Comments on: Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/ Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:32:38 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: james http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-443699 james Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:15:05 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-443699 Uh, hold on. I <em>don't agree</em> it's "a complete non-issue". While FISA has been around since the days of Jimmy Carter, the big issue at present is how Bush may have been using it illegally without oversight or meaningful checks and balances, and to what extent letting him get away with it will establish precendents for improper future use. Granting retroactive immunity to the telecom industry without even knowing what actions you're granting them immunity for is very disturbing. If Bush did something illegal--and granting that <em>if</em> probably requires a tremendous stretch--and private corporations were knowing accomplices, <em>they ought to be held accountable</em>. I'm not so quick to make light of government e mail and internet monitoring. There are plenty of indications that this may now be almost universal. My own assumption is that <em>all</em> activity and <em>all</em> messages are now being rerouted through NSA supercomputers for analysis and data mining. If you don't believe <em>that</em>, you haven't been paying attention. Bush has apparently issued classified presidential directives along those lines that members of congressional oversight committees don't even have access to. All that is known about them are their general topics. I guess we're just supposed to forget the law and the Constitution and just keep repeating this mantra over and over to ourselves: <strong><em>If I've done nothing wrong, I have nothing to fear.</em></strong> http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/01/feds-must-exami.html Uh, hold on. I don’t agree it’s “a complete non-issue”. While FISA has been around since the days of Jimmy Carter, the big issue at present is how Bush may have been using it illegally without oversight or meaningful checks and balances, and to what extent letting him get away with it will establish precendents for improper future use. Granting retroactive immunity to the telecom industry without even knowing what actions you’re granting them immunity for is very disturbing. If Bush did something illegal–and granting that if probably requires a tremendous stretch–and private corporations were knowing accomplices, they ought to be held accountable.

I’m not so quick to make light of government e mail and internet monitoring. There are plenty of indications that this may now be almost universal. My own assumption is that all activity and all messages are now being rerouted through NSA supercomputers for analysis and data mining. If you don’t believe that, you haven’t been paying attention. Bush has apparently issued classified presidential directives along those lines that members of congressional oversight committees don’t even have access to. All that is known about them are their general topics.

I guess we’re just supposed to forget the law and the Constitution and just keep repeating this mantra over and over to ourselves: If I’ve done nothing wrong, I have nothing to fear.

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/01/feds-must-exami.html

]]> By: “Get FISA Right”: Obama’s Supporters Protest his Vote : NO QUARTER http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-442484 “Get FISA Right”: Obama’s Supporters Protest his Vote : NO QUARTER Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:30:53 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-442484 [...] Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 [...] [...] Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 [...]

]]> By: rjj http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441777 rjj Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:03:24 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441777 I imagine is a strategic withdrawal. Give them and Obama Nation their "victory." What about having O stand in a horse drawn chariot around the field at Mile High Stadium, with a little guy behind him holding a gold laurel wreath. I can almost hear the shouts of the hundred or so remaining true believers, "Hail Obama!" It would be <em>GREAT</em> TeeVee! Could distribute the footage on DVD under the title, "Triumph of the Will[ing Suspension of Disbelief]" I imagine is a strategic withdrawal. Give them and Obama Nation their “victory.”

What about having O stand in a horse drawn chariot around the field at Mile High Stadium, with a little guy behind him holding a gold laurel wreath. I can almost hear the shouts of the hundred or so remaining true believers, “Hail Obama!”

It would be GREAT TeeVee!

Could distribute the footage on DVD under the title, “Triumph of the Will[ing Suspension of Disbelief]“

]]> By: Bob Bobolino http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441772 Bob Bobolino Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:59:19 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441772 FISA is a complete non-issue. The government has had the legal ability to monitor all foreign communications since at least 1947. Foreign communications have always been defined as a communication where at least one of the communicants is outside the U.S. or believed to be an agent of a foreign power, regardless of location. FISA works and protects our privacy. All the Hillary nut-jobs need to relax. Your e-mail's and text messages are way to pointless for the government to care about. Bye Bye Pumas. FISA is a complete non-issue. The government has had the legal ability to monitor all foreign communications since at least 1947. Foreign communications have always been defined as a communication where at least one of the communicants is outside the U.S. or believed to be an agent of a foreign power, regardless of location. FISA works and protects our privacy. All the Hillary nut-jobs need to relax. Your e-mail’s and text messages are way to pointless for the government to care about.

Bye Bye Pumas.

]]> By: Christy http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441743 Christy Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:26:40 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441743 MSNBC and CNN won't play the whole Rev. Jackson tape. All they repeat is the, "Barrack keeps talking down to Black people" part. They won't play or even say the ball cutting part. If a White person had said it, MSNBC would be playing the tape over and over. MSNBC and CNN won’t play the whole Rev. Jackson tape. All they repeat is the, “Barrack keeps talking down to Black people” part. They won’t play or even say the ball cutting part.

If a White person had said it, MSNBC would be playing the tape over and over.

]]> By: trixta http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441649 trixta Thu, 10 Jul 2008 07:25:35 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441649 But was Obama supposed to be a "different" kind of candidate--one who actually stood for democratic principles and the constitution! Wasn't he going to change the way things are done in Washington? Give me a break! But was Obama supposed to be a “different” kind of candidate–one who actually stood for democratic principles and the constitution! Wasn’t he going to change the way things are done in Washington? Give me a break!

]]> By: trixta http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441609 trixta Thu, 10 Jul 2008 07:05:39 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441609 Yes, I've been contemplating this scenario--McCain/Clinton-- for a while, especially if Obama chooses Chuck Hegel as his VP> Yes, I’ve been contemplating this scenario–McCain/Clinton– for a while, especially if Obama chooses Chuck Hegel as his VP>

]]> By: james http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441426 james Thu, 10 Jul 2008 05:05:13 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441426 Of <em>course</em> not. That would mean I would have to have known what I was saying was wrong before I said it, in which case I probably wouldn't have. The dark letters are intended to alert other Obamabots to the presence of hidden coded messages. They issue all of us secret decoder rings before they send us out into the field. Of course not. That would mean I would have to have known what I was saying was wrong before I said it, in which case I probably wouldn’t have.

The dark letters are intended to alert other Obamabots to the presence of hidden coded messages. They issue all of us secret decoder rings before they send us out into the field.

]]> By: “Get FISA Right”: Obama’s Supporters Protest his Vote « The Horizontal World http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441420 “Get FISA Right”: Obama’s Supporters Protest his Vote « The Horizontal World Thu, 10 Jul 2008 05:03:30 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441420 [...] security is amongst the New York Senator’s greatest concerns. But as she makes clear in her statement, the FISA bill goes against our constitutional rights:  Congress must vigorously check and balance [...] [...] security is amongst the New York Senator’s greatest concerns. But as she makes clear in her statement, the FISA bill goes against our constitutional rights:  Congress must vigorously check and balance [...]

]]> By: DoroB http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441415 DoroB Thu, 10 Jul 2008 05:01:04 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441415 I understand your point. I am not an idealist either, but I do like to hold a candidate accountable for what he or she says. Obama just doesn't pass that accountability test, because he does not care what his supporters think. I don't think it's as easy as making a list. How do you even know that Obama's virtues will be consistent? So far a lot he has backtracked on a lot of things. Right now it seems that the list of flip-flops will only be longer. The more important question is: How do you know you can trust him? I understand your point. I am not an idealist either, but I do like to hold a candidate accountable for what he or she says. Obama just doesn’t pass that accountability test, because he does not care what his supporters think.

I don’t think it’s as easy as making a list. How do you even know that Obama’s virtues will be consistent? So far a lot he has backtracked on a lot of things. Right now it seems that the list of flip-flops will only be longer. The more important question is: How do you know you can trust him?

]]> By: StrawberrybitesBarky http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441400 StrawberrybitesBarky Thu, 10 Jul 2008 04:54:47 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441400 Wrong again. Obama would be worse than Mccain. I'm guessing his ties to Rezco alone will give the repubicans many field days for endless photo op hearings and investigations. He'll be tied up in knots defending himself. You think Bill Clinton was hamstringed over a blowjob? Ha! And the way he pissed off a lot of other democrats, I'm guessing they won't fight too hard for him or they may even help stick the knives in. Wrong again. Obama would be worse than Mccain. I’m guessing his ties to Rezco alone will give the repubicans many field days for endless photo op hearings and investigations. He’ll be tied up in knots defending himself. You think Bill Clinton was hamstringed over a blowjob? Ha! And the way he pissed off a lot of other democrats, I’m guessing they won’t fight too hard for him or they may even help stick the knives in.

]]> By: james http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441384 james Thu, 10 Jul 2008 04:47:15 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441384 Never said that. Ever. I was a Hillary Clinton supporter as long as the Clinton campaign seemed even remotely viable. I only got behind Obama when it came down to a McCain vs. Obama decision. My greatest concern now is that the republicans might get another 4 years. My basic position is <em>Better Obama than <strong>that</strong>.</em> Never said that. Ever. I was a Hillary Clinton supporter as long as the Clinton campaign seemed even remotely viable. I only got behind Obama when it came down to a McCain vs. Obama decision. My greatest concern now is that the republicans might get another 4 years. My basic position is Better Obama than that.

]]> By: james http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441368 james Thu, 10 Jul 2008 04:40:32 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441368 I don't know... I <em>used</em> to be an idealist. Now I like to think that I'm a pragmatist, rather than a person who's simply lowered his standards. I've occasionally wondered if what people must be willing to do to <em>become</em> president might not weed out everyone actually fit to <em>be</em> president. Can anyone successfully climb that ladder, and still be morally whole when they reach the top? That's not a question we'd want to dwell on for too long, but it's probably reasonable to say that <em>all</em> candidates are likely flawed in some fashion. Most here focus on Obama's presumed flaws. I focus on his presumed virtues. When I'm not defending the guy against attack, I'll readily admit there are some things about him I <em>don't</em> like; I didn't like his vote on FISA, for example. I don't like this attitude about illegal immigration. (Or Bush's or Clinton's or McCain's, either.) But when I compare Obama's votes and policies with McCain's votes and policies, the list of what I don't like about John McCain is <em>far</em> longer. Hillary Clinton simply doen't enter into the debate for me at this point. Unfortunately. I don’t know… I used to be an idealist. Now I like to think that I’m a pragmatist, rather than a person who’s simply lowered his standards.

I’ve occasionally wondered if what people must be willing to do to become president might not weed out everyone actually fit to be president. Can anyone successfully climb that ladder, and still be morally whole when they reach the top?

That’s not a question we’d want to dwell on for too long, but it’s probably reasonable to say that all candidates are likely flawed in some fashion. Most here focus on Obama’s presumed flaws. I focus on his presumed virtues. When I’m not defending the guy against attack, I’ll readily admit there are some things about him I don’t like; I didn’t like his vote on FISA, for example. I don’t like this attitude about illegal immigration. (Or Bush’s or Clinton’s or McCain’s, either.) But when I compare Obama’s votes and policies with McCain’s votes and policies, the list of what I don’t like about John McCain is far longer.

Hillary Clinton simply doen’t enter into the debate for me at this point. Unfortunately.

]]> By: StrawberrybitesBarky http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441346 StrawberrybitesBarky Thu, 10 Jul 2008 04:26:50 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441346 Hey dickweed, so he'll do anything to get elected, that's what YOU said about Hillary. So what do you think he'll do to stay in office, do you think he'll give up all that power Bush has amassed? Hillary said she would have. You can't believe a word Barky says. Hey dickweed, so he’ll do anything to get elected, that’s what YOU said about Hillary. So what do you think he’ll do to stay in office, do you think he’ll give up all that power Bush has amassed? Hillary said she would have. You can’t believe a word Barky says.

]]> By: mimi http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441325 mimi Thu, 10 Jul 2008 04:19:21 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/09/statement-of-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-on-the-fisa-amendments-act-of-2008/#comment-441325 How do we know this is McAuliffe's idea. Maybe he was ordered to do this. Just saying.... How do we know this is McAuliffe’s idea. Maybe he was ordered to do this.

Just saying….

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