Comments on: So What is the Ground Truth in Iraq? http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/ Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:32:38 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Spencer http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-1158804 Spencer Mon, 16 Mar 2009 02:57:24 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-1158804 <strong>computer forensic training...</strong> You have got to be kidding!... computer forensic training…

You have got to be kidding!…

]]> By: free bon jovi desktop http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-1151387 free bon jovi desktop Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:16:10 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-1151387 <strong>free bon jovi desktop...</strong> Found FREE Another Open Source Project Cashes In " The GARA Systems Blog when i was searching for free bon jovi desktop on Monday... free bon jovi desktop…

Found FREE Another Open Source Project Cashes In ” The GARA Systems Blog when i was searching for free bon jovi desktop on Monday…

]]> By: Mr. Natural http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-686815 Mr. Natural Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:48:20 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-686815 One of the more interesting lines in the Post article was this, "Sunni leaders also objected to AQI's takeover of smuggling routes and black-market enterprises long controlled by local chiefs." Follow the money. One of the more interesting lines in the Post article was this, “Sunni leaders also objected to AQI’s takeover of smuggling routes and black-market enterprises long controlled by local chiefs.”

Follow the money.

]]> By: Vince P http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-685314 Vince P Sun, 07 Sep 2008 08:40:56 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-685314 What our leaders aren't telling us but they should, is that Iraq will never be "won" completely until the Islamic Republic of Iran is no longer controlled by insane shia clerics. What our leaders aren’t telling us but they should, is that Iraq will never be “won” completely until the Islamic Republic of Iran is no longer controlled by insane shia clerics.

]]> By: Zeke http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-685158 Zeke Sun, 07 Sep 2008 07:19:15 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-685158 Its always been a question to me also and this is just a guess but, since there was technically still a war going on with Iraq and I think that smacking somebody was on about everyone's lips. I think that it was Saddam's bad luck to be a mass murderer, the father of mass murderers, and the leader of a military who raped its way across Kuwait at just the wrong time. What I wanted to see was somebody assassinate Saddam, thus allowing us to meet the new boss and explain that he better not be like the old boss. However, Congress decided, in its infinite wisdom to deny our CIA and Military that capability. That choice to deny our government the means to surgically remove leaders of nations who want to harm us, in effect commit acts of war on us, has cost us dearly. In Desert Storm, a Special Forces recon team had Saddam in their sights and were ordered not to shoot. What if they'd popped him? His sons wouldn't have lasted ten minutes and the remaining generals had already figured it out. I don't know the answer but do think that the law which handcuffs our operations in this scary world needs to be undone. Its always been a question to me also and this is just a guess but, since there was technically still a war going on with Iraq and I think that smacking somebody was on about everyone’s lips. I think that it was Saddam’s bad luck to be a mass murderer, the father of mass murderers, and the leader of a military who raped its way across Kuwait at just the wrong time.
What I wanted to see was somebody assassinate Saddam, thus allowing us to meet the new boss and explain that he better not be like the old boss. However, Congress decided, in its infinite wisdom to deny our CIA and Military that capability.
That choice to deny our government the means to surgically remove leaders of nations who want to harm us, in effect commit acts of war on us, has cost us dearly.
In Desert Storm, a Special Forces recon team had Saddam in their sights and were ordered not to shoot. What if they’d popped him? His sons wouldn’t have lasted ten minutes and the remaining generals had already figured it out.
I don’t know the answer but do think that the law which handcuffs our operations in this scary world needs to be undone.

]]> By: Zeke http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-685103 Zeke Sun, 07 Sep 2008 06:59:28 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-685103 This war has turned from just ass kicking to a hearts and minds war. This change in Iraq is fragile but, like the surge, can bring tremendous advantage for the Iraqi's if they can keep the peace long enough to enjoy it. Once that happens, they'll want to keep it for themselves. Its not easy and not fast, but it can happen. Northern Ireland is somewhat of an example. This war has turned from just ass kicking to a hearts and minds war. This change in Iraq is fragile but, like the surge, can bring tremendous advantage for the Iraqi’s if they can keep the peace long enough to enjoy it. Once that happens, they’ll want to keep it for themselves. Its not easy and not fast, but it can happen. Northern Ireland is somewhat of an example.

]]> By: churl http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-684761 churl Sun, 07 Sep 2008 05:09:35 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-684761 Good thread. Thanks to all. A historical note-- the Air Force, Army, and Marines were running operations jointly in 1968-1970 that were very similar to SOF. My son is also in a SOF and many, like him, are Air Force. Good thread. Thanks to all.

A historical note– the Air Force, Army, and Marines were running operations jointly in 1968-1970 that were very similar to SOF. My son is also in a SOF and many, like him, are Air Force.

]]> By: Joy http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-684482 Joy Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:48:59 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-684482 Al Queada has to get the message that if a non-state actor hits us with WMDs, we’ll hit a Muslim state with WMDs _____________________________________________________ If that were the case then why Iraq? Saddam was into wine, women, and song not prayer five times a day. UBL though Saddam was a bad Muslim. Al Queada has to get the message that if a non-state actor hits us with WMDs, we’ll hit a Muslim state with WMDs
_____________________________________________________

If that were the case then why Iraq? Saddam was into wine, women, and song not prayer five times a day. UBL though Saddam was a bad Muslim.

]]> By: Joy http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-684088 Joy Sun, 07 Sep 2008 02:24:44 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-684088 Ohio, thank you for your son. I think if I were an average Iraqi I too would have been afraid to know who to trust and the added troops helped them make that decision. But this administration has distorted, lied, and bungled so often that when something works the public is reluctant to believe it. The next step is to get the Iraqi Government to get with it. I want the Iraqis taking care of their own with little assistance from our men and women. We need them elsewhere. Ohio, thank you for your son. I think if I were an average Iraqi I too would have been afraid to know who to trust and the added troops helped them make that decision. But this administration has distorted, lied, and bungled so often that when something works the public is reluctant to believe it.

The next step is to get the Iraqi Government to get with it. I want the Iraqis taking care of their own with little assistance from our men and women. We need them elsewhere.

]]> By: whoframedrudy http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-683439 whoframedrudy Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:04:06 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-683439 We haven't had an honest debate about the war because the real reasons for the war were unspeakable. So Bush made up a lot of stupid reasons, and we poked holes in his stupid reasons. But the whole debate was bullshit on both sides. A bit back, <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/08/opinion/08krugman.html" rel="nofollow">Krugman</a> said this: 'Remember how the Iraq war was sold. The stuff about aluminum tubes and mushroom clouds was just window dressing. The main political argument was, "They attacked us, and we’re going to strike back” — and anyone who tried to point out that Saddam and Osama weren’t the same person was an effete snob who hated America." I think Paul is filling in his memory here. That was not the main argument for the war, but it was the unspoken subtext. Not even Rush Limbaugh would just come out and say, 'I know Saddam and Osama aren't the same person. But they are the same religion, and we're going to punish an Islamic country for the actions of an Islamic terror group. Al Queada has to get the message that if a non-state actor hits us with WMDs, we'll hit a Muslim state with WMDs." Killing millions for the actions of their government, as we promised in the Cold War, is horrible, but we were upfront about it. But killing millions because they share a religion with Bin Laden -- Bush can't say that is our policy, even though I think it is. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWOGMKQ1aHo" rel="nofollow">Letterman</a> gets into it with O'Reilly. Letterman supported the war at first because 'we had to do something.' Do something? He means do something to somebody, he just can't be honest that he wanted to punch a Muslim nation in the nose for 9/11. Now he's pulling these Michael Moore arguments out of his ass. Michael Moore can make those arguments because he never supported the war. Letterman is full of sh*t. We're not in Iraq because people like O'Reilly and Hannity supported the war. We're in Iraq because people like Letterman supported the war. Though I opposed the war from the start, I'm still a little ambivalent because we never openly debated a deterrent strategy for non-state actors. We need one. I don't know if Iraq is it, but we do need one. We debated M.A.D. Out of that debate, we learned about nuclear winter and exposed the fallacy of 'limited war.' On Iraq, we make fun of the bullshit reasons, but we don't debate the real reasons. Like Strangelove said, "the whole point of a Doomsday machine is lost if nobody knows about it. Why didn't you tell the world?" We haven’t had an honest debate about the war because the real reasons for the war were unspeakable. So Bush made up a lot of stupid reasons, and we poked holes in his stupid reasons. But the whole debate was bullshit on both sides. A bit back, Krugman said this: ‘Remember how the Iraq war was sold. The stuff about aluminum tubes and mushroom clouds was just window dressing. The main political argument was, “They attacked us, and we’re going to strike back” — and anyone who tried to point out that Saddam and Osama weren’t the same person was an effete snob who hated America.” I think Paul is filling in his memory here. That was not the main argument for the war, but it was the unspoken subtext. Not even Rush Limbaugh would just come out and say, ‘I know Saddam and Osama aren’t the same person. But they are the same religion, and we’re going to punish an Islamic country for the actions of an Islamic terror group. Al Queada has to get the message that if a non-state actor hits us with WMDs, we’ll hit a Muslim state with WMDs.” Killing millions for the actions of their government, as we promised in the Cold War, is horrible, but we were upfront about it. But killing millions because they share a religion with Bin Laden — Bush can’t say that is our policy, even though I think it is.

Letterman gets into it with O’Reilly. Letterman supported the war at first because ‘we had to do something.’ Do something? He means do something to somebody, he just can’t be honest that he wanted to punch a Muslim nation in the nose for 9/11. Now he’s pulling these Michael Moore arguments out of his ass. Michael Moore can make those arguments because he never supported the war. Letterman is full of sh*t. We’re not in Iraq because people like O’Reilly and Hannity supported the war. We’re in Iraq because people like Letterman supported the war.

Though I opposed the war from the start, I’m still a little ambivalent because we never openly debated a deterrent strategy for non-state actors. We need one. I don’t know if Iraq is it, but we do need one. We debated M.A.D. Out of that debate, we learned about nuclear winter and exposed the fallacy of ‘limited war.’ On Iraq, we make fun of the bullshit reasons, but we don’t debate the real reasons. Like Strangelove said, “the whole point of a Doomsday machine is lost if nobody knows about it. Why didn’t you tell the world?”

]]> By: McKatmoon http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-683367 McKatmoon Sat, 06 Sep 2008 23:48:08 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-683367 Misd, it's a way to get us off topic, we ignore and continue the discussion, as best we can. I have noticed on various O sites that is the way of most conversations, very little actual thoughtful discourse beyond the need to raise money. Misd, it’s a way to get us off topic, we ignore and continue the discussion, as best we can. I have noticed on various O sites that is the way of most conversations, very little actual thoughtful discourse beyond the need to raise money.

]]> By: McKatmoon http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-683348 McKatmoon Sat, 06 Sep 2008 23:43:48 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-683348 What I am trying to say is I ranted and raved in a letter to Senator McCain, and he in turn treated me with kindness, compassion and understanding. Sometimes parents(mother in this case) of soldiers are not reasonable, I was just operating on fear. He could have ignored me, he didn't; I think having been a soldier, he had that understand of what a family goes through, perhaps his own mother as well. It makes a difference in perception, how that individual is valued, as one human being to another, nothing less. What I am trying to say is I ranted and raved in a letter to Senator McCain, and he in turn treated me with kindness, compassion and understanding. Sometimes parents(mother in this case) of soldiers are not reasonable, I was just operating on fear. He could have ignored me, he didn’t; I think having been a soldier, he had that understand of what a family goes through, perhaps his own mother as well. It makes a difference in perception, how that individual is valued, as one human being to another, nothing less.

]]> By: McKatmoon http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-683327 McKatmoon Sat, 06 Sep 2008 23:38:52 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-683327 I will never forget McCain's stand on torture, I have a real letter from the Senator, when I voiced my concern over the very issue, during the first two year's of the war, my son's first tour. The horror of the contractors that were murdered. I was insane with a mother's fear. Senator McCain wrote a decent, heart felt letter to me which is the same words he uses today. He cared, he was able to relay that feeling of compassion and care with a logic and determination. He showed me respect, and understanding. I will never forget McCain’s stand on torture, I have a real letter from the Senator, when I voiced my concern over the very issue, during the first two year’s of the war, my son’s first tour. The horror of the contractors that were murdered. I was insane with a mother’s fear. Senator McCain wrote a decent, heart felt letter to me which is the same words he uses today. He cared, he was able to relay that feeling of compassion and care with a logic and determination. He showed me respect, and understanding.

]]> By: Ms. Misderweiner13 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-683322 Ms. Misderweiner13 Sat, 06 Sep 2008 23:37:47 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-683322 I wish someone would delete all the spam posts on this thread, and we could then have a redo and a serious discussion of what Mr. Johnson has written. I am getting really pissed at all the juvenile bullshit! I wish someone would delete all the spam posts on this thread, and we could then have a redo and a serious discussion of what Mr. Johnson has written.

I am getting really pissed at all the juvenile bullshit!

]]> By: fluffy bunny http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-683230 fluffy bunny Sat, 06 Sep 2008 23:15:59 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/06/so-what-is-the-ground-truth-in-iraq/#comment-683230 Heh. "Theocracy" must be today's talking point. I guess it's because McCain whipped ass at that evangelical megachurch. Heh. “Theocracy” must be today’s talking point. I guess it’s because McCain whipped ass at that evangelical megachurch.

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