So Who Do the DEMOCRATS Want for a Nominee?
By Campskunk on March 25, 2008 at 9:17 PM in Barack Obama, Democrats, Hillary Clinton
Last month there were two interesting tabulations of the results so far in the primaries. We have seen all the tabulations of the popular vote and the arguments about who’s ahead, but these two were different. They counted the DEMOCRATIC vote. That’s right- the votes by actual, card-carrying Democrats in Democratic primaries.
Of course, you can’t measure this directly, and that’s for a reason. Every vote in the ballot box is the same. The only way to do this is indirectly, using exit polls. If you know the percent of voters who identified themselves as Democrats in exit polls, and the percentage of Democrats who voted for each candidate (again using exit poll data), you can take the recorded vote totals and figure out how many Democrats in each state voted for each candidate.
Is this pure science? Oh, hell, no. You’re extrapolating from a sample of a few hundred to millions of voters. But it’s way ahead of the anecdotal evidence we have that “those people in Mississippi who voted for Hillary were really Republicans” and “I heard that Obama got a bunch of Independents to vote for him”. At least it’s real numbers… probably the best available data to answer the burning question, “Who do the DEMOCRATS want for the Democratic nominee? We know who the Republicans want- somebody who will lose to McCain.
Onward to the numbers.
Let’s do a fast example. Say in State X, the vote totals were Obama 1,500,000 and Hillary 1,000,000. Obama won the primary, 60% to 40%. Now, suppose the exit polls said that only 60% of the voters self-identified as Democrats (in the vote total, that would be 1,500,000 of the 2,500,000 total votes), and of those Democrats in the exit polling, they favored Hillary 8 to 7 (53.3% to 46.7%). That means that Hillary got 800,000 of the 1,500,000 Democratic votes, and Obama got 700,000. Obama won the open primary by 500,000 votes (since the 1,000,000 non-Democrats went for him, 800,000 to 200,000, or 4 to 1), but lost the Democratic vote by 100,000 votes See how it works?
Last month there were two efforts to take the primaries so far, and all the exit poll data, and calculate who was ahead in the Democratic vote. One was from Cal Lanier over at The Perfect World, and can be found here. The Slate Trailhead blog had a mention of this, which is how I found it. Paul Lukasiak had a similar analysis up on Taylor Marsh’s site here
(cootie alert for Obama supporters).
Updating the totals since February by looking at TX, OH, VT, and RI, and even including Mississippi, Cal Lanier has the primary total as Hillary 10,210,076 Obama 9,133,765. Even throwing in the Democratic vote counts from caucus states, which aren’t technically votes, but might as well count, since it’s one Democrat’s opinion, that adds another 378,613 for Hillary and 683,111 for Obama, so Obama ends up losing the total Democratic vote by 771,813 votes.
Bottom Line? Here are the total votes cast by DEMOCRATS so far…
Hillary 10,588,689, Obama 9,816,876
And people wonder why she’s fighting for the nomination. Probably because more Democrats want her to get the nomination that want Obama to get it. I know, it’s a silly thing, this majority opinion by actual party members, but I thought I’d throw it out there.
OK, you can all screech away and attack the methodology, now that you’ve decided you don’t like the results. And remember RULE ZERO, as lambert over at Corrente says:
Rule Zero: Any rule that purports to impede Obama’s selection as Democratic nominee is not really a rule.
Cross-posted at MyDD.com.
(Release: November 13)
on sale for only $16.95.
has a spatula.)
8% Off at $11.95, with a rare five-star ranking by 294 customers: 
And check out these: 
("This crazy redhead is on to something. Her pink Rambler story alone is worth the price of the book," writes 
- “Richard Sale’s reportage on Washington, the CIA, the American armed forces, and foreign intrigue has created a perfect background for this account of the steady growth of President Clinton as a master of the game of nations.”--W. Patrick Lang, former head of Middle East Operations, DIA
"Anne C. Heller's stunning biography of Ayn Rand" uses a "plethora of newly unearthed research and fresh insight."
Someone just e-mailed this comment to me from another blog:
“I just checked the numbers and do you realize that 90% (640,000
votes) of Obama’s current lead (711,000) comes from the state of IL
alone? And that is when you take out FL & MI.”
And how much does his lead increase when you take out the state of NY?
Well, since we’re counting votes, let’s take out Illinois and New York and add in Florida and Michigan. That seems like a fair test.
Don’t see how removing either Illinois or NY is fair to either candidate. Adding in Michigan certainly isn’t, since Obama wasn’t on the ballot. Florida, debatable. But you also have to consider the caucus states that haven’t even reported popular vote #’s.
Why is Florida debatable when 1.7 million Democrats participated, and if Michigan is so sure fire Obamaland, why does Obama not want a primary there?
Florida is debatable because the candidates signed (and committed to) a pledge not to campaign there. It was not a contested primary. Counting the votes there is like a basketball game being cancelled by the league, only to have one team show up anyway, throw free throws, and call it “a win”. If Obama had campaigned in Florida, the margin would most certainly have been closer, as she could not have relied on just name recognition alone.
What pledge the candidates signed, the 1.7 million Democrats who voted in the Florida primary did not sign it. Don’t be so certain that Obama would have closed the margin in Florida. Florida really and truly is Hillary’s demographic, and there is a real reason Obama does not want to contest it.
Yeah, its exactly like having a game get cancelled by the league, and having one team show up.
Problem is, the one team that showed up was the Obama team- Obama bought tv ads that aired on Florida television, and he held a press conferenc in Florida, in violation of the rules.
Then he got smoked anyway.
Give me a break.
It’s interesting how none of you have brought up the popular vote margins Obama racked up in the caucus states he won, that haven’t been reported.
But don’t worry, everyone. As soon as Obama secures the nomination, by a healthy margin of delegates and popular vote, he will do the magnanimous thing, and seat the FL and MI delegations as is. See? All better?
Kind of hard to count votes that haven’t been reported…
I’m guessing that if Obama “allows” the seating of the Michigan and Florida delegates AFTER he’s wrapped up the nomination, the Democrats of Michigan and Florida will tell him he can have their general election votes sometime after McCain’s inaugural ceremony.
At the parade, they should wave signs reading “See? All Better?”
will obama wrap up the nomination before or after he is called as a material witness at the Rezko trial?
Brought to you by the Obama on the Environment, Recycling matters, especially words!
Sub-Titles for the hearing impaired sponsored by Your Corner Book Store, this months promotion, “Dreams of my Father” and “The Audacity of Hope”! Exurbs found in all my Major Speeches! All profits go to the Obama Trust fund to promote Minority housing in Chicago (Obama’s own)!
, throw free throws
Is that what you call PEOPLE who happen to live in Florida VOTED?
When’s an illegitmate, unsanctioned party contest, yet. Sorry, but no one actually has a constitutional right to vote in a party’s primary. The party makes the rules. Blame the state governments of FL and MI, not Obama, and not me.
I think I’ll blame you. You’re here.
Why do you hate democracy?
“Why do you hate democracy?”
Please. Although I do find your username really funny, in more ways than one…
From “Waifing for Godot.”
“Waiting for Troll”
A play with intellectual pretensions, unmet:
“Will”: Nothing to be done.
“Kevin”: Clinton has lost the delegate count, I was a Hillary supporter, but I’ve begun to come around to that opinion: for the good of the party, she must withdraw. And then we can resume the struggle, against the hated Mccain.
“John”: But we haven’t tried everything yet.We can always add Florida and Michigan…
Ya know, come to think about it, we could be speaking of Cheney’s staff, and Iraq, too.
Oh wait….it’s the mole troll!
Que: the elephant walk…
The party RULES allow for a revote, which the DNC approved and only Obama blocked.
If you think the voters in Florida and Michigan won’t remember that fact in November, in addition to the rest of us outside those two states, you are as naive and misinformed as I thought you were.
“If you think the voters in Florida and Michigan won’t remember that fact in November, in addition to the rest of us outside those two states, you are as naive and misinformed as I thought you were.”
Once nominee Obama seats the MI and FL delegations as is, despite the fact that those numbers shrink his victory margin, the “disenfranchisement” argument will be moot.
A tip for the Clinton supporters here: tossing in a personal insult to the person you are debating these issues with, is not exactly the best way to encourage them to see your point of view.
Will, these Hillarybots are not trying to persuade anyone. Deep down, they’re just depressed, angry and disillusioned. They know Hillary’s about to drop out, so they’re tearing down Obama out of spite. Uppity Obama got in the way of Hillary’s coronation, so there’s no way they’re gonna let him win. But you know what? It’s not up to them.
“But you know what? It’s not up to them.”
That’s right–it’s not.
That’s why they open comment threads with offerings like “do you realize that 90% of Obama’s current lead comes from the state of IL
alone?”
It’s like, uh, yeah. And if a frog had wings…
No actually – it’s like a basketball game there being cancelled by the league and BOTH teams showing up and playing a scrimage. And counting the results of that scrimage.
Both Clinton and Obama agreed not to campaign in Florida. However it was only OBAMA – not Clinton – who campaigned there. He had ad buys on several multistate television stations.
I’d say if Clinton is ok with counting that scrimage, then surely Obama shoujld be.
Hi Hype-Jersey, nice to see you visiting from Taylor Marsh.
As I’m sure you know, Obama’s Florida ad buy was not a Florida ad buy–it was a national ad buy that he was forced to include Florida in. The DNC approved the ad buy.
“I’d say if Clinton is ok with counting that scrimage, then surely Obama shoujld be.”
No one counts the result of a scrimmage. That’s why it’s a scrimmage. You’ve just made my point. I’m sure Hillary would love to have the scrimmage counted. But because it’s a scrimmage, as you’ve stated, it won’t be.
That is bull, the buyer choses the markets, and Obama knew the markets he was going to be advertising in! National advertising also has Do not advertise in XXXX markets but nice try, any second grade media person knows that one, but good try just the same!
He was FORCED to. Ahhhhh … it’s never his fault.
Of course not, Susan. Obama is the ONE, says Oprah.
(snark)
What kind of logic is this?
Obama DID campaign in Florida prior to the pledge. Evidence on youtube. Do you mean, if he had campaigned after the pledge was signed? Well, tough shit. No one campaigned, everyone was on the ballot, and Flordians aren’t stupid. They picked who they wanted.
Only one candidate broke the promise not to campaign in Florida – Barack Obama, who ran TV ads.
excuse me WILL,
i have told you as well as others have over and over again..so please stop the bullshit..
Obama * did campaign* in Florida and he was the *only candidate* of the entire field that did so..1 million $$ worth of commercials..
Now you know that Will, so stop playing the bullshit game!
Also Obama was the only candidate to come into Florida and tell voters he would seat the delegates..
so stop with the crap will ya??!!
flyarm, you really should stop lying. Running a national ad is not the same thing as campaigning in Florida. The DNC even approved the ad and said it violated no rules. Get it? Got it? Good.
And as long as we’re playing this game, Hillary agreed to the DNC’s rules prior to the Florida primary. You know — those rules that said Florida’s and Michigan’s delegates wouldn’t be seated. Now she’s desperate so she’s playing Lucy ball. Why should I trust someone who lacks the integrity to follow rules that she herself agreed to?
Where did the DNC say it violated no rules? Obama’s campaign say it, never seen a release by the DNC about it as the DNC approves nothing done by candidates!
As for running a national ad, media 101 is you chose each market you want to have your ads in and you chose those you don’t even in national ad campaigns, so you got it, good! Obama played a game to get a message out and that is campaigning, got it, good!
DNC approved the ad? Stop just making that shit up. You just look fucking stupid. By the way, FL did not have to be included in a national cable ad buy. That’s also bullshit.
to Viola
ahhh sweets..please do not call anyone else a liar..not becomming..especually when you don’t know what you are talking about.
As a 2004 Elected Delegate for the State of Florida..and being a 35 year member of the Democratic Executive Committee…I think I know darn well what the rules are!And I beg your differ…I know what campaigning is and how it is defined..Obama is the only candidate who broke his pledge..the only one ..in Florida..and please ..play your fools gold game somewhere else..
commericals are campaigning..
Obama spent about $130,000 in Michigan, and Obama spent $1.3 million in Florida—more than any other Democratic candidate and more than eight Republican candidates, who were eligible to win delegates from the state of Florida.
And, doing news conferences were breaking the Pledge rules as well..but dear obamabrat..your candidate did that too..seems the rules are for everyone but you’re Obama and for you obamabrats!
oh and dear little obamabrat..I live near Tampa where this took place ..and was one of many ..upset Democrats from my area, that Obama did this..as I was an Edwards supporter and volunteer for the Edwards campaign and traveled with his campaign out of the state Of Florida to work!! As Edwards did not break the pledge or rules in Florida, unlike the cheater Obama.
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking
Barack Obama held an impromptu news conference after a Tampa fundraiser Sunday.
By WILLIAM MARCH and ELAINE SILVESTRINI The Tampa Tribune
Published: September 30, 2007
TAMPA – Barack Obama hinted during a Tampa fundraiser Sunday that if he’s the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he’ll seat a Florida delegation at the party’s national convention, despite national party sanctions prohibiting it.
Obama also appeared to violate a pledge he and the other leading candidates took by holding a brief news conference outside the fundraiser. That was less than a day after the pledge took effect Saturday, and Obama is the first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Florida since then.Obama and others have pledged not to campaign in Florida until the Jan. 29 primary except for fundraising, which is what he was doing in Tampa.
But after the fundraiser at the Hyde Park home of Tom and Linda Scarritt, Obama crossed the street to take half a dozen questions from reporters waiting there.
The pledge covers anything referred to in Democratic National Committee rules as “campaigning,” and those include “holding news conferences.”
Obama seemed unaware the pledge he signed prohibits news conferences. Asked whether he was violating it, he said, “I was just doing you guys a favor. … If that’s the case, then we won’t do it again.”
Viola –
Your goats are calling! They’re calling white people responsible for 9.11 and giving AIDS to Blacks.
Why does Barack Obama support a Church that spouts hatred of whites, gays, Jews and America?
because he is a black racist….worse than any white racist and dangerous……
Yes, but Obama had advertisements running for 10 days while no other candidate ran any ads in the state of Florida.
Familiarity with the combine, and Chicago cheating would indicate IL numbers may also be suspect.
Obama did campaign in Florida through television ads. He also sent out mailers in both Florida and Michigan. Hillary did not campaign in either state. Tehre were no rules about taking their names off the ballot and the only reason Obama didthat was because he wanted to use it as a campaign point in Iowa.
When she complained about the television ads, Obama said it didn’t count.
So, Florida is not dabatable. Obama broke the agreement not to campaign, but Hillary beat him anyway, so the votes obviously don’t count.
DC Democrat; the answer to your last question is simple: FEAR
Yes.
Christ. Obama chose not to put himself on the ballot in Michigan. He then went to New Hampshire and Iowa and told voters in those states that Hillary was disrespecting their God-given right to be first by keeping her name on the Michigan ballot. Hillary took the heat for her decision to keep her name on the ballot in Michigan. Obama then told his supporters to vote “uncommitted” in Michigan, not the act of a guy who really doesn’t believe the votes won’t count.
And- why do we have to consider the caucus states that haven’t released popular vote totals? What if they don’t release these votes? Are we supposed to assign some random number to Obama based on a “perception” that heck, he sure got a lot of people to go to caucuses?
“Are we supposed to assign some random number to Obama based on a “perception” that heck, he sure got a lot of people to go to caucuses?”
It’s not a “perception”–that’s how he won them. Sorry.
But thanks for at least addressing the caucus/popular vote issue.
Wow, its like talking to an illiterate child. It really is. Are you really as dense as you sound?
I’ll try to go slowly, maybe you can keep up. We don’t know how many popular votes any candidates got in a number of caucus states. That’s the fault of the states. But it’s kind of hard to count the popular votes from those states when we Dont. Know. Them.
Slow enough for you? I doubt it.
“Wow, its like talking to an illiterate child. It really is. Are you really as dense as you sound?”
You’re actually neither talking, nor hearing anything. We’re just typing words to each other.
“I’ll try to go slowly, maybe you can keep up.”
You’re not doing that either.
“That’s the fault of the states.”
Right, Michigan and Florida. I think we’re getting somewhere!
Yes, JOhn. Will and Kevin are both that dense.
They don’t even know what the DNC rules actually ARE, but they mouth off a lot because they read something on an Obama blog.
Hard to believe these people get to vote, isn’t it?
“They don’t even know what the DNC rules actually ARE, but they mouth off a lot because they read something on an Obama blog.”
Why don’t you explain what the rules are then? You seem to believe you have some understanding of them I don’t. Go ahead. I’m waiting.
I was thinking it’s like sock puppet theatre, a xerox of a lesser
“Waiting for Godot,” of sorts.
Scene one, fade in: three sock puppets, sitting underneath a tree, on a low dirt mound, waiting for something that will never come:
intellectual enlightenemnt.
There were three other Dems on the Michigan ballot…Dodd, Gravel, and Kucinich. Ostensibly, Obama, Edwards and Richardson and Biden were glad to take their names off because they were losing so badly. And Obama was about to lose the Black vote in MI. They took their names off, and Hillary and the 3 other Dems left their on.
Will, are you saying the votes of either Michigan or Florida should not be counted?
Just checking…
since Obama wasn’t on the ballot. Florida, debatable
Just want to check that you are clear on what Obama did regarding Michigan…
consider the caucus states that haven’t even reported popular vote #’s.
There were no “popular votes” in those states
with a caucus.
“There were no “popular votes” in those states
with a caucus.”
Then they’re no different than the primaries. Both systems are electing delegates. If you’re going to wade into the popular vote morass, and ignore the delegate count, this is the trouble you get into.
Wow, even for an Obamabot, you are pretty damned stupid. Caucuses are no different from primaries because there are no popular votes in states that use a caucus– Huh? There are actual, real popular vote totals in states that use primaries- you really don’t know that? Or are you REALLY as stupid as you sound? And if so, who turned your computer on for you?
And having lost your argument, you switch back to “look at the delegate count?”
Please, change your underwear and go running back to someplace your amazing analytical skills can be appreciated- HuffingtonPost, DailyKos, etc.
“This is the trouble you get into?” Whatever. Please, give up on us. Shake your head and throw up your hands in disgust and just GO AWAY. We clearly are not within your reach. We can’t be educated, Mr. Obamabot Genius. Don’t waste any more time with us. We are not worthy of you.
“Caucuses are no different from primaries because there are no popular votes in states that use a caucus– Huh? There are actual, real popular vote totals in states that use primaries- you really don’t know that?”
What do you call the individual people who arrive at the caucus, and caucus for a particular candidate? That’s the popular vote. There are numbers on those people, and they obviously tilt heavily for Obama, since he has overwhelmingly won the vast majority of caucuses. They just aren’t released everywhere.
“And having lost your argument, you switch back to “look at the delegate count?””
I didn’t “switch back”–I pointed out that since that the popular vote argument is pointless, since what matters is the delegate count anyway.
“We can’t be educated.”
I don’t believe you. How nice am I?
I pointed out that since that the popular vote argument is pointless,
“One person one vote” Voting is pointless. Do you read what you type?
since what matters is the delegate count anyway.
What matters are our Constitutional rights.
Your pretzel logic is just like the 3 trillion dollars of equity that just went up in smoke in the housing market.
Voting is constitutional right being denied to two States of this Union.
Let the chips fall were they may.
By your logic, if Obama had kept his name off ALL the ballots in ALL the states, he’d have a strong moral argument that he deserves the nomination. Thanks for playing anyway.
“By your logic, if Obama had kept his name off ALL the ballots in ALL the states, he’d have a strong moral argument that he deserves the nomination.”
No, that’s your logic, and it’s pretty ridiculous.
Obama removed his name as a political ploy and convinced Edwards, Biden and Richardson to do the same. They were pandering to Iowa, NH particularly and trying to hurt Clinton with those states. Obama knew that he would lose big in Michigan, so he wanted to deny her a victory. So, why should a politician be rewarded when his tactical move worked (he was able to be in the position he is now), but, the strategic move will backfire (MI should count or a re-vote)?
Obama played politics as did his shills, Brazile and Dean (very sorry about Dean – I was a big supporter of his but now can see he has shown no leadership and appears to be willing to disenfranchise voters).
“Obama played politics”
One question: why didn’t Hillary defend MI and FL when they had their delegations stripped in late 2007? Oh, gosh, she wouldn’t have been “playing politics”, would she?
I asked my question first – why should Obama be rewarded when his political ploy backfired on him? My answer – he lost the gambit and now should face the consequences. The voters should be the ones rewarded by having their votes counted, not a politician who played the game and now fears to face those voters because he will lose.
Obama is nixing a re-vote because he will lose. The DNC has stated that MI’s re-vote would meet the requirements and Obama stated he would abide by the DNC rules, unless the rules have him lose (the Obama rules – no one or nothing should be able to stop him from getting the nomination even if that means disenfranchising voters). Obama is Bush – and the mantra is don’t count the votes that would make you lose.
My answer to your question – doesn’t matter now – she is backing a solution (wow, again the candidate for solutions) that the DNC said is good under the DNC rules to allow the delegates to be counted and seated and allows voters to choose who they want.
Well, since we can’t add in Florida and michigan, I think it only fair to count New York 3 times.
Yeah. Make sure to remove the black vote too. And college kids, because they’re just frigging annoying, right?
You are really a snide guy. No one has ever said that. But, now that you mention it, not a bad idea (I am just joking just in case you think I really would back a plan to disenfranchise voters).
“You are really a snide guy.”
Oh, don’t get so personal. I’m just mocking the various Clinton arguments for why her candidacy should still be considered viable, and why Obama’s victories, and current lead, don’t matter.
As in: “that state was too black”, “that state used caucuses”, “that state was too white”, “that state is too small”, “that state is too Republican”, “that state is too liberal”, “that state is his home state”…
Haven’t really read you much before but from this one post, you are an incomparably dense prick.
“Haven’t really read you much before but from this one post, you are an incomparably dense prick.”
Nice to meet you, too. It’s nice that we Democrats can be so civil to one another.
You do have that Beckett thing going, really.
Without the talent or the insight.
“Will” is trolling.
Will is fearful of power, and smart people. He is terrified of being abandoned, of becoming irrelevant, which he already is, since he’s creating his own responses. Will is easily intimidated, and can’t handle himself in a fight, and Will can’t stand to be ignored.
When you read Will’s posts, again, think of a pretense toward French existential post modernism, (without depth of intellect).You’ll get a sense of rhythm from the sock puppets: a has been washed up character from a Beckett play, a sad little bore.
Pretzel logic, indeed.
Just like Steely Dan.
Will:
Why do you ask ? Can’t add and subtract on your own?
Obviously not otherwise you would have not written:
If you throw both IL and NY Obama’s lead still decreases by about 40-50% (depend whose count you use).
No increase; decrease. Let me know if you need help with first grade algebra.
From someone who knows. I’m laughing.
“If you throw both IL and NY Obama’s lead still decreases by about 40-50% (depend whose count you use).”
I didn’t ask for both–I asked what happens if you take out just NY.
It was a silly fantasy game of numbers that was trotted out to begin with. I was making the obvious point that if you remove an inconvenient fact–i.e., that Obama won his own state in a landslide, or the same for Hillary–you’ll feel much better about your favored candidate’s current position. But it doesn’t actually make a scrap of difference, does it?
BTW, I don’t know why you guys need to always throw in the insults with your postings.
Daily Kos is more your speed, Will. Why do you guys come and look for us? Can’t you just leave us alone?
“Daily Kos is more your speed, Will. Why do you guys come and look for us? Can’t you just leave us alone?”
I like a good debate. Unlike some of the Clinton supporters around here, and the Obama supporters over at Kos, I get pretty bored with a 24/7 agreement orgy.
Well, we’re tired of debating you. We leave the pig pen to the . . . well . . . fill in the blank . . . take our marbles and go and place elsewhere, and you folks chase us across the worldwide web like children in search of their mothers.
Our generation gave yours birth. As Freud observed to Jung, “The son always wants to kill the father.”
“Well, we’re tired of debating you.”
Stop replying to me, then. I think you actually are finding this entertaining and stimulating. That’s why you come to these forums in the first place.
“Our generation gave yours birth.”
You have no idea how old I am.
““The son always wants to kill the father.””
Geez! No one is trying to kill anyone! You guys take this WAY too seriously. We’re all Democrats, let’s calm down a bit, OK?
Will –
Who said that we’re all Democrats?
I’m sure that you and Kevin aren’t registered anywhere.
Viola should be institutionalized.
Michael Lafferty should be educated.
But you and Kevin are clearly on Spring Break and can’t get dates.
Being in a college dorm room with nothing but girlie magazines to keep him company probably is lonely if mildly satisfying experience.
You write a child. I assume you are one.
poor will simply has to find someone to argue with…
It’s happening in lots of places. When Hillary’s supporters abandoned Daily Kos, the Obama supporters started follow us like children after the Pied Piper. It’s sort of pathetic really, but here they are.
Is that what DKos is now? An agreement orgy? We used to think of it as a circle jerk, but to each his own. An agreement orgy is the same thing minus the pleasure.
Will says..I like a good debate.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
fly replies..no you don’t ..you are just like the old Bushbots..you are like a festering pus bag ..who likes to spread your pus and diseased ideas….and smear it all over anyone willing to play your sick pathetic game!
your crap is old ..and worn out!
go play with the pitiful kool aide drinking … little obamabrats…who can’t think for themselves.
Etc. etc.
Thanks for this and other hideous comments. I am sending it to my grandmother who thinks Clinton supporters are nice people because they are supporting a woman.
She is a “typical white Grandmother”
who does not approve of rudeness and cuss words.
sajo –
How come you haven’t already thrown your grandmother under a bus like BO?
When the going got tough as he was found out to be the white hating, gay hating, jew hating, U. S. hating scum of the Earth piece of shit- BO attacked his own Grandmother!!
Are you on Medicare? Do they cover therapy?
Or maybe remedial reading where they help you analyze and comprehend written text.
Who is the the “white hating, gay hating, jew hating, U. S. hating scum of the Earth piece of shit” you are attempting to describe.
This is bordering on hallucination
This is bordering on hallucination
A Journey to Exelon.. oops I meant;
A Journey to Ixtlan
http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/
sajo
go back to school ,easter break must be close to over.. you are annoying..when i raised my kids, i had a time out chair..you need one now!!..
but since i raised my kids and put them through college and they have successful jobs and are responsible adults..i don’t have to listen or put up with little spoiled obamabrats!!
oh and i bet your grandma and i could discuss her little obamabrat with shared thoughts ….
and you…well you have no right to tell me anything or correct me on anything..when you have lived life and paid taxes and bills and worked in the dem party … as long as i have and raised a family and worked your whole life..then we can have a discussion.,.until then.,,..i don’t have the time of day for little obamabrat trolls like you.
thank you..now get to bed ..it must be past your bedtime!
Flying Monkeys gotta fly. That’s their job.
As Darryl Royal once said about cock roaches…
The reason is that the race is essentially tied and it is a sham to say otherwise; these examples prove that point. So, let the rest of the voters make their choices, either take the MI and FL votes (I think this is what should happen) or re-votes in both states, and let the automatic delegates vote their best judgement.
It’s not tied. Obama is ahead.
I’m not against a revote. I wish that could work out. But I’m also not for dragging this primary all the way into August, which is what the revote could entail.
I’m also not for rewarding states who dare the DNC to sanction them by flagrantly violating well understood rules. Both MI and FL knew exactly what they were getting into. If Dean doesn’t enforce the rules now, we’ll have 2012 beginning in 2010.
So Dean enforces the rules, well then Dean should have pulled Obama’s card for running for the Nominee when he sent out fliers in Michigan telling voters to vote unknown, because that is campaigning and Obama broke the rules! So fair is fair is it not, well not to Obamabots!
So Dean didn’t. Blame Dean.
Word is Dean hasn’t yet!
Come on, approx. 120 pledged delegates (I know because this is such a stupid process, the delegated count has several different numbers depending on who is reporting what) and an popular vote of 700k to 800k without MI and FL with over 20 million or so votes is not essentially a tie? Of course it is and we can really see a tightening with the upcoming elections and Clinton doing really well.
If Obama would quit blocking the revotes, there is plenty of time to have a them in the late May, early June which is within the rules of the DNC.
And, the DNC could have broken the Iowa and NH duoply, but they chose not to do that. FL was ginned by the Repugs and the two states were unduly “penalized” by Brazile etal by taking all the delegates.
Finally, the voters are the ones being punished and disenfranchised. Rules and process do not trump voters. This is not a good argument for Democrats to make that the Party rules are more important than voters. Seems like Republicans 2000 and if this stands – with Obama “winning” without FL and MI, then it is just as illegimate as Bush’s “victory”. And this lifetime Democrat will not be voting for any Democrats that support this and I will be writing in Clinton.
It was the Republican party in FL that chose to have an early primary.
The Republicans tacked on the early primary amendment to a bill dealing with better voting machines.
And what did Disaster Dean and Bitch Barzile do? Screwed Democrat voters!
Yeah, that’s why they’re there. To disenfranchise democrats.
You pay extra for that!
you’ll feel much better. That is Obama code. Will, what do feelings have to do with vetting a candidate?
I don’t know why you guys need to always throw in the insults with your postings.
Cause you percieve it to be true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Livingston_Seagull
You are Very WISE Kite..
I am Pleased to share your Sky….
Had that one open since you mentioned it yesterday. Nothing like a sky filled with kites…ask any Afghan..LOL you do have to watch the trolls as they stand under the seagulls though.
Ah Yes..The Trolls..With thier Mouths open as usual..
I just ordered KITE FLYER..speaking of Afhanistan..I hear its a Remarkable Movie..
I Love The Oregon Coast and the kites there..I have several singles and tandems..I Love the Sound of the tandems in the Wind..
The Sprials are Fun..
Let me know if you need help with first grade algebra.
Crap.. you guys took algebra in first grade?
no wonder i can’t balance my checkbook.
On a happy note, This will be the first time i remember that our vote in Indiana will count for something. Eat you hearts out Michigan and Fl. The first will be last and the last will be first..
Everyone is urging us to sign this petition:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/seatourdelegates/index.html
It will be delivered to Dean, I think.
Susan, I know this is off topic, but I was looking at Obama’s tax returns. In 2006 he only paid his Hispanic sounding nanny? 6000.00. That seems awfully cheap for a nanny for two children. Intersting that in 2005, they paid 9000.00 some, they paid a non-Hispanic worker quite a bit less for some reason apparently. I find this a little odd, after school child care 15 years ago was running around 100.00 a week here for one child. 100 x 52 = 5200. So for 2, that 6000.00 would be very cheap. I looked into rates on line and the average rate per child in Chicago at all day weekly day care was 434.00, that can’t be right though or can it? Anyhow I just thought this might be an interesting point to make if you put something else up about his tax returns. Pretty oppressive wage if you ask me.
Done
Thanks. Words don’t matter when votes are said to be “meaningless”.
I am so weary of the Obama camp making claims upon the nomination when, without the support of people who do not belong to the party, he would be taking up the rear by any measure. If he gets this nod, the Republicans will have what they wanted, a cake walk. Thank God the real Democrat in the race doesn’t give up and keeps on fighting.
Right, even though he’s the most liberal U.S. Senator…
They vote for him because they think he’s easy pickins, and guess what, they’re right.
That’s not why I voted for him. I voted for him because his progressive, anti-war politics match mine, and he’s a far better politician than Hillary.
Anti-war politics? You mean the speech in 2002? Or when he said Bush was doing a good job in Iraq? Or when he voted exactly the same way as Clinton since he actually HAD to vote? Or how his “plan” to remove the troops from Iraq will take longer than Clinton’s?
And progressive? He has allowed, and SUPPORTED, rampant sexist attacks on Clinton, has had a blatantly homophobic minister speak for him in SC, and THAT’S progressive?? You gotta be kidding me. Clinton has done more for women, children, the LGBT community, the Hispanic community, to name a few, than Obama has EVER done, yet you label HIM the progressive?? Yeah. Okay.
Facts are not interesting to Obama supporters. Will wrote yesterday that he desire a transcendent presidency. Seems to me that was what Bush supporters in 2000 were bargaining for; they have been sorely disappointed. In the highly unlikely event Barack Obama becomes president, his supporters also will be sorely disappointed. Barack Obama is not a transcendent figure.
“Will wrote yesterday that he desire a transcendent presidency. Seems to me that was what Bush supporters in 2000 were bargaining for.”
If Bush supporters thought they were getting that from an overgrown recovering alcoholic frat boy, they were dumber than he is.
For my take on why Obama’s will be a transcendent presidency, please read the following:
http://todayslies.com/2008/02/02/my-obama-endorsement.aspx
I am sick of Obamadroid drivel.
Don’t feed the ignorant troll, DC.
If he gets no attention, he goes away.
I’ve tried really hard, but honestly, I can’t think of anything I care about less than why you get a hard-on whenever you think about Barack Obama.
Now if you don’t mind, the grownups here are trying to get a real human being- not a transcendent figure, not a mirage, not an image maintained by smoke and mirrors, but a proven leader- elected President.
“I’ve tried really hard, but honestly, I can’t think of anything I care about less than why you get a hard-on whenever you think about Barack Obama.”
Then why are even bothering responding? Obviously, the thought of me getting a hard-on is something you actually are thinking about.
“Now if you don’t mind, the grownups here are trying to get a real human being- not a transcendent figure, not a mirage, not an image maintained by smoke and mirrors, but a proven leader- elected President.”
Right, because Barack Obama is not actually a human being.
Would a “real human being” leave 11 Chicago tenements in his senate district with out heat or running water, in the middle of a Chicago winter and claim he did not know of the plight of his charges?
While continuing a 17 year friendship with Rezko who was the man responsible for the misery of those Obama was responsible for?
Is that what REAL human being does?
Do you think you won’t be next?
i believe i read Obama has used Cocaine..so are you saying since Bush is an overgrown frat boy..Obama is the same?
i believe i read Obama has used Cocaine..so are you saying since Bush is an overgrown frat boy..Obama is the same?
Amen to that. And I apologize for feeding the trolls – I hadn’t seen the author of that post before I responded. Mea culpa.
And this whole thing abt Florida – Obama CHOSE to have ads run in FL, in CLEAR and DIRECT contradiction to the pledge taken. He was the ONLY major candidate to campaign there, and he still lost – by a LOT. Same in MI in which radio ads telling his supporters to vote Uncommitted. He cannot even claim credit to all of the Uncommitted voters there since some of them MUST belong to Edwards.
He made a HORRIBLE campaign strategy in MI, and it backfired. He should get NO do-overs for it, unless Clinton gets to pick a state of HER choice (and I don’t mean FL in which people SURELY knew who he was – they do have papers, tvs and radios down there – how abt a caucus state in which the Obama people strong-armed her supporters, or locked them out of buildings? GO with the POPULAR vote in one of those states – heck, even Washington State’s VOTES would be better – she didn’t lose by much in the actual vote, but the CAUCUSES? Yeah. Lots of reports abt how THOSE worked out, and most of those reports were not good in terms of Obama’s supporters’ behavior.)
I guess Will gave up when no one bought his unsupported “Obama is more progressive” argument. Come on, Will, surprise us. Answer what AmyinSC posted.
I just did…
Ohhhhh – so tempting!!! All of those typical “Obama talking-points.” Must not take the bait…
“Anti-war politics? You mean the speech in 2002?”
If there is no difference between the two, why didn’t Hillary make a speech against the war in 2002? Better yet, why didn’t she vote against it?
“Clinton has done more for women, children, the LGBT community, the Hispanic community, to name a few, than Obama has EVER done, yet you label HIM the progressive??”
Voting for the war only hurt women and children. Supporting her husband’s Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy only hurt the LGBT community. Supporting DOMA only hurt the LGBT community. I’ll let Bill Richardson answer for your remarks on the Hispanic community.
What about the, “Way to go, Bushie,” comment. You’re on a role, boy. Don’t stop now.
Bill Richardson does not speak for the Latina community, more Latinas recognize America Ferrara then they do Richardson; but Latinas know and love Hilary Clinton and respect McCranky for his Immigration votes, I feel very confident saying the Latina vote will go for Clinton, then McCain if Obama gets the nom, please dont mistake Richardson as proxy for Latina votes…….
” Supporting her husband’s Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy only hurt the LGBT community. Supporting DOMA only hurt the LGBT community.”
Of course, Obama bringing two different anti-gay preachers on his campaign trail has been just great for gays. But as with Wright, he really didn’t know they were virulent gay bashers. And of coure, Obama disagrees with them.
Obama conveniently hit the wrong button on a bill to protect victims of sexual crimes. So, yes, he’s a real women’s crusader.
Hillary Clinton went to China and gave an incredible speech demanding equal treatment for women. She was instrumental iin gettting SCHIP passed. That is very important to women and children. Oabam is always out of the office when a women’s issue comes up. Hillary has been on the frontlines of that fight for 35 years.
Thanks for this post, campskunk. I read this originally of The Perfect World, but your updated figures make sense.
I don’t even know why Obama is still in the race. He’s radioactive and will NEVER win the GE. I’m beginning to think that either he’s the biggest egomaniac ever or he’s in cahoots with McCain.
As far as the people who still support him; I don’t know what to say. Losers, comes to mind, but that’s probably unkind. Gullible, naive and unskilled in critical thinking may be more appropriate.
In any case, anyone who says that Obama is progressive, anti-war and a better politician than Hillary has NOT been staying up on current events.
Are you a Republican? If not, you shouldn’t have replied to this comment because it was talking about why Republicans vote for Obama and I don’t think it is because of the reasons you cited.
I beg your pardon? It’s unclear who the “you” is that you, alexei, are addressing.
No worries.
I want to share this from a poster named Larry, who lives in Indiana. Larry’s interpretation of Obama’s “race” speech. I think he captures the gist:
Lullaby, and good night.
Just ignore Pastor Wright.
Go ahead and vote for me,
Or you’re a racist, white-ey.
that poem sucked
Alexei,
The NEW state polls at SUSA (after Wright) show that Obama no longer draws Independents or Reagan Democrats. They’re all moving to McCain instead.
And 58% of the African American vote were deeply offended by the Wright tapes and found them racially divisive.
It explains, then, why the Obama campaign is in a frenzy to trash Clinton and try to push her out of the race as soon as possible.
Pennsylvania will be a DISASTER for the Obama campaign, and the superdelegates know that now.
“Pennsylvania will be a DISASTER for the Obama campaign, and the superdelegates know that now.”
Why has Obama pulled back to within 10 points in PA, then?
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/pennsylvania/pennsylvania_democratic_presidential_primary
Interesting quote from the Rasmussen report:
Overall, 38% are somewhat or very concerned about Obama’s relationship with Wright. That figure includes 62% of Clinton supporters, 11% of Obama voters, and 36% of those who are undecided.
Of all the people who are concerned about Obama and Wright, 62% are Clinton supporters. They really want to hang on to that story …
More like Obama supporters are in total denial of Obama’s disgraceful relationship with Wright: that alone made him unelectable in November.
ahh Will..
“Pennsylvania will be a DISASTER for the Obama campaign, and the superdelegates know that now.”
Why has Obama pulled back to within 10 points in PA, then?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
fly replies..because most of Pa is in Fla this week on easter break!!..they are not home answering their phones!!
Only in his last year (of 2.5 years) in the US Senate not before (he has a tendency to show off). How does his vote (yes) of Cheney’s 2005 Energy Bill sound to you?
As for anti-war: please send me all his efforts, public speeches, op eds (local papers would do) and
other activites he has done in addition to
his 2002 speech. And by the way how does his vote (yes) in support of Gen Casey’s confirmation sound to you?
sorry, I almost spewed my water on my keyboard laughing at this. It goes to show where you get your talking points though.
You hear that? It’s the sound of me playing the tinyest violin in the world.
The only guarantee we have in this election is that if Hillary is the nominee, McCain is the next president. Good thing Hillary won’t be the nominee. And, therefore, good thing McCain won’t be President.
“The only guarantee we have in this election is that if Hillary is the nominee, McCain is the next president. Good thing Hillary won’t be the nominee. And, therefore, good thing McCain won’t be President.”
Amen to that, Viola.
Viola –
Your goats are calling you! The Oblamers are hating whites, Jews, gays and America and you need to be in the Virgin Islands with your 98 lb weakling.
The Obamabots are so loathsome and allergic to the truth, they are able to keep these two narratives going simultaneously and without a hint of irony:
1. “Hillary could win every remaining primary by big margins and it wouldn’t have ANY IMPACT AT ALL on Obama’s delegate lead or his lead in the popular vote” (Sam Seder, whom I once respected, hung this nugget on his listeners on Sunday.)
2. “Hillary needs to win by a HUGE margin in Pennsylvania to remain viable- like 64%-36%..”
So, which is it? If Hillary can’t make a dent in Obama’s lead, what difference does it make what her margin in Pennsylvania is??
The only logical answer: The Obamabots are full of shit. They just pull stats out of their asses and throw them out there, knowing the Hillary-hating media will run with it, never mind how nonsensical it sounds (and is.)
But, what else is new? These are the guys who told us Hillary had to win New Hamphire (when they thought she would lose New Hampshire.) These are the guys who told us that if Hillary didn’t win California she was finished. These are the guys who demanded that Hillary withdraw before Ohio and Texas, then said that if she failed to win both states, she was finished (her “goalposts.”) Then she won both, and it changed their narrative not one iota. (So, who keeps moving the goalposts, again?)
Tonight there’s a new narrative, courtesy of ABC news, that will be all over the mass media and Air America tomorrow- Hillary Clinton is just like Tonya Harding. She won’t “admit defeat.” She’s “whiny” and she thinks that if she cries enough, she’ll get her way.
More utterly rank sexism. I just hope that, like every other attack they’ve made, this one comes back to bite them in the ass.
The media knows Hillary’s going to win Pennsylvania BIG, and probably Indiana too- and she has a great shot at North Carolina. They don’t quite know how they are going to spin it once those states fall into Hillary’s column, so they are back at it, trying to dismiss all remaining votes to be cast as “irrelevant” and Hillary as a “sore loser.” Pathetic.
The “Tonya Harding Strategy” line coined by that idiot Jake Tapper over at ABC News took less than two hours to make it to the pro-Obama blogs.
I’ve said before and I’ll say again that no one has been subject to the treatment by the media that Hillary Clinton has endured. At some point you’d think they’d catch on that the more they abuse her, the more voters rally to her.
No, the more the media abuses Hillary, the more the independents and centrists turn away from her. Face it, Hillary is toast. She can’t win the general election with support from only a fraction of the Democrats. If Hillary’s were to become the nominee (a virtual impossibility at this point), she’d lose to McCain in a 60-40 landslide. Someone needs to remind Hillary (and her delusional supporters) that the race is over. Time for her to drop out.
And Obama can’t win the general, either.
Viola, you must be thinking Obama is beloved by EVERYONE…you are wrong. Reality bites.
There is no way in hell Obama will win the November election against McCain.
He’s losing the white male vote, the disillusioned youth vote, the Hispanic vote, and the Independents and Reagan Democrats. And he NEVER had the women vote.
You need to get out more, Viola.
You’re wrong. Hilary Clinton’s New Hampshire primary victory, a win NO ONE predicted, can almost certainly be attributed to the abuse during the final debate that she endured at the hands of the media, her male opponents, and the moderators, and the graceful way in which she responded. That’s just one example of what I mean — the more her opponents pile on, the more favorably voters view her.
If anyone’s unelectable, it’s Obama. I’ll support him if he’s nominated, but come on, who really stands a better chance of winning? A candidate who’s NEVER been in a tough fight and has not undergone real scrutiny, or a candidate whose opponents have falsely accused her of everything up to and including murder, only to see her defeat them at every turn?
McCranky to Obama at debate: I know Tracey Kerrigan and you Senator Obama are no Tracey Kerrigan, now out of the way youngster America has work to do
-then 49 state landslide to McCranky-
he carries
Latinas
blue collar Dems
military
Seniors
the minorities of the USA that dont make Obama’s frame-Asian Americans, Native Americans, Indian Americans, lots of Americans!
lots of women, soccer moms, security moms, my mom!
Indies by 50%
GOP (mythical crossover to BO gone after Wright)
Obama carries:
“overly educated ultra neo progressive liberal Democrats many of whom have misogynistic tendencies”
AA
the youth vote (who isnt voting for HRC, lots of PA youth seem to like HRC despite reports to the contrary-didnt HRC do very well with youth in OH?)
26% of Democrats if he’s lucky
Berkley
50% Indeps
I, Karnak the Magnificent predict HRC gets the nom or McCranky sweeeeps…..
ginaswo – with all due respect, you give Obama too many states. I predict first ever 50 state sweep to McCranky
McCranky’s gonna wipe the floor with him.
And the Democratic Party will be the laughingstock of the country.
Thanks a lot, Obama.
They are not only sexist but apologists for racism and anti-semitism as well.
The post-morals generation. Hitler would have loved them.
None of this really matters when after next weeks testifyig is done at Rezko’s trial, and it is exposed about the dealings of Obama, with how Michelle got her hefty new promotion and pay increase and directoships with the pork barrel money Obama hid in his bill, along with the other sorted things, Obama will be history and off giving more speeches to just promote his books!
And for such a reason, Hillary Clinton today reminded delegates that their pledge does not bind them to vote for a candidate. What a shame we’re vetting this guy now and not a year ago.
Well it is being forced to be vetted now, the media never wanted to vet him this early, think about it!
Look at the news channel ratings how they skyrocketed just over the Chapter one of the Wright ordeal, when everything else is brought out, the news channels will be up the ass in revenue from advertising as each story breaks that most wh have checked Obama out already know!
The media is known for building up their sacrifice and they know damn well that they won’t get far if Clinton was the nominee from the get go, that is why they have been prime timing Obama!
Yeah, you thought Hillary will have a coronation, and you never had a Plan B after Iowa.
Hillary has been planning to run for 20 years, yet had an unprepared campaign organization, even thought she paid tens of millions for consultants. They arrogantly expected a shoo-in victory and when it didn’t happen they got desperate. Is this how she wants to run the country from day one?
Hey, you forgot to mention Lewinsky! You fail in the Bleat Obama Talking Points Contest of the evening- so close though! Please wait thirty days before trying again!
Typically, no relevant reply
hard to say. she may not have expected to see the antiwar vote and black vote combine that easily.
Nope, they had a plan “B”, but along came Michelle Obama who started the ball rolling on the race card which was a low blow for anyone, but should have been expected from Chicago sleeze political people, and funny how the sleeze brings out things like Lewinsky, but trash always goes for the lowest forms of existance to try winning!
But that is fine, when the trial revs up again next week, and Obama is brought into the light on his sleeze politics, his fall will continue as it is now!
Then he will make another “Major Speech” slipping in his promoting his books again for the ignorant to run out and buy to fill his pockets with more green again!
But even that is ok, since he is so clueless about most everything else, his continual implosion will simply do him in!
The guy of Positive Change has proven to the nation his real sort of change and funny how thinking people aren’t buying it anymore!
And should he make it through, all you need do is read the letters on McCain’s site about how honorable a person Obama is, McCain will tear him to shreds that even Obana;s goofy letter of explaining won’t do him any good once McCain gets into him!
Michelle Obama introduced the race question? Why would she do that? How did it benefit them?
And when did she do that? Responding to the Clintons?
I was talking to a group of black voters and told them it was “their time.” I remember seeing the clip and feeling a little antsy…I
Hell, I thought, isn’t it a woman’s time, too?
Then came Oprah with her phony inflection in SC; and Obama pacing around the stage talking about bamboozlement by whites.
Somewhere along the line, I heard John Edwards in the SC debate being called “the white guy” by Obama. Not just once, either.
From then on, it was downhill and the entire Obama crew started getting pretty crappy.
And then the lies started…Nafta, flip flops on Wright (not in church, in church, not in church), etc.
They make me sick.
Ironic, isn’t it, that the ONE used the race-baiting card to dog whistle to the Blacks in South Carolina.
It’ll backfire on him now that Americans have seen the Wright tapes and know his pastor’s teachings include calling the “white church” the Antichrist.
He’s not what they thought he was.
He’s toast.
You Shillaries believe anything you hear, don’t you. Well you know what? At one of Hillary’s rallies, I heard her call Obama a halfrican. Don’t believe me? Prove it!
Viola –
Your goats are calling you! The Oblamers are hating whites, Jews, gays and America and you need to be in the Virgin Islands with your 98 lb weakling.
Mel, so it was Michelle Obama who introduced the race card?
Why would she do that, how do they benefit?
And when did she do that? In response to the Clintons?
Well Sajo, since you seem to not know much about your chosen candidate and what is going, on, Michelle Obama introduced it in twisting the true statements by Bill Clinton on Obama’s Iraq stances as a “fairy tale” by introducing the race card which had nothing to do with what Clinton was talking about!
Anything else you need to know about your pathetic wanna be politician candiate who’s every stump and campaign rhetoric he has said he stands for has been proven totally different by his and his camapaigns actions?
That’s right. How she ran her campaign tells you everything you need to know about her management skills.
Oh you mean like Obama’s advicors running around the world telling the truth about Obama’s positions and the Obama saying everyone else is lying buut me, for I am Obama the chosen one………..here wanna toke?
“Oh you mean like Obama’s advicors running around the world telling the truth about Obama’s positions”
What’s an “advicor”?
That’s right. How she ran her campaign tells you everything you need to know about her management skills.
Hi Will
Imagine your first day at the White House..
Bill has just been elected and you guys have no idea what to do next.. It’s a blank slate and it’s pretty much publc knowledge that Hillary was a tremendous force in shaping the clinton administration. The so called media scandals like travel gate.. Hillary walked into that and realized these guys were lame and for reasons we won’t slander these guys but Hillary said get the hell out..took the heat and brought in her people as all good managers do. I bring my peps with me. Like a good coach does they bring in thier own folks that understand the game plan. That’s what good managers do.. Remember the Rose law firm billing records?
They couldn’t find the records out of millions of requests from Starr?
As a great( moral) exec..
When the resords were founds years later, Hill could have said..make those disappear..burn em..whatever.. But no, she said great news, turns those records over to Starr.. no file has ever been accused of missing or altered. Oh Will, She has plenty of executive experience..some would say the last couple of years of her 8 years in the white house, she was running things.Bill was so worried about dresses and impeachment, that Hill ran interferance, directed policy statements, constantly talked to the Senate
to make sure Bill didn’t get screwed. ( just an expression ) She has always been behind scenes as an exec.
Now Will.. Remember when i asked you about your first day at the White House?
Well she worked there for 8 friggin years. Imagine her managerial experience.
Hillary has the quals to run GE, Microsoft, GM or any major corp.
Your sitting at Sony one day and the phone rings and somebody says’ Hillary wants to be on the board’ If you didn’t say yes yu’d be out on the street with your stock options in hand.. Cause people would think you were friggin insane. Guess what? Hillary is a great manager and exec and people in the real world knows it.
Hoops..
The reply You make Below about Hillary is Powerful..So well state that Positive Images came to My Minds Eye..
You are right..It deepens the resapect I already have for such a Strong..remarkable Woman..
This should have been her Year..This should have been the Year of the Woman..
So far..its been the Chinese Year of the Rat..
and Rat Packs..
Ah..But ..Hillary is not a Quiter..Never has been..When told to Surrender she has Said..
“NUTS”..and they are amazed..asking..”Who is this Woman..How can this Be..”
Well..Perhaps The Obama camp thinks they have thier Goliath..They AUDACITY..(interesting word..look it Up..)
But..Hillary…Like Martin Luther King..Has a DREAM..and in The Art of dreaming..it says..”The Second attention is an Energetic Configuration of Awareness”..
Hillary Indeed has “The second attention” and It is My Hope..My prayer..That She reaches the Mountain Top..
She is capable and deserving of being a Good Shepherd..
That Oblamers hate white people, Jews, gays and America says it all for the rest of us.
Vote for Hillary!
“And for such a reason, Hillary Clinton today reminded delegates that their pledge does not bind them to vote for a candidate.”
That’s not going to make a bit of difference.
Good for HIllary!! The pledged delegates, by DNC rules, are NOT bound to Obama.
Many of those delegates’ voters are feeling buyers remorse for their Obama vote after seeing the Wright tapes.
And by DNC rules, those delegates have every right to turn away from Obama due to their voters’ feeling duped and bamboozled by his bullsh*t.
Hillary is giving them permission to follow the DNC rules.
today wright was supposed to come to a church here in FLORIDA..it was all over our news..he was supposed to be in Tampa area..and do 4 speeches at the church..they did not let him speak because of security concerns they announced tonight…they could not get enough security to assure his safety!!
I guess no one is happy with Obama and his ilk..here in Fla!!
Now i don’t think anyone should have safety concerns in this country..but it seems the *unity* Obama has been promising, is falling flat on its face!
Thanks for the update FlyArm…some retirement!
I agree on the first amendment.
Campaigning at Butler College in Indianapolis, an audience member asked (Chelsea Clinton) whether the Monica Lewinsky scandal had damaged her mother’s reputation.
“Wow, you’re the first person actually that’s ever asked me that question in the, I don’t know maybe, 70 college campuses I’ve now been to, and I do not think that is any of your business,” Clinton responded, appearing a bit surprised by the question. The crowd immediately cheered loudly at the response.
It was supposed to be the last question of the event, but Chelsea Clinton decided to take one more, saying, “I don’t think that should be the last question.”
“Campaigning at Butler College in Indianapolis, an audience member asked (Chelsea Clinton) whether the Monica Lewinsky scandal had damaged her mother’s reputation.”
“Campaigning at Butler College in Indianapolis, an audience member asked (Chelsea Clinton) whether the Monica Lewinsky scandal had damaged her mother’s reputation.”
Actually, her mother’s reputation, if she wants to be president, is certainly the voters’ business.
Today, quoting Mrs. Clinton’s remark trying to kneecap Obama about his pastor, she was said to have concluded: because you can choose your pastor. Then the CNN panel member said: Yes, and you can chose your husband…
Ouch!
As if choosing a husband 20 or 30 years ago EQUATES with choosing a pastor whose record is clear, when there a other pastors to choose from….What BULLSHIT from CNN and its panelist!
“As if choosing a husband 20 or 30 years ago EQUATES with choosing a pastor whose record is clear, when there a other pastors to choose from….What BULLSHIT from CNN and its panelist!”
Gloria, she has stayed with him for 33 years, through countless affairs, lies, and betrayals. There are also other husbands “to choose from”!
If people insist on picking apart the complex details of an intimate, hard-to-define relationship–like that one shares with one’s pastor, or one’s husband–it’s going to bite them back.
Will, will you check your e mail?
got your email, reading it now
You make a lot of excellent points. I will respond to your email point by point tomorrow, writing to the address you sent from, if that’s ok. Right now, my brain needs sleep! Thanks for writing.
Great.
G’night
As if CNN panelist were worth a speck….pathetic really.
She’s a bettr pol than her mom that’s for certain.
[...] After all, DEMOCRATS want Hillary as the nominee. [...]
You keep complaining about every progressive radio show. Why do you think they are all wrong, and only this small group going back and forth over and over again, is right?
Hey Larry! Look at all the trolls here tonight. You’ve got somebody nervous! Bwahahahahahahah! Keep it up!
Another way to determine how many Republicans crossed over to either vote for Clinton or Obama might be if a voter only voted for the top (presidential) race, but left all the other Democratic Party races blank.
This wouldn’t be exact (anymore than exit polling), but coupled with the exit polling might fill in some of the blanks, and tell us how many culture of corruption Republicans have been trying to “fix” the Democratic Party presidential primary in either Obama’s favor or Clinton’s favor, but with the true intention of trying to “fix” the November presidential election for the Republican candidate.
I forget now where it was, but I remember after, I believe the Texas primary, there was a report about exit polling showing Obama supporters statistically significantly more likely to not vote in the down ballot races.
Of course, this could be, in addition to Republican cross-overs, new (and particularly young) voters, caught up in the Obamania, not caring about the other races. [I say that as a 24 year old, who has voted in every primary and general election since turning 18, and always educated himself on each race ahead of time]
There’s been constant speculation that a Hillary nomination could lead to significant loses in down-ballot races. But I think the media and talking-heads, of course, overlook the potential downside of an Obama candidacy, which is so tied up in his individual persona, giving wins to the GOP because his voters don’t vote in the other state and local races.
Another interesting, though purely academic metric:
If the Democrats had a winner-take-all system to assign delegates (like the Republican system that has given McCain the nomination, which he would still be fighting Huckabee and probably Romney for in a apportioned system), by my calculations the current tallies, not including SD’s, MI or FL would be:
Hillary: 1430
Obama: 1257
Adding in the current SD count:
Hillary: 1680
Obama: 1471
For the sake of the argument, assuming the DNC followed its own actual rules (as it set up before the campaign started), that any state moving its primary before Feb. 5 would lose HALF it’s delegation, and that FL and MI don’t revote:
Hillary: 1836.5
Obama: 1471
And assuming the remaining states split, with Hillary winning PA, IN, WV and KY, and Obama taking NC, OR, MT & SD:
Hillary: 2145.5
Obama: 1669
Obviously, as I said, purely academic, as this isn’t how the Democrats allocate delegates. However, as a final thought: isn’t it slightly funny how, just a few months ago, we Democrats railed against the Republican attempt to make California’s Electoral College vote proportional, yet our own proportional apportionment system for our primaries have left us with two candidates, bitterly divided and nearly tied, possibly bolstering the Republicans’ GE chances?
I think ultimately, one of my biggest problems with Obama (aside from the NUMEROUS problems regarding experience, credibility, and particularly, religiosity) is this theme he espouses of Democratic-Independent-Republican-Unity, as if Democrats where equally to blame in the woes of politics and government. The problem with Democrats is, simply put, they haven’t been united enough AGAINST the Republicans. There’s a balkanization in the Democratic Party that has existed for most of the past century, particularly since the FDR-JFK-LBJ movement of the party towards progressivism.
We ultimately need someone who can unite all aspects of the party. Currently, each candidate has their respective constituencies which which they are strongest. Obama has the upper-class liberal elite, college students/young professionals, and african americans. Hillary has middle class/blue collar workers, women, seniors, and hispanics. Personally, though I belong in the former, as a young upper-middle-class college educated professional, I see the latter as the more important to winning in the General Election.
Originally, I had hoped Gore would run. And until he dropped out, I leaned towards Edwards. But now, my full support is behind Hillary. Should Obama prevail in the primary, I’m honestly unsure if I would vote in the presidential race come November. I would vote for my down-ticket races, but I just don’t know which I would prefer: waiting for a better Democrat in 2012, or potentially losing to a worse Republican in 2012 after a disasterous Obama administration.
Hillary CLinton sat down with Richard Richard Mellon Scaife…!!!!!!!!!!! and gave that rag newspaper credibility by talking to them…
Hell has froze over – does anyone remember what Scaife did and said about the Clintons…???
I defended Bill CLinton on countless occaisions – and she uses Scaife to hammer Obama. Have you no decency Hillary..? – I will never rebut another right-wing nut job when they accuse Hillary of killing Vince Fosterer, et al.
My God – Hillary is mad, she is completely mad.
Hmmmmm… how about some weird, freaky sci-fi amalgamation of the best of each candidate? You know sort of like “Manbearpig” without Al Gore…
ROFLMAO
And now a moment for a grain of salt.
I would say “So Who Do the DEMOCRATS Want for a Nominee?” remains an unanswered question.
The uniqueness of this campaign is it’s length over time; starting way back in ‘07. Opinions of many have changed over this long period and will continue to do so.
Even if we factored in trends of Democrats in early primaries who would now change their vote if they could, we still wouldn’t be able to predict the history of the future.
See the story of “Dewey Defeats Truman” at:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/historyofus/web13/segment5_p.html
and note that even Truman himself thought he’d lost to Dewey until well into the morning AFTER the election.
At the end of the day (campaign), there’s always one more thing. So the question really has to be, who does each one of us really want to represent our best interest? In spite of our technology, basing a vote on second-guessing the future still has very limited value.
Can’t read this stuff any more. This site has been invaded by bloggers who persist in straying from the subject and have reduced the conversation to pointless vitriol.
If you are an Obama supporter and wish to have an intellingent discussion, then let’s have a lively debate.
If not, I can only assume that you have tired of the Obama love at the other sites and are just looking for an argument.
Will, Viola, Kevin et al-If you don’t like Hillary supporters, then go away.