Appeasement at Tehran?
By Bud White on May 24, 2008 at 10:32 AM in Al Qaeda, Anti-Semitism, Barack Obama, Clinton, Counterterrorism, Hillary Clinton, Iran, Israel, John F. Kennedy, Terrorism
The post below was written by Mary Jo Kopechne, PhD, with assistance from Bud White:
Upon being discharged from the Navy, John F. Kennedy worked briefly for the Hearst newspapers covering the newly formed United Nations. He wrote to a friend from San Francisco:
When I think of all those gallant acts that I have seen…it would be a very easy thing to feel disappointed…You have seen battlefields where sacrifice was the order of the day and to compare that sacrifice to the timidity and selfishness of the nations gathered at San Francisco must inevitably be disillusioning.
As a young man, Kennedy understood the realities of realpolitik, the idea that nations work primarily for their own self-interests. To use the parlance of today, Obama’s notion of meeting with your enemies without preconditions is so breathtakingly naive and dangerous that it raises serious concerns about his judgment.
In the May 22nd, op-ed piece from the NYT:
In his inaugural address, President John F. Kennedy expressed in two eloquent sentences, often invoked by Barack Obama, a policy that turned out to be one of his presidency’s — indeed one of the cold war’s — most consequential: “Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate.
On the same day but in a different article, the Times points out that Obama is currently traveling through Florida, where he knows he has problems, and the people interviewed for their piece told the Times:
…they had reservations about Mr. Obama’s stated willingness to negotiate with Iran — whose nuclear ambitions and Holocaust-denying president trigger even starker fears among Jews than intifada uprisings and suicide bombings.
When JFK attempted direct talks in Vienna with Khrushchev, without any preconditions, we all held our breath. Kennedy initially believed he could reason with Khrushchev, while the Soviet leader wanted to debate the merits of communism over capitalism, and insisted that he would sign an agreement with East Germany which in effect would block American access to Berlin.
Khrushchev threatened Kennedy:
If the US wants war, that’s its problem. It’s up to the US to decide whether there will be war or peace. The decision to sign a peace treaty is firm and irrevocable, and the Soviet Union will sign it in December if the US refuses an interim agreement.
To which Kennedy replied:
“Then, Mr. Chairman, there will be a war. It will be a cold, long winter.”
But Obama seems to have forgotten what he may have learned in history class: the negotiations between Kennedy and Khrushchev failed miserably, creating the untenable threat of nuclear war. The Op-ed points to this:
Senator Obama defended his position by again enlisting Kennedy’s legacy: “If George Bush and John McCain have a problem with direct diplomacy led by the president of the United States, then they can explain why they have a problem with John F. Kennedy, because that’s what he did with Khrushchev.”
Iran is perhaps a more perplexing threat than the USSR was when a naïve Kennedy entered into failed negotiations. According to Alan Derschowitz, Israelis fear Iran “could be the first suicide nation, a nation that would destroy itself to destroy the Jewish nation.”
The building of the Berlin Wall not only signified the failure of those negotiations, it also meant we lived in constant fear of attack. In fact, Kennedy’s meeting with Khrushchev only heightened the tension between the USSR and the US, and created the reputation worldwide that the US was putting her allies in danger. We lived on the razor’s edge during that time, aware that Khrushchev found Kennedy “too intelligent and too weak.”
It was after the meeting between the two that Khrushchev decided to place nuclear missiles in Cuba.
As Thrall and Wilkens make clear in their Op-Ed:
But Kennedy’s one presidential meeting with Nikita Khrushchev, the Soviet premier, suggests that there are legitimate reasons to fear negotiating with one’s adversaries. Although Kennedy was keenly aware of some of the risks of such meetings — his Harvard thesis was titled “Appeasement at Munich” — he embarked on a summit meeting with Khrushchev in Vienna in June 1961, a move that would be recorded as one of the more self-destructive American actions of the cold war, and one that contributed to the most dangerous crisis of the nuclear age.
Khrushchev famously shouted, “We will bury you.” Later, he said, “I once got in trouble for saying, ‘We will bury you.’ Of course, we will not bury you with a shovel. Your own working class will bury you.” Words have consequences.
In the same vein but towards Israel, Ahmadinejad said:
Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world
In order to assure the Jewish community that he will defend Israel, Obama is now portraying himself as a quasi Jew. According to Kantor in the Times piece:
Now the half-Kenyan-by-way-of-Hawaii candidate, who only recently completed a beer-and-bowling tour to impress blue-collar Midwesterners, has committed more fully to showing off his inner Jew. He recently made a surprise speech at the Israeli Embassy in Washington, and, in the interview with Mr. Goldberg, he told stories about a long-lost Jewish summer camp counselor who taught him about Israel and recalled reading Leon Uris and Philip Roth, arguably opposite poles of American-Jewish fiction.
However, according to Florida Rabbi Ruvi New: “It’s all going to boil down to a few old Jews in Century Village,” he added, referring to a nearby retirement community.
If the Rabbi is correct, then Obama’s plans for direct negotiations with Ahmadinejad may cost him the older Jews in Florida. “The people here, liberal people, will not vote for Obama because of his attitude towards Israel,” says Ms. Weitz, 83.
More importantly, however, is what it may cost the world. We know that Obama is no JFK. And we know that JFK’s failed negotiations with the Soviet Union put the US, and the world, in danger of nuclear war. Dershowitz may be correct about Iran as the first suicide nation. But he may be wrong that they would destroy only Israel.
If Barack Obama wants to follow in Kennedy’s footsteps, he should heed the lesson that Kennedy learned in his first year in office: sometimes there is good reason to fear to negotiate.
Hillary Clinton has the experience and wisdom that prevents her from promising to negotiate with terrorists or with rogue nations without preconditions. Obama’s bravado and lack of experience could bring our allies into imminent danger.
Kennedy’s greatest triumph–after learning a bitter lesson in Vienna–was the Limited Nuclear Test Ban Treaty (LNTBT). It was achieved by the United States first unilaterally ending its own tests and then having the seasoned diplomat and Soviet hand, Averell Harriman, negotiate with the Soviets, an obviously more effective approach than immediate, direct talks at the highest levels. As Kennedy said at American University when announcing the LNTBT:
Let us re-examine our attitude toward the Cold War, remembering that we are not engaged in a debate, seeking to pile up debating points. We are not here distributing blame or pointing the finger of judgment. We must deal with the world as it is, and not as it might have been had history of the last eighteen years been different.
(Release: November 13)
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1st..
I knew John F. Kennedy and bambi can quote him till the cows come how ..he is no JFK
here’s the ’surprise’ poll from the la times:
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-me-poll24-2008may24,0,6353526.story
not quite what you were hoping for…
sorry …cows come home
I’d like to read this article but the whole ” Mary Jo Kopechne, PhD,” thing turns me off.
I have to agree. This name is creepy and in poor taste. It is disrespectful to her and any Deomcrats who have some sensibilities left.
As I tell my students, never read anything if the author’s name is a turn off…
Great article Bud White and Mary Jo Kopechne PHd.
Iran is an issue that will not go away.
Same with BO’s ignorance of history.
You worked for the Phd and respectfully why do you say that to your students?
I don’t, TeakWoodKite. I was being sarcastic. Whining make me cranky.
What I actually tell my students is that you don’t have to like something to read and learn from it.
Thanks, I’m glad you liked it. Bud did lots of work on it.
OH
I read the title, then the article, the look to who wrote the piece as reference.
BO does not even posses “An Indexed Mind”…
There so MUCH to learn in any discipline that knowing where to look for it is a critical skill. BO has gone out of his way to tell it the public he did not learn this.
Are you kidding me….Maybe she goes by that name in tribute to the poor girl….often times forgotten in the continuing lionization of St. Teddy ?
You know maybe St. Teddy was able to partially redeem himself through a long legislative career…BUT HE HAS NEVER SATISFACTORILY MADE AMENDS FOR CHAPPAQUIDICK AND HE GOT OFF SCOTT FREE….PERIOD
Thanks WCA, for coming to my defense. In fact, what you say is true. Ted Kennedy waited 14 hours after swimming to shore to report the accident. This link from an off-beat site has a very touching quote from MJK’s mother, for whom she was the only child.
http://www.cosmicbaseball.com/kopechn7.html
That said, many people won’t read a longish, fact-based piece on Foreign Affairs and will use any excuse to avoid it. This piece is not filled with gossip or vitriol, and is a bit academic.
But No Quarter has many informed readers who I hope find Obama’s outlandish comparison interesting.
Thanks Mary Jo. It was an excellent read.
Obama is scrawny like Kennedy, they have that in common.
Yeah, at least with JFK, we knew he had Addison’s disease and admired him for valiantly serving as President despite his medical condition. You are right, Obama is skinny. Why won’t Obama release his medical records? Any speculations why? Is Obama fit to serve?
Please recognize that cocaine use along with using all of its substitutes - amphetimines, speed, etc - tends to “skinny you out” so to speak and it is possible there is something in there where we would find some drug rehab stuff.
Okay, I’m replying to my own comment… but I have to tell you “American sawbuck” your “the cows do come home” addition was the first good out loud laugh I’ve had in reference to anything Obama for a looong time.
Second response to the above:
What makes anyone think he is going to “serve”? I do believe he is joyfully like GWB in that regard: he has no intention of ever serving anyone but himself (or most likely Michelle).
But going back to the drugs: why are we all looking for some reason for utterly unreasonable (close to unreal) behavior when in most people we would call this sociopathology or delusion or schizophrenia or borderline personality, etc.???
Why do we accept politicians with such behavior clearly displayed and we refuse to call it what it is? Oh, wait I forgot for a moment - actually several minutes - that it was because he was black and that makes me a racist. This is the great delusion that runs the whole thing. OMG
Maybe Obama can’t pass the drug screen. LMFAO!
I am sure Obama never learned about this in history class. When the media made a myth out of Kennedy after his assassination, negative things about his administration were ignored. (Ditto for Reagan.) That kind of “history” does our coutry a grave disservice. Kennedy’s naivete brought the world to the brink of a nuclear war. That is a lesson that everyone needs to hear, especially now that our culture has decided that knowledge and experience do not count. We need truth, not fairy tales.
Like Hillary said -
“the presidency is not an internship.”
Bush, seeming incompetent, has made people falsely believe that an idiot can run the show. This is not American Idol we’re voting for. Obama has no understanding of American or other governments. He is a serious danger because of his inexperience and naivete. I will always put country ahead of party - since what difference does Roe v. Wade make when we will all be nuclearly annihilated? Unlike Obamabots, we understand priorities and putting country ahead of false messiahs.
With regards to Roe v Wade, anyone McCain desires to put on the supreme court must be approved by Congress.
The very idea that Obama could convince the Florida Jewish older voters is so funny to me. Not in his lifetime, nevermind theirs.
He is going to receive the treatment that Hillary got blasted about. She mentioned in one debate that it was hard to debate him since he changed positions so often. He took great offense. That became the next day’s talking point about her “racist” attitude or, minimally, about her “negative campaign.”
But he’s made a complete fool of himself. Really, we all have the message at this point. A vote for Obama is a vote for the “training wheels president.”
Now, some will think his “advisors” will help him. *blink* Since when have presidential advisors ever talked an idiot out of his position?
He’ll be the president. That’s a job of one. And he’s not going to be anything like in a campaign.
He’s giving Americans the information about himself and about his unsureness of foreign policy. That’s because he’s actually quite transparent, for once. He is decidedly inexperienced, and there’s no hiding it.
If Americans wish to risk this “pig in a poke,” as Bill Clinton says, so be it.
But Florida Jews? Not a chance.
His very talk to them was embarassing. “Don’t think my name means anything.” Good grief, he was talking to highly intelligent and well-read leaders. He acted like they were idiots.
They’ll be a few who back him, of course. But….polls will show that he loses them handily.
They have been looking for an excuse to exit the Democratic party.
Obama is a gift. Outta there.
That was so obnoxious. They don’t vote for him, so he goes there and instructs them don’t object to the color of my skin, don’t object to my name.
Idiot, you need to listen and talk to them about their concerns. It’s not all about you.
I’m convinced this RFK flop is all about covering his embarrassing week in Florida.
EXCELLENT POST….One of the biggest problems facing the West has always been misunderstanding and miscalculating ( for lack of a better term so I will revert to the old empirical one )…The Oriental Mind. Western Philosophy and the evolution of Western Society has evolved essentially along the Roman Empirical Model…The Romans were constantly complaining about their bafflement of the Oriental Mind….East meets West ( Russians evolved out of the Oriental Mind and it was Peter the Great who first introduced Western innovation to the Empire ) To the classical definition of the Oriental Mind…Perception is everything….If a POTUS is percieved as weak then the advantage is assured….The West is the antithesis to totalitarianism which is the government that comprises many Eastern Countries…including Iran’s Theocracy.
Interesting point, WCA, and certainly what JFK faced against NK. The NYT op-ed continues with more on that topic:
Obama’s reputation as “effete” and “intellectual” and “elitist” on top of his superciliousness and petulant whining make him look like whimp (which he seems to be).
Axelrove’s Frankenstein would get his butt kicked in Foreign Affairs. Let’s hope he doesn’t get the chance to put us all in danger.
AGREE MARY JO….working on my third cup o Joe and am excited to fully read again your article as I’m hoplessly dylexic and have to reread everything…once for content/info…again for pleasure if the syle warrants it. Kennedy was an interesting study in contrasts….A good student of history swept up in the dealism of Post WWII America…Great for NASA…not so great for Foreign Policy…In This I’m afraid we must continue ( if smart ) to be students of the British in all things Empirical…
Tony Blair had a bit of the kennedyesque bout of disillusionment with GWB…and GWB with Putin ( although I put that one down to King George being mad as a hatter )
It is my belief this whole mess is headed for a case of major EMPIRICAL WOMPASS IN THE MIDDLE EAST and the Good Folks of Europe will fall in line because essentially it all goes back to Crusading shit…The Russians will back off if we leave em’ alone as will China as long as they get their bit….Look at it another way…Roman are comin to town and you best be ready to either move into the 21st C or tough shit ! IRAQ is our new largest Air craft Carrier….We will base there for as long as it takes.
And I think we will quibble and bitch about it being wrong..but we’ll do it because in the end this tribal terroristic bullshit is gettin old and bad for business…If Folks want a Global World than you got to have a Global Sheriff….PAX ROMANA = STABILITY
History is primarily the record of human behavior….that’s why it is so critical to study and learn from….
By the Way….The First Recorded Act of Suicidal Guerilla Attacks were recorded by the Romans when describing those Damn Pesky Radically Religious Jews when they defended their temple….totally baffled the Romans and it still baffles their descendants….Us….
WCA, love this
Aren’t you the person who curses trolls in Latin? Now that is a great skill. You should teach us all some.
Yep…that’s me….a humble student of history who occasionally commits Latin ( I have seized the opportunity to brush up on very rusty classics…Latin being one…) And the Romans raised the craft of Insults to a high art only matched by the British imho….chuckle…
I have found solace in the quality of both the articles and the dialogue of commentary on this site. Fine group of writers, I say !
Every time I’m here I learn something…and for that I am grateful in true Socratic fashion…The humor is entertaining as well….
RESPICE…ADSPICE…PROSPICE…
( LOOK TO THE PAST…PRESENT…FUTURE…)
At least Kennedy was honest. That was his mercurial nature and thank God he had one. Obama lacks even that. And remember, that was then and this is now. Ahjmadinejad is not Kruschev. And we’re dealing with the mentality of people who think suicide missions are a valid and necessary tactic in warfare. There’s no getting around that fact and even I know it’s hard to negotiate with people with that mentality.
” The Unexamined Life Is Not Worth Living…” Socrates
Kennedy was a good student of both History and Western Philosophy.
I agree with your concern Mimi….It is unreasonable to expect to have negotiations with irrational people….This was the Roman Dilemma…
NEMO LIBER EST QUI THEOLOGICA SERVIT
( No One Is Free Who Is A Save To His Theology )
The West has evolved primarily along the Roman Empirical Formula…
Our legacy from the Europeans….Our values of Education, Rational Thought and Discourse, Participatory Government etc…are a different set of priorities…Our way of life threatens the theocratic way of life….
This can be seen in a nutshell in Israel and it’s neighbors…It is fundamentally a fight between those that would keep the region in a dark age and those intent on bringing the principles of the Elightenment to the fore….Progress v. Regress
*** IMHO…The Chinese are coming up with interesting compromises to their democratic dilemma…having payed careful attention to the chaos that insued with the collapse of the Soviet Union and it looks as if Castro’s lil’ brother has paid attention as well…***
An Open Letter to Senator Obama on Iran
from the Alliance of Iranian Women
(Hey Senator, shut the hell up!)
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/an-open-letter-to-senator-obama-on-iran/
THANKS FOR THAT LINK….veeeery interestink….and they should know….
If even Mike Howell is checking it out…?
I know everyone is concerned that Obamboozalama is showing just how
ignorant, naive, dangerously foolish and pootentially destructive to us his forieng policy knowledge or lack thereof and the subsequent no preconditions policies are.
SOme of you think this is his achilles heal that this is the issue that will sink him.
Wake the hell up!!!
now watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po7J0f5TMrQ
and then tell me that his forieng policy is his weakest point.
The guys is an idiot on all fronts.
I agree. Moderate Dems not the “sore losers” are unenthused about his bid.
They’ll use his tax policy to exit, stage left.
He’s a disaster on the economic front.
Frankly, where isn’t he a disaster?
*sigh*
The only thing he does good is repeat other politicians campaign catchphrases as his own and put on an entertaining rally.
First there was the Fainting Ladies halftime show.
Fainting Ladies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndl57E7UJno&feature=related
THen someone started analyzing it.
Barack Obama’s Water-gate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dySlhGY6Zyo&feature=related
agree…OBAMA IS INTELLECTUALLY LAZY AND PHILOSOPHICALLY CHALLENGED….AS EVIDENCED BOTH BY HIS MEDIOCHRE BOOKS AND HIS CAMPAIGN RHETORIC….
A bit off-topic, but the Obama gaffe machine just keeps going and going…
“[In FL] Obama…repreatedly referred to the city of Sunrise in northwestern Broward as ‘Sunshine.” As in “It feels good to be in Sunshine!’ And ‘When we are unified, Sunshine, nobody can stop us!’
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2008/05/obama-comes-to.html
HILARIOUS!
Is he still on drugs?
You know, to me? This is minor stuff. Her remark yesterday was a lot more startling.
I will admit when Bush expressed surprise that groceries were scanned, I truly laughed. Talk about a life where you never go to 7-11! LOL*
But this stuff is not relevant, really.
I personally just sum it up in simple terms. Obama has shown us that Hillary’s claim that he’s not ready to be Commander in Chief, while it drew ire and hostile comments, was probably exactly where most Americans are going to land.
And we aren’t in caucuses in the Fall. We pull that wonderful curtain, and we know if approached by a poller, we can decline to speak or lie.
But he’s just too inexperienced for the job.
I may be in the minority here, but I think giving his foreign policy space for discussion doesn’t make sense. He has none. He flip-flops, and it’s about looking good. Really, the man has no vision or sense of the issues.
We saw that in debate after debate.
He was given way too much benefit of the doubt by many. They mistook working a crowd for being ready for the job.
He is, indeed, a pig in the poke. But what’s bad for him, anyway? We’re starting to get a feel for this pig.
And it’s not good.
Americans aren’t going to put someone into power who is this much of a disaster.
It’ll never happen.
What I’m sad about is that we all know that the one who was really ready on Day 1? *sigh*
Well, anyway.
could explain why his kids call him stinky
Is this really a question anymore? It seems clear to me that he is on drugs and I suspect it is multiple drugs.
But if W can be on drugs in the White House (and who doubts that?), certainly the black pres who would call all secret service agents racist can be on drugs.
The question is, do we want any more of this preposterous stuff going on in our lives???
“Leaders, organisers, instigators and accomplices participating in the formulation or execution of a common plan or conspiracy to commit any of the foregoing crimes (crimes against peace, war crimes and crimes against humanity) are responsible for all acts performed by any persons in execution of such a plan.” (‘Media Held Guilty of Deception,’ Inter Press Service, February 14, 2005 [Reporting the Nuremberg Tribunal findings].)
If an assassination were to take place we will know where to start the investigation.
Oh Screw it, they are going to blame her anyway no matter what.
Ok ok
HILLARY DID IT!
Now lets come together and ensure she gets the nomination and the white house.
thanks.
And not just her.
anodyne,
Be sure to post it on Kos, the HuffPo and other prObama sites. They’ve been threatening Hillary’s life since before Super Tuesday, drive-bys, and smoeone siadi they would ’slit her throat.’
And ask them to provide an historical context with their threats.
Awww
(on a lighter note)
Youngster charms Clinton in Brandon
By Alica P. Thiele
apthiele@argusleader.com
May 23. 2008 3:08PM
A young girl in Brandon knew how to impress Sen. Hillary Clinton Friday afternoon.
When Clinton had finished her prepared remarks to a crowd at Sunshine Foods she opened the session to questions and answers.
The girl, named Emily, raised her hand for some time before being called on by the candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination.
“How did you get so pretty?” the young girl asked.
“I love South Dakota,” Clinton responded and then asked the youngster to join her in front of the crowd of about 200 in the produce section at the store.
LOL, that adorable.
Actually I’ve been thinking the same thing. Hillary really has gotten more an more attractive the older she’s gotten. (I was noticing this with Barbara Walters the other day, too.) For many years we’ve lived with this cultural and media myth that women “loose their looks” as they get older.
I think it was Rush that said we didn’t want a female president to age before our eyes. Well, you little pill popping misogynistic jerk, Hillary isn’t ageing, she’s blosseming right before our eyes.
did i stumble onto sean hannity’s blog? is this a bill o’reilly circle jerk? you guys already have rove’s playbook full of talking points, i see. as someone who has to spend the day combing through the worst of humanity at freerepublic and lgf, i have to say, this site takes the cake.
i supported hillary from the start, voted for her, and still support her. but that doesn’t mean i agree with all this anti-obama poison. it is absolute madness.
Camp Obama Koolaid Drinker’s Paid Blog Posters meeting and faint-a-thon —> That Way!
thank you, paid hannito-bot rightwinger posing as democrat.
LOL….FUNNY THAT…
I don’t know you, but nobody could have repeated the REpublican slime machine more than Obama supporters in this election.
Point by point…..and you live with that now.
You have virtually NO credibility as a result.
Live with that, too.
i’m sorry, what are you talking about?
*chuckle*
I bet you’re so young you don’t even realize that Huffington Post and KOS have been doing nothing but pushing the old standard Republican slime machine statements of the 80’s against Hillary.
I said all along, I thought a lot of you guys were raised in Republican homes and believed the crap.
i was a hillary supporter. i am now prepared to face the music and support a democrat over a republican who i think may be worse than bush himself. but i’m glad that you think obama supporters (myself now included) have virtually no credibility, which is at least better than literally none.
so you’re saying there’s a chance…
I’ve not decided how to vote in the Fall. But I can say, I think Obama is the irresponsible choice.
i am now prepared to face the music
An what a “Requiem for a Troll; in F# minor” it will be.
What is “credible” to BO supporters are factually incorrect lies to everyone else.
go away we are happy without you..
obami is poison that part is correct
did i stumble ….
Iranian people are wondering if they are next.
When the American Embassy was taken over, I was in a shopping Mall and noticed an Iranian woman as she pulled her two children close to her, the look in her face, one of great fear, told me everything I needed to know.
A missile strike into Iran? Bush in 2005? requested that DOD plan for a nuclear strike on Iran. There were resignations over it and great dismay.
A missile strike into Pakistan or Iran is not a very good option; to enlist the peoples co-operation of either country. Yet according to BO he is under the illusion that we can “talk” directly while bombing them…or say later in the afternoon they are not a threat and the US has the advantage in an armed conflict.
BO’s understanding of the last 30 years of world history as it relates to Iran, shows he is more dangerous than the problem that Iran presents.
My sisters college room-mate was Iranian…Family fled Iran when the Ayatollah rumbled into town…Dad was a wealthy cardiologist and it took the rest of the family years to get him out and into this country where he died shortly after coming here….Americans would do well to pay heed to what expatriots have to say about the region…Say what you will about the Shah…That country went right back into the Dark Ages when the Ayatollah came into power..and we are still dealing with it…
*** The Iranian gil went onto become a lawyer specializing in International Marine Law….an opportunity she could only have acted upon afte leaving the Repression of The Iranian Regime….***
The truth hurts doesn’t it. LMFAO!
C
Does this have a context or are you just showing off your expansive reading list?
I would have thought the very short second paragraph was enough of a hint.
(I see you post Hustler’s [racist] cartoons over at your blog. What a feminist you are, you are.)
Thank you for this article, Mary Jo and Bud, it really does express some of the concerns I’ve had about Obama from day one. He has a way of taking history out of context that is frightening and also of misunderstanding the acts of some of our leaders.
It became really evident to me when he first attacked Clinton for talking about the relationship between LBJ and MLK. There is a serious ideological problem with Obama on every level. His “change comes from the bottem up” crap is such a blatent piece of nonsense, I don’t understand why more people don’t see it. He’s running for the highest office in the land as the candidate of change while telling everybody that change won’t be coming from the top.
How his ideology and inexperience would translate into foreign policy is absolutely terrifying to consider.
Agree with most of your assessment ….Obama has ADOPTED IDEALS AND IDENTIFICATIONS THAT ARE OUTSIDE HIS EXPERIENCE…This is part of the reason he is so inept with regards to History….I see it as one of many symptoms of OBAMA’S SERIOUS CONFLICT WITH HIS INNER CRACKER…
C
Hey anodyne,
I think you made a wrong turn on the internet. Kos is that a way at the Daily Blowjob. I’m sure he’s looking for you!
daily blowjob! totally better than bill o’reilly circle jerk. you’re awesome!
i’ve taken a few moments to ponder how McCain’s ideology and lack of historical understanding might translate into foreign policy, in light of the fact that McCain is this site’s de facto choice for Prez.
i’ve concluded that we’ll be cranking up the draft to send our boys and girls off to Syria and Iran in short order.
oh, and perhaps a good old-fashioned proxy war with the russians that evolves into WWIII. bring it on!
…. We’re still NEVER gonna vote for Obama. (I love the new Obamabot fear mongering techniques. Rather a refreshing change of pace from the usual racist accusations. And lets not forget calling people Stupid sweetie.)
On topic a bit, but also OT somewhat!
If you do not think that Bill Ayers and gang are driving Obama’s campaign from the back room, well welcome to the “Change” America, welcome to the Land of Marxism!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMLeamM7Jkk
I don’t. But I’m a minority.
I think he’s an empty suit, and I am convinced he just wants to be the first AA president. He’s a president in the pocket of some, now obvious, very power-hungry Democrats.
I’ve become convinced by some who point out that the Democrats don’t like real leadership.
It scares them. Fear of competency is real, you know.
awesome. thank you, loyal democrat for the link to glenn beck, the democratic standard-bearer.
Your ignorance only preceeds your inablity to think with an open mind, too bad too, a mind is a shame to waste, but yours is obviously to far gone to be saved!
really, does my ignorance “preceed” something? or does your ignorance “preceed” you typing words and formulating coherent thoughts?
HEY ANODIPSHIT..TAKE YOUR NEW OBAMA DEMOFASCIST PARTY LOYALTY AND SHOVE IT WRIIIIGHT UP YO ASS ! now waddle back to GAZA….this site is for intelleigent discourse….only entertaining facist trolls need apply….
loyal democrat implies by its very words that one would be willing to put asside personal judgment, personal beliefs and convictions for the good of the party as the party sees it.
In the united states there is only one loyalty i hold to…thats to the country herself.
Slimeball politicians who are constantly changing in and out of public view do not command my loyalty when they demonstrate how utterly incompetant they are.
Yeah…FDR was accused of Party Disloyalty and Class Betrayal when he came up with the New Deal…chuckle….We are in good company starting with Thomas Paine….
Lol the end is the best….this is Kim Jong Il dressed up in a bit of Oprah Winfrey dressing…HAHAHA
does hillary take her talking points from glenn beck and sean hannity, or is it just you pretend democrats?
You’ve been in Obamanation too long. This is how real democrats talk. (we’re not under the influence of the sweetobamabutterjuice)
Mel, so much for Apple PIE…
I am SURE there are Rulers(note, RULERS not LEADERS) around the world very eager for obamalamadicklesswonder to win the Presidency. While it will grieve me deeply is Senator Clinton is robbed of the nomination any SANE person could see she has EARNED it quiets my heart to realize obamalamadicklesswonder will NEVER be President and those despots will have to deal with if not President Clinton then President McCain.
“obamadicklesswonder.” really smart! wow.
Camp Obama Koolaid Drinkers entrance —–> that way
Smart but not very accurate. Michelle castorated Obama years ago. She was mumbling something about a limo ride between shrieks of ‘you sonuvabitch’
Well if Meeeechelle said that it was probably more along the lines of…
YousonofaCRACKERBITCH !…..chuckle….
This is what I remember: I was a child during the Kennedy Administration and I can remember living in abject fear that the missiles were coming. It culminated in the showdown over the Cuban Missile Crisis. There was a scary tense stand off that I remember as the “the moment the US held its breath.”
I relate to all of the kiddies who think Obama is the greatest. I felt that way about JFK. Kept a scrapbook and all. But then I grew up and learned that ALL of these politicians leave a lot to be desired and the truth is lurking in the shadows behnd the smoke and mirrors as we focus on the political dog and pony show.
I’m not going to denigrate the Kennedys, because I realize how sensitive people are and that more than guns and religion, people cling feverishly to their myths. I agree with the poster upthread who pointed out accurately that the administrations of Reagan and Kennedy have been rewritten to cater to our own personal need for fairy tales.
In fact, George W. Bush is in the process of rewriting his presidential history and if Obama becomes president, he’ll get a lot of help from Obama to secure a better place in history. The idea of that just about makes me gag.
From the beginning, the ease with which Obama compares himself to JFK, MLK, Malcomlm X has been a turn-off to me. And if we had a country with a better educational system and a generation of kids who had a bettter grasp of history, Obama wouldn’t be able to get away with this. Obama’s done nothing. He’s an image, a marketing creation that tons of people have bought into, even Caroine Kennedy who admitted recently that her kids sold her on Obama and that she in turn made the case to her Uncle Ted, (whom I now understand was greatly impacted by his tragic medical condition. Kerry has no excuse. He was just being vindictive.)
I’m sad for the part of America that prefers to wallow in superficiality. We are living in dangerous and serious times bordering on the transformation of our society as we know it. The least among us suddenly have the power. Speaker Pelosi made a collossal legislative error the other day which pretty much sums up the quality of her leadership skills. I’m sure she was happy for the Hillary/RFK remark to overshadow her stupidity. Such leadership mediocrity is all around us and Obama now leads the pack.
There is no reason for this man to be President. He knows very little and demonstrates this time and time again. He can’t handle himself when questioned and behaves as if no one has the right to pin him down for an answer. He thinks if he makes a speech, then that should be the end of it. I used to think he was at least intellegient, but now know he is an educated stupid arrogant fool who grew up learning how to hustle his guilt-ridden white family to the point of proficient skill. He is a master of white guilt manipulation. And he has now conned a good portion of the white electorate. I left out the black community because Obama didn’t con us, we conned ourselves. Something Obama learned we’d be willing to do just by watching our reaction to the OJ Simpson trial.
Our only hope is that a majority of people will vote and not let an Obama Presidency happen. I still think it’s possibe for Hillary to pull the nomination out. But I’m not going to fool myself into taking my eyes off the end zone and that’s November. My days as a Democrat are finished! I don’t enjoy the prospect of 4 more years of Republican rule, but the alternative of going back to cowering in fear the way I did as a small child while this total incompetant, inexperienced posturer goes prancing around the world stage as POTUS, is unthinkable.
I can’t believe that our leaders don’t realize that the world is already licking its chops at the prospect of Obama. When did we go deaf, dumb and blind??????
George bushes incompetance and disasterous 7.5 years paved the way for the media and leftwing nutjobs to prop up and push forth an incompetant idiot as a viable alternative to the resident moron.
If Barrack is the new Messiah then that would make George the Baptist.
Bingo post!
Agree totally. I personally believe that the problems facing us that have blossomed…4 dollars at the pump…have turned the tide. It’s not about Hillary’s campaign or Obama’s for that matter. It’s about the economy.
They will never risk a neophyte now. The race issue is now taking back seat.
We can’t afford to placate white guilt with someone so incompetent.
And he really is, very clearly, incompetent at most everything but working a rally.
The sad thing is Barky is most popular among college educated whites, not poor and working class people but the well educated and well-off.
The fact that the non-college types see through the bullshitter and Joe College is worshiping the SOB.
To me it shows our high schools still work but our universities have turned into propaganda factories that turn out mushy headed simpletons with degrees. Who fall for any Elmer Gantry type who happens to open his mouth.
Perhaps this is what to be expected when the intellectual elites of our universities fall for pranks like that pulled by Alan Sokal.
And maybe its time we start closing a few of the more prestigious ones down.
While crouching under my desk as a kid I looked up to see a message scribbled on the underside of the desk in 2nd grade penmanship.
“Im scared I love you mommy.”
Thanks for your post mimi…
Mimi, I deeply appreciated your comment - as I deeply appreciated the time and energy that the two marvelous authors spent on this diary. The diaries accuracing and energy leave me in awe of the folks that continue to work on keeping the truth out there and I say a seriously as I can:
Larry and Susan: there are many good Hillary blogs but the intelligence and outright honesty and determination of your work is the primary thing that is keeping me from the kind of depression when I realized that we had Kerry and he was not going to make a dent in any of this.
I do not know how to stop the DNC can be stopped but I keep reading and hoping and I am up for whatever works and I keep on working on Hillary’s campaign and having faith…
Thank you Bud and MJK
I thought Obama paid his trolls by the word count–you’re not going to make much with such pithy comments as this.
Speaking of dicks, don’t be late for Kos and his Daily Blowjob. Run along now.
Orange Kool-Aid and Graham Crackers at the Kos’s!!!
mimi | 2008-05-24 11:58:37
Me too. I remember those duck-and-cover drills in school and people building bomb shelters. Scary shit.
My father, a decorated WWII vet, would laugh at all the preparations people were making to protect themselves from nuclear attack. He’d tell me “Don’t worry honey, if the commies drop a nuclear bomb on us, there won’t be anything left to worry about.”
Obama is so far out of his league. I’d much sooner trust McCain than Obama, if Hillary isn’t in the running.
When Powell was selling the Invasion of Iraq to the UN….and BBC was broadcasting Israeli advise on clever uses for Duct tape…I began to work on 2 series of art images related to these events as they invoked the old fears of childhood….The last duck and cover drills where I grew up occured when I was in kindergarten and were then changed to Hurricane drills…chuckle….The titles of my series ( multiple images still evolving ) are Duck & Cover…and Sugar Theory ( based on the Bush Administration )
It will most likely take me a few more years to complete…Such is the way of reactionary art…and currntly I’m collecting info in response to the incursion of FASCISM IN AMERICA AS REPRESENTED BY OBAMA…
*** One thing can be said about FASCISM….It makes for good reactionary art..as history shows….Our entire modern Art scene resulted from it as the Great Artists that Hitler did not manage to Kill came here and gave us our first Golden Age of critical Art and Theory…I’m just sayin”….***
Mary Jo K. and Bud: excellent essay; fascinating and very interesting analysis. It was a pleasure to read and I learned a few things from it. Thank you
Obama is an improvisator; his statements and platform is very similar to `cocktail conversation’. He touches upon a variety of issues and historical facts to impress but he is unable to elaborate on any of them. The reason is simple: he has not thought through them, analyze them ponder and arrive to a conclusion of his own. He just borrows cliches.
And it is this what makes Obama so similar to George W. Bush. And that is scary.
People say he is smart b/he went to Harvard or was editor (a very weak one) of Law Review. Pardon me, but G.W Bush also went to Yale and Harvard and…. (precisely). It doesn’t mean intellectual heft at all.
Obama lacks the intellectual curiosity to immerse himself into a topic and try to truly understand it.
He comes accross as the smart kid (just like Bush) who knows is smart and hence does not need to work too hard or do too much to get by.
It is not about formal education, it is about being smart and caring about the issues. Obama doesn’t and
it shows in the superficiality of his thinking.
Exactly. He’s very uninterested. He was the only Harvard Review editor who never published. Unheard of, in that circle.
People were shocked.
He just wanted it on his resume. He’s the classic resume builder.
Honestly, I have no problem with that, either, except he decided to go from state congressman to president. LOL*
THAT, I have a probelem swallowing
only harvard review editor who never published, but got a 40 thousand dollar advance to write a book about the black experience that he decided instead to change to be a book about his experience aka fairytale autobiography.
The man is so beyond dirty.
The Hope and Change Candidate: Hope they don’t find it all out before november 4, CHange the Subject if they do.
Thanks for that tidbit. LOL* I didn’t know.
Fits totally.
Does noone wonder how this poor child of food stamps and single parent hood who grew up disadvantaged as he claims with very little money,
Went to the most expensive schools in the country, got plumb assignments and positions at every turn in his career without having to prove himself, got 40,000 dollar book advances without ever having written a single book to write his life story at the age of 28 when nobody really know who he was?
How he moved to Chicago after growing up in hawaii and going to school on the east coast and suddenly was thrust into and elevated swiftly through the ranks of greed and corruption to be a 1 year junior senetor from the riding dirty daley state funning for president?
Noone? Bueller?
The Office of the Presidency of the United States is not bound by Affirmative Action!
JUST SAY NO TO ON THE JOB TRAINING!!!!
WE CAN NOT AFFORD TO SACRIFICE EVEN 1 AMERICAN LIFE SO THAT BARRY OBLAHBLAH CAN LEARN WHY YOU NEVER NEGOTIATE WITH YOUR SWORN ENEMIES WHO WANT TO KILL YOU, WITHOUT PRECONDITIONS!
That cartoon is all over the internet and to your poor kool-aid addled brain, everything is racist, isn’t it? Clearly, my use of blue ink is racist. Owning a white dog is racist. Sitting under a green trees–that’s probably racist too.
You and your simple-minded ilk are like broken records, playing the same sad song.
As you have a PhD you’ll know that your argument is a non-sequitur; therefore it’s made in bad faith. Either that or you’re not as well qualified as you claim, sweetie.
You do realize your idiot boy is only running for President because being a Senator was “too hard” and he saw Bush stay on vacation in the the 7+ years and then saw that Clinton has made money as a speaker since leaving office right ?? Thing is, I’ve met Bill and Hillary Clinton, and Barry and Michelle aren’t even in the same solar system, much less the same league. If elected, we would truly get 4 more years of Bush type disinterest, disfunction and dishonesty.
Barry’s strategy from the beginning has been to avoid contact with Hillary and make lots of noise to cover up his deficiencies. There’s been some success in the latter, to the extent that Hillary gets drowned out. However the noise strategy has also failed massively, as it has led to pledges by many to never vote for Obama as a direct result of the noise (you are a racist and a woman hater, invective aimed at me from a commenter at an Obama hate site). Obama’s strategy is defined by his weaknesses, a fact that Democratic party leaders must understand but ignore. Why?
http://tinyurl.com/6xwclh
Thank you for the topic of discusion, a subject I’ve been interested since I was a kid. (Filed trip to the NY Mueasum of Art;Ancient Persia exhibit)
I always thought “tinyurl” was a euphmism for something else but that one will do too.
…..
Destroying history in order to rewrite your own is beyond immoral, any rhetoric in support of it is telling when it comes to people in support of this poser BO.
We have wondered after the “historic” nature of this election. A woman and *african american* to run for the office of POTUS.
That is not the only history being made and repeated. Beyond the vail of manipulation history is being made that will prove ultimately that itis “Humanity… Stupid”…
* technically not true *
I share your enthusiasm for the history Teak…as I have been interested in the Fertile Crescent since I was a child….It about broke my heart when the Iraqi Museum was pillaged…It is a critical area of study both politically and culturally…
*** I had a huge wake up when King George used the loaded term CRUSADE… and began to re-read the classic history…Now I have a better insightr as to this whole NEO-CON business…hmmmm….***
I would love for somebody to ask Obama about Kennedy’s meeting with Krushchev. I would love to know if Obama, like Bush’s press secretary Dana Perino, does not know the difference between Bay of Bigs and Cuban Missile Crisis.
Obama has not demonstrated command of history. In fact, he’s hinted broadly he has little knowledge of history.
Yesterday in Miami, Obama blamed the rise of Chavez on Bush. One problem Chavez was elected President in 1998 when Bush was governor of Texas.
I’ve written post on this but as it covers Venezuelan political history, I am not going to post here. You can read it on my blog but the salient is already noted, Obama got his facts wrong yet again.
Obama Blames the Rise of Chavez on Bush
Suffice it to say, that Obama is wholly not credible in any of his foreign policy pronouncements. He needs a history lesson.
I liked like post last night on Iran.
I wonder did bama point t the Jews like he does to everyone else?
that is rich…Jeeeezus….OBAMA IS A FOREIGN POLICY MENACE….
Averell Harriman, now there was a learned politician, whose name is well honored by many NY parks and sites. He was the gov. when I was born.
obama can add “not a diplomat” to his long list of reasons to not support him. His stubborn arrogance doesn’t hide his ignorance, it multiplies it.
Obama it not fit to be POTUS. It’s Hillary or McCain. People I know are beginning to get angry, if Obama is at the top of the ticket, they will vote against Dems down-ticket (no bad deed will go unpunished this time around.).
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