Hillary and Bosnia [Updated]
By SusanUnPC on March 25, 2008 at 1:53 PM in Hillary Clinton
I hope that some intrepid reporter points out to Sinbad that the KEY reason he felt so safe on that trip with Hillary was the extremely effective protection he received from (1) the U.S. military as well as (2) the U.S. Secret Service. Without their sharp-eyed protection (look at how they are surrounded by phalanxes of troops) and a great deal of advance planning, it would have been dangerous as hell — and neither of those superbly trained protectors can ever 100% guarantee the safety of any situation. Any situation. Particularly a WAR ZONE.
1996 Clinton Bosnia Trip (CBS News):
This not only shows that the trip had its hazards (more on that below, including her misstatement), but it also shows how — in one very vivid example — for over 16 years, she has been around the world, on front lines and in the most remote and bleak parts of the globe, as has been well-documented throughout this blog, and in her Wikipedia biography (which is an extraordinary reading experience, and cemented my OWN support for her candidacy). [The UPDATE is at the end of the story.]
Hillary recently misspoke about her trip to Bosnia. She accurately describes the trip in her book, Living History:
‘Due to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip, we were forced to cut short an event on the tarmac…’ “Security conditions were constantly changing in the former Yugoslavia, and they had recently deteriorated again. Due to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip, we were forced to cut short an event on the tarmac with local children, though we did have time to meet them and their teachers and to learn how hard they had worked during the war to continue classes in any safe spot they could find. … We were then off to the fortified American base at Tuzla, where over two thousand American, Russian, Canadian, British, and Polish soldiers were encamped in a large tent city.” [Living History, p. 343]
Contemporaneous news accounts confirm that Hillary’s trip to Bosnia was a dangerous situation:
Hillary’s trip to Bosnia marked the first time since Eleanor Roosevelt that a first lady traveled to a potential combat zone. Accompanied by singer-songwriter Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad, Mrs. Clinton traveled to this northwestern Bosnian town on a morale-boosting tour for the 18,500 U.S. troops participating in the NATO-led peacemaking operation. She heard a poem of peace from a Bosnian girl and praised U.S. troops for ’showing what American leadership is.’…This trip to Bosnia marks the first time since Roosevelt that a first lady has voyaged to a potential combat zone. During World War II, Roosevelt toured the devastated streets of London and the southwestern Pacific, bringing cheer to U.S. troops. [Washington Post, 3/26/96]
Hillary was ‘protected by sharpshooters’ in a ‘military zone’ when she visited troops in Bosnia. “Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal ‘thank you, thank you, thank you’ to U.S. troops. ‘They’re making a difference,’ the first lady said of the 18,500 Americans working as peacekeepers in Bosnia. Mrs. Clinton became the first presidential spouse since Eleanor Roosevelt to make such an extensive trip into what can be considered a hostile area, though others have visited hot spots…” [Charleston Gazette, 3/26/96]
::::::::::::::::::::::::
From her Wikipedia biography:
Hillary Clinton traveled to 79 countries during this time,[151] breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.[152] In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in the People’s Republic of China itself,[153] declaring “that it is no longer acceptable to discuss women’s rights as separate from human rights”[153] and resisting Chinese pressure to soften her remarks.[151] She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.[154][155] She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.[156]
TIP: Go to the actual Wikipedia bio page to access the links in that paragraph.
:::::::::::::::::::
UPDATE: Joe Klein on CNN’s AC360 last night:
JOE KLEIN, COLUMNIST, “TIME”: Well, actually, tonight, I had dinner with someone who was on that plane…
COOPER: Sinbad?
KLEIN: … with Hillary Clinton.
(LAUGHTER)
KLEIN: And — and the fact is that they were told that there was — that they had to take evasive action because of sniper fire, one of those precipitous landings that a lot of us have — have taken, but, on the ground, there was obviously no problem.
It’s a war story, and — and she exaggerated it. And it doesn’t speak well of her. And it’s very un-Hillary like. But could I just, for the sake of the fact that we’re in silly season now, and everybody — all these candidates are totally exhausted, just plead for charity, not only for her, but for the Obama supporters who have said embarrassing things in the next segment and…
(LAUGHTER)
KLEIN: … for John McCain a week ago?
I mean, these are not the important issues in the election. The important issues are two wars, an economic crisis, and — and the need for energy independence.
COOPER: Yes, but, you know, there are a lot of folks out there who — I guess, in this case, it’s probably more Obama supporters — and, clearly, the Obama campaign says this is important. This is a candidate who has talked about her role in the Northern Ireland peace agreements and other issues about going to Kosovo and going to Macedonia and negotiating on behalf of Kosovo refugees.
You think this is all, Joe, just part of silly season?
KLEIN: I think that there is — that being first lady really isn’t the greatest credential for being commander in chief. But that’s something that we have known in the past.
The question is whether you blow up these little exaggerations that everybody makes, including candidates, to the point where it obscures the real issues in the campaign. I’m willing to give her a break on this one, even though, as I said, it’s very much unlike her, and it’s clearly her telling a war story.
I like Klein’s comments. While he is critical, he is also fair. And he points out the fatigue factor as well as the far worse, and cruel, comments by Obama’s campaign staff.
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By Sarah Palin (Release date: November 17. 2009)
It’s astonishing to me the exacting detail that Obadroids subject Hillary to at the same time they let Obama’s outright prevarications pass through a channel the breadth of the Pacific Ocean.
I’d not have wanted to visit Bosnia at that time. Afterall the Serbs killed Archducke Franz Ferdinand triggering the world wars that scarred our century, so they were no innocents as far as assassination goes.
Also she’s visiting the troops. Seems kinda rough to bag on her for doing that. She didn’t need to go doing that sort of tour of forward base camps.
Someone needs to post that picture of Tony Snow or whoever that was flying in Iraq. He looked like he needed to puke. Tell me he wasn’t terrifed. I don’t think that helicopter was under actual fire at the tiem either.
If Obama had been flying into a combat zone, I imagine he would embellish it.At least Hillary has a war story. Head of subcommitttee on NAFTA has not ever visited Afghanistan.
Like Sir Harry Flashman VC KG i’d have politely declined the invite to Bosnia and give the invitee to the expedition a swift kick in the pants for ruining by carousing and gambling time. What? Me is a muddy bloody field? It’ll ruin me cherrypicker togs me old son.
You mean this one?
Its a great shot.
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/694/snowandbartlettthumbnz0.jpg
Obama aleady embellishes his past, but if nobody calls him on it, its useless and if they do, “its an orchestrated campaign by Hillary Clinton to destroy him”
I do believe a mashup of Hillary striding through the mud of Bosnia contrasted with Senator SnakeOil bounding around the Oprah set in his $15,000 suit would drive the point home.
Have we elected a President since WWII who had never been to Europe?
What that you say?
Oh….yeah….
Does anyone know what Barack Obama was doing in 1996? I ask, because right now he is vacationing although his Senate committee has still not held a single hearing. Until now the reason was that he didn’t have time for it, what with campaigning and all. Now he doesn’t have time because he’s vacationing? I suppose we should at least be grateful he’s not cutting brush in Texas.
What does this man have to recommend him? Strength of character is definitely not on the list.
“Age 35
November
Elected to the Illinois Senate
Did not face a Republican opposition”
oh yeah, he was campaigning all year.
This was the year Rezko donated “between $10,000 and $15,000 for Obama’s first election, in 1996, to the Illinois Senate”
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/844455,CST-NWS-obama15.article
Nice try to change the subject. Hillary gets caught telling a 4-pinnochio lie, and all you can do is whine about Obama’s well-deserved break? Clearly, Hillary’s the one who lacks character. Any other candidate in her position would have dropped out by now. But not Hillary — she’s entitled to be President.
“But not Hillary — she’s entitled to be President.”
Can you express yourself without a meme here?
You even plagarize WaPo comments like “4-pinnochio lie”…goddamn folks think for your fucking selves instead of having Kos and Obama Talking Points as your cannon.
If she lacks character then why is she still standing up after all the years of attacks on her? Obama gets criticism because he wants to be President, and you have the audacity to say…she feels entitled? She’s working her ass off. She didn’t give up because people like me said, DON’T YOU DARE GIVE UP ON US.
You lack character because you see your hatred for her but don’t realize she represents US, those of us who voted for her, who almost didn’t get a chance to vote for her, those of us who didn’t get a chance to vote for John Edwards, Dennis Kucinich, or whever we wanted.
You lack character because you want Obama to be crowned the fucking king when he hasn’t won the total delegates necessary.
You lack character because instead of having a substantive take on the issue (whats my fucking word count now) you have to engage in meme spills that make you almost indistinguishable from the other obama supporters who simply want to win…and you say she feels Entitled?
I don’t whine about “Obama’s well-deserved break”, my own representative is on Spring Break too, god damn pay attention…but I will hold him in contempt when you see him lounging in St. Thomas while the people up and down the street from me are struggling to put gas in their tanks, food on their tables and keep their dignity up while our economy crashes.
His disposition and that of Mrs. Obama is no different than the French Royalty circa 1789..and we know how that turned out. Its nice to see him be lauded by Jeremiah Wright as, “HE’S NOT RICH”, yet he is rich compared to most of the people I know. “He’s NOT RICH” But he is compared to the average income of americans after the first 1000 wealthiest are removed from blowing the bell curve.
Viola, I don’t speek in memes, are you going to say I have no character too?
Character….what the hell would you know about character writing like you do?
What is your opinion without having the WaPo 4 pinnochios telling you what to think? When were you in Bosnia? And when did your memory become perfect? I bet you all I have that I could make your memory flub up too if I asked you questions about events, even significant ones from 12 years ago.
I forgive you for your trespass and your dismissive smirk, but you’re acting like a fucking parrot right now, SQUAWK and you can do better than that.
enough with the memes.
March 2007
Except he wasn’t a Constitutional Law Professor. He was a senior lecturer. Not a professor. There’s a difference and he knew it. Does that mean, gasp, that Senator Obama lacks character? Or is this just another instance of what’s sauce for the goose is excusable for the gander?
Thank you. It’s unbelievable that this is even an issue. While Hillary was flying into war zones what was Obama doing? Cozying up to his minister/mentor trying to find his identity so he could run for political office in Chicago?
It’s an issue because Hillary made up a story about being shot at, and broadcast it to the whole world. That’s what happens when politicians make things up, and get caught.
Do you realize how pathetic you are with this?
Go on, please keep at it that will take you far.
In the meantime, a great majority of the American people will focus on Obama’s disgraceful association with Jeremiah Wright for all of his adult life.
And Tony Rezko, and (there is more; sit tight Will).
I actually had no idea, she had toured a peacekeeping operation like that. She’s standing outside too. When Bush went to Baghdad he was in a mass hall with a rubber turkey.
So in around about way, it’s nice to see she cared enough to visit the deployed troops. It’s a shame that the press are running with this garbage.
Has anyone on here done a tour of an active peacekeeing base while a civilian? I thought not.
If it was so dangerous to be there, then why did she bring Chelsea along? Was she endangering her daughter too?
Face it. Hillary’s a liar with a weak record and little earned experience. Being the wife of the President doesn’t count, especially when she thoroughly botched the only significant task she was given — bringing about universal health care.
I’m not the one making up stories about how I got shot at.
Will, someone is looking for you at your site.
Hey, Andy, I’ll give it to you–you got me yesterday!
She’s not making up anything.
Although if you were ever shot at and it missed, you would hear something like a bee and if it passed by your face you’d feel a funny tingling warm sensation on your cheek. If it got real close it’s like being next to an element.
If you wish to belittle an effort to visit troops to see conditions on the ground and have her place heself in danger (standing arond in forward base in Bosnia without armour or a pisspot counts well enough) then go ahead and be a cad. Your natural level of gallantry exposed for all to see.
Salo - “she’s not making anything up”???
“I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”
–Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008.
Anyway, doesn’t matter… you folks aren’t going to concede the reality of the situation anyway.
It doesn’t matter, Kevin. Didn’t you hear that WWI started in Bosnia? I mean, gosh, who but only the bravest First Lady in the universe would be tough enough to go there?
What’s more ridiculous: the story Hillary made up about being shot at, or her claim that it was administration policy to send the First Lady to locations that were too dangerous for the president?
It’s an odd week when the most rational statement is coming from Sinbad:
“What kind of president would say, ‘Hey, man, I can’t go ’cause I might get shot so I’m going to send my wife…oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you.’”
It’s no small thing. I didn’t even know she had done a tour like that. It was a pleasant surprise to find she actually took the time to visit the benighted sodden place.
I’d have avoided the dump like the plague. Troops or not. Photo op or not.
who is you folks? I think she’ll probably lose the primary. I’ve thought so since the day after supertuesday.
Speak for yourself. I don’t particularly care a whit if she said she thought she was iunder the threat of fire or under fire.
Obama’s a world class dissembler in his own right. He’s doing badly enough for himself already and the press are ready to turn on his skinny arse.
“the press are ready to turn on his skinny arse.”
Anyone who has followed the news the last three weeks knows they already have.
not yet. They have plenty left over.
As this site has been pointing out for a few months.
OK, then why hasn’t anyone else corroborated that there was actual sniper fire?
Will,
Based on comments here I may be one of the very few people here who remembers Kosovo and Bosnia. I watched it on TV news for years. There was always sniper fire and suspected snipers in the hills all over that area during that time. Even after the cease fire.
I remember one heart-breaking story of a man and his son shopping for food on a Saturday morning when they were shot at They were trapped for hours. A TV crew caught it all on tape.
It was a very dangerous place.
So Hillary’s story sounds about right, the video and news accounts in this story confirm that.
Only Obamabots could take a story of the First Lady and her daughter going into a war zone to show support and thank the troops who serve US and make it appear tacky.
[expletive deleted] to all Obamabots for this. Shame on you.
It’s the first truly rovian attack i’ve seen. It’s also truly destructive to Democratic success stories like Bosnia and Kosovo. I’m a bit pissed off about this.
What kind of crazy lady brings her daughter into a “very dangerous place”? Oh, right. Hillary.
No, you only make up stories in regard to Obama’s pseudo heroics, pseudo hysterics and pseudo achievements.
Yawn.
yeah yeah yeah…
Poor thing.
Now she’s making up stories? If she’s not allowed to misspeak, then neither is Obama. After NAFTA, Iraq, and Wright, tell me who’s the great story teller of them all?
So let me see if I’m tracking your reasoning Andy.
This is what Hillary said - repeatedly, as way of pointing out how she’d be “tested under fire” and was ready to be Commander in Chief (and don’t waste time trying to divert attention by focusing on my phrasing)
“I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”
–Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008.
Now… you want to say that she didn’t lie, and that this is a non-issue???
Then you want to start talking about personal associations (rather than addressing the topic at hand). Okay fine, as if the GOP is ready to drop a ton of questionable contacts and activities on her? Please… ROFLMAO
Kevin: this is your reasoning.
Clearly, you are obviously not tracking my reasoning. In addition, your ranting doesn’t even have any logic to it. But that’s okay, I understand everyone has its limitations.
“But that’s okay, I understand everyone has its limitations”
LOL, evidently my friend. Evidently…
Glad you accept it Kevin. That’s always a good start. Keep on playing.
you missed my point, but that’s okay
For the life of me, for 3 threads now you have not made one to miss.
And if you can’t your point there is zero reason to be a condesending igit.
Your “point” must not have been that important Kevein or one would think it would NOT be ok.
This is like Gore’s FEMA lie.
Inconsequential.
Gore’s FEMA “lie” was hardly “inconsequential”. That statement, along w/a few others, cost him several crucial weeks of terrible press in the fall of 2000, and defined him–unfairly–as a pathological liar in the MSM.
You’re a troll. No politician can keep their artful dissembling straight all the time.
It’s an inconsequential discrepancy and can be explained that she landed under the threat of fire.
Now of course, she’s no innocent here, she buried Kerry in 2006 when he made a crack about getting stuck in Iraq–He clearly meant that that dumb bastard Bush had been a cstudent and had gotten us stuck in Iraq–so she’s getting some comeupance for her own ruthlessness when she damaged Kerry’s clunky joke.
However, a tour of the field in Bosnia is a credit to her. Obama will be laughed at mercilessly if he’s touring the field now.
“It’s an inconsequential discrepancy and can be explained that she landed under the threat of fire.”
So how is it like Gore’s “lie”, which burned him irretrievably?
Look. This is swiftboating the main accomplishemnt of the Clinton yeahs. They settled the Yugoslavian question.
Gore was hurt by a press corps that was hell bent on selecting Bush.
They knew it was all bullshit, just as youknow this is rubbish.
Bosnia was dangerous enough at the time to be woried about a head of state doing a tour of American FOBs.
Salo said: “Gore was hurt by a press corps that was hell bent on selecting Bush.”
You have a strange vision of recent electoral history.
Gore could have yawned and he would have received weeks of bad press for it. Twisting and mocking a minor misstatement by a press that abhors real democracy and insists on picking its favorite nominee is not the fault of the candidate, but the fault of the press and those who cheer the press on, instead of demanding that the press report facts and remain balanced.
Some are BUTTERFLYS..
…Some Are MOTHS….
tracking your reasoning
Kevin, I posted this for you before but has not sunk in apparently.
Did you see how CLOSE everyone was to the bunker in the video clips? You know that large structure with sand bags and gun slots?
Did you notice how some service members were facing out?
Have you ever done a corkscrew landing? Ever have to hard Crab one over a “runway” on approach?
From personal experience, I can tell you it is not a good thing to have any gun pointed at you or be told you may get shot at.
And when a captain tells you to get in the cockpit ’cause it is “bullet proof”, you do what you are told.
So while you are stuck on word semantics those people in that party were told to stay frosty. Got it?
The Obvious Impression I am getting out of
all this BOSNIA Nonsense..is that this is a
ROVIAN TYPE TACTIC..by The OBAMA CAMPAIGN MACHINE..
Strategy..?? Send OBAMA of of the USA..for a Undeserved rest on taxpayer Time..& Dollar..since he is a GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE.
Who ISSUES His Checks..??
So..Get him out of here..For POLITICAL REASONS…In the Hope the PESTOR WRIGHT
Issue will Die down..No Press conferences..
Then..Create a MINOR NON EVENT ISSUE like Hillary in Bosnia..Feed it to the media..demand some equal time..Get some Play..and hope the Pestor rong issue will go away when Obama gets Back..tanned and rested..
Thew POINT Is…BOTH Hillary and Chelse went into a COMBAST WAR Zone..brought some entertainment for the Troops..Went up to the front Lines..With TROOPS on Combat Status..Whwere..she indeed potentially could have been a TARGET..
The Point is..Hillary has traveled into so many TROUBLE Spots in the World…She may have had an incident going into a hOT zone..where there was gunfire..and extra Security measures were necessary..That IS Possible that .She has that Incident confused with BOSNIA..Has anyone thought of that..??
The POINT is..”SHE” was… THERE ..She EARNED My RESPECT..Leadership & CIC Qualified all the Way..
Did I see Laura Bush in a Combat Zone..Did I see the Bush Kids.. ??..
Funny…since Daddy is such a WAR Monger..You would think they would at least
they would visit Field hospitals like hillary..or VA Hospitals here at Home,..be More PUBLIC..More ACTIVE..Red Cross or something..
You wont find any Elanors or Hillarys in the Republican camp..They send other people and other peoples kids for the Dirty work..
KEVIN…WILL.. Tell us about all your Combat Experiences..Tell us about Obamas Combat Experiences..How many Field Hospitals He has been too..How many Service men and Women He has Thanked..or Gotten benefits for..??
OH..I Forgot..He Doesn’t have Time..To Pass Legislation..Hold any hearings..Travel to trouble Spots in the WORLD..
Your PEOPLES HERO..is too Busy Running for Office..Doing Real estate deals..or going to “CHURCH”..to Hear PESTOR Wright preach
Hate..and Racism..and teach it to Obamas kids too..
Kevin..Will..I’ll bet you get out of bed every moring in this war Torn country of ours..Hope the or UN has sent you some Food..Hope Today is the day you and your faamily don’t get blow up by asuicide bombers at the Market..
Kevin,..Will..Freepers..
I’ll bet you get up every day of your Poor MISERABLE American Lifes and Say..
“GOD DAMN THE UNITED STATES”
Kevin..
I made he ROVIAN Comment..
Talk about Exxagerating Comments..Just go back to the BAMA BUNKER..sniper..and drink more Kool` Aid..You are running Low..
do you know what KEVIN means in Hungarian.??
What does Kevin mean in Hungarian?
what is kevin in hungarian ???
.
…………..ELMEBAJOS…………..
Give it a rest. The fact remains she exaggerated the situation to play up how she’d faced danger and was ready to be commander in chief. PERIOD. She later embellished the story again to play up the danger. PERIOD.
Now she’s been forced to backtrack and say she mispoke.
Just accept it for what it is.
As for Teak’s follow on statement that this is part of a Rovian tactic…. um please, shall we compare the actions and statements of both campaigns? Saying that there are at least 2 patriotic americans running… (Hill and McCain); Saying that either McCain or Hillary (but obviously not Obama) was ready to be commander in chief…
KEVIN..
Did YOU Hear Him Say HILLARY & McCAIN..??
Where is that Video..Did I miss it..??
Speaking of MIS~SPEAK..You must have a Masters Degree in it..
What’s that story that it was too dangerous for Pres. Clinton to go to Tuzla, so he sent his wife and daughter?
That’s hard to believe…
dooner, thats because you ignored the opening comment, “we used to joke that…” which means you don’t take the comments afterwards as literal and serious.
And the joke was based on the fact (AS NOTED BY THE CBS CLIP ABOVE) that Hillary went farther into dangerous territory in this trip than President Clinton went it…care to watch the CBS CLIP UP THERE? or will you now conveniently dismiss CBS when it says.
The side column says:
“This report by Sharyl Attkisson makes NO MENTION OF THE DANGEROUS CONDITIONS.”
but in the report (bolds are my emphasis)
“She and her daughter Chelsea toured the FRONTLINE outpost”
“Officers say this is ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACES where US Forces are operating. THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF NEVER MADE THIS FAR INSIDE BOSNIA when he visited in January.”
“separates Serbs from Muslims in a place SURROUNDED BY MINES”
soldier: “thats about 10 to 15 Thousand Mine Fields”
“but she organized this trip herself”
Nice try sport - two completely different instances, but since you’re feigning ignorance of the facts - then we’ll just let that slip… like your response re: Rovian…
Could you put that in more coherent English please… I gave up talking Bush-speak long ago. LOL
Obama is NOT ready to be commander in chief of ANYTHING.
That is based on facts and evidenced by his utter contempt and complete lack of knowledge of the military. He got punk-ed in the worst way by McPeak and he does no it, even now…
I don’t want Obama anywhere near the football. He has ZIP knowledge o f military affairs. He is even clueless on Constitutional Law, which is surprising given his education at Harvard.
As for Teak’s follow on statement that this is part of a Rovian tactic….
Now I am laughing AT you…that is funny. This little ol’ kite makes Rovian statements? Should I be flattered? “What’s the matter you don’t like brown people?”..that is a statement by Rove. Then again, I am not a seditious traitor like Rove, so *uck you very much!!
my what an ego. I didn’t say you made rovian comments, do you even retain memory of the statements you make… forget the fact that you can actually read the thread, follow your statement and then my or any responses before you start ranting again?
ehem…kevin, you might want to check that ego of yours at the door before pointing out egos. it takes an ego to know an ego.
sincerely,
my ego
.
…….ELMEBETEG………….
….WORD SEMANTICS..KEVIN & ELMEBAJOS…
Kevin..I saw you in a video here..You were the Hedge Hog that Took the Deepest Snort of the Obama Sponge..Went crazy..
Its the New ECSTACY..for you old Crack Sniffers..any Excuse for a New HIGH…
The Only CRABS Kevin knows about are
STONE CRABS..Thats Why He walks Sideways..
See this is the fucking problem:
“Hillary made up a story about being shot at”
No, YOU MADE THAT STORY UP, because you cannot fathom the concept of Fair Witness.
Show me one example, just one where she said, “i was being shot at”.
You can’t, because she never said that.
It is the highest form of hypocrisy to call her an exaggerator when you are engaged in a whopper of hyperbole yourself.
How can you hold her, Obama, or others accountable if you exaggerate about the exaggerations. I mean, give me a fucking break here…do you have any sense of credibility when you tell her, “you better be spot on with your account” but then can distort her account to go from “landed under sniper fire” to “Hillary made up a story about being shot at”?
I don’t have the time right this moment to search all the examples I’ve read in the last few days of over the top hyperbole, but if her story last Monday was bullshit, people like you are guilty of even more bullshit than she is.
HYPERBOLE is your problem too
You have to understand the mind of the rovian obmabots.
See, they can turn, paraphrasing, “Obama’s anti war position is a fairy tale” into a ranting racist attack by Bill Clinton on Senator Elmer Gantry. It is a scary place, inside that twisted mind devoid of rational thought.
oh I do Newport, but thanks for covering my back.
Yes, the 8 years of dealing with Bushies had taught me well what its like to argue with the mindnumbing bots. Let us not forget there are still about 28% of Americans who refuse to see Traitor Bush and Traitor Cheney for what they are.
Right on to the comments above!
And would someone please tell Sinbad that ONE big reason he was so safe was because of the extremely effective protection he received from the U.S. military as well as the U.S. Secret Service.
Jesus.
Susan:
You didn’t have any trouble finding the facts concerning this non-issue, and you didn’t have to go to any sources that could be labled as “pro-Hillary”. If you and Hillary’s campaign could easily source the facts, then the Obama campaign could have done so as well, but misrepresentation is hardwired into their soul, as far as Hillary is concerned, and this issue, when viewed objectively, only reinforces Hillary’s claims of experience, and demonstrates the threadbare record of same for Obama. Hey Barack, at least she made trrips to Europe other than a stopover on the way back from a vacation. At least she is focussed on her campaign and the American people, and is not lounging in a cabana in the Caribbean, reading the labels on tubes of sun block (perhaps practicing for a windsurfing competition with Kerry).
Their entire campaign is now about hitting Hillary below the belt.
“Hope” and “change” are so yesterday.
The press have it in for her. That’s what it is about. There she is doing a tour of a combat zone (Peace keeping) and she’s getting whaled on for it. I’d have declined a visit (thanks very much, but the serbs were a thuggish lot) if wasn’t in the armed forces.
Exactly, you’d think they would pick up on it by now, but they don’t.
Again, Obama’s team is the hamas of the information wars, I guess that’s what happens when you get all that second and third rate talent, everyone else’s loser rejects.
Critical thinking skills, and such, why templates don’t work, you know….
BTW, in viewing this issue, it would appear Clinton didn’t misspeak, at all.
She actually highlighted the danger she was in, her courage in traveling to that godforsaken, wartorn land. If she’s going to send you, son, she’ll go, too, and take her KID with her, none of this war is for the poor people BS.
Same with her travels to Iraq, as a senator…
Double pow!
Rob, the FACTHUB link from the original post *is* a site run by the HRC campaign. I’d say that qualifies as “pro Hillary”.
And personally, were I in damage control mode, I wouldn’t use Wikipedia. An open source database constantly under fire for legitimacy.
I don’t disagree, but I also don’t stop at the Hillary Hub or Wiki. I use their sources and go a spot further or ten spots further.
Example:
When BoringYorke of the National Review would smear Plame based on Sen. Kit Bond’s account of the 2002 Senate Intel report, I did my research…not in the papers, but on the phone with the Senate Intel Committee. I read all 536 pages of the report. I then asked the committee who authored the wording itself, and what accounts were taken.
Some of these facts weren’t even available when I called, but over time I did get the info.
So yes, sourcing is the most important part of journalism. But then there is the meme war. These guys who smear Hillary Clinton’s story point to Huffington Pissed who point to a WaPo blog saying “from a reporter who was there”, but the reporter they point to, wasn’t there…he points to someone who might have been there…etc etc.
Then when I continue to suspend believe in any category, I get called a Clinton apologist (not by you, but just saying).
I was told for years that the Clintons were guilty of Whitewater fraud, cattlegate fraud, filegate fraud, travelgate fraud, murding Vince Foster and Ron Brown…i mean, fuck…after a while wouldn’t you finally get immune to the smears too? All that money invested in investigating and NADA, NUNCA, NOTHING…
I looked at this story and said, hey…CBS has a video, Good, but then so many have concluded, improperly in my logical reasoning, that the tape shows the truth…well, no it doesn’t…it shows A TRUTH, not THE TRUTH. And if readers can’t make that distinction, then they aren’t interested in THE TRUTH, but A RELATIVE TRUTH.
I’m interested in knowing what happened as factually close to the event as possible. I’d like to know if the pilot did get orders for evasive flying, if the instructions or comments told to HRC were implying or explicitely stating they were under sniper fire in the region.
Ever been on a C17?
Can you hear sniper fire while in one?
But if someone tells you, as the first hand accounts are saying (and being discounted by those who don’t care for first hand but whatever feeds their convictions) that there were reports of sniper fire.
CNN just had a hack host interview a Clinton supporter and she asked questions on this…all questions were leading, all responses were direct and then she wouldn’t have it. She HAD TO MAKE SURE CLINTON WAS A LIAR. That is her fucking conviction and the guest isn’t necessary except to bolster her Necessary Illusion. This is quack journalism and anyone with any journalistic ethic would see it.
It hurts the citizens of this country and others when they are being spoon fed this garbage about either candidate, about any candidate.
I’ve watched 60 minutes ask a guy, “so you support Obama”, “er, yeah I do, but I have my reservations”, “what are those”, “well he’s a muslim. he swore in on a muslim quran”.
Now that reporter corrected him on that. But I’ve had to even go further to show how people are mistaking Keith Ellison with Barack Hussein Obama. I was quick to make the distinction and the guy said, “oh yeah…the Jefferson quran right?”, “exactly”
But ultimately its up to you to have some integrity in the process. Don’t put your foot on unstable ground and you won’t fall.
And for the record, I personally am not in “damage control mode”, and neither is Susan. If you wish to say that to the Clinton campaign, then contact them.
I know that I’m familiar enough with how accounts change and distort not to go gung-ho for someones head when the facts fit my themes. It takes self control to do so.
The poster of this video states in his discription of it:
Hillary Clinton’s 1996 trip to Bosnia is at the center of a dispute over her statements that her plane came under sniper fire. This report by Sharyl Attkisson makes no mention of dangerous conditions.
Here was my responce:
WTF - The poster of this video says there is no mention of danger. All I see are guns and soldiers wearing body armor. Did you even watch your own video? What do these words mean?
“This is one of the most dangerous places where US forces are operating. The President himself never made it this far inside Bosnia when he visited in January. Camp Elisha is in a so called zone of separation southeast of Tulsa. It’s a place where dangerous conflicts are more likely.”
—– Pretty funny how the Obama koolaid drinkers think this video diminishes Hillary.
“This report by Sharyl Attkisson makes no mention of dangerous conditions.”
Because it is self-evident.
john d, what is self-evident?
Nothing is…only that it doesn’t show her running from the plane to the car.
I’d be ashamed of our troops probably if they scheduled such an event and didn’t clear the perimeter. Have you no sense of the whole of things, or do you just live stuck to the screen?
It was a 20 minute plan, and you’ve seen less than 1 minute. Evident?
Don’t make me pull some propaganda prestidigitation on you. I can convince you of many things by merging audio and video.
I have tapes of George Bush cussing his own mother out that I made by fusing his voice from speeches and they are quite convincing. Fun and Luck go a long way.
But also because you don’t see outside the camera angles, before the camera was on, the conversation in the cockpit, the departure, or other events around this, you make solid conclusions that actually only bolstered already existing beliefs. This isn’t uncommon and has been well written about.
The fact that you trust your eyes so much is actually a great strategic weakness for your thinking. I don’t care if you get it, but it would be nice to know you reconsider your own eyes and ears.
Wasn’t that the stupidest comment by the person who posted the video? Lordy.
I was bemused by the intrepid reporter’s who have been passing judgement on this video.
I was thinking hullo, they’ve all got their pisspots on, Minimis and M16s up the khyber and are resplendent in body armour.
I noticed a sandbagged watchtower with a peevish trooper looking out into the distance too. He’d have liked to have been in warm bed at home with with his girlfriend, I Imagine, or boozing in a saloon.
I know i’d not have wanted to be stationed on that gloomy Balkan field with a bunch of Serbian nationalists camped over the next hill.
It does. That’s just a fact. The video wouldn’t be plastered all over the nightly news otherwise.
The video that is being used is her at the airport. It’s a different video.
I’d say she was brave enough.
And the anchor for CBS explicitly states this was the FRONT LINE. But that doesn’t fit the meme, ignore it..tune it out.
IGNORANCE.
I think this video speaks for itself.
I was beginning to feel a bit down about HRC misspeaking. But this goes a long way toward making me feel better. Please everyone, send it around.
But let’s play a game. Remember the PBS kids educational show Where in the World is Carmen San Diego? Let’s play this game by asking Where in the World has Barack Obama traveled to?
Actually, it won’t be such a fun game since he’s been NOWHERE! But we could juxtapose that to ALL the places Hillary’s been and that would be fun.
MIMI;
Obama telling overt lies is not even close to being compared with recalling an 18 year old memory while living on 4 hours of sleep a night.
The small bit she has forgotten is a great deal more than Senator Obama currently knows.
Why the news black out for the trip to VI?
mimi -
Kenya - meddling in election involving cousin who hoped to put women in veils, which nearly ended in genocide
Somalia - put on dress and hat
Virgin Islands - vacationed to avoid embarassing hate whites, Jews, gays and U.S. sermons by Rev. Wright or Rev. Moss on Easter
Jakarta, Indonesia - early childhood: slow learner/religious preference = Muslim
Oh and somebody tell Sinbad that the ONLY reason this is important to him is that he, like all the AA sheeple, are supporting Obama. If this was something that might discredit Obama, he whouldn’t even mention it.
[...] about the U.S. occupation of Iraq have a measurable ???emboldenment effectmakethemaccountable.comHillary and Bosnia 1996 Clinton Bosnia Trip CBS News: This not only shows that the trip had its hazards more on that [...]
Mimi:
There is no reason for you to feel down at all! Come on. This is their game; pick on every non-issue and try
hard to undermine her. Do not fall for this.
What is she mis-spoke? What do they want; her to have any scars to show as well? Give me a f**** break.
Thye are trying hard to change the subject and start a fire in an ocean. It won’t catch.
By the way: I didn’t know Sheryl Crow was there as well (with Sinbad?). If so why doesn’t the media ask her Sheryl Crow besides Sinbad ? Who does she support? Does anyone know?.
On CNN last night, on a panel filled with Hillary Sneerers, Joe Klein piped up that he had actually spoken today to someone who was on that plane with Hillary, and that person confirmed that they were told the plane was going to have to do evasive action while landing because of sniper fire.
Which show?
Mimi:
There is no reason for you to feel down at all! Come on. This is their game; pick on every non-issue and try
hard to undermine her. Do not fall for this.
What if she mis-spoke? What’s the big deal? What do they want? her to have scars to show as well?
Give me a f**** break.
It is nothing but they making noise. They are trying hard to change the subject and start a fire inside an ocean. It won’t catch.
Mimi: HRC is not perfect: none of us are. But she has what it takes, what is needed and what it really counts to be President.
By the way: I didn’t know Sheryl Crow was there as well (with Sinbad?). If so why doesn’t the media ask her Sheryl Crow besides Sinbad ? Who does she support? Does anyone know?.
What’s amazing about all of their efforts to discredit her foreign policy skills is that HE HAS ABSOLUTELY NONE!! He has to tear her down to distract from the fact that he is woefully unqualified. What a farce. And what’s with Anderson bringing up Ireland AGAIN?! Didn’t confirmation of her importance in the process from none other than: Gerry Adams, Nobel winner John Hume, Prime Minister Ahern, and former Senator George Mitchell put that lie to bed? Jesus. This whole primary has become absurd. Obama’s rock concerts are not enough to evade his questionable background and judgment or his thin resume any longer.
Per Jerelyn at Talk Left, please sign the petition to seat the Florida and Michigan delegates. It is to be hand delivered to Howard Dean.
My apologies for going off topic.
And please pass this on and post it everywhere.
Done !! Thank you chris c for letting us know.
As long as we are off-topic….
I know you’ve heard about Detroit’s Mayor, Kwame Kilpatrick, being charged with various crimes, but did you know he is one of Michigan’s 26 superdelegates?
I am registered inde; can I sign? It said dems.
Depends on the laws in your state, but I can because I’ve been bridled and caught by the Democrats this year…goddamn primaries!
I have some support to sue the state to over turn that election law, but the Supreme court already upheld it once in 1972 or so, so we may just pressure Texas to change the code…Which can’t happen until they are back in session…after November.
Oh come on. Hillary downright lied. She never faced sniper fire. Of course there were sharpshooters protecting her. They’d have sharpshooters protecting a First Lady (and a First Child) anywhere.
Do you honestly think that the White House would have sent a First Lady and Child into a genuine danger zone?
I came to this website because I am sick and tired of Obama-mania.
Hillary-mania is no better.
Bosnia is where Franz Ferdinanad was assassinated. I’d have politely refused an invitation to joint the tour.
JSilverheels,
Why don’t you read her recent statement and what’s she wrote in her book? But if you don’t want to; that’s okay as well since this, this is really a non-issue.
Next.
I’m with you.
Prepare for the onslaught from the rest…
JSilver,
I appreciate a cynical eye…but take a look again at this CBS video at the top and realize you haven’t seen all the ‘landings’ she did, just the already landed plane and that she wasn’t running out the back.
But did you pay attention to the comments of the reporter?
You say: “Do you honestly think that the White House would have sent a First Lady and Child into a genuine danger zone?”
Sharyl Attkisson: “She and her daughter Chelsea toured the FRONTLINE outpost”
Sharyl Attkisson: “Officers say this is ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACES where US Forces are operating. THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF NEVER MADE THIS FAR INSIDE BOSNIA when he visited in January.”
Sharyl Attkisson: “separates Serbs from Muslims in a place SURROUNDED BY MINES”
unnamed soldier: “thats about 10 to 15 Thousand Mine Fields”
“but she organized this trip herself”
The grand drive to make her a liar over this is shameless and in some cases completely self-serving.
What other raw footage will surface from CBS or others?
And have you any sense of the shameless bias in smearing from these outlets that haven’t aired this other footage featuring Sharyl Attkisson’s comments or that the CBS Youtube page dares to say “Sharyl Attkisson doesn’t mention any dangers!”
sorry you think i’m stupid, but I’m not.
PS I do not agree that this is a non-issue. Hillary has been telling this story on the stump for months; it has apparently become progressively more florid & detailed as time went on.
The thing I dislike about Hillary is her contempt for the basic intelligence of her audience. This is a perfect example of it. Over and out, Hillary. I’m ready for a third party candidate.
I believe you’re making things up.. that’s “lying” in the vernacular.
Hillary told this story ONCE before, that I read about. So what?
She’s a total bitch for touring a forward opeating base in Bosnia. OBVIOUSLY. What a floozy.
Christ almighty!
Such as? Nader ? LOL
Well, she didn’t tell it when I saw in Maine and she didn’t tell it on every speech that I watched on C-Span. So, are you a “serial liar”?
From Hillary’s book:
So… McCain’s a laughingstock for saying that Baghdad was safe. Little did we know then that he would have been ridiculed even MORE had he said it was dangerous.
I mean, it’s not like anyone shot at him. Dangerous? No way!
It’s quite bizarre. If McCain had come under fire there, i’d have howled in (even more) laughter at his protestations that Baghdad was secure.
Yet she’s getting attacked for going into what looks very much like a front line base in Bosnia.
Karma will be a bitch for the press for going on about this.
With a frakin party on his flanks and air support to boot? Shirin mentioned the gentleman he purchased his 5 dollars bargin rug was murdered very shortly after that… and nery a mention from McCain about it. Piss ant.
Nope:
“Clinton has been telling the story of her visit to Bosnia in 1996 for many years, gradually adding embellishment and changing details. Perhaps she may have actually come to believe it.”
http://www.newsweek.com/id/128977
Terrific Newsweek piece–thanks.
Ah, the untalented and mediocre supporting the untalented and mediocre.
Hey, guess why this aspect of American culture is failing?
Yesterday, I was driving down the 405, 90+ degree heat outside. Somewhere, they had just put down a LOAD of fresh fertilizer. Ever smell that, in stifling heat?
Smells just like an Axelrod troll, and camp Obama.
Just close the f’ing window, and soon, it’s all gone.
Did you know that Mark**s was a Newsweek guy? That’s about how much I trust them and their stories. MSM and so-called A-list bloggers are equal opportunity fantasy and hate mongers.
This is laughable
Newsweek
“she told a richly detailed anecdote as part of a major address on foreign policy”
Richly detailed? Fuck I transcribed the 1:35 length of the anecdote in almost the amount of time she spoke it. I don’t know where you come from but it wasn’t “Richly Detailed”
Newsweek
“in December, Clinton reportedly asserted that the area was considered too dangerous for her husband to visit”
Funny the video clip above shows Sharyl Attkisson saying
“She and her daughter Chelsea toured the FRONTLINE outpost”
“Officers say this is ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACES where US Forces are operating. THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF NEVER MADE THIS FAR INSIDE BOSNIA when he visited in January.”
This was the source of their joke. She stated “we used to joke”…but did Newsweek (focused on selling issues) or the TV shows (focused on rating) emphasise it was a joke? nah…that wouldn’t be viable.
Newsweek
“Clinton’s conjured combat memories”
The constant accusation that she made it up has never taken an ounce to consider fused memories over a decade later. And I’m very happy for you and other if you’ve never had this happen, but I, for one, have had a ton of great and powerful experiences that later in recall fused together accidentally because I don’t sit around and organize my memories for any purpose. Only upon retelling them do certain facts seem odd when said anachronistically.
My wife points out that I’ve done that a few times as I’ve gotten older because she’s worried that my memory is getting bad. I tell her, no, its just that I have more and more memories and as time goes on life is getting more and more interesting.
The rush to get Clinton shows more to me about the people doing it than of her. And if you are so tired of mindless Obamatons and mindless (not sure what the Clinton version is) Clintonatons?…then why throw out your critical thinking and accept this as a “lie” (the intentional misrepresentation of facts) instead of a mistaken memory? Because critical thinking goes away when certain aims are satisified, thats why…maybe not for you, but for the screaming HuffingtonKossaks.
Obama Rules:
My Grannie who raised me is as big a racist as The Rev. Wright”
Oops, people don’t like when I attack Grandma, I take it back. Doesn’t count.
“I didn’t know my mentor/ preacher was a racist”
Oops, well, maybe I kinda knew. Doesn’t count.
“I only met my main political benefactor for a few minutes. Didn’t know him. He only gave me $60,000. No, $150,000. No, $250,000…”
Well, maybe I was wrong about that. Doesn’t count.
“Rezko, is a crook?” Didn’t know that. Doesn’t count.
“Never heard of the Weathermen. I’m not as OLD as Hillary.”
Doesn’t count.
“I do not take money from Lobbyists”
Well, at least I hide it, so you don’t know. Doesn’t count.
“My campaign did not either conjtact the canadian Embassy with NAFTA promises”. Well, it they did they idn’t say that. Well, it they did say that, they misspoke.”
Doesn’t count.
My wife earned her new position and doubling of her salary. It had nothing to do with money I sent I got allocated for her employer. No one pays attention, so it doesn’t count.
My wife would never use her position on a board to secure zoning changes for my new house. No one in MSM pays attention, so it doesn’t count.
Oh my GOD, after you start, it goies on forever. He lies so much no one could possibly report on any of it. None of it counts. My head hurts.
But…
Hillary said she was under sniper fire, but she really was under threat of sniper fire. LIAR.
That’s good apishapa !
Y’all might enjoy the following satire from another blogger:
“The Clinton Rules - The Obama Rules”
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/012147.php
That’s all she has to do really. Threat of fire is as good as actual fire gven a visit from a proxy head of state.
“Threat of fire is as good as actual fire gven a visit from a proxy head of state.”
Not if the bullets hit someone.
Is that what you want to happen? The magic Bullet? Go talk to Arlen Spector about it.
Have you ever been the military Will?
I have not had the honor to do so.
So our men and women serving in Iraq come back with PTSD from from every day they are there, under the “Threat of fire”. This threat can wear on you worse than being shot at.
Would you kindly think before you insult yourself?
my gawd… what are you thinking? first of all, yes - people who don’t come directly under fire but who are threatened by it or feel as if they are can and do come back w/ PSTD.
Better still wtf does that have to do with the issue or the comments made?
I swear, the more I read some of the comments and opinions stated here by Hillary supporters and elsewhere by Obama supporters - I wonder if we deserve to win. I hear the exact same mindless… lock-step pandering and denial of reality and begging the question from both that we all have been deriding the GOP for years over.
Just confirms my feelings from long ago that both parties are merely opposite sides of the same flawed coin.
sick punk.
Guys:
Let’s move on to more important things, shall we? This is so much to do about nothing. Background noise.
Please pay attention to “chris c” post above re. the petition. That it is important.
This IS important. Saying that Obama is unqualified for President and unfit for office doesn’t make Hillary qualified or fit.
This whole thing is really insane. She wants us to believe that she would take her own child into an active war zone?
It makes zero sense on a rational level. The fact is, she could have told the truth - that Pres. Clinton helped to pacify the situation (with her advice and counsel, of course) and she went there to celebrate a foreign policy triumph.
This is what comes of dumbing down your candidacy for too long.
This is lowest common denominator stuff.
Dead on, JSilverheels.
Good article:
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/dan_kennedy/2008/03/clinton_under_fire.html
“Clinton did more than misspeak; she told a richly detailed anecdote as part of a major address on foreign policy. And it was not the first time she has mentioned the snipers. In fact, the seeds of the Bosnian peril myth may have been planted years ago.”
How was your tour of Bosnia?
Or Iraq for that matter?
are you really going to descend to that level?
She’s being attacked for some purple prose about a tour of a forward operating base!
Who’s decending where?
I’d never have accepted the invite to tour that hell hole.
get a grip - “some purple prose” ummmm, if she’d done it once, you might get away with that - but it was a story she repeated, then embellished more before trying to then backtrack. But I digress.
My comment to you was that you were dropping to the jr high argument level w/ your “when was the last time you did a tour” comment - which you know. C’mon - be honest in your arguments at least…
this is swiftboating. Here’s a signal accomplishment from the Clinton years (add in Norn Iron) and she won’t even be allowed a slice of the credit by Obama or the press.
And what do the Press drones do–try to make her look absurd for visiting troops.
It’s wankerific.
“Here’s a signal accomplishment from the Clinton years (add in Norn Iron) and she won’t even be allowed a slice of the credit by Obama or the press.”
It’s not Obama’s fault Hillary ruined her “signal accomplishment” by lying about it.
LOL!!!!
Au contraire, eventually this will come back around to a real comparison between Hillary, her experiences and travels around the globe representing the US(including to the front lines with real threats of sniper fire) versus your boy doing nothing of substance….EVER
We will get past this and your empty suit will be shown to be exactly the inexperienced charlatan that he is.
“this will come back around to a real comparison between Hillary, her experiences and travels around the globe representing the US(including to the front lines with real threats of sniper fire) versus your boy doing nothing of substance….EVER “
Now that’s what I’m talking about…this is my bottom line with regard to FraudBama.
A picture is worth a thousand words. So let the MSM keep showing the footage of her surrounded by troops, greeting the military in a dangerous war zone that even the president didn’t tour.
And compare that to Senator Nada.
This is the real reason why they want Hillary to drop out now. So that he can crib note his way with a CRASH COURSE TOUR of photo ops in important places like Afghanistan, Europe, and Iraq for the November election.
He is such a fake!
“I’d never have accepted the invite to tour that hell hole.”
Yes, we know, you wouldn’t have gone there. Fine. Good for you.
So she’s a damn sight brave than me.
I think the answer is…yes.
Embellished just like Barack’s books, but only a hell of a lot more factually accurate. And Newsweek has been such an objective publication when it comes to the Clinton’s, riigghhhht.
So, now your mind is so numb you just paste a comment directly out of the Newsweek article?
http://www.newsweek.com/id/128977 (4th Paragraph)
“Clinton did more than misspeak; she told a richly detailed anecdote as part of a major address on foreign policy. And it was not the first time she has mentioned the snipers. In fact, the seeds of the Bosnian peril myth may have been planted years ago.”
I hope you don’t believe Obama didn’t commit plagarism.
Hey Obama was in a battle zone too in 1996!
He was busy fighting hard in the electorial application office busy having all competitors eliminated on technicalities so he could have a non-compete election into the state senate to get more money from his slumlord Rezko!
Listen to all my major speeches and buy my books, after all I promote them in very speech! I need your money! BO!
It would have been as dangerous as hell except for the fact that there had been a peace accord signed for 3 months. A peace accord that was holding “Surprisingly well”. Put together successfully with the help of Bill Clinton (Who i might add had visited the country 2 months earlier, which kind of ixnays the “if it’s too dangerous for the president we send the first lady.” quote).
Major General Nash said that at NO point in her 8 hour stay in Tuzla did he believe she was under any immediate threat ie: Duck your heads! Run for the cars we’re under attack!
As far as i’m concerned the expert, not an “Obama biased liberal media”, not a half rate disney comedian, not the Obama camp, or Obama kool-aid drinkers, A MAJOR GENERAL OF THE US ARMY puts this firmly in Hillary’s lap.
She lied. She got found out. She gets a red ex in her column.
If you don’t think she deserves it, fine. But next time Obama “misspeaks”, or Mcain will they be getting the benefit of the doubt? It’s a slippery slope.
the next time Obama mis-speaks, what about all the mis-speakings before from Rezko to NAFTA to lobbyists funding in bundes to ending the war in Iraq?
Oh forgot, they dont count, aftr all, Obama is the messiah! hey pass the doobee buddy!
Oh they count.
My issue is that this site overlooks one but pounces on the other. Gotcha politics always works both ways.
But at the end of the day neither of these candidates is perfect, far from it. You could slip a piece of paper between the two in regards policy. Time spent in office to me anyway isn’t a precondition to experience and or whether or not a candidate will be the best president ever. The country is in a bunghole, and people are desperate for a change…so desperate they’ll do anything. I think thats why this has become so incredibly personal for people. At the end of the day though…they’re both politicians. Certainly not messiah’s.
Rezko is dubious yep. No doubt. We’ll see what comes of that. Though you say Rezko, i say Norman Hsu. Red ex in both columns.
Naftagate? I’m not sure what to make of this debacle. A whole lot of he said, she said and a right wing Canadian government blundering itself into a shit storm, while it pretty stupidly tried to set a cat amongst the pigeons of the democratic race. As an American friend of mine says, with his tongue planted firmly in his cheek, “Nothing good has ever come out of Canada.” Red ex in the Canadian government’s column, a draw in the candidates. At the end of the day however i doubt either candidate when it comes to promises or lack thereof on this issue. So a potential future red ex for both.
Lobbyists are a part of American politics. Until the likes of a John Edwards seperates the two it’s a reality. I’m not sure why Obama continues to claim otherwise in regards his campaign. It’s a red ex in his column.
I’m not sure what your point is on Iraq, but similar to Nafta, i doubt either candidate will be able to keep their promises. Both have exactly the same policy in regards a pullout and both have subtly given themselves a backdoor out of those promises if they don’t/can’t live up to them (that said, if i could, i’d be for Clinton or Obama before Mcain). Violence is on the increase again…i think we’ll be there for at least another 2 or 3 years. A clusterfuck of an issue.
But pass the doobee anyway.
Obama “misspeaks
is impossible acording to any person who drank the Oborg kool-aid.
That’s just it: even when Obama lies, it’s called “misspeaking.” When Clinton makes a hint of a mistake, it’s called lying. Those are the rules.
Doug -
Sharyl Attkisson (contemporary CBS report)
“Officers say this is ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACES where US Forces are operating.”
Hillary Clinton:
“THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF NEVER MADE THIS FAR INSIDE BOSNIA when he visited in January.”
And don’t forget to keep Hillary’s comments intact
“There was a saying around the WH, that if a place was too small, too poor, or too dangerous, the president couldn’t go, so send the first lady.”
and she is snickering…so keep a joke a joke and don’t take it literally.
And sorry, but Obama has been confronted with his accounts and did he pull a mea culpa as fast as Clinton did? nope, he said over and over his people didn’t talk to NAFTA, then as more and more bits came out he kinda let his surrogates take care of things.
So if you are going to compare, then do it with some integrity.
I don’t have to defend Clinton so this is getting easy for me. As willie says, ‘I’ve you’ve got the money honey, i’ve got the time.’
Lets party baby. These clips work both ways.
Douglas -
We’ve seen the 1996 CBS story! Stop trying to lie about it Douglas!
Sure it might not have been any more dangerous than the buildings that the Oblamers doomed their constituents to,
so that they could get a mansion that they couldn’t otherwise afford,
but Rezko’s trial has just started.
Millions and millions of your tax dollars wasted because of Oblamer and the corrupt Daley machine.
What is this story that it was too dangerous for Pres. Clinton to go to Tuzla, so he sent his wife and daughter?
Can this be true?
Can this be true?
When confronted with reality, it is a fair question to ask.
Answer: She was not “sent” she just “went”. Next.
Well, I guess she can play with the boys, then, and then some.
Don’t you hate it when Hill consistently shows more balls than Obama?
I mean, his whole life, white women have had it out for him, his Mom, his grandmother, and now Clinton.
Damn, Obama’s had a little combat of his own, hasn’t he?
heh.
And not for one second would Bill Clinton send his wife and child into a combat zone, as an excuse for his own cowardice.
Obama is a coward, Bill Clinton is not, the American voter knows this about him.
Rove had to sell Bush as a hero, everyone knew, it was a matter of who would buy into the fantasy.
Clinton loves his family. He unfortunately does not respect them in a way most men are OK with, and most women are familiar with — infidelity.
But the difference between Obama and Co, and the Clintons, is respect of women, and family, Clinton, though flawed, would never childishly and carelessly and deliberately throw his grandmother, or mother, or wife, and child, under the bus.
Is Obama’s campaign aware of how narcisstically childish, how foolish it was to compare Obama’s grnadmother, an old, unwell elderly white woman, living alone, in Hawaii, doing her best, on social security, no doubt, comparing her to a vile, corrupt hateful racist misogynist preacher, a friend to Hamas, hamas, the murderers of innocents?
Violating her privacy in untellable ways, to once again save the mediocre, talentless spambot, Obama? How many times has she had to rescue his victim ass, anyway? How many times has the DNC had to rescue Obama’s ass, and now, in the VI, they’re rescuing Obama’s ass , again, no doubt. Spot a theme, here, a pattern?
Anyway, to answer the question, no, they’re not, they are that narcissitically childish, and amateur.
Shitty speech, btw.
And they still don’t get it.
grandmother, sorry.
I mean, his whole life, white women have had it out for him, his Mom, his grandmother, and now Clinton.
Should Alice Palmer be included in this list? See http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-0704030881apr04,0,6468332.story I suppose Ferraro doesn’t count.
Sharyl Attkisson contemporary reports: “but she organized the trip herself.”
I missed a few days, but I see you are still at it…
This site wants to build Clinton into a heroic war time figure, like the pentagon did with Jessica Lynch.
Except Jessica had the honesty and dignity to tell the truth.
mountains and molehills. SHe because a propaganda story because the war was going tits up in the middle phase. Once the Armour got to Baghdad she was forgotten.
No one thinks she’s a war hero. What people are pissed about is the glaring double standards.
Nathan -
Double Standards? Like the Oblamers never getting anything but smiley faces by the media for months on end?
And the Oblamers saying they’re above politics as usual, but…
instead writing a memo about injecting race into the campaign and blaming others,
lying about domestic policy advisor Goolsby’s visit with the Canadians,
having an advisor call Hillary a monster to the press in Europe
having that same foreign policy advisor call the voters in Ohio a bunch of Archie bunkers
claiming to be uniters and yet supporting one of the biggest hate groups in the country for 20 years.
keep your hyperbole in your head instead of projecting it on others.
If Tuzla was so safe back then, why did we call it a combat zone? Why did we have field hospitals with wounded people in them?
All this nonsense about whether or not she actually ducked and ran or whether or not she was just told she might have to duck and run, is incredibly stupid. It reminds me of swiftboating John Kerry.
It is the same.
Here’s a war Clinton and crew actually won, bloodlessly and she’s being ridiculed for talking about it.
It’s all coming from bitter Obama supporters.
There are plenty of things to hammer her about:
failure on healthcare in the early 90s etc
But this isn’t legitimate. Bosnia and Kosovo and the apprehension of Milosevic are largely down to what Clinton did.
Deomcrats are pissing on their own success here.
Obama can’t tun around and claim Kosovo as a succesful model now. He’s disowned a Democatic triumph and pissed on a fairly brave effort by Clinton to show up to let th troops know they are being thought about by the FLOTUS and POTUS….unfucking believable.
“Here’s a war Clinton and crew actually won, bloodlessly and she’s being ridiculed for talking about it.
It’s all coming from bitter Obama supporters.”
Well perhaps because many of them have to google and youtube it because they were 2, 3, 6, or 10 years old. I was raising my son, running a store, calling Congress trying to stop the carpet bombing.
But what do facts matter when you can wiki your life away?
This is rediculous, so she spoke a tad out of turn, to pad experience, the video proves she was there!
So to speak, it is like Obama talking of being in the State Senate for 7 yrs, when it was a part time job and roll call was only done on 55 of those days/yr, and Obama tossed out his scheculdes for deniability of all records of actions!
Or Obama having Chair of the sub-committee overight on NATO and Europe on his resume and doing nothing!
Or Obama claiming to have passed Bills that never passed, and the list can go on and on! Fact is, sometimes you goof, making a regular habit of it means you are a goof!
So who has made a regular habit of it is what judgement is all about!
Oh crap that is Obamagoof!
Brought to you by the Obama campaign on the Environment, Recycling matters, even words!
Sponsored by Your Corner Book Store, this months promotion, “Dreams of my Father” and “The Audacity of Hope”! All profits go to the Obama Trust fund to promote Minority housing in Chicago (Obama’s own)!
I still wish the press would get off there arses and demand to know what Elmer Gantry was doing while Hillary was on this tour on the front lines of a war.
I bet it would be more than illuminating what the empty suit from Illinois was doing and offer quite a comparison!!! It might even shut up the Obamaninations for a day at least!
he was raising money with Rezko, about $10,000 trying to run for Illinois Senate. He was campaigning…he was moving on to higher ground than his professor ship.
chris -
Not Professor - Senior Lecturer
oh yeah, I forgot that Obama was on the Supreme Court, thanks Mike H.
cheers
Speaking of, what was Obama’s role in the John Roberts confirmation?
I know he tacitly approved of Alito, when real progressives were up in arms.
Tomorrow I’ll put the roberts Senate confirmation on the tube and see if we have any comments. good question
What are you talking about? They both voted no on Alito and Roberts, both candidates websites post the speeches each gave… “tacitly supported” my eye.
http://obama.senate.gov/press/060124-obama_to_vote_n/index.php
We need about 100,000 Americans to go before a judge and publicly declare
that their middle names are their first names for legal purposes.
And they should also declare themselves as supporters of the Hussein
for Imam–whoops I mean president coalition. Hussein will be the
first Muslim president. Free Burkhas for everybody! Welcome to a pork
free world with no ham or pizza. You must not offer a pork chop
to Hussein. You must not put pork grease on your hands or your money
and certainly not in the graveyard. No pork anywhere!
I liked this part:
KLEIN: I think that there is — that being first lady really isn’t the greatest credential for being commander in chief. But that’s something that we have known in the past.
>that being first lady really isn’t the greatest credential<blockquote for being commander in chief
But a corrupt greasy pig in the form of Obama, on the take, who has never done an honest day’s work in his life, is OK?
You people are messed in the head.
If you aren’t a republican troll, I feel sorry for you, buying into that republican and Obama spew, being played for the fool.
All those poor earnest people, being played for fools by camp Obama.
How sad.
This whole Bosnia flap reminds me of the media’s treatment of Howard Dean’s “scream” during the 2004 election campaign. They take a video clip and maliciously misinterpret it, and they do it repeatedly until finally the smear becomes the reality. In Dean’s case, his enthusiasm at a campaign rally was transformed into a mental illness.
In Hillary’s case, CBS News knows the video they shot of her Tuzla, Bosnia arrival in 1996 doesn’t tell the whole story. They know very well how pictures and editing can lie, yet they claim their video proves Hillary’s recollections are dishonest. It’s nonsense.
Look closely at the recent CBS News report. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BfNqhV5hg4
The Tuzla arrival video begins on the tarmac, after Hillary’s airplane has already landed and after Hillary and her party have already deplaned. There is no video which contradicts Hillary’s statements that “I remember landing under sniper fire” or that the “hair-raising flight into Bosnia ended in a corkscrew landing.” Furthermore, no one disputes the threat of sniper fire as the C-17 troop-transport jet began it’s descent into Tuzla, and no one disputes that the plane made evasive maneuvers to avoid it.
Here’s what Hillary said recently: “When we were flying into Bosnia—part of the reason we were in the C-17 was because part of it is armored—I was move up into the cockpit, everyone else was told to sit on their bulletproof vests. You recall that. And, we came in . . . in an evasive maneuver. Those of you who’ve been on C-17s or C-130s know that one of their great characteristics is that they can take off very quickly and they can maneuver agilely to avoid incoming fire.”
Sit on your bulletproof vest because there’s a chance you might be shot? That sure sounds like a harrowing and dangerous flight to me! What’s more, we don’t know whether snipers were actually firing at the plane during it’s descent or not, and neither would the plane’s occupants know unless a bullet actually hit the plane somewhere near the passengers.
Hillary’s statement that they landed “under sniper fire” (or at least the threat of sniper fire) is TRUTHFUL!
Now, let’s look at Hillary’s statement about what happened after the plane landed. She said: “there was no greeting ceremony and we basically were told to run to our cars.” Cheryl Atkisson of CBS News claims “Problem is, that’s not what happened,” and provides about thirty seconds of video—showing Hillary on the tarmac, shaking hands with soldiers and kissing a little girl—which purportedly proves otherwise.
The problem with CBS’s proof is two-fold. First, “greeting ceremony” implies something more formal than just some handshakes. Hillary has said elsewhere that the greeting ceremony was moved indoors due to threat of snipers, and the CBS report avoids saying whether there was an indoor greeting ceremony or not. Second, what else happened on the tarmac besides the thirty seconds that CBS shows us? We don’t know, but it could very well be that at some point Hillary was told she had to leave because of threat of snipers.
Hillary’s statement that “There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles,” could also be TRUTHFUL.
Bottom line, it might have been more accurate to say the plane landed under THREAT of sniper fire, and the tarmac greetings were cut short due to THREAT of sniper fire. But, for CBS to spin Hillary’s recollections as dishonest is, well, dishonest.
Compare the recent CBS News report (above) to the original report which aired in 1996: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pef5AUt-tic
There is a huge difference in tone and emphasis. In 1996, CBS said “This is one of the most dangerous places where U.S. forces are operating. The President himself never made it this far inside Bosnia when he visited in January.”
I think the CBS video of the First Lady walking in a combat zone with soldiers in full combat gear shows a woman of tremendous courage. That’s what I see.
Does “we landed” mean “we people got out of the plane” — or, “the plane came down to the ground” while she was in the armoured cockpit and the others were sitting on armoured vests?
If the former, “we landed under the threat of sniper fire” and “we landed under sniper fire” — would be a mis-speak, a couple of words got dropped out in the speech as delivered. (Or perhaps the speech as transcribed.)
I think the descent and approach are part of the “landing,” at least as the word is commonly used.
As to whether there was actual sniper fire or only the threat of sniper fire, that’s a distinction without a difference. If the pilots made an evasive, corkscrew approach and the passengers were told to sit on their bulletproof vests, the threat was very real.
Hillary was being truthful when she said “I remember landing under sniper fire.”