Hillfans not voting for BO, base-running, and education questions
By LisaB on July 5, 2008 at 1:50 PM in ABC News, Annenberg Chicago Challenge, Barack Obama, Bill Ayers, Bill Clinton, CNN, Current Affairs, Death Penalty, Democrats, Education, Education Debt, Electoral College, Gun Control
1) Over at the Guardian is an interesting two-part piece (part one here and part two here ) about how old, debunked and just plain vicious right-wing rumors and lies about HRC and BC are recycled by today’s “progressive wing” of the Democratic Party. Why this should be so is not explained (and is there any acceptable explanation?).
It’s worth the read. Part one starts out like this:
In 1998, as six years of a national campaign to demonize First Lady Hillary Clinton — funded by conservatives and rooted in profound anti-feminism — was reaching a fevered crescendo, then-conservative David Brock (now of Media Matters) penned a book called The Seduction of Hillary Rodham. The publisher’s note for the tome says of its subject: “No public figure in contemporary life has elicited more polarized reactions than Hillary Rodham Clinton. The first presidential spouse who pursued a major policymaking role, the beleaguered first lady has been a heroine and role model to her feminist allies - and a malevolent, power-mad shrew to her conservative foes.”
Sometime in the last decade, her liberal foes evidently decided that whole “malevolent, power-mad shrew” thing sounded pretty good, too.
Throughout the course of the Democratic primary, it was neatly repackaged as “wildly ambitious person who will do anything in her voracious quest to win including destroying the Democratic Party while cackling monstrously and whose womanness totally doesn’t matter we swear.” The classic misogynist charge once used against Clinton by the vast right-wing conspiracy became the rallying cry of large swaths of the erstwhile reality-based community.
Without a hint of irony.
Read the rest ->
Part two starts out like this:
It was an indication of how thoroughly the left co-opted the use of the GOP and media-created scandals, to smear Hillary Clinton during the presidential primaries, that the Republicans weren’t even mentioning them much anymore, content to let the Left do its dirty work. There was little reason for GOP operatives to get their hands dirty reviving the villainous First Lady Macbeth caricature, when many liberals were happy to do it for them.
Not content to merely destroy the entire Democratic party single-handedly, Hillary Clinton was hell-bent on murder. Evidently having failed to satiate her bloodlust after murdering Vince Foster - or such was the claim of her ideological enemies, a charge still being chanted like a demonic incantation by rightwing pain-maker Rush Limbaugh - now she was openly lusting for the assassination of her opponent, Barack Obama. (That is not to suggest there were no legitimate concerns about her statement.) And Randi Rhodes - a “progressive talk radio personality” - fresh from calling Clinton a “fucking whore,” fanned the same flames when she announced fearing for her life after delivering the insult to someone who routinely has her enemies whacked.
Give this a read. Although stomach-churning, it calls out the that orange place and Randi Rhodes for their smears. And it’s not a bad thing to remember why we’re still fighting for HRC.
2) This morning, CNN has a story about Clinton supporters not going for Obama. According to a poll, fewer Clinton supporters say they will vote for Obama than a month ago. (See also: “Obama Fails to Attract Hillary’s Supporters.”)
According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll released Friday, the number of Clinton supporters who plan to defect to Republican Sen. John McCain’s camp is down from one month ago, but — in what could be an ominous sign for Obama as he seeks to unify the party — the number of them who say they plan to vote for Obama is also down, and a growing number say they may not vote at all.
In a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey completed in early June before the New York senator ended her White House bid, 60 percent of Clinton backers polled said they planned on voting for Obama. In the latest poll, that number has dropped to 54 percent.
In early June, 22 percent of Clinton supporters polled said they would not vote at all if Obama were the party’s nominee, now close to a third say they will stay home.
Looks like PUMA and Obama’s many position switches may have had an effect here. Unfortunately, CNN still ascribes this unwillingness to vote for Obama to sour grapes rather than for any principles or ideas about leadership.
“These things always take time to heal,” said Bill Schneider, CNN senior political analyst. “I think Clinton’s supporters are waiting to see if Sen. Obama will pick her as vice president. That would certainly be very healing to them.”
———————————
“If he doesn’t pick her, a later stage of grief is depression and then acceptance,” Schneider said. “In the end I expect Clinton supporters will accept Obama, because they will listen to Sen. Clinton, who has said the stakes are too high for Democrats to sulk.”
Then the article slinks down to talking about how Bill Clinton needs to “repair” his image. Blech. CNN would have spent their time better to figure out exactly what the voters’ objections to Obama really are.
But I guess it’s a step up from saying it’s just a racist plot against Obama, right??? Racists, sore losers, bitter old white women and, later, just bitter white people. And the ideas that we need to just “get over it” and “come home.”
Yeah, yeah, we know. The beatings will continue until morale improves. Yada, yada, yada.
3) Over at Redstate, conservatives ponder Obama’s position(s) on abortion and figure he might not be so bad after all. Of course, they also recognize you can’t tell where he really stands. Hey, Redstate, we can’t tell either!
4) ABCnews blogger Greenburg finds it interesting that Obama has supported the gun ban reversal and death penalty decisions from SCOTUS. In particular, Obama’s position on the abortion question (saying mental distress is not a reason) is one held previously only by Justices Thomas and Scalia. Not the usual playground buddies for a Democrat.
“. . . McCain and . . . Obama praised the conservative’s position [on the DC gun ban]. The same thing happened the day before in another sharply divided 5-4 case over whether states can execute people who rape, but do not kill, children. This time conservatives lost, but again McCain and obama were on the same side, blasting the liberals’ decision striking down laws that allowed the death penalty for child rape.
“But on two of the biggest social controversies to reach the Court this year, Obama, too, [like McCain] sided with conservatives — rejecting opinions by the liberal justices who, presumably, are of the kind he would appoint if elected President.
But that’s nothing compared to Obama’s most recent comments about the most controversial social issue of them all: abortion.
————. . . there’s no mistaking that Obama says he no longer will support what’s long been a cornerstone of the abortion rights debate: The Court’s insistence that laws banning abortions after the fetus is viable (now about 22 weeks) contain an exception to allow doctors to perform them if necessary to protect a pregnant woman’s mental health.”
Greenburg notes that Obama’s current position is in opposition to the current law of the land on this issue. She notes as well that his current position contradicts earlier legislation co-sponsored by Obama himself.
“The Freedom of Choice Act specifically allows abortions after viability where necessary to sprotect a woman’s health, and the legislation refers repeatedly to the guarantees of Roe and Doe, which protect the right to an abortion where necessary for a woman’s physical and mental health.
One of its co-sponsors? Barack Obama.
5) At fivethirtyeight.com there’s an article from June 26 about which candidate, Obama or McCain, has a problem with his base. The answer is both of them.
We’ve long assumed this about McCain, but this is a change for Obama. It may even be stronger now. We’ll just have to see. Perhaps the more interesting question now is whether or not the Obama campaign cares if its most enthusiastic base is fully behind him. Judging by his recent moves, I’d say no.
6) At therealbarackobama, Steve Diamond writes that the American Federation of Teachers is defending Obama and his education advisor Linda Darling-Hammond and suggests the AFT doesn’t want Obama and Darling-Hammond’s close relationship to Bill Ayers to get much attention. Both the AFT and National Education Association will endorse Obama.
Diamond wrote about the relationship between Obama, Darling-Hammond and Ayers before.
When I pointed out at the Edwize Blog sponsored by the United Federation of Teachers, the big New York division of the AFL-CIO affiliated AFT, that Darling-Hammond backs the same key policy proposal (repayment of centuries of “education debt” to people of color) as Bill Ayers, long time education advocate and co-worker of Obama, and that Ayers and Obama are far from being “casual acquaintances” as Leo Casey of the AFT had contended, Casey replied with the following false claims . . .
Diamond outlines Casey’s counterclaims and then states his position on those. While all this is a little “weedy” for those not involved in education, it is noteworthy that Diamond’s ends his post with the following:
While no one could, or should, impute to Obama any support for the terroristic activity of Ayers, Dohrn and others, there is an important connection between Ayers’ politics then and his approach to education policy today: Ayers and the Weather Underground promoted a politics built around the absurd idea of “white supremacy,” which Ayers calls even today the “monster in the room” at the heart of American life.
This was linked to another idea that was widely held among the maoist elements that took hold in the early 70s in the US: that American workers and their unions were part of a giant labor aristocracy that exploited workers of the south, the so-called Third World. Inside the US, the Weather Underground argued that a global form of “unequal exchange” was reproduced in the relationship between white and black workers.
Thus, when an idea like repayment of centuries of accumulated “education debt” is proposed as the top priority of the next federal government as it has been by Darling-Hammond, Ladson-Billings and Bill Ayers, all of whom have links to Obama, it is reasonable to ask what Obama’s view are on such a critical issue. The presumptive nominee has yet to explain how it is that his education advisor can promote such an idea and yet he remains silent on it.
I would think the members of America’s teachers’ unions would like to know the answers to such questions as well before they decide how to approach the upcoming elections.
I’ve heard from teachers for a long time now that “there are NO stupid questions, only the ones you don’t ask.” Well, how about asking a few? Of course, even if Obama promised the unions he wouldn’t significantly change education policies they advocate, why should they believe him?
After all, the Obama bus has a lot of blue meat under it already. Of course, teachers’ unions aren’t favorites of a lot of “middle America,” so there may simply be a collective yawn when the unions find themselves at odds with Obama later. Because, you know, all the truly progressive educated people loooooovvvveee Obama. And they make more money than teachers.
(small, medium and large sizes; for both dogs and cats)
+ 
Yes, Bill does need to repair his image.
Best way? No bullshit….keep telling it like it is!
Go, Big Dog!
If the media, the right wing, and the progressive blogs all hated your guts, you’d have an image problem too.
Meet Michelle Obama:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5Dnj_2capU
Bill Clinton needs to repair his image??? Why would you fix something that isn’t broke?
–Highest approval rating of any exiting president in our nation’s history, even in the midst of kangaroo court impeachment and scandal.
–the greatest 8 years of our generation for the working class
– intellect, charisma, no need for teleprompters, encyclopedic knowledge of U.S. and global policies
– etc., etc., etc.,
fix what? CNN, the shills of the kool-aid generation
THE END OF OBAMA HERE AT LAST
Who will roll on Obama first? I have a clue. Will it be Rezko? I don’t think so.
So what is to come? Will the indictments surface before the August Convention? Or perhaps the Republicans will use this tactic as the Big Oct surprise? Will we ever know the truth?
I have a quote from a source that implies Obama is in deep with Rezko and maybe future indictments with other Chicago Politicians.
http://hillaryloyalistnowformccain.com/theendofobamahereatlast.aspx
The big dawg should keep telling Obama to KISS MY ASS. Problem is Obama might yech
ron paul isn’t going away:
http://thevote.abc13.com/2008/07/the-revolutio-1.html
should he?
I think most of his fans have gone back to their basements.
Ron Paul is pretty old also. I liked some of the stuff he spout but he is way to extreme on gays and a few other issues that turned me off. He’s kind of like Kucinich at the other end-says a lot of stuff we all want to hear and fix but just not appealing to mainstream. The size of a man (height)does seem to go against them.
LOL
Funny how we have to go to offshore media to get to the truth. Today Pravda and Tass have nothing on American print and broadcast media.
Well written article. Thank you. On Point No. 4, I believe much of his flip-flopping is due to the fact that Obama didn’t write the legislation in the first place so he doesn’t know what it is he supposedly put out earlier. It was taken from those who actually had worked and put the legislation together as a gift to Obama to beef up his portfolio.
JP49 - that’s very interesting. Please expand on the last sentence. Do you have any references to articles on that? I know that his portfolio was beefed up when he was in the Illinois Senate (bills that others had worked on for decades were passed off as his during his last year in the Ill. Senate, when it finally became Democratic controlled, in order to make him a more acttractive US Senate Candidate). I wasn’t aware of similar activity in the US Senate (though I am by no means surprised).
November 5, 2004….(the day after the election–note that Hillary is not mentioned as part of the official strategy–that extra office space rented for Obama for America in Chicago was a given, the DNC move to Chicago happened as soon as Hillary could be forced out). Here we go:
An analysis of how to win in 2008, written by Donnal Brazile, the day after the 2004 election. It’s all about the Obama factor, Hillary isn’t mentioned.
http://www.slate.com/id/2109328
…excerpt…
This is a new moment to identify and recruit better messengers. Perhaps it’s time to tap into the “Obama” factor: Scour statehouses for young, energetic, inspiring, and emerging leaders with the ability to connect the head and heart. Too many of the old Democratic guard have stayed in Washington, D.C., too long to fully recognize how most Americans live their lives. I admit that I’m also guilty of being a little out of step with some of my family members. But I can play a mean catch-up when I visit my red home state or when they visit me here in my blue colony of Washington, D.C. (Yes, we are still fighting for statehood and voting rights.)
Yes their plan is to vote in all lazy AA’s and to take over. I’m not racist. Their plan is racist.
My personal favorite from Donna:
You see, despite our personal differences on matters of faith and religion, we believe that in order to be good disciples of Jesus, you have to not only know his words but also perform his deeds. That is where we draw the line with those who spend hours and hours in church, only to come out and hate everyone around them.
Hmmm…sounds like Obama’s church…uh…I mean ex-church. I do believe that Donna was referring to the churches that Republicans attend though. She needs to go back and read her own article with Trinity in mind.
zimeeisme Funny how these Obama people talk religion and then cheat and lie like mad. Jesus would not approve of stolen elections.
The NEA and AFT should just vote “present.”
I am so ashamed of the Dems, especially those ‘progressives’ at the evil orange and the DNC thieves and the filthy repugs that smeared the Clintons to no end..The depth of the disgust is beyond the pale.
Nobama
NoMcain
If Hillary doesn’t get voted in at the convention..
Go Nader
roseeriter — If you want to revolt — Give up Nader. What has this man done for this country except come out every 4 years and run for President. He collects a nice piece of change in the bargain. Nader cost us 2000–
IT’S A good thing many of Barack Obama’s supporters don’t care much about issues, because their candidate has been changing his position on them with dizzying speed`
Dominic Lawson, writing in the left-wing British newspaper the Independent on Tuesday, described Mr. Obama as “the master of the U-turn.”
Some Obama supporters are experiencing buyer’s remorse, Mr. Lawson said, but most think “Obama doesn’t believe any of the things he is now saying to woo the ‘redneck states.’
“To this group we must address a simple question,” Mr. Lawson said. “How do you know what Obama really believes in?”
Fred — the only thing Obama believes in is winning. He doesn’t stand for anything. He changes position like most of us change underwear. The only people he is loyal to are those who hate this country and its people. 20 years and he couldn’t leave that church — FISA and Abortion — no problem. Obama wants control–cause he wants to pay us back for his rotten childhood.
Thanks CB for the Salon article about Brazille. So she is the Washington insider that Obama hates so much. What a fraud. All those months of being an “undeclared delegate” while spewing Obama talking points whenever anyone would let her get away with it. I wrote to Al Gore and asked him about it. No answer of course. But, at least she did promise to leave the party if Superdelegates decided the nominee. I heard her say it on CNN. I also heard her say on CNN that the DNC had a new coalition of the “young and inner city”, others need not apply.
I am a teacher and know many teachers who will never support BO. BO is a loser for the children of this country, after all didn’t he once call them a punishment? Maybe that’s what his mother made him feel like when she abandoned him… I was watching his story on CNN, and was thinking how could a mom just dump him off in Hawaii with his grandparents and then his half sister say their mom raised them right? I don’t get it, no wonder BO doesn’t know right from wrong. He is a very confused person, now I kinda feel sorry for him. All the more reason this guy is not qualified to be President, he needs some psychological therapy first.
Bingo Anee! I’m not sure there will be prizes.
Hopefully, more and more people will realise this too.
Well said! I have my AFT/NEA laminated card which endorses Hillary, and I am not about to believe Nobama comes close to meeting these qualifications. AFT/NEA can change their minds all they want, I am an educator also…and I agree Barrack had an interesting childhood, but that doesn’t mean he is qualified to be POTUS.
This is and should remain a central focal point for PUMAS and for McCain. I urge this talking point to remain in the forefront on a daily basis until November.
As for Big Dawg-keep speaking the truth..they cry that he looks like a fool but don’t believe them.
We love an honest person who has the guts to speak out. It’s so rare these days.
Telling big dawg he needs to repair his image is like telling big dog to shut up. That’s all it means.
Anyone who speaks out about the truth gets shut up.
Calling all PUMAS!!!!
You’ve seen those little pink panthers with suction cups that stick to windows. So here’s the idea … BUY YOURSELF a FEW! Put them on your car. Drive around with your daily NO OBAMA message and make sure you let them know… it’s a PUMA action!!! I’ve found them cheap and easy-ordering on the web.
http://dakiniland.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/calling-all-pumas-put-the-visuals-out-there-for-all-to-see/
They didn’t want Hillary because she would help repair middle America and they do not want that to happen..we are overrun by big corporations and BoBo is the stooge.
That’s one reason.
If Obama is the nominee of the DNC he will lose the general election. We need Hillary and will not settle for less. Hillary supporters lets unite and give the fight!
Reading dkos and the hp shows buyers remorse.
The convention should be fun.
“I’ve heard from teachers for a long time now that “there are NO stupid questions, only the ones you don’t ask.”
Or as Omabamabots say,
“There are no stupid questions,
only stupid people who ask them!
There are no good questions for Obama at all. There are just rallies, money, adulation, and votes.
That’s all people are good for. Otherwise, Just Shut Up.
BREAKING NEWS!
anonymous — I just went to view that ad. There was another vicious ad which appeared first. The ad was pro-Obama but disgusting in it nature. Then the ad you spoke of by the Black Republicans played — this was an honest ad. The Obama people will do anything.
Flip-Flop
He believes in being a chameleon.
He believes in being all things to all people all of the time.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sQX7Awjui40
I’m thinking it really doesn’t matter what he says - his actions speak louder than any words - 20 years listening and suppoting Jeremiah Wright, friends with Fr.Pfleger, Farakhan Meeks and Rezko and Ayers. He “Lost me at Hello” this is my pastor and mentor Rev. Wright.
I agree with you except to Oblahma and his crazed supporters its the opposite, only words matter.
Yup, actions do speak louder than words.
He made his own daughter’s sit through how many years of Trinity Church sermons?
And where is the good Reverend Wright these days? The Repubs and the PUMA’s can’t get enough!
The only problem I saw with Bubba was that no one factored into his schedule or agenda that he had undergone serious thoracic surgery, including general anaethesis.
My father, 25 years ago, and I more recently had similar operations. One side effect is that one has a short fuse for a time afterwards - a year for me - and there is less than the normal ability to suffer fools graciously.
Very little ability, normally, in my case and NONE after having my chest opened.
Many irritating events, which would have previously elicited a, “Well, THAT’s Nice!” from me for a year sparked many, many, “Fuck YOU! Fuck the horse you rode in on! Fuck your mother! And, Get the Fuck out of my sight before I kill you, you slug!!!” outbursts.
And, Dad was a REAL bear…
So Bubba having a short fuse was de rigeur for the campaign, IMHO.
“If he doesn’t pick her, a later stage of grief is depression and then acceptance,” Schneider said. “In the end I expect Clinton supporters will accept Obama, because they will listen to Sen. Clinton, who has said the stakes are too high for Democrats to sulk.”
What a complete doofus. If he wasn’t so pathetically clueless, it would be funny. I didn’t realize Mr. Schneider had a PhD in psychology AND gives lame TV commentary. It is truly amazing that these people get paid to give these idiotic opinions that are completely meaningless.
fran — the last time Schneider was right about anything Gas was 10 cents a gallon. How dare Schneider tell me what to feel? I will never vote for Obama. Hillary or McCain no other option.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it Schneider.
They all think they’re psychologists. Don’t forget Jack Cafferty’s infamous line that Hillary suffered from, “Multiple Personality Disorder”.
“The Freedom of Choice Act specifically allows abortions after viability where necessary to sprotect a woman’s health, and the legislation refers repeatedly to the guarantees of Roe and Doe, which protect the right to an abortion where necessary for a woman’s physical and mental health.
One of its co-sponsors? Barack Obama.
OMG. I really really really hope the Republicans are doing due diligence with Oppo research so they can use all these absolute contradictions in effective commercials. They will be very entertaining.
And as far as Ayers “white supremacy being at the heart of American life.” That sounds quite Rev. Wrightish doesn’t it? Anyone see a pattern here??
fran — look what Republicans did to Kerry and he was a genuine hero. They have so much information on Obama–they just have to sit back and play the videos. Like stealing candy from a baby.
The best explanation for the Hillary smears that I have encountered comes from the inimitable Lyndon LaRouche. It is a pretty simple explanation…the Anglo-Dutch oligarchy, as he terms it, want a Republican in the White House. First, they must eliminate Hillary as the Democratic candidate. Then Obama will self-destruct, I suppose that would be a few weeks before the November election because he has a long list of personal and criminal vulnerabilities. But even if that doesn’t happen, the oligarchists REALLY control Obama anyway.
This scenario makes sense to me in two respects. First, Hillary is willing to give her support to the fraud Obama. LaRouche basically claims the Anglo-Dutch oligarchy are archvillains and they must be if they are worse than Obama. Secondly, Wikipedia says that LaRouche supported President Clinton during his impeachment ordeal. That makes sense too, since one of the ring-leaders of the smears against the Clintons was an Englishman, who LaRouche describes as “City of London mouthpiece Ambrose Evans-Pritchard of the Daily Telegraph.” I remember this guy from the 90s. He was definitely sticking his English nose into American politics.
So what is the solution for the voters if all this is true?
PUMA and an independent Congress seem to be only solutions on the horizon at present.
But Al Gore may be another alternative. LaRouche really hates Gore. I don’t understand why, but I guess we can throw Gore into the mix too. I think most Democrats could go for Gore.
If there wasn’t another choice other than Obama then Schneider may have been correct about the mourning process. The mourning process has been circumvented for two reasons.
The fallout from the fixed nomination process has enraged Hillary supporters who have found a valuable tool in the internet. We are not alone and through our own netroots organizations and have found strength in numbers where before we would be alone in our grief.
The 2nd reason is that McCain is actually a good second choice. With just a little bit of modified thinking many of us can except and even thrive with the option of voting for him.
The original reasons for Obama’s candidacy are changing rapidly. Americans are once again feeling patriotic with Bush out of the way and believe that Iraq may actually lead to success.
Schneider should be reporting not on the mourning of Hillary supporters ,but on the great political realignment which is taking place in the center.
Gore? Who no longer believes in the popular vote? Gore? Who would have won by a landslide in 2000 if he didn’t throw Bill under the bus?!
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