OK, This is Getting Old
By dcmediagirl on August 25, 2008 at 10:55 AM in Air America Radio, Barack Obama, Delegates, Democratic Nomination, Democrats, Democrats Against Obama, Disenfranchisement, Florida, Michigan
Sorry to burden you all with this nonsense, but it’s important to record the “thinking” of Democratic party insiders for posterity. Behold the musings of Elaine Kamarck on Salon. “Schaller” is the Salon interviewer. “Cohen” is Michael Cohen of the New America Foundation. The article was published before the Biden announcement.
Kamarck: The worst thing that can happen at a convention is that it can in fact turn into an actual decision-making convention. The worst thing that can happen at a convention is that it can be real. That is almost always a harbinger of bad things to come.
So 1968, the reason there was such turmoil was because the party was in a mess and they were making real decisions at that convention and they lost. In 1972, one of the reasons McGovern went on with his acceptance speech at 3 o’clock in the morning was because there was significant intra-party strife that had to be dealt with and they lost. In 1980, when Carter and Kennedy fought to a draw at their convention, the Democrats lost. In other words, whenever one of these conventions has real business, as opposed to being a show, that’s really trouble. Which is why, of course, now in the last couple of weeks, I am sure that the Obama campaign and the Hillary campaign are working very carefully on this roll-call vote on Wednesday night, because there is the potential that there could be an embarrassment there depending on what Hillary delegates do.
Schaller: This brings us to the next question, which is, how much do you anticipate that Clinton supporters could be a serious problem for Obama at the Democratic convention? Are these PUMAs [Party Unity My Ass] and Just Say No Deal people a fringe element, and is it just going to be the media paying attention to them because there’s a story there but, ultimately, Hillary Clinton and her people are sitting on them? Or could this spin out of control?
Kamarck: Because I was a member of the rules committee, I’ve been bombarded by these folks for some months now. And there are two or three major groups that send out massive numbers of e-mails each day with bizarre, unsubstantiated rumors in all of them.
I will tell you they feel like Republicans to me. The whole business smells like a Republican front. I’ve been through intra-party battles, Mondale and Gary Hart and Carter and Kennedy, I was in the middle of those battles and this is not the way Democrats fight each other. And so something’s wrong here. Something’s weird here. I don’t quite believe it. Now if I get to Denver and there’s a significant Hillary revolt, I’ll have to eat my hat, but I think this is an Internet phenomenon. And it smells to me like a Republican front.
Cohen: I actually think this is a huge problem for Obama. I look specifically at the most recent poll from Ohio, which showed Obama’s biggest weakness, his biggest problem there was actually among Democrats. About 17 percent of Democrats were not supporting him. And I think that could be a real problem for him and that’s something that the convention can hopefully take care of. But I think a lot of the burden actually falls on Hillary to make peace to some extent with Obama and make sure this is as seamless and as frictionless a convention as possible.
I also think on some sort of bizarre level that it actually does suggest that a potential Hillary V.P. pick might not be the worst idea in the world.
OK, for about the billionth time:
Why is it so difficult for party insiders to understand the bitterness and anger of Hillary voters? I’m not sure what planet Kamarck was vacationing on during the Michigan and Florida mess, but as a member of the Rules Committee - and as someone WHO WORKED FOR AL GORE’S CAMPAIGN IN 2000 - even she must (or should) comprehend the frustration of the rank and file with the party’s inability to arrive at a solution until the last minute. Unsubstantiated rumors? How about disenfranchisement as an issue, which is quite substantiated thank you very much? How about assigning delegates to a candidate who did not campaign for them or win them fair and square? Does she remember what happened in Florida in 2000? Maybe hanging around Hahvahd Yahd for all this time has clouded her memory. I, on the other hand, remember that travesty like it was yesterday. And you can bet that if Republicans tried to pull this stunt on the Democrats during the general the Dems would be screaming bloody murder, and justifiably so.
Then there’s this:
The worst thing that can happen at a convention is that it can be real.
Oh really? So respecting and listening to the points of view of ALL the party’s members, not just those with whom you agree, is the worst case scenario? Well, maybe for this crowd it is. Finally someone tells the truth.
And Michael Cohen was on a roll, until he blamed Hillary for everything and announced that it was her responsibility to put a lid on her supporters. Not a word about the sexism and calumnies the woman endured during the campaign. Not a peep about how the media, the blogosphere, “progressive” radio and Democratic mandarins dogpiled on her and tried to push her out of the race almost from the get-go.
There’s a lot more to talk about but I’ll leave that up to you.
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Wow.
They don’t even mention the caucus irregularities? Or the undemocratic nature of caucuses?
They don’t mention the blatant sexism?
Btw, I don’t think there was ever a chance that this could EVER be a “real” convention. The DNC and its RBC ensured that.
I witnessed it the day I watched the Platform Committee meeting on C-Span, and saw the chair rule “out of order” any consideration of the caucus amendment.*
…
*There are still opportunities to get something done about the caucus system. But it’s going to be slow-going. Stay tuned on that one.
Thank you! I was just about to post about the caucus fraud! Since I’ve learned more about it in the last couple of days, that has been my main focus of things. Just a side note - I suggest everyone write to Greta, O’Reilly and Hannity to ask them to look further into the caucus fraud and actually report on it. (What a novel idea) I sent them a link to that new documentary preview while I was at it.
absolutely….. You have my five!!!
I will…
Another point missed is the Obamites’ constant use of intimidation, threats, physical assault, dirty tricks, disinformation, character assassination, suppression of dissent, etc.–i.e, any and all tactics to rig the game in their favor.
PUMA goes far beyond Hillary. It is a reform movement against the corruption of the Democratic Party.
I just heard on NPR (I think it was on Here and Now) that the delegates are getting talking points every day. One was how to respond to the media’s questions about Hillary. It creeped me out. Very Rovian/Orwellian. I also heard a discussion of Ryan Lizza’s piece in the New Yorker about the party’s “western strategy”. That is give up on the South and go after the West. This seems really dumb to me. After all there are not that many people in the West. Also, they want to reject the South because of the all the Southern values voters, but the influx of people from the North to southern cities is big, so why give up on them? Then I read this in Lizza’s piece:
“There is an irony in the party of the downtrodden becoming the party of America’s economic winners, but in fact Democrats are doing better among voters in places that are prospering, like Colorado and New Mexico, and losing ground among voters in regions that are experiencing hard times, such as West Virginia or parts of Pennsylvania and Ohio. A Democratic turn toward the West would accelerate this trend. A party of the Western megapolitans and resort communities would be a party less and less like the party of F.D.R., Truman, and Lyndon Johnson. It would be more oriented to the haves than to the have-nots. It would rely more on educated voters. Its approach to social issues would be more matter-of-fact, and candidates would be less fearful of alienating the most reactionary evangelicals. It would be more oriented toward small businesses and thus more skeptical of workplace regulations. It might become a party that puts more emphasis on achieving energy independence and combatting global warming than on providing universal health care and social justice. “It’s a party that becomes more Hispanic, and less African-American,” Kenneth Baer, the co-founder of Democracy: A Journal of Ideas, said. “More oriented toward high-tech workers and less towards labor. It’s the end of the New Deal coalition.”
Schaller sees the American West as a place to refashion a Democratic future—one less tethered to the Party’s old interest groups. “Democrats have the chance in the Western states to forge parties that reflect a post-Great Society, new-economy identity,” he said. “That will be much harder to do on the Eastern Seaboard, where the parties are dominated by Catholics and union households. The Colorado Democratic Party is a much better opportunity to forge a new party than, say, the Democratic Party of New York, which is filled with patronage politicians and dominated by identity politics and the barons of the old New York metropolitan machine.”
SO AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE ALL ABOUT OBAMA BUT HE AND AXELROD WANT TO TURN AWAY FROM THEM!!!!!
Now I am talking to myself. But I forgot to add that if Obama and Axelrod succeed that means that no party will represent the poor and lower classes. What a travesty!
National People’s Radio and the New Yorker? Both Obama hos. You’ve got a stronger stomach than me, mister.
The worst that could happen:
- Hillary release her delegates and ask them to vote for Obama
- the convention will go on without mentioning the fraud that lead to him
-Dean, Polosi and brazile will still be called democrats
- The party in its current form go to the election
Until the democrats realize that their caucus system is undemocratic they have lost me.
I believe in One person one vote.
Long ago it stopped being about Hillary.
The democrats need to scrap the caucus system, stop the proportional representation and eliminate the super delegates from swaying the nomination.
The way it looks right now they are no better than two bit thug dictators in the make.
I agree-
We also need to re-examine the Electoral College process…
That will never change, it would take a Consitutional Amendment and all the small states would be against it, it would diminish their power. I think you need 3/4 of the States to approve, never happen.
From the above it looks to me like the DNC and an awful lot of delegates are in great need of a lecture on Democracy. People have fought in wars and died for it and they trash it. Such arrogance is beyond me. They need to wake up to the fact that they have corrupted the process of democracy and there will be no “unity” until it is made right. This is not about Hillary Clinton or any other candidate. It is about our country.
Their ignorance is breathtaking. Well, since we’re all “Republicans”
They don”t have to worry about our votes huh?
Yeah, fif! Ignorance, yes, but I think it’s WILLFUL ignorance - meaning, propaganda - lies of commission and lies of omission - NEVER mention the parts that don’t fit your evil plan for the fascist takeover of the country from the inside - not to worry about any little thing, though - the “players” just need to devise the “proper narrative” and the “media” takes it from there. Done deal.
I’m afraid the only possible way they can be stopped is at the ballot box in November. But even then, I’m sure they plan to steal the election - McCain must be ahead by a wide margin going into November 4 or there’s a good chance they’ll succeed - then again, they’ve bought the pollsters, too, so how will we know how much McCain is really ahead before November?
Gawd almighty! This is a nightmare in real life!
“This is not the way Democrats fight each other.”
So there are roolz for that too, and only party insiders are privy to them?
They really need to get a clue if they think this dissent is just a Republican front.
And of course it’s all Hillary’s fault. Us little folk can’t be making up our minds all on our own.
this is why Dems lose–the disconnected elitism. They deserve it.
I’ve never seen it in quite so STARK a fashion before, though.
Or maybe I wasn’t looking….
It just seems so BOLD, so…VULGAR.
Hubris-laden assholes, all of them!
“This is not the way Democrats fight each other.”
I heard a spokesperson for the Obama campaign state this morning on ABC that if a kazoo was out of order, they had everything in place to take care of it.
He was being questioned on the roll call. They will quash anyone who steps out of bounds PERIOD. This is the new way Democrats fight each other. Thanks thugs.
How do they think a fake Convention is going to magically
turn things around? And how do they explain all the non-Internet
Dems across the US who are not supporting BO? Answer: they DO
NOT WANT HIM! Hillary does not control that.
WOW!!!…Komarck said, that we; PUMA and other groups foghting for Hillare are “REPUBLICANS”, NOW WE KNOW WHO SHI IS, sHE IS ANOTHER oBAMAS PUPIL!!! JUST AS CNN,MSNCS,ABC and others.
Now we know that Obama will never say”SORRY” for racial,sexist primary, and now is still racial!!!
Kormack went to far, by calling me Republican. What a lie.
I was Democrat untill got enough of them and now UI am Independent.
Kormack should step down for stearing rumors, about those(US) democrats, who truly can see what a corrupted and dishonest DNC become.
No for Obama!!! This makes me more angry, no way I will support that corrupted DNC!!!
So PUMA and those who cannot support Obama on the issues are Republicans. If that’s the way it is then don’t be surprised when those ‘Republicans’ vote for McCain in November and Obama loses. There are just not enough Democrats in American any longer to elect a Democrat President. And isn’t that the same message a majority of Americans have been saying in almost every election of my life time.
“The fault, dear Brutus, [Kamarack] is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, [the DNC] that we are underlings.”
Jessie Jackson Jr. said; we dont want to see “ANGRY” Afro-American in the White House. WOW, is He try to scare US- white people. There we go, noe=w Jr. is getting loud to….???Chicago… there we come
Someone ought to stick a banana up Jesse Jrs ass…
How do you know he doesn’t keep one there already?
“Delegates and Caucus”Anything you can buy,get rid of!!!!!
It amazes me that instead of realizing that there’s a problem in the Democratic Party, many assume it’s Republicans trying to cause havoc. How blind. It’s sad but these pundits are out of touch with regular people and will only realize the problem when Obama loses and McCain wins.
I heard a blogger on MSNBC state that the media is making more of the division in the party than actually exists. In his case, I think it was damage control on his part.
They have and will continue to trash Hillary and Bill Clinton and yet, by the words of MSM et al, the Clintons are ALL POWERFUL, as they are the ones that can make it a win for their plastic idiot. Curious way of thinking eh??
That thinking is so contridictory. If HRC is so pwoerful and has so much influence on voters, …WHY isn’t SHE the nominee??!!
The dnc are buffoons. Absolute BUFFOONS!
Hey Kamarack:
I ain’t no Republican! You can bet your life on that!!
Denial is not just a river in Africa. Apparently, a lot of Democrats simply can’t handle the truth.
I certainly hope y’all take back the party that once stood for the “common” man. The party of FDR, Harry S. Truman and John Kennedy. But when the Democratic Party provided us with a peanut farmer that couldn’t find his ass with both hands, I had had enough.
Democrats once believed in families and family values. They were not run by the crazies such as DailyKos and others, who have lead this party into the stratosphere of Marxism. They believe in liberty, fighting the evils of the world to bring democracy and standing up for average Americans. But if you are pro-life, believe that you should be able to keep what you earn and not have it redistributed to someone the government deems more worthy of your money than you are, and feel that democracy brings peace to nations, there is no room left for you at the table labeled DNC.
Take the damn party back and watch all us Kennedy Democrats return.
The far left went insane after the PA debate,
when Hillary made it clear that she would
not tolerate one ounce of aggression of anykind
from the Iranian regime. The new group of
latte radicals would have let Hilter take the globe.
Sad.
I want ALL MY GODDAMNED MONEY BACK.
Over the years, I have given THOUSANDS to the Democratic Party, and I am NOT rich.
If assholes from the “Rules Committee” are going to persist in calling me a Republican, I WANT MY MONEY BACK.
I’ll put it in my gas tank and use it to pay my winter heating bills, since Obama thinks we don’t NEED any kinds of breaks from the government on that score. Of course, that asshole is hoping to be living in government housing, where heat and light are INCLUDED.
Jerk.
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see mrs. farrakhan and michelle!
http://workingmannews.com/
follow all of the dnc videos and more!
If the Democratic Party wants to have a significant portion of its party pushed to the Republican side, I suggest they continue with their current narrative. If anyone wants to label me a Republican at his time, good. I would be more offended being called a Democrat.
Elaine Kamarck is a complete liar.
A “Republican front?!”
ohferchrisesakes.
It’s not PUMA and JUST SAY NO DEAL that are the “Republican front,” Elaine. It’s you!
You have infiltrated my Democratic Party and used GOP disenfranchisement tactics to install a candidate most people didn’t vote for — just as the GOP did in 2000. And, you’re telling everyone to just “get over it1″ — just as the GOP did in 2000.
You are the Republican front Ms. Kismarck.
Sadly when Obama loses because us Democrats voting McCain out of protest against the party. They will blame the Clintons. Without ever acknowledging that Hillary can tell us to support him till she is blue in the face. But ultimately she can do no more than that. It is not within her control, however, she will be blamed for his loss.
Obama and the DNC divided the party, no one else. But they will not accept blame, neither will his supporters.
Democrats can’t win since the DNC, Obama and Obama supporters refuse to accept that we are Democrats and not a Republican front. This alone will cause them to lose. And they certainly deserve to lose.
Hillary Clinton is a much better person than me.
There is no way in hell I would go out and stump for this spoiled rotten know nothing.
And all this crying that SHE has to help him win is BS.
She does not HAVE to do a thing.
She is a loyal democrat and I admire her for that, but the REAL democratic party is no more.
This bastardized version of the democratic party is not good for the country.
COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
PUMAS,BUBBAS,THOSE PEOPLE AND HILLARY’S HARRIDANS RULE
Goodness, Karmarck and Cohen are completely out of touch with America - aren’t they?
Let’s see, Republicans have so much time on their hands a group of them are making up rumors and sending them out in emails to her, in massive amounts. It can’t possibly be that millions Americans are fed up, doing their own research that the media and DNC refused to do and are devoting their precious free time to raising their voices. Nope, that can’t be it. It’s a bunch of nutsy Republicans who are cyber stalking Karmarck. Just ignore them, don’t engage them and they’ll go away.
Cohen thinks the nutsy Republicans are Democrats who went nutsy because Senator Clinton didn’t hug and kiss Senator Obama enough. What more could the Senator have done, offered a marriage proposal? She’s asked her supporters to transfter their support to Senator Obama and she’s giving speech after speech announcing her goal of seeing Obama elected president.
No wonder the Democrats are going to lose an election that no one thought a Republican could win.
You’re right, these people are the Republicans–and so is Obama. Behold the Rovian tactic of accusing others of what you yourself are doing.
The thing these fools don’t realize is that when we the electorate are given a “choice” between declared Republicans and Republican Lite masquerading as Democrats, people are going to go for the real thing every time. They like to know what they’re getting.
And those of us who’ve voted Democrat all our lives–I’ve been voting since 1964–and who can’t bring ourselves to vote for ANY Republican, we have few choices.
It’s either vote third party, write in someone (assuming your state doesn’t automatically award write-in D votes for Hillary, say, to Obama)–or leave the top of the ballot blank.
Still haven’t decided what I’ll do, or whether I’ll stay registered as a Democrat–but I’m now also a registered PUMA.
And Elaine Kamarck, you and your corrupt neofascist ilk can besa mi lean PUMA culo.
This “Salon” writer needs grammar lessons.
The Gang of 3 (Pelosi, Dean, Brazile) and their pals are living in a bubble if they think we are Republicans!
We are the base of the party that Donkey Brazile said were no longer needed.
Maybe they’ll register enough felons and dead people that they won’t need our votes. Then they can text-msg them on election day to wake up and vote.
I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for but when I vote for McCranky in November it will be to send a message to the Democratic Party that they’re dead to me! I’m with clinton Fan–I want my money back!
And if little Nancy Pelosi thinks lack of experience is such a good thing why doesn’t she give the Speaker of the House position to a new freshman Congressman this year? Just sayin’
C’mon, Big Dawg - I’m countin’ on you to go “lights out” at the CONvention - tell all the horrible truths - point the finger - git down! Make ‘em cut your mike - make ‘em bring out the hook to the sound of thunderous applause and choruses of bot boos. Show the world what a circus this CONvention really is! Make America’s living horror into the obots’ nightmare (meaning the media, the DNC, party insiders, the big orange kids, bambi himself) - How’s THAT for REAL, kamarck!
Not gonna happen, of course, but oh what a GREAT fantasy!
After I saw what happened in my State, Michiganistan, and all the rest of the Party hacks went along with this HOAX because of the money provided by the Internationalist billionaire George Soros. This Party depends on the money from Soros, just like MoveOn and probably the rest of the Obama blogs do. How did the DEMS get Coward Dean to run the show?? Howard is a Rich Kid, he doesn’t need to be a doctor to earn a living, his father was the Dean in Dean Whitter, a former big brokerage Firm. If the DEMS want to be the “Party of the People” maybe they should try getting some real people to run things, someone that might have a connection to this country. Obama spent his formative years living in Indonesia, a Muslim male dominated country, he is a product of that culture. If you spend your childhood in America you can move to any country as an adult, but you will never lose your connection as an American. Obama doesn’t have that, he is a outsider everywhere and that is why he can’t connect to real Americans, still thinks we have 57 States too.
never had one drop of repub blood in my body…nope never voted for anyone but a democrat….35 years…
my father-in-law gave me a scolding yesterday for saying i would not vote obama….he said” now listen here i am a 80 year old yellow dog democrat…”
i said” well i’m a 53 year old puma and im not voting for any dirty dog democrat….”
he was trying to cut a cake and he was laughing so hard…
there are sooooooooooo many people that know nothing about anything….anyone that knew what went on at the caucuses would NEVER vote for obama…..please pass that info along
Your story is too familiar. So many are unaware of just how dirty Obama has been. People need to look beyond our party loyalty and decide whats best for the future of the party.
A Loss of this election can help strengthen the party for the long term by getting rid of the disease that infects it like Obama.
Senator Clinton can give speech after speech after speech. Senator Clinton can fall on her sword pledging love and loyalty to “The One”. Obama wants to be president. He has to get the people’s trust to vote for him.
He can’t pull a Jimmy Carter, who by the way had executive experience, and say I will never lie to the American public. Jimmy Carter never did lie to the American public. Obama has already proven that he can lie and does.
The Party is In Turmoil Because It Has Been Taken Over By Abject IDIOTS!
Get a load of THIS:
An official invitation obtained by Salon indicated the event, in Washington’s Mayflower Hotel, was going to feature billionaire Warren Buffett and benefit the Obama Victory Fund, a joint Obama-Democratic National Committee organization that will be helping to pay for the fall campaign. Attending a “business roundtable” with Buffett would cost $2,300 per person; coming to a VIP reception beforehand would have required either a $10,000 contribution or raising $25,000. When Salon inquired about the event Monday, aides said it had been canceled already, though they couldn’t say when that decision was made.
……………………………………
That, “my friends,” is PURE, UNADULTERATED stupidity.
No wonder McCain doesn’t feel a need to push, frantically. He’s taking it easy, because Team Obama is in self-destruct mode.
What stupid IDIOT scheduled that fundraiser? On 911? How STUPID could anyone be?
You KNOW the hotel demanded a nonrefundable deposit!
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/08/25/obama_fundraiser/index.html
This looks bad.
The actions of the Party have re-enforced those
stereotypes that the GOP has made over the past 40 years regarding the party and liberalism.
Hey Kamarck — I bet shortly before their demise, the Whigs were whistling past the graveyard just like you: “these ‘republicans’ don’t smell real. We can safely ignore them.”
And what ” bizarre, unsubstantiated rumors” are the PUMAs repeating? Perhaps the rumor that the DNC believes that “the worst thing that can happen at a convention is that it can be real”?
Enjoy your rump party, gang. When the PUMAs start kicking your asses in election after election, you might think we’re real.