they frequented. Must have looked like clubs in Dubai do today - very multi ethnic and interantional.

One night at 9 PM the doorbell rang, and there is Sanjay’s father with bags, determined to stay at my house. He was loaded, and nasty. I closed the door on him and called the police. While waiting the 7 minutes until they got there, Sanjay’s father was pounding on my door, yelling, and totally disturbing the neighbors. I am the one who had him arrested, and I am the one who went to court and pressed charges.

Sanjay admitttedly was a mess for a couple of months. His father got 3 months and extradition. Then Sanjay, after many converstations, realized I had done the right thing. I had to say over and over, No One, not even God himself, comes to my home, and plans to beat anyone bloody. It is against the law and against any human decency.

Several calls to India after that, and Sanjay had finally gotten my message through to his mother and siblings.

Sanjay’ fahter arrived back in India a changed, and more humble person. It was good for the entire family. When Sanjy graduated, I had his mother, and siblings stay with me. Not fully truting him, I had Dad stay at the Holiday Inn.

Sanjay went home and married within a few months. Even to this day I get calls and cards saying how Sanjay is a much better father, and more attentive to his children’s individual personalities. One visit by Sanjay’s married family provided me many opportunities to speak alone with his wife and children. I saw for myself that those four long interminable years, and my firm stand, really had helped the next generation in his family.

Racism and Bigotry are UGLY, no matter what part of the world they exist. Change can come, but it is not easy. Consistency and repetition, over, and over can solve the problem.

Something seems very very wrong about the video above to me. Since when does a candidate use the web to tell voters to re-register like this?

It seems like voters know how to vote and can make up their own minds about how they are going to do that.

I think there needs to be a reform about what is being done in the web in regards to all future elections, and this kind of tactic needs to be explored by the media VERY soon.

Susan, Sorry if I posted this already, this place moves so fast and I couldn’t find it and thought you’d be interested in the article http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JC04Aa01.html
Sing, o muse, the wrath of Michelle
By Spengler

The wrath of swift-footed Achilles, of which Homer called his muse to sing, nearly lost the Trojan War for the Greeks. The wrath of swift-tongued Michelle Obama well might lose the White House for her husband. We had a peek into her diary last week when the Obama campaign finally made public her undergraduate thesis, titled “Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community”. The contents of this remarkable document sharpen the profile of Obama’s women that I offered last week (Obama’s women reveal his secret Asia Times Online, February 26.)

Pelosi is basically changing role of Superdelegates midstream. She needs to release a statement correcting her comments.

But you either are not aware of the purpose of superdelegates or you misunderstand their purpose.

Superdelegates were created to lend unbiased weight to the candidate they thought had the best credentials to not only carry the mandate of the majority of the electorate but to actually win in November.

They were created specifically to NOT be aligned with the popular will of the electorate. Their purpose is to act as party elders and to support the candidate most qualified to WIN.

A reading of history explains this all. This is not something new. Or anything that Hillary has just made up to benefit herself. These are party rules.

It seems that the Obama supporters are all for party rules when they benefit their campaign (disenfranchising FL and MI) but totally against them when there is a potential to benefit Hillary (superdelegates).

There is much more coming.

I live here and you speak pretty much the truth. Also here, Pelosi is considered practically a Republican. She could be reacting to pressure from her constituents.

what do you mean by folding up tent then?

wacacc,

I’m sure you mean well but how well did your first two choices do with the mainstream american voters?

Believe it or not, Republican women are voting for Hillary. Disaffected Republicans may stay home, but if Obama is the nominee, they will be so scared for the future of this country they will show up and vote McCain.

BUT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE VOTING FOR HILLARY!!! You underestimate her (and us). People are always telling us she can’t win. And then she does. She doesn’t quit–and neither will we. If you read the analysis of electoral politics and how much better she fares in the general election stats you will see that she is a much better candidate for the GE. She consistently holds the core Dem vote, and is much more competitive in the swing states than Obama. Just because there is a false characterization of her out there does not mean we have to enable and endorse it. GO HILLARY!

I’m an anti-war person and I’ve already voted for Hillary.

Wacacc,

You bring up some valid points. Given how emotionally invested many voters are in the primaries, many Dems will be disappointed whoever the nominee is.

It may not end well for Dems, but November is a few political lifetimes away. A week or so ago, the public hadn’t foreseen the Ferrarro or Rev. Wright stuff. A month ago, the public hadn’t foreseen that Goolsbee and Power would make such credibility-damaging gaffes.

It’ll be interesting to see how this turns out. As I look to the future, I just can’t predict a thing, so I’m not betting money on anyone.

Incidentally, that someone supports Obama does not make the person irrational or brainless. Reasonable people can disagree about candidates.

The General Election strategy for Senator Clinton is very clear.

She polls very well among “soccer moms” and Latinos — two groups lost by John Kerry. (Soccer moms are those who identify with the GOP on the basis of class but the Democratic Party on the basis of gender and thus are the ultimate swing vote. Kerry lost them due to national security issues as will Obama). These two groups will make her competitive in enough “purple states” to win the overall election.

Specifically, if she carries all the Kerry states (very likely) she will only need 18 electoral votes to win the election. Here is where they can come from (electoral votes in parentheses):

Florida (27): she is slightly stronger than McCain with seniors; strong with Latinos.

Ohio (20): her economic policies play well with “Reagan Democrats”.

Arkansas (6): She was first lady of the state and knows it well.

Missouri (11): She ran extremely well in rural areas during the primary (unlike past Democrats); if she can secure the St. Louis base of primary African-Americans, then the state is blue.

New Mexico (5) Gore won it in 2000 and Kerry lost it in 2004 because he didn’t run well with Latinos; Clinton wins it with strong Hispanic turn-out.

Nevada (5) Migration into the state has it trending blue; Clinton polls well with Hispanics and the state is in her win column.

West Virginia (5) Hard economic times coupled with Clinton’s strong national security emphasis is enough to win this state.

Other states in play include: Colorado, Virginia, and North Carolina.

Now that is the electoral strategy. Here is Clinton’s winning message strategy.

1. It’s the economy stupid; McCain has already noted that he doesn’t know what he is doing in this regards.

2. Return the Democratic party to its liberal (FDR/Truman/JFK) roots by emphasizing national security. Do this by pointing out the failures of the Bush administration to make our national safer and stronger and show how democrats use the full force of America power (diplomacy, information/public diplomacy, military, and economic power) as opposed to the GOP who depends on our military to do all of its work.

3. Link Bush to McCain and McCain to Bush. Thanks to McCain’s mom for providing the video footage for this ad (recall how she said her son stood up for Bush).

4. Show that the straight-talk express is really just the double-talk local-yokel by pointing out inconsistencies on such thing as tax cuts (against it now for them) and his judgment on the war (claimed it would be an easy win at the beginning now claims he always said it would be hard).

Now, let’s see the electoral and message strategy for Obama. Any one care to venture into that realm or would you like me to do it?

Ohio was given a choice and they overwhelmingly told Obama to go to hell — largely because Obama lied about NAFTA. Voters in other states have a right to make their choice.

I don’t believe all of Obama’s shoes have been dropped — I believe that even more nasty secrets are going to be exposed in the days and weeks to come.

Every time the Obamabots show up demanding that Sen. Clinton quit for the good of the party — we learn one more of Obamacon’s nasty secrets (NAFTA-gate, Rezko, Rev. Wright and ??????).

So far people have been voting on the ILLUSION of someone called Obama. But now the voters are getting a look behind the curtain and they don’t like what they see of your candidate.

Obama is a liar — he keeps changing his story. People don’t like liars. He’ll get a core group of kookaid drinkers — but if the worst happens and he walks away with the Dem nomination — he will lose BIG in November.

There is no way that I will vote for a misogynistic megalomaniac like Obama. The guy is one of the dirtiest politicians I’ve seen — and he or his handlers scream — racist — if anyone tries to ask questions about his background. Turns out that HE is the racist. Anyone who goes to that racist church for nearly 20 years and doesn’t hear the in your face racism IS a racist.

Way back in the late 60s there was a group in the Bay Area called the Black Panthers. I wondered what happened to the Black Panthers — and now my question has been answered. Trinity Church in Chicago seems to have much of the Black Panther dogma as part of their religion.

Ironically Rev. Wright’s “jesus” is Obama — who isn’t a poor black man, but a well off bi-racial, raised by his white mother and white grandparents. It’s sort of like Obama finding a group who needs a messiah — so he becomes their messiah.

This information isn’t news to the GOP — they’ve been sending around email about Obama’s racist church for many months. Ironically someone sent me email about Obama’s church and I deleted it — deciding it was far fetched gossip.

There is no way Obama is going to win the General Election in November — if the DEM leadership is so stupid to force Obama on us. Nearly everyone I know will NOT vote for Obama. I won’t vote for him — ever.

“Republicans aren’t going to cross over and vote for Hillary”

And Republicans aren’t going to vote for Obama either. They will be voting to be Republican again. Now, I know there are some Republicans who voted for Obama because they seriously are sick of the GOP, but then…they aren’t Republicans anymore. But the majority of Republicans who went “democrat for a day” are not going to vote Democratic in November. Show me anytime in history where that occurred and I’ll reconsidered.

Independents might, but I know many independents who will only vote for Hillary or (hold their nose) and vote for Obama. And then there are some who will now simply vote for McCain because they already hated Hillary and they really don’t like Obama.

So it isn’t as easy as saying “obama will increase the party’s size” by swaying Republicans, the way Pelosi and others seem to be naively counting on.

Those Dems for A Day, are not Dems at all, never will be. They were encouraged to manipulate the system in the DNC to get rid of Clinton or whoever they voted AGAINST.

And if the “middle america” voter you referred to doesn’t want to be taxed, don’t vote for Obama either because you can guarantee his xeroxed copies of Hillary’s plans will likely include taxes. Unless you have another failed promise from him like Bush I “no new taxes”.

Anti-war folks, who I know best, may not vote for Clinton, but since they didn’t stop the war, haven’t gotten impeachment, are relatively few in numbers and thats something they just haven’t gotten used to. I know, I’ve spent too long with the various organizations and they are politically ineffective.

Ya know, footnote here about Anti-War pride in Obama’s great speech of October 2002:
I pointed out to my dear lady tonight that I too said what Obama said in 2002. She remembers it too. I said almost the same thing, no links to AQ, no WMD, diversion for oil, etc..
“but you too said that.”
“honey, I know you love me and all, but even then, do you think I’d make a great president?”
“uh…”
she said no…but tried to be nice.

Obama would have you believe this is the greatest ultimate test of judgement.
Then why did he slip and slide Friday in his quibble about Rezko and go from “boneheaded” decision, to “”The mistake, by the way, was not just engaging in a transaction with Tony because he was having legal problems. The mistake was because he was a contributor and somebody who was involved in politics.”

“My assessment of Tony Rezko was that he was an immigrant who had sort of pulled himself up by his bootstraps,”

SO much for his superior judgement. He’s a flake.

So who are the 12 million people who have voted for her? And who are the people in the Obama fold who say they will vote for Hillary if she is the nominee? What about the Democrats who are more than happy to vote for McCain if Obama was the nominee?

This anti-war person HAS voted for Hillary!

Anti-war people aren’t going to vote for Hillary.

This anti-war (Iraq, Iran) person has voted for Hillary Clinton.

Power Hungry - Given Obama’s history, totally discreditable actions, and his shameful associations - I would say that applies to just one person and that is Obama.

The misogyny and abuse both Hillary and Bill have exrerpienced this election is totally gutter level. GHWB desrves all the abuse in the world, but like it or not, Bill Clinton was a pretty good President, and EARNED the respect of people all over the planet.

You need to understand something. I, and from the last Rasmussen Poll Susan published before the Wright fiasco, 41% of us Democrats WILL NOT vote for Obama- Period. I will even go further and say I will not vote Democrat if Obama is on the ticket. Research has shown me that he definitely belongs in jail, and not anywhere near the levers of governance or power.

The Greeks use to say that the CHARACTER of their leaders predicted the future of their city states. That is as true today, as it was then. Obama’s character is absolutely reprhensible.

One matter people seem to be catering to on the Dem side unfortunately is the black population and attempting to not piss them off!

No, the issue needs to be discussed, the problem is Republicans, and even Axelrod, would exploit this issue, to the detriment of the country.

Neither apparently capable of intelligent nuanced thinking.

A hateful, mean-spirited woman with a grudge.

Great posts below and thank you for all your hard work.

This comment:

Michelle Obama is out of touch with the mainstream.

A major understatement perhaps, to put it mildly?

Please write her, flea. Every note, letter counts. Write before Monday so she knows her weekend comments to George Steph. did not go over well.

I have to agree on Pelosi. I kept rationalizing the new Democratic management from the start. Now I see they are simply ineffective leaders.

This is the year of true change. And those that stand in the way risk everything.

Incredible moments in history we are living, aren’t they?

And better than at any time in the past, each and everything is being recorded. There will be no escape for anyone! Truths, lies, predictions …

(Goo’nite Tucker. Miss you not already.)

I felt betrayed by her the day she said, “impeachment is not on the table.”
This prejudice of hers is a direct attack on her own oath. She told me who she was the moment she said that. The wrank arrogance of her and others who decide political superiority is sickening.

I doubt too that our emails will make any difference. After all the public’s rage at Democrats for not doing what they were elected to do, i.e. end the occupation of Iraq hasn’t changed anything. The fact that she took impeachment off the table is another sign that she doesn’t give a damn about what the people think or want.

I was overjoyed when a woman was finally elected to be speaker of the house. Now I am once again sadly disappointed because she may be a woman, but she’s quite obviously not the right kind of woman; a woman with guts.

So I emailed her not believing for a minute that she’ll pay any attention. But I got in my 2 cents worth and feel better for getting some of the bile out of my system. But not much better.

Cindy Sheehan? Anyone but Pelosi, but I took a look at a Sheehan site (blogs?) and saw some strong support for Wright and Obama being expressed there. ???

Because she went to Ivy League schools - she seems to think that the world now owes her. Talk about the arrogance and bigotry that she accuses others of having!

The French adage applies: Qui accuse, s’accuse!

Someone should give her a MIRROR so she can see how her words reflect back on her.

The cluster-bomb amendment was not simple. Here it is (from Thomas):

“Sec. 8109. No funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act my be obligated or expended to acquire, utilize, sell, or transfer any cluster munition unless the rules of engagement applicable to the cluster munition ensure that the cluster munition will not be used in or near any concentrated population of civilians, whether permanent or temporary, including inhabited parts of cities or villages, camps or columns of refugees or evacuees, or camps or groups of nomads.”

The way it’s written, the cluster bombs couldn’t even be transported — which I doubt is what the drafter meant.

What about the case where an unexploded cluster bomb was found on the side of a road? The sloppy language of the amendment seems to make it illegal to pick it up and transfer it to another location.

Frankly, though, I’ve NO IDEA why Hillary voted against the amendment.

Shirin: you don’t understand. We know very well Sen. Clinton’s record and we support her with our eyes wide open.

Question is: will Obama supporters insist on he
being “holier than thou” and continue to vote for him with your eyes wide shut?

We are trying to learn who Obama really is. Do you?

These posts are because we are discovering very troubling aspects of Obama (e.g. Wright). And these are facts about who he is. Nothing you say about Clinton will change these facts.

As I said, we know who Clinton is, thank you.

This post&thread is about Pelosi and some elite media outlets. So you are way off topic here.

BTW, who are you cutting and pasting from anyway?

I do not support cluster bombs. It is a single issue with which I take issue with Hillary. But in the grand scheme of things that difference is minor. I agree with her on nearly everything else. I can’t say the same thing about Obama.

Did you just come from the bar?

And you are a freaking dope.

She’s paid off by the right wing that hates her with a passion seldom seen in politics?

Your deductive powers are sadly deficient. As is your spelling.

You are entitled to your stupidity, I mean opinion.

believe that both Larry Johnson and Hillary Clinton are rubes for right wing money and exist to infiltrate and neuter the left.

And the left fights back brilliantly, dont they?

Shitheads to the left of me, shitheads to the right…

Who are you?

Larry Johnson is an espoused Republican

Really? How do you know that? Larry is one of the sanest and most intelligent people in the blogosphere, along with Susan Hu of course.

As to right wing tactics, hmm let’s count them.

1. Buses people from out of state to vote in causcuses

2. Has supporters slam doors on opposition voters at caucuses.

3. Actively solicits Republicans and Indpedents to vote Democrat in open Primaries and caucuses.

4. Violates state election laws at will.

5. Serial liar on just about every topic.

6. ILLEGALLY BUYS votes, and delagates with Senate Leadership PAC money

7. Uses Race Card indiscriminately

8. Misogyny rampant and has resulted in total gutter level tee shirts, mugs, and, as far as I can read, porographic web sites.

9. Associates with known terrorists and takes campaign money from them.

10. Pouts and storms away when loses or doesn’t chose to discuss known judgements from the past.

And who is this RETHUGLICAN - Why it’s Barack Obama!

I agree Lorelynn. You should organize a day where all of us send Pelosi a letter, say on Thursday or Friday so when she gets to her office on Monday she’ll have a ton of mail.

You can write about this on Taylor Marsh’s hot topics and continue to tell people on posts on TM’s forums that whatever day you choose is the “Mail Bomb” day when we each send Pelosi and/or Dean a postcard or letter telling the to seat the delegates or we vote McCain.

What do you think? I’m willing to participate.

I remember that brief! Man, that was a gunshot heard through the feminist community. I had no idea that was her. Boy. Oh boy. I can’t believe this.

~simmering~

It’s also at this point that you see the slow suicide of a loser, whether it be the Cheney in Iraq, or the Democrats and Pelosi.

So you walk away, the same as having an addicted family member, if you try to rescue someone with deep psychological problems, you end up destroying yourself, and the addict still goes down.

So you work on the things you can.

I don’t think I would vote for McCain but I certainly won’t support Obama.

sara_c thank you for sharing. Your words are very powerful given that you switched.

Very wise moves! Your on line name can create confusion as to sexual identity though.

tiffany:

this is what is so absurd about Pelosi comments on the popular vote. How can she be so dismissive of the popular vote given what happened in FL in 2000 with Gore vs Bush?

How can Pelosi continue to be the chair of the convention?

She needs to correct her statements in public fast.

Email her if you can and wish to.

“I know you’ve ruled out people who drive a Prius, latte drinkers and Whole Food shoppers.”

They should all be damned, according to Rev Wright. God Damn America.

Cee,

I am so sick and tired of you being totally off topic.

I really liked you at one time. Now it seems you have become a paid shill of the garbage Obama camp.

How much does Obama pay you to shill on your radio show for him? Are you paid per show or did you get a certan amount? How much do you get to troll this site? Do you get more that Markos?

Full disclosure required - otherwise just stay over at the Orange Satan PLEASE!

Cee copied and pasted again.

“This Fourth of July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice, I must mourn…your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sound of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants brass fronted impudence; your shout of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanks-givings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy — a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the people of the United States, at this very hour.”

Right on target and precisely accurate to this very day!!
Hear, hear…!!!!!!!

“We need to stop lumping folks together and start living together.”

Peachy!

If God Damn America is not lumping folks together, I don’t know what it.

And this one is good too.

“But you got some Muslims who don’t do that. You got some Christians who ain’t got time to lynch people.”

Some Muslim don’t do that, some Christians just don’t have the time - if they do have time, lynch they will. Old uncle Wright is good.

Wright preaches that Jesus was BLACK - In other words he makes an issue of the color of his and thereby everyones elses skin color as motivation for action. That’s called Racsim and Biogtry.

Jesus was the color the people of Palestine or Jordan are today. He was a Semite - just like them.

And what the hell do things like peace, justice, and equality have to do with the color of a persons skin?

And I CAN tell you the difference between Sunnis and Shias. The Sunnis pray with their arms to the side, and the Shias hold them clasped in front. Then there is a historical difference as to who should have been the religious head after Mohammed, which was more tribal and secular in nature than religious.

Outward form, which is what the differences are, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the basic message.

Just as in Japan the depth of the bow, has more to do with the respect you EARN. Yet everyone greets everyone with a bow - the difference being the depth.

So how does Rev. Wright’s blatant biogtry and outright abuse of the bible help those values you so ardently claim to espouse?

For now I’m with Hillary, but I’ll gladly support the Democratic nominee no matter who it is

Obama is corrupt, THAT is cognitive dissonance, understanding he is a liar, connected to terrorists, and still voting for him.

He is part of the corruption, why would he be any better than a republican?

Eatbees,

African Americans are not the ONLY group that has experienced discrimination.

I was widowed at the age of 33. The corporate world was brutal for a woman then. Yet I persisted and succeeded until I veered off into education.

Asian Americans also have had, and still have, problems. Jews, the Irish, Italians - you name it.

To address just a SINGLE group which is what AA’s are trying to do is wrong - you are trying to change symptoms and have not come anywhere near addressing the problems.

People simply do not want to admit Bush and Cheney and the whole crew have no fucking clue what they’re doing, period. And that’s because it takes SMART people to run a country, not the latest fad in corporate management.

Clinton is our best bet, and MAYBE McCain, in terms of understanding what needs to be done, and how, having the foresight and enlightened intellect to rebuild Mid East relations, reasserting American competency, for lack of a better word.

It is an incredibly difficult job for smart people, and seeing how the Obama camp, people like kos, think, it ain’t gonna come from there.Obama is a weak child, world asymmetric war is NOT like playing Halo, from your living room couch.

Pelosi can’t seem to grasp the impression Obama makes, the stuttering, the complete lack of content in his paint by number speeches, clearly conveying the man doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about, ever. And then there is the terrorist connection, and any loyalty he may owe Auchi, Libya, or Rezko, and Syria.

The Democrats behind Obama are the weakest, IMO, the worst to handle the job.

And they refuse to see it.

Heh. See http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/bobamasunlikelypoliticaledu.html

re Obama’s crowd manipulation techniques in Chicago (teaching Saul Alinsky methods).

An example of opportunism:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/14/AR2008031403677.html

The Crude [Oil] Case for War?

Done.

Dear Madam Speaker,

From your comments, you appear to working to promote the nomination of Senator Barack Obama over Senator Hillary Clinton. That would be a disaster for the Democratic Party, reminiscent of what happened to us in 1968 and 1972.

The hateful, dishonest, corrupt, and inept baggage that Senator Obama brings to his campaign will drag the Democratic Party down across the slate.

The Primaries have been a disaster, thanks to the DNC’s wanting to protect the unbalancing impact of Iowa and New Hampshire.

The Texas Primary was a nightmare (my primary), in that the caucuses were as unrepresentative as any political strong-arm tactic I’ve ever seen.

The Florida voters, through no fault of their own, are being denied their votes for the SECOND time this decade… first by the Republicans, and now by the Democrats.

We are becoming a parody of Democracy.

You’re right. The “Independents” (or is that, to borrow your terminology, the “Incontinents”) have fielded such strong candidates and direct National policy so well for the betterment of America.

Oh, wait. You’re not on the ballot. My bad.

It’s pretty easy to game those with a homogeneous POV, really really easy.

Democracy allows the best solution to be hashed out, period.

It’s laborious, but MOST of the stupid shit gets tossed out, recognized for the trash it is… (if we had had a functioning Congress, Iraq would never have been invaded, in a state of denial, like a child believing in fairy tales, it’ll will all work out…But the money is too tempting, I suppose).

It’s why America has achieved cultural dominance.

DEMOCRACY.

You know, some people have all the intellectual complexity of a porta potty interior.

And just as smelly. Sometimes I feel like Stinky Diver, from Justice League NOW! reading how some people think.

What are the intellectual dynamics of those raised in a culture of equality, where independence is encouraged, v those who are brought up in culturally homogeneous environment, taught to defeat difference?

Who won the cold war? It sure wasn’t Cheney…

What drives me craziest most of all is that if Obama is nominated (as increasingly seems likely, sad to say

Don’t forget Penn. this is the big push time for the Obama tools.

Which works to Clinton’s advantage, they don’t grasp it.

Great summary