ALTERed State of Unconsciousness
By PaganPower on May 22, 2008 at 9:32 PM in Barack Obama, Florida, Hillary Clinton, Michigan, Newsweek, Popular Vote
One thing I have had to learn to accept during this nomination process is that for some reason the Cultists just keep getting stupider. It must be a side effect from all the Cult-Aide they have imbibed. Maybe it is like absinthe. It gives you a warm fuzzy feeling all over and lifts you with a sense of euphoria. Only behind the scenes it is rotting you from the inside out.
Today’s dumber than hell example is a so-called journalist named Jonathan Alter of Newsweek. Considering that Newsweek was stupid enough to hire that ass Kos I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised if another journalist on the staff was equally as inept and clueless.
Alter begins his exercise in stupidity stating that Hillary is pandering for the popular vote. Something that Alter considers poison.
While she knows that the nomination is determined by delegates, Hillary insists on saying at every opportunity that she is winning the popular vote. And she has now taken to touting the new HBO movie “Recount,” which chronicles the Florida fiasco of eight years ago. Everyone can agree that the primary calendar needs reform. But popular-vote pandering is poison for Democrats.
According to Alter it is a bad thing to remind people what happens when the will of the people is not recognized. He also seems to be under the misguided assumption that reminding people of the Florida fiasco will somehow make uniting the Democratic party all the harder.
I wouldn’t expect a simpleton like Alter to get this, but it is people like him and his cohorts that are making it nearly impossible for the Democratic party to unite.
But it isn’t enough for this wacko to spout the above nonsense. He goes on to tell another tall tale: Hillary isn’t leading in the popular vote. And I had thought I had heard everything. See what I mean though? Stupider by the day. Kind of hard to watch happen.
After Kentucky and Oregon, Obama has an official popular vote lead of 449,486.
Isn’t that odd? I wonder where he gets his numbers? La La Land? But wait. It gets even better. Alter makes the claim that we must also take into consideration the “votes” of the caucus states. Never mind that caucus states do not vote. Never mind that caucuses are the most undemocratic form of representation outside of an actual fascist regimes. According to Alter, by god they count.
Adding in the unofficial tally from caucus states, as estimated by realclearpolitics.com based on official caucus turnout and the number of local delegates selected at the precinct level, that gives Obama a lead of 559,708.
Oh really? That is some fancy math Alter has got there. And so nice of him to display one of the blatant characteristics of all Cultists. He decides to just redefine what a caucus is so it will benefit his boy Barack. But should we expect anything less? I sure don’t.
Begrudgingly Alter finally admits that Hillary won the popular votes in Michigan and Florida. And believe it or not he says that the votes should count. And he concludes that now Hillary leads in the popular vote. But don’t let that hoodwink you. Read on….
Not so fast. If the Democratic National Committee completes its expected settlement on May 31, Florida and Michigan will each get half of their votes counted. Translated to popular votes, that would subtract about 325,000 votes from Hillary, putting Obama back into the lead.
I willingly admit that I am not a lawyer. But I have read the DNC rules and no where in the rules does it state that a single vote would be considered anything less than what it is. In other words all votes count. Fully. Delegates are the only thing that can change according to the rules.
Unsatisfied with demonstrating how completely out of touch with reality Alter is he coaxes us further into his delusion. Buckle up folks. This is one wild ride.
Beyond not being official numbers, there’s another problem with counting Michigan in these totals. Obama wasn’t on the ballot there. You can say this was his own choice, but that doesn’t change the fact that had he been on the Michigan ballot he would have received a lot of popular votes. How many?
Try 238,168. That’s the number of Michiganders who voted for “uncommitted.” Were they possibly genuinely abstaining? Maybe a few hundred of them at most. The rest were clearly Obama supporters who launched a grass-roots campaign. Everyone in Michigan knew on January 15 that a vote for “uncommitted” was a vote for Obama.
That means that by a generous definition of popular votes (and remember, Clinton wants to enfranchise as many people as possible in her count), Obama leads by about 166,000 votes.
See how easily Alter takes us back to La La Land where it is Obama that is leading in the popular vote? You have to respect psychopaths. They try their darnedest to get you to believe their madness is reality.
Correct me if I am wrong, but weren’t there four candidates that withdrew their names from the Michigan primary? And even so, since when can someone declare they are eligible for votes when they intentionally took their name off the ballot? I learned in grade school that if my name wasn’t on a ballot no one could vote for me. I wasn’t the smartest student. But I got that. Apparently I was smarter way back then than Alter is now.
Alter saves his best/worst delusion for last.
If the Obama people have any sense, they will demand in their negotiations with the Clintonites that Hillary cease and desist in her specious claim to have won the most popular votes.
Given that more than 35 million voters took part in the Democratic primaries and caucuses, the math games on both sides look awfully silly. Everyone should agree to call it a tie.
Have the Obama Cult DEMAND anything from Hillary and her supporters? Surely this guy is a lobotomy waiting to happen. We have heard all the demands from that crowd that we will put up with or listen to. Instead we have our own demand. We demand that journalists report truth. And that Newsweek institute a drug testing policy. Clearly this guy Alter is wacked out of his mind on something.
(Release: November 13)
on sale for only $16.95.
has a spatula.)
8% Off at $11.95, with a rare five-star ranking by 294 customers: 
And check out these: 
("This crazy redhead is on to something. Her pink Rambler story alone is worth the price of the book," writes 
- “Richard Sale’s reportage on Washington, the CIA, the American armed forces, and foreign intrigue has created a perfect background for this account of the steady growth of President Clinton as a master of the game of nations.”--W. Patrick Lang, former head of Middle East Operations, DIA
"Anne C. Heller's stunning biography of Ayn Rand" uses a "plethora of newly unearthed research and fresh insight."
jonathan alter has deep seated issues because he’s little and ugly and his hair plugs aren’t rooting.
He’s a very unhappy man.
I leave him alone because I feel sorry for him.
I didn’t mention anything about his physical features because he looked so hopeless. But yeah, he has some issues.
Thank-you for your analysis of the popular vote issue in the Democratic primary and your support of counting all the votes of Florida and Michigan. Not to count these votes is nothing less than disenfranchisement of a significant number of American voters and further manipulation of the primary by the DNC and others to assure that their candidate would win the nomination.
This is the same self loving, smug, Hillary hating idiot that stated that Hillary should quit the race, her time was over, before the Feb. 5 Super Tuesday vote. Just yesterday, Alter was demeaning Hillary as usual by saying she should quit already, the democratic party doesn’t want her and she looks pathetic begging for votes. Alter lives in that alternate Obama reality, reserved for self loving, sociopathic narcissists like Obama.
Alter begs for something and it ain’t votes.
Wasn’t Alter one of Doug Feith’s analysts on Iraq?
Jonathan Alter has had cancer for a couple of years.
It’s very sad. But, it’s also sad that Newsweek let’s him be so influential when he clearly is not the same man he was. He is now mean and non-sensical.
It’s just sad all the way around.
I didn’t know anything about his cancer problems. I don’t disparage anyone with health issues. But it doesn’t give him the right to be a complete jerk either.
Some Michigan citizens were so outraged that their votes wouldn’t count in the Democratic Primary that they crossed over and protest voted in the Republican Primary. Obama and Edwards did a great disservice to their supporters by deserting them like they did by removing their names from the ballot. It’s a travesty that the rules were changed just for Michigan and Florida and not for Iowa, South Carolina and New Hampshire (who also moved their dates).
alter is an idiot. pure hate hillary will be 44
Hummmm. Maybe we should leave it to people to decide who has the “popular vote.” You know, the ones that can still count. I know we’re living in a parallel universe now, where up is down and wrong is right. But doesn’t 1+1 still equal 2. Guess not. Obviously, I’m in need of re-education. Guess I better pack my bags for the camp.
I must say, the first headline about being barred from the “progressive party,” and how devotees “will remember,” left me absolutely speechless. And who’s wearing the pointy hats?
That Kool-aid is getting mighty potent. Toxic, I’d say.
follow the Chicago liberal mafia.
Alter’s mom Joanne is a long time chicago pol,
lakefront liberal, of whom he wrote in the
Newsweek edition on women and the election,
that she is an Obama person.
Jacob Weisberg’s mom, Lois, is the Cultural
Czarina of the City government.
they were all young when reading at the altar
of mr. axelrove.
did we think that they were going to be objective
in this fight? placed to do a job, job done.
Didn’t someone clue Alter into the fact that the Clinton argument re: the popular vote is to sway SD’s to endorse her, so she reaches the DELEGATE count? She is not claiming she wins the nomination because of the popular vote. My God, there are so many “journalists” out there with severe Clinton Derangement Syndrome (CDS). They’re like a pack of rabid raccoons. If we had Hillary’s UHC plan, they could all get there rabies shots for free!
Well the fact someone says he has cancer makes me have some sympathy for him now and some reasoning as to his “mental state”
he’s on chemo and other drugs – confused
like how Kennedy’s sad diagnosis is also evidence of someone that would be – confused
I really think there’s alot of truth to what you say. Alter’s voice was once a rational and reasoned one, in my opinion.
What Alter doesn’t get is that this bizarro primary system makes the Dem Pary look bad –cross-eyed, bipolar, pulled in 100 different directions. That bad impression is made even worse by the MI-FL fiasco. And when did the party go cross-eyed? After McGovern lost 49 states and the party cooked up this nutty system to counter the William Ayers wing.
I ask myself — would I trust the Executive Branch to the party of chaos and confusion? No.
All Alter does is remind voters, day after day, how screwed up this party has become under ultra-left wing influence. He’s not helping.
Really interesting blog you have there. Here is a link for others to follow:
Activism Works
NHPR’s Laura Knoy: “So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I’m off the ballot?”
Hillary Clinton: “Well, you know, It’s clear, this election they’re having is not going to count for anything”
You leaving troll poop on an old thread now?
Face this reality: Hillary is still standing and will make it all the way to the convention. And you are not on the rules committee so scream and holler all you want.
Do you have anything to say about the hypocrisy of her stance now given the statement she made above?
What does any of what you have quoted have to do with the fact that Hillary attempted to get revotes in both states and Obama blocked those efforts?
The facts PROVE that Obama supports disenfranchising 2.3 million American voters.
Obama and Edwards did no service to the electorate by removing their names from the ballon in Michigan.
Hillary, however, let their voices be heard.
Jonathan Alter is a fool with a pincushion for a head.
I find the level of “progressive” hypocrisy unbelievable.
I thought that liberals used to complain that the media was biased, and they USED to encourage independent thought and critical analysis.
Reason and logic were the antidote to propaganda and catchy slogans.
It seems like progressives have become something akin to The Blob–a slimy mass of unthinking matter that hopes to overwhelm all of us not with reason and logic, but rather with its sheer mass.
When the so-called progressives have to skateboard to their Ivory Towers because Obama drove gas prices up to $25 a gallon, I guess that they’ll either have to admit they were wrong, or that maybe, just maybe, Obama was not God after all.
agree with your comment about the misuse of the word “progressive.” the so-called progressives are the most repressive group i’ve encountered in years. this is why i hope we are smart enough to never use that word in connection with the party we create to replace the obviously dying democratic party.
obama, dean, kerry, kennedy, pelosi, et al, have hijacked the democratic party and it is no longer actually democratic. unless hillary is nominated, their efforts at kicking us out will succeed. i don’t know if independent is the right name, or something else, but “progressive” won’t do, as the word is now associated with the worst of the dkos, etc., shitheads.
in the meantime, hillary or mccain. no other option.
The blob will never admit it was wrong. It will defend Obama no matter what he does should he get the presidency. Much later, when he is a complete and utter failure, has inflicted major damage and is leaving the political scene for good, the blob will pretend it never voted for him and never really liked him to begin with. Then the blob will fracture and dissolve.
That is what happened to the Dubya Keyboard Brigade, and the Obamabots remind me so much of them. Of course there will be a few diehard bots who will forever think Obama is king.
The whole thing is such a disappointment!
They continously argue for Red states and caucus states over the more important facts of actual states that count in a General.
They can pretend the primary and general are separate but they cannot claim they are equal.
It’s all about the general. This test run is to determine who is still standing at the end as the strongest most viable candidate in the general.
If people had wide access to research on ob before they cast their votes the numbers would be clear.
It is not about the math, it is about winning.
Anybody see Savagepolitics.com lately? They have up two new GOP attack ads about Obama. They are hitting him hard on his gun flip flop – as they should and on his economy gaffes which show him trying to speak about something he clearly doesn’t understand. He is not presidential and they will expose him for the sham he is. I can just nod and agree with the GOP. Too bad the voters on the dem side didn’t vet him before hand and reject him.
ob’s history will bite him in the ass as they rake him over the coals with his own words and deeds.
We know how feeble ob is. Hillary is the only viable candidate – no matter what the math or the pundit fools or the so-called superdelegates say.
More MSM Garbage – this time coming from the son of a Chicago pol who has cancer.
Left wing scamming of the public to match anything the right-wing Bushies put out. Good analogy.
I canceled my subscription to Newsweek after Hillary won in New Hampshire, and the Newsweek cover was a photo of Obama with articles about why he won.
And particularly because of the Alter piece explaining why us leading edge baby boomers like the Clintons should step aside, and let the young Obama followers and fainters take over the party. (Does not apply to younger bbs, like Alter.)
And while the message was making its way through the subscription maze, Anna Quinlen, whom I love dearly, could not find the courage to tell him where to shove it.
I hoped they were inundated with cancellations.
I have a lot of respect for this site, so please respect that I disagree with this attitude.
I liked Hillary – I voted for her in the CA primary and was happy that she won, and feel pretty clear about the pros and cons of both of them. But I’ve since switched my support to Obama (no, I don’t think he’s “king”), for many of the reasons stated (and derided) here. However, I really think that whole “cultist”, “kool-aid, etc language is way off. I’m no cultist, nor do I hate women btw. If my choosing “the other guy” makes you think that then perhaps you need to take some deep breathes and walk around for a bit. It is possible for people to prefer Obama and not be out to destroy you.
On the counts, these arguments just don’t hold water and I’m surprised that normally very smart people like you repeat them. Whether we like them or not everybody – including Hillary – agreed to them ahead of time and making up exceptions midstream (”caucuses don’t count”, “MI voters deserved to be heard”) doesn’t fly in a rational process. Of *course* all voters deserve to be heard, but what’s a fair method? Simply applying the counts as-is doesn’t work because they weren’t both on the ballot (you can’t really know what the voters are saying, which IS what you want, right?). And granted caucuses are screwy – but they’ve been used for years and suddenly she’s making the case they shouldn’t be counted, just for her? On what planet does that makes sense?
Here’s the acid test: if Obama gets the nomination will you sit out the election or vote for McCain? If the answer is “yes” then your thinking has gone off the deep end. For myself, if Hillary manages to manipulate the process and snag the nomination, I would be angry and disappointed – but I’d vote for her in the general.
You are wrong on what holds water. What holds water are DNC rules and the Law. While it has been shown that the courts will not override DNC rules, the issue of equal treatment is definitely a legal issue. The Law is going to have no problem comprehending Equal Treatment for All States. This has nothing to do with senators or big shots who agreed, didn’t agree or anything in between. It has more to do with Democracy and the right of every state to be treated equally. The fact is, three states were given waivers and two were punished. The two that were punished now have a strong case to show that they were arbitrariy not given Equal Treatment. That’s where the courts rightfully have jurisdiction. Now, either those three states that were given waivers have their delegates and vote counts removed–or Florida and Michigan have theirs seated.
would you like some reliable numbers on the democratic primary totals?
go to
http://www.diversityj.com/ElectionResults2008Primary.html
senator clinton is ahead in the popular vote by about 150,000 votes. she should add to that total in the upcoming primary in puerto rico.
j. alter is a corporate media journalist. these journalist have no obligation to describe reality when they write or speak.
their editors and publishers allow and encourage them to practice fantasy journalism.
and they do.
[...] I see Jonathan Alter is now a moron. [...]
How many times have I heard Obama describe during his standard, unchanging stump speech how he “upset” the Detroit auto workers by telling them the “hard truth” that the reason they weren’t selling cars wasn’t NAFTA but that their product was crap. “they weren’t too happy.. heh heh”.. Could have been a good reason to pull off the MI ballot.
” I liked Hillary – I voted for her in the CA primary and was happy that she won, and feel pretty clear about the pros and cons of both of them. But I’ve since switched my support to Obama (no, I don’t think he’s “king”), for many of the reasons stated (and derided) here. However, I really think that whole “cultist”, “kool-aid, etc language is way off. I’m no cultist, nor do I hate women btw. If my choosing “the other guy” makes you think that then perhaps you need to take some deep breathes and walk around for a bit. It is possible for people to prefer Obama and not be out to destroy you.”
Ok I can now respond if you think my vote for a white candidate who I think is more qualified makes me a racist and that I hate blacks you are way off track. I will not vote for a democratic nominee just because it is politically correct to,many people raise concerns about his anti-American sentiments. Using the race card to try to intimidate voters to vote for a black candidate is not a good reason for voting for him.There are many things I don’t agree with in terms of Our current state of affairs or what Bush is doing does that make me hate my country no, but I know we can do a lot better and need to learn from our past mistakes. I am racist if I don’t vote for Obama doesn’t hold water, I had considered him myself, but when you throw the race card in and accuse those who support white candidates as racist, perhaps you could see how it would likely backfire. What if I said if you don’t vote for Hillary you are a misogynist, woman hater. Or if you are black and only vote for Obama based on the color of his skin you could very well be accused of racism as well. This race things is dividing the country.It has created a big wedge with the democratic voters.No one can coerce me into voting for someone period, I want to know where they stand on issues, will they best represent the interests of our country or are they just going to create more divisiveness.Sorry if I am not politically correct here, but I am really not worried ,people can interpret things I say however they want to, and I certainly don’t need approval from the Obama camp to feel ok about myself as a person, get it? Think about this, would you vote for someone because of some superficial . external quality like being blue-eyed or blond hair?Isn’t that a duuuhhhh obvious one?Hey maybe I should just vote for Obama because he wears nice suits or is a great speech maker… But can he be the best person to represent our country?
Another thing I support your freedom to choose the candidate you want to vote for , even though it may not be my choice,I’m not saying anything like for you to join with the Hillary side… but don’t infringe upon my right to vote for the candidate I want to. Nor will I strong arm you and say if you don’t come to my side and way of looking at things that you must be destroying the democratic party.
I really don’t think I implied this at all, nor do I think it. Did I write something to give that impression? My apologies if so.
What’s great about BOTH these candidates is that neither – as far as I can tell and inflamed rhetoric aside – is being hindered much by their gender or race. If anything it raises the excitement about both of them. Sure there are niche groups and regions at either end but on balance it helps them both (I think). Which is great since Hillary can’t help being white, and Barack can’t help being male… (ok, lame joke there).
Anyone on either side who spends energy on the “woe is us, our candidate is discriminated against because he/she is woman/black!” is wasting time and energy. Not to dismiss areas where there ARE issues, I just don’t think it’s a card worth playing for either side.
OK, to be more precise, there are some assholes who dismiss Hillary because she’s a woman, and there are some areas that will never vote for a black person.
Come November, one group or the other will have to deal with it.
Jonathan Alter. Any grown man, much less one allegedly in journalism, who goes by Jonathan instead of a nickname or Jon or John is a putz.
In the real world he’d get his ass kicked. At a minimum it shows that he has no friends.
Was he named after a damn seagull?
Why would anyone give a shit what someone still going by Jonathan has to say or do? Listen to real people folks!
Also let’s look at some of the issues with some emotional maturity and clarity shall we?
People who support Hillary basically are concerned with job loss, the economy, the deficit,medical care, losing their homes, outsourcing of jobs overseas, corruption in the government, education, and many other things.
Is there a legitimate concern about racial inequality,yes, but this also applies to women and other minorities as well. Do blacks have legitimate concerns, absolutely! They want a fair shake and say in the system and society we live in too ,and yes in many ways they feel like many of the blue collared workers and middle class Americans , the poor and disabled the vets, the elderly do …that we are left out of the system or I should say locked out due to a system that too often gives preferential treatment to those who have money and power and status and of course to special interests and lobbyists,big business interests, and have kicked the average American to the curb.
People cannot live if they are unemployed, if their jobs are outsourced, people can’t live if the cost of living is out of range with how they are able to live and survive. Medical care and insurance has skyrocketed, people are not only being taxed to death, but since banking deregulation, people have been given the shaft because now banks and credit card companies can stick you with 35% interest rate even if your credit is good and you’ve paid bills on time. There is no longer job security, Workers rights have been eroded,aand because of the war in Iraq , we have a deficit that is astronomical.If people can barely afford to put food on the table, or work three jobs to stay afloat, or have other issues and concerns, do you honestly think they are sitting around thinking about how they can get rid of Obama because he is black? Or do they have concern as to what he will do if he is president , whether he will create more division, and not be experienced enough to handle our current multiple crisis’s. If the presidential race was just about racial issues , doesn’t that seem to be out of sync with reality when we are dealing with so many issues and concerns today, that to just focus on one thing is ignoring the greater concerns of ALL Americans?
No rational person disputes this. No rational person (that I’m aware of) thinks this election is just about ‘race issues’. Instead it’s about the economy, about Iraq and the greater Middle East, about energy policy, national security – all that good stuff worth getting passionate about.
Not to get into parsing ‘he said she said’ arguments, but I’m supporting Obama precisely because I believe now that he’ll be much better than Clinton on those issues. “Race” is a red herring here.
Believe me, this position was slow in coming, and painful too; I had been a very enthusiastic fan of both the Clintons.
Also consider this.. Many blacks are among the working poor,it is estimated that a million black children live in poverty, and there are also the white working poor and other minorities follow suite,low wages , lack of medical care, poor education, or lack of quality education, high college tuition makes the dream for many poor and middle class Americans unable to obtain this dream for their children. I’ve listened to people’s stories… take the high cost of gasoline and diesel fuels, truckers have making a living because of these price hikes, they are the ones who transport good across the country. A couple who were both disabled could no longer afford to pay their rent were evicted, a man who lost a well paying job in the field of technology, lost his home , became homeless and his children are living with his in-laws, our vets are not getting the care and benefits they need, the list goes on.Hillary signed a bill just recently to get more help for our troops who are suffering from brain injury.
Double standards… now we all know if someone makes racial slurs on tv such as the likes of Imus, there is a public outcry , they wanted his head on the platter so to speak . but when it comes to women bashing by the media pundits how does that make it more acceptable, even one of them who was black was going along with it… No out cry, because when Hillary brought the subject up she was ridiculed and attacked by the media.. so much for unbiased and fair reporting.What is strange is some women jumped on board and even said she shouldn’t make such statements like she made, but it’s ok for Obama and his supporters to cry foul when they perceive white voters as racist? Don’t tell me that women are less significant in terms of discriminatory practices compared to blacks, women were not given the right to vote until after blacks were emancipated and given the right. Women have been discriminated against through out history. Thye were once considered the property of man(sound familar) Even today many women are disenfranchised (and yes I will use that term even if it is politically incorrect and people object to it) Weren’t given the right to own property , could be legally beaten by their husbands and so on. Women were even burned at the stake for being witches earlier in history. And if you look throughout the world women still don’t have rights, look at Saudi Arabia, And other countries, the Chinese even buried their female children because they wanted male offspring, heinous acts have been committed against women throughout time as well.Rape, torture among those.In Saudi Arabia, a 11 year old girl was condemned to death when she was raped by her brother’s friends.Domestic violence and assaults on women are a problem here in the US, go to a woman’s shelter and they even have waiting lists.Women and young girls are even sold into prostitution in countries like Thailand, and other countries. Women were killed or beaten for not being covered completely head to toe by the Taliban.So it is ok to minimize this , and Hillary is just stirring up trouble when she speaks up about how political pundits are acting like immature children and picking a woman apart. One said ,”She reminds me of a nagging wife “You might want to think about he might treat he the way.
Someone also on this forum remarked about how Obama introduced his wife and children , by saying” Don’t you think I have a good looking wife and kids?” A arm ornament by the way, being defined in terms of how she looks? Yeesh.
Oh by the way, do you know the true meaning of “political correctness”? CENSORSHIP of free speech, ideas and the rights of people to communicate their honest opinions and views.People can always be offended by something take it out of context and twist things around and distort things.How many words of Senator Clinton’s were taken completely out of context??? Of course this can be done to anyone including senator Obama.