Antiprogressive Democrats in Denial about the Fat Pig with Clay Feet
By Un coup de des on June 25, 2008 at 12:32 PM in Bamboozling, Barack Obama, Democratic Party, Democrats, Hoodwinking, Joe Biden, John Kerry
The cartoon Kevin Siers of the Charlotte Observer sketched today illustrates what readers of No Quarter already know: ostensible progressives and venal Democrats are acutely aware of the compromised status of their candidate. But they will never admit it. Instead, they will turn their backs and behave as if Barack Obama’s desire to privatize public institutions is entirely acceptable. ”Yes, I know, but nevertheless:” this is the statement Democrats are now forced to utter.
I quote Senator Joe Biden (D-DE):
“In terms of undermining the public financing idea for everyone” the decision “doesn’t help,” Biden, a Delaware Democrat, said today on NBC’s “Meet the Press” program. “It’s going to be harder to make the case” for public financing, he said.Still, Biden said Obama has kept his commitment of “reducing the influence of big money in his campaign, unlike other campaigns.” Almost 80 percent of Obama’s contributions are $100 or less, “so he’s keeping with the purpose of public financing,” Biden said.
I quote the Obamabot Joseph Palermo’s vain attempt to justify Obama’s decision not to accept public financing:
Let’s set the record straight. First, Obama did not “vow” to take public financing no matter what ensued in the campaign. There were all sorts of conditions and unpredictable variables that he said would affect his decision about public financing when (and if) the time came. He wisely gave himself wiggle room on the issue. That’s what politicians do. He didn’t paint himself into a corner because at the time he didn’t know if he’d be able to unseat Hillary Clinton or who his likely Republican opponent would be.Second, absent from the discussion about Obama’s “betrayal” of his principles because he’s not foolish enough to tie his hands in the general election is the fact that he has broken all records in American politics for the amount of money raised BY SMALL DONATIONS. The vast majority of his campaign cash, about 93 percent, has come from donations of $200 or less. George W. Bush could never do this; and John McCain could never do it either. So we should punish the one candidate whose campaign is the least beholden to giant corporations and wealthy individuals? Obama has accomplished exactly what he said he did in his recent statement on the issue: a new form of public financing.
I quote Senator John Kerry (D-MA), who stumbles over himself to rationalize Obama’s poor decision:
On a conference call with reporters moments ago, Kerry insisted that the decision was necessary if Obama is to avoid succumbing under a barrage of such spending, as he did.“You know, the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth hadn’t appeared in July of my year as a funded group,” Kerry said. “And they were funded in August, which was the time I was tied to campaign finance reform and didn’t have the money to respond. And it had an obvious, profound impact. So I think in order to control your campaign and your message, it is essential to be able to respond to those and be free to respond to them.”
”I know, but nevertheless:” antiprogressive Democrats and their stenographers are in complete and utter denial. At least Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI) is unwilling to turn his back on the giant pig with clay feet that has inserted itself into the Democratic tent. I quote:
“This is not a good decision,” Feingold said in a statement today. “While the current public financing system for the presidential primaries is broken, the system for the general election is not. The entire system must be updated.”
Real Democrats such as Russ Feingold understand what we and columnist Liz Sidoti understand: Obama “chose winning over his word.” But even worse, Obama also lied. I quote Sidoti:
Obama blamed his decision in part on McCain and “the smears and attacks from his allies running so-called 527 groups.” But he failed to mention that the only outside groups running ads in earnest so far are those aligned with Obama — and running commercials against McCain.
Because Democrats seem to support a candidate who seemingly desires to privatize public institutions, I can only assume that the Democratic Party is no longer a party of reform. Disavowing the compromised status of the candidate they selected to serve as their Party’s nominee, they are unable and unwilling to acknowledge the giant pig with clay feet that will hog all the space at their little convention in Denver. Principles, I guess, will be jettisoned in the name of electing a corrupt candidate with clay feet who learned politics in the pig pens of inner city Chicago.
(Release: November 13)
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Democrat’s in denial about WHO Obama really is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSemkPChvHo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT05ANzLIAo
I believe that an excellent campaign ad would open with Nancy Pelosi’s revealing inability to answer Greta Van Susteran when asked about Obama’s accomplishments and Pelosi could not come up with anything!
I agree, Pelosi had nothing of value to say in that interview. It is painfully obvious that Obama cannot be justified. Everything about him uderscores his lack of character and morality and for her to push the same talking points about judgment and fresh politics is not only stupid but works to elevate voters’ frustrations to yet a new level.
Judgment?!! That is absolutely laughable. This guy is the poster boy for bad judgment. I hope the 527’s are crafting an excellent rebuttal to the phony judgment argument. That can’t be too hard to put together!
How long can this denial go on…???
Has to implode soon…
It would be nice if it would, but may not be till the fall…
http://nocache.homestead.com/nativeamericansagainstobama/index.html
Progressives are individuals who are ostensibly working within the republic and its capitalist system, while their real goal is to subvert it, weakening its foundation, the Constitution of the United States of America, and amending it to reflect the Marxist-Socialist philosophy described as Progressivism.
Progressives contend that Progressivism is rooted in three core principles: “Fighting for economic justice and security for all; Protecting and preserving civil rights and civil liberties; and Promoting global peace and security.” That’s what they say — it sounds great — but it’s not what they intend.
http://www.freedomsenemies.com/_more/progressivecaucus.htm
Spot on.
When I first supported groups like WorkingForChange(later Credo) I thought they were FDR type Democrats, little did i know that these people were nothing of the sort.
I learned thanks to NQ and Rezkowatch that they are leftist radicals just like Tom Hayden and Alinsky.
To them the Democratic party was nothing but a vehicle to achieve power and there is nothing progressive about them.
Yes, but many of those small donations are bundled through big donors and lobbying groups. Let’s say a big donor gets a group of his or her friends to donate $200.00 each. It’s then bundled into one large donation. But the Obama campaign will present this money as coming from a group of individuals rather than from the backing of the big donor that had these people give the money. Some in the media have reported on this but they are few and far between.
Neat trick.
Exactly. Frank Clark of ComEd, also on the board of Exelon BUNDLED $200,000 for Obama. He’s not the only one. There are many of these bundlers. JP morgan, Goldman Sachs, Exelon, etc etc. There are the back door lobbyists who bundled so as not to directly donate. It’s all a hhoax. Not to mention the individuals, such as Rashid Kalhidi and his Pakistani buddies, such as the guy who held that fundraiser in San Fran where Obama discussed people who cling to their religion out of frustration. Funny, that:
“Die Religion … ist das Opium des Volkes.”
–Karl Marx
Religion. It is the opium of the people.”
What I want to know is who are Obama’s overseas backers. To me, every foreigner giving any amount of money to a presidential candidate should have to identify themselves to the American people.
This HAS to be exposed: this lie about his small donations. I have always found that to be the biggest hoax, and very few people know the truth about it. I do not have time right now to find the link, but USA Today and Congressional Quarterly both did reports on Obama’s money. I seem to remember that over 60% of his money comes from Wall St. (sub-prime mortgage industry) and corporate related sources. It is such crap. Meanwhile, he arrogantly denounces Hillary and McCain for their lobbyist ties. I want to see this guy revealed!!!!
Messiahs with clay feet do not on water walk.
No Obama. Not now. Not ever.
Instead of principles and ‘truth to power’ we now have lies and ‘flip flops to power’-that’s the Obama’s Party way..
WAKE UP OBAMABOTS!
Give the yuppie a break.
How else can Soros going to pump money into the campaign?
That’s not to say Hillary, McCain, or any of the other candidates didn’t do the same. The difference is they didn’t claim they weren’t doing it.
Exactly. And they didn’t make TV commercials saying they didn’t take lobbyist and oil money either. You have got to be one arrogant lying sack of crap to do that.
Yeah, talk about chutzpah (sp?).
AND HE GETS AWAY WITH IT!!! Who is going to blow the lid off this constant hypocrisy? It’s a sad day when this lifelong liberal is actually looking forward to the Republican 527’s. It’s come to that, since the “legitimate press” no longer exists.
Apparently he is losing fans among his core voters too.
Check out this article from The Black Agenda Report’s website.
Obama’s campaign finance comments are pretty damn disingenuous: not exactly the “straight shooter” talk he claims to represent.
But it’s hardly the first Obama deception to date - not by a long shot. Here (below) are some of the bigger examples of stark dishonesty I’ve discovered in the process of writing a book on the Obama phenomenon and U.S. political culture.
Here is the link to the whole article:
http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=676&Itemid=1
The blackagendareport has been on his tail for quite awhile now. They perceive him to be just what he is. A man who is using black America while pandering to white America.
I’m surprised he hasn’t sent his NOI friends to “reason” with them.
Every time Obama’s rethoric about
change, meets his actual record of
change, it evaporates into a cloud of hypocrisy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdxrrgGUfAg
The figures quoted by the politicians above are simply wrong. Only 40 percent of Obama’s money came from small donors. Sixty percent came from special interest groups (law firms, lobbyists, wall street).
They’re intentionally distorting the truth to make it appear that Obama has some great grassroots support.
However it was Clinton who won the popular vote, not Obama.
Per my previous post I really felt insulted by the Nancy Pelosi interview on Foxnews with Greta last night. I felt Nancy was talking down to we the people. Nancy was so arrogant it was nauseating. In my opinion Nancy basically said to we the people that we should not question her decisions and she doesn’t have to be accountable and how dare we ask her to justify anything. Nancy didn’t use the interview to tell us about “the change” she used it as an opportunity to talk down the GOP along with we the people.
I’ve raised my children and I don’t have time for the President to grow up in the White House. I am not mad Hillary lost the nomination but I am very concerned about my country.
First: if the Democrats think it’s just the women that are not considering voting for Obama they forgot to ask my husband (and this family prays and votes together).
Second: if they’re just counting the Democratic primary votes I think they are forgetting that a lot of Republican families came out in support of Hillary.
Third: If the Democrats think that we women are just mad and we’ll get over it then they should remember the old saying “Hell hath no fury like a women scorned!” That my friends is the truth, just ask my husband.
In my opinion the Democratic party does not speak or care about we the women voters. Women voters have rights and freedom of speech. When I cast my vote for McCain in November it will not be due to Premenstrual syndrome (PMS). My vote for McCain will reflect the love that I have for my country, my children, my family and friends to keep us all safe and prosperous.
McCain brings “Action” which means more to me than Hope, Change and just yes we can words. Everyone knows that “Action” speaks louder than “just words.”
Pelosi is now taking time off her busy schedule rigging the Democratic nomination to make “helpful suggestions” as to who Obama should pick for VP- “at least one House Member,” she says, and suggests Chet Edwards of Texas by name.
Good thing Pelosi took Impeachment off the table and doesn’t take her job as Speaker very seriously, it would really interfere with her extracurricular activities, wouldnt it?
Who is Chet Edwards?
That was another asinine thing Nancy did repeatedly during the primary season. Whenever she was asked about the dream ticket, she was extremely negative about it. Not that I want Hillary anywhere near that lying inexperienced hypocrite, but it was extremely irresponsible for the Speaker of the House to be injecting her opinion into the public domain about that. Obviously, she has her own agenda (ie: Nancy Pelosi).
It also goes to prove that we “emotionally hysterical women” are not just supporting women because they are women. You can take Pelosi, Claire McCaskill, et. al. and ban them from public office for life for all I care.
Very well said Denise.
Black Agenda Report has NEVER been a core supporter of Barack Obama. The editor thinks he’s a sell out-pandering to so called liberal whites who mistakenly think he’s a progressive and don’t want to be considered racists. The editor, Glen Ford, recently came out in support of Cyntha Mckinney, who will likely be the Green Party Candidate and BAR has been doing critical commentary on Barack for months and months.
Add today’s statement from Ralph Nader who said that Obama “is talking white” to appeal to liberal Dems. Go Ralph! Watch the “race” card go wild.
Always knew that Nader was a good citizen and a hero to consumers and the public at large but thought he overreached when he ran for the White House. How things have changed! Next to Obama he looks like Einstein…clearly more competent and knowledgeable than BO…but then who isn’t?
Yep, after an initial comment from the Obama campaign which sounded as though they were just going to brush off Nader, the second round is screaming Racist! Racist! Racist! Reprehensible!
Nader said the only thing different about Obama is that he’s half black and appeals to liberals with white guilt.
Ralph…telling it like it is.
Is that going to be their answer every time Obama’s record or actions are challenged? It is really getting old.
Nader is correct (never thought I’d say that). If you watch the videos where Obama is addressing a predominately black audience his cadence, tone, and method of speaking change completely.
Hillary was trashed for so-called “adopting” a southern accent while speaking in the south.
Forget all those years she lived in Arkansas. She must be a phony.
Qaddafi (Gaddafi, etc): Obama is a Muslim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSemkPChvHo
This was put on youtube yesterday. Qaddafi does a whole speech on Obama, and he says that he is a muslim and should be proud. Obama is of Islam. He should not have a black inferiority complex, because then he’ll act whiter than whites…and he also says that American people, black people want change…and that other countries (he lists them) want Obama, and have contributed to his campaign! $$$$$
A translator would help, but the words I can decipher do match.
Also, I double checked this on memri-TV and it is there under Obama in search box. The crowd looks to be stock footage to me, but I think that is part of Qaddafi’s regular propaganda, and I’ve seen other leaders do it, but who knows.
I think it is just something AlJazeera TV made up…here are pictures of Muammar Al-Qadhafi from goggle.
http://tinyurl.com/5zx4an
Nope, it really is Qadhafi. I’m a lot older than you and I remember what Qadhafi looked like and the words you can understand in the video match the subtitles. Yes, he calls him brother Obama.
and the biggest flip flop…
Obama said on Tuesday he had not yet spoken to the former president, but wants him to be part of his campaign. “He’s as smart as they come. He’s a great strategist,” Obama said.
I thought that comment was over the top, considering BO is directly responsible for all the smears. Disgusting.
Someone ought to cut his fuckin tonque out!
I wish not to harm anyone…And him missing his tongue would not help with the “aahhh ummmm”.
Closing his mouth will do.
Aye you are right…. sorry…
Hey maybe we could just put a “seal” over his mouth….
Duct tape works nicely for many things.
I thought Bill Clinton was a racist? Why would BO want him involved in his campaign?
Obamabots, can you help me out here??? Why does BO want to involve that horrible, racist cracker in his campaign?? Any answers??
Bet you don’t get an answer. The O-bots are having a bad week anyway. Take it easy on the youngsters or they might quit coming around.
Hillary or McCain 08!!!!!!
I wish Bill Clinton would tell Obama that he has more important things to do and just doesn’t have the time to bail Obama’s butt out.
*************************
NEWS UPDATE
*************************
**OBAMA TO RECEIVE SACRED IDOL**
I am not making this up. Obama is receiving an idol bc it has been reported he is an ardent follower of Lord Hanuman.
For More Info Go To: http://www.obama-wire.com
Dude! you really need to chill with the damn advertising! Okay, we get it! You have a blog. You want us to check it out! Enough! It’s gotten irritating!
I don’t know about anyone else here but, enough is enough!
It makes me think of those children that do something to get your attention. You ackowledge them the first time, then they continue to do it until it becomes irritating. We get it! I’ve checked out your blog! Move on!
Agree with you RedDragon62. We get it, stop with the advertising already.
You want denial? Tune into Ed Schultz’s “Obama is going to win in a blowout I dont’ know why McCain is even bothering to run” Fantasy Show every afternoon on the Jones Radio Network. Today, this buffoon has Jonathan Alter on to tell us that Hillary “must” support Obama “wholeheartedly” if she wants Obama’s support in retiring her debt- “if he retires her debt, I dont see how she can’t be enthusiastic about him…” (in other words, politicians are there to be bought.)
Alter goes on to tell us that “because Obama has such a huge fundraising network, he’ll be uniquely independent from special interests when President…” which made me choke on my soda.
Then, the best part of all: a caller phones in to say that “Obama will win a HUGE MINORITY, if not a MAJORITY, of the Evangelical vote! He’s on Fire here!” Now THAT’S delusional.
I can’t wait till the debacle in November. All that’s left to ponder is, “how will it be blamed on Hillary?”
I’ve just been waiting and waiting for some Obama “supporter” to blame Tim Russert’s death on Hillary. LMAO
I don’t see why she needs him to help retire her debt after all she was able to raise over 30 million in one month while campaigning. Hillary could retire her debt simply by distancing herself from Obama and asking her supporters to help her. I think most of us would gladly help her if she told him to F-off.
I’d give her my last dime if she did!!!
Yep, I’m SURE BO is going to win the evangelicals BIG! Why we all know that evangelicals would oppose legislation like the “Born Alive Act” that guaranteed medical aid in the rare instance that a viable fetus is born alive following a botched abortion. Yep, that’ll bring them to the polls in droves…to vote for John McCain.
Is Alter on drugs? Obama not beholden to special interests–what a laugh! Alter’s one of those idiots who kept telling Hillary to quit, even as she was stomping the crap out of Obama in the real elections. His credibility is right up there with Dick Morris.
I briefly turned on Air America, wondering what they were saying about Obama’s flip flops. Spin, spin, spin. It was disgusting. They sound ridiculous. This situation would be laughable, if our country’s welfare wasn’t at stake.
Look, I admire your tenacious support of Hilary, but when she is appearing in Unity with Obama, is going to campaign for Obama, and even Bill is going to help, isnt it time to recognize that the train has left the station???
Unless you want a ill tempered, fighter jock mentality old fud who will probably bomb Iran as his first decision as president, I suggest if you cant support Obama, at least lay off??.
Obama has to be recognized for putting together a web and grassroots organization that beat the bejesus out of the fat, corn fed campaign organization that Hilary created. Yes, I know running a good campaign does not mean you will be a good Chief Executive (see our currnet pres, but then, I think Bush didnt run his campaign,he was a puppet of Rove and Cheney)
Please bear in mind that I was an Edwards supporter. Edwards has the best policies.. and he has endorsed Obama and will probably have a big role in an Obama administration. (HHS?) No Obama, and HHS will probably be run by some repub imbecile as bad or worse than the bushies.
Stop living in a dream.. the choice is McCain and more of the same Republican graft and corruption (remember Blackwater, Haliburton, KBR? the attorneys firing, Duke cunningham, and others? Do you really think McCain is going to investigate his own party, after he totally rolled over for Bush after 2000.) or Obama.
I know how hard it is when an ideal you worked for and supported dosent pan out, but please dont make the perfect the enemy of the good.
I think Obama will be a good president, much better than McCain.
You want more of the same Bush crap, keep it up.
I know I’ll probably get flamed for posting this, but, it’s time to face the facts.
I love how you want to convince us to accept Obama yet you cannot restrain yourself from throwing an unnecessary handful of mud at our candidate- “fat, corn-fed organization that Hillary created…”
And this is why you, and all the other Obama supporters who come here and tell us to get on board, fail. You simply cannot hold back your bile even when intellectually you know you need to win us over. It just isn’t in you.
I’m voting for McCain. I don’t feel any need to explain why to you. Now, you may feel free to call me irrational and a sore loser and anything else. I couldn’t care less. It’s my vote. It will never be cast for Obama. Eat it.
Hillary needs help to pay off her campaign debt- one doesn’t look a gift horse in the mouth. I say kudos to Hillary for ‘playing the game’. I think she knows what her supporters who will not support Obama knows..and not voting for Obama will not be the end of America: might be the end of the Democratic party and democracy but..
Can’t wait to get that “I Voted” sticker…
Well said John.
Senator Clinton may see the merits of having to do the Kaboki dance for the Dems but come the convention…
and after that…November
and oh btw, Obama “beat the bejesus” out of Hillary like Bush beat the bejesus out of Gore- with fewer votes and a rigged system. So stuff that.
Haha, amen brother.
NOBAMA!!!!
Yup–she even took south dakota from him by ten points on the last night. Obama won because he racked up a delagate lead in anti-democratic caucus sttates in Februarry. After that she won every state she was supposed to and took too of his–she also won 500K more voters in that period.
Clearly, Obama folks cannot deal with facts.
Get this:
I do not support obama because of his policies. stop with the straw men arguments already.
Do you even realize what the democratic party has done? This is not about Hillary not being the candidate, this is about an unqualified candidate with no experience and highly questionable associations that the Democratic Party shoved down people’s throats. Sadly people will go to the polls in Nov and just check off any name with a “D” next to it because that is what they do and the Dem party is counting on that. Except now there is this “fringe” element, of unknown numbers (and growing) that have opened their eyes and realized what has happened and will not vote for that “D”. And stop with the differences between Hillary & McCain’s issues, we all know what they are — fact is, we only have two choices at this point and McCain is the most qualified of those two. And most important McCain has proven his love and service to this country, which is paramount to any person for wishing to be President. Shame on the democrats for even thinking BHO has those qualities.
You waste your time PhxNickD, Obama supporters have thick heads, it’s like talking to a wall. They come here everyday with their rude, same old sorry crap about getting on board. Maybe they need reading comprehension 101. Obamabots try and tell us we should have no problem voting for Obama because he and Hillary were alike on issues. Well, one problem with that is that Obama is a schizophrenic and we really don’t know where he will stand from one day to the next. This is my country and I love it. I will not now or every risk it on someone like Obama.
Just like Obama supporters “laid off” of Hillary during the primary? I thought we were doing that already!
Please feel free to drop dead.
The only fact I will face is your inability to think critically.
Take your political blackmail and your Democratic Party talking points somewhere else.
STFU you gullible idiot! McCain, as much as you want him to be, IS NOT Bush.
Your too too f’in stupid for your own good!
I don’t know WHAT BO stands for…nobody does, he changes his mind daily. So how do you know what kind of President he will be? He votes present or doesn’t bother to show up at all. He flip-flops all over the place. He is naive about the reality of the world we live in at best, and dangerously naive at worst.
He’s quite willing to smear his opponent as racist and dreams up scenarios where she wished his assassination. He spent 20 years and tens of thousands of dollars supporting a racist church. His spiritual advisors all appear to be NUTS.
He has minimal accomplishments of any kind. He tires easily, lacks energy and becomes board about 6 months in on any job he’s ever held.
He is also secretive, duplicitous and arrogant. In other words, Barack Obama = George W. Bush
Leave Barak Alone!!! wah, wah, boo hoo. Poor little Barak.
Sorry, Jack he’s just a willing pawn in the DNC “Progressives” game. A shill if you like. But in no way is he presidential material. He’s a low class, low life poser, nothing more. And, if you don’t know that old saying about the silk purse…well, look it up.
Remember your own words in November…
“I know how hard it is when an ideal you worked for and supported dosent pan out,”
Then, it’ll be your turn to “Get over it.”
Hillary or McCain 08!!!!!!!
It’s also a FACT that Obama is FOR FISA, NAFTA, and PRIVATE CAMPAIGN FINANCING. Same as Bush. Obama has stated that he has the same view of Iraq as Bush does. He’s floated the idea of privatizing Social Security. He’s said he would NOT rule out attacking IRAN. So how is Obama any different from Bush?
You’d expect such things from McCain. No surprise there. But Obama has done a 180 on views he claimed he staunchly held. He’s also courting Right-wing Evangelicals, OPENLY.
How’s that for WOMENS’ rights? How’s that for GAY rights? How’s that for CIVIL RIGHTS?
Oh that’s right. Once Obama takes the Oval Office all will be fixed. Simply because of his presence. That’s called “magical thinking”.
If I wanted more of the Republican graft in the White House, I would vote for Obama. And why are you getting on McCain for having a temper when Obama has thrown some powerful hissy fits when Hillary didn’t knuckle under quickly enough? I don’t want a self-centered, big baby in the White House; I want someone who has the experience to know what to do in various pressure situations. Guess what–Obama’s not that person.
It’s very interesting how the Obama people can always come up with how he has put togather a network to raise funds. However there is no effort to tell the voter what he will do for the good of the country. Even if he wins, he will owe so many people favors that he will not have any say so in how the country is run. Who does he think he is fooling about what he will do. He will do what his money people tell him to do. That is evident in the fact that he can’t speak unless someone has written something for him to say. Without paper or teleprompter this guy is lost
Look here, Jackbot,
If you believe for one minute that Obama’s campaign contributions came from small internet donors and not big corporate bundlers, then you, my friend, are clearly delusional. But, wait, your comments prove you ARE delusional. Enough said.
Stop buying drinks at the Koolaid stands…they can be harmful to your health.
Fact is the people here besides you idiots without brains are not voting for your guy bub.
That’s the facts.
He was a AWOL Senator and corrupt on top of that. I voted for him once too many times already thank you so very much for your concern.
WP has the real details
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/19/AR2008061903027_pf.html
He can say 90% donors are small but that says nothing about how much the big donors give. Big donors above 60 % over the long run, the latest may be anomaly due to new people including those switching to the “winner”. And of course says nothing about bundling…………
It’s assumed that the flow of cash will continue through the fall campaign. Nothing is for certain in this life. The decision might not be as good as some think because the economy is under stress. Small donors, even if not maxed out by law, may be maxed out by the price of gasoline. But we know Obama is not versed in the economics. In my opinion it was a bad move. McCain has a very wealthy wife who may be willing to help her husband by giving money to 527s.
Now that we are pretty sure the DNC and all the “fellas” running this whorror show are going to pimp out Obama, all of us will be expected to receive him. Dean & Co. have taken this prick and decided to shove him down our throats and we are expected to just kneel down before him and swallow whatever comes our way.
This is one Democrat who is not taking part in this grand Party. I have had my fill, thank you. I hope all of you will stop paying the DNC for their “services” and cut them off from funds. If we don’t pay, they can’t play!
Hillary knew the risks going into this campaign. No way I would contribute to any person, Hillary or other, who endorses or campaigns for Obama. NO DEAL!
I was an Edwards supporter, but he is NOT going to influence me to vote for Obama; I will vote Nader. The more I know about Obama the less I respect him which is why I never voted for Obama in the first place. He’s NOT a populist. He’s NOT a progressive. He is a deeply flawed candidate. No way Obama-NEVER, and I have voted Dem since Carter ran for a second term.
Ralph has started to weigh in today about Obama and he is right on target. I will vote McCain but we can’t underestimate the value of Nader this time.
I believe Nader will pick up even more Democrats this election as the fall-out begins over continued Obama flips…and just as I was about to ask: “Where is Ralph Nader now that we really need him?”
All is forgiven, Ralph.
Annie, Where did you find the article about Ralph? Thanks.
It has been on Fox news several times today.
When Ralph admits he helped install Bush in the White House, I might consider forgiving him. Until that happens, Ralph means nothing to me.
I like Nader too. Nobama!
Oh, please, if you really want to defeat Obama, we must vote for McCain. I like Nader, too, but unless Hillary rises at the convention, we have to give the numbers to McCain to defeat the bastard, Obama. Not voting or writing in your vote won’t help defeat him, either. Hopefully, come November, we will all have a plan and stick together. Thanks!
This is DUE to the Clintons supporters who are FALLING in line like SUCKERS
June 25, 2008
Gallup Daily: Obama, McCain Tied at 45%
Voter preferences had been fairly evenly divided for the past week, with Obama generally holding a slight advantage of two or three percentage points. This is the first time since Gallup’s May 31-June 4 rolling average that Obama does not have at least a slim advantage over McCain. Obama’s largest lead to date has been seven points. (To view the complete trend since March 7, 2008, click here.)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/108376/Gallup-Daily-Obama-McCain-Tied-45.aspx
http://www.johnmccain.com/
He’s looking better everyday…
(I’ve voted Dem since 1971)…
Kiss my ass Pelosi and Dean…
Amen!
The ONLY thing that Obama has said that I believe is that he knows how to fight dirty. Other than that the guy is a serial liar.
Obama needs Hillary to lead the way so he knows what to talk about at these rallies. He hasn’t had an original idea the whole campaign. She’ll show him up as usual and maybe, just maybe the Kool-Aid will start wearing off……..
web.israelinsider.com
Obama fake birth certificate
Reuven Koret
6-24-08
My certificate in mid 50’s listed both parents religion and race
My opionion from all I have read
Obama
Mom-athesist
Father-Muslim
Axelrod is the grease Hey ask his pastor Father Plegler amen
All these Obama supporters stumbling to rationalize Obama’s broken promise reminds me of the a phrase my father says all the time (I think it is a quote from Seneca): “The language of truth is simple.”
As soon as you hear people playing mental gymnastics to try to rationalize what Obama really meant was this, or he didn’t exactly say that, or to understand what he means you have to place it in whatever context…. then, you know someone is not telling the truth and does not stand for the truth.
What is worse, shame on the media (e.g. Gergen on CNN, posting for the AC 360 blog) for jumping on the Obama-wagon to spin Obama’s broken promise as an example of his executive abilities. Obama is a phony and a panderer. He has always been this and the only “change” he believes in is his right to change his mind about everything every five minutes.
Further, if you go to factcheck.org, you have proof that the RNC and McCain do NOT have all this special interest, PAC and lobbyist money Obama refers to as one justification. Something in the range of 1.1% of the republican’s money comes from any of these private special interest groups. Obama is just a fear-monger.
SBwa: Indeed!
i just dont understand how both of the clintons can support obama in any way. after all that he did to them, even because its “politics”, how can they do it ? surely hillary knows we are behind her and will not under any circumstances vote for that fraud. how can she stand on a stage with that piece of crap in a town named unity of all things and support him ? it just makes me sick that she is doing this, gag,…..sorry
I just got off the phone with a woman from Emily’s list who tried to brow beat me into donating. Not fair to penalize 23 women because one didn’t win! Then she has the chutzpah to mention BEV PERDUE in the same breath with ANNE RICHARDS! Are you freaking kidding me? I am more likely to equate Bev with FRANK PERDUE … the chiken guy. I don’t think that she expected me to know that Bev supported Barry. Than she tried to beat me over the head with ROE v. WADE …. Can you believe it? I pushed back and told her that perhaps if women were concerned about Roe they might have wanted to more forcefully explain to Democrats that Barry voted PRESENT instead of Yes or No SEVEN times in Illinois. I told her that unlike Barry I was staying with my principles.
I hope that every one of you who gets a call from them lets them HAVE IT. No more Dollars for Democrats. Especially when they are “little d” Democrats!
I’m upset; mine didn’t drop any names. She just tried the old “we women have to stick together to win the White House and Congress for Democrats” line. At that point I got a little pissed and told her that I would be giving no more money to the DNC and Emily’s List because of the likes of Gregoire, Napolitano, Pelosi, etc. who knifed Hillary in the back. I told her if I gave any money it would be to Hillary to pay off her campaign debt. I also told her Obama is not the person I want to see in the White House. At that point, she seemed insulted that I didn’t see the light and bade me a not so fond adieu.
Uh, John, chill out, dude.
I said Hilarys campaign was fat and corn fed. I meant no physical slight towards Hilary.
By that, I mean she spent a hell of a lot of money on overpriced political consultants, had cadillac tastes as far as spending (at least until they started losing)and had an initially flawed campaign objective:
Destroy the opposition on super Tuesday, then declare the nonmination race over.
I Dont blame her too much, almost all the chattering class were saying the same. Up until Iowa, Hilary was considered unbeatable. I have read several articles on the spendthrift habits of the Hilary campaign before Super Tuesday.
OTOH, Obama came up with a grassroots campaign model and fund raising strategy which won the nomination.
And please, Stop with the “Hilary got more votes”
I am sure if Obama had run in FL and MI he would have bested Hilary in popular votes also… and the way to be the democratic nominee is to win the delegate votes, which, as I recall, is what Hilary agreed with in the early part of the campaign. And the rules the Democratic Party set. If you dont like them, then work to change them for 2012.
So, John, there is no bile, at least not from me. If Hilary had won, I would be supporting her and our party. She is undoubtedly the better choice over McCain.
So you want to vote for McCain, John? So,if he is elected, how will you feel when we bomb Iran on Jan 25, 2009, and John Bolton is SecDef? or SecState? and the corruption and death continues in Iraq? Will cutting off your nose to spite your face make you happy also??
Blah blah blah. What part of my reply to you sounded like “please, explain to me more why I should support Obama?” I thought I was being very clear before, but since you are an Obama supporter, I will go more slowly this time:
1. I’m voting for McCain
2. I don’t need to explain this to you or anyone else.
3. I don’t care if you don’t understand.
4. Feel free to hold your breath till you turn blue. I am NOT VOTING FOR OBAMA.
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
Get it now?
Seems pretty darned clear to me, John.
Apparently you read something in my reply which sounded like “please bleat to me all the lame Obamabot talking points you were coached to deliver on cue,” as well. I’ve heard all that crap before- Obama would have won Florida and Michigan (yeah, right,) both candidates agreed those states wouldn’t count, Obama ran a grassroots campaign, Hillary was waiting to be coronated, and on and on AND ON.
And your brilliant “and please, stop with the ‘Hillary got more votes’” comeback. Because you can’t refute that. Hillary got more votes. That being inconvenient to your “arguments” (using that term losely), let’s just move on.
I have a better idea. You march to the polls like a good little lemming and vote for the guy who calls himself a Democrat. I’ll go vote for the guy I think will do the best job, regardless of party affiliation. I won’t be blackmailed with “But what about the SCOTUS!!” crap. I know that will make your brain explode, but the mess left behind will be minimal anyway.
John: Too good! Love it.
Remind me never to get into a debate with you. You’re too good with words. The appropriate response after reading that last sentence should be “Ouch!”.
Well, I’d rather them be bombing over there, than the fighting that will take place here. Remember Bin Ladin said the next time would be from within.
I firmly believe that Obama is that within. I will never vote for the sob Hillary or no Hillary. I have never voted for a republican of any kind in my long life, but you can bet your sweet ass this time it’s coming. My country over party any day of the week. Obama is a danger to our country. How can anyone support him is beyond me. He hates white people, she hates white people. Why can’t you see that? He said so out of his own mouth. “I nursed a pervasive grievance against my mother’s race, the white race, as they would always be alien, apart and mean.” Remember Michelle saying “America is mean” ? I don’t need Obama to save my soul. I need someone to save this country and it emphatically is not Obama. No Way.
You must have missed the news yesterday. Bush is talking about taking out Iran’s “nuclear facilities” before he leaves office.
Oh the horror… Obama flip flopped on campaign finance reform. Oh, wow. The world is ending, a politician changed his mind.
EVERY POLITICIAN CHANGES THEIR MIND.
McCain is being sued by the DNC over his own shennagans violating FEC laws (using promise of public fianancing to make a campaign loan pre primary when his campaign was circling the drain). And this is MR CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM. He has flip flopped tons since 2000, so if flip floping is your criteria, Obama is still better than McCain.
Hilary stated early in primary season that the nomination would be decided by delegate count… Only when she started losing the delegate count did she trot out the “popular vote” argument.
And Bill Clinton.. God, I love the guy, and would vote for him if he could run this year, but he flip flopped his way thru 2 terms as pres, and I am glad he did. He kept the republican wolves at bay for 8 years, thank god.
You cant always get what you want. Perfectly consistent politicians are called losers.
With the advantages the party and the Obama campaign have in fund raising this year, He would be crazy not to go private.
Plus, all politicians build wriggle room into their statements, and I am sure Obama did in his statements.
Oh, now you are just being too hilarious. I thought Obama was DIFFERENT. I thought Obama was SPECIAL and NEW because he was ABOVE POLITICS AS USUAL. Wasn’t that what all that Hope and Change crap was all about?
Now you are telling us that it’s ok for Obama to flip flop on a key issue, because Bill and Hillary Clinton are flip floppers! So Obama ISNT different! He’s just another politician! All that “change” crap was just for the primary voters!
You Obamabots are absolutely hysterical. Please, keep posting. The mental gymnastics you idiots go through to defend your lying, manipulating, shallow weasel of a candidate is just too funny to miss.
Exactly!
**NEWS UPDATE**
Potential VP for Obama Does Business With Iran…
More Info At: http://WWW.OBAMA-WIRE.COM
ms zulu,
Ah no. Obama will help Hilary pay off some/part/or all of her campaign debt based on his need for her support. Hilary’s campaign debt was caused by her continuing the campaign long after she should have graciously admitted that Obama had won.
John, I did not say that Obama would have won MI and FL. I think he would have won his fair share and possibly won one of them, possibly MI due to Detroit and its suburbs and cities like Benton Harbor.
Also, John, no fictional “obamabot” directs my thoughts on politics. Only when I was stupid and 18 yrs old in 72 have I voted for a Republican for pres, and I learned my lesson good that year. Voted demo every other Pres election. supported Hart in 84, but voted for Mondale when he won the nomination, supported Clarke in 04, and voted for Kerry in the general. I find that democrats, with all of their faults, are better for the average American than elitist and corrupt republicans.
I find Obama flawed, but I find McCain even worse. I am a veteran , and I respect McCains sacrifice and service, but I dont respect his decision making, especially when he went in the bag for Bush after the 2000 election. He had the chance to run with Kerry as Vice president in 2004, which would have won the election for the Dems and been much better for our nation. Instead, he put his own ambition to be president in 2008 over the good of the nation. Because of that, we are still bogged down in Iraq, and Afghanistan is still a mess, and Osama is still loose. Enabling GWB all these many years lost most of the respect for McCain I use to have for him.
John,
Obama will be a change, just because of the historic nature of he would be our first president that isnt a white, protestant man. All successful candidates run on change, at least their first term. I never thought Obama would bring in the “new age”. I just think we need a demo pres and Congress to undo the huge damage bush has done to the country. Cant do it without the Executive branch. ergo, I will vote for the democratic nominee. If for some reason Obama pulled out of the race, and the dems picked hilary to run, I will vote for her.
Again, on average, dems do better for the average man than repubs, in wages, public financing, etc. Again, be partisan for your party, not for one candidate.
Now you’ve admitted you are a racist as well, who only sees Obama’s skin color. “He’ll be a change, because all we’ve ever had is white, protestant men” (the Kennedy family would be surprised to hear this, and it seems to me we’ve never had a female President either.) So if Obama does exactly what every politician does, its still change, because its a BLACK GUY DOING IT.
Please, stop now. You are literally Made of Fail.
John, here is a post I made on another forum about McCain, why not take a look, and agree or disagree.
“Critics believe that the [USAF] service’s leadership–dominated by career fighter pilots–had become arrogant and unresponsive, with little accountability for senior officers and civilian officials.” …. oomment form story on why SecDef Gates fired the Secretary of the AF and the Chief of Staff of the Air Force, over many problems the USAF is experiencing, capped by the loss of control over 6 nuclear armed ACLMs that were flown from Minot AFB to Barksdale AFB without the aircrew knowing they had nuclear warheads.
John McCain = arrogant, unresponsive Navy fighter pilot? Based on his reputed temper, his weird comments like Bomb,Bomb, Bomb Iran, getting mixed up with Keating Five, and still posing as a maverick when his top campaign staff is/was composed of 59 lobbyists. Besides being shot down over Hanoi, he has managed to crash 3 other aircraft during his navy career, and had a bad rep as an administrator when finally picked to be a squadron commander. He was not seriously considered for admiral rank, which he knew and propelled him to go into politics.
Methinks McCain would be a terrible president, maybe not as bad a Bush II(hmm, another fighter jock, albeit not in combat), but still a bad executive.
Stereotypes exist for a reason..because the are often deserved.
I was an infantry officer stationed in Germany 76-79 at a small post where an attack helicopter company was also based, so we interacted a lot with the chopper pilots, almost all of them with Vietnam experience. Great guys to party with, would want them supporting you in combat. Great managers/administrators? Not so much. Maybe thats why the Army makes almost all of its pilots warrant officers, rather than commissioned officers. They get to do what they really like-Fly and after hours, party hard. Maybe the USAF might consider transitioning to that model. The RAF used the NCO/Flight officer model during WWII also. Using the Warrant Officer system still allows pilots to get the status and pay they deserve, without requiring them to work in administrative areas most are not interested in.
McCain’s personal life seems to epitomize the fighter jock mentality- hard partying, womanizing, kicking his first wife to the curb after her car wreck ruined her looks, and the young, millionaire trophy wife. I sure don’t want another president not interested in the hard work needed to ride herd on the government bureaucracy. We already have the last 7 years of mismanagement as an example.
Add to the above the huge number of flip flops he’s made since 2000, I just dont think McCain is competent to be president.
Annnnnd you think a coked out, racist, crooked, wimpy, milktoast, limp wristed moron who’s never served in the military is a BETTER CHOICE?! Yikes.
Jack - you stated: Critics believe that the [USAF] service’s leadership–dominated by career fighter pilots–had become arrogant and unresponsive, with little accountability for senior officers and civilian officials.”
Guess who rearranged the USAF to be dominated by fighter pilots? Gen McPeak, you know the guy that’s an advisor to Obama. He wanted to “change” the USAF cuz fighter pilots where not getting command positions. Google McPeak for the entire story. USAF is still messed up due to McPeak’s change. Do you want this for America?
I just watched a live press conference from Chicago, after Senator Obama’s meeting with a business group. The question was asked, are you concerned that your recent decision not to participate in public campaign financing will be seen as a flip-flop? The candidate replied, ‘I did not flip flop; rather, in the past, I only inquired as to the possibility of participating in the public system. In fact, checking back over my record, even Republicans admit, I have been consistent in my position. It’s John McCain who tried to opt out of the system. He’s flip flopped over several positions in the past few weeks.’ Geesh… Don’t these reporters read the blogs? Don’t they have laptops? Couldn’t even one of them bring up the video of Senator Obama (any one of the several examples on YouTube) extolling the virtues of public financing? This is so frustrating; I was yelling at the t.v. again. Geesh…
“methinks,” “Ergo,” ….who the hell are you trying to impress?
I don’t like John McCain. Voting for him is not an easy choice for me. But I can NOT for Obama, who has already begun to dump his “principles” overboard even before getting into the White House.
METHINKS thou dost protest too much. ERGO, I suggest you call it a day and head off to Huffingtonpost, MoveOn.org, ET AL.
See, I can use pretentious language, too.
For Strawberry bites Barky….
Uh, straw baby, GW Bush is president now. Who else could you possibly be talking about?? lets do the check list:
coked out: yep, georgie in the 70’s and possibly 80’s.
racist: After Katrina and a lot of his crazy remarks, yeah, he’s a racist.
crooked: Arbusto, the other scams he ran, the eminent domain trick to build Ranger stadium, check, Bush is crooked.
wimpy: Cheerleader at andover, not on the football team.
milktoast, limp wristed: Real Texans think so, Bush owns a hobby farm, not a ranch. Never see him on a horse cause he is afraid of them
moron: Yep, that’s our president.
who’s never served in the military: Yeah, the Champagne flight of the Texas ANG is not really the military.
Like I’ve stated before, Barky is the leftwing Bush. But unlike republicans, I refuse to walk lockstep off a cliff and force him onto the American people. Good night fellow No Quarterians, off to the dojang.
Uh, you do know Bush isn’t running?
John, and racist slur..
Uh, John, I am not a racist. I made a basic statment that Obama would be the first black President. If Hilary were elected president, it would be historic also. and yeah, yah got me about Kennedey. But he sure had to run away from being Catholic, just as Obama trys to run, in my opinion, a rather bland campaign that does not emphasize his race. But he has to address it, at times, this country still has a racist element.
John, I dont think you have ever met a real racist. I am from the south, and have had to put up with a lot of racists in my time. But even when I was ten and eleven, my heroes were the freedom riders, MLK, Medgar Evers, and the Selma Marchers. I served in the US Army, the most color blind institution in the world, and proudly served under black officers, including a 3 star general and a 1 star general.
You are probably too young to know what real racism is. I am not a racist, and I have seen that term thrown around a lot on this thread, with little reason.
Kennedy “ran away from being a Catholic?” Christ, you get dumber with every post. Kennedy faced the religion issue head on with a speech that apparently everyone in the United States has heard or heard about, except you.
You also shift tactics with every post. First you praise Obama for beating the Clinton money machine. Then you say you weren’t trashing Clinton. Then you say what Obama will be different because he’s black, then you say you didn’t say that. Now you’ve moved on to the Defense of Last Resort: call the person you are arguing with “too young” to understand, while pumping up your own resume (which can’t be verified, but that’s the beauty of the internet.) You remind me of the callers to CSPAN’s Washington Journal who start off with “I’m a Vietnam Veteran, so don’t cut me off…” implying that they are NOT to be contradicted because, after all, You Weren’t There.
Maybe you served in the military, marched in Selma, had several meetings with several presidents, and started a wildly successful shrimp-canning company. That doesn’t make your opinion more valid than mine. The fact is that you’ve said repeatedly that A) it was, in your opinion, perfectly ok for Obama to LIE about the way he planned to finance his campaign because “all politicians do it” and B) Anything Obama does is “differnent” because he’s BLACK. Oh, but you are not a racist, because Some Of Your Best Friends Are Black and you marched at Selma.
Save me the lecture, buddy. You don’t know how old I am or what my life experience is. Go condescend somewhere else.
Military men and women, correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the army segregated till Truman?
AA4Hill
Have you listened to the MSM spin on the polls? Obama ahead by 12 and 15 points.
What the hell?
Gallup the most trusted has them at 45/45
The polls are all over, but in the aggregate, go look at http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/.
Right now, it shows Obama winning 344.8 electoral votes vs 193.2 for McCain.
Popular vote is closer, 52.9 v 47.1
why media slobbering over Obama by 12 to 15 is probably recent Newsweek poll showing Obama up by 15 over McCain.
All that being said, these polls are not worth spit. Only time to take polls more seriously is between September and election day.
Lemme see if I’ve got this private campaign funding issue straight:
People are upset because Obama chose what Obama needed to do choose to win the election?
Alas, that’s how the game of politics was, is, and probably always will be played.
There’s a general term for any politican who doesn’t play the presidential election game that way:
The Loser.
(Sorry about the syntax error. There’s a superfluous do up there. It’s been a long day…)
If you want to know the future, look at the present. A president that will not keep his words and stand up for principle looks exactly like Obama.
Obama raised 22 million in May, McCain 21 million.
McCain has 31.6 million on hand, Obama 33.3 million.
The RNC has 53 million on hand, the DNC 3.9 million.
Denver is short 11 million to fund the Democratic National Convention and may have to cut activities.
From reporting of funds as of May 31st.
Why did Obama raise only 22 million in May when he was declared the winner by the media and most of the democratic elitist establishment?
Why are DNC funds so low when Howie and Donna tell us their “annointed” candidate is able to raise huge amounts of money?
Perhaps Obama doesn’t have the funds to pay down Hillary’s debt even if he actually wanted to do so?
Why is anyone still using the word “privatizing” when the correct word is “profitizing?” If we all get in the habit, then the concept will quickly sour on people who haven’t been thinking it out. Words matter — “private” sounds like something good for me, while “profit” sounds like somebody taking advantage of me, which is exactly what it is. Let’s be the ones who say it like it really is — words matter!
Former democrat……..now Republican…….I cannot be apart of such corruption.
*raised eyebrows* You’re fleeing to the republican camp in search of honesty?
http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/293155
When Obama opted out of the presidential public financing system, it was merely disappointing. But McCain opting out–after securing a $4 million line of campaign credit from Fidelity & Trust Bank, using the public money he’d officially opted for as surety–may have actually have been illegal.
http://www.washingtonindependent.com/view/watchdog-group-files
John,
Why do you persist in distorting what I said?
I did not trash Hilary personally, I critizied her campaign. Since she lost, there must be something to what I said.
Its not the “defense of last resort” to invoke experience , after years of internet political discussion, it seems to me that younger posters are usually the most vitrolic about their ideas. They also resort to invective more often…That being said, you may be an crotchty 90 year old. I’ve probably argued with a few of them over the years.
I didnt pump my resume. I did serve in the US Army from 75 to 80 as an infantry officer. I did not claim any combat experience, did not claim to serve in Vietnam. I was trained, in ROTC and in various Army schools, and proudly served, also did reserve time til 88. I stay versed on military subjects because of that background and my college degree, history, where I concentrated on US military, diplomatic and political history in the 20 century. Later took some graduate history classes in these topics at UNC-Chapel Hill. I have been a current events and politics junkie my entire life, since I was old enough to read our local paper ( a pretty good one), and the liberal regional paper, the Charlotte Observer. My dad subscribed to those papers, and was a local democratic chairman. I inherited my politics jag from him. He was a wounded veteran of WWII. My older brother served in Vietnam as an infantry officer for 2 combat tours, and served a 20 year career. He then served 22 years teaching JROTC at an Alabama high school. Along the way he got a masters in international relations from Boston University. My little brother served 4 years active duty as an Army Medic, then another 10 in reserves. My mother served during WWII in the WAC and was trained and served as a physical therapist. She met my dad while he was being treated for his shattered femur. Everyone in my immediate family except my sister served time in the US Army, so maybe thats why I am so interested in military subjects. Thus the comments on McCain and his fighter jock mentality. BTW, I have met a few AF fighter jocks, when they served as close air support liaison officers with our infantry battalion. And as I mentioned before, I was at a post for 4 years with the Army version of fighter pilots, attack helicopter pilots. That’s some of the things that shaped my opinion.
I will be 55 next month, so I was too young to march at Selma, but I sure watched the news coverage. Read more carefully, I said I that MLK , Medgar Evers,the Selma marchers were my heroes, not that I marched with them. Is there something pathological about you that requires you distort the comments of those that disagree with you??
I remember the days of coverage of the Kennedy assassination, and was watching on Saturday morning when Ruby shot Oswald on live TV. I had to read the telegram from the Defense Department to my mother, sister and brother when my older brother was wounded in Vietnam (the first of 7 times). She couldn’t stand to read it, since her first husband was killed in WWII, and my dad was in the hospital. Afterwards, my older brother made sure they didnt send a telegram, since he didnt want to upset Mom. He would just write and say, well I just got to spend a few weeks loafing in the hospital because….
So, the above is where I come from, to some extent. Of course what I post is my opinion, I dont pretend to be perfect I did forget about Kennedy being Catholic. Guess I should amend my remark that all presidents of the USA have been male, white, christians. Does that make you feel better? ‘Course, we could quibble even there, since Jefferson and some of the other “Founding fathers” presidents were probably Deists. And my memory of the Kennedy /Catholic issue is it became an issue, he made the speech, and the topic was pretty much dropped. He sure didnt bring it up, so far as I can tell from a cursery Googgle search, so that’s where the “ran away from it” comment came from.
Why the bio info above? Well, let’s see. I foolishy thought that discussion threads were for just that, discussion. Not just venting spleen about how much you hate Obama, or what a liar he is. Yes, we all have opinions. But it seems to me that you want the liberty to attack others opinions, yet your opinion that you are voting for McCain no matter what, should not be subject to debate. Your opinion is just as good as anyone elses. Or as we said in the Army, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
I thought the idea is to debate the issues, not personally attack the debaters. If we are to debate the issues, then it might be nice to go into WHY we have the opinions we have; what facts are they based on and then how are our opinions formed thru the posters experiences? How do we understand where we come from on the facts and the opinions expressed based on those facts? If your facts are flawed, or have been incorrectly interpreted, then perhaps the others interested in the thread might like to understand where you are coming from. Or point out what they think are the mistakes in your arguement. And point out the facts/ experiences that have driven them to come to different opinions. After a thorough discussion, then the thread followers can come to an informed decision on the question debated.
Back to your last post, no where did I say or imply that “B) Anything Obama does is “differnent” because he’s BLACK. “
Lets deconstruct that first. I said Obama would be an historic president, due to his race. Also said Hilary would be historic if elected president due to her sex. Both are true statements.
Next, your comment: “A) it was, in your opinion, perfectly ok for Obama to LIE about the way he planned to finance his campaign because “all politicians do it”
No, John, I said that all politicians flip flop. Obama is a politician, ergo, he is going to flip flop. You can call it a lie, or be a little more charitable and call it a flip flop. Others might call it changing your mind, based on changing circumstances.
Take an extreme example. FDR said he would remain neutral on the war in Europe. Yet, he later requested that Congress declare war on Germany. So, should we say FDR was a liar? Or could we note that first Japan attacked us at Pearl Harbor, and at almost the same time declared war on the US. Then on December 9th , 1941, Germany, following their interests,and their ally’s actions, declared war on the US. I think we could say that FDR had legitimately changed his mind when he requested Congress declare war on Germany. The Situation had changed. Radically. But even in this, you can delve deeper. Many historians have documented that the US under FDR tilted towards England, used Lend Lease to shove as much support as possible to the British, and that the US Navy was fighting an undeclared war on German submarines in the Atlantic prior to December 9th 1941. In the east, the US under FDR’s leadership covertly funded the Flying Tigers of China against Japan and allowed USAAC pilots to fly for the Chinese as mercenaries. After Pearl Harbor, those Pilots came back into the US forces.
Most things that politicians flip flop on are not that history shaking, but events change, and politicians are and have changed their minds on a whole lot of things as the situations change. And will do so for in the future.
That’s not being cynical, that is just being truthful, based on history.
Now, getting back to the debate,
Your position is, Obama lies (flip flops) so I am voting for McCain.
My response is to direct you to this interesting post on Crooks and Liars:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/16/mccain-sets-a-new-record-10-flip-flops-in-two-weeks/
“ McCain Sets a New Record: 10 Flip-Flops in Two Weeks”
by Jon Perr on Monday, June 16th 2008….
The 10 flip flops are on:
1.Social Security Privitization.
2.Raising- and Slashing Defense Spending
3.First Term balanced Budget Pledge.
4.The Media’s Treatment of Hilary
5.The Estate Tax
6.FISA, Domestic Survillence and Telecom Immunity
7.Restoring the Everglades
8.Divestment from South Africa
9.Fighting Job losses in Michigan
10.Opposing hurricane Katrina Investigations.
My, even more recent flip flops than I thought. So, if your opposition to Obama is on his lies/flip flops, how does this make you feel about McCain?? What is your opinion of McCain now??
Balls in your court, John.
It isn’t bad enough they come here to blabber, but geez they do go on and on.
Yeah. It’s especially annoying when they raise valid points.
Mahaska, do you want to discuss or just vent your spleen?
Got anything factual to point out, or are you just too far gone?
I tried to point out where I am coming from, and why I have my ideas/opinions, due to challenges from John. If you are too lazy to follow the thread, then perhaps you might want to refrain from commenting.
No, you can have your opinion. for what its worth.
Mahaska,
Or are you of the generation where the sound bite went from 9 to 7 seconds?
I know it is SUCH a drag to read a LOOONG post, even if it is on a complex subject. Got to have your opinion/facts in 3 sentences or less, eh?
Oh sorry Mahaska, you do get a cookie.
Military was desegregated under Harry Truman in 1948. so by the time I was in the military, from 1975 to 1980, that had allowed many black officers to reach general officer rank, as I mentioned..I served under and got to meet, a black 3 star general, Julius Becton, VII Corps commander, and a 1 star black general who was assistant division commander for the 1st Armored Division.
Prior to 1948, there had only been one black general, during WWII. Strangely enough, my dad got to meet him while he was still a LTC during the big one.
Hope this wasnt too long an answer for you!!
Thanks for the support, realist.