Enough [Update]
By Charles Lemos on September 21, 2008 at 4:35 PM in Barack Obama, Race Card
UPDATE from SusanUnPC: I regularly transfer posts from Charles Lemos, but didn’t realize that he didn’t write this post. It is written by a friend of his for Charles’s blog.
…………………………………
An interesting new meme has appeared on the left. You might call it the “if Obama loses” meme. The idea being pushed by many Obama supporters is that it would be an undeniable effect of deep seated racism. We hear it from governors, gasbags and the kool-aid crowd. We hear it from deep thinkers and, um, others. Many of us find this curious in the extreme. We have been saying Obama would lose since the primary.
I was an early Obama supporter. The wrapper is impressive.
The problems for me started when I looked more closely. Once I got my mind around the baggage Obama was carrying, it was my opinion that he could not win a general election. Since my concern has always been winning, I switched my primary support to Edwards, I voted for him, and then later to Senator Clinton because that is who I thought was most likely to win in the general. This primary season more than any I can remember has shown the difference between the Republican and the Democratic parties. The Republicans nominated the one candidate who had a chance to win in spite of the fact they hated him. The Democrats chose to nominate the one candidate who had a chance of losing because they like him. I am honestly baffled by the idea that Obama is some kind of perfect candidate. In a piece that makes a point or two I agree with Richard Miniter says:
Too many think that elections turn on identities, not ideas.
If Obama loses–and it is still a big ‘if’–too many liberals will fail to heed the message that voters have been sending them since 1981. Seventy percent of the country is tired of 1960s liberalism. Indeed many find the hippie vision frightening: A country too ashamed of itself to fight its enemies, too unsure of itself to praise its own history,govern its children or corral its criminals,and too resentful of the rich to allow the economy to make more of them.
And I predict that, if Obama loses, liberals won’t ask the key question: If, instead, we had tried 1990s Clinton-DLC liberalism, would it have worked?
“A big ‘if’? If you say so. ”Would it have worked?” No, if ”1990s Clinton-DLC liberalism” is mentioned at all by Obama supporters in the wake of a loss I would expect a different context entirely. So far I have seem fingers pointed every direction but inward. Miniter also says this:
If Obama is rejected by voters, liberal activists will face a difficult moment. Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, sure. There was something wrong with them. A failure to connect. A remoteness. A coldness felt in some feathers of the left wing. Bill Clinton was an electoral success, but something about him didn’t sit right. The drama. The southerness. The welfare reform. The zaftig valley girl. Activists can understand why voters might have punished Hillary for the sins of Bill.
But Obama? He is perfect.
Something didn’t set right with Bubba, he’s got that part right. But it was not the “drama” the “southerness” or the “welfare reform”, to people like Miniter Bubba was a hick. It is the one thing Clinton can never be forgiven for. And then there is the last part; Obama is perfect. Perfect? As far as I can see Senator Obama is the most flawed presidential candidate in my memory. He is vulnerable in all the areas Republicans have historically shown an ability to exploit that often rises to an art form.
Obama is a great speaker but I do not believe him to be a great communicator. He is great in a stadium but not so much in a smaller room with no horizon at which he may gaze mistily. The Obama campaign is using Kennedy as a model and not doing badly. The problem is, this is not the 1960s. Obama could probably do well in that sort of ivory tower media environment where you only appear in peoples living room to make a grand speech occasionally. We don’t live in that environment any more. Expectations are a bit different for a president today and Obama has shown a singular inability to connect with voters in the way that, for example, Bill Clinton did. Obama has not made people believe that he “feels their pain”. Miniter says, “Too many think that elections turn on identities, not ideas.” In truth, they often do. I do not think most presidential elections are decided on issues and I do not think this one will be. People give their vote to the person they, for some intangible reason, trust. I will not list here all the reasons and relationships the Republicans will seize on to try to make Senator Obama seem like to much of a risk. We all know who and what they are. That is, if we are honest.
Another reason Senator Obama could lose is the state of the Democratic Party. I have been a Democrat for many years and I have never seen the party so divided. It didn’t have to be this way. In any other year, in any other election the second place candidate who got the votes of 50% of the Democratic Party would have been the Vice Presidential candidate. I believe that if Obama had put Senator Clinton on the ticket they would have won. It would have been a close election but it could have been done. We live in a closely divided country. Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry may not have been perfect, as Miniter says, but if they were not able to eek out a victory with a mostly united party I do not think Obama, with all of his baggage, will make it “ground operation” or not. This has been my opinion for many months and it has absolutely nothing to do with race.
Obama may indeed win. I would welcome this because any Democrat in the White House is better than any Republican. I would be happy to be wrong. This is not an endorsement of McCain or the McCain/Palin ticket. I am a Democrat and as pointless as I think it is I will vote for Obama if I vote at all. My point is this race baiting needs to stop. The fact is, you can acknowledge there is at least some truth in what I have just said or you can say if Obama loses the only possible reason is his pigmentation. I do not believe any honest person can do the latter. It is a lie. Race is far from the only reason this man could lose the election. To say such a thing is to propagate a lie that could make it even more difficult for other people of color to make it to the place Senator Obama now finds himself. If you care about such things please consider that before you spread this particular meme.
Speaking only for me.
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It’s just the Obama campaign playing the race guilt card and calling the right evil while they do it. This mantra is not an accident. Obama played the race card on Bill Clinton and tried to play in on McCain. Now the left has taken the lead and playing Americans against Americana just like the class warfare they try to breed. They can’t win on facts so they try to confuse and separate.
oh please with the class warfare. LOL that had to be the biggest line of crap the conservatives ever came up with to get out of paying their taxes.
I agree. We NEVER hear the term “class warfare” tossed around when tax cuts are geared toward the rich and the middle class gets screwed over. Nope, tax cuts for the rich are just fine and “good economics.”
Suggest that the rich pay their fair share and maybe- just MAYBE- we ought to target tax cuts toward the middle class for a change? Then you are engaging in “class warfare.”
We need to start taking the language back. Biden was right- paying your fair share IS PATRIOTISM. It’s certainly more patriotic than slapping an plastic flag on your antennae or a Support The Troops sticker on your bumper.
There’s been Class Warfare going on for years- the Upper Classes have been fighting and winning, while the middle class has been getting royally screwed.
Go ahead. Use the Pay tazzes if you are a patriot line.
Lets see how many states you end up losing.
People seeme to forget that the rich pay a hell of a lot more taxes than the rest of the country does.
I’m rather well off and I don’t mind paying taxes as long as it goes towards public education, social security, first responders, Medicare…now ask me how I feel about the 700 billion to bail out the rich, “educated” on wall street and I just want to rip somebody’s head clean off. These are the same shitbags who want government off their backs so they can rape and pillage the middle class but run to Uncle Sam with their hands open when they fuck themselves up the ass. Eat the rich and irresponsible.
Nothing more to add, your post is dead on correct Strawberry. I wonder if it will penetrate any of the “Class Warfare” coconut heads here.
Strawberry, I love your posts. You say what’s exactly on your mind and don’t mince words. We gota be soul sisters. BTW I’m one of the ones that’s really gon’a get screwed. I own my own business, work really hard and will have to cut payroll if my taxes go any higher!
You’re one of the good guys, Georgia. You play by the rules, work your tale off but can’t afford to have senators and congressman rolling around in your pocket. You know, a real American. By the way, I like your posts too. We don’t want to screw anyone over, we just don’t want to get screwed.
Amen to that. Reagan’s welfare queens were pikers compared to the Wall Street corporate welfare queens–and they are, indeed, shitbags.
I understand your indignation, but it’s kind of silly. The intervention was (is) necessary not to “bail out the rich”, but to prevent a systemic catastrophe which would have affected each person in the world.
Caused by whom? If these bastards hadn’t been out for a quick million at the expense of such a possible catastophe, than we the guys making 250k or less wouldn’t have to be in the postion of having to prevent a global meltdown. Trust me. The dickheads who caused this fiasco don’t have to worry about the cost of a gallon of gas or the price of a pound of tomatoes. Which by the way was $6.99 a pound today. They may have to let go of their house staff in their summer home in the south of France but they won’t have to cut back on food.
Started by Wall Street Shitbags who should be indicted, arrested, tried, convicted, and imprisoned making really little rocks out of great big ones. Concurrently, they should be stripped of their wealth to make restitution. Then let’s see if any other Wall Street shitbag wants to try their hand at ripping off the taxpayer.
While greed has a part in this somewhere, I’m sure, I hope you realize that this mortgage crisis catastrophe was the result of a kind of ’social program’ as well. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were encouraged to lend to poor minorities that could not afford their own homes. They were told to forget the normal lending standards in an effort to create more homeowners and thereby try to bring people up…give them a chance to build equity in their homes thereby help bring them out of poverty. This has now threatened our entire economy. I’ll certainly admit that Bush had a part in it, and so did the Dem. Congress. This type of socialism is not ‘capitalism’..had it truly been capitalist, it would not have failed. I have no idea why people keep trying to push the failed concept of socialism on the most successful country in history. Not saying we’re perfect and we don’t have problems, but you have to admit, we have it pretty good.
EXCELLENT the truth emerges.
Barney Frank, Chris Dodd et al really pushed Fannie & Freddie to loan to people that had no possibility of managing the debt.
But there are many in my neighborhood that earned plenty and used thier houses as ATM machines.
People refused to live within their means.
There was a call for reform in 2005/06 and it was killed in committee.
We cannot steal from them middle class to fund the rich or the poor.
Jackie. There’s a great documentary called “Maxed Out” that you should see. These folks who loaned to the poor where encouraged to because they knew they could sell off the loans and come out smelling like a rose. All of the profit with none of the risk. Don’t get me started on credit cards for the poor and college kids. The poor people were the lenders extra profit margin.
Ah, The old subprime scapegoat. Sorry, but what we are going through right now with housing loans isn’t due to a few bad loans given to minorities. That’s just what it’s being blamed on. The housing bubble was created by investment banks who both made money off the fees on the initial loan and then made fees as people refinanced before their interest rates ballooned. This churning was driving the business and had the added effect of driving housing prices up through the roof as more money was freed up to feed the frenzy. But as with all ponzi schemes the appreciation was unsustainable. The value of your house can’t keep going up 20 percent a year forever. It collapsed because it had to collapse.
Please don’t blame it on the poor or the bad credited or socialism. This was pure unrestrained capitalism at it’s finest. You are witnessing same the boom bust cycle (the moneyed elite call it “a bubble” because “bubbles” doesn’t sound so scary) that gripped our nation through the 1800’s and had it’s grand finale with the great depression. This is the end of the road of the Reagan revolution and the bill of goods it sold us on the “free market”. Take a good look. We’ll be seeing more of it if we continue to leave our destiny at the mercy of invisible hands.
- “America’s Own Kleptocracy,” by Michael Hudson, Counterpunch
http://www.counterpunch.org/hudson09202008.html
Sorry, I’m not buying into socialism…ever.
My post was not blaming it all on the poor–though they have to accept personal responsibility just like every other human being. I’m saying it was partially a misguided attempt to help the poor (i.e. socialism) as well as greed. There are many contributing factors and not just those we have listed here, but it does have an element of socialism.
There was no altruistic motive involved whatsoever. As with any Ponzi scheme, the more people in, the more money there is to skim. There was so much money in the latest bust that there was even some for the poor and the credit risks. But the later aren’t the guys that caused this so talking about personal responsibility is just helping to feed the sub prime scapegaot. It wasn’t those being scapegoated who were responsible. Rapidly appreciating home prices ultimately fueled by a sea of cheap money fueled this. Just think of how much money Bush’s tax cuts dumped in to the economy. The builder I was working for was selling houses that were appreciating anywhere from twenty to fifty thousand dollars within six months after they closed. The bankers underwriting the loans were talking their fees off the top at closing and then when people refinanced. If any thing fanny may and freddy mac became the dumping ground for the paper so the churning could continue. What killed it finally was when the houses appreciated so much that plain old working stiffs couldn’t afford to buy a house anymore or had to credit themselves to the hilt to do so. That’s when buying stopped, not slowed down, stopped. Then the builders started to foreclose because nobody was buying and and then the support industry for building started closing down and all the guys involved in that started to make less money or lose their jobs and that fueled the rash of individual foreclosures. The banks ended up holding a lot of paper they couldn’t sell, houses they couldn’t sell and land they couldn’t sell except at a loss but there was no buyers now because the money available for loan money was tied up in the paper, the houses and the land the banks were stuck with.
This is the sad ending to all unregulated markets. Call it a cliff. Call a brick wall, it’s the historical end of the road for any vehicle driven by invisible hands and like all history we are doomed to repeat it until we put visible hands on the wheel.
Wild,
As a result the revolution is over!
What the democrats ran on in 2006 is finished as we are left with a trillion dollar tab.
No money left!
That’s why a vote for Obama means depression.
No higher taxes in a recession!
These are the same shitbags who want government off their backs so they can rape and pillage the middle class but run to Uncle Sam with their hands open when they fuck themselves up the ass.
And that’s why you’ll be voting for the candidate who owns 13 cars. Yay, Strawberry!
Well it won’t be for the prick who wants so badly to be one of the people who owns 14 cars that he’s selling out the poor people in his district.
HAHAHAHA!!
And I’ll be voting for a qualified, fit candidate and not your “historic” candidate who is both unfit and unqualified. You’ll have to wait 12 years, UBM, for that. And when and if that happens, kindly nominate a real man like Harold Ford, Jr.
Yeah, the other guy doesn’t give a dime to the Nature Conservancy, the United Negro College Fund, Autism Speaks, Ronald MacDonald House or Doctors without Borders.
BUT HE HAS 27,000 Dollars to give to a church to build their minister a multi million dollar home in a white GATED community.
Sounds like a typical selfish bastard republican, doesn’t it?
Surprise! It’s Obama and his bride MEchele.
I’d support the McCain’s kind of good works any day.
And, I don’t care if a POW has 24 cars. Why is it OK for your girl Oprah?
Hey Undercover,
I guess you want us all to drive a Yugo..
Stop playing the class and race war with us.
As Romney said the other day
I have one less house than Kerry!
Look, strawberry, the reality is that all of things you’re talking about(medicare, medicaid, education etc) have been screwed up by the government. The spending and corruption is so out of control they are about to collapse. And many of those programs were proposed by Democrats. And dont give me “it’s all the Republicans fault” line because the Democrats had their part in this too.
I live in Democratic city and somehow last year they managed to just “lose” millions of dollars slated towards pensions and education. THEY ALL SUCK!! (At least the old Dems understood you can’t throw money at a bunch of failed policies.)
So when the Dems try that class warfare crap I want to scream because they too have been making out like bandits.
No, not the government, but by people with the money to influence the government. Meanwhile, you and I are too busy paying for our own educations, playing by the rules and putting food on our tables to pay close attention. Obama is the perfect example. He got elected to help his buddies make money not help his district or his country. In turn, he’s doing pretty damn well himself. Government isn’t bad, (at least I don’t think ours is) it’s the douchebags who get elected that are the problem. Those programs, medicare etc. are there for the rich as well as the poor. Remember “A hungry man is an angry man” Unless the rich all want to move to Dubai and live on man made islands with little or no freedom to move about unmolested, they’d better remember their history.
If a govt. can be indiscriminately ‘influenced’ by money, regardless of who is in power, then the conservative position that govt. is a necessary evil, and big govt. is worse, is indisputably true.
“In 2004, the SEC gave five banks (and only five banks) the ability to lever up 30 or even 40 to 1 (from 12 to 1 previously). Bet you can guess the five banks. Bear, Lehman, Merrill, Morgan and Goldman. Three down.” - John Mauldin
250K is nothing more then having worked very hard all your life and finally reaping the benefits of your labor.
Bingo. That’s not rich. We still had to watch our budget.
I find it hard to belive that is defined as rich now. My parents made about 20% less than that, but it was really a stretch for them to send me and my siblings to college. That is the baseline where everyone makes you pay (taxes, colleges, schools).
I think they should go after inherited wealth, those east cost gossip girl families that have passed on wealth for generations. That is rich.
Yup. I brought this up before. One client of my brother was a trucking mogel. His kids were awful. They could barely read and had no idea how to balance a check book. When they ran out of money midmonth (apparently, $28,000 a month doesn’t buy that much coke anymore) they would whine to him and ask him to beg their father for more cash. They were always in trouble with the law but didn’t give a damn because they never got busted. These are the real parasites of society. The money they cost the American taxpayers.
Agreed! Then they squirrel away their money in “foundations” that basically make them feel important.
They are the worst offenders of loopholes and the like, and you know what…they are mostly liberal democrats.
Damn, you’re a CPA too? That’s right. The money just circulates in the same tidybowl, never trickling down.
Stawberry, I feel like you and I are kindred spirits…
Unfortunatly I have known too many people that are trust babies…
Yep. Know some people like that myself.
Oh really? What about the millions of people who make that money through dividends and stock options left to them by parents and grandparents? How is that “working hard?” What about the people who royally fuck up at their CEO jobs but then bail out with millions as part of their Golden Parachute contract? How is that “working hard?”
Your post is such bullshit. I work damn hard at my job, and I make $55,000 per year. I know people who work much harder than I do, for less money. I also recognize that there are plenty of people out there who won’t lift a finger their entire lives but will always have money rolling in through the efforts and planning of others.
But I guess in your pea brain, the guy who makes a quarter of a million dollars works almost five times “harder” than I do? What the fuck ever, moron.
With 401k’s and IRA’s it is not just the super wealthy that make money from stocks and dividends anymore. Its a different world now. More people have a stake in the economy than ever before. Another reason this economic crisis, caused in part by goverment incompetence, is so horrible.
Make the poor pay more tazes as an incentive to get off their asses and get educated and earn more money.
I can guarantee that the fact that you make 55k and someone else makes 250k is not directly related to how hard either of you work but how smart you both were or were not in choosing your career paths.
For every story we hear about some poor shmoe working his ass off there are as monay stories about another nor so poor shmoe who also worked his ass off.
Come one enough with the class warfare already.
If you are only making 55K a year thats what you are worth. If you want more earn it. Educate for it, go into a part time business and bust your ass instead of watching football on the weekends or playing poker with your buddies on wednesday night or hanging out at the pub on friday night.
Too many kids? Too Much Expense? Sell a few of them off. Get them forged IDs and put em to work early.
Motivate and invest in one of them and turn him or her into an olympian or a tv star.
Invent something useful.
Anybody in this country who claims they cant do better than they are doing is suffereing from class envy and laziness.
Learn how to day trade.
Set up a website and sell shit.
Christ. Stop trying to get the people who made it pay more than their fair share.
How would you like it if the governement told you that since the guy making less than 26K a year pays no taxes but since you make almost twice that you should pay not only your share but his share too?
what the hell is wrong with people in this country anymore? Its like we are in the age of the self disabler. Government help me, someone else pay my taxes, give me free stuff. where are my cheetohs.
Stop playing world of warcraft and get a second job.
Learn a hobby and get real good at it and then teach other people and charge em for it on weekends.
my god. Stop Hoping for Change. Go out and make your own hopes a reality.
Enough with the damn whining.
You’re a moron. I’m a teacher. That’s the career path I chose. I’m not “whining” about my salary, I’m arguing against your clown-college idea that somehow Everyone Ought To Be Rich Because Everyone Should Choose Professions That Pay Big Salaries.
I can’t believe I’m even responding to you, it’s like trying to talk to a child. By your logic, only dumbasses should be teachers, because “Smart People” would make the “better” choice of a profession that pays more. Your kids are grateful that pinheads like you live in a fantasy world that has no basis in reality.
I can’t believe I wasted time responding to you. I mentioned your kids- I take it back. Please, don’t breed. Drooling morons like you add nothing to any debate, because you just know everything already (I waste my time playing video games, watching football, etc. etc.) Dear God what a waste of skin you are.
“Make the poor pay more taxes”- I hope the hell you are kidding. If not, I hope you are eight years old. You don’t know shit and you clearly can’t learn anything either.
Actually you are a moron.
As a teacher you should know better than to call people morons.
No wonder our kids are comming out of school woefully unprepared.
If people like you are teaching them that the way to argue and reason is by calling people morons…
Like McCain said, hire better teachers and pay them more and find bad teachers another profession.
I had a friend who passed away recently who was an english teacher in the day time and restored historic property and ran a business for assisted living facilities in his weekends and off hours.
He has a secratary and a business manager that ran his business while he was teaching and during his summer vacations and weekends he was fully involved in both the house restoration and the assisted living centers.
Unlike assholes like you he never called anyone a moron and lived by example.
He was voted one of the best teachers in his district on a number of occasions and he invested his free time and money wisely in purchasing historic property and restoring it to end up rather wealthy. 39K was his teaching salary back then and he was worth several million when he passed.
He also donated several of his properties to the state based on their historic value.
I can assure you he was a much better person than you and a much better teacher as well.
Jeremiah: ditto
John: “You’re a moron. I’m a teacher.” “I can’t believe I’m even responding to you, it’s like trying to talk to a child.”
John, I hope you don’t ‘teach’ the way you ‘argue’.
I agree! We should all be doctors! Or lawyers! Or CEOs! I’m going out to learn how to be a CEO right now!
Yeah, well while we’re all learning how to be lawyers so we can sue each other the Chinese and the Indians and everyone else are studying engineering so that they can actually build the next century.
We are seriously outnumbered.
too many whiners and too many paper pushers in this country who think they actually do something productive in this country. sorry. its the truth.
Well, according to IRS statistics, 259 k a year puts you in the 99th percentile.The median is around 29k.
So, according to you, almost certainly being the wealthiest person in any random group of 100 people is just a matter of “finding a hobby and getting real good.” And any one can easily make over eight times the take home pay of most Americans by- getting another job?
Sorry, that’s nonsense.
And oddly enough, It’s nonsense I only seem to hear repeatedly blathered about by people like Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin.
But, yeah, you’re a proud Hillary supporter. Sure.
‘Nonsense’ is what you wrote. Where did ‘Jeremiah’ say what you said he said? He didn’t. He said that if you want more, you should have to work for it, not stick your hand out to the ‘rich’.
Median income per household member (incl. non-working members) is $23.5K and median household income is $46.3K. But I’m sure we could cherry-pick some different numbers if we wanted.
A single person has to pay 25% of their income at a paltry $32.5K, and a ‘head of household’ pays 25% at only $43.6K of income.
When, on average, the US population watches over 40 hours of TV a week, then, yes, maybe people could make a lot more income if they really wanted to. (Men +4 hrs/day, women +5 hrs/day, total TV each day per household: +8 hrs.)
But when that puts them up in a higher bracket, and they go from paying 15% on their total taxable income to 25% on their total taxable income, then maybe it’s not such a good idea after all.
In the case that I’m married, filing separately, and I have just under $32.5K taxable income, my federal taxes are right at $3250. If I make just over $32.5K taxable, then my taxes are at least $4890. If I make an additional $10,000 more, I only clear about $6K more after taxes, comparing after tax income in the 15% bracket and my new after tax income in the next higher bracket.
But hey, I’m paying my ‘fair, patriotic share’, helping out all those other people who are still sitting at home watching 40+ hrs of TV a week.
And what about the people in New York or Los Angeles. Are they rich on 250k? Hardly. I see some houses in L.A. going for $600k that would be like $50k in my state.
The rich pay a hell of a lot more taxes because they have a hell of a lot more money.
The richest 20% of the population own 84% of the total wealth of the nation. Most of that is concentrated into the upper 10%, who own over 71% of the total.
The lower 60% of the population owns a mere 4%. The bottom 40%, included in that group, own only 0.2% of the total wealth.
The middle class own a little over 11% of the total.
So, who should be paying the most taxes?
The rich already pay more of the tax dollars than any one else.
Its a straw man argument.
They want to claim that because the rich have loopholes they somehow don’t pay taxes but the poor chump who spends his days working at Mickey Ds and his nights wanking on the net downloading porn and playing world of warcraft is actually being soaked.
Its pure democratic bullshit.
It wasnt true 4 years ago.
It wasnt true 8 years ago.
and its not true now.
You seem to have a consistantly low opinion of workers on the bottom end of the wage scale. That’s a republican tendency, I believe.
low wage earners get a the same access to all the federal and state benefits that every one else does. Highways schools the works.
This soak the rich argument is propoganda not fact based.
So what is your point?
That because i don’t think sticking it to the guy who makes the companies that give every one else jobs is the best method means i am republican?
who cares.
According to the meme last week i was a racist for not wanting to vote Obama. being called republican after that is kind of like slapping someone after you stab them in the heart. its kind of pointless.
I have no problem paying my fair share of taxes. And unlike Joe Biden, I do not consider paying taxes morally equal to a charitable contribution. What I do have a problem with is being taxed again and again on the same dang money. Think about the middle class. We work. We pay income tax. We save or invest out of our paychecks, we pay taxes again on interest income or capital gains. How many times is Washington going to tax me on the same damn dollar????
That would be nice if politicians didn’t create a dozen ways that rich people, including Pelosi, Nader, Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and plenty of other rich people in both parties, can shield or hide their money. In the years that Ross Perot ran for President, he paid about 6% effective taxes on his 100’s of millions of income. People like Kennedy, Nader, and Moore have utilized trusts to hide their money from the tax man. Using published rates, or even IRS reports, to say that the rich paid some percentage is misleading when people like Moore pay themselves walking-around money out of their trust, but the trust owns the cars, houses, etc. When you figure out how much tax they actually pay, compared to the income that goes into their trusts or other tax-sheltering schemes and projects, they can actually end up paying less than the 10 or 15 percent the lowest US tax brackets currently pay.
So should we stop pretending we have a ‘progressive’ tax system, and that we can make it ‘more progressive’ by raising the tax rates of the highest brackets (usually jacking the middle brackets up higher as well in the process).
The people that you consider rich pay the majority of the taxes in this country - 40% of Americans
pay no taxes. I really don’t see how that equates
to the rich getting all the breaks. Do not forget
how many people are employed by small business and
how Obama’s tax plan will impact this. I know
because I owned a small business for 25 years.
The republicans make it easier to do business.
Seems like a lot of Democrats are looking for a
hand-out. I think I will stay independent.
I disagree. Leona Hemlsley (sp?) said it best, only the poor pay taxes. Get some lawyers, accountants and buy off the right politicians (Obama and Bush) and you won’t pay a dime in taxes. PS my brother is a CPA for a big accounting firm. He says if you pay taxes you’re too stupid to be rich. He’s a republican.
Strawberry, I wonder why we bother. Don’t you know that if you argue for the wealthy to pay your fair share, it means you hate Small Business, which means you Hate America? Only the poor are tax cheats (must be all those tax attorneys who inhabit trailer parks.)
And if you tax the wealthy, they will stop “giving” the middle class jobs. Christ.
John, the Uber wealthy only see where the next big investment is. If it’s in some third world country and people here suffer, big deal. Survival of the fittest. They’re just being smart investors. Most of these folks here THINK that they are wealthy. They have no clue. FYI. Did you know all those fancy penthouse suites in Vegas hotels are free? They are “comped out” to the wealthy. Yup they are free of charge to the “WHALES” who can afford to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in a few hands of gambling. You or I can’t even buy a night there. That’s the real wealth. $250,000 grand a year…pfffft.
I’d like to know how many of these “$250,000 just means you are working hard” posters think that 99.9 percent of the men and women of our armed forces are lazy and stupid because they will never, EVER approach that salary.
And in that, they are like the vast majority of their fellow Americans, who will work hard and do a fine job and create wealth for forty years or more yet will never become wealthy themselves. Because they are stupid, or Unpatriotic, or lazy, I guess.
John, WTF? I worked several years ago in a tax-prep office, and there are a lot of families with HHIs in the $200,000+ range … the police chiefs and their teacher wives, the nurse specialists married to each other (and many hold more than one job) … all far from “rich”, just people who work their asses off, for many years, usually with the same employer … $250,000 a year is an above-average household income, but does not make you “rich” by any means … not in today’s day and age, esp. in the NJ/NYC metro area.
And more important, small businesses shouldn’t have to pay one extra cent in taxes. Most of these entrepreneurs struggle constantly to stay afloat. Do you know any? Looks like Obama is not the only asshole who doesn’t seem to understand this.
Didn’t Leona go to jail for tax evasion?
I agree that this is the current status. So maybe we should stop pretending we have a ‘progressive’ tax system, scrap it, and go with the FAIR tax system. OR, at least stop pretending that we can make our tax system ‘more progressive’ by raising taxes on the ‘rich’, which invariably also raises taxes on the middle brackets as well. It might also be more honest to stop pretending that we make our system ‘more regressive’ by cutting taxes, even in the case where only the top brackets get the cut.
Since people like Perot, on both the left and right, pay less in taxes as a percentage of their ‘real’ income than even the lowest brackets, what we effectively have is a regressive tax system, and putting people like Pelosi or other rich people in charge of ‘reforming’ the tax system is not going to ever result in ‘real change’.
The tax burden on the wealthy has dropped markedly in the past thirty years. The tax burden on the Middle Class has risen at the same time.
Frankly, I am so fucking sick of hearing people tell me that this candidate or that candidate will be “bad for small business,” I think my head is about to explode. Every rise in the minimum wage is “bad for small business”- actually, it’s only bad for people who want to purchase labor for practically nothing so that they can keep all the profits for themselves.
Here’s what would be “good for small business,” since that’s apparently the standard we should now judge every candidate by- tax cuts for the middle class, because they are the people who actually SPEND THEIR MONEY IN THOSE SMALL BUSINESSES.
I’m all out of tears for the put-upon small business owner who suffers so from the onerous burden of providing a minimum wage, Social Security, etc. and who longs for the Good Old Days when they could pay whatever the market would bear. The dream of small business owners seems to be to become a big business owner, so they can do the Patriotic Thing and ship said business to Mexico or Malaysia and avoid American taxes and wage laws. Yeah, Super Patriotic of you.
Oh, one more thing: Yeah, a lot of people are employed by small businesses. That isn’t charity. Businesses do not “Give People Jobs,” (another cliche that just drives me nuts.) Businesses create jobs to maximize their own opportunities for wealth.
“Republicans make it easier to do business.” Well, if you mean Republicans make it easier for business to screw over labor and maximize profits on the backs of workers, I can’t argue with you. But your suggestion that the rich already pay their share and “a lot of Democrats are just looking for a hand-out”- please. The biggest fucking handout in the history of the United States is about to be approved by Congress, and in case you haven’t noticed, it’s not going to the Middle Class.
Well said. This whole administration has been about profit over all. Who the hell came up with the GOLDEN PARACHUTE? Think about it. These assholes are getting paid if they FAIL!!!!!WTF! It makes your head spin.
Have you ever started a small business? Obviously not. When a business is small, it is all about cost/benefit analysis. People on a micro level make choices that are cost effective, and given the current state of things it mean outsourcing services to other countries. I guess I’m not patriotic.
And when business is big? Or are you arguing that only small businesses just getting started shift jobs overseas?
Oh, and you are right: If you are choosing personal profits over the economic health of your nation, you are NOT Patriotic, by definition. If you are sending your money to offshore accounts to avoid paying your fair share in taxes because “it’s all about cost/benefit analysis,” you are not Patriotic. Being a cheat who has no problem pushing the burden of financing society to your neighbors is not Patriotic.
Hey, you asked.
Yes. I am saying that small business, serices like call center customer service and computer programing, send their work overseas.
Big business started the trend, and small business, strapped with limited capital follow the trend.
Biden is attempting to shift the definition of patriot to be someone that supports pork-barrel government programs.
jennie, rich people have actually legally changed the meaning of “SMALL BUSINESS”. You would vomit if you realized which huge companies can be legally defined as small businesses just to avoid taxes.
Strawberry, I totally agree with you. But at the same time, what about legitate small business? Start-ups, to use a better term. This is legislative problem.
These are companies that grow the economy…
If you are outsourcing your work overseas, WHOSE ECONOMY ARE YOU GROWING??
Consider the alternative. I could not start a business and be on welfare…that would be exceedingly patriotic.
I understand the arguements you are making:
1. what defines a “small business”? This is a very valid point, and I think that congress has defined it so liberally that those who are not struggling to start a business reap the rewards. This is why congress and the president are important.
2. What in the hell is a “patriot”?
Is the patriot law patriotic? Just wondering?
But at the same time, the reality of starting a business is hard. I am going to make myself sound like an asshole, but hiring employees is so difficult. Payroll taxes, workers comp, insurance (just to name a few), you almost have to be a legal scholar to figure this shit out. And the reality is, you don’t have those issues if you go overseas.
I am speaking about a micro decision that exhibits on a macro scale. When you have other employees that depend on your cost effective decision so they can take home a paycheck. This stuff is really important.
Agree with jennie!
It’s very interesting that for almost the entire time that ‘outsourcing’ has been an scape-goat issue, the US has been at what most economists consider ‘full employment’, and that is while we’ve had between 12 and 20 million illegal aliens doing the ‘jobs Americans won’t do’. All the while, America has still continued to manufacture more than ever with mfg. output rising almost exponentially ever since the end of the Great Depression, and productivity has continued to rise. We have seen a ‘loss’ of manufacturing jobs, but it is inaccurate to say that they’ve all gone ‘overseas’. A majority of lost manufacturing jobs has been due to industrial automation, not ‘outsourcing’.
Jennie, I agree totally. Give out more start up loans to women. I would love to start my own business but the SBA only gives to folks like Bush. (Check out micro loans to women in third world countries to see an incredible return on investment and not to mention a cracking good read) But it’s the handouts to Halibuton that piss me off. It’s like they are paid to fail. Read about Safeco and a guy names Rossi if you want to puke. He was brought in to save the company, gutted it, left it barely on life support and bailed, getting millions in a golden parachute deal to boot. So what was his incentive to save the company if he could make more money in a shorter amount of time by causing it to fail? He’s running for governer of my state by the way. Hurl.
Comment by John | 2008-09-21 17:22:05
John, it’s very obvious you know nothing about running a small business. I do run a small business: have been running it for 30 years, 30 really hard years. It’s a business which people think is hugely successful but with taxes, payroll, insurances etc, I really would be better off working for someone else. I often wish I could sell it — you know why I don’t? Because I have people working for me who need their jobs. I know many others who own their own businesses, and they would tell you the same thing. We really need a break. I also know many who have gone under though they were actually doing a good job.
People like you who make a lot of noise on a subject you reveal you know nothing about do your fellow citizens a serious disservice.
You have a soul. You are a patriot. It’s the uber rich that take jobs over seas, use the Cayman islands as tax shelters, gut companies to “save them” than use their golden parachutes to give them millions when the companies fail. We’re not talking about you. We’re talking about the Haliburtons of the world (CHENEY) who just moved it headquarters to the middleeast to avoid…taxes prosecution…whatever.
OH BULLSHIT!!!
I have heard EVERYTHING now. Now I have some business owner telling me that owning the business is a burden but out of the goodness of his heart, he’s going to keep it open for the good of his workers! Oh, what martyrs you business owners are!
You should get the fricking Congressional Medal of Honor for all the sacrifices you have made to provide jobs to the children of Malaysia and the Maldives, when you’d MUCH RATHER being doing something else– you know what sickens me? When businesses keep their factories here in the USA, when there are so many more needy people in the far-flung corners of the world. I hope your workers appreciate what an amazing person you are, cutting them checks every two weeks purely out of the goodness of your heart- or do you just throw sacks of dimes from the balcony? Are your workers aware of what you put yourself through to provide them with jobs? I really doubt it- most laborers in this country are such selfish lazy bastards.
really, thanks for the laugh. That made my day, it really did.
So John, let’s say the above business owner employs 10 people and decides to go out of business to work for someone else. She takes on 1 other job and leaves 10 people out of work. I do believe that someone could have a HEART and care for those 10 people. I understand how YOU would have no concept of that since you are obviously closed minded and apparently have been burned by some ‘evil corporation’. When you own a business, THEN come back and talk to us. Until then, spare us, you have no clue.
And why do you work in whatever position it is that you have (assuming you have a job). I’m pretty much guessing it’s to put food on the table and pay your bills…not out of the ‘goodness of your heart’. Of course some profit is involved in every job or business. Why wouldn’t it be? If you’re not out for a profit, then why don’t you give your paychecks to a neighbor.
Self-admittedly you are a teacher (while lauditory) means you know nothing about starting or managing a business.
I won’t tell you how fun it is to write a lesson plan (which is hella hard) so don’t tell islander and i how easy it is to run a business.
These debates are really important thought, and I appreciate this website for discourse.
My mom was a teacher until she retired at about age 60 to start her own business. (She got tired of being mandated by the state to spend weeks teaching first-graders MS Power Point, and other equally moronic, counter-productive stuff. Could we possibly teach them to READ before we bother teaching them to use a program that might actually be passe by the time they get around to actually needing to use it?!)
She bought a successful franchise that basically did elder-sitting — NOT nursing care, not medical care of any sort. She thought, and still thinks this is exactly the kind of thing she would like to do, but…
Shortly after starting the business, along with all the standard tax and regulation stuff mentioned by others in this thread, she had to deal with medical and nursing associations lobbying the state legislature to create new regulations that affected elderly-sitting. Suddenly she and all her employees had to have all sorts of training and certifications to simply undertake the task of ‘elderly-sitting’, never mind that they never intended to provide any sort of medical care or assistance. This was all because high-priced nurses and nursing homes were seeing a portion of their business go to lower cost providers, so regulatory hurdles were erected to make such business far less viable. The result for people like us that need someone to watch an elderly relative for a weekend at the house is that it can cost almost as much as just hiring a freaking nurse.
Unfortunately, this isn’t an isolated case or unusual story. The same thing goes on across the US in all manners of services and industries. Always, the regulations are for the ‘good of the people’. Can’t have untrained, uncertified people baby-sitting our elderly relatives! Can’t have ‘uncertified’ people selling coffins for less online. Oops, it’s not enough to have a degree in physics and education, either. YOU can’t be a teacher until you get ‘certified’. (I’ll put ANY 10 home schooled kids up against any 10 kids taught by ‘certified’ teachers using a state curriculum any day of the week.)
What’s going overlooked in that statement is the invisible tax that results from federal deficit spending. That invisible tax is inflation.
Deficit spending and borrowing have resulted in a 41% decline in the value of the dollar since George W. Bush took office. Since real wages have declined during the same period, that constitues a tax on the 40% who–on paper at least–pay no federal taxes.
The recent Wall Street bailouts will be paid for in a similar fashion. The people who will bear the burdon won’t be the people who will most benefit.
$6.99 for a pound of bloody tomatoes?!!!! And I’m not talking organic either.
Excellent point. No one is talking about inflation (or possibly stagflation with the job market).
It’s looking like the 70’s, without the fun of studio 54.
Or the platform shoes.
Or the bell bottoms!
“Since real wages have declined during the same period…”
The term ‘real wages’ is defined as wages after inflation, so you can’t whine about ‘real wages’ falling AND inflation as if they are two separate evils. It makes you look ignorant.
Furthermore, the inflation rate over the whole period of Bush has been 25%, and will edge a bit higher by the end of the year. The prior eight years was 22.8%. Given the shocks to the economy of 9/11, and the oil price differences in the two time periods, should the difference in inflation over the two different periods really be the basis for any sort of histrionics?
Finally, the changing demographics in who gets paid what are hard to factor into a generic ‘real wage’. Is it affected by or does it ignore the 12 to 20 million illegals? What about the changing workforce, with increasing numbers of individuals beginning to go into retirement, etc. The only ‘official’ real-wage numbers I could find go through 2004, and don’t show any sort of drop over time. The most you can say for the 2000-2004 period is that the rate of increase had lessened.
If you want a job do you go to a street person of a person with money?
Sure you can tear down the rich. Then who will you go to for a job?
What happens to the economy when the government runs out of rich people to rip off (um, tax)?
Encouraging wealth creation strengthens the economy.
Screwing over the Middle Class and handing rich people more tax cuts doesn’t “encourage wealth creation.” It just encourages the creation and protection of an elite wealthy class.
“Who will you go to for a job?” Grow the hell up, please. Wealthy people don’t hand out jobs like candy. They create jobs to enhance their own ability to create wealth FOR THEMSELVES.
“What happens to the economy when the government runs out of rich people to rip off?” Oh yeah, because declining tax rates on the wealthiest Americans for the past thirty years is REALLY ripping off wealthy Americans. I have an idea of what happens when the Govt targets tax cuts to the Middle Class- debts get paid, and everyone prospers because the Middle Class spends money.
Oh sorry, there I go engaging in “Class Warfare” again.
Middle class taxes are a lot lower than they were under clinton.
or did you miss that one.
Its the same old meme
Say you are gonna soak the rich to make the
poor vote for you…yeah sure.
Been there DOne that…
This is utter bullshit. Almost without exception, new start-up business are funded by wealthy people, either directly or through their investments in venture capital funds.
What do you think rich people do with their money? Keep it under the mattress? Keep it all in CDs at the bank? Hardly.
What they do is that they re-deploy it into the capital markets. The same is true of profitable businesses. That’s why lower taxes tend to stimulate economic growth. A greater percentage of the nation’s GDP ends up being depolyed productively as opposed to being controlled by wasteful, ineffecient government.
This is a fundamental truth that liberals have never been able to figure out. Yes, the rich get the benefit of any tax cut because they pay the greatest share of taxes to begin with.
Rich people look for the best investments possible. Not the best AMERICAN investments possible. That’s how they became rich.
Well if american government structures things in such a way to drive rich people to invest their money in foriegn countries, maybe you should have a talk with uncle sam instead of bitching about daddy warbucks.
should read maybe we should not you should.
You’re right. Under Bush, the loopholes have become huge. That’s what Hillary was talking about. Not raising taxes but closing loopholes, making people accountable for destroying companies and moving headquarters to a post office box in the Cayman islands.
which is significantly different from what the Hairplugs president and the Hope peddler are talking about…claiming they are only going to increase taxes on the rich as a way to get poor votes.
and the people doing that (raping companies and moving the offices to the cayman islands) is a very tiny portion of the entrepenuers and business owners in this country.
There are people on youtube claiming that the only solution is to exterminate white people…should we use that as an argument to restrict the second ammendment rights of that group? if not then how can you make broad generalizations against the “rich” its just propoganda and class warfare designed to seperate people from each other and play the blame game instead of working together for the common economic good. kind of funny that the post racial post partisan candidate is bringing people together in this way…lol.
I have to laugh!!!
Start-ups are more often than not begun by the little guy who mortgages his/her house, borrows from family, credit cards to begin something. I know because we were one of those and I have many friends who were/are. Some lost everything because they could not compete against giants, or like we did when my mother had a heart attack, and her business partner died unexpectedly after a stroke at 43. The most difficult part was telling our workers we had to let them go. All the small business owners I know find letting go of people the most difficult thing of all. People become like family and you know what it will do to them and their families.
I am still paying on the loan my mom took out, 10 years later, because she refused to file bankruptcy, finding that that was dishonorable.
As far as Obama. Please look at his economic plan carefully. I make mid-five figures, and my taxes would double. This means that the help I give my children for college, and caring for my mom would become even more impossible.
The rich invest their money in businesses that employ the rest of us at a living wage, and so we should be grateful to them for seeing to our needs? How Gilded Age of them.
Rich people who own the stock in corporations believe they have a vested interest in paying people the absolute minimum they can, because they don’t think in terms of long term productivity, but short term profits. ONLY short term profits.
To prove my thesis, you have only to look at illegal immigration. It exists because there are rich people and corporations willing to pay slave wages to illegal workers as a way to increase profits. If they could ENSLAVE those illegal immigrants, they would. Look at what Tom DeLay and those other fuckers did in the Maldives — they fucking enslaved those people and that’s AMERICAN soil!
These are the same people who send jobs overseas so they can pay people less. They’re the same ones who gut the government and put the jobs on private contractors, thus taking the tax money in the form of payments for services, but then not delivering what they’re paid to do.
They’re the same people who let GE but both NBC and “homeland security” contractors, thus giving GE a profit motive for reporting the most bad news the highest possible number of times.
I don’t want to hear about how these goddamned ROBBER BARONS have my interests at heart, when it should be apparent to everyone that they’d kill us all if there was a dollar to be made.
Why doesn’t someone mention the huge price increases that the Unions in this country are responsible for? Or the fact that people insist on living above what they can afford and do so by choice? There is blame all around and now is the time to try to find the best way out of some of this mess. All I know, is I don’t want some greenhorn candidate who is beholden to corporate crooks on Wall Street and has terrorist friends to be the faux leader of this country. There is a chance that JMc is as honest as he appears to be, with a record of being willing to admit mistakes and trying to rectify them and is willing to tackle these problems with the country as the first priority. It is a huge undertaking and it is not a time to learn on the job nor to have shadow men playing behind the scenes. If OB gets in, all bets are off.
Rich people don’t provide jobs. Regular people who need goods and services provide jobs.
If paying more taxes is more patriotic, then paying no taxes but being otherwise entitled to an IRS check in the form of tax credits, i.e., sucking from the teat of government, must be unpatriotic, and more unpatriotic to expect even greater credits. Obama wants to increase tax credits to those who do not pay taxes by raising taxes of the people who already account for 80% of the tax revenues collected. Quid ergo demonstratum, Obama is unpatriotic.
Yup, like I said, rich people don’t pay taxes. IE they are not patriotic. The rich MAKE the loop holes that they squeeze through.
ok bites, claiming rich people dont pay tazes is like claiming Selma Alabama got Barack Born. Its patently untrue.
Like I said JGDAW. I’m well off. Not Uber rich but well off. My brother is a VERY well off person at a big accounting firm whose clients are worth at the very minimum, 2 million. The poor guy has to keep up every year with all the new tax laws and trust me, very few of those new laws benefit me or you. You don’t have the cash to buy that kind of influence. And again, my VERY well off brother pays less taxes than you because he’s smarter and more ruthless than you. He has made a killing under Bush and doesn’t see things changing under either Obama or McCain. Hillary scared the shit out of him. The rich became rich because they are vicious and cold hearted and cheap. Ask any waitperson who waits on the wealthy about the lousy tips they get.
ok, hang on. lets ask the denny’s waitresses who leaves better tips too.
Come on lits stop with the blatent generalizations.
I have freinds who are waiters, and was a waiter at both middle class and very swanky joints when i was going to college in DC.
Trust me, the cheapest american tippers are the young and the, ok i don’t want to be called a racist so i wont say anything else on that one. But the best tips always came consistantly from corporate clients or wealthy people. they consistantly paid 20% tips.
The absolute worst tippers by far though were foreigners because in socialized europe the tip is included in the meal and the subsequent service is lousy.
Your brother may have his own agenda about pitching about the rich. lets not take your borther as the authority on tazation of the wealthy. lets look at actualy studies. I am sure your brother is a fine person but seriously.
Also earlier you mentioned Leona Helmsly waying The Rich don’t pay taxes.
You forgot to mention she ended up going to jail for that and payed some damn hefty fines.
What you did there is exactly what Obama and his surrogates do, they snip the part of the historical fact to bolster their argument and ignore the rest of the facts because it doesnt. Thats not who i thought you were from the many months we have been posting here.
Where is the real strawberry and what have you done with her?
Dude, I’m still here. And did I tell you I was a rich little bitch as well? Graduated from private schools. Sat side by side with movie stars’ kids who drove Porches to school. I hated those pricks because they were mean, selfish, arrogant and saw anyone who didn’t have money as animals. If you could have seen how the treated the scholarship kids. And they got away with getting busted for coke in the bathroom or punching teachers by having their parents but the new scoreboard for the football field. They got rich because they were like that dickhead mineowner who put profit before his workers lives and got them killed. I have no problem with getting rich, just don’t fuck anyone over to get there. Like I said, I’m pretty well off. But it was because of Bill Clinton and his policies and my hard working blue collar turned white collar husband.
but again you are talking about a very small segment of Rich america. Most people who are wel off got there becaue they are decent and hard working not because they were jackasses with trust funds or middle eastern money and interests propping them up and helping them pay for coke habits nd ivy league eductions….like obama.
Again, I don’t consider people making half a million or less rich. Well off, perhaps. But not in any position to push policy. It’s the uber wealthy I’m talkin about. The Bushs, Morgans, Carnegies, Saudi Royal Family etc. They are the “Whales” of the ocean and we are nothing but brine shrimp, ie sea monkeys.
My mother works in philanthropy, and her job is to figure out what nice way you can dress up a cause and get rich people to come to the party where they will drop off enough tax deductible money to move down an income bracket. Usually, by the time all the salaries are paid and the overhead is figured in, there’s not that much that actually goes to charity. It mostly goes to the parties, which is actually becoming a problem. They’re beginning to complain the parties are boring, they hate everyone and would rather just write a check.
Hope, that’s the sad part. Some of the charities are run by the rich folks’ spouses just to give the wives something to do, make them appear caring and hip and a great way to write off imported caviar.
Do you think 35% is not enough? What should they pay 50%? 80%? The top 20% of earners already pay 80% of the taxes in the U.S. The bottom 40% pay no taxes. How much should the rich have to pay? I am not rich, have never been rich. I am a small busines person and I can appreciate the work that people have had to do to become rich. Do you think they just sat around on their asses to make their money? Hell no. But they should give even more to the government because another person’s greatest effort is to work at a fast food joint? Or maybe they’re sitting around on their asses and collecting welfare? I have worked my ass of 7 days a week for 8 years so far, and still counting. For 3 years I did not even take a day off..not a weekend off..not a holiday. You cannot imagine the toll that takes on a human being. After years of effort, if I were to become rich, I would deserve it. If I have money to invest, I don’t want the government taking 28% of my profits. If I sell my house, I don’t want them taking 28% of my profits. If I inherit land that has been in my family for generations, I don’t want to sell it just to be able to pay the death tax that Obama wants to reinstate. What I want to see is every politician working on saving everyone money. Politicians don’t need their fancy offices and jets (Nancy Pelosi). I don’t think that politicians are superstars or celebrities. I think they are our public servants and they should be very careful with our money. Learn to cut costs like Wal-Mart does. When they do that, THEN they can ask me to pay more in taxes.
I don’t think anyone should pay more taxes. I think
Trust me on this one. No they don’t. If they do then they have stupid people handling their money. Hire my brother. He’s a ruthless SOB and can ferret out everyway possible of hiding…cough, er…saving you money.
well then, its people like your brother who are the problem.
Report him to the IRS if you want to do your part to make sure the rich pay their fair share.
What Strawberry is describing is the Laffer Curve, which economists love to sneer at, but it is indisputable fact. There is a certain point where people will feel they are paying too much in taxes and be tempted to cheat the government. Like a good salesperson finding that magic price tag, when tax rates are set, you look at tax rates and tax revenue and adjust accordingly. Or people like Strawberry’s brother will hide their money, and everything gets passed on to the middle class, anyway… usually in consumption taxes.
It legal Jeremiah. Like I said, bro knows the law inside and out. He works 12 hour days finding legal ways for his clients to keep their cash. That’s why he makes the big money and he knows how to invest it. He’ll retire before he’s 40. All 100 percent legal. I find it unethical to keep the money circulating only among the extremly wealthy but then again I’m a true liberal democrat. He’s a republican who thinks guys like you defending him are great. Stupid but useful idiots. Even he says these are the loopholes that need to be closed. I just think you’re being naive.
Well if its legal, why are we complaining?
Is it because its immoral?
I don’t get how you can on the one hand complain about the rich getting away with it but then say your borther who knows every loophole and every way to cheat taxcodes is legal and your ok with that.
Well, who can trust Obama on taxes? He has flipped on that. He flips everytime somone blinks and so you may have missed it:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1839372,00.html
I swear that man is a secret republican. He won’t roll back the tax cuts for the rich, which that and the Iraq war is where he is claiming to get the money to pay for all his programs. Yep. Zero from the zero because he won’t be able to pay for it.
First off he can’t pay for stuff without the money from the rich. period. Not to mention if the economy sucks until 2010, those tax cuts will stay in place. You sure gotta hope Obama puts it on his calendar or something, don’t ya?
Second he can’t pay for stuff from money saved on the Iraq war because oh, well, we’re going deeper into Afghanistan and Pakistan. The money will be needed there.
So, let me ask you. what exactly will Obama accomplish without the money he needs to pay for anything? Just like he’s accomplished so far. Zippo. He’ll just sit with his feet up on the desk and once in a while wave out the window to his adoring fans (if he still has any) like the royal family does. And other than that he’ll watch his friends get rich and the rest of us get poor.
And if you say, well, hell, that article says he is going to cut taxes for the middle class and that’s me, yeah! Well, again, no money for any programs? How will he get stuff done? He won’t.
Won’t the next 4 years of staying stagnant be fun?
Barack Obama simply can’t wait to impose the biggest tax increase in American history. Do not for one second believe otherwise.
I never believe any politician who says no new taxes or tax cut. That never happens. When they cut taxes in one area, they just raise them in another.
My Governor pledged no new taxes and he has stcuk to it on the state level. I’ll give him that. However, he has imposed certain “fees”, taxes by a different name. Also it all cam e down to the local level when the schools, etc. needed money. My property taxes have more than tripled in the last several years. tripled! Would a slight state tax increase have been less money? I have not yet figured that out, but I do know it was a tax increase regardless of the promise of no new taxes.
You can not listen to a poltician promising you to keep your money. They want your money or they wouldn’t be a politician.
When one says No New Taxes and his running mate says Mo New Taxes, you can bet that The N is a lot closer to the M than we are trying to be led to believe.
Because they never cut spending. How would it look if they took things away from the govt. programs that people have their hands out for? You know, the ones who could work, but why should they when the gravy train stops by with the tax dollars that those of us who own businesses or work our heads off for supply? It’s a mess of never ending blame and all of us share in causing it. The more the govt. trys to take care of it all the less freedom we have. I’ve never been a libertarian, but I’m beginning to think they are on to something. I’d rather manage my own life than have the government controlling it. And that’s what’s happening at warp speed these days. Obama will be a catalyst for it to go even faster. This horror is coming closer and I am afraid for the first time in my life that my America is not going to be the land of the free anymore.
I swear to God, that’s what most of the people voting for him think that. They don’t understand how government works, and they think McCain would do the same despicable things Obama has done. Since Obama is just being a “typical politician.” So, why not vote in a liar who at least makes blacks feel better about themselves and will deliver our nation from the stain on its history which is slavery? I would be all for it, if I hadn’t investigated Obama’s record more and seen how he really destroyed people’s lives, worked against real change and thwarted democracy during the primary season.
I think the race card is not played for a guilt trip to earn votes—that just does not work—Obama plays that card over and over because it stirs up his key base—AAs, the truly liberal left and the msm. He plays it over and over because it works. They get all fired up and freaky.
When you dont have the truth on your side, race baiting is the next best thing.
Obama needs to deflect blame from his own stances. For example, here are a list of questions that help illustrate why Obama isn’t pulling away from McCain… here are genuine questions to ask when people ask you why you are a racist because you won’t vote for Obama.
Enjoy:
Do you contest the fact that Obama helped grant yet more imperial powers for George W. Bush by supporting the evisceration of FISA? Was Obama a willing participant in granting what Bush desired but should never have received?
Did he or did he not flipflop on his promise and grant retroactive telecom immunity for those involved in the warrantless wiretapping of Americans in contravention of the United States Constitution?
Do you contest that Barack Obama voted for Cheney’s Oil Bill in 2005?
Did he or did he not say he could no more disown his pastor (Rev. Wright) than he could his own grandmother? His grandmother, who raised him and paid for his private school education while growing up in Hawaii (where are these food stamps?), should run for cover because Obama disowned his pastor just a few short weeks after making his statement. Take note “typical white woman”, with Obama, you never know who will be unceremoniously flushed next.
Do you contest that Barack Obama supports the stupid idea of Faith Based Initiatives, a position Bush-haters rightfully mocked just a few years ago when Bush first introducted them? Even when organizations are proven to be hostile to civil rights, it doesn’t seem to faze Obama’s FBI pandering which is rather odd for a former self-professed “civil rights lawyer”. Giving taxpayer money to organizations that may be hostile to women, LGBT, and other minority groups seems rather odd for someone who uses the word progressive like a club.
Did he or did he not water down nuclear regulations in return for campaign contributions from Excelon? Did he or did he not receive over $200,000 from Excelon?
Did he or did he not buy out superdelegates even if state or district voters clearly indicated they preferred Hillary?
Did he or did he not provide earmarks to ADM for soybean research and accepted use of their corporate jet on two occasions (and then publicly back corn-based ethanol, which ADM is a big producer of?
Did he or did he not add University of Chicago hospitals to the list of earmarks in the following year they granted his wife a 160% pay increase? Given the money involved, it seems their investment in the wife of their Senator may have paid off handsomely.
Continuing on the topic of those popular Congressional earmarks, didn’t Obama vote down reallocating those funds towards Katrina relief? In effect, did he not vote in favour of maintaining funding for the “Bridge to Nowhere” over the need for reconstruction monies for New Orleans and the Gulf Coast?
During his parttime job as an Illinois legislature, was he not the sole vote against a sex crimes bill which he believed would somehow be viewed as unconstitutional, yet still is on the books uncontested even today? Maybe he voted “present” for this? It’s hard to tell since he voted that way over 100 times in his Illinois state career.
Did he or did he not run for ever-higher office on five separate occasions in the last eleven years? He is not a legislator. He’s a professional campaigner.
Did he or his campaign criticize Hillary Clinton for being a member of the Walmart board then suddenly hire the biggest (and silliest) proponent of Walmart to head his economics team? Jason Furman says that Walmart is a boon to the American worker because of its low prices, all while neglecting to mention that Walmart is one of the principle causes of why Americans are getting poorer in the first place.
Did he or did he not get caught issuing a campaign-wide email describing how to distort Bill Clinton’s “fairy tale” comment to create the appearance of the Clintons being racists in order to achieve a much needed South Carolinian victory?
Did he or did he not limp across the finish line during the final days of the primary? How could this be an indication of party strength or support? He lost every single major battle and most (if not all) of the CLOSED Democratic primaries. The word closed here is extremely important because Obama encouraged Republicans to be “a Democrat for a day” in the open primaries he actually managed to win.
Do you contest that Barack Obama has proposed troop expansion of the US military by at least another 90,000 exactly how Bush Secretary of Defense has proposed?
Did he or did he not say that no option was off the table vis-a-vis Iran at his AIPAC speech near the midpoint of 2008? The exact quote from beginning to end is this: “I’ll do everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. Everything.” Forgive me if I think this sounds like GOP posturing … because it is.
On the issue of Jerusalem, did he not undermine years of American posturing in saying that Jerusalem is indivisable and part of Israel? His quote before the same AIPAC crowd follows: “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.” It was reported that career State department officials reeled in anger at just how badly Obama screwed up relations in the region as a whole with his single, probably unscripted, comment. This is an instance of Obama’s pandering threatening the hard work done by many people. Something, would you not agree, that Bush has a reputation for doing himself? Obama should heed his own advice and remember “words matter.”
Did he or his campaign browbeat Blair Hull to unseal his divorce records to expose allegations (still unproven) of spousal abuse, then do the same to his GOP opponent in order to secure his own election to the US Senate? All signs indicate yes to this question.
Do you contest that Barack Obama maintained Bush’s silly little idea of a winnable “War on Terror”? Their only difference is that Obama’s central front is slightly in the eastward direction of Iraq and could include Afghanistan’s neighbor, the nuclear-armed Pakistan. With Bush, McCain or Obama, it’s still bombs-a-flyin’! Rand corporation recently published an article that showed that in the entire history of modern terrorism, of the over 600 groups, none have EVER been found defeated militarily. I thought Obama was smart and well-versed? Instead, he’s pandering and pushing militarism in many extremely similar to George W. Bush.
Do you contest that the very same corporations that gave to Bush in 2000 and 2004 are not giving money to Barack Obama? Do not begin with the bundling silliness; we are all aware that it’s a distinction without a difference.
Did he or did he not require the financial services of the now convicted Chicago slumlord Tony Rezko to help the Obama family purchase their dream mansion in Chicago?
Is Obama lying when he said that Franklin Raines, disgraced Fannie Mae executive, never gave mortgage and economic advice to him when Washington Post has written on two occasions that Raines has.
Is Obama’s famous “Say on Pay” bill more than window dressing? A non-binding vote by shareholders on executive pay is pointless. I guess actually forcing corporations into being responsible citizens isn’t an Obama forte. Eerily GOP-like, don’t you think? Self-regulation of industry has been a disaster which makes his anti-McCain disingenuous to the point of being flagrant lies.
Did he or did he not “blow” over $100M in the failed Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which Obama ran for years and ended up showing next to nothing for its efforts? I guess Bush isn’t the only one who can squander a hundred million of someone else’s money.
Do you contest that former Bush “Pioneers” are not working for the Obama campaign?
Has Obama adopted this idea of “merit pay” for teachers? A long-standing Republican desire in their attempts to destroy the public education system. Obama seems to adopt the silliest of GOP positions. Illegal wiretapping, faith-based initiatives, rampant militarism, etc.
Did he or did he not put forward a market-based solution for the market-based failure that is American healthcare? Market solutions are a staple of the Right and has been shown to be a stellar failures in virtually all instances.
Did he or did he not indicate in writing that he would consult with John McCain before backing out of his commitment for public financing?
Did he or did he not deliberately miss the “Stop Excessive Speculation Act” which would have taken some measures against price manipulations but Obama did manage to find the time to show up and vote Bush even more imperial wiretapping powers?
Did he or did he not accuse his opponents of being out of touch, then turns around and drops his kids off at a private school using a five SUV motorcade? It is hard to claim your opponent is out of touch when you go before multimillionaires in San Francisco and lambast middle America for clinging and then repeat the same by having Barbara Streisand singing songs before his $28500 a plate fundraiser in Hollywood.
Did Obama not say that Democrats should lay off criticism of Bush Supreme Court appointees like Chief Justice Roberts? If we wanted to hear a hatchet man from the White House defending Bush’s flawed court appointments, we’d tune into Arlen Specter or a Rick Santorum, not a supposed Democrat.
Did he or did he not support the party nominated anti-War Senate candidate Ned Lamont? We know for a fact that Obama did NOT endorse Ned Lamont but chose instead to endorse the biggest pro-War Democrat in the US Senate, Joe Lieberman. Did Obama appoint to his VP spot someone who was anti-war? Hardly, he nominated five-deferrment Chickenhaw Joe Biden, who was instrumental in 2002 in stacking testimony before his foreign relations committee to prevent critics of military action against Iraq, notably Brent Scowcroft and Scott Ritter.
Did he or did he not vote for Bush’s “Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act”? This is a bit of a trick question. Like a broken clock, Bush can be right sometimes.
Did he or did he not vote for the “Class Action Fairness Act” in 2005 which undermined the ability of average Americans from seeking compensation from corporate malfeasance? This greatly illustrates his Bush-like pro-corporate fetish which, when you also recall other instances, like his silly “Say on Pay”, Cheney’s Oil Bill and the recent retroactive telco immunity, he’s GOP as much as McCain or Bush.
Did he or did he not have a huge press conference about the rampant problems in the financial industry and then have a $1000 a plate dinner hosted by … Credit Suisse in their offices last March, one of the worst subprime lenders of this whole mess?
Did he or did he not say that had he been Senator during the Iraq War Resolution debate he could possibly have voted for this resolution? Between this, his lack of support for Ned Lamont, and giving Bush all the war money he asks for, it is clearly evident that Obama is not the anti-War candidate he had positioned himself when unseating Hillary Clinton.
Do you have a source for that list?
Nothing there I mentioned is a secret. You can google most of it.
I’m thinking of expanding the list to also include Bill Ayers. This list was originally done for another forum when some Obamabot claimed another poster was fixated on Bill Ayers. I responded that Obama is more GOP and Obama merely had a friendship of convenience with Ayers, like Obama does with other people.
Obama is a consumate user and has no desire but power. If that means he has to be a leftist imposter, so be it, but it’s clear that from his legislative record that Obama is as much beholden to lobbyists, K-Street and Wall Street as any other.
I am going to vote for McCain by casting my ballot for him, and I will vote for Obama by drinking Black Russians naked in my living room while dancing to Nigerian Disco from the 70’s. One occasion is marked by gravitas and the other by cheerful, reckless irresponsibility.
Friends don’t let friends vote Democratic drunk.
KENYAN disco… with picture of Raila Odingo and some dead non-muslims on the big screen…
Meh. I was trying to think outside of the box and avoid some montage from The Last King of Scotland. Which was Uganda in the 70’s but same dif. Plus, the Lagos City music scene then was really sweet.
I prefer white russians. does that make me a racist?
btw
I wrote that post.
I will not vote for Obama because I do not trust him to do what is best for the country. His recent comments about the free market system made me even trust him less. He is for full government control and I am not so he will not be getting my vote even if he is non-white.
Obama is caught between a rock and a big-government hard place. He has to support the 700 billion dollar bail out of the financial sector because he knows that will be the only right vote of record to keep our financial system from crashing - within days. Yes, crashing. Why else are all political sides racing without argument to stop the bleeding, collapsing dominos?
Only problem is, there goes all the government’s discretionary spending for the next 20 years. There goes universal health care and tax cuts for the middle class and green jobs and…and…(choke!)
So where does that leave the platform of Barack Obama? Flat broke, that’s where.
Donna Brazile, Obama’s guardian angel, actually argued on This Week today that we should wait to stop the financial collapse until sometime AFTER THE ELECTION! No transparency in that one, Donna. To hell with the country, let’s just screw everybody in the electorate and anything in sight to get her chosen limp noodle elected?
This bail out infuriates me - not that it has to be done (it does), but that George Bush let things get this far - and that THE DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS DID NOTHING DURING THE CRUCIAL LAST FEW MONTHS TO AVOID THIS CATASTROPHE.
Donna and Obama know full well that the bail out is going to happen and that as soon as it is a matter of record, McCain is going to start asking how the Democrats are going to pay for all that CHANGE!
I saw that comment By Donna Wanna, she’s up there saying what’s the rush?
Clueless.
So where does that leave the platform of Barack Obama? Flat broke, that’s where.
You watch. Race as an issue is not what will determine the next POTUS.
BO is a dangerous individual. This problem is not going anywhere. It will get worse.
BO;
Ahh, ummm,the notion that…I need a wall street wheel barrel… is so Rezko.
what are you talking about.
The democrats are directly responsible for this catastrophe and impeded regulation for it over the past 3 years when it started getting out of hand.
Go do your research please.
The Democrats ran a block for freddie and fannie till they couldnt cover it up anymore.
The Democrats ran a block for freddie and fannie till they couldnt cover it up anymore.
They sure did and the American public has been sacked deep in the backfield once again by the dems this season.
yep.
Making housing affordable for everybody was the hope.
Opening the lending market to shadey dillignece and sleazy lenders who would make it work was the change.
I understand that all these bad mortgages came about because of pressure by government types put on lenders to write mortgages for illegal aliens. Once the lending process was dumbed down to accommodate illegals, citizens who had no means to afford a homes poured through the floodgates. Lenders even had a trade name for these loans - “pulse” loans: if you have a pulse, you get a loan.
yep
Well….I will speak for me. Being a bitter, clinging to gun, and bible half black hispanic- I can actually tell these media idiots that I have no intention of voting for him now or in the near future! So- let the media spin that I am a racist- even though I am half black myself. They, dear Charles, are full of Sh….t! And forgive me for saying that!
Look….I can say the Republicans have been very good this year. The democrats are the ones that are using all sorts of cards. You don’t see the usual “drag queens ads parades and telling everybody that they are damned>”have you? No. So, these people better stop bothering the right wing or they are going to see some nasty ads soon. Take your race card and you know where it goes.
Charles, you remind me of BTD from talkleft. You are wise in your thinking. since you will be voting for Obama, thats all that I’ll say.
Captain Howdy wrote that, I think…
This post is not mine actually. It is from my blog and was written by a guest contributor. I welcome all views but I will not be voting for Obama under any circumstances.
Susan can pull my posts from my blog. She has that authority, unfortunately this one was an inadvertant error. The post was written Capt. Howdy. It is a good post but it does not reflect my own position.
Charles Lemos
thank goodness, i was starting to worrry!
Good. I had to read it twice. I didn’t think you were an Obama supporter.
Even though it may be your last free vote. Think CHAVEZ…
wise in his thinking? i don’t agree. he has a right to state it and i have a right say it is very wrong headed. that’s all i’ll say in this post, BENNY.
Agreed! I trust McCain. This party doesn’t hold the values or principles of Clinton supporters, so in my opinion you are only “selling out” by supporting Obama and the new corrupt way of the DNC. The new DNC are fascists. They tell people how to vote by voter grouping! The “tolerant” left have become very intolerant. I urge anyone who supported Clinton and will not support Obama to merge into one strategy: the two vote cancellation to reform this Party. Not voting for Obama is good, but voting for McCain is better! You not only take a vote form Obama, ou give one to McCain. For may of you in the primaries your vote didn’t count once! You now have the chance to have your vote count twice! If you think you are voting against principles, look again. McCain is a centrist that will work with Democrats. He’s probably closer to your views than you think! Obama is not. If you’re worried about doing what’s best for our futures the answer is simple: John McCain! If you are worried McCain isn’t liberal enough, just ask Republicans! Obama will destroy our country and the Democratic Party forever! Vote smart,vote twice!
McCain/Palin 08!
I agree dude….fascist they are…I am very scared. Americans have no clue what they are in for…and we deserve it for our lack of vigilance and respect for this countries founding principle.
To hell we shall go…and maybe then, if we are lucky, we’ll put the cracked egg together again
Read this (the most important read of a lifetime):
“LIBERAL FASCISM” by Jonah Goldberg
I beg you all to read it. To Obama supporters…you will reap what you sow…fascists always turn on their own kind first…visciously. Have Fun with your CHANGE!
Ditto!
Country First
Then 4 years to work on getting the radicals out of the DNC. I want my Party back.
In the past, I could have understood the argument that any Democrat in the White House is better than a Republican in the White House.
I started out carefully studying the candidates in the primary. I didn’t choose Hillary right away, but I did choose her fairly early to be MY candidate.
It was because I found her the best all around. I also did because I could see she would appeal to the base of the party–and by that I did not mean the MSM, the Hollywood elite, or the ivory tower intellectuals.
I can not and will not vote Obama, not because I object to half of his racial background but because I object to people who do not support democracy. I honesly, completely feel his campaign waged an illegal, unethical primary, abbetted by the DNC.
This time, the Democrats deserve to lose the presidential election for placing a candidate who does not believe in fair elections at the top of the ticket–and because they did this despite 18 million Democrats telling them not to.
PUMA!!!!
I couldn’t agree with you more, Diana. This sums up my sentiments to a tee. I firmly believe that if Obama is elected, that will send a message to the Dem leaders to carry on their unethical behavior. And if we think they’re bad now, just wait. If Barry’s elected, we “ain’t” seen nothing yet.
Yes, I’m still livid over the way the Elite sabatoged the Clintons - and Hillary will always be my 1st choice, bar none. But as an American, I am more terrified by the arrogance of the DNC.
That’s why my vote, for the 1st time, will go GOP - McCain/Palin, proudly.
McCain/Palin ‘08
Hillary ‘12
Exactly.
Hi, dee4hill — nice to see you here!!
If the Dem Party leaders acted this way in their presidential primary, what do you think goes on in their districts, states and the halls of congress? What would make any of us think that people who operate in that manner would be able to bring the kind of change to politics in DC that could put government on the side of the people? bring about any real change? That’s why I am voting McCain Palin; they do have track records for challenging insider politics. Maybe they will change things.
Great to see you Dee 4hill; haven’t seen you since TM and I haven’t been there for well over a month. Used to be my fave.
Yes,
The media and congress are utter fools in follwing Obama’s every whim and command. Imagine what he can manage with full support of an UNQUESTIONING congress and no one left to report on it.
benny you compliment the obama supporters.
and you call the mccain supporters names.
TROLL ALERT
I don’t know about anyone else but I am starting to feel a very deep fear that Obama can pull this off with fraud.
This economic news generally swings voters to the opposite party in power. The timing is NEVER GOOD but it also couldn’t be worse coming now.
Obama as always has no answers , McCain is talking sense and has attempted to regulate and warn just a couple of years ago which in my mind wipes out anything that occurred before that .
But I don’t see that being reported enough, I don’t watch MSM anymore. But I don’t see articles commending McCain either.
But this more than anything shows how dire the straights are for our Country and how “Hillary” is the one we need.
Sorry but is anyone else beginning to think McCain and Repubs need to be coming out even stronger?
Especially since Obama is so entrenched with wall street and it doesn’t seem to phase any one .
Everyone has to vote to prevent voter fraud. Those stay at homers will vote by fraud, whether they know it or not.
Good point.
Don’t vote present.
Vote MCCain.
Surely even the Obama campaign has to know it is very risky to play race this way. The hope of course is that some swing voters will vote for him to prove to themselves that they are not racist. But likewise it has the potential to cause resentment in those same voters as they see through the thinly veiled attempt to manipulate their fear of being labeled racist.
I think this election’s long lasting impact will be to end the effectiveness of race-basing of that kind. But what does Obama think? That it is going to work? That it prepares a golden parachute of some kind for him after he loses? It might very well accomplish the latter, but politically it drips of desperation.
Note: Susan pulled this post from my blog, By The Fault. She and I have an agreement that she can use my posts however, this post was written by a guest contributor and does not reflect my views entirely. I don’t disagree with the larger premise of the post but just to clarify, I am not voting for Obama under any circumstances. I would not welcome any Democrat in the White House over any Republican. I happen to believe that competence matters. Character also matters. My list is too long to list here but my views are well known from previous posts here at NQ-USA and on my own blog.
Charles Lemos
San Francisco, CA
Thanks for clearing that up, that is why I didn’t comment on the piece…I don’t try to tell anyone who to vote for….it is not my right to do that..
Susan, please fix the byline on this to reflect that this is a post from Charles’ blog, but not his own work. I think people are getting too excited.
This bail out has me worried that we are throwing more money away….it didn’t work with Fannie and Freddie and it looks like a blank check to me and I don’t like it….who is going to be in charge in a few months? We don’t know…I say no to this bail out…we need to know more first….it is the dems pulling the strings on this and I don’t trust Pelosi.
I used to think any democrat would be better than a republican in the WH, but no more. My future depends on the right choice now, and that is not Obama.
McCain it has to be; the retaking of the party and elimination of the stranglehold of the losers, and HRC in 2012, if she choses to run.
If Obama loses, he will find any excuse and/or person he can to place the blame…anyone but himself…that would require a pinch of humility and that is one thing he does not have…
it will not matter that he was actually inexperienced, peaked in Feb with his caucus streak and then limped to the finish line after Hillary beat him by big margins in all the big Democratic states need to win the GE…
it will not matter that the Democratic primary season was rigged to give Obama every advantage, including eliminating Florida and Michigan until after he got the nomination, awarding more delegates in urban districts despite his opponent winning the state by thousands of votes…
it will not matter that he won disproportionate caucuses and red states that are meaningless in the quest to win the GE…
it will not matter that the DNC, in the final analysis pressured delegates to get behind Obama for party unity and he was selected by the DNC as the nominee…
it will not matter that the MSM media was in the tank for him the whole election season and spends its air and print time explaining and defending Obama’s talking points while attacking and distorting all his opponents
it will not matter that Obama had more money and outspent his opponents by 4/5 to 1
it will not matter that in the year of volatile female enthusiam, Obama could not see fit to choose Hillary Clinton as his VP even though she could bring him Democratic states, the Democratic base and many of her 18 million voters…
…none of this will matter if Obama loses because he will look for some excuse outside of himself to place blame and his supporters will blame in on race…even though 93% of the AA are voting for Obama
tell you what, if obama loses, he will be so yesterday and his whining will be null and void. the world doesn’t like losers especially those who whine and whine and whine.
I am re-posting this, and I hope all PUMA’s read it….
Going off topic on this one. This is a bit long, but I was touched by this PUMA:
(Sept 20, 2008)**** Firsthand Report***** I Was Invited To Speak As Hillary Supporter For McCain At Campaign Rally
As a supporter of Sen. Hillary Clinton, I recently had the opportunity to give a speech at a McCain rally as to why I have now switched my support to Sen. McCain. In private e-mails with friends and forum members I have been encouraged to post the text of my speech here for everyone to read.
I can honestly say it was well received by the target audience and I was completely shocked to receive a standing ovation. What I spoke of that day was spoken in truth and from my heart. I hope all here will find it inspirational. Here is the text of my speech.
Good morning! I am so honored to be here today, and to speak to you about why I am supporting Sen. John McCain for President.
A supporter of Democrats my entire life, I was an avid supporter of Sen. Hillary Clinton. But, when she suspended her campaign in June, I knew I would throw my support behind Sen. John McCain. Not out of anger or spite, but because Sen. Hillary Clinton was right when she said she would bring a lifetime of experience to the White House, Sen. McCain would bring a lifetime of experience to the White House, and Sen. Obama would bring a speech.
It was a simple decision and now I am the State Chair for “Citizens for McCain,” an organization founded by Sen. Joe Lieberman for Democrats and Independents who put their country first and support the candidate for president who has a proven record of bipartisanship politics.
I agree with Sen. McCain on many issues – the important issues. I trust in his plans for energy independence, tax cuts, creating jobs for Americans, better health care, and as a mother of a soldier who has served in Iraq I trust him to bring our troops home safely and in victory. I trust him to get the government’s spending under control and I trust him to implement policies that will return the strength to our economy and ease the burdens so many Americans carry each day. I trust him to do those things because he has promised those things.
And Sen. McCain says what he means and he means what he says. He is a man of character and those seem to be in short supply in Washington these days. But, Sen. McCain has lead the way in character for many, many years.
I want to relay a story to you that was first presented in the New York Times Magazine in 1997.
In 1982 when Sen. McCain was first elected to the House, Arizona Democratic Congressman Morris “Mo” Udall took him in hand and Sen. McCain has said Mo reached out to him in 50 different ways. Four years later when he was elected to the Senate, Sen. McCain said he felt his greatest debt of gratitude was to Congressman Udall, saying “There was no way Mo could have been more wonderful and there was no reason for him to be that way.”
In the late 1990’s, Sen. McCain made the trip every few weeks to a veteran’s home not far from our nation’s capitol to visit Congressman Udall, who by then lay ill and crippled with Parkinson’s Disease, twisted and disfigured. Udall was rarely conscious and even when he was, showed no signs of recognition.
On one particular day, a nurse entered and said “Almost no one visits anymore.” Once one of the most sought-after men in the Democratic Party, Udall lay dying and was visited regularly by only one single old political friend – Sen. John McCain.
Sen. McCain has reflected on how it affected him when Mo Udall took him in hand all those years ago. Sen. McCain said it was one man saying to another that while they may disagree in politics they didn’t disagree in life. That party political differences only cut so deep. It was the reason Sen. McCain continued to visit Mo Udall, long after Udall lost his political influence. You see, the politics were never all that important. It was the friendship. Congressman Mo Udall died in December 1998.
But, Sen. McCain didn’t forget Mo Udall’s kindness and he carried it forward. When Sen. Hillary Clinton arrived on the Senate floor in 2000, she wasn’t warmly welcomed by the good-old boys club. But, there was one man who was there to welcome her – Sen. John McCain. He reached out his hand, welcomed her, and showed her around, much like Mo Udall had done for him so many years ago.
That, my friends is character and if character is the measure of a man then I would say Sen. John McCain far exceeds the measure.
I want a president with character. I don’t want a president who has to hold repeated press conferences to apologize for and explain his lack of judgment in his personal, business, and religious associations; and I don’t want a president who spent 143 days in the Senate before he decided he was experienced enough to lead this country.
I want a president with proven experience. I want a president who learned long ago that there is great value in bipartisanship politics. I want a president who loves his country and will fight for it. I want a president I can trust.
And I want a president who isn’t afraid to be a maverick, to shake things up, and stand their ground. Known as a maverick for years, Sen. McCain cemented his status when he chose Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate. He sent a clear message not only to Washingtonians but to the world. Change is coming to the White House and it isn’t the false and empty change being touted by his Democratic opponent.
That change is coming in the form of Maverick McCain and Sarah Barracuda Palin and we’ve all been put on notice – the face of Washington politics is going to change - for the better. Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin are proven reformers and they’re going to march that reform right into Washington together, and starting on day one that reform is going to begin to heal this nation’s troubles.
So today, I am here to ask you do to what Sen. McCain asked in his acceptance speech at the Republican Convention – stand up with him and fight.
Stand up and fight to bring real change, proven change to Washington that will change the course of this country for the better.
So, let’s stand up together, work together, and fight together, regardless of political party, and let’s elect Sen. John McCain as the next President of the United States.
Brilliant speech.
Excellent, just excellent.
the more they use the race card, the more they are alienating themselves. they just scream like 2 yr olds hoping the crying of racism will be consoled. boy, do they have a rude awakening coming! P.U.M.A.!
I like my president to have a history I can look at and see what they have done in their life…I wouldn’t vote for Obama for school president much less POTUS.
lol rofl. good one.
To Charles Lemos: Wow! Where have you been?! I must strongly disagree with your words that if Obama should win, you say “I would welcome this because any Democrat in the White House is better than any Republican.” This blanket non-objective statement that this very dangerous man Obama is better than ANY republican smacks of your total disregard of the utterly disgraceful, scary, ways Obama and many of his supporters have trashed Hillary, repeatedly lied, etc. etc. etc. I am a Democrat, and I say cunning, dangerous Obama must be stopped. Short of anything dramatic, only Hillary can do this with near certainty. I hope she does. Enough IS enough.
Charles, you moved away from BO to support Hillary, and you aren’t enraged at the corruption of the process? You’ll cast a vote for Obama knowing that the nominee was forced upon you by the DNC, the media, and cult voters?
Not acceptable to vote for Obama simply because he’s a Democrat. He’s NOT QUALIFIED. The list of reasons is long.
MCCAIN/PALIN ‘08
This isn’t my post. It is from a guest contributor on my blog. Susan inadvertently pulled it from my blog. I have never supported Obama, even early on. I supported John Edwards to start and switched to Hillary in January.
I agree with the larger premise that many will seek to blame race should Obama lose and fail to understand the reasons for his loss.
I’ll ask Susan to make an amendment to the authorship.
Charles Lemos
San Francisco, CA
an obama win is ok with you? PLEASE! HE IS A FRIGGING DISASTER. PERIOD! PARAGRAPH!
UPDATE: FBI serves search warrant against UT student in Palin case
http://www.wbir.com/news/breaking/story.aspx?storyid=64033&catid=29
Buba is about to get a fresh roommate!!
GOOD!
No tellnig what Barack “Excuse” Obama will say or do when he fails to win in November.
He and his supporters that seek to play the race card to try and prop up his funny house have no sense of honor or decency whatsoever.
Obama is like an onion:
Once you peel back the layers, he (and his positions) start to stink.
Like a fellow Hillary Clinton supporter told me, Obama is morally bankrupt. I am of the same opinion.
I supported (and still do support) Hillary Clinton.
I do not have to support Obama.
I have a choice in this election and I choose country first!
McCain-Palin ‘08
Hillary ‘12
OH YEAH! i have also seen all this hyping about race as well. that is a BIG MISTAKE for the democrats. oops that is a big mistake for these idiots pretending to be democrats! it is called backlash! self centered bull during hurricanes and other issues doesn’t work well for the typical middle class voter. i am so dang sick of hearing about race i could scream! SCREAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!
calm down. and the terminology is Obamacrats. man, I can hear your scream. :-). once Obama loses, it’ll be in the news for a few days, thats it. Lets all hope that McCain wins.
I posted quoted comments from a Denver Post opinion piece by Chunk Plunkett. One of the things he said is this: “But is that the excuse the Democrats really want to use [if O loses]? That they can’t win because the country is too racist?”
It IS a big mistake to attack the American voters that way. I never even met an AA until I was fourteen, growing up in a small rural Western town. But my teachers were amazing in that they really instilled in us democratic principles and made us read about the Civil Rights movement.
I just retired from teaching in a mostly white collar suburban high school with approximately 1500 students, with Hispanic, Asian, and AA students abundant. It was so amazing to me how the large majority of the students did not bat an eyelid in regard to another student’s race or religion. Right after 9/11 when two Muslim female students who wore hajibs stopped coming, most of my students were saddened because they had hoped they would stay. They truly did NOT want to be considered racist, for any reason. We all hoped it was just their parents being frightened and not the girls.
We had not heard rumors of taunting.
I really, really feel that it would be the death of the Democratic Party to make that claim.
Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending (September 30th, 1999)
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980’s.
”From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,” said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ”If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.”
Quoted for emphasis
“Raising taxes is not patriotic.”
I love that someone really flew a plane over a Obama rally pulling that behind them….picture here..
http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/20/protesting-obama-by-air/
Oh God, he was using his “they’ll bamboozle and hoodwink, don’t let them pull the ol’ okie doke on you” lines again. He infuriates me.
30-yr-dem (NOT…same as me, tho!)
Somebody should have dumped the lavatory out of that airplane when it flew over Obama the other day! You CAN do that, you know!
Just open up them little doors & SPLAT!!! Right on top of Obot’s head & the heads of his Apathetic Acornies!
My son is a commerical pilot and, while down in Burbank last Wednesday (I believe it was that day), Obot’s “air transport” jet, “Obama For America”, pulled up next to my son’s plane at the air charter FBO. About 100 people disembarked the plane along with the highly-dysfunctional Obot. You know, the press diehards, ass-kissers & suck-ups - along with EXTRA, EXTRA, EXTRA secret service (courtesy of US - as in “you” & “I” anti-Obama, Hillary supporters - taxpayers) to protect his skinny self from all those malicious threats.
As I listened to this story I started to get nauseated & began to feel more & more like I was going to barf up whatever I just ate. This story so thoroughly disgusted me I had to tell my son to stop talking about THAT.
It sickens me to think that Obama - a criminal many times over - is treated like royalty….as if he is someone with a commanding presence deserving of our respect - while, at the same time, remembering the lack of words to describe the ruthless, despicable,reprehensible treatment of Hillary. Neither can I believe that an “objective” press is a thing of the past as the press now lives in the gutter with Obama. Journalism, itself, was thrown under Obama’s bus along with the rest of the suffocating crowd.
See what I mean? Makes ya’ want to puke, doesn’t it? (Don’t think about the taxpayer part of this story or you will get doubly sick!)
stodghie- i am so sick of race too. it just shows how desperate and pathetic the obama people are. i don’t know who it is working on. it’s following on deaf ears out here in my part of texas. no one cares they are being called racists. enough already with the racism crap. it’s a useless tool now.
The statement that 70% of Americans are “fearful of 60s liberalism” strikes me as 100% caca.
Perhaps but I liked the description of an Obama America that followed:
A country too ashamed of itself to fight its enemies, too unsure of itself to praise its own history,govern its children or corral its criminals,and too resentful of the rich to allow the economy to make more of them.
The race card has been played like a ping pong- who has the ball in their court and how will it manifest come November 4… shall be the harbinger of things to come. If what we have seen so far is just icing on the cake, who will receive their just desserts and when, remains a stigma. Also,there are some who actually honestly and sincerely believe that McCain made up being a POW. Now, I’m sorry but that is crossing the line- enough is enough with the manipulations. I think they went from Kool Aid liquid to Kool Aid powder.
WildChild,
I get where you’re coming from, but as I poor person myself I have a different opinion. This is the worst time to raise taxes on the wealthy and especially raise the capital gains tax! Those people create the jobs and in this struggling economy it will cause them to downsize companies and slow down new job creation. It is as simple as that. What good is $1,000 tax break when you can’t find a job? Think about that.
McCain/Palin 08!
“LIBERAL FASCISM” by Jonah Goldberg
Please everyone read it…and no its not a bash on “liberalism”. Its a well written essay, well referenced, on the beginnings of fascism and its grounding in “Early Radical Progressive theory”.
Please…from one devoted/worried American to another…read it…it may save our country from the new American Hitler Aka: OBAMA
Read it before it gets Censored and burned!
Sally, a link would help.
I hope this is what you mean by “link”..this is one to the book from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism-American-Mussolini-Politics/dp/0385511841/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222037867&sr=8-1
It’s not just the race card they’re playing, it’s every card in the deck! I’m gay and I’m an Independent, but they tell me I must hate myself for voting Republican this year! I’ve actually been told this several times! Despite the fact McCain and Obama have the same plan for civil unions–let the states decide! I’m not sure about McCain, but I know Obama supports “don’t ask, don’t tell” in the military! And despite the fact I think McCain is right on the important issues compared to Obama! How insulting, they think I can only vote on one issue, and it’s an issue where this no difference on either side. I supported Hillary in the primary b/c the Clintons are centrists, like McCain. Just because I’m gay, doesn’t mean I’m far left. I know gay Republicans! Let me say set the record straight, I love myself and I love this country! McCain is what’s best!
Well, Bill Maher says we “fu**ing dumb,” Obama classifies us as “typical,” and a Canadian journalists calls us “white trash.” So we are now known as “fu**ing dumb typical white trash.”
Classy, aren’t they?
That’s fascism for you….and expect much worse!
They can kiss my unwashed a$$.
I have already decided that I am not going to vote for Obama because he is black. Never mind all of the other nonsense about his lack of experience, his numerous nasty connections with the Chicago machine. Never mind the fact that he lies through smiling teeth and treats women worse than if they were his servants. Never mind that his campaign was involved in massive caucus fraud throughout the primaries or that he has had alliegance to other nations other than the United States thus nullifying his qualifications to even be POTUS. I will not vote for Obama because he is black and I am a racist. Are you drunken Obama-fools happy now? If being a racist is how Obama followers need to see those that do not support him, so be it. Call me what you like.
There is only one thing worse than being called a racist and that is fearing someone who labels you as a racist simply because you are not voting for an obviously unqualified candidate. I fear nothing by anyone labeling me as a racist. You can enjoy your race-baiting insanity all they like but it will not get me to vote Obama just because he is black.
I’m not voting for the typical arrogant white male half of him.
I’m still waiting for Obama to tell me why he voted to raise taxes on people who make $42,000/year just a year ago! You can always tell when he’s lying–his lips are moving! He tells everyone what they want to hear, so I have no idea which of the 10 Obama’s I’m supposed to trust!
Sally,
I will read that, sounds interesting. Thanks.
I think it is a book
http://liberalfascism.nationalreview.com/
sorry
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjBiYzdhODQwNmE0MTc5Y2M0NmM2ZGY4MWRhMTkxYjA=
It is a book and a very good one. It should be required reading for all.
The culties will call it “racism” when he loses. But it’s simply Identity Politics. Because it always is.
Why did this country vote for Regan? Because most Americans Identified with him. He was “All American” the cowboy thing. You remember that when he was still thought of an actor turned politician people didn’t want him. Soon as he became the rootin tootin cowboy he was “in”
Bush Sr, road the coattails, but was rejected for another American guy. “bubba” White America loved him because they could relate and black Americans loved him even more because they saw him as being the closest thing to a black Pres. as we had ever seen.
They saw themselves in him.
Then came baby Bush. And despite all his flaws, he was also looked at as the every joe, again the cowboy all American guy. Doesn’t matter that half the country viewed him as an idiot, incompetent ect. there were still just enough that saw themselves in him to get him in twice.
And now here we are with Obama who is so not the typical American ideal, and the war hero McCain who is.
Again it’s who you identify with. Blacks are picking Obama because even if he is nothing like most black Americans as far as experiences, and ultra liberal views, the skin color it the ultimate similarity and enough for most to get behind him. He’s also getting those liberal elite whites who see everything they are in him, and as a bonus he’s exotic and trendy JUST because he’s black, which is what most of them love!
But there aren’t enough of them to win this election. It’s why Gore, and Kerry lost. And while though it’ll be close because of the black vote, Obama will ultimately lose.
Like it or not, the majority will always win. And until there is a demographic shift in this country, with an influx of blacks or if liberal extremists suddenly become prolific reproducers the majority is and will be cowboy-hillbilly-redneck-Americanism. For better or for worse.
JayD,
lol. I have black friends who were called “Uncle Toms” for not supporting him, many times by white liberals! They should know about racism and sexism, it’s them fueling it! I felt dirty writing that, but they don’t see anything wrong with saying it to someone! They have become so disgusting!
I am a Democrat and will never vote for Obama. Remember, Country above Party?
If Obama loses, it because people are scared of him. He was never vetted by the MSM and a lot of his past associations were never explored.
The MSM has been trying to elect the our President for us.
I trust McCain. This party doesn’t hold the values or principles of Clinton supporters, so in my opinion you are only “selling out” by supporting Obama and the new corrupt way of the DNC. The new DNC are fascists. They tell people how to vote by voter grouping! The “tolerant” left have become very intolerant. I urge anyone who supported Clinton and will not support Obama to merge into one strategy: the two vote cancellation to reform this Party. Not voting for Obama is good, but voting for McCain is better! You not only take a vote form Obama, ou give one to McCain. For may of you in the primaries your vote didn’t count once! You now have the chance to have your vote count twice! If you think you are voting against principles, look again. McCain is a centrist that will work with Democrats. He’s probably closer to your views than you think! Obama is not. If you’re worried about doing what’s best for our futures the answer is simple: John McCain! If you are worried McCain isn’t liberal enough, just ask Republicans! Obama will destroy our country and the Democratic Party forever! Vote smart,vote twice!
McCain/Palin 08!
The Obama campaign use profiling to stalk what they believe to be their demographic.
My 21 year old daughter, a registered Independent, but slightly right of Mother Theresa has been inundated by the Obama folks.
They knock on the door every weekend wanting to talk to her. The yard is full of McCain signs. But they knock still. She is to the point that she uses her German Shepherd to chase these young men away. She cannot walk across her campus with out being threatened.
We get 4 or 5 mailings each week and 7 to 10 phone calls. She has taken down her web site and privatized her Facebook.
She has repeatedly asked for them to remove her from their list. But she is white, female, college educated, registered Independent so they think she belongs to them.
The fact that we are followed to the Metro and she is “escorted” to the train by these stalkers. I now drive her to the University and pick her up.
They have to be stopped.
Good God, call your local police, this is illegal.
I also trust McCain. He will keep me safe.
That’s it in a nutshell for me.
I trust John McCain.
I do not trust Barack Obama.
The more these idiots keep taliking about racism as the reason for a possible Obama loss, trying to shame undecided white voters into voting for him, the more it’s going to backfire on them.
If anything, constantly injecting race into the debate makes people more inclined to factor it into their decision. And given that almost 100% of blacks have already made their decision while almost all of the remaining undecided voters are white, who does that favor?
It’s driving me CRAZY that the “talking heads” keep saying that the bad economy news is good for Obama.
Gee, I’m so happy for him.
Now Barky has gotten his new talking points from the DNC (Dean, Pelosi, Reid) and he is now criticizing the bail out plan proposed by Henry Paulson. The Pubs want to move it through quickly and the Dems want to hold it up and turn it into a Christmas tree even though they “rail against it”.
I’m going to watch the Emmys. They should give Barky an honorary Emmy for Best Performance In A Campaign. He’s not really a presidential nominee…he just plays one on TV.
Yup. I was right. The Dragon Lady wants it her way…
In a statement Sunday, the House Speaker says the Bush administration’s proposed financial package “does not include the necessary safeguards.”
“Democrats believe a responsible solution should include independent oversight, protections for homeowners and constraints on excessive executive compensation.”
“We will not simply hand over a $700 billion blank check to Wall Street and hope for a better outcome.”
No, let me guess: She wants Johnson and Raines to do the oversight, right?
Pelosi and Reid must go. AWAY.
“Obama may indeed win. I would welcome this because any Democrat in the White House is better than any Republican”
It took 5136 keystrokes to reach the decision obvious for anyone to the left of Eisenhower.
You people have too much time on your hands.
its still a patently bogus claim…no matter how many keystrokes it takes to arrive at.
Case and point Reagan vs Carter.
I will not repeat your lie, possibly you consider it an opinion and that voicing it is not pure, unadulterated mendacity. Hell, you may even be a goddamn Republican.
However, the following I do find intriguing in lieu of the talk I just had with my wife as I was driving her back from the airport.
“Case and point Reagan vs Carter”
This is not about Reagan setting the stage for the current energy and financial debacle. No, this one is about people, specifically the Reagan Democrat phenomenon.
And a very curious logical inversion I just found.
My in-laws were Ronnie Reagan clones, voted for Roosevelt and maybe toyed with voting for Truman but turned Stone Age Republican by the mid fifties. Around the time Barry ran for President Lloyd built a flagpole, read Barry’s ghostwritten book and voted Goldwater. They put some big money into the Reagan campaign, enough to get the collection of recorded cassettes of Ronnie’s speeches. While my father-in-law was the more flamboyant of the two, my mother-in-law was the epitimy of the frosty Republican matron, definitely the more conservative of the two. There were many uncomfortable silences at the Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner tables.
Lloyd is no longer with us. His 88 year old widow found McCain to be a very palatable candidate for, after all, they were both Navy families and both men had been Airdales. That is, she supported McCain until Palin came on the scene.
My mother-in-law thinks Palin is the Antichrist.
This is the same ideological flip that I have witnessed amongst this small group (you could hold a reunion in a bus shelter) except diametrically opposite in ideology. It’s tinfoil hat time.
A speech given by Libyan Leader Mu’ammar Al-Qadhafi.
“There are elections in America now. Along came a black citizen of Kenyan African origins, a Muslim, who had studied in an Islamic school in Indonesia. His name is Obama. All the people in the Arab and Islamic world and in Africa applauded this man. They welcomed him and prayed for him and for his success, and they may have even been involved in legitimate contribution campaigns to enable him to win the American presidency. But we were taken by surprise when our African Kenyan brother, who is an American national, made statements that shocked all his supporters in the Arab world, in Africa, and in the Islamic world. We hope that this is merely an elections “clearance sale,” as they say in Egypt – in other words, merely an elections lie. As you know, this is the farce of elections – a person lies and lies to people, just so that they will vote for him, and afterwards, when they say to him: :”You promised this and that,” he says: “No, this was just elections propaganda.” This is the farce of democracy for you. He says: “This was propaganda, and you thought I was being serious. I was fooling you to get your votes.”
http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/1791.htm
Humans acting humanly, amazing. Kadafi speaking the truth, unbelievable.
Good God, even the Terrorist sympathizers are more honest than Barack Obama.
Sad but true. I’d still vote Jeremiah Wright himself before I’d vote for “Bama.
Oh, Quadaffi that is a good one! He sees thru Obama like he is clear glass.
“As far as I can see Senator Obama is the most flawed presidential candidate in my memory”
“I will vote for Obama if I vote at all”
Interpreter please!
Charles, it’s good that you didn’t write this…thanks for the clarification!
My problems with the Democratic Party’s choice goes far beyond race or gender!
The issues regarding Michigan and Florida essentially diluted every vote, and in turn all our votes were essentially nullified by super delegates, in my opinion!
My next vote WILL count, whether I win or lose! McCain/Palin!
In a speech given by Libyan Leader Mu’ammar Al-Qadhafi.
“There are elections in America now. Along came a black citizen of Kenyan African origins, a Muslim, who had studied in an Islamic school in Indonesia. His name is Obama. All the people in the Arab and Islamic world and in Africa applauded this man. They welcomed him and prayed for him and for his success, and they may have even been involved in legitimate contribution campaigns to enable him to win the American presidency. But we were taken by surprise when our African Kenyan brother, who is an American national, made statements that shocked all his supporters in the Arab world, in Africa, and in the Islamic world. We hope that this is merely an elections “clearance sale,” as they say in Egypt – in other words, merely an elections lie. As you know, this is the farce of elections – a person lies and lies to people, just so that they will vote for him, and afterwards, when they say to him: :”You promised this and that,” he says: “No, this was just elections propaganda.” This is the farce of democracy for you. He says: “This was propaganda, and you thought I was being serious. I was fooling you to get your votes.”
http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/1791.htm
I don’t think that this AP racism article is shaming any white people into voting for Obama. My take was that it is going to reinforce the white “racist” vote. It has given them “permission”.
Ohitler (the real racist in all of this) created the white “racists” to “win” the nomination. Now he is stuck with us like an albatross.
UBM; Do I care that McCain owns 13 cars?
Do I care that BO is so deep in the pocket of Wall Street? YES.
Hope you enjoy the view of your head shoved deep in the darkness of BO.
According to Campaign Money Watch, a nonpartisan campaign finance watchdog group, Sen. John McCain’s lobbyist bundlers, advisors and staff members have collected $930,949,819–nearly a billion dollars–in fees from special interests over the past decade.
McCain has received bundled 2008 campaign contributions from Wall Street investors totalling $11.4 million. This actually exceeds Obama’s total Wall Street contributions, which total around $8.9 million.
You think John doesn’t owe favors?
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/bundlers.php?id=N00006424
Could you exert that level of energy in researching where ALL of Obama’s money comes from?
It would be far more interesting.
You could start looking as far back as in IL. Google for fun Obama and Money Laundering or board games or kickbacks.
For even more fun, close your eyes as you begin your Obamessiah mediatation, and picture the audacity of his follwers enjoying their $28,000dollar a plate at their cult event while Obama’s cronies (his ADVISORS) do their best to line their pockets with millions and simultaneously bring down Wall Street.
$28,000 for ONE plate, that would feed my family for more than 2 years.
He has always and will always put himself before this country in every possible way.
Open your eyes.
Here is a copy of some recent correspondence that I had with Deborah Howell from The Washington Post. After much criticism of their reporting, she finally responded, saying I had provided some good examples for her to present to the staff (maybe they are getting the hint, but I doubt it). Here is part of my latest response to one of her queries:
Ms. Howell,
Thank you for your response to my query. The coverage of this election has me very concerned. I think that the American people should have the opportunity to choose a President based on an honest review of the candidates. The media investigation of Sarah Palin serves as an example of what the media should do (minus some of the ugly rhetoric from commentators) in investigating a candidate, but I wonder why this level of scrutiny has never been applied to Senator Obama’s record and associations by the national press? While I agree that having an African-American president is a wonderful goal for the country, I fear that the lack of vetting of Senator Obama’s record and the lack of fair media coverage could end up backfiring.
Take the case of Jackie Robinson as an example. Imagine if Jackie Robinson had failed when he took the field. What would the repercussions have been for our society, for integration, and for the future of equal participation for minorities in areas previously dominated by whites? Jackie Robinson didn’t fail because he was a great baseball player and he showed the world that he deserved to play in Major League Baseball, not because of the color of his skin, but because he was just as good, if not better than the other players on the field. If he had been a mediocre player, forced onto the field to make a point because of the color of his skin, it would have been a setback to all those whose dreams were resting on his success. I am afraid that when looking at Senator Obama’s actual record, and compare it to his rhetoric, I don’t see a Jackie Robinson and I worry about the possible consequences.
Thanks again,
Me
It’s a great letter. Your point is spot on. I thought it and you wrote it so beautifully.
Thank you.
I’m going to play a race card of my own on November 4. I will race down to the polling place and vote straight down the line GOP to send the strongest possible message to Ohitler, his brownshirt supporters and the DNC fuckheads that are trying to destroy our Republic.
McCain/Palin ‘08
Clinton/Clark ‘12
Me too, me too, me too.
BTW Clinton can do a helluvalot better than Wes Clark. I worked for that piece of shit. There isn’t and officer or soldier that ever worked for him that has 1 nice thing to say.
Hillary is better than that.
Clark has his own special place in hell for what he did to soldiers and their families.
A good candidate that put the country first and has a record to prove it is my candidate, so I beg to differ on this.
I do not believe the Obama is democrat, that is my take. He accused Sen. Hillary Clinton doing anything to win. What is Obama doing?
He lies about everything.
The democrats lies for him. It goes like this: What he meant to say is……, how do you know what he trying to say, are you in Obama’s head?
The media also lies for him, watch the situation room and see the Wolf man trying very hard to skew the fact. CNN is supposed to feed us the news raw, no they spin the news with the talking head of Jack with his skew question, and if he does not agree with him, Jack will not read your submission. Need I say more.
Obama will lose because of Obama.
We the democrats do not even tell ourselves the truth.
Ugo, I agree. Well said.
Here are just A FEW reasons why I am not voting for Sen Obama…
http://www.barackbook.com/
Obama facebook
I dont want ANY of these people getting anywhere near Washington DC, our Constitution, or our Bill of Rights.
These are all close associates of Sen Obama.
Sen Obama owes many people many favors…what are they expecting as repayment?
Watch this chilling video.
Dear Mr. Obama: Who Are You?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16aBNduAyQ4
This video is based 100 % on easily verifiable facts. Captures EXACTLY what is on my mind.
***********************
Sen Obama’s ACTUAL Legislative Accomplishments
http://www.beyondchron.org/articles/The_Obama_Craze_Count_Me_Out_5413.html
Beyondchron.org, The Obama Craze: Count Me out ” by Matt Gonzalez 2/27/08
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080211/fraser
************************************
Sen Obama tried to slow down return home of US troops in Iraq ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKqHFk-3yQM
“OBAMA OBJECTS
BUT THE EVIDENCE SAYS I’M RIGHT”, NY Post
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09172008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/obama_objects_129453.htm
The NY Post writer, Amir Teheri has been getting death threats, and he says so at the end of the article, and he really makes his case against Obama and how he tried to stall withdrawal of GIs in Iraq–how he negotiated for our country and the war behind Bush’s back. He even says that lately Obama has been saying he wants to do exactly what we have been doing in Iraq for 5 years, but wants to get the kudos for all the hard work if he wins the WH. He also brings up how Biden wanted to carve Iraq into three sections and separate people by ethnicity/ religion. (Horrific idea, and Iraq is against it.)
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/17/obamas-iraq-double-talk-gate-response/#more-4843
Ugo,
P.S As one can deduce from my list of reasons for not voting for Sen Obama…Not one of them deals with his race.
Here are just highlights from my list of reasons why I am not voting for Sen Obama…
P.S NOT ONE OF MY REASONS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH RACE.
http://www.barackbook.com/
Obama facebook
I dont want ANY of these people getting anywhere near Washington DC, our Constitution, or our Bill of Rights.
These are all close associates of Sen Obama.
Sen Obama owes many people many favors…what are they expecting as repayment?
Watch this chilling video.
Dear Mr. Obama: Who Are You?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16aBNduAyQ4
This video is based 100 % on easily verifiable facts.
***********************
Sen Obama’s ACTUAL Legislative Accomplishments
http://www.beyondchron.org/articles/The_Obama_Craze_Count_Me_Out_5413.html
Beyondchron.org, The Obama Craze: Count Me out ” by Matt Gonzalez 2/27/08
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080211/fraser
***************************
Why Does Sen Obama Continue to LIE about his relationship with Ayers? What is he hiding?
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/10/lies-money-and-barack/#more-4698
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-45A6I-N5I
Lies, Money, and Barack
By Matthew Weaver 9/10/08
*******************************
Sen Obama tried to slow down return home of US troops in Iraq ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKqHFk-3yQM
“OBAMA OBJECTS
BUT THE EVIDENCE SAYS I’M RIGHT”, NY Post
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09172008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/obama_objects_129453.htm
The NY Post writer, Amir Teheri has been getting death threats, and he says so at the end of the article, and he really makes his case against Obama and how he tried to stall withdrawal of GIs in Iraq–how he negotiated for our country and the war behind Bush’s back. He even says that lately Obama has been saying he wants to do exactly what we have been doing in Iraq for 5 years, but wants to get the kudos for all the hard work if he wins the WH. He also brings up how Biden wanted to carve Iraq into three sections and separate people by ethnicity/ religion. (Horrific idea, and Iraq is against it.)
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/17/obamas-iraq-double-talk-gate-response/#more-4843
http://blog1.thejtandbearshow.com/2008/09/17/hypocrisy-obamas-illegal-negotiations-with-iraq-will-cost-americans-60-billion-more.aspx
**********************************
Has Joe Biden’s son turned Delaware into a police state? Look what they did to Larry Sinclair.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1IS_WHBjQA
A story about Obama’s ACORN friends in a Philly newspaper: http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=20128338&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=8 It has a recitation of some of the current investigations.
Actually I think if Obama wins it will be terrible for the Dem Party. Just like Nixon soured Americans on Repubs giving Dems the only chance they’ve had in years, if Obama wins and is the worst president in history then it’ll take America 20 years or more to give another dem a chance.
Americans are not far lefties and they are even less the far left, far right, radical morphism of Obama. Faith based funding, telecom immunity and ending global poverty?? Yeah, I don’t think anything good will come out of an obama presidency and I’m a good and loyal democrat.
Gee, I read the above posts…and I want to give credit where credit is due…THANK YOU BO for promoting class warfare, it is so productive! I read through all the posts and the single thing I noticed is how Obama has successfully manipulated you into thinking this tax issue is the most pressing thing today…and I noticed how respectful you are of other’s points of view.
We cannot have a better world if we spend our time fighting with each other. BO counts on the citizens being locked into small factions fighting each other.
Peace begins with YOU.
Obama will lose all the southern and border states, all the normal red states and at least one or more of the battleground states of Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan. Game over! Obama loses. He might even lose Wisconsin, New Jersey or Minn. It is going to be a Mcgovern moment.
Calling me racist won’t scare me into voting for Barack Hussein Obama. GET OVER IT!! I’m not voting
to protect my image, I’m voting to protect America!! Obama is not qualified to be our President.
They call those of us who are not voting for Obama racist. I call those who are voting for Obama stupid.
I dont think the race card is going to help him now. It may hurt more….the reports are saying LOTS of AMERICANS may not vote for him partly because they think he will make race relations worse…..so, that person says, “I am not alone in rejecting him”? This is not the primary, this is the GE SECRET BALLOT and people can and will vote for what ever reason they want. He will get more votes because he is black…….15% of Americans are black and 95% support him BECAUSE he is black. Plenty of whites support him BECAUSE he is black. If he was a regular white guy and the equivalent of Rev Wright in reverse for a pastor, he would have been out long ago.
Obama and his goons and elite aristo-rats are true fascists….and I am very very scared. Americans have no clue what they are in for…and in truth we deserve it for our lack of vigilance, lazy group thinking and lack of respect for this country’s sacrosinct founding principles. We’ve been toying with them for far too long!
To hell we shall go…and maybe then, with much bloodshed and lots of luck (lots!), we’ll put the cracked egg together again.
So please…Read this. I promise it will be the most important read of a lifetime:
LIBERAL FASCISM” by Jonah Goldberg
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism-American-Mussolini-Politics/dp/0385511841/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222037867&sr=8-1
Please…everyone read it. And NO, its not a bash on “liberalism”. Its a well written essay (ie. well referenced) on the beginnings of fascism and its grounding in “Early Radical Progressive theory”.
Please….from one devoted/worried American to another…read it…it may save our country from the American Hitler Aka: OBAMA
Read it before it gets Censored and burned!
To the rabid and nasty Obama brownshirts: you will reap what you sow…fascists always turn on their own kind first…and visciously. Have Fun with your CHANGE!
Again….it’s “Liberal Fascism” by Jonah Goldberg
OT, but there is a very good article, ‘Palin and Obama—What Really is Wisdom?’ by Victor Davis Hanson at:
http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/palin-and-obama—what-really-is-wisdom/?print=1
Interesting how Pelosi and the Dems in Congress are so interested in oversight now. Look back 2 years when John McCain urged oversight for Fannie and Freddie because of fears of what has now happened. Where were the Dems then? I truly believe that the Dems did absolutely everything in their power for the 2 years they had the majority in Congress to subvert any legislation that would reflect positively on a Bush Presidency. And the thought of an Obama Presidency with a Congress led by Pelosi and Reid keeps me awake at night. Absolutely frightening!
I’m thinking the exact same thing.
I wish HRC would do what’s needed here, for the country’s sake. Obama is a very scary prospect.
Oh, come on! Deregulation has been a republican cult mantra since Reagan.
It was the republicans who deregulated the financial industry to begin with. Who gave us the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act? How about the Commodity Futures Modernization Act?
Democrats voted against those bills. McCain supported them and voted for them.
Deregulation is not the same thing as government oversight.
And Strawberry, please do not forget the criminal behavior of the media in this election, dating all the way back to the Democratic primary. They are all in the tank for Obama, have been since the beginning, and if he wins, will we ever know what’s really going on in our government? I think the death of objective journalism in this country is the first step in the death of democracy as we know it.
Let us make this video go viral. It is clear and to the point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16aBNduAyQ4
Come on PUMA friends let us get this out there.
If Obama loses, I will never ask God for another thing!
And if that’s racist, then God will forgive me(especially because He’ll be so happy I’m never going to ask Him for another thing!).
The only way Obama can win the election is to ILLegitimately steal it via his well-orchestrated ACORN voter fraud. This is what he did in all of the caucuses & most of the primaries. He is doing it now, as well.
I just can’t stand cheating.
And I can guarantee you that the fraud is much, much worse than what we’ve thus far read about in the extremist, over-the-top, Obama-fawning MSM.
I’ve been very troubled about this for quite some time. I live in California and, about a month ago, I heard Obama (via MSM) say to a worshipping Los Angeles crowd: “Oh, I’ll win [the general election]. Don’t worry about THAT…..” Well, I knew exactly what that thief was talking about!
Obot will stoop as low as necessary. Remember? He follows the “Alinsky” social organizing method! As Alinsky teaches, Obot believes anything he chooses to do is perfectly acceptable as long as those actions increase HIS POWER & help him reach THE GOAL. As we have seen, harming others is part of this process since Obot has ZERO limits.
Obot truly believes in his plan-of-action & believes himself morally good. I think he truly believes all of his actions are justified. Just like Bush - with Obot it’s all either “black” or “white” (no pun here). If you questioned Bush, you were labeled as unpatriotic & on the side of the “terrorists.” If you question Obot you are a racist. It’s Bush ALL OVER AGAIN - but WORSE.
But, Obot’s irrational viewpoint could only come from a seriously disturbed individual. I think it’s pretty clear that all of Obot’s actions, taken together, indicate the depth of Obot’s insanity. Great, heh? Isn’t it JUST GREAT to be dealing with THIS after going through 8 years of the Bush Administration? Thanks, DNC! Thanks for shoving this guy down our throats - this Obot who is turning out to be…..GASP…..even WORSE than GWB!
This is SCARY.
In keeping with this post, I have to wonder when - if ever - this will stop? I am beginning to worry that it won’t stop anytime soon. Obot gives every indication that he is completely out-of-control and uncontrollable. He thinks he can do whatever he wants and not be held accountable. Unfortunately, this HAS been the case so far.
Earlier - I think Obot’s congressional supporters believed that they could control him even if he won. I think they now know this is not the case. They have lost control of their own manufactured monster.
So, if Obama is fully exposed prior to the election & loses due to that exposure - well, what will happen then? Will the Black people who believed in him and were suddenly let down fly into a rage as I know I would do (but I would do so in thought only)? Would ACORN help by “agitating” to incite violence in this regard?
If Obama is NOT exposed prior to 11/04 but nevertheless loses - well, what then? Will WE then be falsely held accountable? (No, please don’t tell me that those idiots will hold Hillary accountable!) Will the ACORN extreme fanatics - who happen to be accomplished when it comes to violence & disruption - thereafter MOB & TERRORIZE all of us who spoke out against this worthless creature?
You know, I’m just so GOD DAMNED PISSED OFF. And WORRIED.
This once far-left-of-center Democrat saw Obama for what he was from the start & knew at that time that the guy was going to be a problem. Never could I vote for a worthless criminal like Obama no matter how far left of center I was at one time (but, NO LONGER!)
Does anyone else have the same worries as I?
Obot, his “followers” & his instrument ACORN are all sociopaths & will do WHATEVER since they have no feelings, morals, scruples, and/or ethics. Criminal acts are all very much part of their “in-the-face” program.
After all the money Obot has stolen for his fake self + fake campaign, I seriously believe he is capable of inflicting serious damage in order to affect a win (much, much worse than the damage already inflicted). In Obot’s sick (tiny) mind HE is heavily invested in this thing & therefore MUST WIN. Indeed, I believe we are beginning to see him “ramp up” the process of inflicting this unusually serious damage. It is this kind of insanity that truly worries me. The actions of ACORN, alone, are terrifying.
Oh, yes. This is the reaction Obama would want. FEAR. Just like GWB.
Bastard that Obot. Just look at what his measley ass has done.
Susan, Yes, that has me worried too. He will use any means he can to steal this…I just hope that someone in McCains camp has an Oct. surprise…It doesnt seem enough that obama has NOT done one thing to prove he loves this country.. His followers are so completely blinded by their desperation for change that they cannot recognise what that change will result in..It makes me think about a person using their last dollar on a lottery ticket..After that last dollar was spent, the person was left with NOTHING. We cannot afford to gamble with the future security of America by voting for someone who associates with known terrorists and other questionable characters..
Caringnurse -
I’ve been thinking about this all along and, actually, have researched what I believe is Obama’s use of various “thought control” methods. These are “persuasion” tactics commonly used by cult leaders.
I don’t know if Obama is conscious of using the more subtle tactics - but I DO know he is conscious of using the ACORN terrorism tactics to oppress dissent and reap power for himself.
At first, I just couldn’t understand how he could so capably influence others - many of whom should have known better. I knew that the throngs of people fawning over Obama couldn’t all be due to the bandwagon effect. I also knew that most of these people quite easily fell into step with Obama & quickly believed what he told them to believe. And, as we have now come to know, they will REPEAT just exactly what he tells them to say.
All of this seemed so strange in the beginning. It took me awhile to figure out what I thought might be going on and to come to terms with this surrealistic environment.
Cult leaders must quickly silence dissent in order to maintain control. Cult leaders also prey upon the YOUNG, meak & downtrodden because it is while in these weakened states that people are more easily influenced.
There is no question that Obama preyed upon the young for a reason. And there is no question that those who “follow” Obama were persuaded to do so by something greater than the “bandwagon effect.”
Obama used “money” to get to the rest. (I can’t understand why it is NOT illegal to give thousands of dollars to individual members of congress - but I understand that doing so is “dirty” but not formally illegal). In my book, these payouts constitute bribes. Obama paid out thousands upon thousands of dollars to individual members of congress.
Obama also influenced his more experienced supporters by promising them jobs and, based on his community organizing “skills” and influence over ACORN, the “hope” that there would always be a steady flow of money (no matter how illegally gotten).
So, what we have here is a huge group of mentally unstable people. And, then there’s ACORN - whose members have consistently shown that criminal laws don’t apply to them & they can do whatever. Just like Obama - who still “power” instructs ACORN members once per year (busy little bee, ain’t he?)
Anyone who supported Obama is at fault here,in my view. I truly believe Obama answers to no one & is out-of-control. Should Obama get elected he will move into the vacated GWB Whitehouse & will benefit from the approximately 1,100 signing statements (”executive privilege”) that Bush used to do what he wanted to do & escape the law.
Bush rarely disputed legislation because he didn’t have to. It was simple. Congress would pass legislation & Bush would promptly sign that legislation. Soon thereafter, however, Bush would pick a specific part of that recently-signed legislation with which he did not agree and he would claim it “unconstitutional” with an issued signing statement. Bush was home free, then, because the POTUS cannot perform any unconstitutional act. And, Nobody could do anything about this arrangement because Congress had already passed the legislation into law. The Supreme Court does not have jurisdiction to address these issues.
Bush issued more signing statements (1,100 by March, 2006) than all other presidents put together. I’m certain the number is much higher by now.
But, the point here is that these “exceptions” to the law are now precedent. Obama, as POTUS (ugh!), would have at his disposal, all of these “exceptions” along with whatever additional exceptions he favored for himself & thereafter cited as “unconstitutional.”
So, should Obama be elected we would end up with a deranged POTUS who was above the law in more ways than one. And, we would have all the little brainwashed culties camping in tents outside the Whitehouse - along with ACORN members making strategic decisions while having full, unrestricted access to the Whitehouse & all the records therein. I’m joking around a little bit here, I think…..BUT, then again, MAYBE NOT.
Obama didn’t secretly pay ACORN $800K only to simply & silently register dead people to vote,now did he?
OK. Enough. I scared myself even MORE now. It’s 8:10pm PDT & I’m going to go vacuum the house to work off this anxiety!
Remember what Pelosi said on her FIRST day as Speaker following the 2006 congressional election?
In reference to GWB, Pelosi began her first speach by stating, “Impeachment is OFF the table.” I’ll never forget THAT!
I was angered by this comment. I have never liked Pelosi & am quite familiar with the armory of underhanded tactics she employs when she wants to get her “way”.
In 2006 the people spoke when they gave the Democrats the majority. What the people said when they “spoke” was that they wanted Congress to do something about the ongoing unilateral decisions made by Bush/Cheney.
Enter Pelosi on Day #1 when she basically VOIDED the people’s vote & her very congressional presence. Pelosi SET THE TONE for the next two years by making the above comment - especially considering her follow-on statement which had nothing to do with GWB. She said that Congress had many legislative issues to deal with over the next two years. Huh???
I DETEST that woman. Besides treating Hillary in the most ruthless, disrespectful manner possible - Pelosi is a stupid DIRT BAG. She really needs to permanently GO AWAY.
Pelosi was instrumental in all the congressional failings. She is also complicit in this Obama criminal conspiracy. She should pay the price along with Reid, Dean & Brazile. And, the only job for which Obama is qualified is as a “prison cellmate”. Perhaps Pelosi, Reid, Dean & Brazile can be Obama’s prison playmates?
LOVE to see THAT happen!
“the reports are saying LOTS of AMERICANS may not vote for him partly because they think he will make race relations worse”
Obama has already made race relations worse. Is this what an Obama administration would be like - race all day every day? Let’s talk about race. Race, race, race.
Sounds like a ‘Hail Mary’ strategy to me. They know they’ve lost the election.
But Obama? He is perfect.
Oh…I don’t even know where to start with that line…
wow.
I have never disliked a candidate more–for his hypocrisy, arrogance, weakness, duplicity, lack of integrity, insensitivity, and on and on.
I guess “perfect” is in the eye of the beholder.
I have said the GE is about TRUST. Obama cannot win in that regard, because he deliberately remains vague, so he can change his positions as needed. When people go into that booth to vote, they will ask themselves who do I trust? It will not be Obama.
Obama’s campaign may be playing the racial guilt card at the moment, but I believe that if it looks like that isn’t working, particularly after the second presidential (as well as the only vice presidential) debate, they are fully prepared to play the racial unrest and violence card as a last-minute effort to influence the electorate through fear. I hope that they don’t do this, I only bring it up because I sense that very early stage feelers and preps are already underway.
I believe that playing that card will backfire and be unsuccessful. I also believe that playing that card is where decent Democrats and independents must decisively draw the line and censue those individuals and organizations that make that play.
We’ll see what happens.
hey
for the record. I said I would vote for Obama IF I vote.
also I live in IL so it doesnt matter much how I vote.
it was sloppy. and what was interpreted as support for Obama was not really that at all.
it was more an admission that I am conflicted, as many democrats are, and it was unfortunate because the larger point I was trying to make about Obama losing because of his race was lost on some people.
sorry.
I am sort of new at this and I will get better at saying what I really mean. hopefully.
If they’re using “Kennedy as a model” then a blind tailor cut out the pattern. It’s a VERY BAD FIT, and I’m not just talking about the obvious lunacy of trying to make Michelle Obama look like “MASSIVE JACKIE” or the silly poses Obama affects to try to evoke JFK.
Obama is not a great speaker. AT ALL. He is a great teleprompter reader, and there is a difference.
Kennedy could speak in any venue–extemporaneously, in small groups, to large audiences–anytime, anywhere. He could connect on all levels. He was WITTY.
Obama needs the words in front of him on the little magic machine, so he can read them in a ponderous, hectoring, UP and DOWN, UP and DOWN tone. Waaah, waaah, waaaah. And WAAH!!!! His is a performance–you watch it, from afar, but you aren’t part of it. It’s the same shit, over and over and over again, like a poodle jumping through a hoop at the circus–the poodle is never going to do anything new or different.
You know damned well it doesn’t matter if you’re there or not, because Obama’s not speaking to you, or ANYONE in the audience, really–he is just digging the sound of his own voice.
And if Obama really wants to be JFK, he’s gotta grow a spine, get some geopolitical education, support a more HAWKISH national security policy (JFK was NOT the Kumbayah Kid), and stop APOLOGIZING, as if America is guilty of every wrong in the world. JFK was not a whining WEAKLING. Obama is.
He’s also shy about 13 years experience in the US House and Senate, as well as time in military service in a leadership position.
We knew JFK, and he’s no JFK. The attempted comparison is a load of bullshit, aside from being an insult.