So What About You, John McCain?
By SusanUnPC on August 24, 2008 at 10:08 PM in Current Affairs
As the general election phase nears — and because this blog does not endorse either presidential candidate, and owner Larry Johnson has stated very clearly that he does not intend to support John McCain for some very important reasons — it is time to take a hard look at the Republican party’s presumptive nominee.
I was perusing ThinkProgress today, and found this important to point out — that John McCain is not the “straight shooter” that he likes to portray himself as, and has indulged in quite a bit of “flip-flopping” himself:
As Steve Benen has documented, McCain has flip-flopped at least 74 times over the years.
While some of his shifts may be an attempt to “grow” and “refine” his positions, many of his flip-flops were calculated moves to “placate the GOP right” in the course of his run for president:
TAXES: In 2001 and 2003, McCain opposed the Bush tax cuts, saying that they would “mostly benefit the wealthy.” But in 2006 he voted to extend them and now he wants to double them.
IMMIGRATION: In 2006, McCain sponsored immigration reform legislation with Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA), but in a January 2008 debate, he said that he “would not” vote for his own legislation.ROE V. WADE: In 1999, McCain told reporters that he “would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade.” In 2006, McCain expressed his unequivocal support for overturning the decision.
OFFSHORE DRILLING: In 1999, when he first ran for president, McCain supported the moratorium on offshore drilling. In June 2008, however, he called for an end to the federal ban on offshore oil drilling.
RADICAL RIGHT: In 2000, McCain declared Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell “agents of intolerance,” but in 2006 McCain said he no longer considers Falwell an “agent of intolerance.”
[...]
Read this article in full.
There is a reason that Hillary Clinton has chosen to stay with and support the Democratic ticket. She is concerned about the ramifications of another Republican presidency.
Where that leaves me come late October when my ballot arrives, I haven’t decided yet.
I have time. And, quite probably, how I vote will remain my PRIVATE SECRET. It is, after all, my right to cast my vote with the right of privacy.
What I care most about — in terms of rights — is that when 2012 rolls around, that I will be able to cast my PRIMARY VOTE in private, and not in a public caucus that is undemocratic by its very nature.
And what I also care about, come 2012, is that if this 2008 Democratic ticket loses, that I will be able to support Hillary Clinton for the presidency.
Getting back to John McCain: It is essential, before we starting shouting that we’ll vote for McCain if Hillary isn’t nominated, that we take a GOOD HARD, LONG LOOK at this man and his running mate.
Let’s preserve our options.
Let’s keep them guessing.
Let’s never say “never.” Too many people through countless millenia have rued making that statement.
Let’s remain open to possibilities.
And let’s keep our eyes on the ultimate prize.
Let’s be an example OF her FOR her.
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Short and to the point about Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cihE79CCWbA&feature=email
Hmmmmmm…..that’s kinda lame.
Articles like this one only serve to encourage people to vote for Obama so if you keep this up – you won’t get a chance to vote Hillary in 2012 – it will be OBAMA again. Thanks.
Yeah! I don’t come to no quarter to read about McCain. I come to No Quarter because I hate how Obama stole the vote with his rigged caucuses and how the Main Stream Media don’t report on it.
No Quarter is an oasis of news reporting on Obama that doesn’t exist anywhere else. Surely there enough Obama material to report on.
Stop listening to the Obamabots emailing you telling you that you are just a Republican website now.. because you’re not.. you’re Pro-Democratic… the Democracy that no longer exists in the Democratic party!
Let’s make sure Barry doesn’t win!
I do not have a huge problem with candidates flip-flopping on some things because they cannot get through the primaries any other way. I am actually heartened by the fact that McCain originally opposed Bush’s tax cuts. But what can we expect politicians to do? Always stand on principle then go down in flames? Of course if our idiot media ever bothered to do their jobs, there would be very few people bamboozled by lies like “tax cuts pay for themselves” (they NEVER do). Of course, there is always the risk that a politician will stick to these positions even though they don’t really believe in them so that they can get reelected. McCain is hopefully independent enough that once in office he would start representing all of the people, not just his base, but who knows? (In fact he may figure on just one term which would really free him up, but he can’t say that publicly or he’ll be a “lame duck”.) The good think about the tax cuts is that there will be even more Dems in Congress so he won’t be able to get that passed anyway.
What I think is important to know about McCain is if he is another neocon. I know he was an early Chalabi supporter – very disturbing. Was his belligerant response to Russia just posturing for his base, posturing to put Putin on notice, or dces he really want a return to the Cold War? If so he can do this without Congressional approval. I know the Pentagon respects him (and Hillary) and they were not happy with Bush’s recklessness, which makes me think he is not an ideologue, but some of positions really make me wonder.\
Does anyone have any info about this that is not just spin?
There is a difference on rethinking and changing your mind for the times and benefit of the people, as far as offshore drilling goes, gas wasnt the threat it has become today..dear, as far as woe v wade use birthcontrol, instead of murder than you wont have to use that as an excuse, funny how the treehuggers are all first in line to protest war against alquaida, beheaders, rapists and tortures but give no rights to a baby who cannot yet speak, but breathes feels pain, has no problem killing.
And we do not need a adultering druggy, who is in bed with our enemies at any given moment, oh and did i forget to mention, he plans for you to pay up the ying yang for slavery,,get ready to write your checks to rev wright,,care of trinity church, and global poverty will take up any extra funds they save in letting terrorism run rampid..enjoy hell on earth while you can, vote obama if you want that change!
Adultering druggy? Killing babies? The nut jobs on this site who resort to such lame statements amuse me. How about we stick to the issues? Yeah I forgot Obama is a muslim terrorist. LOL
I agree with Ai!een…stop fueling the fire. I have never been disappointed with an article at NQ…until now. The only thing you are doing is giving the Obamabots ammunition. Why on earth would you want to point out all of McCain’s flip flops for the Obama campaign to see when you know his paid bloggers are scamming every single pro Hillary site? This is cutting off your nose to spite your face…not very smart.
I supported Hillary and it pains me to see her in the role to which she has been delegated. I WILL vote McCain regardless of how many flip flops he has made because the alternative to a McCain administration would be devastating.
McCain is like the walking dead. Too old. Obama is like slick Rick. Great choice. I don’t worry about 2012. Let’s deal with the here and now.
So, where should we go folks?
We aren’t going to be welcome much longer, so who knows of a place?
Suggestions please.
Uppity Woman’s site?
Perfect!! Two thumbs up!! Great idea.
Here’s that Uppity Woman link:
http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com/
I’ll just go on over to that site because now it seems they’re flip-flopping over to Obama’s side. After all that dirt digging on Obama, they’ve decided they would like to wallow in the dirt with him.
Go do something that matters. Instead of complaining and spending all your time here. My spouse spends 10 hours a day or more on this site. What a joke. I used to like the articles Larry would post that really had something to say about our security and what was happening. All it is now is a bunch of people complaining. It is over. All I keep hearing is Obama is done. When? I won’t vote for either loser. They are both the typical politician. Liars that will say anything to get elected.
Get off the fence, Larry and Susan. If you don’t want Obama as President, follow the advice of John McCain’s mother. Hold your nose and vote for her son.
No problem here. I’d vote for a cockroach before I would vote for Obama.
Me too.
AS well here.
Exactly! John McCain was NOT my first choice but now that it has come down between B. Hussein and Mac, there’s no contest. B. Hussein will be a disaster for this country.
I agree. America before party.
I would have sex with a cockroack and snort rat poison in the back of a Yugo before I would ever vote for Obama after all I have learned about him.
I propose we start a New Coalition
Lets call it PU?FU! – Party Unity? F*ck You!
Why not call it “Republicans”. It’s a bit clearer.
Ted.
Go choke on Obama’s aka George W Bush II’s Pretzel.
I’m HEADING to your SITE for the FIRST time!!!!! I truly HOPE this SITE(NQ), isn’t about to BECAME Tayolr Marsh 2.0!!!!! JUST SAYIN!!!!
Uppity Woman SITE!!!!
Agreed.
Sorry.
I have to agree here. There is simply too much at stake.
Riding the fence is going to make this site feel schizofrenic.
You can’t play both sides of the issue now. Not after how hard we battled for hillary.
Hillary has no choice. She has dedicated her life to working in the system to make it work better for her fellow citizens. She is now doing what she has no choice but to do. Would you have her sacrifice herself politically to make a point at this stage when you know the rest of the lemmings refuse to stop? Or would you have her live to fight another day?
But us? we are not politicians, we are ordinary americans.
And we DO own our votes.
For us to take a stand and fight for what we believe in or fight against what we dont costs us very little in comparison.
Frankly, if i want to read about how babies are sacrificed in the basement of all 7 of McCains mansions i can go to Daily Kos or Huffington Post to get that, and pandering to coverage of negative John McCain stories here will draw that type of troll and those types of stories even more.
We have enough of a troll problem already.
This is where i come to hang out with other intelligent whitty (not whitey) non-pod people of free mind who were strongly for Hillary and are still highly offended by how she was treated and are truly horrified (not through ignorance of but because we have learned so much about) at the prospect of an obama presidency.
I can get my John McCain is evil at plenty of other sites.
I can understand that you are concerned that the site might become less relevant now that hillary is nearly out of the race, so by attacking both McCain and Obama you can keep it in the mix, but i am not sure thats a wise decision.
First the Trolling and hostility on the threads will sky rocket. What is considered a great poster on one thread would qualify as a total troll on another…there goes the neighborhood.
Secondly, Playing the devils advocate on both sides of the fence in this most crucial presidential election implies there is truly no (god i hate to use this word after how meaningless Obama has made it) hope for us as americans this cycle.
Draw the battle line and choose your side.
If Not Hillary then who?
You can not in good faith vote Present.
Not after all we have discovered about Obama here.
Not after all that has been done by the corrupt in the DNC.
Not after all we know.
To vote Present now, Larry and Susan, is to pull an Obama.
we are ordinary americans
I differ with you Jeremiah God Damn Amerikkka Wright, those who supported Senator Clinton and are being shown the true measure of all thing Obama are not “ordinary”. To a person, Slim Shady would be proud… Time to clean out the closet.
I saw that CNN had a caption referring to BoBiden as the “Dynamic Duo”. Better call ahead to Gotham City and alert them.
I say make it an ANYBODY BUT BARACK franchise that supports the election of downticket DEMS.
That doesn’t mean you have to support McCain for the Presidency, either.
There ARE other candidates running…and there’s always that write-in option.
If we roll over and play dead, they’ll never appreciate how pissed we are. They’ll believe–and RIGHTLY–that we can be bullied.
I will not be bullied. I will not be !threatened. I will not be cowed.
Obama can kiss my ass. He does NOT get my vote.
That Democratic Congress had better get up off their well-fed behinds and GET TO WORK. Earn that fat paycheck–those enabling bastards are half the problem!!!
What is this? I am on No Quarter right? You just can’t do this and it really doesn’t make any sense. After months of being a pro-Hillary/anti-Obama site (and it’s ok to not be for Obama no matter what he tells you)you start doing this switch? It’s like you got sick of playground trolls calling you a Republican site. We know this isn’t a Republican site. You know this isn’t a Republican site. So, who cares what everyone else thinks? I am so sick of the media’s love affair with Barack Obama and their bashing of John McCain. I come to No Quarter to get away from all that. I know John McCain. He’s been in the public eye for a very long time. I thought the whole point of No Quarter was to vet a candidate that wasn’t being vetted and remains largely a secret(BO)which is a very dangerous thing in regards to the presidency.
I’m voting for John McCain in November. Not because I’m a Republican, but because Barack Obama and the DNC have decided to take my vote away from me. They don’t care what I think, as a voter, and I’m going to return the favor. This is not meant to be ‘The Communist States of America.’ McCain 2008, Hillary 2012.
Just to clarify, I originally came to NQ because of the constant bashing of Hillary by the media. NQ was and still is my morning cup of coffee. In the famous words of Billy Joel, “Don’t go changin’ to try to please them. We love you just the way you are.”
I concur. One of the reasons I am an ex-democrat is because the party ignored its base. I was a democrat for 32 years, I voted for a Democrat each time. But not this year. Henceforth I will vote the person and not the party. And any politician representing me had better toe the line. Down-ticket politicians who support this provocateur are part of the problem. The solution is to force them to find a different line of work–like selling used cars.
To support Oblahblah now is to support the questionable ethical conduct at work behind his nomination.
We are the employers, not the employed.
I’m with all of you, I’ll vote McCain, I will not start waffling on Obama.
Why in the hell would you vote for someone if you have to hold your nose?
I am not supporting either candidate. It was Hilary all the way. I will not vote for McCain just because I don’t like Obama. Where the hell is that logic?
Four more years of the same BS? No thanks.
Here is another video about Obama.
They are coming left and right tonight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8cNtH1mULo
That was so funny my neighbors heard me laughing. The look on the mob’s faces was pricesless.
HOLY SHIT that was funny! Priceless!
HAHAHA.
Obama / Biden 08: Holy / Shit.
Funny, Priceless and very creative. Kudos to whomever made that video.
Positively Brilliant Video!
I hope it goes VIRAL!!
viral viral viral I laughed till I cried.
Shit, I cannot get it to play–even adding the suffix. Damn ….
Ah…FINALLY! Yes, it was fantastic!
Funny as hell, and painful…but then, the truth often hurts!
That is an excellent video. I am disgusted with Obama and am hoping for the day when people see this fraud for what he is and do exactly what needs to be done — just walk away from the clown.
i agree, i will hold my nose and vote for mccain. i got off the fence over a year ago when I heard about rezko.
everytime those buildings were downgraded, crime, drugs and murders went up.
i blame obama for this.
Yeah blame one man for all the thugs out there. That makes sense.
I can take the Mc flip flopping. But not Obama.
No experience + Flipity flop = train wreck
Flip-flopping with 8 year intervals is not exactly the same thing as flip-flopping on every core issue you have been advocating within ONE MONTH of gaining the nomination! Off-shore drilling and what we now know about climate change and peak oil was completely different in 1999 than it is now. The other things will require more research. I don’t believe anything unless I read it from multiple sources now. Way too much propaganda and misinformation floating around.
However, having said that, for me it’s only a matter of whether I will consider McCain or someone else, because I will never vote for Obama and condone the voter suppression and fraud of BO and the DNC. They must get a clear message about that or it will set a devastating precedent.
McCain’s reversals on the Bush tax cuts, offshore drilling, waterboarding, and the indefinite detention of suspects at Guantanemo have all been during the run-up to the 2008 election.
Obama’s reversal on:
Iraq:
“Just this week, when I was asked, would I have voted for the $87 billion dollars, I said ‘no.’ I said no unequivocally because, at a certain point, we have to say no to George Bush. If we keep on getting steamrolled, we are not going to stand a chance.” [Obama remarks, New Trier Democratic Organization forum, 11/16/03]
But until he ran for president, Obama supported every funding bill for Iraq. [2005 Vote # 117, HR1268, 5/10/05; 2005 Vote # 326, S1042, 11/15/05; 2006 Vote # 112, HR4939, 5/4/06; 2006 Vote # 239; 2006 Vote # 186, S2766, 6/22/06, HR5631, 9/7/06]
Illegal Immigration:
In a March 2004 questionnaire, Obama was asked if the government should “crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants.” He replied “Oppose.”
In a Jan. 31, 2008, televised debate, he said that “we do have to crack down on those employers that are taking advantage of the situation.”
Decriminalization of Marijuana:
While running for the U.S. Senate in January 2004, Obama told Illinois college students that he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use.
In the Oct. 30, 2007, presidential debate, he joined other Democratic candidates in opposing the decriminalization of marijuana.
There are many more examples of flip flops by Obama.
I take it that McCain is just
placating the right wing. With a Democratic congress
he will work from the center.
McCain is no the “straight shooter” these days
but Obama does not have the ability to take
a single consistant stand. McCain
has changed some positions most likely to appeal
to the right wing base of his party. Obama cannot
keep a consistant position on anything.
The Democratic Congress has been more pliant than a basketful of newborn puppies with the Bush Administration; rolling over and giving him everything on his wish list: unlimited war funding, FISA reform, you name it, the White House got it. Oh sure, they make noise for the public while doing it, but let’s face it: they are a Democratic majority in name only.
If the Democratic Congress of 2008 can’t find the spine to resist and oppose the will of the wildly unpopular and incredibly inept Bush Administration, what makes you think they’ll present any kind of opposition to the McCain Administration?
Remember, McCain would be taking office in a radically empowered White House, after eight years of the Bush Administration doing everything it can to gut the power of Congress using signing statements, laughable political and legal arguments that amount to “The President is our King!” and even suggesting that the Vice President is an entirely separate branch of the government beholden to neither the executive or the legislative, and even now, Congress has failed to hold the administration accountable for any of it!
Voting for John McCain expecting him to have to work against a Democratic tide would be a serious mistake.
The only resistence to anyone’s political will comes from the Republicans in Congress, who have spent the last two years engaging in obstructionism in order to thwart the Democractic plurality and bring congress to a standstill, out of reflexive anti-Democratic-Party sentiment. The only bills they allow to pass without threatening a filibuster are the ones the Bush Administration approves of – they’ll even vote against their own bills if it means Congress is neutered.
Again, expecting a McCain Presidency to be leashed by a Democratic Congress is, politically, a fairy-tale. The only Congresspersons willing to execute the function of their branch are the Republicans, and only then if it thwarts a Democratic initiative. The Democratic Congress certainly hasn’t shown any ability or desire to.
The alternative – an Obama presidency – is TEN TIMES worse.
McCain is – hands down – the lesser of two evils.
In what specific way?
For one, McCain isn’t proposing “a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just was well-funded” as our military.
I don’t see him “proposing” that. I see him advocating improving what we’ve got.
Besides, you’re going to have to explain to me how providing national security from within the nation instead of invading non-terrorist nations on some sort of “flypaper” theory is worse – every single study of global terrorism over the last six years have shown that the current methods of fighting terrorism make the problem worse, not better.
No one “has to” explain any thing to you – work requirements are for Barky Obots. Go away.
That’s a dopey statement. We already have one and it’s called Blackwater and KBR and the other 150,000 of them in Iraq alone. I remind you this was set up by the Republicans in charge, including John McCain. He needs those civilian forces to protect him when he goes to Iraq to buy rugs for his photo ops!
Earmarks. His record of opposing earmarks means he is a better reform candidate who opposes the revolving door in Washington. This is bad news for the Tom Daschles of the Hill. No looting the treasury and taking a cushy lobbying job after you’ve betrayed your constituents.
One of the Senators most successful last term at securing “ear marks” was Hillary Clinton. “Ear Marks” help fund projects that would not be funded otherwise. Not all “earmarks” are bad.
I remember the comment. John McCain is dead set against them, and it’s pretty clear where Obama and the people pulling his strings stand on them. We have a huge deficit now. If you can’t show how you’ll pay for earmarks, and you have a poor track record with them, then a rubber stamp Congress is too much to entrust to you.
Give me a break. John McCain could have stopped all of the earmarking by placing one of their “secret holds”. It is great rhetoric to say I will stop earmarks. It’s another to actually do it. He will never stop earmarks unless Congress changes the way it does the peoples business. He can talk the good B.S. all he wants but his actions in the Senate prove otherwise.
Also, not enough attention has been paid to the roots of neoconservatism. It was a political philosophy that emerged in the US from the rejection of the social liberalism, moral relativism, and New Left counterculture of the 1960s. It influenced the presidential administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush, representing a realignment in American politics, and the transition of some liberals to the right of the political spectrum; hence the term, which refers to being ‘new’ conservatives. George W. Bush ran as a “compassionate conservative.” His faith-based initiative programs laid groundwork for a fascist movement in our government.
The term neoconservative was originally used as a criticism against liberals who had “moved to the right”. Michael Harrington, a democratic socialist, coined the usage of neoconservative in a 1973 Dissent magazine article concerning welfare policy. According to E. J. Dionne, the nascent neoconservatives were driven by “the notion that liberalism” had failed and “no longer knew what it was talking about.” This is why so many Republicans rejected George W. Bush and why neoconservatism is a lame duck in this election.
The people in power who want to remain in power from behind the scenes have now infiltrated the Democratic party, the new party of choice for big business and elites. The Republican brand has been seriously damaged. But Bush was able to pull off his agendas with allies in the hard line left of the Democratic party; they shared the same agendas with the neoconservatives. It was a useful alliance. And Obama will be their puppet.
McCain has always shown an independent streak, and he has good moral character and judgment. Obama looks ruthlessly ambitious, cynical and ultimately self-serving. Plus, he does not have much national level experience. There is too much room for him to be taken advantage of once in office, and there is actually little that would suggest he isn’t as corrupt as the rest of the rats around him. Plus, he’s a liar.
There will never be anything worse than the Bush admin. I will never vote for the lesser of two evils. Everyone should stay home. Not one vote for either. That would be the better message. Give us two candidates people can get behind. I can hear the aftermath of a McCain Presidency. Then who will you blame? Everyone who votes for either candidate will be responsible. No thanks.
the biden hits the fan. just in time for the convention.
http://londonamerican01.blogspot.com/2008/08/now-it-hits-fan-watch.html
A victory for Obama will only ensure the complete loss of the Democratic Party. People like Hillary will no longer be welcome in the party nor will they have any real power. In order to defeat the Obama takeover of the party, and rebuild the party, it’s necessary to defeat the party. If one does not wish to vote for McCain, how does one accomplish this?
Well said.
I’m going to have to agree. If anything, I’m voting McCain to make sure I send a loud message to Ms. Brazile that I didn’t stay home.
Don’t you get it? The party is lost and has been for a long time. They both stink. This is all politics all the time. All it is about anymore is who has more power. Who can screw up the country. How many politicians do any of you trust? They all have baggage and they all have things in their past that are not very favorable. I am a Hilary and Bill supporter and always have been. But they have some icky stuff in their past too. Obama is not God. He only took over the party because all of the Dems allowed him to. A defeat will not obtain the objective you mention. No amount of lamenting is going to change where we are now. Don’t vote. Neither McCain or Obama deserve one vote from any American. Period.
I find it hard to believe that after all that has been said on this site that you can now start acting like TM
McCain is a true American hero who has the experience and integrity to lead this great country at a time of great peril.
Did I mention that McCain is Pro American!
This is no less than a fight for our way of life and existence.
I bury my differences with republicans as we meet together in the center to defeat the Anti-Americans.
American Nationalist!
Forever
Hillary or McCain!
Obama is NOT an option!
When you’re trying to decide between two options–neither of which was your first choice–it’s important to take a long hard look at both of them.
This is good honest advice for Obama and McCain supporters alike.
McCain’s feet will have to be held to the fire — and he will have to be watched. McCain isn’t a saint — he is after all, a Republican. I do not trust the GOP and I do not trust the Dems.
Obama will be a joke from here on out — but he also needs to be watched — and called on his flip flops and LIES.
PUMA — member of no party — cats can’t be herded.
When one of the options is my last choice I don’t need to spend too waste too much time examinating them. I suppose Obama was taking a hard look at Wright, Phleger, Ayers, MicHELLe and the rest of his weirdo clan for the last 20 years. Anyone who has not figured this out by now ought not be voting. I have been way ahead of the curve on Obama and have been waiting for others to catch up.
I find it hard to believe that after all that has been said on this site that you can now start acting like TM
My thoughts exactly, although I’m holding my tongue, for now.
Ditto
I’m not holding my tongue any more for ANY PERSON or ANY SITE – especially after the manipulations that have gone on in this election thus far…
Coming here tonight has been a PROFOUND disappointment and disillusionment.
This site has done a good job at exposing Obama — attempting to criticize the only person who can derail Obama is counter productive.
Exactly.
I don’t care about appearing balanced and fair. NoQuarter is not
HuffingtonpostPoliticoCNNMSNBC…fuck it i can’t think of a blanced MSM outlet cuz there isnt one.My Point is the War has begin.
The Battle Lines are Drawn.
Voting Present is NOT an option.
Seattle Moss – well said – Maybe we can reason with Larry.
Thank you, Susan.
I like the idea of “keeping them guessing”. The more they want us, our leverage increases.
I too fear another republican administration, and if obama has no coattails, the dems could lose everything.
Damn the DNC for forcing an unqualified, ineligible candidate on us when we needed a fighter for America!
Hillary has one week of leverage. She either seals the deal and grabs the nomination, or her supporters who are unimpressed with Obama and feel this election is too important to sit out or vote third party will vote for McCain this year.
Exactly. This is a hell of a time to waffle on voting against Obama.
It’s not about McCain. It’s about making sure these THUGS don’t get away with election-jacking tactics like these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIJVLxhmbXw&eurl=http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=12119
Convention Eve CNN Poll: Hillary Defections Hurting Obama
http://patriotroom.com/?p=1386
I wouldn’t dream of telling anybody else what they should do. But there is no way I’m voting for John McCain. Absolutely no way.
With respect, you own your own vote. As do we all.
But what is the course of action to use our votes to keep Obama from being elected? Barack Obama and the Democratic Party have done everything possible to keep Hillary Clinton out of power … not just out of the White House, but out of the power structure of the Democratic Party. Hillary and Bill Clinton will be put on display at this convention to make one last attempt to lure a large group of her voters back into the fold. According to a report by Fox this evening, Hillary wants Obama’s fundraising list (she might not want it when she realizes there are contributors in the middle east on the list, but hey that’s another story.) Obama will not share that list. Hillary has been jumping through hoops to raise money, woo voters, etc. for Obama even while he splashed in the Hawaiian surf. Now she’s gong to release her delegates on Wednesday, we hear. It’s an endless, non stop insult to Hillary. And she doesn’t even get that fundraising list. But I really am starting to believe that she and Bill are going to be shut out and that will be that. Even if Obama loses this election, if he loses by a few votes, you can bet he’ll be back in 2012. He needs to get his butt kicked in this election. Do we make that happen by voting for Ralph Nader? Keep in mind that there are Republicans who will vote for Obama.
Well it is a problem. If your main concern is that Obama not be elected then that may be your most effective option. I just can’t do it, personally.
I’m a Democrat — even though the party needs changing. I’ll focus on trying to change it from the inside, I guess. I just can’t cross over to the other party. It’s not that McCain doesn’t have some good qualities — he does. But his party’s vision for America the polar opposite of my own in nearly every important way.
Neither party truly represents me. I suspect there are many that feel the same way. But I’m trying to look past the candidates and focus on the larger picture. It’s difficult, but I think it’s necessary.
I’m looking at the larger picture too – 4 years of McCain is better than 8 years of Obama.
There is absolutely NO WAY this level of corruption can be changed from the inside. Did you see the Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting? The only possible way to make any change is to basically protest the DNC’s corruption by helping the rival party win.
That is the only possible way they MIGHT begin to make some changes. If you help Obama to win by not voting McCain – you have enabled them to continue DNC “business as usual” – PERIOD.
It has to be a massive defeat. That’s the only way to purge the Party, sad but true. Trying to change the Party from the inside is a nonstarter. Look what they’ve done to the Clintons. And you think this fraud and corruption should be allowed? No thanks. I’d rather McCain won the election. There are worse things than losing elections.
Did you see the Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting? The only possible way to make any change is to basically protest the DNC’s corruption by helping the rival party win.
Voting Republican for a lifelong Dem, I would imagine, is the nuclear option. I learned a lot about the flawed primary process in the Democratic party, and I was surprised by the level of corruption. You have to be tough to be taken seriously, though. There was no unified support of Hillary during the primaries. Women were walked all over. It needs to stop now not tomorrow, and the only way to do that is use the power of your vote.
I agree with what Mandelay says and want to underscore the importance of everyone’s right to choose. Especially since the 0bamabots are so vicious in their contempt for the Democratic process. I will not be one of them.
But Mandelay raises excellent points. How do we stop this coup in the Democratic Party? And the truth is if we do as Brazile dictated and stay home, or if we vote a 3rd Party, it opens the door for 0bama to win or if he loses by a small margin, he’ll be back to haunt us in 2012. That’s the reason they’ve moved to Chicago. They probably have already outlined a scenario that includes losing in 2008, and coming back with a vengeance in 2012. Four years later means Hillary’s supporters are older, incapicitated or dead. They will have 4 years to indoctrinate the next wave of 18 year olds into the Alinsky Method.
I recognize Party loyalty and if you feel that way then you should vote for 0bama. But many of us here have left the Party because of this coup and its history of choosing candidates that can’t win.
These people have to be taught a lesson and so I’m in ‘tough love‘ mode. Loyalty is a 2-way street. The Dem leaders and 0bama have the option of trying a different approach with us disaffected Democrats. Instead, I have to read a post where the 0bamabots are declaring war on us.
Now is that the way toward unity? What happened to wise and enlightened leadership? Isnt’s that what we look for in leaders? But they’d rather be petty and vindictive, even violent. So how are they better than Republicans?
Voting for McCain won’t turn me or anybody else Republican by voting for him in this election. The choices are limited and I’m making the hard choice.
I’m not going to let Dean, Pelosi and the whole cabal railroad me. I OWN MY VOTE! And this year, the Republicans are getting it.
I will not stay with a Party that told me to stay home they don’t need my vote. I still can’t believe that they actually said this and have yet to apologize.
They should be down on their knees begging for our votes. Instead, they are rallying their thug troops to online violence and other disgusting tactics. As far as I’m concerned this make them worse than Republicans and I want no part of them.
And btw, a lot of us will still be here in 4 years. They might as well chalk it up.
I certainly going to do my part in helping them with that.
WIN WITHOUT ME!!!
Well, I understand why you feel this way.
There is a real split in the party, and the Obama folks definitely have the upper hand. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t a ton of good Democrats who are sticking with the party, and are dedicated to changing it. But many will leave… and that makes me sad… because there really is no viable third party alternative.
Maybe the best thing to do would be to vote for McCain at the top of the ticket, and then straight Democratic. That would ensure four years of gridlock, which really might not be such a bad thing. Use those years to put pressure on the Democrats to change. Hillary will get a lot more done as a key member in a majority congress than she will as a minority opposition leader.
Anyway, that’s just my 2 cents. I know most don’t agree, and I respect that.
Tell the TRUTH!!
When you spell it out clearly like that, the choice is sadly crystal clear. We MUST vote for McCain now to keep the Obama/DNC sleaze OUT of the White House.
Those people do NOT have our best interests at heart. Just look at the horrible way they’re treating us now – and Obama’s not even President! Can you imagine how much WORSE things will be if this fool gets elected?
If Obama’s the frying pan, McCain’s the fire. That’s just my opinion.
Vice versa for me, because ideology trumps party – witness the neoconservative movement. It started when Democratic California Gov. Ronald Reagan switched parties and changed the Republican party forever. As much as many still revere him, both Bushes were continuing what he started. George H.W. Bush was always pulling the strings from behind the scenes, but Reagan was still a good leader during the Cold War.
Their most effective opponent was Bill Clinton, and it infuriated them. Killing Hillary’s campaign was the game plan from day 1 going back to 2004.
Obama is neatly in their pocket. His career in Chicago was propped up by these people, and he has proven while in the US Senate that he will do their bidding. Obama is the next level, a post-modern coup of the Democratic party. Why give the Democratic party control of all three branches of government when it clearly cannot be trusted?
don’t forget what Obama told Gov Rendell when he was arranging a fund raising in PA…’I don’t need the people, I just need the checks’. That speaks volumes to me. I don’t matter to him, and sadly neither do the rest of the loyal democrats.
I agree with you. I will not ever vote for a Republican who was instrumental in the state of this country. I will never vote for Obama. My only choice is to have an undervote for the Presidency. What a sad commentary. I will never vote for McCain as a vote against Obama. What kind of logic is that?
McCain or write Hillary in. That is my choice.
Obama is a radical muslim, bisexual (Donald Young, larry Sinclair), sexist, egotistical maniac.
Why in the heck would i vote for someone who does not listen to 18 million voters who voted for someone else to go for a guy named Biden who is trying to keep his sodomite lover, Larry Sinclair, from becoming a big story.
Larry Sinclair, the guy with the 27 year criminal record, who also failed the polygraph test he was given to prove his allegations? Yeah, that guy’s story will hold up in court….
The polygraph was administered by porn producers. Just saying.
Not only does Obama not need you, nor does Hillary. I’m married with a husband and as a true Democratic Party supporter I detest homophobic bigots. Most of them are self hating gays themselves. So go play with your Republican friends (although look how many of them have been arrested for going with under age boys).
Who the hell cares if you’re “married with a husband”? Go away.
PS I love gay men and lesbians in general. It’s Obama who has a problem with them….that’s why most gays and lesbians supported Hillary.
Thank you for an objecive post about looking into McCain. You don’t have to vote Obama, but you are doing your country a disservice by voting for a guy who will basically be a replacement neocon puppet for Dubya.
Kelvin,
You must be really sad that we’re now winning in Iraq. I can just imagine how empty you all felt after losing your main issue for existence.
We all know if we had listened to Obama America today would be a defeated and disgraced country.
Thank God for John McCain!
One last let down for you America haters…
The Iraq war is becoming a Brilliant Strategy!
Winning in Iraq? Where have you been? We are paying in Iraq. Our hard earned tax dollars are paying the tribes to not kill our soldiers. You call that a winning strategy? When we leave and we will leave, what then? They will start killing each other and out soldiers again.
Disgraced? We are already disgraced in the eyes of the world. We invade a country in the Middle East without so much as a thought to the consequences. This is the biggest disaster ever to befall our country thanks to a Republican President and his minions. Winning? 4000 dead soldiers and untold debt owed to China? Oh yeah we are winning? We look so stupid it is embarrassing. This “brilliant strategy” is the old American standby; throw money at the problem. Once they don’t get any more cash, they will be back to the same old inter faith fighting that have been involved with for 2000 years. There is no winning strategy in this mess. None.
Yo Teenie Weenin Kelvinie:
No you do all of us a disservice for voting for OBush O8!
Plus, your guy needs a babysitter. So don’t think BO will actually be running the country.
If you haven’t figured it out yet, your “baby BO” is just the puppet. Do you know who the puppet master is?
Stop the hate!
“Kelvin Hearts PUMAs”,
I really don’t think Susan posted for your response, you go ahead and vote for Obambi, I don’t have to, I have a choice, lol.
Kelvin,, didn’t you read the cnn link? Obama’s got this WEEK to turn things around or he is toast!
27% of Clinton supporters are going for McCain.
There have been recent projections of that number going as high as 50%.
Obama CAN”T win without her supporters.
It’s over now.
Yes it is. OVER.
That’s about 5.6 million voters.
When a leftist asshole talks about the neoconservative conspiracy, they are really admitting they hate Jews.
What the hell?
I mean, I’ll be the first to stand up and say I’m a leftist asshole (well, not really an asshole. Most people tell me I’m nice to a fault despite really, really wanting to be perceived as an asshole) and the neoconservative agenda absolutely terrifies me.
I don’t really see what that has to do with either the Jewish religion or people one way or the other.
My problem with it is that “neoconservatism” is just the nice politically correct label we’ve put on “fascism.” Now I realize my knowledge of history gets a little fuzzy sometimes (for instance, I have no idea what the Crimean War was all about), but as I recall, fascism isn’t really an ideology that was ever good news for Jewish folks.
Ash,
I like to get right to the point!
This is not about Crimea anymore.
Today we are in a world struggle for natural resources. The United States insures through it’s sphere of influence the flow of vital resources for the western civilized world. We are also the protectors of the world against Terrorism.
Everything that you see around you could disappear if the United States loses it’s position in the world.
Quite simply the end of your way of life.
Is that what you America haters want?
Sometimes you have to fight for freedom!
Creating a democratic pro American Iraq out of the ashes of a failed policy will protect the world from the emerging threats of Iran and Russia.
My point being that most conspiracy theorists who think our government is “murdering” our soldiers and going out of its way to “rape and kill innocent women and children,” which is the turn the conversation is taking when you hear “puppet for Bush neoconservative blah blah” are assholes. They don’t bring up intelligent arguments, they instead ascribe ulterior motives and launch far out character attacks. It is irrational and hateful, not to mention counterproductive.
Neoconservatism started with the left. It is the foreign policy of Woodrow Wilson who believed in nation-building. This policy is most evident in the Middle East (though we’ve also done it in Latin America and Southeast Asia, for example), and Israel is blamed for influencing us.
From wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
is a political philosophy that emerged in the United States from the rejection of the social liberalism, moral relativism, and New Left counterculture of the 1960s. It influenced the presidential administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush, representing a realignment in American politics, and the transition of some liberals to the right of the political spectrum; hence the term, which refers to being ‘new’ conservatives.[1] [2]
The term neoconservative was originally used as a criticism against liberals who had “moved to the right”.[3][4] Michael Harrington, a democratic socialist, coined the usage of neoconservative in a 1973 Dissent magazine article concerning welfare policy.[5] According to E. J. Dionne, the nascent neoconservatives were driven by “the notion that liberalism” had failed and “no longer knew what it was talking about.”[1]
Antisemitism
Some believe that criticism of neoconservatism is couched in antisemitic stereotypes, and that the term has been adopted by the political left to stigmatize support for Israel. In The Chronicle of Higher Education, Robert J. Lieber warned that criticism of the 2003 Iraq War had spawned[40]
a conspiracy theory purporting to explain how [American] foreign policy… has been captured by a sinister and hitherto little-known cabal. A small band of neoconservative (read, Jewish) defense intellectuals… has taken advantage of 9/11 to put their ideas over on [Bush]… Thus empowered, this neoconservative conspiracy, “a product of the influential Jewish-American faction of the Trotskyist movement of the ’30s and ’40s” ([Michael] Lind)… has fomented war with Iraq… in the service of Israel’s Likud government (Patrick J. Buchanan and [Eric Alterman).
David Brooks derided the "fantasies" of "full-mooners fixated on a... sort of Yiddish Trilateral Commission", beliefs which had "hardened into common knowledge... In truth, people labeled neocons (con is short for 'conservative' and neo is short for 'Jewish') travel in widely different circles..."[41] Barry Rubin argued that the neoconservative label is used as an antisemitic pejorative:[42]
First, ‘neo-conservative’ is a codeword for Jewish. As antisemites did with big business moguls in the nineteenth century and Communist leaders in the twentieth, the trick here is to take all those involved in some aspect of public life and single out those who are Jewish. The implication made is that this is a Jewish-led movement conducted not in the interests of all the, in this case, American people, but to the benefit of Jews, and in this case Israel.
The charges of antisemitism are controversial. As with the contested concept of the new antisemitism, some commentators claim that identifying support of Israel with the Jewish people is itself antisemitic. For example, Norman Finkelstein says it would be antisemitic “both to identify and not to identify Israel with Jews.”[43]
I cannot claim to have never read such utter bull before as I have read the disgraceful postings of Seattle Moss before.
To claim criticizing Neo Cons is anti semetic is a joke. New is not “jewish” it is “New”.
The fact is the surge is not working if you are an ordinary Iraqi. Iraqi citizens are living in a combination of a Military State (with the Military provided by the US) and a Warlord state with the Warlords being funded by us as taxpayers. Women are the greatest victims of this Warlord state, with their rights crushed each day.
If Bush ever admitted to fighting a resource war, he would be prosecuted for war crimes. As for controlling terrorism, Iraq has become a terrorist training ground.
As for giving democracy to Iraq – what happens if they vote for a Pro Iran government? After all – HAMAS is now in Government, elected as a response to US Foreign Policy.
McCain has a long, DOCUMENTED history of working across the aisle with Dems, unlike BO who only talks about it. If you want to know who someone is, look at their actions, not their words. This guy is teleprompter speeches and nothing more. What has he shown us during the primary season? Weakness, hypocrisy, indecision and lack of principles. Next.
oh christ suddenly Kelvin the resident Troll thinks this site is going to in his direction. The apocolypse has f*cking arrived.
Kelvin, WE haven’t changed. You’re still an idiot. Go away.
Well, I for one, am sick of hearing that the tax cuts didn’t help anyone but the poor. I am considered middle income, between my hubby and I we make about 70,000 and that’s with lots of overtime. Since we file long form, I have an accountant do it for us. I went to her, which by the way, she is a dem and I asked her just what were my tax cuts. She looked up my tax return and showed me where it was about $1500. Even she didn’t want to admit it, but it was there in black and white. So enough of the “only the wealthy” got the cuts. It is not true in my case.
And quite frankly, I am not going to vote for Obama period. I was a union rep and my husband still is. The union he represents have used their rank and file for years, and now the rank and file are not going to take it this year. So I would say that half of them will also not be voting for Obama. Their union wants to take away their lump sum retirement because in their opinion, the employees don’t know how to handle that kind of money. Who in the hell made them God. This is the union, not the company. They want them to take a smaller portion and then give them more per month after they retire. Alot of the retirees are banking of getting their lump sum. They worked for it and it is not the unions business how they spend it. Talk about big brother telling you how to think and what to do.
So if some of you don’t want to vote for McCain, then that’s fine. But don’t complain when Barky takes this country to the dumpster. And by the way, I was a dem, until they put up Kerry and used the likes of Moore, Penn, Springer to intimidate the college kids, which my son was one of. I’m now an Independent who voted for Hillary, but McCain was always going to be second on my list. After what I knew about Obama, I knew I wasn’t going to go there. I’m an indy and I can vote country over party. There is no party worth destroying the country over. Obama has divided her to the point that it will never be united unless we stand up to him. If you like the Chicago style politics for our country, then by all means, vote it, vote for the thug with hopes that he will do what he says he will. But I haven’t seen any thing that tells me he has kept one promise, even in Illinois. So why would I believe him now.
I have a son serving his 3rd tour in Iraq and I love my country and I will vote McCain. With the countries that have threaten us, I can’t believe that we would even think of voting for someone who wants to get rid of our arsenal and create a civilian security force that will rival our military. Never Obama.
Please thank your son for his service to our country. If a civilian security force ever becomes a reality, this chick is joining the resistance.
Ditto, and thank you, as well, for raising such a fine son. Thank you for caring so much about the US.
Thank you Republican chick, , and I believe in some way it is already happening with a precursor of the Obama indoctrination camps.
I’ll be right beside you RC and proud to be there. I’m waiting till the end of the convention, then I am getting behind McCain 100 % of the way. I’ll volunteer, max out on donations, anything I can do to help.
Please let me Ditto that THANK YOU to your son Ohio. I’ve had two cousins die in this war…I will light a candle and pray for your son’s safety.
Ohio, that was very well stated. “There is no party worth destroying the country over. Obama has divided her to the point that it will never be united unless we stand up to him.” I couldn’t agree more.
Amen Ohio…. Preach.
I hope everyone in Ohio feels as you do.
Enough, Democratic Party!!!
ENOUGH!
One assumes that McCain will have a Democratic controlled Congress, but the current members of Congress are even less favorable than President Bush.
I have several relatives that will be voting 3rd party because they’re tired of voting for the “lesser of two evils”.
I would hope I’d never be so high on myself or think so little about my beliefs to need or want any side pandering to me.
If you are uncomfortable voting for either candidate, there is always Nader, McKinney, Barr, Baldwin, and probably several others I can’t recall at the moment.
You’re forgetting one very important factor in Congress’s negative polling–the LOCAL Congresscritter.
Whenever a poll is taken regarding the job that Congress is doing, that poll question is based on the overall job performance of the ENTIRE Congress as perceived by the respondent.
In virtually every instance when a respondent is asked about his/her OWN Senator and/or Representative, the response will generally be much more positive and if the Congresscritter is of the same party or political persuasion, the positive rating will be even higher.
Then, of course, there’s the incumbent factor. For the last decade, in spite of EVERY SINGLE POLL that has shown a general distaste for Congressional job performance, the incumbent Representative has been returned to office roughly 95% of the time and incumbent Senators are returned to DC at a similar rate (a direct comparison is somewhat difficult due to the longer period a Senator serves and the staggered election of Senators). Even in 2006, when the Dems took control of the House, the overall return rate of incumbents was still well above 90%. The Dems picked up 30 seats previously held by Republicans, but 18 of those seats were open (the incumbent didn’t run)–basically, this would mean that only 12 incumbent Republicans were “kicked out”. There had been two incumbent Representatives who’d lost their respective primaries–one Dem and one GOP–but each district was eventually won by the primary’s winning candidate. By my estimation, that means that only 14 incumbents were “kicked out” of Congress by the voters out of 431 seats (there’d been 4 vacancies in Congress prior to the election), meaning an impressive (but ultimately depressing) 96.75% incumbent retention rate. The Senate was much better in terms of ousting incumbents. The GOP lost 6 seats with 28 open Senate races at stake; 5 Senators–3 Dems, 1 GOP, 1 Ind–had opted to leave the Senate. That worked out to a net retention rate of 78.6%. Of course, the CT Senate seat that had been Democrat Joe Lieberman’s remained his as an Independent. (Overall, the Congressional retention rate was 95.6%.)
“Getting back to John McCain: It is essential, before we starting shouting that we’ll vote for McCain if Hillary isn’t nominated, that we take a GOOD HARD, LONG LOOK at this man and his running mate.”
Susan,
With all due respect, have you been taking a sip of the Obambi kool-aid?
It’s bad enough we have to be subjected to the Obambibots ……… I’m just saying.
I can only hope your musing are just that, musings, as the number of blogs not in the bag for Obambi are getting scarce, don’t make me move to another, please.
Voting for McCain without making sure he won’t ruin the country first would be cutting off your nose to spite your face; additionally, when he enacts policies you don’t approve of and are counter to Democratic values, that would be a lot of egg of your face, to mix my metaphors.
If you examine McCain and decide that you don’t have any major disagreements with is platform, then voting for him would be a fine way to express your disagreement with Obama.
On the other hand, if you find McCain’s anti-choice, pro-war stances objectionable, if you disagree with his lopsided tax policy (amount to large tax cuts if you’re making more than a million and no tax cut if you’re making much less than that), if you disagree with a stated desire to continue the Bush Administration’s policies, then voting for McCain isn’t the right way to register your protest.
Voting Hillary as a write-in candidate would express a massive groundswell of support for her the Obama administration couldn’t ignore (seeing even a million plus write in votes for a single name is unheard of, let alone more than that), and would show Hillary that she could make a run for Senate Majority Leader.
Remember that a Vice President is, objectively, a powerless position; it has only the power the President gives to VP, and there’s no reason to expect that Obama would maintain a Cheney-style Vice Presidency. On the other hand, but not being Vice President, Hillary can work to draft actual legislation to help Americans while in the Senate, and with a massive groundswell of public support as well as a Democratic Administration (say what you will, Obama is not opposed to Democratic mainstays like universal health care and will work with a Democratic majority to see health care reformed), and that work would only be bolstered by the support she ganered during the election vis write-ins.
As much as I agree with the charges of sexism (less directly from the Obama campaign than some, but media coverage was rank with it), and other objections (Obama’s FISA vote is indefensible), I really have to say I can’t see a reason to vote for McCain if you have any Democratic sympathies at all; the man is anathema to Democratic policies, far more so than Obama is.
No way in hell, will I waste my vote by writing in Hillary or 3rd party voting. And read my previous post on the tax cuts for the “wealthy”. Get real. You know Obama is tanking so you just want to drive a wedge and have people stay home or vote 3rd party. Not me, I want him to crash and burn.
I’m with you. Just because McCain has an R by his name doesn’t mean he’s the devil. Sadly for me I’ve had the face the fact that sometimes the ass in the race has a D by their name.
Now an independent voter.
I have no idea what your particular tax situation was or what might account for your own particular experience.
I do know what the charts worked up by Citizens for Tax Justice clearly demonstrate about the Bush tax cuts:
http://www.ctj.org/html/gwb0602.htm
I also know what the Tax Policy Center’s and Brookings Institution’s comparison chart of McCain and Obama tax proposals clearly show:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html
What they show is a fundamental injustice that under the McCain plan gets much worse. McCain’s plan would run the federal deficit up even higher, increase already unfair tax cuts to the rich enormously, and decrease cuts to everyone else.
The same information can be found from other sources with minimal effort.
I do find this a point worthy of serious consideration. Others, I know, do not.
You can certainly argue that Obama is lying, but let’s face it; if we abandon even the pretense that publically-advertised policy positions are at least a core of truth, then we have no basis whatsoever to judge any candidate on.
Obama’s website presents a very clear tax policy that offers both a larger discount to low- and middle-income earners, but a reasonably large increase to high-income voters.
I understand your desire to want Obama to lose, but enabling a McCain presidency is most definitely not the way to do it. Honestly, my advice is to stay home if you can’t bring yourself to vote for the Democratic candidate and don’t want to make a symbolic gesture by voting for your principles.
Voting for McCain might be symbolic, but it’s voting against everything a Democrat stands for; like I said, cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The August 10, 2008 Washington Post has an article entitled, Obama Tax Plan Would Balloon Deficit, Analysis Finds.
Obama plans to adopt Bush’s bookkeeping system. According to the article, Obama’s bookkeeping method will guarantee that the $9.5 trillion national debt will get much bigger.
Obama truly is BUSH 3.
And you’re critical of McCain when Obama is a continuation of Bush.
Andrew, please put a sock in it. I’m sick of Obama supporters trying to justify his candidacy. He’s corrupt and a liar. Ditto the DNC leadership. I don’t want to vote for McCain – the Republican Platform distresses me, but at least I can look at McCain and know he’s a patriot and a leader. Get a clue, many of us are voting AGAINST Obama and if holding our nose to vote for McCain to make sure The One does not make it to the White House, that’s the price many of us are willing to pay. So get a grip, we’re NOT coming home.
Party Unity My Ass!!!
He’s a patriot and a leader and he’s still the worst choice you could make.
What good is it to vote for a leader when he’s going to lead you deeper into the swamp?
Go ahead and vote against Obama. But voting for McCain implicit means validating every last awful thing the Bush Administration has done over the last eight years. At some point, I have to point out that this makes your liberal bona fides suspect.
Voting for a man who wants more war, opposes reproductive rights, opposes pay equality between genders, opposes health care, opposes a progressive tax system, has no idea about the economy, wants to drill our way out of dependence on oil, etc, etc, etc… all to stick it in the eye of Obama? Fine, but it has to be said: at the point you vote to enable four more years of the worst Presidency since Nixon, and a Republican to boot, it’s hard to make the case that we should even *want* you home.
Flip this on its head. Obama also got ~18 million votes in the primary. If Hillary had gotten the nod, and Obama supporters decided that they were going to vote McCain instead of Hillary, what would you be saying to them?
Hillary herself sees the disaster a McCain presidency would make! Why can’t you?
Voting for a man who wants more war, opposes reproductive rights, opposes pay equality between genders, opposes health care, opposes a progressive tax system, has no idea about the economy, wants to drill our way out of dependence on oil, etc, etc, etc… all to stick it in the eye of Obama? Fine, but it has to be said: at the point you vote to enable four more years of the worst Presidency since Nixon, and a Republican to boot, it’s hard to make the case that we should even *want* you home.
McCain does not want MORE war. His strategy has been the winning strategy, and he is a hawk, no doubt about it. But he could end the war more responsibly and ultimately reduce our time commitment in the Middle East, as he has already demonstrated.
What you call reproductive rights, others call a holocaust. McCain is a Republican, and he must appeal to his base. That means he operates from another principle. But he is progressive and definitely not stupid. Plus, he will have to cooperate with Dems in Congress, something he has proven he can and will do.
McCain will appoint women and Hispanics to the Supreme Court. He will also appoint more women to cabinet positions, as he said during the Saddleback Forum.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=analt7SXDKiQ&refer=home
Americans want to drill here in the US. The Obama / Pelosi / T. Boone Pickens natural gas ideas are ill-advised and a threat to our national security. We have the OCS and shale deposits that can yield hundreds of billions of barrels of oil and in as soon as three years in some places.
McCain’s health care, while not much of a change from what we’re doing now, is still better than Obama’s which would make us all prey to the health insurance providers who would be unchecked and empowered by mandates.
And your flip it on its head argument is stupid. You’re talking like Obama won with a fair contest. It was all rigged to his benefit. Otherwise…
Why were all early primary states not held to the rules?
Why did the Democratic leadership steer votes and influence the results?
Why was caucus fraud ignored?
Why was sexism ignored and denied?
Why were Michigan and Florida votes thrown out for the entirety of the primaries?
Why was Democratic party tradition bypassed regarding the convention?
sorry, but obviously you missed Hillary saying that She and McCain are both experienced and ready to lead the country, and OBAMA is not? Did you miss that or are you just choosing to ignore it and vote the PARTY?
I agree with you Andrew. Thank you for your insightful posts. I will never enable 4 more years of this admin. I am a Hilary supporter all the way. However it happened, she is not the nominee and it is time to move on. I will not vote for Obama and I will not vote for McCain. Lamenting about it will change nothing. Voting for McCain will not send a message to the DNC. It will get another right wing nut job running this country. No thanks.
no one asked for your advice. Voting AGAINST Barky hurts him twice. Staying home hurts him once.
Donna Brazile told us to stay home…I don’t think so.
I’m voting for McKinney…but I live in the bluest of blue states and have the luxury of doing so. But as I said before, if I lived in a swing state I’d vote for McCain in a heartbeat.
Obama is an inexperienced junior senator with no accomplishments. His initial claim to fame was being against the Iraq war. However, he wasn’t in the Senate to vote on the issue. He actually voted for funding of the Iraq War on several occasions. He has now selected a VP that supported the Iraq War. So much for Obama having principles.
Obama has urged America to negotiate with terrorist without conditions. This may be why Castro of Cuba, Gaddafi of Libya, Kim Jong of North Korea, Hamas and Hugo Chavez of Venezuela have all voiced support for Obama.
Obama has tried to portray himself as an outside who wants to change Washington. His advisors consist of Washington insiders.
Let’s face it-Obama is a globalist and America and American workers are not first on his list of concerns.
Obama is a disaster for America.
McCain will ruin the country? That is the dumbest thing I have heard. If McCain defeats Obama then he saves the country.
The road to ruin for America is paved with a $10 billion-a-month occupation of Iraq, fundamental tax injustices, rapidly escallating federal deficits, a doubled national debt, and a dollar that’s dropped in value by 41% in only 7 years.
I could get on board with John McCain if John McCain told me specifics about how he plans to correct any of that. Unfortunately, he has yet to propose a single thing that logic doesn’t tell me will only make it worse. That’s my basic problem with John. That’s what I fear will ruin the country: to just keep on doing what we’ve been doing for the past 7 years.
Explain EXACTLY how Obama would correct this situation.
At least his tax cut proposals have a far less aggravating effect on the federal deficit, and benefit the middle class and working people.
I believe he’s open to very serious alternative energy development, which could lead to our freedom from reliance on Middle Eastern oil, and could free us from military competetion with the Chinese and Russians. That competetion would prove enormously expensive. Alternative energy would also address the global warming problem without additional cost or policy. I fear John’s “plan” is just a cover for keeping us dependent on oil and coal.
I’m also worried McCain is still in the grips of cold war syndrome. We’re already being tapped out by two open-ended wars. I don’t want a new arms race with the Russians. We simply can’t afford it.
Obama’s proposal to remove the cap from Social Security FICA tax without raising the rate–the so-called doughnut plan–seems like it might be a workable solution to the program’s solvency problem. John’s talk about privatization spooks me. Social Security is an insurance scheme, not a means for fueling Wall Street.
True, the devil is always in the details. But I like the general direction in which Obama policy seems to be pointed. It seems more focused on Americans in general than McCain’s plan–which seems to strongly favor wealth and privilage.
Not true anon.
I posted this below but will post it again just for you!
Thedonut-hole plan is a Ponzi scheme. There is no way Obama would be able to catch and reprimand tax evaders. Raising the capital gains tax, heavily taxing corporations and placing the burden of taxes on high income earners with no benefits will encourage the wealthy to move their money. You have then consumption taxes and regressive payroll taxes. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Obama’s plan would do to our economy what the housing market crash and credit crisis di. It is irresponsible and corrupt.
I would remind you that both the Enron Loophole and the legislative deregulation that led to the sub-prime mortgage disaster was largely brought to us by Phil Gramm, who John McCain tapped as his top economic advisor early in the the 2008 presidential race.
McCain’s grasp of our economic problems–both how we got there and what to do about them–leaves a little something to be desired. He apparently isn’t even qualified to recognize and select people who do understand the problem.
First off, his commitment to a fairly speedy withdrawl from Iraq with no plans for a series of permanent bases in the region would mean no longer throwing billions per month into that purposeless black hole.
The proposed rollback of Bush tax cuts combined with a windfall profits tax on oil companies would go further towards reducing the Federal deficit, and therefore start controlling the debt; all of this combined would strengthen the dollar.
Additionally, increased investment in renewable energy research would create jobs and strengthen the domestic economy.
Even those basic steps would be a massive aid to the economy, and that really just seems to be scratching the surface of his policies; he’s got at least 26 position papers dozens of pages long posted to his website, and while they’re not exactly divinely inspired, they’re a damn sight better than what McCain proposes, which is, as he’s stated so many times, more of the last eight years, and that’s about it.
First, Obama has not provided a concrete definition of “speedy withdrawl” from Iraq. He has flip-flopped on timelines.
He has, however, stated that more troops are needed in Afghanistan due to the heavy battles going on in that part of the country. There goes the taxpayers dollars into a “blackhole” courtesy of Obama.
Second, his economic plan will significantly increase the federal deficit. I don’t know where you are getting information that it will reduce the deficit. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center has stated Obama’s tax plan would add $3.4 trillion to the national debt, including interest, by 2018.
Next, Obama will continue to cater to the oil and energy companies. He voted for the 2006 Bush/Cheney energy bill which gave the oil and energy companies billions in taxpayers dollars. Obama is associated with oil and energy companies. He has voted against bills that correct environmental damage caused by energy companies.
You really need to get to know Obama’s background and stop reading from the script provided by his headquarters.
I haven’t seen a flip-flop. Obama has been very clear about his 16 months.
But let’s be honest; Obama’s economic plans may not be perfect, but it’s a damn sight better than McCain’s.
I know that “Vote for the lesser of two evils” is not a ringing endorsement, but there’s one not-so-good option and one terrible one, and again, my advice is: vote for the better one, even if it’s not the best, or don’t vote at all, or vote for a third option via write-in.
But willfully voting for the worst option is just really really hard to justify to me.
“I haven’t seen a flip-flop. Obama has been very clear about his 16 months.”
You’re a HOPIUM HUFFER.
No doubt you’d find it hard to “justify” not voting for your Obamessiah. You have blinders on and have joined the cult.
Tell Donna to shove her talking point of “not voting at all” right back up her ample backside. And take your fascist ideas to Iran, buddy. I’m voting.
Now you run along to the “We will not be silenced” website and watch the documentary of your election thuggery.
And don’t come back here without an ABJECT APOLOGY and MEA CULPA.
Hang on. I’ve been polite; I never said it was impossible to justify, I just have a different set of priorities.
I don’t see why you can be an unapologetic asshole and call me a fascist, but it’s somehow out of bounds for me to describe my thought process on the situation. I never told you not to vote; I said that I don’t see how a vote for McCain adequately expresses your self-professed principles, and offered alternatives that reinforce your professed values and still avoid helping Obama. Voting for McCain not only hurts Obama, it also hurts your cause, which is why I find it hard to justify; not impossible, just hard.
So no, I won’t apologize to someone calling me a fascist with no basis. I’ve called no one any names, nor have I insulted anyone’s positions; I’ve discussed them.
And finally: you haven’t refuted my point that Obama laid out a timetable of sixteen months and stuck to it, which is the opposite of a flip-flop. Calling me names isn’t an argument; it’s childish.
Of course anyone who disagrees with you must be silenced. Grow up and say something worth listening to.
I am not an Obama supporter but I will not aplologize for thinking about the issues. I will not vote for McCain just because I want to stick it to Obama. How silly. This is not about Donna Brazile. This is about the future of our country and I will not be a party to 4 more Bush years under McCain.
I found the article and read it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/09/AR2008080901860_pf.html
The problem with the article is that it is comparing what happens under the Obama Plan with what happens under current law.
Under current law, all of the Bush tax cuts simply expire and are replaced by nothing. So, if you compare the Obama plan with that, the Obama plan costs more.
The Brookings comparison, however, is between the Obama Plan and the McCain Plan.
John McCain does not intend to let current law go into effect. He intends to replace the Bush Plan with the McCain Plan.
Those are the two things being compared. When they are, the McCain plan is seen to be far more expensive.
Obama’s plan continues to use the Bush bookkeeping and not current law. The article clearly points out that Obama is continuing to keep Bush’s bookkeeping.
Under current law, all tax cuts expire and the deficit disappears completely, the article continues. The article clearly states Obama only wants to cut some of Bush’s tax cuts.
Obama wants to use the the tax cut funds to pay for new programs rather than pay down the deficit. The article continues,
Additionally,
Obama’s spending is a continuation of Bush’s economic policies.
OK, maybe I’m confused.
How does the McCain Tax Cut Plan compare with current law?
Obama’s Tax Cut Plan is clearly cheaper than McCain’s.
The argument is that Obama’s is worse because he’s just going to fritter away the savings somewhere else, while McCain will propose no new programs?
Generally:
Some other items include:
Requiring a 3/5 majority of Congress to raise taxes;
Repeal the AMT;
Make permanent the R&D tax credit;
Ban internet taxes; and
Establish tradable allowances to limit greenhouse gas emissions.
McCain’s tax plan will promote business by providing incentives for businesses to grow, hire more people in this country, and for small businesses to get established.
Seems to me that if we’re running ruinous federal deficits–which we obviously are–and we want to stop that, we’ve either got to significantly cut spending somewhere, or significantly raise taxes somewhere. Probably some combination of both.
McCain makes vague references to “cutting wasteful spending”. OK. WHERE? His approach to foreign policy is obviously going to result in big increases in defense spending, which are already pushing us toward bankruptcy. We’re fighting two wars at present on borrowed money. He wants to eliminate the federal gas tax. That means we’ve got to get highway funds from somewhere else. Our infrastructure is already falling apart, right?
Then John proposes a tax cut plan that funnels huge cuts to the top of the income scale and token savings to everyone else–greatly reducing federal revenues in the process.
This is an “economic recovery plan” built on arithmetic that only adds up to total disaster.
BTW—If we want to stimulate the economy, the proper place for hefty tax cuts would be the middle class and the working class–not the wealthy.
The middle class and the blue-collar working class consititue the bulk of our society’s consumers of basic goods and services. If we let them keep more of their money, they’ll buy more of the things business needs to sell.
A healthy economy isn’t based upon the consumption of luxury goods by the wealthy. Giving people earning $2.7 million-and-up a year new tax cuts averaging $269,364 a year (the McCain Plan) doesn’t mean they’re all going to run out and start new business enterprises. Distribute that same money to the middle and working classes, and they’ll buy the things that keep the economic wheels turning.
Bush apparently has some vague understanding of who actually makes the economy roll along. That was the reason for his economic stimulus give-aways. That plan ultimately doesn’t work because they just borrowed and printed up extra money to fund it–an inflationary move, if ever there was one.
McCain can propose out his own ass all day and all night.
Who AUTHORIZES? HMMMMM??
CONGRESS does.
No money gets spent on anything, from paperclips to bullets, without CONGRESS saying “OK.”
The President does not “make” law, either.
CONGRESS does.
Learn how government works before you panic.
A Democratic Congress, kissing the round brown ass of an egomaniacal Democratic President, is a more dangerous brew than a Democratic Congress riding herd on the ambitions of a Republican President.
Tension breeds compromise. And compromise is called for in the next four years.
REPLY TO ANDREW…YOU SAY COUNTER TO dEMOCRATIC VALUES..
My question for you..would those democratic values be stealing 2 million votes..because one of those votes was mine..one was my husbands who served this nation..and one of those votes was my sons…so are you giving my values away..by calling the theft of our votes democratic values..they are not values i respect or hold dear or in honor any longer.
Or are those democratic values the stealing of votes in a caucus state where people who served this nation in war were too ill to go to a caucus and have their voices heard??????? See i worked in Iowa and i went door to door and i met a Vietnam vet who has cancer from agent orange who could not caucus because his immune system is too compromised and he could nit be in a group of people..or perhaps the lady i met who had a child with severe down sydrome..who could not go and caucus because she had no one to care for her child.
Or would those democratic values be the two busses i saw come to a lilly white rural retirement community i was a co-captain of in Iowa for a caucus ..and the bus was filled with AA college age kids all with the same white Ipod around their necks ..and their leader kept them in the school hallway so the real residents of the area could not see these kids and object too loudly when their caucus was stolen??????..Gee and to think ..a couple of those kids told me they got a nice hotel room and that shiny new Ipod..
Would those be the democratic Values you are talking about??????
With those kinds of values..thank you very much..but i pass on them!
Obama will never ever ever ever get my vote. Those are democratic values i find worse than disgusting. I find them criminal.
My question for you..would those democratic values be stealing 2 million votes..because one of those votes was mine..one was my husbands who served this nation..and one of those votes was my sons…so are you giving my values away..by calling the theft of our votes democratic values..they are not values i respect or hold dear or in honor any longer.
That is a Democratic value, yes.
But let me be honest. There is no evidence that the votes were stolen, nor is there basis for that claim in the most literal sense. Nor is Obama to blame; the DNC rules allow each state to set the means by which is apportions its delegates, but not the timing, in order to prevent large states from being the only states that matter in the selection of the candidate.
The first proposed solution, to allow the MI and FL votes to stand unmodified, simply doesn’t work in representing the will of the people; Obama’s name simply was not on the ballot in MI. Say what you will, a vote that doesn’t have every candidate’s name on the ballot is not a democratic one. It can’t be argued otherwise. Subsequent solutions obviously only inflamed tempers, but the fault lies with two factions: the Democrats in charge of setting the early dates in MI and FL. All of this could have been avoided entirely if the rules had been followed, rules that every campaign signed onto with plenty of time in advance.
MI and FL have since been fully seated at the behest of Obama’s people.
So, while the situations of MI and FL are clearly disappointing, I really can’t see that it can be the only factor here, when honestly, everything is on the line. When I say Democratic values, I really do mean the plural; a progressive Supreme Court, Health care, Social programs, fairer taxes, a less belligerent foreign policy, all of it.
Procedural problems can be corrected; for example, the Strange Bedfellows alliance is dedicated to challenging non-progressive Democrats in the House to avoid the continual re-election of DINOs in Congress. I imagine similar initiatives can be worked over in the DNC, but all of that requires being something more than a straight antagonist.
I’m not trying to minimize the concern, but when I weigh the balance of the one concern against so many others, I can’t see how it doesn’t at least come to even.
Obama is a DINO.
Obama is indeed not as liberal as some Democrats, but he is more liberal than the majority of the Senate and his positions are definitely within the range of opinions even a doctrinaire Democrat could agree with; a pregressive tax policy, freedom of choice for women, egalitarian hiring policies, social assistance for continuing education, anti-war policy and universal health care are among these positions.
He’s not a dyed-in-the-wool Liberal, but he is a Democrat.
Too bad he doesn’t support freedom of choice for voters or practice this fabled egalitarian hiring. He does not support UHC, either.
Bullshit, Andrew. Obama CHOSE to remove his name from Michigan (something he DIDN’T do in Florida).
By Obama’s DELIBERATE choice in removing his name in Michigan, HE was the one who deprived his potential supporters of the option to choose him as their candidate. Don’t forget that Obama (and the other candidates who removed their names) urged supporters to vote “undecided”. Under DNC policy, delegates ARE awarded to “undecided” based on the percentage of undecided votes cast. Those undecided delegates are free to cast their votes for whatever candidate they choose AT THE CONVENTION.
Now, when the DNC’s rules committee met at the end of May to determine the Michigan and Florida “problem”, the DNC went BEYOND what is allowed UNDER THE RULES. The committee had NO justification for STEALING delegates from Hillary and awarding them to Obama (just as they had no justification for awarding delegates representing “undecided” voters to Obama en masse).
And, furthermore, go back and look at those “RULES” that you refer to. Yes, Florida and Michigan moved their primaries contrary to the dates set by theDNC (and the RNC, by the way). But, so did Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina.
This was the OFFICIAL primary/caucus schedule the Democrats accepted on August 19, 2006:
The new schedule is as follows:
Iowa holds the first-in-the-nation caucus on January 14.
New Hampshire holds the first-in-the-nation primary on January 22.
Nevada conducts a caucus between Iowa and New Hampshire on Saturday, January 19.
South Carolina holds a primary 1 week after the New Hampshire primary on Tuesday, January 29
The regular window will open for all other states on the first Tuesday in February — February 5, 2008.
(info from http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/08/highlights_of_t.php )
Now, as we all remember, these were the ACTUAL dates that the states held their primaries/caucuses:
Iowa–January 3 (a full 11 days before the “rules” allowed)
New Hampshire–January 8 (a full 14 days before the “rules” allowed)
Nevada–January 19 (just as the “rules” said)
South Carolina–January 26 (3 days before the “rules” allowed)
Why then did THREE states get to move THEIR primaries/caucuses ahead of schedule with NO PENALTIES incurred by the DNC while Michigan and Florida were both stripped of half their delegates? Donna Brazile made that inane comment about the concern over holding a primary or caucus before Christmas as her rationale for the unjust penalties applied to Michigan and Florida but NO ONE in the media called her on the hypocrisy of allowing three other states to jump ahead (South Carolina, in fact, moved from a Tuesday to the previous Saturday–another violation when the “rules” only authorized a TUESDAY–in no small part to avoid competing with Florida for the election newes coverage; no one would have cared about little South Carolina if powerhouse Florida was voting on the same day).
As to the seating of Florida and Michigan “at the behest of Obama’s people”, where was Obama back in May when the Rules Committee was voting on the matter? I’ll tell you where. They were at the Rules Committee staunchly demanding that “the rules” be followed (and givimg Obama undue delegates). When HILLARY offered to pay for both states to hold re-votes, OBAMA’S PEOPLE refused to allow “the One” to take part, holding out either for a caucus or the Rules Committee to make its “final” decision.
Obama is a horrible choice for ANYONE who considers himself/herself to be a REAL progressive. Obama hasn’t shown the first sign of REAL progressive leadership–not since election to the Senate and most certainly NOT in this campaign season. He’s an old-school Chicago politician through and through and I wouldn’t even vote for Obama to be garbage collector after what I’ve seen and heard this primary campaign season.
I’ve loathed George Bush since he was appointed by the Supreme Court and I cannot see that Barack Obama will be any better as President. I knew how bad Bush would be (I’d read Molly Ivins’ many warnings about Dubya and, sad to say, she was right on the money about Bush) and I see Obama being just as bad.
For crying out loud, the very same news media that rah-rahed the Bushies’ war in Iraq are the same batch who’ve been deepest in the Obama pocket, yet too many of those who’ve decried the media’s blind cheerleading for Dubya have completely ignored the media’s blind support of Obama.
You destroyed your own argument with this statement:
“Voting Hillary as a write-in candidate would express a massive groundswell of support for her the Obama administration couldn’t ignore.”
Earth to Andrew:
He is IGNORING these 18 million now! Ya think once he’s president, has achieved his goal, he’s going to give us the time of day? Why would he? He won without us. There’s no point.
I’m voting for McCain. I have faith in the Checks & Balances the Constitution set up.
Look… it’s the Democratic Party’s fault. They put up someone with zero credentials next to someone who does. There’s too much guess work involved with 0bama. He doesn’t inspire confidence. He’s shallow and shifty and not forthcoming.
If he wanted to wake up tomorrow with a new slate, he should start by showing us his real Birth Certificate, he college transcripts, or his medical records.
But he won’t do that….. Why?
He has too much to hide.
Roughly 50% of Hillary supporters in the Primary have turned to support for Obama according to most opinion polls I’ve seen; this would be in accordance with his ~75% support from self-described Democrats.
That would make 9 million, not 18 million. Not a small number, but not 18 million.
Further, I see no evidence that Obama is “ignoring” Hillary supporters; he is actively courting them, resotring MI and FL’s delegates; helping retire her debt; accepting her support; not placing her in a dead-end VP position (a Senator has more power to help the people of the country than a VP in the system of “checks and balances” you cite).
I’m voting for McCain. I have faith in the Checks & Balances the Constitution set up.
I’m sorry, but you have eight years of evidence that neither a Republican or a Democratic Congress is willing to or desires to check a Republican Administration, even one as awful as Bush’s.
Citing checks & balances doesn’t strike me as rational at this point; there’s simply no evidence that Congress has any will to.
If he wanted to wake up tomorrow with a new slate, he should start by showing us his real Birth Certificate, he college transcripts, or his medical records.
I’m confused. The birth certificate he released has been pored over by experts and nothing dispositive has been found; meanwhile, both the Hawaii records offices and Factcheck.org (a very reliable source) have both confirmed that it is real. His college transcripts have been released. I don’t know about his medical records, but I’m not sure what they could possibly show; you can’t perform a medical test for “Indonesian” or “Not a Citizen” or “Islamic”. What could be in a medical record that would disqualify him aside from and major untreatable illness with a prognosis of a few month, but leaves him entirely capable of running a sustained, high-energy months-long campaign?
He is ignoring Hillary’s supporters.
The only reason we have survived at all under Bush/Cheney is because of the US Constitution and the Checks & Balances.
Ya think 0bama’s going to roll back all the Executive Privileges that Bush put into play?
I don’t.
And what say you about the threats against people who don’t support 0bama.
BTW, I’m AA. And it’s insulting to hear you spew that stupid crap about his medical records won’t show if he’s Indonesian or Islamic. How stupid are you? McCain produced his records. Why won’t 0bama? Since there’s nothing to hide, then produce. Dukakis didn’t produce his records either. We all know how that worked out for him.
The Birth Certificate, show us the original. Period! Again, he wants to be elected POTUS! I have no problem showing mine and nobody’s asked.
Step away from the kool-aid. 0bama’s got a lot of unresolved issues. A WHOLE LOT!
And calling people racists at the expense of the AA community won’t win you any points with me, pal.
I’m sick of you white liberals and that bullshit. 0bama has demeaned the real issue of racism during this election cycle. And I will never forgive him for it.
NEVER!!!!!
Again, what could a medical record possibly show that would disqualify him?
I was only commenting on the juxtaposition of the COLB controversy (an attempt to show Obama is not an American), his College records (requested in suspicion that he wrote anti-American essays in school), and his medical records (Since I have no idea what they could possibly show)
I never called you a racist. I never even suggested. I asked exactly what the medical records had to do with his COLB and college records, since I am aware of why *they* were requested and followed the ginned up “controversy” on each of them.
“If you have nothing to hide, pony up” is not an argument.
Andrew, you continue showing your total ignorance and willingness to kiss Obama’s ass.
I’m sorry, but you have eight years of evidence that neither a Republican or a Democratic Congress is willing to or desires to check a Republican Administration, even one as awful as Bush’s.
Citing checks & balances doesn’t strike me as rational at this point; there’s simply no evidence that Congress has any will to.
Are you including Barack Obama’s vote FOR the Bush Administration’s “compromise” on FISA to allow telecom immunity in this lack of willingness on the part of Congress to go against a President?
If you are, you’ve just proved that Obama cannot be trusted to do what’s best for this country. If you aren’t, then you’re cherry-picking issues to justify your prObama stance.
I have criticized Obama for his FISA vote repeatedly. However, I will point out that Obama is a Senator, not a Congressman, so his vote is NOT indicative of Congress’ will specifically.
It is one position among many, and I feel he falls on the proper side in the majority of them.
Incidentally, McCain ALSO voted for the FISA reform, and so it’s not as though EITHER candidate is going to be reliable in that regard. So McCain, according to you, can’t be trusted either.
The difference is this: I feel McCain is wrong on nearly everything. From reporductive rights to gender equality to war issues to national security to the economy to the environment right up to the anti-science, McCain represents everything awful the last eight years stood for under Bush.
That makes the choice obvious, for me. Obama might not be perfect, but no candidate is – not even Hillary. I criticized her stance on the War, for example, as I cast a critical eye on Biden’s, now.
The lack of perfection in a Democratic candidate is not enough of a reason for me to vote against every Democratic principle there is by voting for McCain.
McCain is imperfect. Obama is corrupt. There is a big difference between the two.
Well your faith is misplaced. Look at how well the checks and balances have worked for the last 8 years. The constitutuon has been trampled and you trust that McCain will follow the constitution? Do I really care about his college transcripts or his medical records? Who cares?
His birth cert is out there fake or not. It has been vetted. Move on. Back to some serious dicsussions.
Oh, shut up.
Voting for Barack Obama will be cutting my THROAT.
I really don’t see how.
What specific policy position of Obama’s is worse than McCain? Even his worst decision, to vote for the abominable FISA reform, is harmonious with McCain’s; every single other policy position seems, if not objectively better, then more aligned with Democratic principles.
If you gave me a specific position you feel Obama would be “cutting your throat on”, I might understand; but just typing it in all-caps isn’t really a convincing argument.
I guess it depends on which day and policy you are asking about because Obama has changed his positions and website pages so many times to reflect changed positions it’s difficult to know exactly where he stands.
But let’s take the following statement he made:
The Second Amendment to the Constitution covers this issue already.
Isn’t this the purpose for the National Guard? While some conservatives argue the militia mentioned in the Second Amendment are separate from the National Guard, the purpose for the NG, as created under the Dick Act, was to help states in times of emergencies and to protect the country as a whole in time of federal emergencies.
So what other type of civilian national force is Obama referring to?
Actual militias working the streets?
And, what will be the cost for a civilian national force?
I’m not aware McCain is proposing a civilian national force.
Okay, I’m not sure what you’re saying.
How is Obama’s endorsement of the National Guard instead of Armed Forces regulars going to “cut your throat?”
I don’t see any indication in the quote you provided that Obama is arguing for setting up Brownshirts or something like that.
Can’t anyone here have a discussion that doesn’t evolve into name calling? God forbid anyone has a different view on things. How about using some critical thinking skills? I am not an Obamabot. I am a Hilary supporter.
If someone doesn’t say nasty things about Obama, you automatically assume they support him? That makes sense. Not.
Another word for musings is using critical thinking skills. It does no good to bash people because they do not bash Obama. I for one like to hear all sides. It is what makes us human beings. I am not going to be told to hate Obama or to like him. I can take it all in and make up my own mind. I read all info from all sites. Good, bad and indifferent.
No way would I keep reading this blog if you endorse
obama, I don’t like what I’m hearing at all
I’d probably go if this blog became anti-McCain
that would be stumping for Obama
Agreed.
agreed!!!
Agree.
agreed. No more funny from jeremiah.
Sigh. The worst news I’ve heard all day. Your posts crack me up, Jeremiah.
Totally.
There’s no middle ground on this.
This blog is made up of people from all walks of life. It is a site that is dedicated to “issues about our security”. It was not intedned to be a bash Obama website. But that is how it has evolved. I welcome discussions that make us think.
If all you want to hear is anti Obama, then you are just as ridiculous as the pro Obamabots. There is a balance.
This site has pro and con on both sides and that is how it should be. It sparks discussion and allows people to share their views.
They would lose all credibility if they played that game.
yep
This is the first blog I really opened up on. But after reading the last thread and now this one almost all the way through, all the posts to them. The welcoming of Obama supporters. I’m wondering if it’s becoming a pro-Obama blog. The Republicans would probably eat me alive if I posted on their blogs. I belong to too many humanitarian groups. Animal rights groups(not PETA) and environmental groups. So I guess if this is the new theme, I’ll just keep an eye on Patsy’s blog, a few others and go back to my own little world. I cannot support Obama.
McCain may not be the best choice, but he is 100% better of a choice over Obama and I know he loves this country. I hear enough anti McCain stuff here in my house. My husband is Republican and he says he’s going to plug his nose and vote for McCain because the alternative would be devestating.
It’s funny though he didn’t want McCain because he was asked in the last election to run with Kerry. He thinks McCain is way too liberal and is only trying to woo over the conservatives. That he’ll go right back to being moderate liberal McCain the Maverick if he wins. The exact opposite of what I’m now hearing/reading here.
Obama in the White House (except maybe as a visitor) is the one thing that must not happen. If somebody has a way of insuring this that does not involve voting for McCain, I am listening.
yep, me too
I would not even invite Obama to the White House as a visitor. Being friends with Ayers should preclude him from an invitation.
There’s an old phrase that comes to mind: sh*t or get off the pot. At some point you have to make a choice, otherwise you suffer paralysis from analysis.
I am an American first, country before party. I will never vote for Obama on any ticket. So to be sure this ass never gets near the White House I am voting for McCain. I don’t agree with him on everything either but he is a patriot and unlike Obama and his ilk, McCain loves this country. I have voted straight democrat for 41 years. I am voting straight republican this year for the first time and so are all my family (242 members). Obama is the most dangerous candidate to ever run for any elected office let along the POTUS.
Disagree heartily. Bush is and will always be the biggest disaster this country has ever had.
Thanks Larry but I feel that the negatives we may have in McCain are minuscule and trivial in comparison to the negatives that Øbama has shown and I’m certain that many more of his negatives will be revealed before the GE.
McCain is a war hero and loves his country
Øbama is a Marxist and has shown -0 love for this country
When I strip it all down this is what I’m left with. I own my vote, will not throw it away by not voting, will not vote 3rd party as that’s equal to throwing my vote away also…and will definitively not vote for Øbama!
McCain ‘08
Hillary ‘12
I’m sorry I meant SusanUnPC not Larry
Although I respect your post and your opinion I know enough about barky to know I would never cast my vote for him. He is bad for our country in every way. He has shown us his judgement and his character. Horrid. I don’t want another President who is a puppet and Vice President who is pulling the strings. It sets a horrible precedant for the future.
The reality is we have two choices, and if I’m not voting for Barky who’s left? This is the position the DNC has put all of us in. It’s not a conflict, it’s life. Whatever you can say about either candidate, you have to ask yourself who has exhibited more strength of character in his profession? I think anyone without a prejudice for either candidate would easily answer Mccain. I have seen him do this, thus the venom from the far right directed at Senator Mccain. I have yet to see Barky take a stand for anyone but himself and vote the easy way out.
I do not want an MTV reality show President. I want a president who can speak intelligently, without stuttering and has a grasp of the govt and foreign policy.
We don’t even need to go into all the other issues his candidacy presented this primary season.
I don’t think people have analyzed an Obama presidency very well at all. Obama is extremely weak that is why he selected Biden who had to agree to go on the ticket since he feels he will be calling most of the shots.
Obama is a weak and lazy man who has never worked very dilegently or successfully at any job he has ever had. He has a history of drug abuse and he seems to make light of it. I think Obama is satified with just having the position as president and not actually performing the duties. Others are waiting in the wings like Sharpton and nobody seems to be addressing this. With 99% of the black vote to Obama, the blacks have high expectations and Sharpton will be leading their charge. Don’t forget MicHELLe and other radical groups that will be tugging at the puppet’s strings. Expect Obama to fill cabinet positions with people of radical views like Ayers but not as well known.
Just because McCain served in the military and was a POW does not make him fit to be Commander in Chief. Just what this country needs, a bomb bomb Iran mentality and a military draft. That is what will happen under a McCain Presidency. I am not willing to have my children die for some doddering old man who doesn’t even know how many houses he owns. Yeah he can relate to middle America. I am also not willing to be a part of the Supreme court becoming a wing of the GOP and pushing their agenda. No way.
No vote for Obama/Biden.
Other choices:
Nader
McKinney
McCain
I think I’ll pick McCain…
I like McKinney, have from the git-go and if the situation wasn’t so dire I would vote for her, but O must be defeated and the more I see McCain the more I can call him Mr. President with confidence. He comes across with authority and presidential bearing; we’ll be safe for 4 years, then Hillary.
There is no point in knocking McCain since he is the only one anymore standing in Obama’s way. McCain is trying to defeat evil (Obama) and he has my full support in this effort.
Some of you on here that won’t vote for McCain sound like the extreme right that won’t vote for him if he doesn’t pick a pro-life VP. That is what is wrong with this country. McCain has worked across the aisle many more times than Obama has ever thought of doing. So you don’t agree with everything McCain does. Neither do I, but I also know that this country needs to be governed down the middle, not from the left or from the right. That means that there is not one candidate that will fit your bill. And if you truly believe that voting 3rd party will do you any good, then do it. But I’m afraid it will give Obama the advantage and then all the soothing of your soul won’t matter. There were things I didn’t like about Hillary, but I was still willing to vote for her. I have found nothing about Obama that I can vote for. There are some of you who say that he is close to Hillary on issues, but the truth is he doesn’t have the experience and he doesn’t keep his word. My God, you guys have posted site after site, after story about what this guy has done and not done. Close to Hillary’s issues, well maybe in words, but certainly not in deeds.
This is the “it’s all about me” approach to voting in Presidential elections. I guess it’s so important to egocentric individuals to stay ideologically “pure”…and throw the security of their country away in the process.
I’ve heard right wingers say: I can’t vote for McCain and face myself in the mirror the next day.
To which I reply: It’s not just about you. Your fellow citizens need a leader they can count on.
I would never “tell” anyone who to vote for but it appears some will “blackmail” people into voting. Who is the racist in this statement below? I was reading this on the politico comments on the article about Ed Rendells’s statement about the media and “The One”:
And please stop this garbage about Hillary taking the Nominee please. Its not going to happen. Her supporters better catch a clue and fast cause you are dooming Hillary Clinton’s political career. I’m already hearing on Black Social Networking sites that If Obama loses The Black voters block are going to hold Hillary and her supporters responsible. She has to be reelected to the senate before she can rerun for 2012 and she rode the wave of African American support to get her Senate seat the first time. Blacks will boycott her and it will be pretty difficult to run for a nominee without a job.
Posted By: Obama Guy | August 24, 2008 at 05:13 PM
——
So, Okay, Blacks – start your own party and while you are at it make Donna Brazile and Rev. Wright the head of the rules committe cuz you no as Donna’s mama says — The rules the rules
Asses the party is fractured and you face it WE WILL NEVER VOTE FOR YOU MESSIAH WHETHER THIS BLOG OR ANY OTHER BLOG ENDORSES HIM.
SO YOU GET OVER IT. This racist shit is going to backfire big time.
NO OBAMA
MCCAIN 2008 OR UNTIL HILLARY RISES
Well, I’m a POC and I would still vote for her. Get over yourself. And quit with the threats.
OHIO,
I am not the one who wrote the threat — I am reporting it as I read it on Politico.
NO OBAMA
MCCAIN 2008 OR UNTIL HILLARY RISES
I know, I’m sorry if it sounded like I thought it was you, I was just making a statement. Too late at night for me. Have to get up and go to work. So again, I’m sorry for the misunderstanding.
Ohio,
No problem. Hope you have a good sleep and a great day tomorrow.
NO OBAMA
MCCAIN 2008 OR UNTIL HILLARY RISES
Threats by any group will backfire. The threats against Hillary and her supporters helped to created PUMA.
No Obama.
Country before political party.
Hillary has enough votes in NYS not to need the AA community’s vote. And if my community’s stupid enough not to vote for her, then they’ll watch the Latino community get all the benefits because they will vote for her.
The upstaters love her. The white women here who are PUMAS do, too. And mark my words, there will be enough white men disenchanted from 0bama by the time she’s up for re-election. Besides, didn’t the 0bamabots threaten John Lewis with running someone against him if he didn’t come out and support 0bama and even after he did, they still ran someone against him.
These people have no loyalties. They are a breed apart. And frankly, I don’t roll that way.
It’s the AA community who needs to buy a clue. Michelle LIED about Bill Clinton’s remarks. Go to youtube and find the video, take the kool-aid out of your ears and listen. He never said what she accused him of.
AAs have allowed themselves to be pawns in this affair and it’s going to backfire big time.
They are throwing the baby out with the bathwater to get a biracial man elected who has no ties to the AA community. The only AAs he’s related to are the little girls he sired. Plus, he’s done absolutely zilch for AAs as an elected official in Illinois state politics and we won’t even discuss his time in the US Senate.
This is another reason I won’t vote for him. He used AAs as his personal little sacrificial lambs to get elected. And when it’s over and done with we will have nothing.
Way to go Barry Soetoro!!!!
Preach!
Too many in our community don’t have a damned clue as far as Obama is concerned.
They are also blind to the fact that Hillary actually won the popular vote during the primary – in SPITE of the fact that most AAs voted for Obama! She didn’t even need the majority of our votes to do that! Yet Hillary still continued to campaign for our votes and showed love and respect for us! Obama didn’t do that AT ALL! He took the AA vote for granted!
Truth is, if it wern’t for lying, cheating, unprincipled scum in the DNC and crooked, greedy delegates, Obama wouldn’t even BE the presumptuous nominee right now!! So Black Obama supporters like that idiot who wrote this crap….
…better wake the f— up and start humbling themselves and stop trying to threaten and blackmail voters. They don’t want to go there. Or they will find themselves ass-out into the cold.
Susan as for what you sight here are the problems. You list taxes and immigration seemingly as issues he wanted to make the base happy about and not about refinement or growing. Taxes he has said he was wrong about. Immigration he said the people want borders first. McCain also said way back when that he could accept Bush’s tax cuts IF spending was lowered. I guess he forgot the drunk monkey cage known as congress he works in if he thought that was going to happen.
Funny thing about the 74 list is alot of those are not flip flops but partisan shots at McCain. Take the “everyone deserves a trail” part (this actually takes care of parts 2+3). Because he supported the military commissions act (least I think that was it) he did believe that they deserved SOME sort of trial, a military tribunal is a type of trial. The supposed flip flop is that he does not believe they have the exact same rights as US citizens. Eichman did not get Habeas rights which was McCain’s point.
Also he did not flip flop on waterboarding as torture. The detainee treatment act (which was known then as the McCain amendment) outlawed ANY U.S personnel from waterboarding a suspect. Thats ANY as in military OR CIA. His opposition in feb of 2008 was A) it was redundant as waterboarding was already outlawed and B) does not think the CIA should go by a publicly available manual. Why? Well just think, what type of people will the CIA have in custody (for the most part)? Your average terrorist stooge who’s maybe been with Al-Qaeda 2 months? Not really, thats who the military will most likely pick up. The CIA most likely will have higher up people who have had some training in resisting interrogations (Its not like AQ is going to train suicide bombers this way), so why give them the manual to train from?
The Russian one relies on a McCain adviser who is unnamed so of course unsourceable (probably not a word there, oh well). Has McCain himself ever taken back his talk on Russia? And how can you call it a flip flop when you qoute being hard on Russia and then qoute him again on being hard on Russia?
Guantanamo Bay same thing. It quotes him as saying that the prisoners need to be dealt with first before closing the prison (I somehow doubt even Obama is in favor of closing the entire base down), yet doesn’t say to keep the prison open beyond that.
So thats just off the top of the list. The sad thing is the list mostly seems to refer back to the same blog, so its not as if the writer will contradict himself. So go through the list if you want, but read for yourself, educate yourself. Don’t take one blogs word, take mine (just kidding).
And keep praying for that magical McCain/Clinton 08 ticket, if only for the look on Barry’s face when its announced.
“Let’s be an example OF her FOR her.”
Sorry, I have an aversion of cults
What the hell is cultish about that? It exhibits independent thinking.
My case for voting McCain, McCain respects Hillary and Admires her as a colleague and a friend. I believe because of their equal respect that Hillary would beable to pass a lot of bills in a McCain administration.
Under Obama it won’t happen, he despise her for uncovering he wasn’t the intellect he lead the voters to believe or the great orator he was teleprompter dependent. So any bill she would Legislate he would shoot down, or not let her get credit for it. Why would I want to put her thur that?.
McCain will be a 1 term president and under that one term Hillary could get a lot down for the country and be prepared for 2012.
OH EXCELLENT POINT!
If McCain doesn’t win, Hillary may be pushed out of office by blocking her legislation!
Not if we each write our elected officials with this warning:
We’ll be watching!!!
And C-Span 2 makes it so easy.
Two can play this game.
I don’t have the knowledge to go over every item on the McCain flip-flop list, but I would distinguish between harmless flips on matters where one’s opinion should change when the facts change v. flips on matter of principle.
Harmless:
a) Taxes. The decision to maintain, raise or lower taxes depends on the state of the economy. It’s consistent to oppose a tax cut, and then advocate the same cut to spur productivity to get us out of a recession.
b) Off-shore drilling. The Cost-benefit analysis changes with gas at $4 or more per gallon, and with the technological advances in environmentally safer drilling.
Harmful:
Abortion. Whether one is pro-life or pro-choice, the facts have not changed, so a flip-flip here is damaging.
Extremely Harmful-Violation of Civil Rights:
Obama flip-flops on FISA:
From Obama’s Senate office-Dec. 2007:
Obama unequivocally opposes giving retroactive immunity to telecommunication companies and cosponsored Senator Dodd’s efforts to remove that provision from the FISA bill. Granting such immunity undermines the constitutional protections Americans trust the Congress to protect. Obama supports a filibuster of this bill, and strongly urges others to do the same…. Obama will not be among those voting to end the filibuster.
July 2008:
Bowing to Bush’s demands, Obama voted in favor of a bill overhauling bitterly disputed rules on secret government eavesdropping and shielding telecommunications companies from lawsuits complaining they helped the U.S. spy on Americans.
Susan,
As a lifelong Democrat I fought for equality and fairness. The Obama campaign and the new Democratic Party did not show these traditional Democratic values during the primary and continues to show hatred toward people who have no intention of voting for an inexperienced junior Senator.
My country is more important than the Democratic Party. The differences you have identified in McCain’s positions were over a period of years. Obama has flip-flopped over a period of days and weeks.
I will not support Obama. I will not support a third candidate or write-in Hillary’s name. The only way to change the new Democratic Party is to make sure McCain is elected. Hopefully Hillary is not taking the same position of pushing her supporters into voting for either Obama, writing-in her name or voting for a third candidate. This would be very disappointing.
Country before political party.
Where to start with all this? Well, Susan, I know you are emotional right now over your friend’s death, but I’m not sure where all of this sudden McCain bashing is coming from. It’s like you are angry and, having spit a lot of venom towards Obama, you now need another target.
Please – take a break from blogging when you are overly emotional. No Quarter has already shot the “cause” in the foot over some overemotional stories in the past.
For me, the issue is quite clear – Obama stole the Democratic nomination, and the only way to protest is to vote for McCain to ensure Obama does not win. Period, end of story. Do you honestly think that if Obama wins he’s going to be a better president than McCain? Get real!
I don’t have a problem with this blog not endorsing McCain, because PUMAs have been branded closet Republicans for a while and it’s probably best we aren’t all endorsing McCain. (My Hillary blog DOES endorse McCain now, btw)…but if you start bashing McCain here to let Obama win by default, well, I will have to go elsewhere for my election news. That would be too much for me.
Mostly, you guys do a great job here. But sometimes you could do better to post LESS FREQUENTLY and keep on topic…and listen to your readers sometimes, not just your overheated emotions.
“For me, the issue is quite clear – Obama stole the Democratic nomination, and the only way to protest is to vote for McCain to ensure Obama does not win. Period, end of story. Do you honestly think that if Obama wins he’s going to be a better president than McCain? Get real!”
This comment pretty much says it all. 0bama a better president? Based on what? What paper trail has he left to make anyone believe that? What experience does he have? Oh yeah, the judgement meme. Well, the Surge is working!
I don’t care if NQ doesn’t endorse McCain. And, frankly, no amount of McCain bashing is going make me change my mind. 0bama with the aid of the DNC leadership, and the msm STOLE the election. He exploited the AA community and created a lot of animosity by playing the race card and he and his supporters are still playing it. When does it end???? Oh and the sexism.. Yeah there’s that.
Plus the lies, the lack of transparency, OMG… it just doesn’t end with this guy. How about his campaign ANNOUNCING TO THE WORLD that Hillary wasn’t even vetted. They weren’t even smart enough to keep that undercover. And let’s not forget the 3AM text message and not helping to retire Hillary’s debt.
And he’s going make a good president?
Don’t make me laugh!
He’s a petty, vindictive, small, narcissitic man. He doesn’t have the qualitities necessary for leadership.
Geez, I just described Bush.
Talk about 4 more years.
I have mostly considered “honoring” O by voting “present.” In other words, using one of his Chicago style voting tactics.
Lately, though, I remember Hillary (and Biden) saying someting to the effect that they thought they could work with McCain if he were President.
I also remember McCain’s sincere concern and disapproval over Castellanos calling Hillary a “white witch.”
McCain has many, many negatives–but I don’t see evidence of his bullying the voters.
I was sure we’d all be ruined by a second term of “W,” but somehow we survived. We can survive McCain until 2012 I think.
Still I wish I could again just once before I die vote FOR someone I really liked. I am fearful that will never happen again.
i really hope this blog doesn’t go the way of taylor marsh, because then i will have to leave it, as i did tm.
as many of us are going mccain, i would just like to see anti-bo articles. otherwise, goodbye.
Either Hillary becomes nominee this week or my support goes to McCain.
That being said, I would hope that McCain takes us into consideration when choosing his VP.
I am thinking one of the points Susan may be trying to make is that we want McCain to respect some of our concerns and like I just said above, take us into consideration. Correct me if I am wrong.
Right now especially this week the delegates need to truly understand that we will not vote Obama and that to ensure NObama NOvember, many will vote McCain.
I’ve taken a hard look, starting back in June when a Clinton presidency looked unlikely. I’ve looked and looked at candidates. I’ve researched them. I’ve thought and thought. It comes down to this, the choice as of tonight is between Senators McCain and Obama. I have the same feeling about Senator Obama that I had about President Bush. No good can come of an Obama Presidency. In the summer of 2000, I told people gas would be $4 a gallon before Bush left office if he won the election. I can’t see into the future. But I knew his presidency would bring $4 gallons of gas, war in Iraq, unemployment, small fifty, seventy year old family businesses closing, a health insurance crisis, an economy on life support and a deficit so high that digging out of the mess would be long and painful.
It seems like we can’t fall any lower, this has to be the bottom. With Senator Obama in the White House we’ll discover we’re no where near the bottom. I’m not sure anyone can clean up the mess the last eight years has brought us. I know Senator Obama can’t do it. His cronies will get rich and we’ll get poorer and accumulate more debt. The Chinese won’t need to invade us to control us.
I don’t know if Senators Clinton and McCain can make much of a dent into the mess we’ve gotten ourselves into. With either of them we may have four years of treading water. But it’s better than falling deeper. With either one of them, I think we could begin a slow ascent out of this mess.
It concerns me that the Supreme Court may become more conservative under a McCain presidency, Roe v. Wade may be threatened, health insurance for every American won’t be a priority, etc. After taking a hard look at Obama, I can’t say I have any trust that he’ll choose appointees for the Court who are moderate or liberal, that he’ll stop attacks on Roe v. Wade or that every American will have health insurance.
I’m voting for McCain. I think health insurance needs to be addressed, but if Congress would get it’s act together, we could have health insurance for every American. They don’t need an executive branch that is encouraging them to do something about it.
I’m not among the working class. I’m upper middle class with a law degree. I’m one of those people who is supposed to be fainting over Obama. These days I’m more concerned with inflation and if I’m going to be an able to afford to drive and eat two meals a day than I am about the privacy of my reproductive and constitutional rights. When we start digging out of the mess of the Bush presidency, I’ll once again vote for my idealogy. Until then, my bank account will make the choice and it chooses McCain.
Oops. Ideology, not idealogy.
Second to my bank account in my decision is I’m fed up with elections that are rigged. The last two were rigged. The Democratic Party rigged the primary. I’m not going to support a candidate that is a product of another rigging.
I research and put thought into my vote. To know that my vote may not count because a faction is busy rigging an election, even for a candidate I like – is against my values. Win or lose fairly, bend and break the rules and I’ll vote against my political ideology. I won’t reward election riggers. This isn’t a third world nation. This is the United States of America, our forefathers gave birth to a democracy that has thrived for 230 years. I won’t support a party that has decided the way to win an election is select a puppet, give him pretty speeches with words like hope and change while nefariously clearing the battlefield so his opponents can’t challenge him.
The right to vote and a fair election process is more important than future appointees to the Supreme Court, health insurance and reproductive rights. Toss in a candidate who shows absolutely no ability to lead the nation out of the crisis it is in and McCain looks like a wonderful candidate for president.
“Second to my bank account in my decision is I’m fed up with elections that are rigged. The last two were rigged. The Democratic Party rigged the primary. I’m not going to support a candidate that is a product of another rigging.
I research and put thought into my vote. To know that my vote may not count because a faction is busy rigging an election, even for a candidate I like – is against my values. Win or lose fairly, bend and break the rules and I’ll vote against my political ideology. I won’t reward election riggers. ”
Well, said, except this is reason #1 to never ever vote for Obama.
We can’t reward election-riggers.
The health insurance issue won’t be solved under 0bama either. You think the people backing him over Hillary are not the very people standing in the way of healthcare reform?
People grow up!!!
We don’t need a president to push for healthcare reform.
We need to push our Senators and Congresspersons. We need to talk back to our doctors instead of fawning over them during visits. We need to find a way to pressure the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.
When was the last time 0bama even mentioned healthcare reform in a specific context. He already doesn’t have a clue what to do.
And people are thinking about giving him power?
BTW, did Bill Bradley campaign as passionately for Al Gore as Hillary is doing for 0bama? Funny, I don’t remember that.
Screw these democrats. Time to teach them a lesson.
I can be just as vindictive as 0bama.
Frankly, even more.
Mimi: “The health insurance issue won’t be solved under 0bama either. You think the people backing him over Hillary are not the very people standing in the way of healthcare reform?”
I think if Obama is in the White House in January, he’ll forget all about health care reform. Any initiative taken by Congress on health care will eventually be blocked by Obama. Michele Obama’s program of removing the uninsured from the University of Chicago’s health system and placing them on other health care providers in that area of Chicago, shows health care for the lower and middle class isn’t a priority with the Obama team. What is a priority is making sure the corporations profit off of health care, not that you and me can get that kidney transplant or a Z-pack prescription for a sinus infection. The uninsured and under-insured will not find a friendly and competent health care system under an Obama administration, instead they’ll be scrounging for help with inferior health care providers or a generic bottle of Aspirin.
Look what he did in the Illinois Senate as the Chairman of the Health Committee. His wife steered poor people to inner-city clinics and sucked up to the big money – cancer patients. Her husband got her a raise. He worked with Blagovich and Rezko to buy committee votes. They were killing babies at Christ Hospital. Does this guy sound like he cares about getting healthcare for every American?
I totally agree.
We can push Congress by pushing as many republicans out the door as possible.
For how many consecutive years did the republicans have control of the House? That situation changed quite recently–January 2007–and during the short time since the new democratic majority has had to deal with obstructionist tactics in the House and an authoritarian republican president who simply ignores or signs his way around laws he disapproves of.
Hillary Clinton promoted meaningful health care reform when Bill was president. She took it up as a personal mission. Remember the multi-million dollar disinformation campaign that was mounted against her plan? It was a typical republican tactic: they promoted fears in the mind of the public–particularly the elderly–and deliberately wrecked the entire package. We eventually wound up with Medicare Part D–an enormously costly compromise that put vast amounts of public money into private pockets. The republicans shot down an ammendment that would have allowed the government to negotiate for the lowest pharmaceutical prices. What happened to the republicans’ supposed love of free-market forces there?
You will recall the republicans also did everything in their power to forbid Americans from purchasing lower cost pharmaceuticals from Canadian sources. Once again they waged a fear campaign, suggesting that the same meds from Canadian sources weren’t safe. The FDA had a little something to do with that assertion. Bush, you will recall, politicized that regulatory agency–along with most others. Cheap, high quality Canadian drugs were a menace. Since then, however, we’ve had phony meds entering U.S. market from China, slipping through the regulatory breaches that Bush built. Anyone see any inconsistency there?
Screw the democrats, however. Time to teach them a lesson!
Seriously… Who do you believe is more likely to promote meaningful healthcare reform? A republican president or a democrat? Who’s more likely to promote it in the House and Senate? Democrats like Hillary Clinton, or republicans? If you want to know the likely outcome of any particular mix, just study the recent past.
I disagree with many of McCain’s policies. However, I’m not sure which of Obama’s I agree with or disagree with because he keeps rapidly changing them all.
It comes down to the fact that if McCain is elected, I’ll know what to expect of the next four years, good and bad. I’ll know how to prepare, how to keep myself stable. I frankly don’t see my own day-to-day life changing all that much under a McCain presidency. And my life is OK. It could be better, but it’s OK.
With Obama, I don’t trust that guy for a minute. I don’t believe a word that comes out his mouth, when I can stand to listen, that is. Who knows what kind of trouble he can America into?
Beyond that, Obama’s a stinking, filthy, lying, inexperienced fraudster-thug, and to vote for him knowing that would be personally unconscionable. To vote for him KNOWING that he stole the nomination through caucus fraud and DNC manipulation and to vote for him KNOWING about his past and current shady associations, well, I’m sorry, that would be poor judgment on my part if I helped place him into the White House. I don’t reward thuggery. I don’t reward injustice.
I may not vote at all. I haven’t decided yet. But IF I vote in the presidential election, I will be voting for McCain. And that’s that. I don’t agree with McCain on a lot of things, but I do believe in the man’s integrity. I can’t say the same for Obama.
This is an excellent post. It proves the point that McCain has a track record, has experience, and we know where he stands.
Obama? Anybody care to guess? Maybe we could have a monkey throw darts at a Policy chart. I bet the monkey would be as accurate on Obama as any of our guesses.
Since others here have studioulsy pointed out, “a cockroach would make a better President than Obama”, I will stick with McCain for President.
McCain beats the cockroach for President every day.
If McCain could eat cockroaches to survive as a POW, he’ll eat that Obama roach in a heartbeat.
McCain has faults, but he ain’t no stinkin cockroach!
McCain ‘08
No Democratic Party supporter can ever take comments like yours seriously. Unfortunately, a number of Hillary supporters got in bed with the likes of you, through fronts such as PUMA. No more. Obama 08 &12. Republicans you are out for ages, we have Obama, Clinton will still be younger than McBush in 2016. Who do you have?
How can anyone forget such lovely comments as
or even better
Ex Puma,
You’re just a wishy washy parasite like the rest of your hate America crowd.
You will lose this election because those that decide elections want Pro American candidates.
Your scum messiah sat on his hands wishing for defeat while other great Americans got up and clapped the success of our troops.
Your time has come and gone.
Patriotism and pride for country are back!!
Iraq…the Brilliant Strategy!!!
Ha! Ha!
Anti-American scum bag
The Anti Americans are the Republicans. My Party never gave away my Country to the Chinese. How much does the US owe China now?
I never voted for a Party that sent Soldiers in to an illegal war. I never voted for a Party that claims to “support our troops” but has left our vets from those wars homeless (unless of course they marry billionaire show wives).
On everything from the rights of workers, women, International Politics, defense of the Constitution, the Republicans have been wrong over the last 8 years. They will pay a price much longer than 2 terms for that.
Obama 08 / 12
Clinton 16 / 20
So I guess your fine with America being defeated and humiliated in the world.
Obama wished defeat and still doesn’t recognize the success of the surge.
I was against the war originally and the result is an Obama candidacy.
However, things change on the ground and I now see the Iraq war as a Brilliant Strategy for stability of resources long term in the middle east.
McCain refuses to surrender and understands America’s long term interests.
You people just don’t get it!
If the United States loses it’s position in the world by the America haters like yourself you will be using leaves to wipe your ass someday.
The Vietnam War could easily be labeled an Illegal War by your standards. The only reason we went in was because a Government that wasnt Pro-America was taking over.
Almost 60,000 Americans died due to people like LBJ making lots of money off the blood of Americans.
Let us not kid ourselves both parties have their war mongerers. The Vietnam veterans came home to be spit on and treated poorly by supporters of the Democrat Party.
Niether party is innocent.
Vietnam was a success and a failure.
The success was preventing communisms advance into Singapore,Thailand and Malaysia.
The failure of Vietnam happened after we pulled out then you had the killing fields of Vietnam.
I meant the killing fields of Cambodia.
Obama and his followers wish for defeat in Iraq which would lead to the same genocide.
I agree. Once we engage in a war we need to see it through. It seems Americans tend to have no issue with War when we are kicking ass and all is going well.
When things arent so easy its suddenly a horrible decision etc.
Obama flat out said the Surge in iraq would make things 10 times worse then they were pre surge. Ae things perfect in iraq now? Of course not but they are certainly better than they were.
Pulling out without stability etc in place would be the real crime. We broke it and we need to fix it.
It is time for people to take responsability.
As a long time liberal Democrat I’m appalled at what
has happened to Hillary Clinton. Back in Jan. when
“they” our Democratic party was howling for Hillary
to drop out of the race in order for O to have a clear unopposed run I knew the party was corrupted.
My thought process was if not Hillary then who?
It struck me after watching a simple hour long TV biography of McCain. I went then
to the library to read some of the books he and others have written about his life and his feelings about his country. I feel after researching this man
and seeing him at a townhall mtg. that my “second choice” is a pretty damn good one.
What administration will work with Hillary more successfully and not be intimindated by her? I’m pretty confident a McCain administration would give her more opportunity to shine then a weak and paranoid Obama one.
We all understand why Clinton sticks with the Democratic Party, but it seems the same people don’t understand why McCain stuck with the Republicans after Bush made him eat sh*t. I do. After reading this article, I’m more convinced than every that McCain will make a fine president. It’s little acts that show the man. We all know that McCain is rich (his wife). Yet during his dark moments during the campaign, he flew SW airlines. McCain is not presumptuous, but a man who knows what has value. Go McCain.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080825/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_road_to_st_paul
First we get a message HERE that we shouldn’t dare SAY we will vote McCain because that might somehow EMBARRASS or DISRESPECT Hillary. I thought Hillary was FOR free speech?
Second – we get an anti-McCain article right after the welcome mat article is thrown out for Obamabots…
The writing on the wall here seems as large a grafitti to me.
Monet, “Until then, my bank account will make the choice and it chooses McCain.” I take it you don’t believe Jason Furman & Austan Goolsbee’s latest communique in the Wall Street Journal, that being Obama won’t raise taxes on cap gains, divs or interest on individuals making 200k a yr or less or on couples making 250K or less. And for this income group payroll taxes will stay the same & the 45% “permanent estate tax” will only be on estates in excess of 7 million. I keep wanting to believe it but given all the bs of the last yr to the opposite I’m havin’ a hard time. On the other side, McCain keeps jabberin’ about cutting “entitlements” (S.S. Medicare/Medicaid etc) Common sense tells me if he does that my federal tax may stay the same but my state, city, county & sales tax will rise to compensate. What say you Monet?
No, I don’t believe Furman and Goolsbee. I see me paying more taxes on my investment income, payroll taxes and if I have the misfortune to inherit an estate during an Obama presidency, if it’s over 3 million, I’m paying a hefty tax bill.
If I’m wrong and Furman and Goolsbee are correct, just how is Obama going to pay for anything? Starting with paying down the trillions of debt we have? He’s not going to, we’ll accumulate more debt. More debt will kill my bank account as effectively as more federal taxes.
I’d rather put my money on McCain and that Congress will keep his entitlement cutting concerning Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid in check and my state, city, county and sales tax won’t rise to a rate that I’ll be paying more than I would have if Obama had free rein with my bank account.
My knowledge of McCain indicates he will reach across the aisle, he will compromise. He will find alternatives that bring more positive benefits than negative impacts to the general population. My knowledge of Obama is what he wants, he wants now. He doesn’t care how it impacts anyone else, just as long as he gets what he wants immediately. The idea of actually putting some hard work into anything to come up with a solution that is actually going to work is alien to him. Obama is into image and show, that costs money I’m not willing to spend.
Out of all the contenders for presidency this year, I preferred Hillary Clinton. Without her as a choice, I’m left with the McCain and choosing not to vote for social issues and instead basing my vote solely on economics and fair elections. From what I see so far, Obama will be an economic disaster.
Watching this back and forth on this site is a riot. Do you guys (sincere HRC supporters) not realize that you have been infiltrated by Republicans who hate HRC as much as Obama? They are just here to stir shit up. Watching you debate with them about whether you will vote for McCain is hilarious (while they profess their love for HRC but must vote for McCain so HRC can run again in 2012). Oh please. They were always going to vote for McCain even if HRC got the nom.
Uh, yeah, and so? I have called the thugs out many times.
And there are republicans here who come in as republicans.
What is your point?
There are MANY kinds of trolls here. The LaRouchies come in once in a while…they’ve pretended to be Dems for years.
Meanwhile, YOU are the worst kind of troll. An Obamathug.
Go to “We will not be silenced” and watch the documented videos of you thugs gaming the caucuses and harassing elderly women and don’t come back without an ABJECT APOLOGY.
ddd242,
Gee, hate to break it to you, but the PUMA movement is real. ever watch FOX news? 1 in 5 Hill supporters are saying they will vote McCain. So people like me and others on this site are just part of a growing movement.
As Alexis de Tocqueville said, “In politics shared hatreds are almost always the basis of friendships.”
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It was the job of the superdelegates and party leadership of the Dems to choose the strongest candidate to win against the GOP. They failed.
Not only did they fail, but they added insult to injury. They are also corrupt.
Neither incompetence, cowardice or corruption should be rewarded. I like John McCain, too. Easy decision.
sorry, but you are wrong.
I have been in agony for months now. And now I feel that I have two absolutely terrible choices in front of me. In my whole life, I have not felt this bad about a Presidental election. Please try to understand that some of us feel very torn over this choice. The fact that we feel resistance or outright unwillingness to vote for McCain does not mean that we support Hillary any less, or that we take any less seriously what has been done to the party. I do not want to vote for McCain. His record on women’s rights, on the environment, on the things that I care about most deeply, is terrible. I may well end up voting for him in order to help deal the blow to Obama that I think is necessary. But I haven’t resolved this yet, and it’s a tough, tough place. Please don’t question our loyalty, commitment, etc, just because we’re not exactly where you are. That’s too much like Bush, like Obama, and it doesn’t help us – just adds to the pain.
My 2 cents….
cellocat,
I can empathize with you. I was an Edwards supporter. When he dropped out, I had to make a selection between Obama or Hillary. I didn’t know much about Obama so I did research, talked with Democratic friends living in Chicago, etc. I really did my homework. I was appalled at what was uncovered about Obama.
I have been a lifelong Democrat and based on my research on Obama, and how Hillary and her supporters were treated during the primary, have decided to cast my vote for McCain. When I look at Obama, he is NOT as he is portrayed, and actually will be much more of an extension of the Bush Administration.
For example, let’s discuss environmental issues:
Obama opposed the House passed 1872 Mining Act reform bill. In November 2007, Obama pandered to the mining industry by coming out AGAINST a crucial reform bill the House passed that would have updated the notorious “General Mining Law of 1872.” Obama has a close association with a longtime Nevada power broker, mining lobbyist and member of Obama’s Nevada campaign steering committee.
As the NYT stated in an article,
nytimes.com/2008/02/03/us/politics/03exelon.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Obama states he believes in equal pay but pays the women working in his Senate office less than the men working on his staff. The opposite is true of John McCain.
There is much more to Obama. He states one thing but his record and actions show a completely different person. Obama’s actions speak at full volume.
I understand.
The majority of us here have also struggled with the same tough choice early on. Personally, I began the shift to McCain in April – when it became clear that the DNC intended to stand by Obama and kick Hillary to the curb. They kept hollering for Hillary to “step down” – even after she won Ohio. I was cheering for Hillary to keep going all the way & fight for MI and FL to be counted, but I also started thinking about McCain as an alternative then. PUMA really helped to make the decision to vote for McCain alot easier.
Obama lost my support with Iowa in January. Not because of him at that point, but because of the media. When those fools gushed over how he won “all White” Iowa and how Hillary should quit if she loses New Hampshire, I was thinking, “What the f—? The race is only three days old, Obama’s only won ONE STATE, and they’re hollering about Hillary quitting already???? What the hell is wrong with these clowns?”
Then came their bogus “polls” – ALL of which had Hillary losing New Hampshire by at least 10 points. When I saw how crushed those media bitches were when Hillary beat Obama by three points, red flags went up in my head. I knew the fix was in for Obama at that point. I’ve hated them ever since. The media’s trying to do the same crooked “poll” manipulation thing with McCain. And it’s failing.
In essence, you may want to check out the PUMA blog. They can help you to deal with the difficult decision. I know they helped me.
Vote for Cynthia McKinney, then. She’s black, she’s antiwar, and she’s pro-woman.
She’s also a little flaky, but really–no more so than Obama. She certainly is possessed of less hubris than he is!
If you’re REALLY pissed, you vote McCain–as it’s a way of voting against Obama twice. But if you can’t bring yourself to do that, McKinney is a great way to let them know how you feel without compromising your core views.
If, however, you decide to be held hostage by a couple of men who think you’re a bitch who supported a bitch (99 Problems and a Bitch Ain’t One of ‘Em) that speaks to your own issues. You do have a choice, you can make your voice heard, you do not HAVE to “go along and get along.”
You can also vote downticket Dems in. The Congress will just have to work and ride herd on President McCain.
I’ll have to decide how pissed I am come November. Cynthia may get my vote, or maybe The Sailor Man will, if I’m in a shitty mood.
All I know, now, is that Barack Obama will NEVER get my vote. NEVER.
Why can’t you Hillary supporters come to grips that your candidate lost? I simply do not understand the logic of any of you. If Hillary would have won, barely (like Obama did), none of you guys here would be saying, “Don’t vote for Hillary! She didn’t deserve to win! The election was stolen from Barack Obama! Vote McCain to prove the point that we don’t support this broken democratic system!”
None of you would be saying this.
Obama got the most delegates (not just super delegates but the normal delegates too) he got the popular vote (yes he did, don’t lie) and he ran a very positive campaign. He never attacked Hillary unfairly or did anything that disrespected her.
Most of all though Obama and Hillary Clinton are almost identical when it comes to policies! So saying you voting for McCain instead of Obama is basically the same thing as voting against Hillary Clinton, because you are voting AGAINST her OWN POLICIES!
The Clintons are going to be fine and Hillary is going to be fine. Yes its tough right now for her, cause she thought she was going to win… but someone has to lose… and it was her.
Once you guys realize that Obama didn’t steal anything away and a vote for McCain is a vote AGAINST Hillary… hopefully you will come out in November and elect the DEMOCRAT.
Peace
Go play in traffic.
But before you do that, take these truths with you.
First, Hillary didn’t lose. She was CHEATED. Get that fact through your thick, empty skull.
Second, McCain’s FAR more qualified to be POTUS and FAR more trustworthy than Mr. Flip-Flop. Plus McCain’s not taking ANY party votes for granted – unlike you arrogant m———— in the Obama compound.
Third, when you Obamabrats didn’t think Obama had a snowball’s chances in hell of stealing the nomination early on, you were whining and shouting, “Obama or McCain!” “No more Clinton/Bush dynasty!” and all of that other ignorant shit all through cyberspace. Your dumb asses didn’t think that your stupid, hateful words and bad attitude would come back to bite you in the ass later on, did you?
Fourth, you’re damn right the Clintons will be just fine. Hillary will be able to run for the Presidency again in 2012. But Obama’s political career is finished after November.
Fifth, Obama ran as the “anti-Hillary” during the primary. Now the bitch is trying to market himself as Hillary’s political identical twin?? Spare me the bull.
Plus, Obama’s obviously unstable. He has changed his political stances SOOO much since the primary that even HE doesn’t know where he stands on anything anymore!
Campaign financing – FLIPPED.
Gun control – FLOPPED.
Ending Iraqi war – FLIPPED.
FISA Telecom Immunity – FLOPPED.
No negative campaigning – FLIPPED.
No “old politics.” – FLOPPED.
Abortion – FLIPPED.
Sixth, Hillary not only won the popular vote in the primary, SHE MADE PRIMARY HISTORY DOING IT, you lying turd.
Seventh, Obama and his lowlife spawn everywhere insulted, demeaned, abused and belittled not only Hillary Clinton, but her supporters and women in general throuout the ENTIRE primary.
Political life will now be tough for your crybaby asses as you watch your “messiah” die a slow, agonizing and painful political death in November.
Ain’t life grand?
Your letting your anger cloud your vision if you don’t think an Obama loss damages Clinton, permanently. The groundwork is already laid and the reviews in process. The democratic party will not reward her with support in 12 if she and her supporters sabotage Obama this cycle.
Clinton’s best chance, support Obama 100% get on the ticket as VP in 12 and run for president in 2016 at age 68 (Which would make her 4 years younger than McCain is today)
If she does not support Obama fully and with passion, the closest she will get to to WH in the future will be the annual ex presidents homecoming dance.
There is absolutely no reason Hillary should try to run for VP in 2012 and run in 2016. That’s about the stupidest thing, hands down, I have read anywhere.
If Obama screws up, and he has a snowball’s chance in hell of winning, expect another 28 years of the Republicans. The Democratic Congress is skating on thin ice, so this talk of Hillary having to dance to their tune is BS. She will do her job, continue with the projects that are important to her and do everything to preserve her husband’s legacy.
But she does not have to win this election for Obama. It’s about time he worked for something for once in his life. If he fails, he will go down in history as a loser. The country will do what is in its best interests. Hillary has the best chance to run as the I-told-you-so Reagan in 2012 or not.
I call BS on that. If the DNC is willing to blame Hillary for Obama’s loss, then all the more reason to NOT vote Obama in November.
Again, we disagree, the meme is already starting.
Just listen and you will hear it, I’m watching it right now this very moment.
Dan Abhrams on MSNBC talking about the disgruntled “Clinton” people.
The guest “We will need to see how Sen. Clinton handles the speech”
If her tepid support contributes to a loss, don’t think people won’t remember they will, just ask Ted Kennedy how it impacted his future chances at being president.
Dan Abrams just lost his show to the even more leftist Rachel Maddow and we care what MSNBC says?
“Peace.” I just wrote a lengthy opinion piece in bold telling you to get in line, but I wish you peace.
I scrolled right past that one.
i’m kind of riding the fence myself. sorry guys. i consider myself a proud Hillary supporter (hard since i live in a predominantly black neighborhood) but John Mccain is a far prospect as far as the issues go.
Let me ask you: do you guys have a legitimate reason for putting John Mccain in office? cause aside from bitterness, i don’t understand. i mean this is a man who wants to DOUBLE the Bush tax cuts. it just doesn’t make any sense to back someone whose platform is so far removed from Hillary’s. all this will do is hurt her chances of running in 2012. stay home, vote green party, whatever… but John Mccain will be a DISASTER for this country.
yes i have to agree this new “I am riding the fence too but now that hilary is out and aside from bitterness why McCain” talking point from the Obama campaign is the latest manipulation tactic.
The more you Know about Obama
The more you will NO OBAMA!
Do some investigative research about who he really is and how he got where he is and who got him there.
Really, by now its so evident that you either want to know or you don’t.
So much on this and other sites (for now) that unless you choose to ignore it you can’t help but run into it.
You wanna know who Barack Obama is… he our Democratic Nominee for President of the United States of America. He was chosen by the American people to represent the Democrats in this upcoming election. A vote for John McCain is a vote against DEMOCRATS… its a vote against Hillary Clinton’s own POLICIES, and its a vote for 4 MORE YEARS of BUSH.
Stop being angry and realize that your support of McCain… is a vote for everything Hillary doesn’t stand for.
He was not chosen by the American people. A vote for McCain is a vote for the country before party affiliation.
BULL.
Catch a damn clue.
Barack Obama was NOT chosen by the majority of Democratic voters. HILLARY CLINTON WAS.
I will continue to be angry about stolen elections. Stealing elections is NOT DEMOCRACY. The voices of ALL voters in the United States MUST BE RESPECTED. And ANY elected official or leader who forgets that or ignores that WILL BE DEALT WITH BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
A vote for Obama is a vote for four more years of Bush. Inexperience, hubris, vice-president running the country, favoring the wealthy…..
Bush and Obama are practically the same politically.
HAHA. Where’s your list, Jeremiah? “Vagina scare tactics” is my favorite.
When I read these, “Gosh, I just feel so torn” posts (remember AnninCA? LOL) I just hear a loud sucking noise. SLUUUUUURP.
“Kiss my ass,” as Bill Clinton said. The unity pony jumped the shark a long time ago. I personally can’t stand Obama now, and he has shot his credibility. So nothing he says will change my mind, either.
Obama is crooked as the California coastline. I will never vote for him or forgive him for this election. We actually had a good candidate, and he conspired with Republicans to fuck that up.
‘riding the fence’….if you don’t know by now who you will be voting for, you haven’t been paying attention and nothing anyone says will help you decide. It’s all out there…except for the Obama cover up on certain things….McCain is pro-life….at least he stands by what he is and does not try to appease everyone, he is what he is….Obama will flip whichever way the wind blows..even Hillary said very clearly that McCain has the experience to be President, she did not say the same about Obama….even Biden said McCain would be a good President. So what exactly is causing you to sit on the fence?
I think unfortunetly at this time we must throw our support behind John McCain for the Good of our party.
Obama is a disease that people have been carefully planning. Just look at his Voting record in Illinois. Any Votes that would give him a record on stances he ignored and voted present to prevent a voting record in favor of or against.
He went as far as refusing to vote on a bill in Illinois that every other Senator but him passed he refused to vote yes or no instead another present vote.
He is a plant by forces out to overthrow the Democrat Party. Why would a man who says he is in favor of so many fundamentals of our party refuse to vote for those fundamentals. Why is he afraid of being on record of supporting our parties goals. He speaks lip service but doesnt back them up.
He is a puppet and he must be stopped.
We must Vote McCain or we will face 8 years of the Puppet. Better to endure 4 of McCain and then get Hillary where she belongs.
But before we do that we need to still support Hillary this week for the nomination.
McCain has a proven track record of being willing to take a stand even when it isn’t popular with his own party.
McCain is not gonna be as radical as Obama and his cronies say to try and scare us to support him.
McCains campaign has been right for sure with their AD Campaign calling Obama “the one.” A Group of people behind the scenes has since the beginning been working to have the Party turn its back on Hillary.
We had people sitting on the Edwards Sex Scandal in the middle of the Primaries refusing to reveal what would have caused Hillary to gain alot of support.
Obama is “the one” for scoundrels and charletans who will destroy our party.
“We had people sitting on the Edwards Sex Scandal in the middle of the Primaries refusing to reveal what would have caused Hillary to gain alot of support.”
Polls show most of Edwards supporters would have gone to Obama… so this is wrong.
I can sum up our only option in two words:
DAMAGE CONTROL
And may I add that this is only if Hillary doesn’t provide us with another one:
TAKE THIS THING THIS WEEK!
(If she doesn’t, she will always be seen as nothing but another politician, not the great statesperson that she is.)
I love NoQuarter but I have to vote for McCain. Obama has exposed himself to all except most of the MSM.
There is currently a Democrat Congress–and a house leader by the name of Nancy Pelosi. Where would the checks and balances be in this government? We’ve already seen how the elite controlled the entire primary process and counted out the candidate of the majority!
No way can I vote for the Democrat of choice this cycle. This spineless and undemocratic party cannot go unchecked. I’m from a state that set out to silence my vote–when they voted to move up the primaries. The Dem governor signed it, the leadership supported it. No, in my state I will be letting them all know what I think of their cheating ways. I know my vote won’t change a lot but I will vote not only McCain but straight ticket Republican this year.
Ok, McCain sucks, but BO is worse! And the idea of voting for McCain truly is depressing, but not as awful as the idea of BO.
I mean, McCain has had to flip flop a lot to appease his Republican supporters. But he is known as a maverick, and I am holding out hope that once he becomes president, he will flop back to his original positions.
I think McCain is the best chance we have to get rid of BO, and take back the democratic party from Pelosi and Dean.
This whole turn that the DNC has taken has to be stopped. We can’t support where it is going, we have to chance it on McCain. And Hillary can run and win in 2012.
I know it is difficult to vote for the republican…let’s get a look at his running mate. Maybe he’ll choose Leiberman.
I am voting McCain, but I respect the writers at No Quarter, so I’ll pay attention to what you are saying.
Here’s an interesting article about the personal McCain — “The Great McCain Story You’ve Probably Never Heard”.
http://www.slate.com/id/2188545/
P.S. If McCain is so bad why did Biden and Kerry try to get him to join the ticket in 2004????
Could NOT stand to look at Obama prancing around the White House for even a second much less 4 years. Besides with a strong Dem Congress, I see little danger in him. Please don’t go all Taylor Marshy on us!!
BTW, That was a different McCain, check his policy positions the have swung 180 since 2004.
I take heart in the fact that Republicans don’t like McCain very much. If Republicans don’t like him, he can’t be all bad.
And nothing could be worse than having a crooked Democrat in the White House.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4HrSQySus8
My issue with your reasoning is that if you elect Obama this time but you really want Hillary the next time, you are shooting yourself in the foot. The DNC wouldn’t let her have the nomination this time and you can be sure that if Obama wants to run for a second term, the Democratic Party will support the current Democratic president no matter how much he has screwed up. With a Democratic House and Senate and McCain as president, McCain will adapt (note I didn’t say flip-flop — I have flip-flopped many times in my life as I grew to understand what worked and what didn’t).
In the spirit of full disclosure I will admit I support Obama (pretty Obvious).
That being said, this article does have a pearl of wisdom no matter who you support.
“Keep them guessing”
This time since the primary should have shown you all that if you speak in absolutes you give your power away.
One other note, If McCain does win in 08 they will win again 12. (McCain or his VP) because the country is at bottom, they will have some upswing in the next 4 years.
DanO, I’m with you. I come to NoQuarter looking for hope that something can be done about the Democratic Party. I don’t come to NoQuarter looking for MSM information. I have cable television for that. Thank you.
Susan, count me among the NQ readers who defend your right to do exactly as you please. You own your vote.
You are not TM and any linking of NQ or any of the many contributors to her is insulting.
What you are doing, and what should be done, is not rolling over for anybody, but exploring the options and refusing to be a blind devotee of any particular politician or party. Kudo’s for presenting both sides of the story.
As a life-long Dem, I made my decision based on what I consider to be NO OTHER OPTION, to support McCain if need be when the time comes.
I haven’t mustered a drop of enthusiasm in that decision yet and haven’t donated a dime to him, but there is no doubt for me that I cannot vote for ob-bi.
Let’s see who Mac picks and how it goes and until then hold all politician’s feet to the fire – even Hillary’s when need be. I was not happy with some of her decisions every now and then and said so.
I cannot vote for Nader either, too much animosity towards his years as a spoiler, or any other 3rd party candidate.
For me, if it comes down to mac vs ob, it is mac as a lesser of two evils.
For you, keep telling the truth – even if it isn’t something that will rub the issue raw.
Kudos to NQ, Susan and Larry and all the good people here who do not drink the kool-ade from either side.
I have a whole lot of bones to pick with republicans for their actions over my 51 years on the planet.
And yet, there is something very, very soothing about the republicans having the luck to run with Mac this year, so far and up to this point, and who knows how this will all play out. Keep the dialog open. Thanks.
THANK YOU Susan & NQ for standing with Hillary and starting to show what McCain is REALLY about. I will stand PROUDLY will Hillary as there is no country without Hillary’s party.
BRAVO to Susan !!
no one has given a single reason to vote for John Mccain, other than being mad at the DNC. do you really want to risk the country on Mccain?
ok granted he’s a maverick, and he might playing the party, but you’ve forgotten one thing we know for sure: HE WANTS TO STAY IRAQ! where do you think our economy problems are coming from? not to mention not to mention the amount of lives that will be lost.
OK, then, if it’s a case of who flip-flops the least — John McCain wins by a long shot. Obama, as it turns out, is the worst flip-flopper ever. On almost ALL of the issues, truth be told, Obama doesn’t know which side he’s on.
Obama is the only flopper I have heard to say he will “refine” his flops (with reverence to Iraq, the Iraq surge and needing to travel to Iraq to get the facts from those on the ground) and has, as far as I know, not to date indicated what became of his refined plank — this after his ‘carnival of patsys’ to Europe.
Notwithstanding the above, the surge supported by McCain worked (as evidence by a report in the NYT — the liberal rag — and by Obama’s own hapless admission).
What Mr. Obama is essentially saying with his choice of Joe Biden (also a flip-flop) is that OBAMA DOES NO HAVE ENOUGH EXPERIENCE TO GOVERN. A tutor for Obama (Biden) and on-the-job training (Biden’s own words) is not sufficient experience.
Obama’s rating will continue to drop like water falling over the Niagara falls.
It is important to know the truth about McCain’s stand and history on the issues.
This is the choice I have:
Obama – bad character, liar, cheater, anti-democratic, dangerous, sexist, racist, corrupt DNC, etc., etc., etc.
McCain – good character, honest, wrong side of some issues.
For me, it is:
the lesser of two evils – the one who will do the least harm to this country for the shortest amount of time. In addition to the obvious danger of Obama, he would have free reign with a Democratic majority Congress; McCain would be checked, if Democrats get a backbone.
And the one who will provide Hillary the ability to run again in 2012.
Unless something changes, I have no choice but to vote for McCain.
I will never vote for Obama. Voting for anyone else who is not a viable candidate is giving my vote to Obama.
I will not know for sure who I am voting for until the day I vote in the GE. Much can change before then. I sure hope it does.
I am in no way suggesting how anyone else should vote. I’m just saying how I see it at this time.
Everyone must take advantage of the freedom of the private one person one vote, while we have it.
Wise Words
Its all in the hug.
See Also: Taking Back The Campaign Nominee, POWnding it into the ground, So What About You, John McCain?, Rich on “Change”, Exxon John “McCain”, McCain Rattles Off His Homes, and John McCain’s Houses: S…
The really interesting thing is – we have the power to influence this election. That means we have the power to influence the candidates’ positions on issues.
We know we can’t influence Obama – he has no positions, just hunger for power.
McCain may be willing to listen on some issues.
I think neither candidate can win without us. Amazing isn’t it.
[...] partially jives with theirs, and now even McCain is pandering to them. Odd, then, that with one notable exception, the PUMA sites are wholly ignoring McCain’s outstretched hand and attempt to claim Santa [...]
John McCain and Cindy paid for their house,unlike Obama “REZKO”RING A BELL?Ayers?
McCain I will give my vote to anydy.
OBAMA,NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HILLARY YES.Not Hilary then my vote is for McCain
Hillary or McCAIN 08
John McCain and Cindy paid for their house,unlike Obama “REZKO”RING A BELL?Ayers?
McCain I will give my vote to anydAy.
OBAMA,NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HILLARY YES.Not Hilary then my vote is for McCain
Hillary or McCAIN 08
Nothing but racist bigotry.
Where did McCain mean when he demanded “drill here now” at the Sturgis Rally? The Great Lakes? The McCain energy policy is a disgrace.
“As far as Woe v Wade – use birth control”? WTF? Abortion is not an easy choice it is however a choice a woman must make. Isn’t it great that these “pro lifers” support the death penalty, support sending our troops to an illegal oil war and have no regard for our vets. They claim “pro life” but what help is given to the poor girl, who through lack of sex education gets pregnant and has a child?
“And we do not need a adultering druggy, who is in bed with our enemies at any given moment”
I agree we should not support John McCain for President. Send him and the rest of his adulterous party back to the same job lines they have sent many American workers.
“he plans for you to pay up the ying yang for slavery”. Pure racist bull. He already said he does not support reparations, but he does support strengthening our education system, so that the poorest people of America, black, white or Asian can be given a hand up not a hand out. Far better than the sink schools created by the Repugs that have left many without opportunity.
“and global poverty will take up any extra funds they save in letting terrorism run rampid” Obama supports, as do all Democrats, including Hillary, the already signed up to UN agreement to get International Aid from the richest economies up to 0.7% of GDP