Rebecca Traister’s Safe Expectations — No Deal
By Charles Lemos on June 24, 2008 at 8:30 AM in Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Commander in Chief, Counterterrorism, DNC, Delegates, Florida, Foreign Policy, Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Israel, John McCain, Keith Olbermann, Michelle Obama, Michigan, Misogyny, Obamedia, Qualifications, Sexism
Rebecca Traister this week writing in Salon thinks she knows how 18 million people think:
The attack of the PUMAs, or a dozen reasons why Clinton voters are still too angry to come home.
If you’re a dedicated Democrat — or perhaps even one of those fed-up Republicans we’ve heard about — there’s a good chance you’re pretty stoked right about now. After a grueling but thrilling primary contest, we at last have decided on a history-making, barrier-breaking Democratic presidential candidate. You’re excited! You’re inspired! You’re ready to hit rural Ohio with enough campaign literature to choke a wavering independent!
But why do you keep hearing all these stories about grumpy old ladies still hung up on Hillary Clinton, the ones who’re threatening to make a scene at the Democratic convention in Denver, or vote for John McCain in November?
To be fair, it’s not just women. There are plenty of Clinton supporters of every demographic description who are still ticked. But yes, it’s true that the Clinton base skewed female, and that women over 30 are the most vocal of the malcontents. Some of them are calling themselves “PUMAs” (as in “Party Unity My Ass”), an acronym that makes them sound, appropriately enough, like cougars in a very bad mood. Who are these women, and why are they such buzzkills?
A buzzkill? A buzzkill would be a disasterous Presidency from a dangerously inexperienced 46-year-old Senator who misspeaks on issues ranging from the status of Jerusalem to meeting global dictators and sponsors of global terrorism without preconditions and has no core convictions and for whom everything is a matter of political expediency. That’s a buzzkill. And PUMA, at least for me, stands for People United Means Action.
Remember that classic of pop-psychological cheese, “Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus”? This offensive but rhetorically useful book (yes, I’m invoking it; address your letters of complaint to rtraister@salon.com) states that often, in conflict, women simply want to be heard. They want to air their grievances and let their opponents know where they’re coming from. Now the Democratic Party is moving forward, as it must, but it is doing so without giving the Clinton women a real hearing — without letting them vent their anger. It is the social equivalent of talking over them, waving off their complaints, assuming they’ll come around. This is a mistake. This is only making things worse (even if, as Walter Shapiro notes, history says they will come around, no matter how many PUMA T-shirts and Web sites like this one may be sprouting now).
In the spirit of this kind of communication and rapprochement, I figured it might be a valuable exercise to examine the different flavors of anger that your Clinton-supporting peers may be experiencing right now. Here are a dozen reasons why some Clinton supporters are mad and are not yet ready — even as their candidate joins him on the hustings — to put on Barack Obama buttons.
History says will we come around? Obama says we will come around. Howard Dean says we will come around. Claire McCaskill says we will come around. Donna Brazile says we will come around. And some of us keeping on telling you that we won’t so can please drop this. But obviously, she is not so it’s time for the media to tell me how I think or how I feel.
This list is not comprehensive. It is based on interviews with women at Clinton’s June 3 nonconcession speech and her June 7 concession speech, and on comments I heard from some attendees at an EMILY’s List conference a week after Clinton bowed out. It undoubtedly misrepresents the feelings of any number of Hillary heads. This is merely an attempt to give space to, describe and otherwise make a record of the grievances of a number of deeply committed political people who have just had their hearts broken. So without further ado: an incomplete taxonomy of post-primary rage.
1. They are angry because their candidate lost a close contest.
This is just simple human math, and it happens after every primary showdown. Remember that it took some Deaniacs months to come around to John Kerry in 2004. It’s just that most years, the contests haven’t also been identity-politics duels between two underrepresented social groups vying for a chance at a political position that has always been denied them.
Another difference is just how close and engrossing this race became. It’s hard to lose, especially when the finishes were often photo-worthy, when the possibility of upset lurked around every corner. And for those Obama supporters who say “Come on, it was over for months; it was an irresponsible fiction that Hillary ever had a chance,” it may be useful to imagine how it might have felt to have had the candidates’ situations fully reversed: Clinton winning more pledged delegates, many of them coming from caucus states and red states, Obama nipping at her heels in the popular vote and winning big states and purple states and two states whose votes weren’t fully counted, Florida and Michigan. Imagine how maddening it would be to believe your candidate was the better bet in the general election but was denied the nomination by quirks of the process. You’d be pissed, right? Furious! It would be 2000 and our flawed electoral system all over again. So that’s a start at imagining how an angry Clinton supporter feels — except that you probably never saw Clinton as the underdog, so there’s not the equivalent feeling of electric, explosive grass-roots momentum having been quashed. But remember that from her supporters’ perspective, she spent all of primary season post-Iowa as the underdog, so they probably feel a lot more like this than you can imagine.
Not in my case. Nothing to do with Hillary Clinton and everything to do with Barack Obama. I’ll take Joe Biden or John Edwards. I will never vote for Barack Obama. Repeat after me, everything to do with Barack Obama and who he is.
2. They are angry because their historic opportunity is over.
Getting excited about changing history felt awesome. I can’t emphasize it enough: This had never happened before. And it was fun. Exhilarating. Hopeful. Changing. All of that. When Michelle Obama guest-hosted “The View” last week, Whoopi Goldberg told her how wonderful it was to see her face on the news all the time, because we don’t often see black women like her portrayed in the media. But we had also never before seen pantsuits on the stump, had never seen a female candidate’s face behind a debate podium, had never heard a woman’s high-pitched forced laughter when she answered interview questions on TV. These were all novelties, and also how progress happens. Before our eyes. Now that part is over. And that makes people sad.
I know not a single Clinton supporter who is sad. Over what? Determined is more like it.
3. They are angry about rumors that Obama may choose a woman other than Hillary Clinton as his running mate.
This is a tricky one. Maybe some Clinton supporters remain so besotted by the idea of their woman as the history maker that they won’t be satisfied unless Clinton or someone from her direct bloodline is the first female to breach the executive branch of government.
In reality, however, it’s more that the other female politicians whose names are being bandied about (cough, Kathleen Sebelius, cough) seem like pallid substitutes, and the only reason Team Obama would even pick one is to placate stubborn Clinton supporters. It wouldn’t placate them.
But this is one of the facets of post-Clinton anger that puts Obama in a hell of a bind. Because the truth is that many of Clinton’s most devoted supporters overcame their own ambivalence about her because they believed it was so important to establish a precedent, to break the glass ceiling and put a woman in a job that has never been filled by a woman before. A female vice president, especially a Democratic one, is not nothing. And everyone who watched the glee with which Clinton’s failed bid was met should know that. But it’s true that if Obama goes with a woman, and decides (as seems certain) not to tap Clinton herself, he must pick someone who has something more going for her than a pair of mams. He needs someone who generates heat of her own, who can energize a crowd, who can do something for him besides providing him with a gender credential. Who is that?
It has NOTHING to do with Hillary Rodham Clinton. He can have her as his Vice Presidential nominee and I still won’t vote for him. I vote my values and I don’t share his values. And I don’t know anyone who is pushing Chelsea to run for President. Bloodlines? Are you serious?
4. They are angry that we started to talk about sexism only once Clinton stopped being a threat.
Yes, it’s great that we are finally having panels and conferences and news stories about the way in which Clinton’s candidacy was met with an enormous amount of gendered antipathy from the media. (And for any of you sitting at your computers yammering about how the coverage of Clinton had nothing to do with her sex, allow me to be frank: can it.) Those discussions shouldn’t stop. But it is painfully obvious that this was a conversation that could only be had once Clinton stopped threatening Obama’s prospects, or men generally. This is really depressing.
What’s depressing is that you get paid to write this.
5. They are angry at the media’s repeated denial of sexism, and they are angry at Keith Olbermann.
The first should be quite obvious. In a New York Times story last week, members of the media heartily denied that there was any sexism in the way that Clinton was discussed. This in the face of zillions of examples of gender-fueled language both explicit (comparisons of Clinton to a nagging spouse, to an ex-wife outside of probate court, to Lorena Bobbitt, to a sexless monster, to Glenn Close in “Fatal Attraction”) and only slightly more subtle (the unabashed determination on the part of print and broadcast media to put her campaign down as early as possible, and the hyperactive joy they betrayed whenever that wish appeared to be coming true). To deny that this happened is foolish, and it doesn’t make any of the eagle-eyed women who spotted Tucker Carlson crossing his legs in emasculated fear any less angry.
As for Olbermann, outrage at him has supplanted displeasure with Chris Matthews, perhaps because Matthews has been publicly excoriated for his bias, while Olbermann is still held up by many as a talking-head hero of the left. Of course, those surprised by Olbermann’s clear distaste for Hillary Clinton, or the venom he directed at that nutsy Katie Couric, who meekly ventured that maybe there had been some media sexism during the race, obviously missed the time he once wondered on air if anyone had ever ejaculated on Paris Hilton’s face. Olbermann’s simultaneous tenacity on the side of good, coupled with his utter disinterest in gender equity, makes him emblematic of the unpleasant position in which Hillary-supporting feminists find themselves — members of a progressive party that doesn’t seem particularly interested in their progress.
Now you’re on to something. After four strikes, you actually hit one.
6. They are mad at Howard Dean.
Not simply for allowing the massive befouling of the Democratic process that was Michigan and Florida but for addressing issues of sexism only once Clinton was out of the race. Seriously, the anger at Dean may be some of the most unexpected and intense. At the recent EMILY’s List conference, during a panel on gender and the election, Dean’s name was the only one that got booed.
Now you are on a roll. I know many who feel this way. I am more angry at the Democratic Party as a whole but Howard Dean makes a good proxy on this score.
7. They are mad at Barack Obama.
This is a tough one, because it’s vital to remember that many people who loved and supported Hillary Clinton for president also loved Barack Obama. They regretted having to choose between the two in the primaries and are now eagerly supporting Obama, even as they nurse their disappointment over Clinton’s loss. But for some, there is lingering sting — about the paucity of women in Obama’s top advisory team during the campaign, about the way they feel the Obama campaign stained Clinton’s supporters — and Clinton and her husband too — as racists, about the patronizing “You’re likable enough” comment during a January debate. Perhaps the worst slight, in their eyes, came after Obama had secured the nomination. When he should have been smoothing ruffled feathers, he instead decided to hire Patti Solis Doyle, longtime Hillaryland denizen from whom the senator is now reportedly estranged, as the chief of staff for the yet-unnamed vice-presidential candidate. The move was either monumentally clueless or a petty “fuck you,” not simply to Clinton herself but to the huge number of people still rooting for him to put Clinton on the ticket. (By the way, a personal note to these people: It’s not going to happen. We need to stop talking about it. Hoping for it is only going to leave you angrier in the end.)
I am not mad at Barack Obama. I wish him a long and healthy life out of politics. That many Democrats who voted for Hillary Clinton will vote for Senator Obama in the general election I do not doubt. But I think it fair to say that at least 25% won’t and that’s best case scenario. The worst case scenario is 40%. If he doesn’t win 85% of the Clinton base, he loses.
8. They are mad at Bill Clinton. Um, obviously.
This just boggles the mind. Why?
9. They are mad at Mark Penn.
And that’s for being a complete blockhead who mangled an epochal bid for the Oval Office. In a year in which it was obvious to anyone with eyes, ears or a nose that the country was dying for “change,” Penn made the keen decision to sell Clinton — a history-making candidate — as an establishment player. But the hard truth is that anyone who wouldn’t fire this guy the morning after Iowa probably didn’t deserve to win. Clinton didn’t boot him till April.
I personally don’t care for Mark Penn but I also don’t cry over spilled milk. What’s done is done. What matters is the country and preventing a disaster of untold proportions. I loved the Democratic Party, I love the United States more.
10. They are mad at Hillary Clinton for conceding and not taking their fight on to Denver.
No one I know is either mad or disappointed. We understand what happened. We know that she was giving her marching orders. No one I know blames her for conceding. She has conceded, we haven’t.
11. They are mad that everyone believes them to be old, white and racist. They are mad at the people they thought were supposed to be progressives for treating them badly.
They are mad at their party and its leaders because they feel this race has opened up a door, allowing people to rag on white women — as irrelevant and buffoonish, as ambitious and preening, as old school and boring and nagging and hectoring — in a way that demonstrates that women have a questionable place in liberalism and progressivism. Since when is the party supposedly interested in social justice not interested in the advancement of women to the highest office?
It was, in fact, remarkable, the success with which hoary stereotypes about second-wave feminism got so enthusiastically embraced 30 years past their sell-by date. Who knew how eager the American public — and more critically, the American left — was to wholeheartedly embrace the image of Hillary supporters as sexless, humorless, bitter, hysterical old crones. It was simply acceptable — in a way that was a brisk eye-opener for a lot of young women, even those who didn’t support Clinton — to talk derisively about Clinton and her supporters as whiny, cackling, emasculating witches.
Of course, the ease with which these kinds of stereotypes were bandied about suggests that it is women — about to take your jobs and your college acceptance letters and your seat in the Oval Office and probably your penis! — who are the most threatening to the established white male power structure. But it seems that that was rather cold comfort when Clinton women were being steadily assailed with images of themselves as unappealing, pruney old harpies who did all their political thinking with their ovaries.
I know as men as as I do women who feel like I do. This has nothing to do with gender or race and everything to do with the kind of person that Barack Obama is. He offends our values.
12. And finally, they are angry because they feel they are held hostage by the party by their reproductive organs.
As many people have already observed: What are they going to do, vote for John McCain? No. The truth is, they’re really not. Not if they care about their freedoms to control their own reproductive lives. And they are acutely aware that party leaders know this and that, thus, despite all this anger, Democratic women remain a sure thing.
In a recent New Yorker profile of Keith Olbermann, MSNBC chief Phil Griffin described how Clinton voters felt alienated from Olbermann’s anti-Clinton coverage: “He turned out to be a jerk and difficult and brutal. And that is how the Hillary viewers see him. It’s true. But I do think they’re going to come back. There’s nowhere else to go.”
Exactly. These angry people have nowhere else to go. So the safe expectation is that they will fall in line without much kicking and screaming. And that, ultimately, is why many of them are kicking and screaming. Yes, they’re going to vote for Obama. Of course they’ll vote for him. The truth is, they’ll probably love voting for him. But after what they feel has been done to them — the way in which they were written off, marginalized and resented, their hopes mocked and their history-making ambitions dismissed as retrograde identity politicking — damned if they’re going to be nice girls about it.
Trust me on this one, we have plenty of options. Some will vote for McCain, others will stay home, others will vote for a third party, others will write-in Hillary Clinton I will likely vote in blank. And I have to ask, did you actually interview you anyone for this story? It sure doesn’t sound like it.
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most excellent post.
but now I AM mad-
at Rebecca Traister!!!
Thanks
Great post!
I love it that Rebekkka Traitor says “Buzzkill”–because it’s true.
The responsible grownup have noticed that the kids drank way too much kool aid and we’re hoping to bring them back to reality before it’s too late.
It’s also an admission that BO created a “movement”–that is, he’s revved up a bunch of stoners. They gave up plastering the buildings with their Andre the Giant images and are instead plastering them with Che for BO.
Where’s that fly swatter!
Buzzkill also means…we’re doing it!! We are being successful in all that we do.
Yea! I LOVE BEING BO AND FRIENDS BUZZKILL.
ZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZ
Wish I could log in to Huffington. I’ve tried to register several times in the past, but they never send the log-in information.
they would just ban your posts anyway
mine never show up
only once did they post it, and it was when I commented on the Bataan Death March comment, that they let up as it didnt directly offend their UHHHBAMA lovin censors
the media totally censors our speech and that is why the bubble of perception that they used to create the reality of Uhhbamanation worked so well, but in the GE the GOP will be there I HOPE to pop the bubble…..
Try registering again using a web-based e mail account such as Gmail.
Many people fail to get their registration e mails when they try to sign onto various forums because their ISP’s have spam mail filters in place that won’t pass on e mail from certain sources. With many ISPs you receive no notification of failed incoming mail.
With an account such as Gmail, anything that has been misidentified as spam can still be retrieved from the spam folder.
The Obama Campaign and its media co-conspirators working under Karl Rove continue to frame the debate their way.
It was the media, if you recall, that promoted the Obama “movement”. And the professionally produced Obama Girl video gave him the rock star image.
Now the protest against the DNC declaration of Obama as the nominee – which is pure fiction, since superdelegates can’t vote until August – is being framed as a bunch of hysterical women who can’t control their emotions.
You see how this works? If you’d like to join in a campaign to pressure the Senate Commerce Committee to investigate the media collusion, which violates anti-trust law, please click on my screen name for info and contact links.
Yet and STILL how’s that unity thing going???
What shit this writer is.
Buzzkill. you betcha. As in buzzkill democratic nominee, if its not hillary. With PLEASURE.
Another rebuttal:
http://www.democraticwings.com/democraticwings/archives/womens_rights/002044.php
Well that is what I call doing the job of reporting the news, feedback and the real voices that are expressing how they “us”, feel about this election and its outcome, one very important. We will be facing very important changes, challenges and battles in the years to come, that only ‘the most qualified’ person should be the one leading this nation.
We cannot vote just Democrat for whoever the DNC are obtuse to make us believe is the ‘one’, imagine if we had to vote for a ‘cute puppy’ because the DNC and the paid polls says so or whoever that comes with the idea of marketing the ‘one’ chosen by billionaires, who will be indeed the ‘hidden presidency’ moving the strings of their puppet…no, we cannot allow the government continue behaving in such irresponsible way! Stop the madness for God’s sake!
Susan, as you has advised me, here I am posting my answer to an email from the Hillary’s campaign. I think it fits with this thread…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
—– Original Message —-
From: Hillary Clinton
To: xxxxx@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 7:27:58 AM
Subject: Something I want to say
Dear Milly,
You have been such an inspiration to me during this campaign — your commitment and your boundless enthusiasm made everything we accomplished in the last 17 months possible. So as I continue to make sure your voices are heard, I wanted to say a special thank you for all the hard work you did on my behalf.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And my answer…
Dear Madame President,
I am the one that want to say thank you for the powerful message you delivered through your outstanding campaign, you indeed are the right person to lead this country. I will support only you, no one else. I am sorry but my commitment is that with my vote…I will put in the White House the most qualified person, I won’t vote Democrat, knowing that the candidate as at this date I am writing this, is “Sen. Obama” if chosen as the candidate from the DNC, that man will not get my vote.
And I have questioned with the information that is out there, how come this man is in politics, don’t the government has respect for their citizens anymore? That anyone ‘who can find billionaires to support any one who can dance at the rhythm they play”…can become the President? Allowing that person to have ‘all the classified and important’ information in his hands, destroying this great nation?
I am sorry, but I will do all that is in my power to not allow the United States to become the United States of Corruption.
Again, my best wishes to you Sen and soon to be our Madame President, yes I am still hopeful, that justice will be served! You made me proud of being a woman and human being, just keep fighting dear Hillary, remember your commitment is with your ‘people those who voted for you’…those who believe in your projects, ideas, your vision for a better future.
And remember you are committed to abide by your principles too, do no let anyone to force you to act different from what ‘you are’ Hillary Rodham, not another manipulated politician who only wants to secure a seat in the senate. Fight for your principles and for ‘us’…we need you, and you will have us behind and besides you, but do not ask us to support a candidate that is contrary to what we believe is the best for our country, thanks!
Be blessed Sen Rodham,
Milly
excelllent post, thanks you
Oh, and I’m pissed at Salon too-for
posting this s***!
I thought the Salon article was pretty good, myself. It captured the thinking I’ve seen expressed repeatedly.
Of course, not all of us are identical. Some hate one more than another.
I don’t believe you are the target audience of her article. It’s more for Obama supporters, and how they can turn you back.
If that’s how they think they can “turn us back”…they lose!!!
There’s no turning back. We’ve done it before, but no more!
“buzzkills” implies the subject is high on drugs.
And the reality of “going to the dentist” is bring “them” down. Good for the kool-aid addicts.
FF, if a person writes to a “targeted audience” that is not journalism, it is propaganda.
Btw, buzzkill? ao 70’s. How old is this person anyway? We’re the old, bitter ones. Hmmm
The article is patronizing and glib. =
But since the subject is anti-Obama and buzzkillers, this could only mean one thing, we have them by the short hairs.
Their mantra “they’ve got no place to go” is pure unadulterated BULLSHIT.
We don’t have to vote. We could for Mickey Mouse. Most assuredly our money won’t go for any democrat and especially not to the DNC. How are those convention plans working out? HA!
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you when. _M. Gandhi.
I think I figured out why everyone hates it. It’s the last paragraph. LOL*
I get it. I just ignore the conclusion, myself. They are slicing and dicing this too much.
Fact is: Obama is going to have problems winning over several groups. We’re just one. There’s a big tent now of people with major reservations about the Democratic candidate.
They’d be wise to pay attention to some of the other groups, too.
I dont know, Ann, it’s sounds like high priced, clinical insanity, to me.
For example, some guy has a PhD, say, and because he has a PhD, and can comb his hair, he makes a pronouncement that DK, and NQ are the same. Say the PHD is part of an effort to control information flow, part of a propaganda push, an Internet metaphor for a war strategy, blog v blog, like fantasy sports teams.
Just say’in…(lol)
The two blogs are not the same, that’s pretty easy to see, ( for smart, people, anyway.) Some people can analyze, some can’t, Mr ivy league kook can’t tell the difference because his own lens, his own perceptions, are batshit insane, and simply inferior, intellectually. He is NOT an analyst, though he thinks himself one, and is treated as such, by those who don’t know any better.
So the kook treats the blogs the same as he tries to game them against each other, engineering “a civil war,” starting a war to throw the little Internet social system into chaos, thinking he can gain control of all if he causes enough structural dysfunction within the various Internet information organizations (divide and conquer). But he continually fails to achieve this, the ivy sheep who surround him too poorly trained to understand WHY he is wrong, themselves not that smart, despite their “pedigrees,” and pretensions, victims of their own snobbery, and personality disorders, they are unable to underestand WHY he fails, and continue on with a losing plan. And though they cannot define WHY he is failing, they do have a vague sense something is wrong, as their OWN organization is suffering. All are a product of the corporate mediocre same think, none ever able to mount an effective counter offensive, allowing him to lead them over a cliff, say, because they can’t analyze why he is a failure, they can’t even recognize his insanity.
Like the real war, in Iraq, and it’s kook US leaders and planners.
The war can be handled, it can be done by a smart person, a Clinton, but not by this crowd of morons.
It won’t take a hundred years, that’s a retread from Ivy League batshit, sorry.
Now imagine this guy is in the army, or the US government, and he determines economic and domestic policy, we’re fucked, right?
And imagine the more this guy loses, because of his own batshit insane ineptness, the more he tries to strip the Constitution, because it’s not HIS fault, he simply needs more control, yeah, that’s the ticket, the Constitution is in the way, he needs more control. And the stupid Ivy lemmings, like this t0on, in Salon, agree to his batshit insanity, because they can’t recognize what is really happening here, so unqualified are they.
You think anyone ever called the real Hitler a fucking nut, who couldn’t do the job?
Sorry for the mistakes, I should have edited, I’m in a bit of a hurry, this morning…
Again, a little “Lyman” in every cereal bowl, the breakfast of champions…
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Speaking of cereal, I tried to make Brazilian cheese bread yesterday, cheese poofs, they’re called, gluten free, no cereal, and they didn’t turn out.
Another try today…
Tapioca powder instead of flour, they tasted like a glut of baking soda, and cheese.
my first attempt with bread, the baking soda didn’t work out so well either. the second loaf of bread i made, my room mate at the time ate it all while i was out. she said it was very good. she was lucky i was so fond of her. smile
Totally agree, Peter. You nailed it.
Clarity is not the same as intellectualism.
Someone who holds a PhD. has developed analytical skills having completed his requirements and written a thesis. Now he can still be biased and “batshit crazy” as can anyone. Sometimes despite abundant information, people still make decisions based on their gut feeling. Obama supporters sound guiltier of this than Clinton supporters. They just tell you they think the country is ready for a change or they believe in Obama’s message of hope. Sounds pretty fucking cultish to me, Peter Pentagram Picked a Peck of Pickled Peppers. I would be interested to see how the numbers for AA membership matches up with whites voting for Obama. I can understand blacks voting for him in the primaries. It’s the educated middle class progressive whites who sound like cult members.
I lived in the academia world, although I was involved through marriage.
One thing that drove me nuts was that there was intense peer pressure to adopt the most left-sounding position. However, the analysis of why that was a better position was not forthcoming.
It was, in short, a bunch of people who were anti-Vietnam war, loved being a rebel, and never grew up. So, so disappointing! I loved, obviously, really discussing issues.
You’ve never met a bigger bunch of chicken phonies when it came to rolling up your sleeves and discussing anything much.
Just a kind of club….didn’t mean squat.
excuse me the death treats to tavis smily came from the aa community so your analysis is a tad off. also having an advanced degree doesn’t mean that what you say is accurate. it means that you might give it a hearing and consideration. i have an advanced degree but depend on doing a good job and not my degree for success. that is reality. many from the academia don’t have a sense of the real world quite often.
“All theory and no practice” as they say.
It’s an awful choice!
We can vote for the same group that brought us the LIE called Iraq and the continued tax breaks for the MILLIONAIRES under McCain
or we can vote for the
NEW GREEN Black Liberation Theology raised bi racial Chicago politician that really wasn’t supposed to be the first choice but instead a more dirty POL Blago”something”
someone who is neither Democrat nor Progressive
or someone who is fine with tax cuts for the wealthy while our country has been bankrupt and would continue this eXPENSIVE DEADLY detour when Afghanistan is falling apart again and soldiers are weak and weary from 3 & 4 tours of duty for NOTHING!
jmo
Clinton was the best choice, and I’m bummed she’s out of the race now. McCain is not part of the PNAC crowd, though. Yes, he’s a Republican. He is not in lock step with the Bush administration, and I think he is more progressive than Obama.
I am going to come right out and call BS on Obama’s populist assurances that he is going to take money from billionaires and give it to the underprivileged. I feel better about McCain’s fight against earmarks than Obama’s proposed 12.5% tax hike and policies like green sector investment that would take at least five years to show progress. He doesn’t want to cut back. He only wants to introduce more bureaucracy and new programs. You can’t do it during a recession.
We hate the war, but it is showing improvement. I think McCain would be a better CIC than Obama who would make disastrous mistakes.
Uhhbama already laid a corporate tax cut on the table and said he would perhaps hold off on rolling back the Bush tax cuts, he is a Freidmanite in Progressive clothing
get ready for fees up the whazoo when he does the privatization of SS the money managers are rubbing thei fat hands together in anticipation, now that they totally fxxked the housing market, the Fed will start raising rates soon, ensuring that the 68% home ownership falls down back beneath 60% and who will be pushed out, why the AA and other “traditionally” diesnfranchised groups, and what will Uhhbama do to help them? why nothing, he already got his cut from Credit Suisse, this is their problem, and dont look to Chris Countrywide VIP Dodd to help either or Barney I sold out the LGBT community by pushing Hill out Frank, nope the low income home seekers are on their own for the first time, b/c many good hearted lifelong liberals are sick of being called racists for the glory of Uhhbama and will be in the GOP camp for years to come…very sad what is happening.
if we are all struggling to get by on SS privatized world of Uhhbama and his 7% GDP giveaway to the world we will hold onto our little piece of pie that much tighter and frankly lots of goodwill has been jettisoned in the name of THE ONE….
yup….I just posted on another thread to someone who said, “You should be logical and vote your interests!” that if I’m totally self-interest motivated, then McCain has me in the bag.
Good grief. His capital gains tax alone will hurt most small investors far more than it will affect the money boyz.
obama is so not suited to be president that it is breath taking.
The money boys will just move their money. They can afford to. Mom and Pop don’t have off-shore accounts.
Exactly, Hope! This part of his tax plan makes me wildly angry. He’s going to blow it for so many of us who have small investment retirement accounts. *arrrrggggghhhhh*
I’ll let the younger well-heeled discuss the tax rate increase. That doesn’t hit me.
He’s also talking about going BACK to that hideous estate tax. Oh lordy, it took years to get that thing knocked out. Worst dang thing for middle-class families on record. Yeah, right make us all spend half the inheritance on probate. No wonder his bundlers are mostly lawyers. Here’s comes the payoff.
I don’t know, although she scatter hit some of the things I think most of us felt at one time or another, she definitely missed the mark in her conclusion that we have no where else to go. This makes me think it’s just more media propaganda.
Here’s a rebuttal at Huffpo no less, and is worth the hit even though I usually avoid that site like the plague:
http://tinyurl.com/43w7we
I am one of those Hillary women who will never support or vote for Obama. Angry? You betcha at the hypocrisy of the Democratic Party’s mantra “count all the votes” and they didn’t in Florida and Michigan.
But even Kos and Moveon.org is ‘upset’ realizing that his group “doesn’t have much choice” and many of those so-called young progressives are angry at Obama’s vote to continue FISA. Obama is not presidential material. Period.
The Democratic Party in its lust for power and control are trying to DUPE us, the AA votes etc, disenfranchizing millions of women and will cut their nose off to spite their face. Howard Dean and Obama need to step down. They both underestimated that many Americans still believe in principles, truth, honesty, the American way, over any party loyalty.
NOBAMA!
I agree I will never support Obama.
http://nocache.homestead.com/nativeamericansagainstobama/index.html
Interesting that you mentioned FISA and MoveOn.org. Here’s part of the text included in MoveOn’s recent e-mail concerning it:
On Friday, House Democrats caved to the Bush administration and passed a bill giving a get-out-of-jail-free card to phone companies that helped Bush illegally spy on innocent Americans.1
This Monday, the fight moves to the Senate. Senator Russ Feingold says the “deal is not a compromise; it is a capitulation.”2 Barack Obama announced his partial support for the bill, but said, “It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses.”3
Last year, after phone calls from MoveOn members and others, Obama went so far as to vow to “support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.”4 We need him to honor that promise.
Can you call Senator Obama today and tell him you’re counting on him to keep his word? Ask him to block any compromise that includes immunity for phone companies that helped Bush break the law.
It’s really amazing that MoveOn.org (which formally endorsed Obama before SuperTuesday) finds itself having to get members (who, in theory, were responsible for the endorsement itself) to contact Obama to make sure he votes the “right way”. Obama was supposed to be THE “progressive candidate”, the one who stood for a complete and total reversal of all of Dubya’s failed policies. And now, they’re reduced to issuing a plea for Obama to stick to his earlier word. It’s almost ironic, in a way.
How about the hypocrisy of a candidate who said :
“It’s clear, this election [Michigan]is not gonna count for anything” ?
that’s what they were TOLD you dummy
they all were told that
they were all LIED TO
NO ONE read the rules
if they had
none of this would have ended like this
What is “that” ?
Who are “they”
What “rules”
It look like my link does not work. Censorship ? Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULxxBz-PAjg
the DNC – DEAN
rules and stupid bylaws committee
Oh, you mean the Rules and Bylaw Commitee who decided in August 2007 to penalize Florida and Michigan at near unanimity (minus one Obama supporter).
They were told that their delegates would not be seated and every candidates pledged in writing not to campaign and participate.
Hillary said it herself :
“It’s clear, this election [Michigan]is not gonna count for anything”
(New Hampshire Public Radio 10/11/07)
Did Michigan in the end count for anything? No. It looks like Hillary Clinton was a veritable Cassandra then. Except she didn’t see Michigan counting for Obama who removed his name from the ballot and was somehow given four of her delegates in addition to 50 from people who never voted for him.
Rule 11 clearly prohibits primaries or caucuses from being held prior to the first Tuesday in February, except in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina, each of which is assigned very specific limits on when they may hold their contests.
According to Rule 11, Iowa could hold its caucus no earlier than January 14, New Hampshire no earlier than January 22, and South Carolina no earlier than January 29.
Further, in accordance with Rule 20.C: “The number of pledged delegates elected … shall be reduced by 50 percent.”
The DNC and the RBC broke its own rules and fixed an election for an entirely unsuitable candidate who could not win on his own merit. According to the rules, five states broke them and only one state had a legitimate excuse – Florida’s date was set by the Republican state legislature.
IA, SC, NH and MI should have had 50% of their delegates stripped from the get go, no ifs ands or buts. Those were the rules.
First Obama was not the only one to remove his name from the ballot, Edward did it to.
Second, the RBC voted on three resolutions, one by Clinton’s campaign, one by Obama’s campaign and one by the Michigan Democratic Party.
From what I know of the RBC meeting, Obama’s resolution could have passed 14-13. Instead, Obama’s supporters (and some of Clinton’s) preferred the Michigan Democratic Party’s resolution by 18-9.
Anyway,nobody should have been given delegates from Florida and Michigan
Right. Edwards, Dodd, Biden and Obama all voluntarily removed their names from the Michigan ballot. Somehow you Lemmingcrats think if everyone else does it, it’s ok.
This was a calculated move to throw out votes in Michigan and pander to voters in Iowa. Not only that, but with four absent candidates, how can Obama claim Michigan’s uncommitted voters. That breaks, in fact, the Democratic charter.
I’m talking about rules here. They are supposed to be universally enforced to avoid these debacles. According to the rules, out of the five states who broke them, only Florida could be waived, as the Dems in that state did everything they could to comply. Florida delegates should all have been seated.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re just repeating the memos faxed out from the Obama camp.
How many persons voted for Clinton when they did not find the name of their candidates on the ballot ?
How many Democrats voted Republicans in Michigan ?
The Michigan Democratic Party’s solution was a flawed solution to a flawed primary.
They were seated, with an half-vote. If I remember well, the decision of the RBC was unanimous.
Maybe. Politics is not my field.
ad hominem
zerostress ..you don’t knwo what the hell you are talking about..i suggest you go to the FDP web site and read the damn facts before you spew anymore of your totally incorrect bullshit here.
fly.. a 2004 elected dem delegate for the state of Fla.
How about the hypocrisy of a candidate
Zero…I lifted your words out of context..change the meaning of your response???
I’ve tried to find the whole interview at NHPR to read it full. No success. If you find it, be sure to let me know.
Some more quotes:
“THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge
[emphasis is mine] in any state which schedules a presidential
election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa,
Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as “campaigning” is defined by
rules and regulations of the DNC.”
Context is there : http://tinyurl.com/33xllv
Neither candidate campaigned in FL or MI. There is still a primary, though, and names were on the ballots. Signing a pledge to not campaign is not the same as scrapping an election.
I know that in Florida, they had at the same time an election on a tax proposal. I do not think that the result of that election were invalidated by the RBC’s ruling.
I’m not sure I get your argument here. I don’t understand why people are upset about the fact that Michigan and Florida are getting a half-vote for their delegates while they supposed to get none.
The popular vote always stands. The rules only apply to the delegates. Florida should have had all their delegates seated. Michigan should only have had half their delegates stripped. I already posted Rule 20.C. What is so difficult about reading for you?
But barky DID campaign in FL and should have been disqualified with no votes and no delegates.
According to the 2007 RBC’s rulings, nobody should had any votes and/or delegates.
The RBC broke the rules. That’s why Ickes said he would take it to the credentials committee. Arlen Specter, a Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, has stated he is open to holding hearings on the DNC and RBC decisions on Michigan and Florida.
change the subject, troll. this one is a loser for you. And here you are trying to defend a corrupt politician and a corrupt party leadership. Stalin would like you.
How’s that FISA reversal doing for you? How about the blank check on Iraq funding? How about that fake presidential seal behind which Obambi was pretending to be president?
you’ve already failed in your troll duties today. I’d say you scored a ZERO.
Like I said her in a previous thread last night, it is quite a deception. It’s true also that I never thought he was the Messiah so I am not in mourning. I just think that he is the best candidate in this race
The funding of the war in Iraq ? I expect him to vote for it. I expect also Hillary to vote for it.
A very bad PR move.
Nobody in their right minds believed Obama actually stood for reform, ethics or judgment. So you can relate to Obama and his self-serving politics. We appreciate your candor.
The DNC and the Michigan Deocratic Party had two choices, they cound count the votes as they were cast, or they could NOT count the votes as cast. They decided to CHANGE the votes that were cast. This is what happens in Banana Republics and this is what the DEMS have become, they have lost my support after voting for Dems for 35 years.
So, NoQuarter is starting to remove my comments.
I understand them, truth is so annoying, can’t have that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULxxBz-PAjg
burp.
best to get rid of farts as they are smelly and don’t mean anything but rotting from within. why do you think Obama’s kids call him “stinky”?
Get the rest of the quote and will see that Senator Clinton wanted the votes counted in Michigan and in fact was saying that the voters MUST have their votes counted.
Quit pushing BS ok?
Like I said, I could not find the complete interview at NHPR. If you know where it is, please let me know. I will gladly read it, since I am a firm believer in accuracy and fairness.
People here quote 30 seconds of 10-14 minutes of a Reverend Wright’s sermon daily so spare me the “quoting out of context” crap.
you can always leave, stinky.
Your excuse for printing a half quote that is deliberately misleading is that you feel hearing the entirety of Rev. Wright’s sermons justify his racist, sexist and unpatriotic comments?
Which part before or after GODDAMN AMERICA USA OF KKK makes it salient political commentary… in a church?
Which part of “Hillary Clinton ain’t never been called a nigger” made that comment any less sexist or racist?
Fuck their “no choice” argument. It’s an election. There are two names on the ballot. I’m going to vote for John McCain, because he is the better choice. The last group’s approval I want is the MoveOn crowd or the regulars at the Orange Satan.
they, the media Renfields of Uhhbama, seem to think that women are incapable of thinking past their uteri.
They seem to think we are children and cant grasp the bigger picture. It is the very fact that we DO in fact see life beyond our personal genders that we are NOT VOTING FOR your phony Dem your friedmanite lovin progressive poser candidate folks so get over it yourselves, we dont want him and we wont pull a lever for him.
we see the WORLD not just our selves, unlike most of you media hacks.
We see the DANGERS inherent in putting a totally unqualified puppet with radical associates in the position of greatest power on the planet, yes we do..
our eyes have seen beyond our selves, and THAT is why we DO NOT AND WILL NOT SUPPORT OBAMA, period
(added that period just for Uhhbama, snark)
and where is oprah these days? i mean he is the chosen one to her. she’s a free woman as she says and those so called ignorant white women who made her sooooooo successful shouldn’t stop her. right? it seems when oprah saw her numbers dropping like dead flies, she was seen no more.
Truth, every single word. Agreed.
She OBVIOUSLY didn’t interview anyone for that piece of garbage. She could have gone to the PUMA web site and talked to PUMA members to get actual FACTS, but she chose to make it all up as she went along.
The MSM will let it be known just how HUGE PUMA is AFTER BO is the nominee….should he be allowed to steal the nomination in August.
Fantastic post, Charles!
Buzzkill? Grumpy Old Ladies? Clinton’s vote “skewed female?” (Um, didn’t Obama’s vote “skew young” and “skew black” a lot more that Clinton’s “skewed female?”)
I couldnt’ get through the whole article. I would have burst a blood vessel. This 44-year old white male was for Hillary and will not vote for Obama, and certainly articles like this one don’t come close to changing my mind.
Traister is just another in a long line of people that don’t get it.
Lacking integrity themselves they simply don’t see the corruption of the Democratic Party as a problem. Like Obamacrats, they don’t care.
We do. And PUMAs will not fall in line and will not love to vote for Obama come November. She writes a bunch of bullsh*t without understanding what the hell she’s writing about. This is worthy of Salon? but then they printed little Wally Shapiro’s piece of crap too.
Hey Joan is this what Salon has descended to? Pity. Whatever comes close to Obama becomes tainted.
This is the kind of article that Ms. Traister hopes will advance her career with the MSM. She is probably right about that. The country can be flushed down the terlet with the economy but Ms. Traister will get a job with MSNBC.
“Lacking integrity themselves they simply don’t see the corruption of the Democratic Party as a problem.” You are right about that.
yeah, she so wants to be on countdown. one can almost hear her panting.
You’re too smart for the Obama bamboozlers, you (according to his advisor Samantha Powers and the real reason he canned her hateful ass):
Archie Bunker Types!
Not really a gal thing.
BO’s such a puss, he makes my gay hairdresser look tough.
right on John, my husband feels the same way.
Sure we’re mad about the MSM misogyny and the Dems lack of response, BUT–WE’RE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR OBAMA BECAUSE WE DON’T KNOW WHERE THE FLIP-FLOPPING BAMBOOZLER STANDS ON THE ISSUES!!!! AND THE FACT THAT HE HAS FRIENDS THAT ARE ANTI-WHITE RACE BAITERS AND ANTI-AMERICAN TERRORISTS MAKES US WONDER JUST WHERE HIS PRIORITIES REALLY ARE!!!!
You cannot believe anything he says, changes his mind whenever it is good for him!
http://nocache.homestead.com/nativeamericansagainstobama/index.html
Besides not being qualified for POTUS, I don’t think Obama has earned the title of United States Senator.
And as far as voting for him:
“I’d have ta, I’d have ta think about that. I’d have ta THINK about, um ah, policies, his approach, ah, his tone”
Betty – Yesterday I was subjected to a guest editorial in my state’s newspaper, written by a man no less, which basically said that thinking women will vote for Barack Obama. This was in the first sentence of the article. I read the rest of it through a red haze. The arrogant bastard talked about “a certain sisterhood” among women, and that “if thinking women decide they really want Obama to win, he will win”. He also said, “We (you) need to win this, gals.”
Are these guys clueless or what? Why do they think a condescending tone will make us gals come right on over to their side? All it made me want to do is track the idiot down and stick his article in a strategic location!
They’ve been pushing that “smart people voting for Obama trope since he started running. More slogans and platitudes from the campaign for another dimwit in the White House. Gag me with a spoon.
wac for hillary;
Seems like Women are “feeling” not thinking. The man is an igit to believe this crap. Saying that stereotypical nonsense will make you vote for “your sisterhood” (read BO) ? So just like AA votes of Skin color, if one votes based on gender
BO will win?
UG.
Gals? I’m getting madder by the minute here,
And here’s the link to the article of which she speaks:
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/Editorial/229496/
And here’s a quote from the first part of the editorial. This guy is so clueless, there are only two possibilities: (1) we have found Barack Obama’s head speech writer or (2) he is actually working for McCain to piss women off at Obama even further.
I’m pretty pissed off by Obama’s stand on FISA, public financing, and withdrawing troops.
But I guess that now means I’m bitter, old, and stupid.
Guess I better change my mind. Wouldn’t want to be a buzzkill.
What is this? It is a Presidential race or American Idol? Oy.
I’m with you, Roseeriter. It’s time to just say NO. And it’s not just women ‘older than 30′ as this little ‘Becky’ states. It’s a big cross segment of the ‘old’ Democratic party. It’s concerned Dems of all races and ethnic backgrounds. It’s men and women. But the best way to do it is with facts. I know it’s posted elsewhere on this site, but I just subscribed to videos on YouTube from a member named bigticer. I linked to them here: http://www.theotherdemocrats.com/index.php?showtopic=148 and we absolutely have to get this information out to everyone we know. It’s a bare-bones, plain-spoken, clearly delineated list of responses to Obama-bots talking points. What I like is that there’s not a single ‘hate video’ on his list. It features positive ways to counter the Bot’s talking points (as if they’d listen or comprehend.) But the best thing is that it is a great way to present the truth to those who are not decided.
Please add the links to all blogs, message boards, emails and websites. (It’s probably easier to cut ‘n’ paste them from the website link above than here.)
http://www.TheOtherDemocrats.com
I’ve watched his videos and he is quite impressive. It takes a lot of courage to speak out as he has (remember Tavis Smiley?).
He says what I’m thinking and he says it well.
yup, that was a good video. it gives me hope along with bloggers like sugar.
When is John Kerry’s primary? Is it before the Denver convention?
I wonder how all of our entrenched, deaf and dumb representatives will feel if Kerry goes down for backing Obama.
MA seems a good place to send a message from.
Kerry’s approval ratings are down. However, O’Reilly is going to be outspent and isn’t doing so hot in the polls…..20 points behind.
He’ll be on the November ballot. I would LOVE to see him lose to O’Reilly! Here’s O’Reilly’s web site if you’d like to dinate.:)
http://www.edoreilly.com/
correction: dinate = donate…sheesh. MUST remember to use spell check!
I’m simply ecstatic to see the disapproval ratings of Kerry. His move here was obviously not popular with his state.
That thrills me. The MA Dems are seeing what we’re seeing.
I just stumbled upon this video from a Kerry event in 07 I think. It is awful!
It is actually in english. This is terrible!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmwrc7CMHCc
I would love to see Kerry voted out of office. That man always gave me the creeps.
Hope…..I voted for him ever so reluctantly. LOL*
I just don’t like the suit.
It’s a gut thingy.
LURCH! Except Lurch had sex appeal. Kerry has all the allure of a limp fish.
lol! Love it!
“Nowhere else to go?” these people are going to be Shocked, SHOCKED I say, when reality jumps up and bites them in the ass.
I hope it’s a Tex-Rex that does the biting!
I think I meant T-Rex.
The “no where else to go” argument is what they’re counting on. It’s a crock. We do have somewhere else to go and that’s voting for McCain.
So far, he’s said nothing to make me not prefer him over Obama. Fox News talking points are that Obama is the “risky” candidate.
I call him risky, scary, corrupt (and proud of it), racist, flip-flopping, manipulative, without any integrity or honor.
Here’s what David Brooks said in the NY Times (I don’t get NYT, but the column was featured in my local paper.) about BO’s massive flip-flop on public financing.
Taylor Marsh, in her newfound love for Obama, gives BO a complete pass on this one, saying he’s refusing public financing so he can win.
He is flip-flopping so he can win. duh… that’s why people run for office. To win and have power.
Brooks is complimentary of Obama as all media is. Trying to make it look like Obama is tough rather than hypocritical. That kind of GE money is not a small advantage, it’s huge. It allows Obama to control the media message which is how he got the primary. Do you think Obama would have gotten the primary without the money and the media with him 24/7?
I’m not angry… I’m mostly apathetic. I knew I wouldn’t vote for Obama because of his record. Some said he just wasn’t ready, but I thought he would never have a record, he just isn’t interested in ’serving’ the people. Now, I dislike him and with everything I know, he would never be qualified.
I thought this site had a post about not being angry but being focused on issues?
Yes, this site is like Kos. The fact that people keep screaming at every post shows that.
History does show that people go back to their party. We’ll just have to wait to see if it happens this time. I’d rather have McCain so the Dems are slapped down and quit putting up weak candidates but I expect the majority to cave and vote for Obama. There is too much info about Obama to wade through. They will vote against McCain rather than for Obama.
I am terrified of an Obama administration rubber stamp Congress. The Dems have not done their jobs and should not be given unchecked power. The party leadership failed the test for whether it could be trusted with both Congressional houses and the executive branch. It failed. As usual.
The Dems in Congress should be embarrassed with an approval rating lower than Bush’s. I worry about Obama using all those power-grabbing laws, executive orders, and signing statements Bush has inserted into our government.
yes I am concerned about the executive order as well. I have those concerns posted at my website. I have not seen any others posting these questions. We need a serious question and answer session about this. Read Urgent Every Citizen must read at http://www.hillaryloyalistnowformccain.com
anyone know how tm’s current vistor numbers are doing. she was at the top for awhile, but i rather think she is back in the cellar where she belongs.
I haven’t been back to TM since she said she would invite Obama bloggers. I almost left before that, when she had a fit because people were telling the truth about Ted Kennedy. But no, so eager was she to be a good party girl, she beckoned the Obama boys in BEFORE Hillary pulled out of the race!!! After the Hillary supporters had only gathered at her site in the first place to get away from their horrible behavior. TM just wants a job. They all do, that’s why they can’t even wait until the body is cold before moving on to serve the victor. Hail Party! I think it was a lost opportunity, personally. She’ll never be able to compete with the Obama boy bloggers, they won’t let her into the club because she’s a woman – maybe she can get the boys coffee.
Well, I am not seeing why this article is angering people. Just the last sentence? Where it’s suggested that people will vote for Obama?
True the article is not saying we will vote for Obama. However, it’s tone is dismissive and almost derisive.
It paints us as angry but, IMHO, for all of the wrong reasons. It doesn’t mention any policy or positions. It just lists persons and why we’re “mad” at them.
It’s condescending at best and insulting at the worst.
I don’t see that at all. I thought she captured a lot of what people felt and what I’ve seen said a lot.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.
But this about a lot more that just being “mad” at certain individuals. It’s also about doing a 180 on key policy positions and disenfranchising certain states.
She also doesn’t mention that two groups of key Obama supporters, Kos and MoveOn, are also angry with him now.
No one was quoted and apparently none of these “mad” voters were interviewed.
If you’re going to talk about the reasons for peoples’ anger shouldn’t you talk to some them?
I suspect she read the blogs and went from there.
But hey, no harm, no foul.
True……but the article is focused on the grassroots groups that sprung up.
You are full of shit if you can’t see the condescending tone. Don’t become a ‘concern troll’ even if you are alledgly a McCain supporter.
Stop being a WUSS, a fence-sitter.
You should read it again to get some clairty.
Well, I guess I’ll be in the minority on this one. I liked the Salon article myself. She captured a lot of what I felt about various aspects of the race.
She didn’t go into what about Obama was not OK, but the other part was pretty close to my feelings, anyway.
You will find most journalists loathe to go into why Obama is NOT OK. I found the whole article entirely too subjective to be credible.
most of the media are scared of being harrassed. now isn’t that special? a chicken media and tough ladies going to bat for our country. how about a really good hbo special on us?
These people are what is wrong with America.
All anyone gets is their wack-o opinions based on nothing that resembles the truth or fact.
Please see and pass around:
http://www.nobamanetwork.com/
it is hard to move around on the nobama blog. i am wondering if there is a security wall to protect it. i wouldn’t blame them of course.
Someone tell Al Sharpton to shut up!
An impossible mission at best.
This is the crux of how important this election is to the women’s movement. Men only take you seriously, if they think you can leave them at any time, and if you have something they want.
Right now they are saying Hillary will be blamed if Obama loses. Her supporters will be blamed. Old white bitter women will be blamed. They will be respected in future elections. All women will then be respected in future elections. They are telling you they believe you will do as your told. Prove them wrong, and they will quit taking you for granted.
“You’re told”… need coffee.
As long as Obama loses, they can call me anything they want to.
Traister, as well as her article, is full of crap. She hasn’t the slightest understanding of what she is supposedly writing about.
does anyone have an email address for this writer? i want to send her an email. of course, i think courtesy but firmness applies. we are after all not obamatrons.
she thoughtfully put it in the body of her article :0)
Charles Lemos, thanks for deconstructing a stupid piece of writing. I want to add a few points.
1. Yes, this has to do with race for me. BO is the first Affirmative Action candidate. He is the worst of the worst for African Americans who have used Affirmative Action to get a leg up in this tough society. He has no generation-to-generation African-American experience to communicate to a national audience. He is a first generation Muslim-African (Islamic-Luo-Kenya)candidate in one-half of his DNA. African Americans should have someone to be proud of as their candidate. Instead they have the ONLY INEXPERIENCED, UNQUALIFIED, AND ILLEGITIMATE CANDIDATE that a major party ever has forced upon the national stage — using his “race” as a battering ram.
2. I agree that Dean and the DNC leadership have chosen BO with which to destroy democracy within the Democratic Party.
3. I, for one, am upset with Clinton. I think she became an excellent candidate because of the race she had to run. However, she began too soft and nice and ended that way, too. What other Dem Party candidate would have folded when she did just because the party elders told her to — for unity, for winning, for the good of the Party? She should have told them F— O–, like all candidates that close to victory have always said.
I expect the unqualified, pathological liar with a grandiose ego to deconstruct by August. I remain angry that Dean, the Dem Party loser-leaders, the pseudo-progressive blogosphere, and the MSM have foisted this Nothing upon us. If he is not out by August, the Republicans will have a field day and we (former) Dems will want to hide our heads in shame.
Do you think this has all been a Republican plot to destroy the Democratic Party? Or have we done it all ourselves? Outrageous and Unbvelievable.
ChumpedDemocrat, I loved your comments. With comments like yours, I do not have to run my blood pressure up to something similar. Kudos to you!
Best Regards,
Check077
My email to Rebecca Traister:
Ms. Traister,
I read with interest your article, Why Clinton voters say they won’t support Obama. I found it very interesting, if mostly wrong.
I am a Clinton supporter who will not be voting for Barack Obama. It’s not because I’m angry that my choice for candidate lost. Nor do I want Senator Obama to choose Senator Clinton as his running mate (it won’t change my mind about not voting for him). I’m certainly not angry at either President Clinton or Senator Clinton. Ms. Traister, I’m not angry or sad or mad at all.
I have a very simple reason for not voting for Barack Obama. I don’t feel he is qualified to be the President of the United States. It’s really quite that simple. In my opinion, he does not have what it takes to be the leader of the free world. Not at all.
And, Ms. Traister, I do have choices. I can vote for John McCain (and please don’t hold that tired old argument about women’s rights over my head; that’s been done to death). I can vote for a 3rd party candidate. I can write in Senator Clinton’s name. Or I can vote down-ticket only.
But let me be very clear about this. I’m not “a sure thing.” I won’t “fall in line.” When I say I won’t vote for Barack Obama, I’m saying it very calmly, not “kicking and screaming.” I’m saying it based upon my very firm belief that Barack Obama does not represent my core values, not by a long shot. I’ve had over a year to watch him, to listen to him, to evaluate him, and each day that passes my conviction that he is not anywhere near ready to be President is strengthened.
Will a large number of the 18 million Hillary Clinton supporters vote for Barack Obama? Probably. But if even 20% of those 18 million choose not to vote for him, he’s lost. And it won’t be because we’re angry, or sad, or mad, but because we don’t believe he’s ready or qualified to be President.
Oh, and by the way, P.U.M.A. stands for “People United Means Action” (although I do love the rallying cry of Party Unity My Ass!).
Sincerely,
A Proud PUMA Member
Thank you for saying this. These are my thoughts, exactly.
Excellent letter. I hope she reads and understands it. I wonder if she even bothered to interview any of the PUMA members?
What values are you talking about when you say he doesn’t share your values?
Not that my values are any of your concern, but I’ll offer just a few values I hold dear:
Honesty
Loyalty
Truthfullness
Intolerance of sexism
Intolerance of racism
Values that I’ve not seen exhibited my Senator Obama.
And this will be the last of my communication on this.
let’s see if she responds. i am surprised by those that do and don’t. ms huffington actually responded to me once. of course that was in ancient times before this election. it was a very friendly exchange.
Carol, thanks for the link to nobamanetwork.com. Excellent work.
The author forgot number 13
We are angry at the DNC
http://www.obama-wire.com
I think I understand why the DNC had to choose Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton. The majority of Clinton’s voters vote for her based on her policies, most of them are also very active in politics. Because they are so active, sitting out of an election is generally not an option. Barack Obama supporters on the other hand are made up of people who are excited about the candidate. They are typically not very active in politics. If the DNC did not back Obama, many African Americans and young people simply will not bother to vote come November. As Senator Obama has stated himself, Hillary will not be able to get his supporters. The DNC has estimated that that even if Hillary supporters are angry now, they will return to the fold, as they simply have no other alternatives.
That was the meme, for sure. The notion that a lot of younger voters would not be involved was what they liked, and I like it, too.
However, we’ve had candidates in the past who have roused the youth….and lost soundly in the Fall.
It’s high, high risk.
Yeah. There was one who, not so long ago, actually could have won the election thanks to the young (18-25) voters if his opponent hadn’t managed to rouse an even larger number of evangelicals (thanks in large part to the sheer number of states putting anti-same-sex marriage amendments on the ballot). The man’s name? John Kerry.
There were numerous reports of young people standing in line well past the official poll closing times, waiting to vote, with many of them becoming discouraged only when the clock started approaching midnight.
And, of course, there were all the enthusiastic young McGovern voters in 1972; it was just the before that the voting age had been lowered to 18. The new youth vote turned out, but not enough to really help. (The Democrats had two other significant problems: The Watergate break-in was one and the VP selection was the other.)
African Americans make up close to 30% of the Democrat base. The DNC can’t afford to lose that base.
I’m pretty sure that’s not a correct percentage. I believe it is more like 12%.
I think your percentage is a lot closer than FF’s.
waaaaaayyyy off on that number
It’ s more than a risk. It’s the height of stupidity, and they know it. The youth vote will not drive this election and blacks make up 13% of the population in big cities and in states Dems always carry.
Ever hear of 3rd party candidates?
Well, that’s where this ex-Democrat will be putting the weight of his vote come November. (Sorry all, can’t do the Republican thing, although I know the math in that regard.)
3rd party seems like a reasonable “alternative” to me. After all, that’s what they are there for.
It is beyond presumptuous to assume that a Democrat will always be a Democrat, or a Republican will always be a Republican.
I’m not coming back to the fold.
3rd party candidates have no chance of winning. You can’t change anything if you don’t win.
uhhhh…? The Dems won’t change IF they win. By voting for them, you are supporting the corruption of the party, you are supporting a govt that refuses to uphold Dem principles.
The idea that you can only change a party from the inside is contradictory to logic in the extreme. Vote for them and then whine to them in an e-mail… and they will change their behavior? What a joke.
The biggest smack down of govt ever seen would be the failure of the Dems to achieve the WH when they had everything in their favor. The Dem party has shown itself corrupt by selecting Obama who has nothing to offer this country.
A vote for anyone bu McCain is a vote for Obama. If you lived in Illinois, I would say go for it. Vote Libertarian or Green and show the establishment. If you live in a battleground state and vote third party you are voting for Obama.
You still have your head in the sand, eating up Obami’s propaganda. He truly has you brain washed.
Do not doubt for a moment that Obama will lose by a landslide.
PUMAs will make sure this will happen.
Yes, women will have to sacrifice (maybe) Roe vs Wade this time around (but then, Roe vs Wade has survived 30+ years, so I think it is a non issue).
We will make some sacrifices to achieve the great common good of not electing the scoundrel that is Obama.
BTW, you are sexist – why refer to Obama as senator while referring to Senator Clinton as Hillary.
What gives you the right to that kind of familiarity?
Obama is a first term Senator with minimal accomplishments. Hillary Clinton is a 2 term Senator with 35 years of experience and accomplishments.
You know, if you like others to stop playing the race card on you, you should stop playing the gender card.
I think the DNC is well aware of what would happen if it didn’t back Obama when he has well over 90% of the African American support. The Democrat party will not only lose the black vote this fall, but it will lose it for a generation. The DNC also knows that Clinton supporters will be angry, but they are too active in politics to quit, and the core differences too great to vote for McCain.
Dude, it’s the DemocratIC Party, not the Democrat Party.
A member of the Party (or one who’s affiliated with it) is a Democrat. The Party itself, however, is the Democratic Party.
Sounds like someone who presents himself as an Obama supporter might just actually be a Republican troll.
As to your asinine “lose the black vote . . . for a generation” comment, if Hillary’s supporters can’t vote for a third-party candidate because as you posted earlier
Comment by Freedom Fighter | 2008-06-24 09:51:48
3rd party candidates have no chance of winning. You can’t change anything if you don’t win.
who the hell are Black voters going to vote for in the future? The Republicans haven’t managed to crack 10% of the African-American vote in a Presidential election due to the Party’s glaring lack of concern for African-Americans since the 1980s (even J C Watts warned the GOP years ago about what HE saw as open hostility to African-Americans, and he was the ONLY African-American Republican serving in Congress).
African American voters are much more likely to not vote if Obama was not the nominee than Hillary voters if Hillary were not the nominee.
Republicans don’t really care if African Americans vote or not, since they have been winning presidential elections without them.
AA voters are as consistent as white voters. I think that voting predictability has to do with past behavior and age more than race.
I only agreed with Obama that the youth vote would likely not show up for Hillary. But that was also the smallest percentage throughout the primaries……FAR less than the older voters, who I can predict will vote Republican this year if McCain makes sure that his SS policy is safe, and he will.
yes and thanks to your geniuses at the DNC the LATINAS a MUCH LARGER VOTING block than AAs will happily vote McCain as will I and millions like me
and we will be GOP for generations
THIS is why the RUSH to get UUHHBAMA in now Queen Donna was weepy over losing her vaunted status as mouthpiece for the largest minority
guess what they ARENT the largest minority, Latinas are, and they are supporting mccain now that Hillary is out
so put that in your peace pipe and smoke it!!
AND you have that ass backwards BUDDY
EXIT POLLS you know so accurate that the RBC can steal votes based on them, yeah, well EXIT POLLS showed AAs would vote for Hill and Hill voters WOULD NOT vote for Uhhbama
get your facts straight buddy
buddy the new my friends, gender and race neutral I like it
In other words, blacks are too lazy to vote. The women will do as they’re told. Nice.
You are a fucktard F.F. The AA voters always voted for the Dem candidate. They’d vote for Hillary in the same percentage. Since McCain is not your average craven foaming at the mouth Republican, they might not have the urgency to vote against him. They have been given poison by Obama and his supporters. I can only hope the AA voters turn on Obama like angry hornets once the TRUTH is forced out.
The DNC is making a very bad mistake by thinking that Hillary supporters have no alternatives other than Obama. My alternative is John McCain unless he picks some crazed evangelical for his running mate. Regardless, my choice will still not be Obama.
I love it when they keep isnisting we have no choice, nothign makes me feel more like singing Cumbayah than when they throw my ovaries at me as ammunition
Frak that
they are really that stupid I take it
okay I will be LOVIN EVERY MINUTE OF IT come November
they can wander in the desert for 40 years -the dopey Dems who lost: women, and Latinas, Catholics, “ethnic’ voters, and the working class for generations in this election
hey maybe they will then get some frakkin empathy for Israel again, the heard hearted, neoprogressive frakkers
I agree. Plus they had a media darling that was almost untouchable because of his race, and handlers that could funnel millions in unverifiable contributions through his campaign.
Better than a actor running for governor in California.
dang, your thinking is a tad faulty there. the obama supporters are just that obama supporters. the young have the attention span of rabbits in heat and aren’t democrats. they won’t be there down the road and neither will the core dems leaving in droves. the aa’s are more likely to come back and vote for hillary than we for obama. after all bill clinton was a great friend to the aa community. overall they sure haven’t been there for the clintons this election. obama hasn’t done one damx thing for the aa’s. i find their support without viable reasons other than color disgusting.
All those obamaites who cried about Hillary’s Iraq vote better not be hypocrites and go to the primaries for O’Reilly! Or else they are all a bunch of liars.
Yes, I’m coming around, I’m coming around the fence and falling in line behind McCain supporters. I think the Democrats are pulling a Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz. If you chant it enough times, they are hoping something might happen as a result. The problem is, unlike Dorothy who just wants to be home, the rest of us recognize that the Dem house of cards ain’t home after all.
and best of all!!! we can once and for all BURY the frakkin ROE card, its like a G-D race card they play on us and I for one am SICK OF THIS SHXT (To quote rev wright LOL)
NARAL can close up shop it will cease to exist
the cat is out of the bag DEMS maroons
GOP wont outlaw abortion they raise too much money and EVEN SCALIA says it is stare decisis
DEMS wont ever protect us totally cause they too used it for generations to keep us in check or so they think
well OPRAH told us WE ARE FREE WOMEN did you get the memo team Democrats?? we dont have to vote as WOMEN per OPRAH
okay then just checkin
now everybody leave your ovaries at the door and pull that lever for McCain!!
Yeh, both sides using issues that aren’t going to change. It has never affected my vote only people who vote on single issues. Which unfortunately there are many.As far as Noprah no more, she will be one of the ones with much voters remorse when she sees her empire fall.
” I think the Democrats are pulling a Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz.”
More like the Wizard from the Wizard of Oz – smoke and mirrors with someone behind the curtain pulling the strings.
the more obama shows his backside the more i think mccain is a viable alternative. obama is no kennedy. he is no clinton. he is a one term (not finished, non committee holding, arrogant unqualified) senator.
BUZZKILL? The Buzzkill is the product that these losers have thrust upon the party and the country with such blind determination to keep anyone named “clinton” out of the White House that they don’t even bother to check the first tier of presidential qualifications. Hell, they haven’t even seen proof of birth much less cared about work he’s actually done.
The BUZZKILL is being told that we’re just acting like typical sore losers (what is really meant is petulant females), that we’re not needed until it finally dawns on them that we are, then unleashing fear tactics like a Roe v Wade reversal.
Oh yeah, I am angry, but not the way Traister thinks. And NOW, I’m even more furious for being told why I’m angry. Thank you for solidying my determination, Rebecca,NEVER OBAMA.
PUMA
I disagree. A buzzkill means we’re hurting their enthusiasm. *haha And we have!
He didn’t get the bump from winning, did he? That’s because of the “buzzkill” factor, in large part.
McCain beat him at fundraising this month. Another jolt.
Polls are showing that he’s fighting in states that he won, struggling in states where Hillary won, and this race is anything but a slam dunk.
Being buzzkill is good. It means, we’re having an impact.
THEY harshed MY BUZZ I ewas getting from my happy Hillary FDR Clinton days are back again, happy happy joy joy dance!!
but hey whatever does it for them right?
they have to make us look OLD and OUT OF TOUCH
I AM YOUNGER THAN YOUR UHHBAMA LEADER nitwits in the media and I aint buyin what youre sellin!!!!
I will make it RAIN FOR MCCAIN instead!!
let’s party with the “old man” they know how to really cut loose, everybody do the mummer strut now and take it to the polls for the GOP
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XH3lZcqqjto
LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL
BOOYAH!!!
Wrong.
Obama, Barack IL
May’08 Raised $21,889,522
May’08 Spent $25,297,245
Total Raised $287,397,945
Total Spent $244,250,611
Cash on Hand $43,147,333
Debts $304,162
McCain, John AZ
May’08 Raised $21,393,773
May’08 Spent $10,975,952
Total Raised $119,594,596
Total Spent $83,633,159
Cash on Hand $35,961,436
Debts $1,268,973
So let’s see what we have there : 500,000 more raised by Obama, 2.5 times spent by Obama, twice as much total raised by Obama, three times as much total spent by Obama, 8 millions more cash on hand by Obama, 4 times as much less debts for Obama.
I know these are the May numbers but unless you have a inside track in the Obama and McCain campaign, these are the latest numbers.
Courtesy of OpenSecret.
Wrong. Facts are there for those who want them.
Okay, I don’t have a split personality, but I agree with both of you–TexasDarlin and AnninCa.
OOPS! All those obamaites who cried about Hillary’s Iraq vote better not be hypocrites and go to the primaries for Kerry against O’Reilly! Or else they are all a bunch of liars.
Anyone who thinks the salon writer is anything but a pod brain is naive. There should be NO arguments needed that her ‘talking points’ are invalid. They are not sincere anyway and involve no genuine thought process, so why bother to defend against them?
She WAS GIVEN A JOB AND PAID TO DO IT – ie, spin something that diffuses attention from the mass Dem walk-out. Make them sound stupid and unreasonable. Ridicule them AND portray them as OLD and passe and addled.
That was her job and she did it. Of course, it bears no relation to the facts. Using a reasoning brain or researching her topic is not her job. Spinning and ridiculing is HER FUNCTION.
Just propaganda to try make dissenters believe they are in a club of losers. Straight out of the ODM 3rd world trash politics handbook. Has nothing to do with reality and we all know it.
I so disagree. Take point #11. She captured exactly what the Women Count Too group said on TV and what many of us said repeatedly about how we were treated at progressive blogs. I WAS shocked at how backwards the attitudes were toward women.
Over and over, the progressives seemed to ignore that they were slamming women, slamming older women.
It WAS highly offensive.
That one point alone in this article was excellent.
So was the one about how freaking depressing it is to have Dean and some of the media NOW talk about sexism. Excuse me. Too late!
That IS a major talking point of PUMA, too. Go read the blog’s purpose. It IS a major purpose behind the Women Count Too group.
Where’s the part where she points out all that’s lacking in Obama as a presidential candidate?
I agree with you on that criticism. It is HIGHLY annoying to see an inexperienced man be trumpeted over such a well prepared woman. That aggravated me a lot.
That point should have been in there under the “Don’t like Obama” paragraph.
Shoulda been number one.
And it has nothing to do with gender.
A candidate this weak should offend everybody.
I agree.
I am with you. We are better than that. We know what we stand for. Whether the media and the fnc want to admit to the obvious truth or not. We have made it very clear as to why it is impossible for us to support bho. I do however appreciate all of these mindless idiots telling me how I feel.LOL
Simple, Barack Obama is a fake in every respect that matters. He turns me off with his deceit, his ignornace, his whining, his arrogance, his inexperience, his lies. Single handedly, in collusion with his surrogates and the Democratic party he has made race the most divisive issue since the 60’s. And to what purpose, so that he can claim the Presidency through nefarious means.
If enough people stop sending the Democrats money, they will wonder why? Maybe getting rid of Obama and making Hillary the nominee, they may see an increase in benefits.
I’ve sent more money this morning to Hillary, and I’m canadian. I’d like to see Hillary win at the convention in August. Reading the news lately, it looks like the Dems are short of funds, and are asking Clinton backers to help out. I really hope they don’t without picking Clinton as the true nominee.
Oh, and for any who think this is about building a base of AAs and youth because the Party needs more voters, think again. These groups are not being incited to get their votes, nor to broaden the party base. They serve the purpose of amassing a potential army of terrorists to act on command (as the trolls have done here and other sites) – to intimidate and threaten obama’s agenda into power.
It is not about their votes. It is about their vulnerability to mobilization for fascist action = concentrated mob energy, no more no less.
Remember bozo’s statement in PA. We don’t need people, just checks? “Voters” are NOT people to obama, they are servants to be used for his aims – or they are enemies to be eliminated. It’s that simple and black and white (no racial pun intended.)
Want to read another Salon person telling you what you will do.
Why Clinton voters will come back to the fold
Don’t worry about those angry Hillary supporters who say they’ll vote for McCain or stay home in November. History proves they’ll vote for Obama.
By Walter Shapiro
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/06/23/clinton_voters/index.html
This article was clearly repugnant to me.
I did not have the same reaction, however, to this one. She hit some key points that I’ve heard lots of us talk about.
Even the one about Bill Clinton. A lot of my friends who voted for Hillary were really mad at him and still blame him for the loss. I don’t. But I can see their point.
I resent having Barack Obama shoved down my throat.
I resent the fact that race is used as a tool of manipulation.
I resent the fact that people claim to be able to predict how I should feel and will respond based solely on my physical characteristics.
I resent the fact that so many entities seem so willing to prostitute themselves and their principles in order to promote a candidate whose only accomplishment is running for office.
Having the nomination taken away from the most qualified candidate and given to Howard Dean’s Revenge pisses me off.
Clinton bashing pisses me off.
Not having a real chance at affordable health care pisses me off.
Bottom line, I won’t vote for Obama because I resent the fact that he pisses me off.
I resent having men telling me how I should be thinking and what I should be doing. Talk about taking us back to the Stone Age. I also resent the constant bullshit about how Hillary’s campaign will help future generations of women reach the ultimate goal. We have a woman now who is the most qualified of all of the candidates for President, so why must we wait for future generations?
We’ve done it ourselves. Rovie didn’t cook this mess up– Dean Brazille and the DNC along with the Kennedy faction wanted to push the Clintons out, I think, in jealously for being successful, for understanding that the center holds and wins and the fringe left and fringe right will never gain the great American middle at the polls. I will be voting against Obama because my country comes first, not some abstract loyalty to the party that keeps shitting on me.
Clinton can still get the nomination. Obama can not get the presidency.
It’s almost like the DNC now and the RNC of 2000 and 2004 have switched bodies–the tactics are almost identical. The only difference is the injection of faux racism and overt sexism into this election. The DNC should be so proud of being able to insert something new into the Rove playbook.
Queen Donna DID say she got help from Rove after 2000 yes she did, and Uhhbama DID have special meeting with Rove and crew in the WH yesiree bob
they gave them the playbook alright
and perhaps nothing else but our own party turning on our candidate and US the voters like this could have made me go GOP,
good job Rove you dark architecht you
it shows just how stupid donna really is to think rove is her “friend”. rove is too smart for her.
O/T
Larry, Susan..
Can you cross post Larry Sinclair’s blog today?
Or report on it?
He gives the low down (not the down low) today on what happened to him after the press conference.
This includes having been denied medication while in custody.
http://larrysinclair0926.wordpress.com
they wanted to shut him up so that the press conference got no play. let’s have the name of these dc types and what their policial affialtions are. also their bosses as they may have been following orders. can someone tell me what’s the difference between dems and bush repubs now. i don’t see one. mccain looks better with each act the dems committ.
In a year in which it was obvious to anyone with eyes, ears or a nose that the country was dying for “change,” Penn made the keen decision to sell Clinton — a history-making candidate — as an establishment player.
I think change has been over-hyped. Change only works when the incumbent is so weak that impeachment occurred. Nixon then Carter. Clinton the Bush. I know Bill Clinton was not impeached, but it looked like it was going to happen. Many Americans, in fact, think he was. Bush ran on family values and integrity. LMAO. The country has to be desperate for change. The Democrats botched that by never pursuing impeachment with Bush. Now their Congress has lower approval ratings than his.
Mark Penn had good reasons for pushing Clinton as a problem-solver and competent leader. His failure IMO was in not playing up her humanity, making her seem more emotive and accessible and dumping the strategy of inevitability much earlier in the game. Hillary is a warm and friendly person when you meet her going by the word of countless Americans who met her on the campaign trail. She struck gold in NH by letting her feelings show in NH. That was not just for women but for all Americans concerned about the country. Obama camp was furious; the media aggression heated up at that point. Instead of caving to them and continuing with Penn’s failed strategy, she should have picked up that momentum and ran with it. Then PA would have been a home run, because she could talk about growing up there and her biography. This, however, was tough because Obama had been allowed to pose a threat. The media was all over him and his train wreck of a run for the nomination. Obama, his mama and their drama. Every other day he says something stupid, she makes a bitchy comment, another old friend jumps out of the closet or his feet are God forbid held to the fire and his policy is scrutinized and found to be lacking in judgment, nuance or simple information. Obama is a joke, and there is no reason he should have gotten so far in the primaries except for PSD and Mark Penn.
Good point. One thing I never criticized Penn about was his themes for her. Yes, it’s a great year for change, but Hillary is established.
The part I was angry about Penn about was his daily talking points. He let some things get away from the campaign and focused on a lot of tit-for-tat stuff, I thought. The word is that he was difficult, too, and caused a lot of the in-fighting.
Nitpick: Bill Clinton WAS IMPEACHED. Just like Andrew Johnson. He was not convicted. Just like Andrew Johnson. The impeachment was 100 percent political. Just like Andrew Johnson’s. But it was an impeachment.
It’s so shameful how much the Democrats are ramping up the FEAR card to make women fall in line behind their golden calf with feet of clay.
Ladies, don’t fall for it! Your “rights” didn’t exactly go anywhere under Bush, and everyone with a brain knows Roe v. Wade is a necessary fundraising tool for both Republicans and Democrats.
“YOU NEVER GONNA GET AN ABORTION EVER AGAIN!!!”
“YOUR RIGHTS WILL BE TAKEN AWAY FOREVER!”
Seriously, and they have the nerve to say Republicans try to win elections through fear-mongering?
Uh….Republicans DO use fear to win elections. How else do you explain a 2nd term for Bush?
The problem is we’re learning that Democrats are willing to borrow freely from the Republican handbook. Just one more reason not to vote for either of them this year.
Since I’m now Independent, it’s easier to be objective. The Democrats are using fear more this year than the Republicans, at least so far.
See the Moveon.org ad? Totally about fear. Ditto for the Roe/Wade meme. Frankly, demonizing Republicans is the meme.
The worst was Obama’s “there will be blood in the street” meme.
Nothing but pure fear.
Agree 100%
I know that. I was trying to create a “pot/kettle” moment.
BTW…can we say, “That’s like the pot calling the kettle black” anymore… or is that verbotten as racist.
PS: I apologize for using a German word, as that may be construed as racist as well.
Don’t worry westpalm4hillary that whole notion of political correctness is over rated anyway.LOL
*hehe…..lots of our sayings involve the color black, don’t they?
I suppose we’re seeing a dramatic language shift.
I will have schadenfroid thru November as I watch them tear Uhhbama apart, so your German is safe with me, heh
I will never vote for either!!!
I have NOT forgotten that the REPUBLICAN PARTY lied us into a detour to IRAQ and NOW all these years later have bankrupted our country and our soldiers are weak and weary from being sent on their 3rd and 4th tours!! OR the GODM tax cuts for MILLIONAIRES that MCKOOK will continue!!!
I can NOT VOTE FOR THAT!!!!!!!!
but I can not vote for the kid with the cracker issues either!
I have reached the point where I could care less about these idiots who think they know why the overwhelming majority of Hillary supporters won’t vote for oloser.
The bottom line is we won’t. So what in the he– are they going to do to win in November? Hey, I know Lets just continue to undermine the very people we need to win. What dumb a–es!!!
I love hearing this kind of bs. It just helps to reassure me that my fellow lovers of democracy will not go crawling back “home”. But instead will stand firm on their convictions.
One would think that Asselnod would have oloser be quiet for awhile and try to work on real unity.
No matter. stereotype as you will. Angry, scorned, emotional, pissed off, uneducated, poor, racist, gun totin typical white girl. These words mean nothing to me. I am better than that. And yes let us not forget, I can vote. It won’t be for the party that dishonored every single American…I will vote with my brain as ignorant as they may think I am, it will be a vote against a dishonest,racist,marxist,dishonest,quasi-christian,antisemetic,dishonest,inexperienced, candidate. Oh and did I mention dishonest?
GOD BLESS AMERICA………..
God save America (from O- – -a)!
Well, I’m there, too. I don’t think explaining it will help, either. Her point, however, about the shock that we had seeing how the progressives did not care a whit about heaping sexism on by the shovel is on the money.
I am, in part, fueled by the sexism of the primary and digging in my heels because I think it’s far more important to show younger women that you do have power, you can make a difference, and you do NOT have to go along with such gross and obvious prejudice against women. Threaten with Roe vs. Wade? Shame on progressives for even trying that.
If anything, progressives should be saying, “We hear you. We are sorry. We do need to accept responsibility. We will make sure that even if Obama loses, the Congress will block any judge who appears to be anti-women’s issues.
And if they want real unity or want me to worry about their issues? That’s what will happen.
On the other side, I am equally concerned with the abuse of power by the Democratic leaders and the railroading of voters. I agreed with a poster who said it wasn’t so much a planned event as like watching a bunch of gossips in Washington play unfair and cheat. Therefore, the Democrats are off-track. They could use 4 years to regroup and think this over.
Annica-
I think to apologize for all of the racist and sexist remarks at this point would just be another ploy. Just words, no substance.
Though I share all of your concerns and am especially concerned about the young women in this country who have recieved a buzz kill.It brings back feelings of the 2 previous elections. Wow talk about disgust and buzz kill. We all had our hopes up for Hillary and all the promise of a better future with her.
It will be very important at this juncture that we encourage our young women to stand firm with there convictions. And they can do what may seem to them right now as the impossible.
Its not over till the fat lady sings. Oh Oh can I say that? I guess I can since I am both a lady and fat. LOL
weeellll Nancy Pelosi tells us today she doesnt think sexism is a big deal dn being a female has helped her
like to see Nancy sell that in a coal mining town see how far she gets as a female in a males line of work
maybe if she had been one of the first female first responders, a cop or firefighter she’d get a frakkin clue
what a POS she is, she really is
turns my stomach to see her now and I cried with joy when she took her seat as Speaker
well just like D voting, no votes for women cause theyre women or D cause they claim to be D, no more, all analysis all the time from now on
she and Clare Mckissbutt should take a LOOONNNG walk off a short pier in the bay….
When I read the article yesterday I was utterly dismayed at the obvious overlooking of why a substantial block of Hillary supporters will not vote for obama –HE IS NOT QUALIFIED and the DNC rigged it!
Here is a portion of the email I sent to Rebecca:
“How about durimg some substantive research on why someone would dare vote for Mccain over Obama even if they are registered democrats. I don’t want to shock you or anything but in America it is permissible to vote for the candidate who is not a member of your party. Google “Reagan Democrats.”
I am voting for McCain because my vote is my voice. I am speaking out against the corrupted DNC and a flawed candidate.
So tell your media buddies they can marginalize and minimize our efforts until November but it will not work. We understand what has taken place here. We understood in ‘00 and ‘04 and we understand in 2008. Too bad you refuse too. I believe that is called willful blindness”
PUMA
What a bunch of retards you are. Christ, DailyKos gets more hits in ten minutes then this shit hole of a site gets in three days. Enjoy your irrelevancy.
That, or the retards are the ones making the hits to the hate-mongering Kos site.
If it gets hits from people who use the word “retard,” then I’m grateful for the narrower audience!
Better narrow in numbers than narrow is brains, character, and judgement (ala obama).
Better narrow in numbers than narrow in brains, character, and judgement (ala obama and his followers).
A special shout out to the “non-retards” that so graciously visited our site and helping our hit count go up. Thank you. But really, you could both find something more constructive to do on your summer break. I don’t know, summer school perhaps?
Thank you. I believe I will, especially when McCain kicks Obama’s ass in the GE. I may go back to drinking kool-aid after that happy event.
“Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula? I mean, they’re charging a lot of money for this stuff.”
You are voting for this guy ? Now you call US retarded.
The point that you are all out of work and living with your parents is well taken.
Obama’s dishonesty and vast experience manifesting poor judgement are the main reasons I will never vote for him.
Wow, that’s right. He does have experience in something.
This article is largely another example of “blame the victim.” The writer missed on almost every mark, IMO. Why can’t the MSM get the simple fact that most Clinton, Edwards, etc. and even former Obama supporters (yes, some are smart enough to stop drinking the koolaid) are not voting for the Chosen One because of his mendacity and glaring lack of experience, ability, and character. The MSM is complicit in delivering this unelectable person to the masses, but they spend so much time socializing and talking to each other, avoiding us “real” people, that they have no clue what they have done or how disgusted us “bitter” folks are with their biased coverage and failure to vet their far-left darling. Most of these media types are proud graduates of far-left universities that routinely hire and promote men and woment such as Ayers and Dorn (and BO & MO). While they may not subscribe to all the gibberish that they are fed by their hate-America professors, graduates of these elite institutions are quite comfortable with the rhetoric. They are willing to give OB a pass; most probably could care less that Obama joined TUCC and sat there for 20 years, and donated large sums of money to the racist, America-hating, marxist black-libertion cult because he (and all of his far-left buddies) either subscribe to many of its tenets, and/or use the language of hate and victimology to rip off the poor followers/voters to gain political and religious power, and MONEY. Welcome to the Combine.
I can practically hear the Welcome to the Machine Floyd song playing in the background sometimes the way these guys carry on, seriously
_____________________-
what did you dream
its all right we told you what to dream
welcome
to the machine
In Obamamerica, There Won’t Be A Middle Class
http://www.backcountrynotes.squarespace.com/politics/2008/6/24/in-obamamerica-there-wont-be-a-middle-class.html
yep thats the plan alright
I can see it coming a mile away
and he is predisposed to it
Trinity UTTERLY rejects the concept of middleclassness after all
uh huh
so do Sam Zell and Rupert Murdoch..
Good interview with Russ Feingold re: FISA and public financing for GE. Amy Goodman asks strong, direct questions of Feingold re: Obama’s flip-flip on these positions:
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/6/24/feingold
The media just doesn’t get it. So dear PUMAs let’s make them get it.
As much as it makes us throw up in our mouths, Hillary has to do what she must to maintain her power (ride the Unity Pony without vomiting). It is important for all of us to remember one thing: HRC is a public servant first, and a politician second. She will do what she must to maintain her position so that she can continue to advocate for universal healthcare, human rights, etc. She is playing the hand she was dealt. If we want to help HRC then we have to play ours. That means a few things:
1) We must speak out against the coup. Riverdaughter posted the numbers. We know HRC would have been the pledged delegate leader had the RBC done its job. In my opinion this is our most important task. If the actions of May 31, 2008 stand then we might as well all move to Russia and spend the rest of our lives voting for Putin surrogates.
2) We have to help HRC pay down the debt. This does not only help her politically, it sends an undeniable statement to the FNC (Fascist National Committee), and the Obama campaign, as to where our allegiance lies. It also makes a strong statement for the political and economic power of women in general. Keep in mind that this summer marks the 160th anniversary of the first women’s conference at Seneca Falls. From its inception the women’s movement understood that economic independence is vital to building power for women in society. As supporters of the strongest woman candidate in American history I feel very strongly that we need to honor that.
3) We must ceaselessly advocate the Clinton agenda; universal healthcare, universal pre-K, economic and social equality, human rights, swift movement to energy independence and building a nuclear free green economy that creates jobs, improves our environment, and strengthens our national security.
The Clinton Nation is the most powerful political force in the country right now. We’re the ones who will decide who walks into the White House in January. We’ve got the power. I suggest we use it, and use it wisely.
I think you’re focus is excellent! Agree totally.
Shtuey – Points taken. We are the strongest force in this country past and present. Lets all continue to help her. She is not a quitter. She will do what she has to do as she always has. The PUMA POWER HOUR. I like the sound of that. Maybe we could designate an hour for on-line contributions, and just flood her site.
We’re already on it. Go here: http://heidilipotpourri.blogspot.com/
July 4, 2008, declare financial independence for HRC!
I think the person that wrote this article got all their research from MSNC. Where else could you come up with this crap.
They don’t do research. They just make it up.
“This list is not comprehensive.”
Kinda says it all, doesn’t it?
I believe McCain would work with Clinton on Health Care, and many other programs. They have admiration and respect for each other. He would work with her. McCain has NEVER been a republican follower and he wont be if elected Roe V Wade is a mute argument. With a Democratic Control house and a Liberal Conservative I think would wok fine for us. I don’t fear McCain. Obama willingness to divide us with racial labels and attacks is what all Americans should fear, his supporters and their threats of race wars, and riots to make us fall in line . His silliness to put up his ghetto seal. His attitude of I am not going to apologize to the bi#$@hes let Hillary take her ass out there and do it for me. We need to go to more of McCain events invite him to speak with us see where theres common ground
Amen…..
And if there are enough of us swing bloc voters, the religious right isn’t going to be the only game in town.
I think a lot of moderate Republican women are sick and tired of the less socially progressive aspects of their own party. They are fiscal conservatives and strong on defense voters. They are not all in the bag on the socially repressive group.
Even this year so far, it’s a relief to see McCain dump some of the more ridiculous right-wingers.
We could have a strong and positive influence in this regard that would benefit the country, not just one party or another.
One thing I liked about this article, frankly, is that she captured my own feelings about being an older white woman. At first, when the race was young, I could see that the traditional, registered Democrats favored Hillary, but the insider boyz and the DNC were thrilled with all the young new voters coming in.
I kept saying, “Yes, but there’s a real problem here, because the traditional base are the people who actually WORK the party. We work it even in years when nobody votes!” I was surprised that nobody cared. Heck, I couldn’t even get a discussion going on it.
Nobody cared. Finally, I realized after the disrespect piled on higher and higher that….
Nobody cared. LOL*
I’m a bit dense sometimes. Takes me awhile.
Right then, it ticked me off royally. Oh, all these suits relying on women to work their campaigns for them year after year. And you couldn’t care less, huh, that we’re mad about the trickery?
Okie Dokie.
You can just do it alone, then, I thought.
So I’m glad she articulated that, granted, emotional attitude of some of us. You all may not feel it. That’s OK. I’m an older white woman, though, and I DID feel it.
That’s also why I love the idea of a march on Denver. Hire Heels is trying to get something really cooking. I don’t want blood in the streets, but I sure as heck would like them to be surprised.
And that’s the way to do it, I think. Usually, I’m content with letting my vote speak. This year, a bit more drama is called for.
Just my 2 cents.
yeah but what you didn’t see… was how they brought the young voters in..did you see the busses and the brand new Ipods?????
I did…it was all planned and i call it a coup..of the manchurian candidate..
this was all planned long ago ..because when Fla got the DRE voting machines banned and the repubs tagged on the primary date change..Dean and Brazile were up and running immediately trying to push caucus on Florida..the plans were made long ago for this coup!
fly
I grew up in the South. That’s a time-honored method of winning down there. LOL*
by the way……did they really hand out i-pods?
wow!
Some of the bussed in to Iowa were high school kids, not eligible to vote. They were brought for the purpose of disrupting the caucuses.
Well, I guess if Hillary were really prepared for the caucuses she would have bused in Hell’s Angels to protect the elderly.
I get that ann, but they are grouping ALL of us as older white women and we arent, and then they are taking it a step farther by attributing the supposed motivations of older white women onto us in our decisions to not vote mccain, so if their supposition that we are all old white women is wrong, and ti is, the entire piece is flawed, as it is….
and lumping us all as one block one ‘type’ pone size fits all one motivation is frankly insulting and sexist and dismissive of the incredibly diversity Hillary brought together under her banner!!
All Barack Obama’s statements come with an expiration date.
lol*……true “Until I decide differently.”
I AM A NEW REPUBLICAN BECAUSE OF HOW THE DUMMYCRAT LEADERS BACKED A MAN FOR PRESIDENT THAT HAS SURROUNDED HIMSELF WITH RACISTS, CROOKS, GANGSTERS, TERROISTS, LIARS. THAT IS MY PERCPTION AND I DO NOT WANT A PRESIDENT LIKE THAT. I WANT A PRESIDENT WORTHY OF THAT TITLE SO I WILL VOTE FOR MCCAIN. IF YOU ARE A PERSON THAT IS UNDECIDED AND WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY BO IS NOT FOR OUR COUNTRY READ AT MY WEBSITE. I AM ON A MISSION TO EDUCATE AND REPORT WHAT THE MEDIA WON’T! THERE IS AN UPDATE FROM LARRY SINCLAIR HIMSELF.www.hillaryloyalistnowformccain.com
You have done a very good job with your site. Are you linked with the JustSayNoDeal website?
“Who are these women, and why are they being such buzzkills?”
Buzzkill was an unfortunate word to smear these ladies with, perhaps she meant “dryhump”.
this is stupid but made me laugh.. someone making up signs for september
pussy cat, pussy cat, where have you been,
I have been to Denver to screw the Dean…
hey we can play Whats New Pussycat while we enter the voting booth for McCain
I will sing it all the way in for sure now, LOL!!
Whats new pussycat
whoa oh oh oh
pussycat pussycat I love you
yeeesss I DOOO
YOU AND YOUR PUSSYCAT SMILE
BWAAHAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
1.I was for Edwards not Hillary
2. I only supported Hillary after John Edwards dropped out ( or was shoved out..or was that the Axelrod plan all along..i just don’t know anymore)
3. i will never support Obama since i saw he and his team cheat ..in may ways..
3A.)…stealing my vote in Florida
3B.)..being a caucus co-captain for Edwards and watching the cheaters cheat in a large Iowa caucus.
3C.) ..being called horrible names by Obama’s supporters..and yes even the “c” word..for no reason other than not supporting that candidate.
3D.)..watching the coup take place at the Rules committee ..the most disgusting , flagrant abuse of our democratic principles and system.
( i could continue on but don’t want to bore you!!)
4.Nothing will let me vote for this guy..(nothing..it will not happen)… who has no experience whatsoever in National Security, and having been a flight crew for one of the airlines involved on 9/11 for 33 years.. and based in NY on 9/11 ..it would be irresponsible for me to do so.
Do not insult my intelligence saying I will come home, and vote for this incompetent boob….I am an American before I am anything..and it was my lifelong responsibility to save lives. end of story.
5. I have been blessed to fly the world..and stand in such places as the birth place of the Magna Carta, and concentration camps where so many human beings had their lives stolen. I have been many times to Normandy..and stood over the graves of gallant young men who died in their precious youth for this incredible “IDEA” OF DEMOCRACY. I have stood in German gun stations and looked into a beautiful sunset over the ocean and looked at where my father in law climbed the cliffs for people’s freedoms.
I watched as my son raised a Flag in Pearl Harbor on the U.S.S. Arizona memorial for his great grandfather..who left his eye as a 16 year old on that ship in WWI..
So much sacrifice for this republic democracy.
And for this Man Obama, who has the sacrifice of young people today in his charge, to never have held one hearing or meeting on Afganistan..is just deplorable to me.
I will not now or ever vote for this man and his surrogates who stole my vote to gain his nomination..never..ever ever!!
People have died for my vote..i respect that and honor that.
I will never ever vote for this man who would so easily give away my rights in FISA and give immunity to those who would spit on the “Rule of Law”
the vwry principle this nation was built upon.
Obama has a responsibility as does each and every person in congress..to defend and protect the constitution..allowing immunity for laws broken after the fact is not defending my constitution..it is not.
Therefore Obama and those who sign off on this, are committing crimes in my book..and they are covering their asses and those asses of those who have broken our laws.
Obama has committed a coup with those surrogates who helped him in stealing my vote and the nomination of this presidential race.
I don’t care if he gets elected or not , he will be like bush to me..illegitimate. AND I WILL SPEND MY EVERY WAKING MOMENT AND $$$ TO SEE THOSE WHO AIDED AND ABETTED THIS PROCESS AND COUP REMOVED FROM ANY POSITION OF POWER.
Today it is my rights, tommorrow yours…what right are you willing to give up???????
think hard about that Rebecca Traister..
fly
In fact, arent all these articles focusing on the women who wont back Uhhbama equally sexist?? they are totally disregarding the MILLIONS OF MEN who voted ror Hillary and are not on the Uhhbama love train today…
they are wrapping up their sexist coverage with a sexist slant to the end. the white wimmuns wont come along..
how about the men, the latinos, the working class, blue collar men who voted for a woman for CIC, how amazing Hillary broke thru any barriers to those guys seeing her as CIC,
instead these hacks are still all about the women, particularly the white women, Kristoff said we were a problem, they all pooh poohed it and are doing the same damn thing every frakkin day!!
these media hacks, particularly the women, are still on that storyline, they are as sexist in this coverage as the sexism they decry in the piece itself, ironic no??
Stop Nickel and Diming Obama: He Should say Whatever It Takes To Win (Lie To All The Suckers Out There If Thats What It Takes)
I am so not upset by Obama’s endorsement of the FISA “compromise.” Nor was I upset by what he said to AIPAC, to Miami Cubans or whatever.
I want him to win not to go down in a blaze of glory like my all-time favorite Democratic nominee, George McGovern.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/21/stop_nickel_and_diming_obama_h/
Hes Sold His soul
yup……it’s starting to get almost funny watching it from the sidelines.
The pretzel-brains are having a hard time keeping up with the “new” Obama.
Wow – can we say “oversimplification” of women?
you mean women don’t care about national security, or competence in the White House, or corruption or integrity in the WH or about voter rights and a system that transparently supports Democracy?
Yes, it’s all about how women are slighted because they’re women.
Traister is an idiot.
If we are all dried up old bags, why would we give a s*** about abortion?
Comment by Hope Floats | 2008-06-24 10:58:58
Neither candidate campaigned in FL or MI. There is still a primary, though, and names were on the ballots. Signing a pledge to not campaign is not the same as scrapping an election.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I beg to differ. Obama admitted campaigning in both Fl and MI.
Obama said opps to a part of his Fl campaigning, but nothing about the cable ads.
During the DNC hearing Obama’s rep told the committe the uncommitted votes belonged to Obama because of Obama’s huge educational campaign. Yep Obama’s rep said that Obama had an educational campaign for the voters to vote uncommitted if they were fore him.(yep I was shocked too).
So they then got 4 more MI delegates because of their admission of guilt.
Hillary was the only one that remained true to the no Campaigning pact in MI and FL.
To get a reaction the writer choose to be a flamer.
I believe this person is very confused and intellectually lazy. It is written in the first person so with no source but what flows between the ears. Not a thing from anyone else.
Your right it is not directly about HRC anymore.
Thanks.
Everyone has a choice. Citzens for McCain, It’s a protest voet. Staying home or voting for another candidate is voting for Obama. Stop this evil man ins sheeps clothing.
He talks alot of sheet. We what what we have to do. We look forward and not back, Regardless of beig a Dem for decades…it’s a new playing field. I haven’t changed my party. No NO NO. I’m voting McCain. It’s a ’stop obama vote’..it’s sad but necessary.
People have created an Obama group on http://www.datebound.com to decide the strategy to make him US president.
Let’s go counter attack on that group at http://www.datebound.com and show our support to John McCain
A miracel mat happen and Hillary can lead as Prez but we need to get going now. Stop letting them define us.
Salon magazine listen the fuck up. This article by you only shows our strength. We anti-Obama, pro-Hillary Democrats have already shown our resolve by choking off money for the DNC. DNC is barely breathing because of us. Write about that, why don’t ya!
As for OUR MOVEMENT. It is in Mahatma Gandhi’s “ridicule” stage: “First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.”
Only two more stages to go.
I believe this is the first time we’ve had a hologram running for president.
lol*……I’m privately absolutely appalled at the religious iconography of this campaign. It makes me RUN from this party right now.
Omigod! Along with civil rights, I grew up in the South where religion was used as a freaking club politically.
And here were are….35 years later…..with the Darling of the Left doing exactly the same.
*sigh*
Good Golly, Miss Molly!
Why am I not going to vote for Obama? Simple; he doesn’t speak to me. He opens his mouth but nothing comes out. He doesn’t get it, never will.
Am I ticked that this was more about Clinton hate than picking a nominee? Am I ticked that any attempt to discuss issues, qualifications or inequities in the process was only met with insults and inanities? Am I ticked that our party turned out to represent everything I detest about politics? Damn straight.
That doesn’t alter the fact that I simply do not take Obama seriously. Call it women’s intuition, but I know a waste of space when I see it.
Put that on your list Ms. Traister.
I tried to post the you tube showing Obama campaigning in FL. It disappeared.
Breaks His Pledge — Campaigns in Florida
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM5H649fwP4
People, unless we stop supporting this careless, reckless, rotten to the core government we are all going to be up shit creek without a paddle with our hands tied behind our backs and the government pushing us under. It will be even worse for our children who will forced to live a life of violence and poverty when all the jobs are gone. If you don’t want this to happen then join the battle. We need to band together and stop supporting this corrupt beyond belief government….
We need to protest in the streets..
We need a revolution before it’s too late…..
I personally see clear indications in Barack Obama that he has a personality disorder. I’m not going to vote for George W. Bush masquerading as Barack Obama. He’s a “uniter not a divider.” Remember that one? Now we’re hearing that lie again, and the signs of Obama’s divisiveness are just as clear as the signs to me in 2000 of Bush’s divisiveness. There are clear signs of extreme arrogance, grandiosity, inexperience in foreign policy, and disingenuous deceit from Obama–all hallmarks of G.W.
I didn’t vote for George W. Bush either time he ran: Not in 2000; not in 2004. I’ll be damned if I’m going to vote for George W. Bush in 2008, posing as Barack Obama.
I’m not voting for Barack Obama. I doubt I’ll be voting for John McCain either. So, I am likely to not vote this election at all. I thought I might vote for downticket Democrats; but I’ve changed my mind on that, too. I want to send a message to the Democratic Party that I reject their tactics, their candidate and their Bushian attitudes.
If you vote for McCain, at least you’ve got a pretty good idea what you’ll be getting.
You’ve already seen it during the past 7 years.
Has John McCain ever clearly stated what his position is on George W. Bush’s unitary executive theory of government?
Did anybody bother to read Bush’s National Security Preparedness Directive (NSPD-51) of May 9, 2007? Or any of his other Executive Orders regarding national emergencies and national security?
You’re all so convinced that Obama’s the threat…
John McCain is not George W Bush, no matter how many times you Obamites say he is. Barack Obama is not qualified to be president of most powerful nation in the world, no matter how many times you say he is.
As long as you’re reading though, how about doing a little research on your own candidate. Then come back and give us a good reason, on his merits alone, that he deserves our vote. We’re old and bitter and do not respond well to scare tactics.
People keep saying McCain isn’t Bush. True. There’s no question in my mind that McCain has more integrity. But show me were McCain’s policies and political philosophy differ significantly from those of George W. Bush. You can’t. It’s the same content–just in different packaging. The fact that the McCain package is being pushed by more corporate lobbyists than you can shake a stick at ought to tell us something. McCain has more experience, we’re told. Yep. He’s certainly got more experience working with those guys.
Here’s a chart showing all the lobbyists working directly for the McCain campaign. Just roll your mouse pointer over each name to see who they’re connected to. Remember the Airbus defense contract? I’ll give you 10 points for every lobbyist with an Airbus connection you turn up!
http://mediamattersaction.org/freeride/lobbyists/
Obama is just another package being promoted, of course. He’s had less experience than McCain, but his policies and political philosophies are clearly stated on the side of the box. They’re as close to Hillary Clinton’s as McCain’s are to those of George W. Bush. Obama’s lack of experience in some areas are seen by some people as a definite plus.
If we want the next 4 years to be better, we have to do something different. Do the same thing as before and you generally get some variation of the same results.
We’ve got a 911 truther here!
The only truth I know about 9/11 is that a small group of fanatics with no Iraqi connections pulled off a terrorist attack at a total estimated cost of $450,000.
And that a republican president responded by invading Iraq, initiating a war that has has now cost the United States $531 billion, thus allowing the terrorists to inflict over one million dollars in economic damages on the U.S. for every single dollar they spent.
More American dead and disabled have resulted from Bush’s ill-considered response than from the initial attack itself. Not to mention 92,883 confirmed Iraqi civilian dead.
That should be enough 9/11 truth for anyone.
I think the issue may be ……is the surge working?
I think Bush was horrible. However, I do know what I have disagreed with lefties about is that he did have public support. I watched as long-time Democrats who opposed him got unseated. I do not forget.
I won’t go along with moment-to-moment public reactions. Then they beat up on Hllary, called her Bush-Lite, etc. I remember.
I think the surge may actually be working, which is what we want. I want an exit that leaves the Middle East intact.
That’s all.
I do not wish to relive Viet Nam.
So McCain has my ear on the surge. I’ll listen. If it appears that it’s BS………Ok, call the deal.
I think it may be less black and white, though. Even for Obama.
I think that he’ll end up and adopt, as with most positions, Hillary’s stance on the Middle East.
He’s a suit. Nothing radical at all. Just another guy who wants to be in the History books.
But on this issue?
McCain is more on than Obama.
if it makes her feel better that we are no threat, all the better when Barky goes up in flames. the Barky-tards will be postulating about “what went wrong” till 2012. let them eat crap.
Girl, thank you so much for saying it loud for me, and I’ll make sure I’ll say it loud to others. Excellent article!
Obama Will Be Unable To Win Without The Disgruntled Democrats
http://www.obama-wire.com
yup, go to the obama-wire site and check who is sponsoring the democratic convention. that’s right the telecoms who just got the freebie on fisa by the democrats. now isn’t that just special. will the paid for dumbed down media report this? no!
get OUT!!!!! R U SERIOUS!!!
THE HYPOCRITICAL FRAKKERS!!
Spread the word on that shxt all over the progressive blogs
WTF
unbeLIEVable
I am a senior white male from Pennsylvania who will NEVER vote for Obama. It has nothing to do with race, although I am getting sick of Obama using the race card. I voted for Hillary in the primary but was totally disgusted with the tactics of the Democratic party later on. After the Michigan and Florida little trick, I changed my part to Independent. If possible, I will write in Hillary’s name in the November election.
Jerry…we’re on the same page.
Thank goodness for this post. The Traister piece is not only poorly reasoned, it parades speculation as fact. At least one main organizer of Just Say No Deal is a man. Furthermore, in my own grassroots effort to retire Senator Clinton’s debt, many contributions come from people with male names as well as many from those with female names. Since contributions over 200 dollars are publicly available for viewing Traister could certainly have figured this out!
Thank you for responding to this insane article. I read it and was like ‘WTF?! Did this reporter even attempt to talk with anyone who identifies as being a PUMA? I thought she missed the mark completely. As much as I support my gal, HRC, she is not the reason why I am refusing to support Obama. Everything he says is a lie and he is simply a marketing creation with no experience, backbone or integrity to work for the betterment of this country. He has no character, he simply is one and he is playing a role. The man is the complete opposite of the message.
You can now subscribe to http://www.obama-wire.com’s RSS feed
http://obama-wire.com/rss.html
Know Obama
No Obama
I am not voting ‘for’ Senator McCain; I am voting ‘against’ Senator Obama. And Senator McCain happens to have the best chance to beat him in the general election.
thank you, Charles, for a very clear response to rebecca traister’s silly attempt to understand something that is sooooo far over her head. salon, huffpo, taylor marsh and bartcop have utterly failed to understand what’s really happening and in the process have revealed their own biases. too bad.
Exactly. These angry people have nowhere else to go. So the safe expectation is that they will fall in line without much kicking and screaming. And that, ultimately, is why many of them are kicking and screaming. Yes, they’re going to vote for Obama. Of course they’ll vote for him. The truth is, they’ll probably love voting for him. But after what they feel has been done to them — the way in which they were written off, marginalized and resented, their hopes mocked and their history-making ambitions dismissed as retrograde identity politicking — damned if they’re going to be nice girls about it.”
That paragraph makes me wretch. We have “nowhere else to go?” Just try us. “The truth is, they’ll probably love voting for him.”
Clearly, she has never read any of our posts or talked to anyone. Not only will I never vote for him, the idea of feeling anything less than disgust for him is unimaginable to me.
A lot of the Obama supporters like to trot out that arrogant “you’re going to love him” line.
Charles that was excellent. I don’t think however I could ever vote either Edward or Biden. Biden’s son, the Attorney General of Delaware was the one who issued a warrant for Larry Sinclair. Larry Sinclair claims it was without merit and a fraud. He cannot afford an attorney so he will by himself at court. Of course it will be thrown out but the effect remains. Someone talks something about Obama and bang they get discredited and what better way than arrested in front of the reporters who just heard his story. There are too many at the top who are enabling Obama and his campaign and that’s the scariest thing about this election.
As bad as Rebecca’s article was, her cohort Shapiro’s was even worse! Hers was based on a lot of wrong assumptions, while his was pure arrogance and condescension. I swear, I had to look at the author’s name twice to be sure it wasn’t written by Keith Olberman!!!