I won’t go quietly into that good night – Guest Post
By elise on November 18, 2008 at 5:30 PM in Patriotism
(This is Elise’s response to our invitation to vent. Thank you, Elise, for your wonderful submission. There are many more submissions yet to be printed! – Susan, with the great, let’s-all-pitch-in help of American Girl in Italy, a real trooper as well as an excellent, sharp-as-a-tack writer.)
The invitation to rant is irresistible even though I have done so many times without invitation here at NQ. I remember some on sexism, the DNC, the media and, especially, when someone unfairly criticized Hillary.
I have been reading and commenting here for a while now after unsubscribing to TM, Huffpo, Daily Kos and others. I lurk a great deal on River Daughter, but seldom comment there. I recognize the names of the regulars here and the style and attitudes of the bloggers. Still, after all these months, I feel a little bit of an outsider.
Patriotism is not something I feel completely comfortable with, but I occasionally get tears in my eyes when I hear the National Anthem and I respect the flag. I have never hesitated to criticize the government when I disagree with the policies and I believe a country is only as good as it’s citizens. I strongly believe countries have Karma. We are responsible for the way we are governed so I have been active in politics for a long time.
9/11 was a crossroad. An opportunity was offered to correct some bad choices in the past, but we allowed and even participated in the decision to go into another country, inflict devastation and kill it’s leader. We have paid the price for seven long years.
I have undergone an amazing transformation over those years and the year and a half of the election process. I have found out that every assault against the Constitution feels the way I imagine I would feel watching someone I love being physically assaulted. Every report of renditions, torture, illegal wiretaps and Black Sites has been a blow that brings tears to my eyes and a deep sadness to my heart.
I want it back and I don’t want to wait until Congress or the President decides it is a worthy document and should be followed the way it’s authors intended and not thrown away at their pleasure. I am not so naive to expect complete honesty from our government, but why do we elect sleaze and expect them not to be parasites and act in their own best interest? I hate to agree with Obama about anything, but why are members of Congress even allowed to wear the flag on their lapels?
If the Constitution or any law allows Congress to spend $700Bil in taxpayer money to bail out greedy bankers or mismanaged companies, I would like someone to show it to me. The Congress passes laws most of them have not read in their entirety, then the president decides which ones he is to going to observe. If they want to throw out the Constitution and Bill of Rights, don’t you think they should tell us so that we can have a voice in the decision?
There is this thing I want to know about Barrack Obama. I lean to the left when it comes to questions of universal health care, choice for women, the environment, gun control , equality and helping other Americans over the rough places. In that sense, I am a socialist, but I understand compromise is necessary. So I should be thrilled at the prospect of a liberal president even with the understanding, practically, his social agenda will have to be put on hold until the economy is stable. I have a very real problem with Bill Ayers, probably because I have an excellent memory and shared this space that is our country when he was a member of the Weathermen and don’t believe his ego will allow him to admit his organization’s goal was anathema to most Americans. Rev. Wright doesn’t bother me all that much although, unfortunately, he has too much influence in some groups. Rezko is a criminal and represents an unseemly past for Obama. He bothers me, but a majority of Americans have ignored the implications for Obama.
But, what I really want to know about Pres-elect Obama is; How does he feel about our Constitution which he will take an oath to uphold in January? Will he be tempted by the power available to him to follow in the footsteps of his predecessor and bypass FISA, ignore the other two branches of government and follow an unknown agenda? His FISA vote isn’t reassuring, but perhaps, that was just politics which doesn’t say a lot for his character either.
He doesn’t have to balance the budget, end the war or create universal health care to restore the Constitution. It won’t cost a cent to repeal the Patriot Act or the Military Commissions Act. Ethics reform costs nothing. Changing the election process in the Democratic Party to make it more representative would be an indication he is willing to make real change in Washington.
Thank you nq, for all the information and food for thought. I believe you have been the most respectful of dissent and the true spirit of democracy on the Internet. Many bloggers and those who regularly leave comments here have indicated their age is advanced and for some of us, this will be our last election cycle. For years, we have fought the good fight. We have fought for our country and against our government when we believed it erred. We have marched for Civil Rights and Women’s Rights and protested two wars. We have learned all governments lie, we appreciate our freedom of speech and use it and we have seen infringement of our rights and protested that too. Maybe we didn’t accomplish all we had hoped, but I refuse to accept the idea the wisdom we have gained is irrelevant.
I have discovered, unlike Bill Ayers, I love my country. If it has to become something else, I won’t go quietly into that good night, but will protest to the end.
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Excellent post!!! Bravo!
I was following with your argument until the following:
I have discovered, unlike Bill Ayers, I love my country.”
Attack Bill Ayers in any way you want. He’s a madman, a terrorist, a radical.
But you think he doesn’t love his country? He has sick and perverted views about what is best for this country, but you think he would have done what he did had he not loved his country?
Of course he loved his country. He loved his country that it pained him to see it fall so low during Vietnam. I had many of the same feelings during that era – although took to a much different (peaceful) course.
But this is ENTIRELY the PROBLEM. We convince ourselves that those with whom we disagree don’t love this country as much as we do. One’s patriotism is internal, it’s something deep inside of us, and we all have different ways of expressing it. It is absurd to question the patriotism of a single American, and by doing so you weaken your own argument.
As someone who you would probably call a “bot,” I believe in my heart that Obama will close Guantanamo and end torture. The fact that he has kept up this rhetoric post-election is extremely pleasing to me and should be to all.
That being said, I fear that this will not be enough for all – including yourself; including the Daily Kos crowd. I fear that no matter what is done you will ask for more. There have been a lot of wrongs committed over the past 8 years and it will take a long time to reverse them.
However, as I said earlier, I am pleased with the early steps I am seeing from the President-elect. Speaking out for Lieberman. Potentially Hillary as SOS. These are good signs.
I hope that we are not too divided that those here will be willing to admit when he does something good. If he closes Guantanamo, will you praise him? If he helps pass Universal Health Care, will you admit he has done good?
Similarly, I hope those to the far left are not too quick to put their own ideology ahead of this country. If he appoints Hillary SOS, will you admit she is the best for this country? If the health care passed has no mandates, will you admit it is a good first step?
I hope that we’re not all too immersed in our own beliefs that we cannot recognize that we must compromise to solve our problems. I hope that we are not all too hard-headed to admit when we are wrong.
I hope that Obama helps this country become stronger. And I hope that every other American, ALL of whom love their country just as much as I do, share my hopes.
Janoh, I’m sorry if you think I am unfairly judging Bill Ayers. This is a quote from Bernadine Dohrn after the Manson murders:
“Dig it,” explained Bernardine Dohrn, now married(!) to Bill Ayers. “First they killed those pigs; then they ate dinner in the same room with them; then they even shoved a fork into a victim’s stomach. Wild!”
When Bill Ayers walked out of the courtroom the day charges were dropped against him he said the following:
“Guilty as hell. Free as a bird. Great Country.”
Millions were involved in protests against the Vietnam War. Inspired by the non violent protests of MLK and the history of Gandhi, we believed in our cause. We wanted an end to the war and an end to the draft.
The Weathermen wanted a different form of government and envisioned a revolution to establish communism. In the end even the Black Panthers and the Students For A Democratic Society renounced the Weathermen for their violence and sexism.
Ayers was full of rage then, but it had nothing to do with ending the war. His father was wealthy and he was never drafted. Anyone who loves their country, understands it isn’t perfect and will commit themselves to a lifetime of stewardship, to protest, to make it better. If you love it, you don’t want to destroy it or be careless of it’s well being.
Has he changed? I don’t think so, but that’s my opinion. It isn’t his ideology. It is his ego.
As far as Obama is concerned, if he closes gitmo, reinstates the FISA court with no immunity for those who have violated the Constitution, ends the war and respects the separation of the three branches of our government, I will breath a sigh of relief. I will never like him because he participated in an unforgivably nasty and dishonest campaign against another Democrat.
If he fails, I won’t say, “I told you so” and be sad so many have been deceived. I will hope it will not discourage you from participating in process, because that would be the greatest tragedy.
BilL Ayers didn’t disagree with us. He waged war against the United States.
I love my country also. Thank you for such a great post. I guess we will find out what Obama believes real soon.
Country First!
Elise says:
“The Congress passes laws most of them have not read in their entirety, then the president decides which ones he is to going to observe. If they want to throw out the Constitution and Bill of Rights, don’t you think they should tell us so that we can have a voice in the decision?”
I am one of those older commenters. In my working life, I was a government regulator. What you say about Congress also applies also to State governments. From my vantage point, I have seen a relentless erosion of the rule of law WITHIN government over the last 20 years with both Republican and Democratic control. This disregard has reduced many of our laws and rules and regulations to meaningless charades. The laws are selectively enforced and are used as a means of political oppression as much as anything.
I hope that the Supreme Court starts to reverse this trend by making a clear ruling on Obama’s eligibility for the Office of President…come hell or high water. Obama seemingly has already given the finger and the brush-off to the Court by already resigning his Senate seat. If the Court doesn’t give a clear ruling, then I think that branch of government will have joined with the other two branches in telling us in no uncertain terms that they, the leaders, have indeed flushed the Constitution down the toilet.
But I’m with you, I don’t intend to go quietly into that good night either.
Thanks for the post Elise. This election also reminded me that I am a patriot. That I love this country, respect the flag, will pledge allegiance to it anytime with my hand over my heart, and will fight for our Constitution and our Bill of Rights. Bush certainly showed his contempt for it. Obama has also shown his contempt for it and I don’t expect much more from him except to continue Bush’s attitudes and policies. But what saddens me the most is how the divide has been continuously widened by both these men in their quest for power. Many of us have been disenfranchised, disempowered, and pronounced unimportant. I don’t hold out any great hopes for this new stolen presidency. But it seems that it’s just business as usual for those in government. No questioning, no vetting, no upholding our laws. I think we have again reached the point of taxation without representation. What we do about it is another matter.
It’s time for a revolution.
Thanks for a wonderful and very thoughtful “rant”.
I love my country so dearly, that it worries me to place it in the wrong hands.Knowing that the country’s business is handled by more than a hundred experts, President-Elect Obama’s job will be easy. He’ll just either say: “YES”. “NO” or “MAYBE” (this time around).
However, for my country, I wish President-Elect a successful administration.
God Bless America!!!
Thank you for your wonderful post. It resonates with this former dem. Prior to this election cycle, I would have considered myself a progressive, leaning farther to the left than the center. I ued to listen to Air America 24/7. Then something happened. Obama’s fraudulent tactics throughout the primary season, gave me pause to question my beliefs. I was/am a huge Hillary supporter. It is hard to say that I am happy with the outcome of the election, but I am grateful. This election cycle has me questioning my former party and my own beliefs. Country first. What that says to me, is that I will still question what my country does or doesn’t do, but I will never put party before country. I will no longer walk into a voting booth, and place a checkmark by a name, simply because it has a D beside it. I consider myself more discerning and I am happy for it. No one party has all the answers. We must work together, if we really want to solve the enormous problems we are facng. I agree, country first. We must stand up for our constitution, and fair elections. I will do everything I can to make sure we live up that great document.
What does he think of the Constitution? In his OWN words “It’s a FLAWED DOCUMENT.” What does he think of Freedom of Speech? He thinks we shouldn’t have it. As in the Fairness Doctrine, or HIS version of it. But I have friends who are already suffering from the widespread internet thuggery of OVomit and his band of sick f**k trolls. Posts, threads, blogs, etc. that don’t reflect well on OVomit already are disappearing and this morning someone I know was mysteriously unable to get onto a site he has gone to every single day because of a post about OVomit. The post got poofed and he got locked out. Hmmm….Freedom of Speech is a soon to be distant past memory. How about that 2nd Amendment and the “right to bear arms?” That’s going to go. And maybe he’ll just do it as a 500% tax on guns and ammo. Gee, now that would mean that only a certain part of the population could AFFORD that Constitutional right. We already lost our free vote. Out President was selected by the media. Who the hell can be even REMOTELY optimistic about this ridiculous freak being President? Come ON. Within two years, the Flag, Christmas, ANY mention of God in ANY school, etc. ALL of it will be GONE GONE GONE. And before you say I’m being hyperbolic, read HIS OWN WORDS.
I’m with you, OIAF. I think we already know who The Pretender is, and what he thinks of the Constitution. And I find it a bit scary, to say the least. Sadly enough, he wraps his disdain of the Constitution in pretty words and kool-aid colors.
I love my country too, and I won’t go gentle into that good night. I will rage against the dying of the light, and for me that means standing against The Pretender.
Elise, at 57 I’m not sure I’d consider myself advanced in age, but I do remember marching against the war in Vietnam, fighting for women’s rights and civil rights, and being on the receiving end of blatant sexism in the workplace. I’d like to think that what I’ve learned is not wasted, and one thing I’ve learned is not to accept that the ends justifies the means. So, I’ll not stand in support of The Pretender’s presidency, and I’ll hold him accountable for every violation of our Constitution from now until 2012.
I’m not going quietly either. I have joined every single “resistance movement” I can find. And I will fight every day from January 20 forward to stop this criminal creep from destroying our Constitution. Who the hell does this jerk think he is? This is A-M-E-R-I-C-A. We didn’t get here by just sitting around letting people steal our rights. I don’t think OVomit is prepared in ANY way to see the sheer volume of people who won’t put up with his nonsense.
OIAF and SFIndy, I totally agree. What a shock this election has been. And what a trashing of our laws, our constitution, our free speech, and hatred to a level that is astounding, directed at two competent women. After what was perpetrated in this past election, I don’t believe that the selected one will be able to do much uniting in this country.
Snickers…I agree. He has actually DIVIDED this country more than anyone in history. And he’s not even in the WH yet. It’s just the biggest NIGHTMARE of our lives. The hatred is amazing. You can SMELL IT IN THE AIR. I literally feel like a black cloud is hanging over this country. Ughhh….
Hey Beautiful..
I look at the frown index..
In my travels, I look at the expressions on everyone’s face.. I have never seen such gloomy angry people.. Like a bomb went off or how everyone reacted after 911.
Obama is going to have a very short honeymoon. He gamed the system to win but may regret the final result.
Hey Handsome….
Yeah it’s a little gloomy. Wait until people realize what they really got. A pig in a poke. ROFLMAO. Honeymoon my azz.
I can see now why you don’t want Hillary anywhere near this mess
I pray she doesn’t do it. She deserves better than the SS Fraudbama Titanic.
Snickers and OIAF, I absolutely agree that The Pretender has divided this country in ways that mirror the huge chasms during the civil rights movement and the Vietnam war. There’s a civil war brewing in the country, and it won’t be fought with guns, it will be fought with the power of knowledge and adherence to our Constitution, and a refusal to continue accepting the corruption of our government – the presidency and the congress. I can feel that black cloud, too; it’s heavy and suffocating. But I, for one, refuse to just lay down and let it envelop me. I’m going to fight back with everything I’ve got!
To paraphrase, hell hath no fury like a pissed off woman!
SFIndiePUMA –
I won’t go down without the fight either. America is worth fighting for and we have to honor our forefathers who fought for US to have our rights. America is the most unique place in the world and I won’t let some pansy azz loser take us down. I actually think that as much as it will divide this country, the revolution will bond the patriots more than ever.
Yes, we have to stand up and not let this kind of theft and these constant violations to our laws happen. I still hope the Supremes will stand up and demand his vault birth certificate. The One is so NOT my president since I don’t believe in lying, cheating, stealing, race baiting, hating, misogyny, and the list continues.
Not only do we need to find out if he believes in our country’s consitution, We need to find out if he is legally eligible.
By not addressing this issue it does bother me a whole lot. At first I thought everyone was out to lunch on this one.
Yet Obama is now our President elect and he has not addressed the questions the bring up doubts about his citizenship qualifications. Obama is not willing to show America his live-Birth certificate Obama is not willing to adress or answer questions about the reasons for his name change while in Indonesia(did his stepdad and mom lie, or was he adopted and became an Indonesian citizen>). What type of pass port did Obama use to get into Pakinstan in the 80s.
Sorry but these questions still nag me. For the truthful answers to these questions tell us not only about his background but his constitutional eligibility for the office of President.
The Birth Certificate issue is a real one. It’s alive and well and is NOT a “tin foil hat” wacko conspiracy. The man REFUSES to show a REAL BC. There are now 17 lawsuits against him. WTF? How easy would it be to just SHOW the documents? No one can answer that. Not even the loser TROLLZ who just keep saying that there is some BS alleged BC in Hawaii somewhere. Great, THEN SHOW IT. From what I can see, this is NOT going away any time soon. No one is going to stop until this fraud is uncovered. OVomit thinks he is above the law, above the Constitution, and he doesn’t have to serve the people of this country. He thinks the office of POTUS is just another “stepping stone” on the way to his delusions of “ruling the world.” He’s is ISANE. Literally out of his frigging mind. And no one has he ballz to stop him from this BS. I’m sitting here wondering if he actually has had the power to PAY OFF Supreme Court Justices. Is that possible? Are they on the payroll from Daddy Soros too? This is the most corrupt country in world history. We make Castro look like a benevolent little man.
The long legged mac daddy has not shown one single document.
And at this point he will not ever show his BC. And yes he will get away with it, b/c the american we knew is over. It’s now The OBAMA Nation and they will paid off judges , courts, etc to get what they want; and if that does not work, then they will blackmail, and/or threaten the person and their family members to get what they want->that’s what our country has become. That’s how he became the President-Elect and that’s how he will run the country. Welcome to Our NEW AMERICA!
This creeps me out. If they are really buying off judges, etc. then we ARE totally done.
It is creepy because for this to happen, the selection of someone as president who is a mystery, collusion must have taken place between the three branches of government and the two political parties that have no Constitutional standing.
Any time the votes are tampered with, whether in the United States or elsewhere, it is a fraudulent election and by taking the votes for Senator Clinton from Florida and Michigan in the primaries and then returning them all to the candidate known as Obama at the Convention is fraud.
The silence from the government and the Republican party is the key.
I’m skeptical that the birth certificate is a real issue. His mother was a US citizen, so wouldn’t that make Obama a US citizen, regardless of where he is born?
No, because a presidential candidate must be a natural born citizen of the United States, not just a citizen. His mother being natural born has no bearing on her children born outside of the U.S.
There is evidence that the mother allowed her child, known as Barry Soertoro, to be adopted by his stepfather which would end his U. S. citizenship. There is also evidence that when female citizens of the U. S. accompany foreign born husbands to their native countries where women are not equal socially or under the law they become subject to the laws of their husband’s country, in this case Indonesia. And if you don’t think they lose their rights do a search for women who have asked for U. S. assistance in helping them and their children return to the U.S.
There is also the problem of divided loyalties from dual citizenship. We have already seen one surface when the man known as Barack Hussein Obama went to Kenya and campaigned for his Kenyan cousin Odinga while holding the title of U. S.. Senator. That indicates that he put the Kenyan election of his cousin ahead of his responsibilities to our government and its People. Not a good way to show loyalty to the United States and certainly not something to reward him for.
The birth certificate issue is also a real one for me. I’m a naturalized citizen and I know I’m not elible to be POTUS. We’ve all had to show our birth certificate or other ID papers continuously in our lives, why is it this man gets away with sealing all his records? Why can’t we get information on him?
Thank you for the great post. I think Robert C. Byrd said it best when he was arguing against the Resolution, “My hands may shake, but my heart throbs for the Constitution of the United States!”
Thanks for the post…
Yea, but then Byrd ignored his own constituents who voted for HRC by a huge margin in WV, and endorsed BO, because Soros is one of his biggest contributors. So much for principle.
Thank you for this great post. I am also a here from TM.
I agree with Elise in most of the observations. I am a moderate slightly left of center always want to extend help to fellow citizens in times of need. Come to think of it, isn’t that one of the prime reasons we organized socieity into governmental and nongovernmental entities, in the first place. Lately, it seems, we have come to claim,rather loudly and frequently, too much piety and patriotism, while pursuing a whole lot of nefarious goals.
I become disheartened at the thought of karma and God’s justice. I hope we start mending our ways – sooner than later.
Oblama says the constitution is a flawed document. That’s more of his projecting. He’s the Flawed ‘President select’. He hates the constitution and wants communism. His Mom and grandparents were communists. Yep. True thing. So he doesn’t think there is anything wrong with communism
Buisiness is at a stand still now. It was brisk when Mac was surging in the polls. Obama stock market crash is looming. Maybe there is room in Alaska where I can live off the land.
Nothing is perfect, even our Founding Fathers knew that; but our Constitution is known as one of the most perfect documents ever written and Mr. Soertoro is not intelligent enough to question its perceived “flaws”.
Perhaps he needs to read up on it before he’s allowed to assume control of our democracy since he spent much of his youth in a police state culture without the benefit of our “flawed” Constitution especially since the primaries convinced me that he thinks he still inhabits one.
Really good work, and I admire your resolve!
I am one of the advanced age crowd here, and that is why I started by being so interested in this election…it was to be truly historic!
Not only was the best candidate a woman, she was supposed to win easily.
Well? That turned out badly!
I have rounded enough bends to look at things differently now, and no party or person has my loyalty!
It’s a two way street, and I deserve respect, and they need to earn mine!
Elise
I with you 100%. Thank you for an excellent post.
it is a great post! I loved it.
or maybe something you shouldn’t be too comfortable with as its used as a cudgel against those who disagree with a practices of a government, not the founding principles of a nation. God turns from the sentry who sleeps.
Your “rant” is passionate and well written. Maybe that comes with age also.
ip, underneath the anger at the dishonesty of this election and fear of what will happen when a novice enters the Oval Office in Jan, there is sorrow. Those of us who have seen many campaigns and elections, feel we have lost something we won’t be able to retrieve. I’m not being dramatic when I say I have never shed a tear over any campaign in the past, but I am grieving now.
Thank you Elise for the great post. It certainly describes how many of us feel. This is like watching someone we love be physically assaulted and every legal recourse available to us has been stonewalled.
I can’t help but feel that we don’t fight for our Constituion and all it stands for, that we won’t have a constituion left. Between Obama, his team, and the activist Supreme Court judges, our very foundation will disappear.
Excellelnt post!
“Rage, rage against the dying of the light.”
thank you for the excellent post.
Thank you, elise.
Thanks for a really graat article. Your questions are my questions. Also, BHO thought (and Biden too) a campaign strategy to disenfranchise voters was fine. I’m really worried.
Not to be picky, but isn’t it “Do not go gentle into that good night”? Dylan Thomas would be pleased to be quoted correctly, yes?
Your right, cathrin. I paraphrased and that is a sin against Dylan Thomas. I’m happy to meet some one who is also a fan of this wonderful poet. This poem and “The Boys Of Summer” are my favorites.