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	<title>Comments on: Hillary and Bosnia [Updated]</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/</link>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Naturally</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-171009</link>
		<dc:creator>Naturally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/#comment-171009</guid>
		<description>I think the descent and approach are part of the "landing," at least as the word is commonly used.

As to whether there was actual sniper fire or only the threat of sniper fire, that's a distinction without a difference.  If the pilots made an evasive, corkscrew approach and the passengers were told to sit on their bulletproof vests, the threat was very real.

Hillary was being truthful when she said "I remember landing under sniper fire."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the descent and approach are part of the &#8220;landing,&#8221; at least as the word is commonly used.</p>
<p>As to whether there was actual sniper fire or only the threat of sniper fire, that&#8217;s a distinction without a difference.  If the pilots made an evasive, corkscrew approach and the passengers were told to sit on their bulletproof vests, the threat was very real.</p>
<p>Hillary was being truthful when she said &#8220;I remember landing under sniper fire.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-170924</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/#comment-170924</guid>
		<description>What are you talking about? They both voted no on Alito and Roberts, both candidates websites post the speeches each gave... "tacitly supported" my eye.

http://obama.senate.gov/press/060124-obama_to_vote_n/index.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What are you talking about? They both voted no on Alito and Roberts, both candidates websites post the speeches each gave&#8230; &#8220;tacitly supported&#8221; my eye.</p>
<p><a href="http://obama.senate.gov/press/060124-obama_to_vote_n/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://obama.senate.gov/press/060124-obama_to_vote_n/index.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-170896</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/#comment-170896</guid>
		<description>Tomorrow I'll put the roberts Senate confirmation on the tube and see if we have any comments.  good question</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tomorrow I&#8217;ll put the roberts Senate confirmation on the tube and see if we have any comments.  good question</p>
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		<title>By: 1950democrat</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-170884</link>
		<dc:creator>1950democrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/#comment-170884</guid>
		<description>Does "we landed" mean "we people got out of the plane" -- or, "the plane came down to the ground" while she was in the armoured cockpit and the others were sitting on armoured vests?

If the former, "we landed under the threat of sniper fire" and "we landed under sniper fire" -- would be a mis-speak, a couple of words got dropped out in the speech as delivered. (Or perhaps the speech as transcribed.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does &#8220;we landed&#8221; mean &#8220;we people got out of the plane&#8221; &#8212; or, &#8220;the plane came down to the ground&#8221; while she was in the armoured cockpit and the others were sitting on armoured vests?</p>
<p>If the former, &#8220;we landed under the threat of sniper fire&#8221; and &#8220;we landed under sniper fire&#8221; &#8212; would be a mis-speak, a couple of words got dropped out in the speech as delivered. (Or perhaps the speech as transcribed.)</p>
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		<title>By: 1950democrat</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-170878</link>
		<dc:creator>1950democrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/#comment-170878</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I mean, his whole life, white women have had it out for him, his Mom, his grandmother, and now Clinton.&lt;/i&gt;

Should Alice Palmer be included in this list? See http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-0704030881apr04,0,6468332.story  I suppose Ferraro doesn't count.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I mean, his whole life, white women have had it out for him, his Mom, his grandmother, and now Clinton.</i></p>
<p>Should Alice Palmer be included in this list? See <a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-0704030881apr04,0,6468332.story" rel="nofollow">http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-0704030881apr04,0,6468332.story</a>  I suppose Ferraro doesn&#8217;t count.</p>
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		<title>By: Naturally</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-170483</link>
		<dc:creator>Naturally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/#comment-170483</guid>
		<description>This whole Bosnia flap reminds me of the media's treatment of Howard Dean's "scream" during the 2004 election campaign.  They take a video clip and maliciously misinterpret it, and they do it repeatedly until finally the smear becomes the reality.  In Dean's case, his enthusiasm at a campaign rally was transformed into a mental illness.

In Hillary's case, CBS News knows the video they shot of her Tuzla, Bosnia arrival in 1996 doesn't tell the whole story.  They know very well how pictures and editing can lie, yet they claim their video proves Hillary's recollections are dishonest.  It's nonsense.  

Look closely at the recent CBS News report.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BfNqhV5hg4
The Tuzla arrival video begins on the tarmac, after Hillary's airplane has already landed and after Hillary and her party have already deplaned.  There is no video which contradicts Hillary's statements that "I remember landing under sniper fire" or that the "hair-raising flight into Bosnia ended in a corkscrew landing."  Furthermore, no one disputes the threat of sniper fire as the C-17 troop-transport jet began it's descent into Tuzla, and no one disputes that the plane made evasive maneuvers to avoid it.  

Here's what Hillary said recently: "When we were flying into Bosnia—part of the reason we were in the C-17 was because part of it is armored—I was move up into the cockpit, everyone else was told to sit on their bulletproof vests.  You recall that.  And, we came in . . . in an evasive maneuver.  Those of you who've been on C-17s or C-130s know that one of their great characteristics is that they can take off very quickly and they can maneuver agilely to avoid incoming fire."

Sit on your bulletproof vest because there's a chance you might be shot?  That sure sounds like a harrowing and dangerous flight to me!  What's more, we don't know whether snipers were actually firing at the plane during it's descent or not, and neither would the plane's occupants know unless a bullet actually hit the plane somewhere near the passengers.  

Hillary's statement that they landed "under sniper fire" (or at least the threat of sniper fire) is TRUTHFUL! 

Now, let's look at Hillary's statement about what happened after the plane landed.  She said: "there was no greeting ceremony and we basically were told to run to our cars."  Cheryl Atkisson of CBS News claims "Problem is, that's not what happened," and provides about thirty seconds of video—showing Hillary on the tarmac, shaking hands with soldiers and kissing a little girl—which purportedly proves otherwise.  

The problem with CBS's proof is two-fold.  First, "greeting ceremony" implies something more formal than just some handshakes.  Hillary has said elsewhere that the greeting ceremony was moved indoors due to threat of snipers, and the CBS report avoids saying whether there was an indoor greeting ceremony or not.  Second, what else happened on the tarmac besides the thirty seconds that CBS shows us?  We don't know, but it could very well be that at some point Hillary was told she had to leave because of threat of snipers.  

Hillary's statement that "There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles," could also be TRUTHFUL.

Bottom line, it might have been more accurate to say the plane landed under THREAT of sniper fire, and the tarmac greetings were cut short due to THREAT of sniper fire.  But, for CBS to spin Hillary's recollections as dishonest is, well, dishonest.

Compare the recent CBS News report (above) to the original report which aired in 1996: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pef5AUt-tic 
There is a huge difference in tone and emphasis.  In 1996, CBS said "This is one of the most dangerous places where U.S. forces are operating.  The President himself never made it this far inside Bosnia when he visited in January."  

I think the CBS video of the First Lady walking in a combat zone with soldiers in full combat gear shows a woman of tremendous courage.  That's what I see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole Bosnia flap reminds me of the media&#8217;s treatment of Howard Dean&#8217;s &#8220;scream&#8221; during the 2004 election campaign.  They take a video clip and maliciously misinterpret it, and they do it repeatedly until finally the smear becomes the reality.  In Dean&#8217;s case, his enthusiasm at a campaign rally was transformed into a mental illness.</p>
<p>In Hillary&#8217;s case, CBS News knows the video they shot of her Tuzla, Bosnia arrival in 1996 doesn&#8217;t tell the whole story.  They know very well how pictures and editing can lie, yet they claim their video proves Hillary&#8217;s recollections are dishonest.  It&#8217;s nonsense.  </p>
<p>Look closely at the recent CBS News report.  <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BfNqhV5hg4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BfNqhV5hg4</a><br />
The Tuzla arrival video begins on the tarmac, after Hillary&#8217;s airplane has already landed and after Hillary and her party have already deplaned.  There is no video which contradicts Hillary&#8217;s statements that &#8220;I remember landing under sniper fire&#8221; or that the &#8220;hair-raising flight into Bosnia ended in a corkscrew landing.&#8221;  Furthermore, no one disputes the threat of sniper fire as the C-17 troop-transport jet began it&#8217;s descent into Tuzla, and no one disputes that the plane made evasive maneuvers to avoid it.  </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what Hillary said recently: &#8220;When we were flying into Bosnia—part of the reason we were in the C-17 was because part of it is armored—I was move up into the cockpit, everyone else was told to sit on their bulletproof vests.  You recall that.  And, we came in . . . in an evasive maneuver.  Those of you who&#8217;ve been on C-17s or C-130s know that one of their great characteristics is that they can take off very quickly and they can maneuver agilely to avoid incoming fire.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sit on your bulletproof vest because there&#8217;s a chance you might be shot?  That sure sounds like a harrowing and dangerous flight to me!  What&#8217;s more, we don&#8217;t know whether snipers were actually firing at the plane during it&#8217;s descent or not, and neither would the plane&#8217;s occupants know unless a bullet actually hit the plane somewhere near the passengers.  </p>
<p>Hillary&#8217;s statement that they landed &#8220;under sniper fire&#8221; (or at least the threat of sniper fire) is TRUTHFUL! </p>
<p>Now, let&#8217;s look at Hillary&#8217;s statement about what happened after the plane landed.  She said: &#8220;there was no greeting ceremony and we basically were told to run to our cars.&#8221;  Cheryl Atkisson of CBS News claims &#8220;Problem is, that&#8217;s not what happened,&#8221; and provides about thirty seconds of video—showing Hillary on the tarmac, shaking hands with soldiers and kissing a little girl—which purportedly proves otherwise.  </p>
<p>The problem with CBS&#8217;s proof is two-fold.  First, &#8220;greeting ceremony&#8221; implies something more formal than just some handshakes.  Hillary has said elsewhere that the greeting ceremony was moved indoors due to threat of snipers, and the CBS report avoids saying whether there was an indoor greeting ceremony or not.  Second, what else happened on the tarmac besides the thirty seconds that CBS shows us?  We don&#8217;t know, but it could very well be that at some point Hillary was told she had to leave because of threat of snipers.  </p>
<p>Hillary&#8217;s statement that &#8220;There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles,&#8221; could also be TRUTHFUL.</p>
<p>Bottom line, it might have been more accurate to say the plane landed under THREAT of sniper fire, and the tarmac greetings were cut short due to THREAT of sniper fire.  But, for CBS to spin Hillary&#8217;s recollections as dishonest is, well, dishonest.</p>
<p>Compare the recent CBS News report (above) to the original report which aired in 1996: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pef5AUt-tic" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pef5AUt-tic</a><br />
There is a huge difference in tone and emphasis.  In 1996, CBS said &#8220;This is one of the most dangerous places where U.S. forces are operating.  The President himself never made it this far inside Bosnia when he visited in January.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I think the CBS video of the First Lady walking in a combat zone with soldiers in full combat gear shows a woman of tremendous courage.  That&#8217;s what I see.</p>
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		<title>By: simon</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-169606</link>
		<dc:creator>simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/#comment-169606</guid>
		<description>&#62;that being first lady really isn’t the greatest credential&#60;blockquote for being commander in chief

But a corrupt greasy pig in the form of Obama, on the take,  who has never done an honest day's work in his life, is OK?

You people are messed in the head.

If you aren't a republican troll, I  feel sorry for you, buying into that republican and Obama spew, being played for the fool.

All those poor earnest people, being played for fools by camp Obama.

How sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;that being first lady really isn’t the greatest credential&lt;blockquote for being commander in chief</p>
<p>But a corrupt greasy pig in the form of Obama, on the take,  who has never done an honest day&#8217;s work in his life, is OK?</p>
<p>You people are messed in the head.</p>
<p>If you aren&#8217;t a republican troll, I  feel sorry for you, buying into that republican and Obama spew, being played for the fool.</p>
<p>All those poor earnest people, being played for fools by camp Obama.</p>
<p>How sad.</p>
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		<title>By: simon</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-169604</link>
		<dc:creator>simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/#comment-169604</guid>
		<description>Speaking of,  what was Obama's role in the John Roberts confirmation?

I know he tacitly approved of Alito, when real progressives were up in arms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of,  what was Obama&#8217;s role in the John Roberts confirmation?</p>
<p>I know he tacitly approved of Alito, when real progressives were up in arms.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-169583</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/#comment-169583</guid>
		<description>oh yeah, I forgot that Obama was on the Supreme Court, thanks Mike H.
cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh yeah, I forgot that Obama was on the Supreme Court, thanks Mike H.<br />
cheers</p>
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		<title>By: Randall</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/comment-page-1/#comment-169400</link>
		<dc:creator>Randall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/25/hillary-and-bosnia/#comment-169400</guid>
		<description>I liked this part:

KLEIN: I think that there is — that being first lady really isn’t the greatest credential for being commander in chief. But that’s something that we have known in the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I liked this part:</p>
<p>KLEIN: I think that there is — that being first lady really isn’t the greatest credential for being commander in chief. But that’s something that we have known in the past.</p>
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