Shelby Steele on CNN’s Lou Dobbs

Steele was on with Lou Dobbs yesterday evening. Whatever you may otherwise think of Lou Dobbs, I found his remarks and his questions of Steele to be particularly thoughtful and well-expressed — as you’ll see below the fold. First, these are two key remarks regarding the firestorm over Rev. Jeremiah Wright:

(1) DOBBS: I want to begin, if I may, by asking what your reaction is to what Senator Obama said on that radio show in Philadelphia this morning.

STEELE: Well, he showed how easy it is to slip up, among other things because actually Jesse Jackson, interestingly, has confessed to walking to the other side of the street when he sees young black men as well. It’s not a response that’s exclusive to whites … [Readers' background article: "Breaking: My grandmother is 'typical' white person"]

(2) STEELE: Yes, Senator Obama is what I call a bargainer. Bargainers are blacks who enter the mainstream and give whites the benefit of the doubt, trust them, not to be racists. Whites respond to bargainers very warmly with a lot of gratitude.

Challengers are people like Reverend Wright who never give whites the benefit of the doubt, who want to hold their feet to the fire, see that as black power. Well, America likes Barack Obama because he is a bargainer, precisely because he is not an Al Sharpton or a Jesse Jackson or a Reverend Wright, so when they see that he has fellow traveled with someone like that, gone to his church for over 20 years, it confuses most Americans.

Are you a bargainer or are you a challenger? Do you trust us or don’t you trust us? And so it’s worrisome. It bothers people to see that kind of connection. [Readers' background articles at No Quarter: See Rev. Jeremiah Wright]

Now, the full interview — including Lou Dobbs’ interestingly phrased and thought-out questions:

(I won’t indent the rest of this, for ease of reading.)

I’m joined now by Shelby Steele. Shelby Steele is senior research fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. He’s written a number of very important books on race on our society, a provocative book on Senator Obama “A Bound Man: Why we are excited about Obama and why he can’t win.”

Shelby Steele joins us live from Monterey, California tonight — Shelby, good to have you with us.

SHELBY STEELE, AUTHOR, “A BOUND MAN: WHY WE ARE EXCITED ABOUT OBAMA AND WHY HE CAN’T WIN”: Good to be here.

DOBBS: You wrote a fascinating piece in the op-ed section in “The Wall Street Journal”. Your observations are provocative. I want to begin, if I may, by asking what your reaction is to what Senator Obama said on that radio show in Philadelphia this morning.

STEELE: Well, he showed how easy it is to slip up, among other things because actually Jesse Jackson, interestingly, has confessed to walking to the other side of the street when he sees young black men as well. It’s not a response that’s exclusive to whites.

DOBBS: Right. And the idea of talking about this typical white person, that kind of language, I have to tell you I am struck by some of the missteps and what I consider to be missteps and misstatements of this senator. I honestly am not sure how fully formed and how mature Senator Obama’s views and thinking and emotions are on the issue of race himself, as he challenges the entire nation on the issue. What’s your reaction?

STEELE: Right. Well, he stayed away from race throughout his — I mean scrupulously throughout his entire campaign, but now he’s gotten into trouble with Jeremiah Wright, his pastor, so now we’re going to have a national discussion of race. And that may not be a good thing. It — you know President Clinton had a national discussion on race that went nowhere. So one wonders if this is sincere or just a way to sort of change the subject from his minister.

DOBBS: Well, I’ll tell you one thing. Shelby, I don’t know how you feel about it, but on this — on my broadcast, we’re going to be talking about race. We’re going to do so because I think it’s important. I mean, there are all sorts of issues to take up, but amongst them, whether it’s the war on drugs, whether it’s the fact that one in nine young black men in this country are in prison, whether it is the discrepancy between incomes amongst racial groups in this society. And certainly, the impact of that disparity in income, and the influence it has on opportunity within this society of ours. It’s a fundamental it seems to me to the American dream for all Americans.

STEELE: I absolutely agree. I just — I hope it will be a — there is no issue around which political correctness is more oppressive than the issue of race.

DOBBS: Right.

STEELE: And so I’m all for dialogue, but I hope we’ll be — I hope we’ll all say politely, but say what we really think and feel about it.

DOBBS: Well, let me ask you, what do you think and feel about the relationship between black Americans, white Americans and other races in 2008 America?

STEELE: I think it’s never been better. I grew up in segregation. I can remember a drastically different America than the one I live in today. Today, my experience is that most whites are willing to give me the benefit of the doubt, and I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. And I’ve just found an enormous amount of openness, a willingness to look at this thing, this issue in an honest way. That’s been my actual experience.

DOBBS: I want to ask you, also, before I go to the next question, and that is Jeremiah Wright and his — the bile that he was spewing, whatever the reason, whatever the context, whatever else he did say, whatever else his words, that kind of language, a number of people on this broadcast, in fact, have said that some of his comments, some of the more hateful comments, in fact, are typical of the traditional black church in this country.

And I’ve got black friends who are saying that is absolutely untrue. There’s a contest over that. What role does a black church play in both resolving and perpetuating racial tension in this society of ours?

STEELE: Well, the black church has always been an extremely important institution in black America. Certainly, the civil rights movement evolved out of the black church. But that’s a long way from Reverend Wright who it seems to me is rather demagogic and actually preaches hate almost as a kind of consolation for his flock. And that is not normal in a black American church today. That’s not the norm.

DOBBS: And that being the case, this is going to be, I would assume, you think a problem that’s going to continue for some time for Senator Obama then to explain that relationship?

STEELE: Yes, Senator Obama is what I call a bargainer. Bargainers are blacks who enter the mainstream and give whites the benefit of the doubt, trust them, not to be racists. Whites respond to bargainers very warmly with a lot of gratitude.

Challenges are people like Reverend Wright who never give whites the benefit of the doubt, who want to hold their feet to the fire, see that as black power. Well, America likes Barack Obama because he is a bargainer, precisely because he is not an Al Sharpton or a Jesse Jackson or a Reverend Wright, so when they see that he has fellow traveled with someone like that, gone to his church for over 20 years, it confuses most Americans.

Are you a bargainer or are you a challenger? Do you trust us or don’t you trust us? And so it’s worrisome. It bothers people to see that kind of connection.

DOBBS: And we’re running out of time. I hope, Shelby, you’ll come back here as we continue this discussion on this broadcast. It just seems at a time when Americans have less trust than ever in their elected officials and government, it’s more critical than ever for us to start in this society, irrespective of race or religion, whatever, start giving one another, as you put it and I love the expression, the benefit of the doubt.

If we can start trusting each other, maybe we can get this government back to where we need it so that we can start delivering on the promise made to everybody, all Americans, some 200 years ago. Shelby Steele, it’s great to read your books.

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: It’s great to talk to you. I hope you’ll come back soon.

STEELE: I’d be happy to anytime.

DOBBS: Time now for our poll question: Do you believe that Senator Kerry’s and Senator Obama’s remarks today on race damaged the Obama campaign? We’d like to hear from you on that. Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We’ll have the results here later in the broadcast. And we’ll be talking a lot more about race and politics ahead here.