Sweet Jesus! Obama Proclaims Faith in Faith-Based Initiatives?
By Deb Cupples on July 2, 2008 at 11:15 PM in 1st Amendment, Associated Press, Bamboozling, Barack Obama, Obamatopia
Some of our Founding Fathers had a colorful way of speaking. Thomas Paine, for example, said this about the separation of church and state:
"Soon after I had published the pamphlet `Common Sense’ in America I saw the exceeding probability that a revolution in the system of government would be followed by a revolution in the system of religion.
"The adulterous connection of church and state, wherever it had taken place, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, had so effectually prohibited by pains and penalties every discussion upon established creeds, and upon first principles of religion, that until the system of government should be changed those subjects could not be."
That said, I’m more than a bit surprised that Sen. Barack Obama seems to be proposing less (rather than more) separation between church and state. Yesterday, the God-O-Meter blog reported:
"Faith without works, they say, is dead–and that faith without
conservative social positions shouldn’t be enough to win the hearts of values voters.
"That’s why Obama’s announcement today about wanting to expand President Bush’s Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives into what he’s calling a President’s Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships, is so significant. Not only is Obama showing how faith would shape policy in his administration, he’s being so bold as to criticize Bush’s faith-based program for not going far enough in opening the federal social services spigot to
churches and other faith-based groups."In effect, he’s out-Bushing George W. Bush in one of the President’s specialty areas–connecting faith and public policy." (God-O-Meter)
Well, Sen. Obama did promise "change," and outspending President Bush on faith-based initiatives technically would constitute a change.
But is this the type of change that most Obama supporters can truly get behind and believe in — especially on the heels of Sen. Obama’s reversal on NAFTA and FISA?
Claims that Sen. Obama has taken a sudden leap to the faith-based-initiative path would be too bizarre for me to believe, if the Associated Press hadn’t run a similar story. But the AP did run such a story yesterday.
I’m not quoting it or linking to it, because the AP has publicly stated that it doesn’t like being quoted by bloggers who don’t pay for the privilege. Fine. The AP will, as a result of my respecting its preferences, get less traffic.
Back to my point: for years, Sen. Obama has taught constitutional law. Presumably, he understands our Constitution’s First Amendment, which is where our Founding Fathers inserted the “The Establishment Clause” — what we now shorthand as "The Separation of Church and State."
I love my church and faith we don’t want the government
Involved thank you.
That’s why the church doesn’t pay taxes.
Actually, that’s a really good point on my part: Why doesn’t the church pay taxes? Oh, oh, so they can get our tax money for free. I guess I can claim to the lord almighty jesus, that I really was tithing.
What’s scary is reading the cover up and rationalization at Big Orange Urinal.
They’re in total denial - because Sugardaddy Soros doesn’t want his Obambi dissed.
Taxation: how the sheep are shorn.
“Let them march all the want, as long as they pay their taxes.”
Oh, I meant, as long as they tithe.
I’m a lifelong Methodist, and I’ve pastored a church. I can tell you right now that those people don’t want the government messing around in their business. We already have a government called the United Methodist Conference. We don’t pay taxes, but we pay apportionments to the Conference that are 25% of the church’s total annual budget. The United Methodist church doesn’t need help from the government in carrying out faith-based initiatives. They’ve been doing just fine without the U.S. government to mess it up.
I think that Jesus actually made a clear definition of church and state when he said, “Render unto the Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and render unto God the things that are God’s.” That was in response, by the way, to the question of whether Jews should have to obey the laws of the Roman government, including paying taxes.
I. Absolutely. Despise. Obama.
And that’s the polite version.
BO is prostituting himself again. All he wants to do is win. He doesn’t care about faith-based initiatives anymore than he cared about filibustering the FISA bill or renouncing Fat Cat campaign donations.
BO = insincerity.
Do we want the hypothetical Obama administration subsidizing Black Liberation Theology? Doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.
I just despise all of this. This is outrageous. One of the people involved with the Bush programs resigned after the 2004 election saying they had used the programs to set up political bases during the election and to increase turn out among the Religious Right.
How can agent orange or any other group of so called liberals excuse this kind of duplicity. And where is the Democratic Party? Too busy moving to Chicago, I guess to pay attention. If I had ever entertained any idea about supporting him, it would have died a horrifying death in the last two weeks.
Did you see his speech? I know nothing about body language, but it looked as if he were hanging onto the podium so tight he was afraid he might float away. Someone needs to call a halt to this and I personally dare any superdelegate to have the guts to withdraw support from this faux Democrat.
I like the quote from Thomas Paine. I’ve been doing a little reading myself from Henry David Thoreau’s essay, Civil Disobedience. I really believe the delegates can create enough choas to take the party back if they were so inclined. Use their precious rules against them and the whole thing comes to a grinding halt.
The simplistic answer from McCain and Obama and Bush (interchangeable on this issue ) is that “faith-based organizations can do things better than government, so why not give them the money and let them keep doing it?”
Anyone with a brain would answer “because the moment you give one organization money and not another, you are breaking the First Amendment.” Seems pretty simple to me.
Here’s a better idea: Improve the way Government does things. Don’t OUTSOURCE RESPONSIBILITIES TO PRIVATE ORGANIZATIONS, religious or otherwise.
I don’t know about that. I bet he is sincere. Remember he belonged to a church that was big on community outreach so I would bet he is envisioning helping black liberation churches, Nation of Islam programs, etc. by expanding the amount of government funds available to them. (Something that we have had for years by the way. There used to be stringent rules to make sure programs - such as Catholic charities - that take public funds did not preach but Bush’s faith based intiative weakened that.)
There’s a website that discusses the legal challenges to faith-based initiatives (can I call it FBI?) and it had this comment by law professors examining the ability to control the programs (h/t to strongerthandirt over at MyDD):
Here’s a BIG problem is Barack starts handing out money, according to
http://www.religionandsocialpolicy.org/interviews/interview.cfm?id=172&pageMode=featured
The law professors there are experts in faith-based initiative litigation.
As others have suggested, are you comfortable with Chicago churches getting tons of money by order of Obama?
This is a variation on the Unitary Executive. BO or BHO or however we are supposed to refer to His Majesty is going to have a new influence rathole that can’t be touched by mere tax payers. I am getting kind of bitter about the Left.
Faith-based taxes go to TUCC for, oh say, after school programs. Personally, I think taxes should only go to programs like Head Start, but theoretically the expenditure is justified because TUCC can deliver the service better. Yet, TUCC also believes that middleclassness is a bad thing, and builds a mansion for Rev. Wright. How do I know that money TUCC saved/received from their after-school program didn’t go to stamp out middleclassness? Wouldn’t we need audits? Don’t we need transparency? And, as Lucinda pointed out above, aren’t these churches in danger of damaging what they stand for by involving it with taxes and the politicians who earmark them?
Or the Constitution. Does this man have ANY principles that he won’t pitch for votes?
Nah, he’s setting up Islamofascist “faith-based” initiatives.
I agree, I despise Obama, and all associated with him.
Obama’s stance on faith based initiatives, has changed as all of his positions change almost daily, then the minions come out and tell us how we are dumb to even question Obama’s lies, deception, and flip-flops.
My take on Obama’s two-faced stand on faith based initiatives:
Then: “Such programs are wrong and should be brought to a halt, I firmly believe in the separation of church and state.”
Now: “However, I am going to expand and increase funding for that thing where George Bush has been giving money to religious groups, whatever it is called. I need the votes, and a little religion is good for everybody, especially those that make their living off it.
Remember when he said:
Seems like he would rather shred it than respect it.
(Oh and he was a “senior lecturer” and never a professor.)
I was a constitutional law professor before I was against it.
This is not the constitutional law professor I knew.
The last time I saw the constitution, it was under the bus.
Constitutional law is a distraction.
dam you Amabo! Beat me to it!
“I was a constitutional law professor, which means unlike the current president I actually respect the Constitution.”
Just in the last 2 weeks, I guess that doesn’t apply to wiretapping, the 2nd amendment, or separation of church and state, since he’s changed his position on all of these issues. 2 weeks?!
Maybe he’ll start changing his name like Prince and his fan P.Diddy. Oh wait, he already has!
I’ve got the whitey tape. Michele calls David Blaine a whitey also.
Well, David Blaine (AKA David Blaine White), was born in Brooklyn to a father of Puerto Rican-Catholic descent and a mother of Russian-Jewish descent.
Maybe she was being hostile about his Russian-Jewish heritage?
If you really have the whitey tape, put it on youtube.
COMING TO A TV NEAR YOU IN LATE AUGUST
She’s New! She’s Fresh! She’s Passed Her ColorBlind Test!
Michelle Obama!
In the role Rev. Wright created solely for Her!
“WHAT’S WRONG WITH WHITEY!”
Rated: who cares
“Two thumbs up our butts” say the critical dudes
Very funny, but it’s hard to smile when I’m screaming things in my head.
LISTEN CAREFULLY: YOU-ARE-A-MORON.
Larry has REPEATEDLY stated that HE DOES NOT HAVE THE TAPE!! Are you THAT dense?!
Apparently so.
This is like watching a BAD movie(Attack of the Flip Flopping Pander)!!!! ONLY difference is its for REAL!!!!! NObama08
Obamachrist, Superstar, who do you think you are?
He’s the One!
We can weld Church and State into a unified being with him as POTUS.
Not to mention the wonderful idea of your tax dollars supporting the nearest medrassa?
“Not to mention the wonderful idea of your tax dollars supporting the nearest medrassa?”
With the bonus of outfits like TUCC having their faces down in the trough.
OBama’s little piggies?
If it happens, the little piggies will also have little wingies!
That school is here in Fairfax, VA.
http://www.news8.net/news/stories/0608/528950.html
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/391680.aspx
Just a 20 minute drive from the White House.
Or, just 5 minutes if using Marine 1.
The way this guy is going he will be pro-life by the end of the month. He has to make up somewhere for all the votes he looses every time he opens his mouth.
I decided after May that I would not contribute to any of the candidates or PACs but this development has me strongly considering not only giving money but actually helping out to defeat Obama.
How could anyone get behind this guy who is all over the place on everything issue that comes up.
Only thing I can remember that this guy took a stand on is not giving people a break on the gas tax. I heard some pundits claiming that to be a major conviction.
This guy is unbelievable!
Indeed, and as we move forward to the Convention we need to keep hammering that fact home.
He can’t beat McSame.
I find extremely troubling Obama’s new found religion in courting the far right evangelical vote. Not only is he proposing that Bush’s faith based initiatives should be maintained, but expanded! Now I see evangelicals swooning. But as all those late night TV commercials hawking the latest and latest worthless gadget say, “Wait, that’s not all!”
Of course Obama mumbles under his breadth that all this new federal money going to faith groups has a catch, there can not discrimination in your staffing or expenditure of money as to ideology for secular functions. Sounds reasonable but deeper down there is something more sinister.
What better way to gain federal control over faith groups than shower them with federal money. Faith will sell its soul to the federal government and lose its faith. Faith groups will be reduced to no more than federal funded community organizations since they will not be able to proselytize or promote their own faith. Anyway, with federal entitlement spending already eating up 65% of the federal budget and projected to grow in proportion, we do not need expansion into this area.
But wait there’s more. Private religious schools, especially the Catholic school system, are recognized as providing some of the most rigorous education in this country. With federal money controlling the curriculum, the private religious school system will be brought down to the lowered standards of the public school system to comply with the new federal regulations. This appears to be just another radical far left attempt to dumb the electorate down even further.
Evangelicals beware of the Pharisee in your midst.
Anyone want to bet the Evangelicals will fall for Barry’s horse apples? C’mon, I could use the money.
Evangelicals have very simple tests to see if Barry’s up to snuff. Bear in mind, they never were infected with an overdose of political correctness so they have stuck to their beliefs as intact credos. Barry has said too many Humanistic things which he can’t slip past them. Additionally, this is one group which he cannot use double-talk to placate.
Example: His envoy in Canada telling them NAFTA stuff was just words will not translate to the Evangelicals perspective.
He lost them when he opposed the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. Hillary Clinton supported it.
Valid point! That cannot sit well at all.
This is insane and scary. I KNOW a lot of Dems would not admit it because they support this kook so emphatically, but something like this on any normal given day would anger the h’ll out of them. It angers me beyond words that he’d go this route but then again everything about this guy either scares me or angers me.
Someone above posted their disdain for the obie-one. I understand completely. I loathe him with my every breath.
I have loathed him since the first time I heard him speak. My loathing for him was on equal par to my loathing of bush the first time I heard him laugh.
And now a refreshing pause that we haven’t had in weeks. The sound of level headed intelligence:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07u6uffKvpA&border=1&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&hl=en]
Bah humbug. Couldn’t embed a Youtube.
Here is the link, just replace COLON and DOT with the real thing.
Well worth the effort:
httpCOLON//wwwDOTyoutubeDOTcom/watch?v=07u6uffKvpA&eurl=http://hillbuzz.blogspotDOTcom/
The correct link is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07u6uffKvpA&border=1&color1=0%D72b405b&color2=0%D76b8ab6&hl=en
Thank you for this. Thank you so very much. Fabulous!
Never saw her more REAL than right there.
What have we wrought? This is the person we need and how stupid to let her go and end up with a straw man. I am so angry with the DNC. They sold us all out.
She is so kick a*s! Can’t believe they selected such a jellyfish, when we have such a fierce advocate available. It’s such a waste.
That’s our girl. That is a painful reminder, eh?
Dammit all. Here come those tears again.
Tell me to get over it, no way, no how.
I want change, the kind that Hillary delivers.
No, I will never get over it.
btw - in North East PA there were two letters to the editor yesterday highly critical of ob regarding live birth abortions. Everyday there are critical letters, radio and local TV shows with the sole purpose of outting ob for the sham he is.
The locals are never going to get over it.
Clinton country is already strong McCain country.
Little solace for what could have been had this crook and liar not appeared on the national scene, but nevertheless some comfort.
I am glad to hear about the editorials. I can’t even think of a word for Obama anymore- pandering is too weak. Flip-flop and shift-shaft don’t cut it. On Father’s Day he preached to young men that fatherhood begins at conception. But then voted that life doesn’t even begin after birth when he was instrumental in the defeat of the Defense of Life Birth Protection Act! His word doesn’t match his actions. The Holy-Rollers will expose him.
This “unity” candidate is managing to unite everyone in disgust against him. He’s not fooling the pro-life religious right and he’s alienating everybody else that wants a strong separation between church and state.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
Well then, throw some of your tax dollars my way.
Too much loft on that one HARP… it cleared him by inches.
LOL
Obama is trying to buy this election with our money!!Every time he talks to a group he offers them our tax dollars. This man has to be stopped.
Oh, now, now, tampagurl, he refused to take public financing.
that’s pocket change compared to the Federal treasure chest he’s trying to get his hands on.
I can certainly see why. The dollar i donated when I got my drivers licence is the quid and I want my pro quo. I wonder what’s happened to that money? No one ever uses it?
Before I wanted to join Puma because I was so proud of you. but I am a con. but puma was made for you. I am going to find a group from the right to hit Obama.
We all Americans right or left. we have to wake up people from the MLM
GOD BLESS AMERICA
blankscreenobama, we have the same goal which is to keep BO from becoming POTUS. I don’t know why you keep telling us you’re a con, what does that mean exactly? I say on the internet you can be anything you want to be. Sometimes I’m the Queen of England
Hi Liz
Hi HARP
Your Majesty…
We didn’t see your tiara..
Welcome
GOD BLESS AMERICA?
NO! NO! NO!
I SAY GOD DAMN AMERICA!
See–Obama HAS united Dems & Republicans:
AGAINST HIM!
LARRY
This is one of my favorite blogs and one of very few who did not jump on the bandwagon of MR WAFFLES..
I do have a idea or suggestion …
1.OPEN THREAD (sometimes or twice a day )
2.SHARING A PAST STORY OF HILLARY (u know something -she did or bill did ,OR some great utube viseos)
3.BLOG ON SOME OTHER THINGS TOO —-like have everyone comment on gas prices,share housing stories ,or ur own personal experiences )
and ofcourse –u r keeping all of us informed on MR EMPTY SUIT.
I have a wonderful idea for ya Larry. A manisfesto on anarchy and chaos at the Democratic Convention along with instructions sent to delegates.
If God needs money, he can go get another job, or at least he could do better at the job he has. This planet is a mess.
Obama is willing to promise anything to anyone if they’ll vote for him but what is most horrifying is the amount he’ll funnel to BLT…or to his Muslim friends/cousin in Kenya. He is 100% corrupt.
1. WHO is Obama?
He is a empty suit,sexist,racist,opportunist,liar,snob,arrogant ,elitist,phony,and same old politician
2. WHO is his real BASE?
Frauds,lawyers.lobbists,barely 18-19 yr olds kid .people with jedi effect and people who believe “obama or die“and people who vote based on color rather whats best for our country.
and, perhaps most importantly,
3. HOW will we be able to tell?
The whole world knows but most are color blinded -meaning all they see is thier color ,some are -stuck in past slavery guilty,some are too dumb to know,some actually like the idea of having a stupid as in oval office so they can push thier agenda,some are just under jedi effectand on koolaid ,and some just get tingles in thier legs and forget to report the truth .
I agree with the “stupid” in the oval office. I agree because it has gotten us where we are in the last 8 years. Oh well, what the heck, let’s give it a try again!!
Well? Where are all of the trolls? I bet they’re too mortified to type. I’d like to see them justify this.
This is not the pandering I knew.
they r paid $7/hr
and thier shift ended or may be they r giving report to the new shift bloggers …
It is night, night time. They were read their fairytale in the last blog and are off to visions of magical thinking in their heads.
he has used race to win primaries
he has trashed clintons.
he has divided the dems.
he has insulted women“sweetie“
he has showed us “what arrogant means=obama“
he has told us true meanings of SNOB,ELITIST,S*XIST,RACIST,SAME OLD POLITCIAN with brand new copied speeches
he has shown us that its okay to copy speeches
he has shown us “how to flip flop effectively
he has shown us “how to make MSM his pet and keep them in his pocket `where his phone vibrates
ha has shown us “why some americans r bitter “
he has shown us what `a typical white person looks like
he has shown us his greatest racist ever priests and friends
he has shown us ——NO MORALS,NO VALUES,NO PRINCIPLES,NO CHARACTER,NO CLASS……
Obama will send your tax dollars to churches, but no money will be going to the Bible Belt.
Here is the Religious Organization that Obama will send your tax dollars to.
http://www.news8.net/news/stories/0608/528950.html
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/391680.aspx
And of course Obama will not turn his back on the institution that spawned him. “I um, don’t umm think there is ummm anything particularly ummmm controversial about my ummmm church”
http://www.tucc.org
FYI:
Trinity (TUCC) has received over $15,000,000 in federal grants over the past fifteen years - according to a FOX News story of a few weeks ago.
Here’s a reference to the story:
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/06/02/fox-news-wright-trinity-received-15m-in-taxpayer-money-from-gddamn-america/
The taxes to TUCC didn’t end in 2001. I don’t have a link handy, but last time I checked into the faith-based office of wasting your money, TUCC and assorted versions of it where listed as recipients in 2003, the last year I could find info on.
We can officially state that this candidate is DANGEROUS now.
We’ve been saying it from the start. And he’s delivering — in abundance.
Amen!
I’m not for it or against it. I just want to be president. - Backtrack Obama.
That is a promotion from his days in Illinois where he was just “Present”.
Obama made a huge stategic mistake by going goo goo for Faith Based initiatives. His FAITH and CHURCH are the two biggest drags on his candidacy, and he just put them on stage with multiple spotlights.
I can’t wait to see the Repubs play that over and over, showing your tax dollars flowing to TUCC, Jeremiah Wright, and Lois Farrakhan so he can “rehabilitate” criminals.
Oh yeah every voter, especially EVANGELICALS are going to love O’boy for that… NOT.
Unbelievable! The Wall Street Journal says that Obama is running for Bush’s third term!
http://dakiniland.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/send-in-the-greyhound-fleet-wsj-obama-is-bushs-third-term/
How much more proof do we need that this guy is an opportunist extraordinaire with NO moral grounding?
Good article Dankinikat. Next week you will be able to add another instalment.
Barack Hussien Obama should change his name to
Oh thank god, they woke up from their slumber of sugar plums in their heads.
When Obama said the Democrats would no longer take lobbyist money, the DCCC ignored him. The DNC itself is using lobbyist money to pay for its convention in total defiance of Barack Obama’s orders.
Therefore, in this case, we are left with only two conclusions. Either this effort to diminish John McCain’s service in the military is an intentional, willful strategy of the Obama campaign using surrogates while purportedly giving Obama plausible deniability, or Obama cannot tell them to stop because he is too weak and ineffectual for anyone in his party to take him seriously enough to listen to him.
The first is a disgusting trait of his character that should give one pause if they wish to vote for him. It is also, given what we already know about Obama, the most likely conclusion.
The second is a sign that in office, Obama would be a figurehead unable to stop or influence the leftists he would no doubt bring into office with him. The claims of moderate policy he wants would be ignored in favor of the radical advancement of liberalism his core supporters demand.
A pot to piss in …yup that is Obama.
When you define yourself as a “blank slate upon which people project” other people will use you like a “rented mule”.