Setting the Record Straight
By dcmediagirl on November 19, 2008 at 10:55 AM in Current Affairs
(bumped up by NoQuarter)
I’ve been debating whether or not to post these thoughts for several weeks now. On the one hand I really don’t want the aggravation that is bound to ensue as a result of what I’m about to write, but on the other hand I have to address what I believe is a disturbing trend in the comments section of this blog.
The boards appear to have been hijacked by some of No Quarter’s most shrill and unhinged readers. Thanks to Larry’s generosity I’ve been writing for this blog for quite some time and have enjoyed interacting with NQ fans, who have turned this corner of the Internets into a thriving community. I’ve noticed that many of the former regulars don’t post anymore. I can’t help but wonder whether they’re disgusted, too frightened or intimidated to express their thoughts.
I won’t mention any names, but some of you need to check yourselves. Those of you who claim to speak for “America” (and you know who you are) need to dial down your Muslim-baiting, your xenophobia and your paranoia. I think some of you took a wrong turn on the information highway. The Free Republic is that way —————–>
There are those of you who are writing about Barack Obama in increasingly hysterical terms, comparing him to Hitler, Castro (pick one – or both if you like), Hugo Chavez, a Marxist danger, a terrorist, a Maoist, a militant Muslim Mancurian candidate…the list goes on and on. Meanwhile those posters also criticize Obama for his thin record and having skipped so many votes during his time of service. How that circle can be squared is beyond me, and quite frankly I’m not interested in exploring the possibilities.
Then there’s the whole George W. Bush revisionist history crowd, who are a) not impressed with or moved by facts and b) eager to “move on” and not dwell on boring old history. One poster wrote that Bush’s decision to invade Iraq will be viewed so favorably by history that he’ll be another Harry Truman. No comment. For those of you who are not part of the tin foil hat crowd, a brief laundry list of of the Bush administrations many, many crimes:
Florida 2000
Guantanamo: a human trafficking operation on a massive scale
FISA
The PATRIOT Act - I don’t think anyone to this day knows how many Consititutional violations are contained in this rancid piece of legislation, passed by a passel of craven “lawmakers” who allowed themselves to be bullied into voting “aye” to avoid being labeled as “with the terrorists”
Turning Americans into sheep, too scared and frightened by orange alerts and other “threats” (which tended to crop up when bad news was about to hit, or when elections were imminent. A coincidence I’m sure).
Shredding the Constitution
Appointing an Attorney General who appeared to have no understanding of the law. Any law. A man who “could not recall” anything that happened over the course of his miserable tenure. A man so incompetent and slavishly devoted to his master that he managed to achieve the impossible – turn the insane John Ashcroft into a sympathetic figure.
Cheney. Rove. Wolfowitz. Feith. Yoo.
“Pootie Poot”.
Strongarming the CIA into distorting its intelligence to fit the agenda.
Rushing back to the White House to sign the Terry Schiavo bill.
Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson.
Max Cleland.
Non-existent unconfiscated WMDs leading to imaginary mushroom clouds.
The most unpopular President in modern history. And that’s just among Americans.
If those of you who come here to be apologists for George W. Bush don’t like what I’ve written, well, I don’t actually give a fuck. Good luck to you. I’m all about moving on but not about forgive and forget, not for the Bush crowd. The country George W. Bush wrecked during his wretched 8 years in the White House is not the country I was born in and not the country my immigrant family chose to live in.
Right on. Bush and the criminals need to go to the gray bar motel where they can room with Obama and AxelRove and the Democratic criminals.
I’d go for that!
During the campaign season, I came here because I found traditional Democrats who were unhappy with the party of Howard Dean and Donna Brazille. It seems those people have left this board and now all that is left are the people whose hobby is to bash Bush.
You will bring up Gonzales, yet not once have any of you ever mentioned Janet Reno, and her storm troopers in Florida or the disasterous way she handled Waco.
You will talk about Bush’s illegal war in Iraq but never mention that it was President Clinton who called for regime change in Iraq, signing the Iraq Liberation Act in Dec. ‘98, and then proceeded to lob 400 cruise missiles into Iraq during “Operation Desert Fox”.
You will cry and complain about GITMO, but you don’t stop to think what will happen if the ACLU gets its way and those terrorists at GITMO are brought here only to be released into our general public by some liberal judge when we can’t get their own nations to take them back.
You will blame President Bush for the Plame Game, but never mention that it was really Richard Armitage who leaked that information and Colin Powell who knew it and remained silent.
Presidents make mistakes; all of them. Washington did, Lincoln did, FRD and Truman damn sure did, as did President Clinton. But it is only the mistakes of Bush that you are concerned with.
So I guess if this is where this board is now going, simply a sounding board for the Bush bashers, there is no more room for us traditional Democrats. Sad.
Yes, Bush has made mistakes. Our borders are still wide open, illegals who should not be here are still killing American citizens, ICE is still a disaster, the Community Reinvestment Act is still alive and well. But we have not had another attack on Americans in 7 years and we have lost less soldiers in 6 years of war than we did on Iwo Jima.
No one is listening on your phone calls to you buddy while you talk about a Super Bowl party or where to go fishing next weekend. But for putting our safety first, well,it seems that you cannot even give credit where due.
In two months, President Bush will be part of our history, and then you will see just how far left this nation can go. I mean really far left; George Soros far left. Then what? Will we see protesters carrying signs of Obama portrayed as Hilter or decapitated? Will the media take him on? Or will they continue to protray Obama as Lincoln?
You got what you wanted, Democratic control that will be out of control. Will you undermine them like you have the current administration for the last 8 years? I think not.
So now the coming together to defeat Obama has ended. And while ACORN worked to get him elected, my guess is that you will chose to dwell on the past.
Now, please feel free to attack me, a fellow American who is more worried about our nation than at anytime since I first voted for JFK. It’s what seems to be done best here since Nov. 5, 2008.
Sad.
“But it is only the mistakes of Bush that you are concerned with.”
Excuse me, but what part of the 4,201 troop casualties and counting, plus the trillions of dollars spent on an illegal war, in which the president LIED to EVERYONE about WMDs, not to mention the obscene number of Iraqi casualties, is nothing more to you than a ‘typical presidential mistake?’
I agree with dcmedia girl. Comments like yours, as you try to re-write the Bush legacy are deeply disturbing if they represent some of the thinking among Americans.
Simply put, there are lots of blogs for people who think as you do. I never got the sense that NQ, who welcomes varying opinions, is the blog you are looking for.
mimi, I understand that you probably suffer from SCD (severe cognitive disorder) but see if you can wrap your head around this: We lost more troops in six years of war than we did in the storming of Normandy beach. We are fighting an enemy more dangerous as they have no concern for civilians, pledge allegiance to no nation and wear no uniform. And the reasons for going to war were expressed louding by Hillary herself (would you like me to reiterate her comments on Iraq for you?). So if Bush lied, so did Hillary, John Kerry and John Edwards. History doesn’t allow a redo, so perhaps you would like to list the number of Democrats on the Hill who voted against the “Authorization to Use Military Force In Iraq” Bill. It seems it is you who choses to change history as you ignore the words of the very Democrats who were for the war before they were against it for political expediency. But alas, I guess rationonal thought eludes you.
How you try to claim I am “rewriting” Bush’s history is beyond me, except I can only assume you do not have the capacity to understand the written word. Instead of addressing the points I made, you chose to insult me. Then, in your not so subtle way you tell me to leave. Liberal tolerance in full display.
But you see, mimi, those of us who study history and think we should learn from it, are not going away, no matter what kind of childish fit you throw.
My guess is that you will continue to blame President Bush for 9-11 but will excuse another attack on American soil if it comes within the first year of the Obama “rule” at also being Bush’s fault. You will sit quietly by as the new “Civilian Security Force” is initiated and your children are put into involunatary servitude as they are required to do “community service” whether you like it or not. You will scream how Bush is really Bushitler, while you ignore a man occupies the Oval Office that possesses the largest ego of any president since FDR.
So when you decide that you can argue, based on facts, and not emotions, let me know. But I won’t hold my breath.
The grand fact is that 9/11 happened under GWB’s watch!
The planning and fund raising for 9/11 took place under Clinton. The unchallenged rise to power of al-Qaida took place under Clinton. Bin Laden walked through Clinton’s crosshairs several times but Clinton didn’t have the nads to pull the trigger. Clinton may have warned the incoming Bush admin. about a potential threat from al-Qaida, but isn’t that the definition of “Passing the Buck”? Can we sum up the Clinton doctrine regarding terrorism to be “let’s just hope it doesn’t get too dicie before we leave office”? Half a dozen al-Qaida sponsored attacks happened under Clinton that mostly went unchallenged. At least Bush was only reading about a goat when when 9/11 happened, what if a major incident had happened while Clinton was having sex with a goat (Lewinsky) in the Whitehouse? Just some uncomfortable thoughts.
Blame Clinton, naturally! That meme is really getting old.
Why did GWB, et al, ignore the intelligence memo which spelled out the impending 9/11 attacks? TERRORIST TO ATTACK ON AMERICAN SOIL.
GWB — well, let’s just say he was waiting for his trifecta.
Why do we blame anyone but the men who planned and executed this horrible deed.
This is what I struggle with, why are we attacking each other? Like the calico cat and the calico dog, we will be nothing but scraps when we are done.
Yes, Clinton did not use superhuman wisdom, nor has Bush. We need to stay focused on the real issue here. How will we prevent terrorist attacks, and protect our children and our future? Do we know for sure that fighting this war has not made us safer? Do we know for sure that Clinton’s policies made us vulnerable? I have to believe that these men have functioned in good faith. We can disagree, but while we play the blame game, there are individuals who want to harm us no matter what side of the argument we are on.
Clinton made mistakes. Bush stole the election in 2000 and violated the Constitution, and a whole other laundry list of horrors. None of this excuses what the Democrats did in this past election cycle. We are supposed to be part of the solution. The group that defends and supports women’s rights, the GLBT community, the working gal/guy, etc. Instead they used the worst thuggery and corruption to STEAL this election. They have contravened the Constitution – something they screamed at Bush about – they have the end justifies the means mentality, and in this moment, when our country is facing some of the most extreme problems in the economy, job losses, foreclosures, voter fraud, theft of an election, a man put into office who refuses to show the simplest documentation, there is NO ONE to turn to. Voters in MA have returned Barney Frank to Congress despite the fact that he is in this Fannie Mae mess up to his chin. Democrats won a huge majority because voters refuse to get informed and look at the issues. Barry was elected simply because of the color of his skin. We have a huge constitutional crisis because of the fraud perpetrated by the Democrats. Yesterday you write an article about Joe Lieberman needing to be kicked out of the Democrat’s sandbox because he supported McCain or broke some other rules. When he isn’t even a Democrat any more and was doing them a favor caucusing with them to keep their slim majority before this election?
I don’t know what’s going on with people who can avert their eyes at the level of fraud conducted this election cycle, but I can’t – because this is a self-perpetuating cycle. It will get worse if we don’t stop it.
I suggest everyone re-read LD’s posts to refresh their minds about the economic mess we’re facing right now, and then do some research on the Shariah banking system we are putting in place. I don’t think people are being unnecessarily shrill. People are frightened and confused and we have a right to be.
If you have studied history, you will find that other than the election of George Washington, all the other presidential campaigns and elections were just as full of skullduggery and backroom shenanigans as our current elections have been.
I agree.
May I answer that partially?
Clinton’s admin had nothign to do with 911. Bush in his 1st 9 or 10 months of office reportedly took 11 vacations back to his ranch. Lord I don’t recall exact details and don’t want to google it, but I believe it was (Condi?) who was presented with secret documents of a pending attack. It was her or someone as important and close to Bush who was presented with these documents in person by a couple of intelligence people.
the document, the warning, was IGNORED.
it’s not as simple as that, but, it’s as simple as that.
Republicans hate the Clintons and are jealous as hell of his successful presidency. They will blame him for anything and everything and get away with it.
And the fact is that the first World Trade Center bombing happened on Bill Clinton’s watch. The fact that the terrorists were inept in their ability to bring it down that time doesn’t speak to Clinton’s ability to prevent the attempt.
How you can hold Bush liable and not Clinton liable is beyond anyone with two grey cells bumping together. If one is at fault, both are at fault.
Why didn’t Clinton prevent the first try?
The enemy we’re fighting today is more dangerous than Nazi Germany? Because the Nazis respected civilians? LOL.
All I can say is, I think it’s a great step forward that, now that the election is over, PUMAs are finally facing up to the fact that much of this year’s anti-Obama rhetoric was actually coming from Republicans who believe nonsense like this. Thank you for this essay.
sf,
The enemy we face today are Individuals with no state and no respect for laws that with the right weapons of mass destruction are stronger than any nation state.
This is the first time in history where the sovereign nation state has no real security.
I’m glad that in a post yesterday that you acknowledged finally the reality of Islamic radicalism.
Seattle, you could spend the rest of the week searching the NQ archives and you will never find a post in which I denied the reality of Islamic radicalism. To the contrary, I argued dozens of times that Obama’s plans for combatting Islamic radicalism were much smarter, more knowledgeable and touhger-minded than McCain’s macho, strutting fantasies. Obama argued that we should not drain resources from Afghanistan to move to Iraq; that we needed a set withdrawal date from Iraq; that we needed a dramatic expansion of resources in Afghanistan; and that we needed to directly attack Al Qaeda and the Taliban in the Afghan/Pakistan border. He was right about all these things, and McCain and Bush were wrong.
Needless to say, he successfully made this case to the American people as well.
The reality is that Iraq with it’s infrastructure and petrol dollars is the central front on terrorism. Obama will find out very quickly that Afganistan is riddled with tribes and impervious mountains that have no means to create the weapons necessary for mass death. By pushing Pakistan we run the risk of turning that country into a terrorist country with nukes.
However, way we got to this point Iraq is central to protecting the world. Any withdrawl which allows Alqueda or Iran to set up a terrorist state fueled by petrol dollars will make the original Iraq war look like a picnic.
You don’t think he knows this?
LOL*
the good news is Obama has come off that mandatory service requirement
it is now all voluntary
um. yeah. until he reverses his position.
not like he’s ever done that before, though.
we can’t afford be so quick to trust someone who’s not trustworthy.
He added that stupid thing to counter the “wealth distribution” gaffe that Joe the Plumber so kindly pointed out to all of America. *haha
I just have to be smug here. I pointed out that was one of his dumber “corrections.”
Sure enough, he has backed off.
I think what he’s really talking about is the old idea from the 60s to make it cool to volunteer for the Peace Corps.
That stage of our history practically ruined the Peace Corps. They had straggly hippies running all over the world trying to help people without a clue as to skills needed.
It’s a bit of the “Oprah-think,” I call it.
Whatever….there’s no new ideas under the sun, eh?
Retread thinking. We’ll see if he’s just a typical old-fashioned tax and spend Democrat that the Clintons managed to undo.
The Dems have a rare window of opportunity. They could steal the fiscal responsibility mantle away for GOOD. But not if he moves forward on his very expensive initiatives without shoring up the economy.
We’ll see.
steal, being the way of things.
Ann, bear in mind that Obama’s “very expensive initiatives” are precisely what will “shore up the economy.” It’s called a stimulus plan, it will be in the range of half a trillion dollars, it will include infrastructure rebuilding, clean energy programs, and possibly health care, and it is really the only hope for stimulating the economy enough in 2009 to drag it out of recession.
Sf…
I used to pride myself as an FDR style liberal until I read volumes about what the effects of creating big government and raising taxes in a recession. it’s now a well known fact that the depression was prolonged right up until WW2 as a result of taxation and anti-business policies.
FDR meant well and I’m sure obama has good intentions but this stimulus package could be the death nail for American business
Correct. It was the shift to a war economy that ended the Great Depression, not the New Deal. It was pretty clear by 1938 that FDR’s approach wasn’t working. Unemployment increased from 14% in 1937 to 19% in 1938. With the war underway, FDR understood that the key to sustained postwar prosperity would be what we now call “globalism.” Much of the tension between Roosevelt and Churchill arose from FDR’s unwillingness to take actions that would help prop up the British Empire after the fighting ended. He was determined that the US would stand alone as the world’s dominant economic power.
I’ll hold my breath and hope you’re right.
I am, in fact, in favor of infrastructure projects, etc., provided it’s not given out based on rewards for votes.
LA never gets those perks. We saw what happened.
So I’m in favor, with a great degree of skeptism.
I’m praying he’s actually willing to be a good president.
I swear, this ISN’T rocket science.
He has never advocated a mandatory service requirement. That was simply a willful PUMA misreading of his call for renewed dedication to national service, and one effective way for government to help lower income kids get through college.
Hello, that is bull shit. Yes, he did. And what is worse, it is under his voluntary service tab, yet then it says required, from his own site. check it out, it has not been scrubbed, yet:
Integrate Service into Learning
Expand Service-Learning in Our Nation’s Schools: Obama and Biden will set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year. They will develop national guidelines for service- learning and will give schools better tools both to develop programs and to document student experience. Green Job Corps: Obama and Biden will create an energy-focused youth jobs program to provide disadvantaged youth with service opportunities weatherizing buildings and getting practical experience in fast-growing career fields.
Expand YouthBuild Program: Obama and Biden will expand the YouthBuild program, which gives disadvantaged young people the chance to complete their high school education, learn valuable skills and build affordable housing in their communities. They will grow the program so that 50,000 low-income young people a year a chance to learn construction job skills and complete high school.
Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.
Promote College Serve-Study: Obama and Biden will ensure that at least 25 percent of College Work-Study funds are used to support public service opportunities instead of jobs in dining halls and libraries.
Look for yourself:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/service/
I am an adult weekend college student and I will not be participating in what I can unAmerican policies. That means where I was getting $1200-2000 per year tuition credit, I will now get zero unless I want to be Barfy’s slave 2 hours per week. Let me know how he takes your money away.
Who says he backed off and why would he not back off before the election? That was one of my main reasons I would not vote for him and I won’t support him now until he gives up the bullshit, plus he actually has to accomplish something.
Yeah, he really did. It was his caveat for the tax refund.
It was stupid. Glad he backed off fast.
Ok, from his new site Change.gov:
Integrate Service into Learning
Expand Service-Learning in Our Nation’s Schools: Set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year. Develop national guidelines for service learning and give schools better tools both to develop programs and to document student experience.
Expand Youth Programs: Create an energy-focused youth jobs program to provide disadvantaged youth with service opportunities weatherizing buildings and getting practical experience in fast-growing career fields. Expand the YouthBuild program to give 50,000 disadvantaged young people the chance to complete their high school education, learn valuable skills and build affordable housing in their communities.
Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.
Promote College Serve-Study: Ensure that at least 25 percent of College Work-Study funds are used to support public service opportunities instead of jobs in dining halls and libraries.
Looks word for word the same to me, folks. Token is un American. If he uttered that this changed well, it clearly has not.
All you Obama lovers who believe his words then, go about asking him why the disparity, K?
It’ll be a youth program for inner city kids that no inner city kids actually do, except for the role models, of course.
The fact is that these programs are soft and fluffy and haven’t ever really worked.
Kids growing up in drug homes turn to drugs.
End of story.
We have a devastated poverty level.
And no real way out.
I will say this. If he introduces help for drug addicts in his health plan?
That’s a start forward.
Bush decimated all help.
Gina do you have a link? Thanks.
One other fact: Bush DID use faulty intelligence presented to Congress and a stupid compliant media to sell the Iraq war. He lied.
I have noticed the same thing dcmedia, this is a blog for those who see the fraud and greed that is going on within the democratic party. We KNOW the Republican PArty under Bush/Cheney/Rove was corrupt – and we don’t like what we see in the similarity between this Dem Party and the Bush/Cheney/Rove party. Yeah alot of us voted for McCain/Palin. We TRUSTED him more than we trusted Obama. But we are still moderate liberal or progressive, we are not conservatives. We are, in some cases, without a party. No Quarter fills that void for us. I would hope to see more discussion centered toward how to fix the Demorcratic Party or to branch off with another “moderate/progressive party. This would be something that the Republicans have no interest in. At least that is my hope with NQ.
Palin thinks the earth is 6000 years old and doesn’t believe that man has caused global warming. She wants intelligent design taught as science. No true progressive would ever vote to put someone as dangerous as that anywhere near the White House.
Obviously, you are a derivative thinker. You read what others say she believes as opposed to listening to her actual answers.
*jeesh*
I bet you think you’re well-educated, too, eh?
Missed the class on secondary source material?
And you obviously majored in Stupidity 101. Palin never made on move to have “intelligent design” taught in Alaskan schools. Perhaps you would be well advised to get your information from someone other that Chris Matthews.
You want dangerous? You are going to watch “dangerous” walk into the Oval Office on Jan. 20,2009.
You drank too much of the Kool-aid and believed everything the MSM told you to believe about Sarah Palin. We know no Progressive would vote for her because the far left liberals are now calling themselves the Progressives. So you’re right no far left liberal would vote for her.
Thee far left has been calling itself progressive for over twenty years. Only the conservatives were calling them liberal.
Apparently Bush gave “faulty intelligence” to the former secretary of state, former national security advisor, former commander of eastern and southern forces and former president of the United States. Bush, a man so powerful he could reach back into time and fool his predecessors.
“Saddam’s goal … is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed.” — Madeline Albright, 1998
“(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983″ — National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998
“There’s no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat… Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He’s had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001… He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn’t have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we.” — Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002
“Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade and much of his nation’s wealth not on providing for the Iraqi people but on developing nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them….I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and Democrats, when I say to Saddam Hussein, “You cannot defy the will of the world,” and when I say to him, “You have used weapons of mass destruction before. We are determined to deny you the capacity to use them again.” Bill Clinton 1998
“But if we leave Iraq with chemical and biological weapons, after 12 years of defiance, there is a considerable risk that one day these weapons will fall into the wrong hands and put many more lives at risk than will be lost in overthrowing Saddam.” Bill Clinton 3/18/03
“You know, I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over.”
Clinton went on to claim that Iraq’s chemical and biological weapons were of concern, especially after the September 11 attacks:
“So, you’re sitting there as president, you’re reeling in the aftermath of this, so, yeah, you want to go get bin Laden and do Afghanistan and all that. But you also have to say, well, my first responsibility now is to try everything possible to make sure that this terrorist network and other terrorist networks cannot reach chemical and biological weapons or small amounts of fissile material. I’ve got to do that. That’s why I supported the Iraq thing.”
Clinton added: “So that’s why I thought Bush did the right thing to go back. When you’re the president, and your country has just been through what we had, you want everything to be accounted for.” Bill Clinton Time Magazine 6/28/04
But why take facts into consideration, hatred is so much more accommodating.
vjinFla, if Bush lied us into war, are you saying that everyone of those Democrats who voted “yea” on the Authorization to Use Military Force In Iraq” bill, including Hillary, were so stupid they could be fooled? Because you can’t have it both ways. Either Bush is smart enough to have fooled them all and they are all too stupid to be holding office, or Bush is as dumb as a stump as the far left has been screaming for the last 8 years?
Retire05 Your argument is specious concerning the “stupidity” of those who voted for the authorization. In a matter of this grave consequence, every senator would give the president the benefit of the doubt. You know as well as I do that Bush argued for this authorization claiming that it would strengthen his hand when going before the UN. In that regards you intentionally lied by omission. For example Hillary specifically said on the senate floor that she did not view this as an authorization for going to war. Bush should have come back to the congress and asked for one. He chose to game the system instead. Bush lied and kicked out the inspectors and went to war. In my opinion Saudia Arabia had finally said we had to leave their country. This prematurely forced Bush’s hand and he looked over to Iraq and decided he could kill 2 birds with one stone. Bingo, war with Iraq.
I actually thought NQ was about cutting through all the crap. All the partisanship, all the revisionism, all the derangement and looking at the facts.
Clinton believed Saddam had WMD, Bush did too. They either were both mistaken or they both lied. You can’t have it both ways. They both had access to the same intel.
When filleting Bush for “anti-constitutional” actions and accusing him of destroying the republic through the patriot act, guantanomo bay, etc. you then cant go on a laud a man like FDR when he did things like supreme court packing, detainment camps for US citizens, anti-american activities charges, maintaining a propoganda office, and screening ALL news stories during WWII. If Bush is Hitler for listening in on citizens phone calls and keeping media from filming the caskets of our soldiers what is FDR for putting them in relocation camps and censoring all print and broadcast news?
I am not a Bush apologist or a Clinton antagonist I want us to get to a place where we have civil discourse instead of demonization. I thought for the most part that’s what NQ did.
I believe Bush had more up-to-date intel in 2002 than Clinton.
Come on!
And there were people who were putting up warning signs that Bush tried to silence and humiliate.
I wonder who they might be? I think NQers know a little about that.
I think it’s grossly unfair to say that Clinton and Bush had the same intel.
SCD….
That would be your problem, pal.
That and a serious inability to grasp reality.
You are dead from the neck up.
Bush is a war criminal and so is Cheney.
Nothing about other presidential mistakes is ever going to be on par with that.
Excellent posts to both Media Girl and retire05. Very thought provoking.
Since you haven’t got a clue of mimi’s level of education or “cognitive” ability, I am enjoying the fact that you just made a complete ass of youself by making this stupendously ignorant remark.
I’m still keeping my tinfoil hat on, thank you very much. By this I mean that I won’t give up trying to connect the dots and trying to see the grand picture behind the political theater.
My contention on this site has always been that after losing two humiliating GEs the Left decided to prop up their own version of GWB. Voila! Barack Obama, who IMHO, is the flip side of GWB.
Indeed, that the Dems would choose a “leader” in the mold of GWB — i.e. unqualified, authoritarian, messianic, indeed a figurehead president — is quite telling. The similarities between GWB and BO don’t just rest on the surface level, however. These two puppet figures are buttressed, according to some, by fascist elements (i.e. corporate/state/theological interests) which have a twofold agenda—to destroy this democracy and to plunder the spoils of this great country. (See Tarpley’s OBAMA: THE POSTMODERN COUP — The making of a Manchurian Candidate).
As many believe, the neo-con GWB regime has ushered in an era of fascism in this country (see Naomi Wolf’s YouTube lecture & book, THE END of AMERICA, especially). But instead of restoring our democracy, the Left has decided to continue along this disturbing path.
In the grand scheme of things, what does it matter if the evisceration of the Constitution and the bedrock of our democracy (i.e. free speech and the sacred right to vote) comes from the Right or the Left? What does it matter if the plundering of this country comes from the Dems or the Repubs (corporate bailouts, anyone)? Moreover, what does matter if dissent is muzzled by GWB or BO? The players and Party may be different now, but the results are the same — the demise of our democracy. It’s no secret that the grand aim of fascism — whether from the Left or Right — is the destruction of democracy and the democratic process.
And so, I hope all on this site will keep trying to connect the dots with facts. But above all, these historical times call for thinking critically rather than ideologically.
trixta, I agree 100 percent. It doesn’t matter which Party at this point. If we want to keep our democracy and freedoms intact we should all think critically and connect the dots.
Retire05: You’ve just provided a stellar example of the type of comment I wrote about in my posting. Thanks for playing.
It one thing to post articles here for everyone so that we can learn and think and do even more research to make up our minds. It’s another thing to bait the readers. “Thanks for playing” sounds most unbecoming to me. I am also a Democrat who came here for the real breath of fresh air No Quarter has and continues to offer to all of us. Personally, I think it’s way too early to write the history of GWB’s 8 years in office. For one thing, we have too many wanna be historians who have spent the better part of this year making “demands” of various politicians who were perceived to have anything to do with “the war.” e.g. The oft repeated “demand” for Hillary Clinton to “apologize” for her vote “for the war.” The “slicing and dicing” of Democrats who were either “for change” (pro-Obama) or “against change) (pro-anyone else). The ongoing purge within the Democratic Party. I trust none of these “change makers” to explain/analyze/write history. I’m willing to wait on that. And I have no plans to join a mob calling for the trial and criminal punishment of one GWB and his family and political friends. I’ve read about the French Revolution and it was more the worst of times than the best of times. One item on your list of Bush crimes really stood out to me — “Turning Americans into sheep…” It was exactly my reaction to seeing the response to Obama by his supporters. Please continue to write … but please do not try to use your article to censor your readers or “tag” them to be attacked by other readers unless they follow “the message.”. Let’s not become the very thing we hate. That is, after all, what happened to the DNC and the Congressional Democratic Leadership.
Bush, Cheney and a number of others absolutely should stand trial for war crimes, and for rampant violation of the Constitution. They belong in prison for the rest of their lives. It would be one way to erase the stain their crimes have left on American democracy.
Comparisons of Obama to these people are, to my mind, deeply offensive. DCMediaGirl is RIGHT ON.
sf…You’re for National Suicide!!
Even today Zawahari is threatening Obama and the United States.
If Obama listens and follows Alqueda’s demands and retreats then the terrorists have won.
If America dismantles the shield that Bush created to protect us from the individuals that would destroy western civilization then the democrats will be held totally responsible if anything happens
I guess you don’t know what that means yet do you Sf…
I will give you a clue…When we are hit again because of the complacency and defeatism of the democrat party it will be people like you that will be put on trial.
The mob will turn against those that think like YOU if we are attacked…..Start praying!!
dcmediagirl…Just curious. Why do you think your opinion is the only valid one? Retire05 posted something thoughtful, calm, and respectful albeit a different POV. Why are you insisting that only your opinion is the right one?
Was dcmedia girl respectuful when she says ‘i don’t give a fuck’, and the snarky ‘thanks for playing’ remark?
That’s the kind of expression of disrespect for the reader, regardless of their political outlook, that would prevent me reading that persons articles.
probably because for some people looking at the big picture of reality is just too darn scary, and it’s easier to just think of Obama as a bumbling lightweight leader than as one who has another agenda.
we can’t stick our heads in the sand.
dcmediagirl,
I share many of your opinions, but they are opinions. Reasonable people can disagree whether John Ashcroft was ‘insane.’ The Patriot Act gets into some very iffy constitutional areas, but it’s not a slam dunk that it is unconstitutional. Anyway, only one Senator voted against the Patriot Act. 99 Senators? — it was not some totalitarian act by Bush.
I share your extremely low opinion of Bush. But I can’t object to Retire05 posting a different point of view. And Obama got roughed up in articles on NQ, not just in the comments.
dcmediagirl,
I want to start by saying I chose my moniker when I used to visit TPM and got disgusted by what took place there during the Primary season it is in no way intended to comment on you or what you’ve written. I’m not a prolific poster or comment reader, I tend to visit NQ for the articles, so I can’t really speak to the metaissue you bring up. What I want to address is the the idea of revisionist history for the Bush years.
I recently surprised myself when in one of my insomniatic channel surfing forays, I came across an interview with Condi Rice. What surprised me is that when I listened to her describing the Bush legacy, I was not nearly so disgusted as I have been in the recent past. For better, or for worse, this last election cycle changed me and I suspect that it changed other people as well.
I am not now nor have I ever been someone who would ever be comfortable at Free Republic, I am part of a new thing. For the moment, it appears that NQ fills a niche that I hope Larry can capitalize on (whatever his target capital may be…money, prestige, influence). He and the headliners here have provided a shining beacon for those of us who now look critically on a political party that betrayed us.
I don’t think that Republicans could have produced a group quite like us. I don’t think that the folks who supported McCain vs. Bush in 2000 were changed in quite the same way that those of us who supported Hillary vs. Obama this election cycle were changed. They very well may have been, but I haven’t come across them or their work. It remains to be seen what will become of us and our collective voices as well.
I see so many similarities between how Bush II was forced on us and how Obama came to the office, that my biggest hope right now is that at the end of it, I can look at Obama’s presidency in the way that Condi Rice described the Bush presidency.
So, anyway, since this is a comment and not an article, I’ll leave in the rambling quality. I guess I just wanted to spotlight that some of us in the audience here who are not Freepers or Republicans see the world differently than we did last year and, for me, that includes what went on in the Oval office during the reign of Bush II. I still want him to be held accountable, but I think that the World courts are the best venue for accomplishing that. There’s a reason why Presidential pardons were put into the constitution, even if I don’t always agree with how they’re meted out.
Well said.
thank you, very well said :0)
Thank-you Whatever for your comment.
I too was shoved through the looking glass by the Dem party and have been profoundly and sadly changed by this election. I agree we are part of a new thing, something I hope to be a part of for the good of this country.
more later…we need ideas about where to go from here.
I feel and think exactly the same way as retire05, trixta, Mandelay and Whatever.
Excellent POV’s. All of us are desperate for a safe, fair place to comment. The Internet is like the Wild West of olden days. It takes a lot of intestinal fortitude to speak up and stay true to ones convictions in these kinds of environments.
Keep fighting the good fight one and all. Be respectful of each others POV’s. Keep your eyes and ears OPEN. Think, think, think. Don’t be fooled by the MSM any longer. Verify, verify, verify.
I think open communications is great.
But if you expect everyone to buy into your comments about Obama being the new Hitler, then you probably should seek out a skin-head site.
That stuff is offensive.
Whatever I agree with you. We have been changed I’m more concerned about what this new administration will do now.
It was wrong in Iraq. But my energy is not on that at this point . It’s almost too late and I don’t trust the ones in office (Congress ) to do it right.
dcmedia girl, hmm you just wrote the type of post that you were condeminging in your diary. excuse me if i don’t take you seriously. furthermore, if i want a sermon, i know how to get to church. sure there needs to be common sense in the posts, i’ll agree with that. but frankly, venting is done here and in this politically correct world of how dare i say the wrong word, it is a breath of fresh air. so i’ll ignore you and wish you well.
retire05:
I cringed at the sight of Elian Gonzales being wrenched away from his relatives in the U.S., butI don’t see what legal choice was left to Janet Reno. Take “evil” Cuba out of the mix, so that the facts may be examined more dispationately, Elian’s mother died, but his father was still alive, and made his wishes clear. The relatives in the U.S., despite their good intentions, were not in the same legal position as was the boy’s father. Assume for a moment that a couple in Italy separated and the wife ran off to the U.S. with their child, without any sort of court order allowing the child to be removed from Italy. If the father finds the kid in the U.S., and wants the child returned to Italy, he would have a strong legal case. If the mother died after bringing the child to the U.S., the father would have a great legal position, unless it could be established that he was a bad or dangerous parent. Elian’s relatives tried to paint the father as evil and dangerous, but the best they could do in court was to prove that Castro was evil, and that wasn’t good enough. It was the family in the U.S. that should be the subject of your scorn, since they refused to voluntarily surrender the child, dared the Justice Department to enforce the orders of the Court, and were willing to risk just such a distasteful display of force in an effort to secure favorable public opinion. It appears that they were successful in that effort, judging by your opinion. If Elian were an adult, he would have been given a green card if he wanted to stay here, but he was not of an age where he could make that decision. I guess that there are some “illegal aliens” that you would like to see permitted to stay in the U.S.
Retire05: The blame for Elian being seized in the wee hours of the morning lies squarely with his (very distant) relatives and the lunatic Miami Cubans who made him into a living saint. Their cynical exploitation of a 6 year old child for political and financial ends was reprehensible.
dcmediagirl, you can try to change the facts of the “wet foot, dry foot” policy as applied to Cuban refugees, you can ignore there was a standing federal court order, and you can lay the blame on the Cuban refugees of Florida. None of that is fact, but simply your way of trying to do what mimi has accused me of, rewriting history. You can even excuse Reno ordering federal agents busting into a private home with weapons drawn without a warrent to basically kidnapp a child covered under a court order.
But I am not surprised at your stance. You, above all, have been trying to rewrite history with every post you enter.
Rob, perhaps you should research the “wet foot, dry foot” policy that was put into place long ago when it came to Cubans. Using Italy as an argment is a straw man argument. I think you will find that nowhere in that policy was an age requirement. I think if you do a little research, you will also learn that Janet Reno violated a standing federal court order.
Just a suggestion.
And no, I don’t agree with letting illegal aliens stay, but you can bet that under Obama “rule” they will all be given amnesty.
Retire05: Please check your facts. Elian was picked up at sea and was therefore squarely in the “wet foot” category. Cubans who are picked up in their dinghys by the Coast Guard are sent back all the time. And as far as immigration policy is concerned, the preferential treatment given to Cubans ought to be the first thing to go.
So I guess leaving them to drown is what you are advocating? I don’t know. Sounds a little harsh.
dcmediagirl, how many of the Marial boatlift refugees were required to return to Cuba? The fact is that Bill Clinton caved in 1995 to pressure from Cuba. Until then, boat people were given safe haven at GITMO or allowed to enter the U.S.
But I guess you have no problem with federal agents entering a private home with weapons drawn. That should make the policies of Obama go down a lot smoother for you.
The Marial boatlift happened under Carter.
retire05:
While there is no age requirement, staying in the U.S. is not mandatory either. No eleven year old can apply for permanent residency on their own. At a minimum, there must be a court appointed guardian to execute the documentation. In this case, Elian’s father decided that he wanted Elian to return to Cuba. A warrant was not needed when executing a Federal Court Order for Elian’s removal, as that order was the “warrant”. I’ve practiced immigration law exclusively for more than 30 years, so I’m quite familiar with the politically inspired “wet foot — dry foot” provisions.
Rob G, while this conversation has been hijacked, I will address what you posted:
Fact: On April 19, 2000, a judge in the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals ordered that Elian Gonzales must stay in the U.S. until an asylum hearing could be held in May.
Fact: On April 22, 2000, in violation of that court order, Federal border patrol agents, ordered by Janet Reno, entered the home of Elian’s relatives and took him by force.
This was not only an asylum issue, it was also an issue of guardianship.
Are you telling me that anytime a woman leaves the state, in violation of a custody court order (there was no standing custordy order on Elian in Cuba prior to his mother’s flight from Cuba) that the federal government has the right to enter that woman’s home, remove the child at gun point and give that child back to the father? Is that your argument?
Because that is exactly what happened.
I’m glad you straightened that out, I agree completely with you. Next we should debate the travesty in Waco. Ruby ridge after that.
Sorry, but I’m for leaving the immigration aspect out of this, and focus entirely on a parent’s right to have his child. The father was not an abusive father, or neglectful, and as a parent, I would go to the ends of the earth to claim my child. He had every legal and moral right to have custody of his own son. Janet Reno took a hard stand, and she enforced the law. That was her job. You can’t be the Attorney General of this country and look the other way when the law becomes inconvenient, and she wasn’t there to win a popularity contest, she was there to enforce this country’s law. I respect the hell out of that woman. This was a tragedy either way you look at it, but in the end, this boy had a right to be raised by his own father, and that father had a right to his son.
jdona, do you disagree that Reno violated a 11th Circuit Court order that the child be kept in the country until the asylum hearing?
Do you agree that the federal government has the right to remove a child from a home at the point of a gun if that child is the product of a custody case even if that child is not in eminent danger? So let me see if I understand you; if a woman removes her child from a state that holds jurisdiction and the father wants that child back you think the goverment has the right to remove that child from the parent by force at the point of a gun?
The boy’s mother was DEAD!
DEAD!
DEAD!
Those relatives did not have rights. We’re not even talking a maternal grandmother or grandfather.
It scares me that I live in the same country as you 05.
jdona’s comments were spot on. This was a moral issue. And the law was rightfully enforced
Rob G,
At least someone here knows what they are talking about.
We have a trillion dollar deficit, 4,201 troops dead, countless Iraqis, an economy in the toilet and these guys are talking about Elian Gonzalez.
Just because the majority of people elected a black man doesn’t mean people have to go completely batshit. We will survive this if we survived Bush.
Try to show some sense of being able to priortize the important issues.
Elian Gonzalez is not one of them.
But for the sake of argument, I’d let Janet Reno take a dozen Elians the same way, over an illegal war that caused the deaths of 4,201 troops.
Rob G,
There’s a case like that going on now in Brazil. A man’s Brazilian wife went home under the guise of a vacation, never came back, divorced him, remarried, got pregnant and died in childbirth. The new husband won’t return the child to his natural father. Brazil won’t return the child. He can’t even see him.
What are we discussing here? This is about the rights of parents. Not politics.
Elian was exploited by Cuban Americans with their own personal agenda and vendetta with Castro. They are entitled to their political point of view. They are not entitled to keep a small child from his father just because his father lives in Cuba. Cuba is not the Sudan. It wasn’t war torn Bosnia.
You think if Elian had remained here, a teenage kid today, that he wouldn’t be longing to see his father and resentful for being kept from him? If he’s resentful in Cuba now, that’s between him and his father, which is how it should be.
I can’t believe that anyone with common sense is bringing this up as a huge blight on the Clinton presidency.
Elian’s father wanted him back. The child was practically a baby. If he’d been at least 10 years old, I might feel differently. Elian certainly was in no capacity to make his own decision or be consulted.
CASE CLOSED!
I’m no fan of Castro, but parental rights trump political ideology. He wasn’t being returned to a country where his physical well-being was in jeopardy. He’s alive today. And Castro will be history before Elian has a grey hair on his head.
Why do people want to keep children that don’t belong to them away from a natural parent who wants them. How do they intend to validate that when the child comes of age and realizes how they were deprived of the most primal relationship of blood.
Politics be damned!
Some things just ain’t right.
Retire05 – Great post.
I’m one of those traditional Democrats who was unhappy with Dean, Pelosi, Reid, et al, and I’m still here. The NQ Blog is the only blog where I feel comfortable in posting my thoughts and comments. I’m not leaving.
Although, I will confess that the for awhile, I too was turned off by some of the shrill and obnoxious posts there were appearing on this blog and I stayed away for a couple of nights. But, I’m back to stay now.
Retire 05
Bush did not just make mistakes. He made colossal errors in judgment and purposely misled his own people in supporting a cruel civil war that has resulted in 4 MILLION HOMELESS IRAQIS, HALF OF THEM WOMEN WHO ARE TURNING TO PROSTITUTION IN RECORD NUMBERS IN NEIGHBORING ARAB COUNTRIES.
BUSH SHOULD HVAE BEEN IMPEACHED BY THE INCOMPETENT, TRAITOROUS UnDEMOCRATIC PARTY HENCHMEN DEAN, REID AND PELOSI.
Let’s keep our watch on Obama and not let him fool us into bringing Sharia Law, as he had campaigned for his islamist biliionaire slumlord cousin Odinga In Kenya.
Obama is slightly more reassuring than Dubbya, but certainly does not inspire me.
Hillary was pragmatic and had vision and diplomatic competence–qualities that neither BUSH Jr. nor Bush III (BHO) appear to have nor desire.
I say let’s confiscate Bush Family’s holdings in Haliburton and all their Arab-friendly corporations world-wide. They made billions by starting wars. Let’s allow Obama Jr some equal opportunity here!
OH PLEASE, RETIRE NOW!
Don’t sell us this balloney of coming here to protect Bush’s legacy.
Dubbya destroyed his own country and other innocent countries who never asked to be saved by his murderous regime—that’s what it is!
BUSH SHOULD HAVE BEEN IMPEACHED AND HIS BANK HODINGS CONFISCATED IN ALL OF HIS ARAB-FRIENDLY BANK ACCOUNTS THAT MADE HIM MILLIONS. 200,000 WOMEN ARE HOMELESS AND ARE TURNING TO PROSTITUTION IN NEIBORING COUNTRIES!
Now, please wait and retire only after’ you’ve given poor Hussein a chance of Equal Opportunity!
RETIRE 05 you don’t expect us to believe that you are anyting but a Bush clone….
imagine your nerve to support a Hitler-like figure like George W. Bush. Shivers. Clinton did NOT start a bloody STUPID war on a country and used lies from his top intelligence to attack. bush is the creepiest most sexist and stupid presidnet ever. now go away you got the wrong blog and don’t pretent you’re a democrat ever…write a book on Praising Bushies and show pics of all people he’s murdered and exucuted
If you didn`t like Bush and company just wait until Ali-bama and his forty thieves get done ruining the country.
Yes, we are just warning people not to be so naive.
I am also warning against this Clinton love fest, too. She played politics over country. That said alot.
uh, sure.
Hillary couldn’t hold a candle to obama and axelrod, when it came to playing politics over country.
Where have you been these past two years that you missed the selling of the new “messiah” throughout the primary and the GE by the MSM and the DNC?
If a black woman with the exact same credentials, charisma, oratory skills as obama had run on such a skimpy record, you and the rest of the country would have laughed out loud and then would have attacked HER without mercy for even considering running on such a non-existent record of achievement, experience and qualifications.
The blatant double-standard which still exists between men and women is the primary reason our country is going down the tubes right now!
except Miss McKinney DID IN FACT RUN
and got zero attention
so you are right
What happened to all the Independents on the ballot this year? There was such a love fest of Obama and a hate fest of Hillary and Sarah I didn’t even get to hear any of their thoughts or ideas, unless I sought them out. I didn’t see any debates. Did they even have any?
nawp
not that I saw
i made this point many times, to no avail, during the primary. of course geraldine ferraro was exactly correct when she said that if Ozero was a white male he would not be the nominee, and if he were a woman of any color he would not be the nominee. i don’t think that there is an honest person in the united states that can deny this. and of course, for her honesty, ferarro was asked to step down from her position with hillary’s campaign (whatever it was, i don’t remember).
totally disagree
she is a pragmatist always has been
she does what it takes to get the actual hard work done, always has
csuzeck
Come on and wake up from your BUSHOBAMA stupor!
Hillary can dance circles around your Bush-Obama statues of incompetence and stupidity!
Wake up!
Since when did the media ever hold a “Clinton love fest” Where have you been? Are you on something we don’t know?
The goddam misogynists made sure that Sen. Clinton lsot out to this moron who’s nothing but BUSH THIRD TERM!
harp
Your Dubbya has done fine wrecking countries millions miles away to satisfy his bank account’s greed and his egotistical insecure personality. Hitler was very much the same!
Question is why didn’t the exDemocratic Party hold Bushie junior responsible and IMPEACH the lying, incompetent war criminal?
Obama, on the other hand, doesn’t inspire me either. But don’t hold your breath wsaiting for him to become a Commie under your retirement bed! He’s just another skinny-resume politico and a deeply sexist one at that.
Hillary was the one with pragmatic Vision. Her campaign was vilified by the Republican extreme right-wing nutters AND the Obama Thugs!
Now go donate to the poor Iraqi women who are aimlessly wondering, crippled and ailing, in Jordan and Syria working as “entertainment girls” to support their families. You are responsible for their fate, so do something about it instead of protecting the murderous legacy of the moron who has yet to be IMPEACHED.
SHAME ON BUSH
SHAME ON OBAMA
Bush’s policies definitely need to be turned around. Here’s the challenge. He expanded the executive powers. I posted this last week. I’ve YET to see a single president in my entire life who willingly gave UP power.
It’s just not even in the nature of our system! Will Congress be strong enough to challenge Barack on this? Will Barack protect the powers Bush carved out, convincing himself (as they all do) that he’ll use it for the good of the people?
*whew*
I agree with you that we need to focus on the problems. I’m very concerned that he tore apart key governmental agencies to the point they were ineffectual in serving the country. Rebuilding any program isn’t easy. How we do this while bankrupt? I don’t know.
As for your other points, I couldn’t agree more wholeheartedly.
I’m a bit tired of having the entire blog defined by a few angry voices.
Time to open up and let the air in! Great article. Thanks!
I have been on election hiatus, I needed to withdraw for a while and refocus. I think a lot of posters may be like me and taking a break.
I did that last week. Yep.
Me too. Burned out.
Yeah..me too.
But I’m feeling stronger now.Can’t give up the fight to save our country. We need us!
I have been suffering from EECOVS–Eternal Election Coverage Overload Syndrome, ergo, I took some time off to recover from 20 months of election assaults.
dcmediagirl- what’s your point?
SOO, can we not question BO anymore and do you really know who he is?
We should have all questioned George W Bush like we need to do with BO….
So far, BO is looking like George Bush’s 3rd term and frankly dcmediagirl, we have the right to vet him since this has yet to be done.
Sorry, I’m not on the koolaid.
If you’re going to vet then do so. But flinging around rumor, hearsay, inflammatory accusations and writing statements that are not based in fact is not “vetting”. It’s what was done to Hillary Clinton by Fox, Kos, Americablog, Air America and various and sundry other outlets. I’ve been very clear in my past postings about my rage at the media, the DNC, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, Donna Brazile and others for the way they behaved during this election cycle. I’ve also written about my concern that the country was about to elect a man who had not been properly vetted. So I have nothing to apologize for. If uou interpret my request that posters behave reasonably and responsibly is your version of “drinking the Kool-Aid” then good luck to you.
I agree with respect to your objection about the bigoted statements. There should be no anti-Muslim statements and the like. However, I don’t see anything wrong with comparing him to leaders such as Hitler or Castro. The hero worship, the focus on his charismatic speeches, the filling of stadiums with people to worship him, the unprecedented level of propaganda, the unprecedented emphasis on getting children and young people involved (in a creepy way) are all reminiscent of those leaders’ tactics. Although, I don’t believe Obama was ever a true leftist and have told my friends from the start that he is going to be a third Bush, he has purposefully tried to appeal to the left and has used many of the same tactics those socialist and communist leaders used in order to rise to power. Moreover, the mass hysteria and mob mentality of the people supporting him are also very reminiscent of those leaders. I don’t think that he will use any more force or coercion than Bush has, but nonetheless our freedoms will be infringed under the guise of a great charismatic leader who is here to liberate us.
Well, guilt by association stuff really isn’t very rational in the long run. The problem with the comparisons to Hitler are obvious. He’s not rousing the crowds so he can drive good people into camps and exterminate them, for heaven’s sakes. That is what makes those comparisons ridiculous and hysterical.
Castro? *blink* I hardly think that pushing Headstart is the road to communism.
We’ll see. He’s now elected. I’ve said, and gotten flack for saying it, that he’s going to govern from the center. He has no desire to not be reelected, for one. Two, I don’t think the guy is really all that radical.
I think he’s going to break those little hearts over there at HuffPo a lot.
And I don’t agree with either right-or-left wing dogma. Change needs to happen, yes. Radical change doesn’t work.
While these comparisions may be extreme,I wouldn’t characterize them as “ridiculous” or “hysterical”. Often the same content is repeated – socially, politically, psychologically – albeit in different form.
In my personal experience, dialogue with persons who have survived oppressive/brutal regimes (including holocuast survivors) has helped me to “tune in” to some of our current social and political trends that we all need to be aware and wary of. On a more subtle level, I believe we need to be vigilent about the divisive and destructive potential of pathological narcissism, within the socio-political context of a close alliance between government and big business.
I’ve always asserted that Obama is neither radical or progressive; he is simply an opportunist and a political sociopath who offers a blank slate for the electorate to project onto. Of greater concern is his too-quick rise to power and his capacity to tolerate the demands and realities of the presidency.
tarma,
I whole heartedly agree with your comments.
tarma–Well said. ITA.
I don’t agree. Hitler wasn’t driving people into concentration camps in the beginning. That evolved from the part the German people played starting with their adoration of his charisma. What’s the point of knowing history if you’re not going to recognize the signs, apply them and learn from them?
Having witnessed first-hand cult-like hysteria and what it can lead to, I think it’s important to ground people.
No one is saying he is Hitler. He’s not. But I think it’s a good idea to always point out where unrestrained adoration of a political leader can lead to.
As long as such analogies are made within that kind of historical context, I have no problem with that because I’m uncomfortable with the throngs of people attempting to deify this politician.
It was demonstrated on a previous post exactly how little voters know. It’s possible a lot of people do not know anything about Hitler other than concentration camps. Or that Castro did in fact present himself in a slightly different light to the people at first.
I don’t agree with mindless name-calling and I detest ethnic epithets. The reality is that it’s not effective in the long run anyway, so why use that approach? It won’t achieve the result you want in the end.
You are spot on. Obama’s remarks about establishing a “Civilian National Security Force that is as powerful and well-funded as the military” chilled me to the bone, but that comment has been completely ignored by the MSM. Frankly, I am astonished that more people didn’t raise more than an eyebrow at it.
I have a lot of questions: What would the CNSF do that is not already covered by a combination of local law enforcement, the Naional Guard, CIA, FBI and the Army, Navy and Marines?
It sounds expensive. Where is Obama going to get the money to pay for it? If Obama believes the existing security entities are falling short, why burn $$$$ to build a completely new security infrastructure (that we have no idea will succeed) rather than invest in improving the existing infrastructures that I listed above?
How will they staff the CNSF? What are the minimum qualifications? What kind of training will they get. What will the charter of the CNSF troops be? What will they be doing and how much power will they have over the rest of the country? Will they carry weapons?
The idea of the CNSF scares the daylights out of me. Contrary to what Obama said, there is no need for a CNSF. There is nothing a CNSF can bring to the security table that can’t be addressed by fixing the existing security forces. A CNSF will cost too much money and opens the door for much abuse of our rights as citizens.
Comparisons with the way Hitler came to power are not the same as comparisons with what Hitler did once he had it. It is entirely legitimate to voice concerns about the creation of a cult of personality and the use of electoral fraud and sophisticated propaganda techniques to promote it. We owe it to ourselves and our children, and also to the memory of those who suffered and died because other people in another time thought such concerns “ridiculous” and “hysterical.”
I want to add that my feelings for 0bama remain unchanged.
However, the election is a done deal. I have accepted that. I worked my butt off like everyone here trying diseminate info before Nov 4, but he won.
It’s not going to be turned around. At least, not before Inauguration Day. He’s going to be given the opportunity to govern. Like it or not, I’ve accepted that. Any kind of turnaround at this point would be so disastrous to the country and to our image abroad, that it would catapault the US into immediate doom.
I’ve accepted that reality and the fact that most people don’t feel as I do about this man and that even those who didn’t vote for him are willing to give him a chance.
Also, a little reminder: 10 million Republicans stayed home. Think they played no part in getting 0bama elected? The Repubs do not want the WH right now. Another little fact that I’ve had to accept.
We never concretely proved anything with regard to 0bama. If we had, McCain would be POTUS. So all of this name-calling without evidence to back it up is superfluous at this point.
But it’s more than that. You are playing into his hands. The more people act like whacky 0bama haters, the more the kool-aid crowd is going to circle the wagons around 0bama and that will give him the power to act with impugnity.
I, for one, am not going to make that mistake. I’m going to let him govern and then watch his every move.
As far as Hillary bashing is concerned, I’m a little tired of it, too. What it speaks to is the naive, if not irrational need of people to canonize their politicians instead realizing that politics is a high-powered, money-fueled business. We NEVER proved anything about 0bama to warrant these ad nauseum comments about Hillary putting herself before country.
If we had proved such, I doubt seriously that 10 million Republicans would have stayed home. I also think a lot of Democrats would have voted for McCain like I did.
So face facts and grow up.
The election is over until 2011. In the meantime, I’ve learned to hold my elected officials to the fire.
And I’m going to watch 0bama’s EVERY MOVE!
mimi:
these are very wise words indeed !!!!
Thank you.
Once McCain went for the
bailoutcorporate payoff and the accompanying nationalization of lenders… much of the life was sucked from the right. Many felt there was nothing more to fight for as we were on the path to socialism no matter who won. Strange as it sounds… Obama may govern as much to the right than McCain would have felt that he could get away with… given the democratic socialist congress. McCain would have sought unity of the parties, whereas Obama will want everybody to love him.totally agree!!!
Exactamundo, JJR!
If some speculate or dig for the truth, then it is due in great part to Obama’s secretive and ambiguous demeanor and past. He is the slipperiest candidate this country has ever seen, IMO, and is just as dangerous as GWB. But whereas Bush grounded his world view in stark Manichean terms, Obama grounds his in the gray areas, never really committing himself to one side or the other, but always ready to exploit politically the confusion that ensues. The aim for both BO and GWB, however, is the same — a grab for power and for the material spoils, as it were, the latter of which are used to reward his corporate and political cronies.
How much more politics of shock, awe, and chaos can we endure as a country?
Surely, we haven’t forgotten how BO gamed the primary election, how he disregarded campaign finance laws to stuff his GE coffers with questionable donors? Surely, we haven’t forgotten his race-baiting and misogyny used as political tactics to quash dissent? Then there is the question about is constitutional eligibility . . . .
Many waited too long to question GWB and his war. Many want to “move on” from the stealing of the GE elections of 2000 and 2004, from the horrors of 9/11 — which BTW HAPPENED UNDER GWB’s WATCH!
Sorry, but I, for one, am just a little too pissed off to let another slimy politician off the hook. The time for mincing words and polite niceties is long passed. We need to stand up for ourselves as a country and for this democracy.
i ABSOLUTELY disagree with the “no anti-muslim statements” absurdity. here is the thing: respect is a two-way street. tolerance and respect are for those who are tolerant ant respectful.
who do muslims tolerate? (btw, i’m not talking about the tiny minority of muslims living in america or other western countries, who have adopted western values. i am talking about the vast, vast majority who live in muslim countries). sorry, but i think that i will reserve my right to criticise people who would cut my head off in the town square and treat me as sub-human if they got the chance.
The above list of crimes the Shrub has committed is fact except for:
Turning Americans into sheep, too scared and frightened by orange alerts and other “threats” (which tended to crop up when bad news was about to hit, or when elections were imminent. A coincidence I’m sure).
That’s a general opinion and not a verifiable fact. Actually, it borders on hyperbole. What were they afraid of and prevented from doing? Are you referring to a specific region or talking about, the entire country? Many Americans were living high off the hog over the last eight years, using their houses as ATMs, buying coats for dogs and spending $80 a week at Starbucks. I would hardly call that “afraid.”
I personally believe most people have always been sheep regardless of who is president. Just saying.
The biggest problem with what we are seeing is the complicity of good people to over look what they know to be wrong. This is 4 more years of 8 years and the media is the band playing on.
Bush is gone. 0bama is elected. See? That’s the issue. We watched huff become a spewing lava of hatred that then turned itself on to HRC. Funny how so many of the folks he’s tapping come straight from the Clinton handbook, isn’t it? I find it absolutely amazing how quiet the trolls have become except to raise their heads with meaningless questions about the whitey tape. They have nothing else to say. If he was the best thing since sliced bread, why aren’t we hearing about his wonderful transition? About Rahm and the rest of the appointments? Nope. I have no issues with holding this crook to the same standards that I held the last crook to. America gets the leaders that she allows to be sold to her.
Very true.
It took a long time and a lot of hatred directed towards us to come to our opinions about Obama and his supporters.
And while we may sometimes be given to exaggeration in response to trolls, and excepting the occasional fly-by-night nutjob, most things said are an extension of what we have learned and experienced.
Now whether they’re constructive or not at this point is a reasonable question. There’s no doubt that the conversation would be at a higher level without the trolls, evidenced by the insightful, intelligent, and thoughtful comments I’ve read re this post.
But reasonable discussion would hinge on reasonable and rational thought processes, and I have seen precious little of that from most of his followers, including the media.
I know one thing for certain. We can’t ignore or forget what has happened this election cycle. We were forced to after 9/11 and look what that brought us.
We certainly can now be more constructive in our opposition and I’m open to all suggestions on how to accomplish that.
A journalist finally committed to doing their job? Where were you all one month ago?
Meanwhile purported “insults” of Obama will continue to be flung around since the public doesn’t know anything but heresay about the plastic jesus.
Is Jesus still an okay comparison?
Maybe we need a dcmediagirl approved list of what is okay to say and what isn’t?
Barky? Up or down?
0mama ? Up or down?
Just a thought?
not just here I am afraid. the thoughtful have disappeared, as I did after the election, to process what had happened and to alternate as I have been between denial and despair. I have many worries about an Obama administration. that he is a Marxist, or a Muslim Manchurian Candidate, is not one of them.
my fear is that he will be more like Bush than FDR.
but, whatever. he is the president and hysterics wont change that. since the election he has done things that are both disturbing and encouraging.
for my part, I am willing to keep an open mind.
captain howdy, hi! i haven’t seen you since talk left. (hellothere)
back atcha
I have been watching the internets mostly from afar.
You might as well bend over too, while you’re “keeping and open mind.” Just saying . . . .
I’m not a Bush fan, but Odrama makes him look good. I am just dreading the new Worst POTUS in history.
America just elected the scariest person in the world (Hey, maybe Olbermann coulg get in on that) and think he is going to change things in a positive way.
The dumbing down of America, complete…mission accomplished.
are we to read into this article that No Quarter is going to join the Barackula lovefest now?
I may be negative and anry, but some of us have to stay away from the kool aid and actually try to hold this guy accountable. Can you please do that No Quarter? Who else will?
I’ll be able to admit if he does something good. Clinton SOS to me will be good for country, maybe not for her, but she chose that back in May. But let us not forget that this guy is creepy and someone must remain on guard.
I doubt dcmediagirl speaks for all of NO QUARTER
it’s her opinion and I some what agree but also agree with you that I am allergic to the KOOLAID (from MOST).
I did get on the Sarah koolaid wagon for a bit! It was a REAL RIDE THOUGH!
That’s why my screenname is Idiocracy…did you see that movie? Hilarious!!!!
Everyone should watch that movie. It is amazing!
Bringing change to Washington…….yeah right.
Soaring costs for inauguration could break the bank for D.C.
Soaring costs expected to accompany huge crowds in town for the Jan. 20 inauguration of Barack Obama could stick cash-strapped Washington, D.C., with a record-breaking bill for services.
http://www.dcexaminer.com/local/Soaring_costs_for_inauguration_could_break_the_bank_for_DC11-18.html
If Obama really wants to bring about change he can start by not spending a zillion dollars on his inauguration, or anything else for that matter.
I would applaud him for that. Of course there’s no way in hell that would happen.
correct; obama’s personal behavior doesn’t give me confidence that he can be trusted to run america.
I agree that a lot of comments go way over the top, especially for those of us who still believe in the core principles of the democratic platform and are just furious that misogyny, sexism and cultish behavior gave us Obama instead of Hillary. I think there is a lot that Obama can do right and will do right (hopefully) and I would just like a place to evaluate what happens without having to slosh through people comparing him to JFK and Lincoln before he’s accomplished ONE THING!!!!!!!!! I also like to be in a place where the Clintons are regularly being used as punching bags (have you been watch fox, the hillary hate is back on now that she supports Obama)
It would also be fun to stay around in a community of people who will together enjoy watching the crazy left wing side of the Dem party’s heads explode as Obama shifts to center on many, many issues.
…And that a vote for 0bama enabled all that behavior, as well as voter fraud on a scale not seen since, well – ever- starting with the Dem primaries.
…And that a vote for 0bama validated the MSM’s role as premier propaganda outlet for 0bamacrats and associates.
(I don’t know how to define over-the-top comments outside of the obvious: direct attacks on other posters, threatening language, etc. )
I do believe that a fair number of posters who are still coming here to comment are justifiably outraged by the aforementioned offenses and giving expression to their utter disbelief that disregard for established rules and procedures has been rewarded by 0’s election to POTUS.
Amen brothersister. Truer words have not been seen in a long, long time. And sad to say, since he is a giant media screen, we may never know what is his decision or decisions reached by committee by that hoard of “advisors.” Sham man.
I personally tired of the Clintons being used as punching bags.
Did Clinton take us into an illegal war, raise the deficit to trillions, cause 4,201 and counting troop casualties?
NO!
Enough.
Let 0bama govern! And let’s see what happens.
It’s time for Bush/Cheney to be used as punching bags.
Why aren’t they? What’s up with that????
That decision belongs to the Clintons, nobody else.
Really?
I thought it was President 0bama not President Hillary Rodham Clinton.
agree, I made a little place to yak my thoughts out loud called moderate in the middle in fact
not for comments really just to think out loud, a lot of people are not ready or willing to look beyond the primary still and the election also,
I understand I really do, but I want UHC, I want HRC as sos, I want the country to be safe,
and I DONT want a repeat of what happened when Big Dawg got in and angry OLD GUARD Dems blocked every meaningful step he tried to take blocked healthcare and then allowed a newt revolution and blamed it on hill and bill
I am trying to learn form that and have an open (but wiser) mind
no i dont forget what he did to get here
or what the party did either
i am always aware of it
but i cant live in the past, i want to try to have an impact on what he is doing now
like cabinet appts
when ‘trial balloons’ went up for hrc as sos and even OUR PUMA sites attacked it , same as our ole opponent KOS did, it doesnt IMPROVE her chances
in this case I think it was a done deal already (HRC IMHO already has it), but if that pattern is repeated for other real trial balloons, then it is damaging our real causes imho
here is the blog if anyone is interested:
http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/
I hope I don’t offend the author by agreeing with her, but… Bush comes from the occult, probably Illuminist tradition of Skull and Bones. Strike one. He grew government instead of reducing it and turned a surplus into a huge deficit. Strike two. He initiated an undeclared preemptive war and disastrous occupation of Iraq– strike three.
He’s out– and he should be.
Actually the Hillary hate is mostly coming from MSNBC.
What gives me an anxious pause is the fact that most Republicans are saying that Hillary is great pic for sos. Huh?? What are they up to – lol!
They either want her out of the Senate or to be kept a close eye on. Or both.
Poetic justice: Fill her senate seat with Bill Clinton!!!
I really don’t think so. He’s taking a lot of flack for this decision, and it’s a smart one.
Now, that gives me pause. He’s got a wild, wild West type bunch who think they are in charge; i.e., Moveon.org types.
They are noisy critters. If every smart choice is met by their outcry, it’s going to be a long four years!
I really don’t believe he’s taking any flack. Everyone is saying it’s a smart decision…even Henry Kissenger.
I’ve only heard some people on Fox hate it, because they are back to voicing their hatred for the Clintons again…like I knew they would.
You kidding? Read the editorials today. On HuffPo….the news generated 15,000 comments the first day alone. Trust me, no positives.
Those nitwits actually want Richardson.
No, there’s all kinds of “flack” flying.
One interesting point, a top “aide????” is quoted as saying, “He’s the only one not the least bit unsure. He offered her the job. Period.”
LOL*
Smart guy….I’m truly hoping I underestimated him.
I guess I’ve been listening to a different Fox Network, because I haven’t heard any Hillary or Bill bashing on Fox.
they are scared SPITLESS of Obama apptng a hard lefty, they have LOVED HRC position on Iran since that ABC debate
she was quite clear about her support for Israel
they dont want Chuck Hagel or Susan Rice or ANY of his advisers
Thank You again DCmediagirl. It is unbefrigginlievable that there are still people out there willing to defend the Bushy. I just scroll through their rants. It’s like the last eight years never happened. And now we will have a Bush Redux Presidency under Barky. When will the pain stop? The entire country on both sides seems to be attracted to the mediocre. What else can explain Bush, Barky and Dancing with the Stars?
roflmao @ dancing with the stars
lolololololololol haaaaaaaaaaaaa!
purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrfect Miss Berry of the Straw!!
Good one, Straw! I have been saying all along that Bush and Obama are strikingly similar. I have been rabidly anti-Bush ever since the SCOTUS gave him the presidency. But rather than be less vigilant against such a coup again, Americans have seemingly become LESS vigilant, electing someone far less experienced even than Bush (WHO thought that was possible?!?!), based on nothing but “words.” Just staggering.
By all means, we need to work to restore our country to respecting its people, and the US Constitution, but Obama is not the one to do that. His vote for FISA, and calling the Con. a flawed document, along with the rampant voter fraud, are evidence enough that HE will not be the one to restore our “moral stature.”
That’s what scares me Amy. Is it possible to ever go back once certain lines have been crossed? Who will have the power and fortitude to push back and truly fix the problems we have when as a nation we elect the likes of Bush and Barky?
Something touched on here but needing more attention during the Obama…rule?…reign?…however his minions are describing his “coming to power” these days is the dumbing down of America. Certainly, Obama is not the beginning of that horrid strategy – it started in the seventies, or earlier – but signs are that Obamakins plan to amp up the process until a 1950’s first grader could pass a 2009 high school graduation exam.
Only recently did I realize that the SAT and IQ scores I’ve been hearing for kids today do not compare to the numbers I scored n the sixties. Why? THE TESTS WERE DUMBED DOWN IN THE SEVENTIES AND CONTINUE TO BE DUMBED DOWN EVEN TODAY.
We’ve dumbed down our schools to accommodate all comers. For the last eight years, we’ve dumbed down the presidency. I could go on…
Welcome to the low information age! While a small group at the top are more educated and astute than ever, the vast public out there is stunningly…DUMB!!!
The Zogby poll on uninformed Obama supporters is unbelievable, but I’m betting the McCain person on the street interviews might not be a whole lot better.
Am I the only person who thinks “get out the vote” is bad for the country? Why push a person to vote who can’t even – on their own – get themselves registered?
So now we have Obama, elected primarily by voters who can’t even tell you one policy position the man has.
We have to pass a test to get a driver’s license. Perhaps it’s time to consider a test for voter registration.
I know, I know – scream, scream! ACLU. My rights, my rights! It’s just my own personal fleeting fantasy. Clearly the constitution guarantees the right to be stupid,
we nee to push against this insane media consolidation
We can thank Obamas corporate media sponsors like Dick Parsons at TImeWarner, Jeff Immelt at GE, all of them dumb down America and make us branding ready
they gave us a brand
Isn’t comparing Obama to Bush just as bad as comparing him to Hitler?
just sayin…
Uh oh…that post could be taken out of context like I was taking up for Obama.
I was not!
But they are much the same. Bush II never living up to his daddy’s shadow… Obama abandoned as a child by essentially both parents… both have a deep need to be loved and accepted. Neither qualified for the job they were “selected” for. In many ways this will be a trip “back to the future”. Bush III.
Yes RRR Amy, I have been saying the same. There are things BO has done once in the Senate that are closer to GWB than to HRC:
(1) Cheney Energy Bill
(2) Confirmation (and praise!) for clueless Gen.Casey
(3) Voting AGAINST capping the CreditCards predatory rates at 30%
(4) Voting FOR FISA
All these are opposite to HRC votes and WITH Republicans.
And let’s not forget: BO being the first candidate since way back when to opt out of public financing of his presidential run: where did 600Million come from and who do you think will be coming back knocking on BO’s White House door?
I doubt it’ll be “we the people”….
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
May I add….
Survivor, The Bachelor, Bridezillas, The Apprentice, The View…..etc., etc., etc……
The similar levels of worshiping mediocrity are astonishing…
I hope that people are (politely) lobbying Harry Reid to give
HRC that position on Healthcare.
The NYT says that there are hints she does not want the
secretary of state job because then she will be Obama’s monkey.
She prefers the independence of the Senate.
I’d rather they just arrest Barry now for crimes yet to be disclosed and make Joe The Biden Pretzeldent and then HE can appoint Hillary as VP and she can RUN THE COUNTRY for the next 16yrs! W00T!
Then Sarah can take the next 8
by then I’ll be dead I’m sure
god willing (on the dead part.)
nice OBOT retort
just how I imagine all of them
turn this country into a 3rd world nation real quick by killing off dissent!
you should be so proud
But darling, you will still be young and your corpse will still be beautiful. “F” ‘em when they are mean.
Love never dies.
I’m curious now, for sure. The “hints” have frankly been contradictory.
Today, Bill is reportedly agreeing comfortably to a set of guidelines regarding his own fundraising for the foundation and even speaking engagements.
Sure sounds like a green light to me!
And then there were the reports on Politico saying the opposite, as you point out.
Frankly, the media is the group who just slimed Palin with a hoax blog report, so why would any of us assume they actually verify their sources? For all I know, these “reports” are coming from the cleaning crew.
Daschle just got a Cabinet post. Surprise, surprise.
He negotiated for an additional title of Health Czar. He wants to spearhead 0bama’s healthcare.
Face it!
Hillary’s role in healthcare is over. If she stays in the Senate, she will have to fight and claw for everything regarding heatlthcare.
Standard, I thought I read yesterday that Ted Kennedy is taking on Health Care and he’s already appointed Senator Clinton to head up a committee on insurance overhaul.
Of course, if Clinton takes the SoS job, she’ll have to give up her spot on the Health Care committee.
bush = Worst President Ever
He didn’t do it alone. The “liberal media” either enabled or lead the way for most of bush’s eight years. Had the “liberal media” done their job over the last eight years little to none of the outrages that happened would not have.
Example: obama’s lobbyist stuffed campaign has been allowed to say over and over ‘lobbyist will have no place in an obama admin.’ obama’s pick for AG is a lobbyist:
More on Holder’s Global Crossing Lobbying
Reported AG-nominee Eric Holder is currently a partner at D.C. white-shoe law firm Covington & Burling, where he handles “complex civil and criminal cases, domestic and international advisory matters and internal corporate investigations,” according to the company’s Web site.
http://www.opensecrets.org/revolving/rev_summary.php?id=22503
Top obama advisor tom daschle works for bob dole’s lobby shop. And on it goes.
The “liberal media” will NOT chase obama and his advisors around asking how obama say can lobbyist will not work on his campaign or in his white house when just the opposite has been and is happening. Joe and Jane sixpack are told over and over again by the “liberal media” that obama will clean up washington. That’s all they know. The average person will NOT dig in find the truth. They shouldn’t have to. A free press should tell them the truth.
Some say joe and jane’s ignorance is their fault. Yes, yes it is. But it’s a problem for all of us. So either we hold 300 million Americans accountable or we honor the first amendment’s right to a ‘free press’ and hold the “liberal media” accountable.
As long as we put up with the current press corps we will get bushs and obamas for president.
hadenough:
indeed! The same media that shamefully sold the Iraq war did and keeps doing lots of damage to our democratic process.
I would poist that voting against whoever or whatever the MSM is shilling for sounds like a healthy rule of thumb….
I whole-heartedly agree. Many in the Bush administration should travel straight to The Hague to stand trial on January 21st. (Lawyer up, Big George, Dick, Don, Colin, Paul, Doug, Little George!)
I continue to maintain Obama will be just as bad….starting with abuses of his database of email addresses of who are loyalists. I won’t be convinced that he won for any reason other than he’s not Bush.
that and he’s black (w/out the 90 percent black vote he’d not be where he is either)
just facts
AAs took him across the finish line of the Primary and he almost didn’t make it towards the back end.
White people elected him president.
Time to stop blaming black people for his election.
Do the math: 12% of the voting electorate cannot elect a president.
Where were all those 10 million white Republicans? Clearly they didn’t mind sitting this one out for an AA president.
You can’t pin this one solely on the backs of AAs. Maybe if both Parties in the past had seen fit to put an AA on a National ticket, then maybe AAs wouldn’t have seen this as a once-in-lifetime historical moment. Then maybe they would have scrutinized him during the Primary process.
There’s a lot of blame to go around. It’d be nice if Bush/Cheney got the lion’s share of it.
I agree and would never “blame” it solely on the AA’s whom some for sure only voted for him out of pride not prejudice
I’m more angry about the primaries where the AA vote DOES MATTER!
Uh-oh. No Quarter seems to be acknowledging that its chickens have come home to roost.
What possibly could have attracted the “shrill and unhinged” to this little corner of the internets?
Just saying…
lmao @ shrill & unhinged??? Have you been to KOS?
apparently not
Yep…..same song, flip side.
3rd time trying to post this
ANnie I almost bought what you said about the flip side of the coin
but you are WRONG if referring to blogs
THIS is NOT the flip side of KOS
you would have to go to some extreme right wing site for that
there ARE NO MODERATE VOICES ON KOS
if there are ? they don’t stay long they get kicked to the curb!!
True….although I regularly get invited to leave. *haha
I don’t take it personally.
I’ve debated with you but don’t think I’ve ever asked you to leave.
So far this is a pretty fair place that allows way more than my OWN personal blog would ever put up with………….
I’ve never wished anyone DEAD either which a troll just hit me with……………. great name “HA”
Oh, it’s not about you.
My point is that the hate rhetoric has risen to the level that more than a few posters have stated that this is a “Hate Obama” site and that anyone who has anything OTHER than derisive comments should move on.
I really can’t see that as a game-winning formula for a great blog in the future.
But…just my 2 cents.
I agree with the author that the blog has taken a sharp veer to conspiracy thinking and far-right rhetoric.
Mostly, it can get boring, but so do HuffPo’s comments section: Same reason; opposite cause.
In any case, this article is quite stimulating. I feel encouraged that more moderate voices are being allowed to express themselves in articles. That is a good sign.
A bit of anger after losing is OK, but as a way of life? No thanks.
Would that you are stopped at “2 cents.”
The point, Ann, is that you never do.
LOL
double LOL!!
I thought this site has turned into a Pro PALIN/I hate OBAMA site. It seems that if anyone voices an opinion/thought contrary to absolutely LOVING Palin or HATING OBAMA–they are attacked and called a troll/obot/liar/jackazz etc.
My gosh–if I admitted I think it’s ridiculous to have to wear a “flag pin” to show one’s patriotism (which I do!)–I’d be flamed here.
What happened to bringing opposing viewpoints into the discussion?
I apologized to the posters the other day as I’ve posted some comments that wastes everyone’s time when I got into a “posting-war” with someone I feel constantly hijacks this site with her opinion and then denigrates you if you disagree. I was going to leave No Quarter but decided there are many others who post thoughtful comments to the articles and are well worth sticking around to read. When I come across the person who angers me–I don’t read their comments. Simple as that. No more wasting time.
I also agree with a comment by mimi: Obama won–it’s time to move on but keep him accountable. It seems many here are not willing to do so. However, there is no alternative.
Obviously the Republicans will want to say and promote Senator Hillary Clinton as a great choice for US Secretary of State, sooooo they can beat out her Democratic replacement in the Senate…and gain another Republican seat in the US Senate.
Give this man a non-Bill Clinton cigar …
The democrat governor of NY would naturally choose a democrat replacement. Obama would never pull a democrat senator onto his team from a state with a republican governor for this very reason.
Wierd, I haven’t noticed people defending Bush here. I guess I just glance and look away when I see it and it gets dumped from my memory bank.
I’m focused more right now on the economy and the impending Great Depression Redux than I am ideological arguments.
Bush was a complete and utter disaster for this country AND for the GOP, and I can’t imagine anyone trying to defend him.
It is pathetic watching Republicans talk about re-branding the party, even as they studiously avoid saying the truth about why: George W. Bush and sycophantic party partisans who cared more about their party than their country. It’s just so IRONIC to me that Republicans helped destroy their own party because they were so intent on having more power for their own party.
Power corrupts…absolute power corrupts absolutely. It’s just a truism that we have watched play out over the past 8 years. And, it’s a cautionary tale for the Democratic Party which has shown itself thus far to be just as susceptible to the sirens of that demon.
I’m a BI-PARTISAN critic these days. I consider myself independent, and have no ties to either major party, and probably won’t have ties to a particular party ever again.
I’ll just continue to be a critic of hypocrisy, an advocate for information and transparency, and a proponent of the Constitution.
“Party” has become a dirty word. How long have we been pawns anyway?
Mountainaires,
Well said.
I had basically the same reaction to these comments. If dcmediagirl is basing these remarks on comments to her posts, then I wouldn’t know because I don’t read usually read her posts. I haven’t come across comments that otherwise fit her description in reading responses to other writers posts either. Hmmmm???? Weird, yes, yes, weird!
dcmediagirl may have an insider’s view of the news business but that usually is not a panoramic view.
My goal also; every action should begin from a Constitutional basis and if the Constitution needs to be changed, the mechanism for that is spelled out. The Declaration of Independence states that it is the right of the People (that is us, not some political party) to change our government when it no longer serves our needs. Soertoro, aka Obama, is a servant of the People and it is his duty to protect and serve not to rule. There is no usehaving a school unless there are students to teach; and there no use having a government without People to protect.
Surprise, surprised????
These politicans are really just that “politicians”. They may care about our country but not as much as we do. They always have their ideology and political interest first.
And btw are you also aware that the msm has elected our president, congressman and senators for the last 16 years now? The power of media is something we have to deal with so we can have the right people in elective positions.
Oh and regarding elected leaders paying for their crimes, I think it is a good idea. Should teach a lesson to all of them. The media, Congress and Senate should not decide what to do with them but they should go to a judicial process just like other citizens.
Ted Stevens is going to start this ball rolling. But he is certainly not the only guilty party. That’s why they wanted 0bama. He’s the perfect bought and paid for Chicago style politician. It’s all about the results and not the methods, right?
From the posts I’ve read concerning the Hitler analogy, I’ve taken them to be statements reflecting the way in which that leader mislead an entire populace. The mob hysteria that ensued – and the fact that thousands of Germans simply ignored the signals coming from the candidate Hitler very early on as well the regime. So, while I’ve seen the protest you make elsewhere before, (also without specific references), it feels like an attempt to minimize and shut down a reflective discussion of history. That in MHO is partially why so many millions of people are simply believing what is coming out of their television sets about Obama without challenging the messages – they seem to have shut out or never learned from the lessons of the past. Additionally, some people here are extemely angry. A contrary view of Obama is consistently minimized, ignored or ridiculed by the MSM – so maybe that is another reason some people make large statements about Obama. So, well said you’re not about to forgive and forget about George Bush. However, after the pack of lies we just went through during the Primaries and General Election some of us really do wonder if all the information we have been systematically spoon fed about George Bush by the likes of MSNBC et al have been accurate. I’m with you about not forgetting the tragedy George Bush has left us with, but I am also open to hearing what others here and on other blogs are experiencing and feeling about the present. I may not agree with it, may sometimes find it over the top, but certainly respect others chance to exercise their 1st Amendment right (and am grateful we can all still do so). If previous users no longer visit here because they were offended or stressed by some peoples opinions, then finding a nice quiet site without vigorous debate would certainly be understandable. There are numerous such comfortable places to go – most television news coverage now offers that in 24 hour cycles. If NQ would like people to no longer discuss certain topics perhaps NQ could post a guideline and then commenters could follow those speech restrictions or find other blogs without those restrictions.
Thank you very much for your post, with much to consider.
Hitler was a mass murderer. The analogy is grotesquely inappropriate.
However, what led up to that is what I have seen discussed. And that bit of history should never be forgotten. The how gets minimized when one focuses only on one aspect of what happened.
I completely agree. To forget the period of 1930-31 is to never realize how 1939 came about. Did Hitler just spring up and start exterminating? NO. I don’t see anyone here calling Obama an annihilator. I believe the comparisons to Hitler refer to his alarming rise to power and use of mass influence eight years prior to the invasion of Poland.
To ignore 1931 is to deny that 1939 could ever happen again. I believe Obama is a malignant loser incapable of making decisions. But I personally don’t live with that disillusion that history can not be repeated.
Perhaps if we stopped using the “H” word and simply referred to “that guy in Germany . . . “
But he was not always a mass murderer. Before he was a mass murderer, who was he; how did he act and what did he say? Was he a charismatic pathological liar like Alibama?
Thank you. That’s what I was thinking.
He didn’t start out as a mass murder. He started out as an orphaned artist. Stranger things have happened. Don’t like what people have to say in response to your thread? Don’t post. You are a little to hot to shut down discussion, imho.
dcmediagirl,
Although I support the basic premise of your post, here’s where I disagree: your statement is a black & white one.
We do too much thinking along those lines. The lack of nuance in our critical thinking has elected an unvetted president.
Hitler was not always a mass murderer. He became that. To not try to understand the psychology and personal history of the man, along with the historical conditions that evolved his ultimate persona as the mass murderer of the 20th Century, will only lead to this happening again.
I will not apologize for being creeped out by the cult-like adoration that 0bama has engendered and being reminded of the potential of its meaning.
Of course, 0bama is not Hitler. And unhinged, mindeless name-calling without evolving a polemic and framing it within an historical context is useless. But to blanketly say that such analogies are grotesque and inappropriate, I simply can’t give that a carte blanche.
History has proven that things don’t always end the way they begin. It’s important to understand the process.
There were a multitude of people who realized what Hitler was and what he was doing who should have spoken out against him but chose to remain silent. Even the small 20 or so acre soveriegn nation called the VATICAN realized what Hitler and Mussolini were about. Instead of speaking out against the Nazi/Fascist thugs, the Vatican entered into a compact with them by signing a CONCORDAT with Hitler and Mussolini. The concordat was an agreement between the Vatican and Hitler/Mussolini the Vatican would remain silent in exchange for the guarantee they would not be invaded by the Hitler and/or Mussolini armies. Silence cost millions of Jews their lives.
Before that guy in Germany came to power, there was no recent historical analog to warn people about what he was about to become. Nowadays, having this recent historical precedent, we would be very foolish to ignore the danger signs. In fact, we must remain ever-vigilant for the danger-signs of mass enthusiasm, of large populations enthralled by a charismatic leader. It sounds preposterous that it could happen here. We can never think that it is impossible for it to happen here. We must remain vigilant.
In the mid 30’s Hitler was not yet known as a mass murderer. He was a charismatic leader that was elected by an unhappy populace that longed for change, in a country that was experiencing economic hardship. Initially he was praised by many world leaders, and was admired around the world. Germany hosted the very extravagant ‘36 Olympics with world wide fanfare.
After taking power one of his first campaigns was to either assimilate other political factions through appeasement, or eliminate them by shutting down their free speech, (fairness doctrine?). He also dumped many of his past associates that helped him rise to power and began courting members of the long established power structure. Those who did not fall for his charm were eventually pushed into irrelavancy or worse, with the considerable aid from a fawning media/propaganda machine. Experiencing deja-vu yet?
dcmediagirl, so far, from what I’ve written, where has a comparison between Hitler and Obama been grotesquely inappropriate?
Frankly, if you can’t see how inappropriate it is to compare the president of the United States to Hitler, then nothing anyone can say will change your perspective.
This is the talk of skinheads, far-right bloggers, etc.
Like it or not, Obama will be our president.
I don’t like the smear stuff on him any more than I liked the hysterical far-left talk of the last 4 years or the smearing of Palin.
I’m just a bit of a prude here. I don’t respect smear talk.
Period.
But…..I do ignore the posts that go off on that tangent. Just nutcases, to me.
There’s always a bunch on every blog.
Zing! Right over your head.
She’s hard to resist, no? She’s the equivalent of online free crack cocaine …. lol
No, I have always gotten the Hitler comparisons.
It’s embarassing so many people go for that thinking.
It’s called…
cheap shot.
Some people think of it as being a student of history. You shouldn’t try to superimpose your rainbow world vision on everyone Ann. If it worked, who would you have left to feel superior to?
Just glad I’m not a defined Hitler troll.
You’re quite free to be just whatever you present.
Rush L. pointed out today, rightly, that nobody “makes a fool of anyone except the person talking.”
Amen.
I subscribe to the well-understood principle that once Hitler enters the conversation, that discourse is dead.
The only exception is when we are discussing Israel and actual survivors.
Perhaps it could be qualified to his mass appeal being Hitleresque.
I agree just throwing out the name without the qualification could be construed as lazy.
Well put Andrew.
andrew191,
Yours are the kind of comments that I referred to in my comments upthread.
What you wrote was clear and thoughtful and framed within an historical context. They are not the rantings of a skinhead and I resent the implication that an historical analogy is referred to in this way.
People should really try to comprehend what they read.
I’m going to repost your comments because they are worthy to be seen twice:
thanks typewriter, i have never seen success achieved by attempting to shut people down. and just who is this person who thinks they have the right to sermonize for us? beats me but i have to say my interest isn’t that great. i haven’t seen or read anything by this person who tells us to shut up or be nice that warrants an invasion of our posts in this manner. that is larry’s place! talk left has some decent views on this before jeralyn went off the deep end. they had heated discussions but kept the door open for other opinions and that includes those who want to praise bush.
Wait a stinkin’ minute!
Guantanamo Bay – Obama voted to keep it open
FISA – Obama voted for it
The PATRIOT Act – Obama voted for it
Sheeples – Pul-eese! Countless videos prove that bots are the sheeples. Don’t say a word against Obama/Obamanation cuz you are a racist if you do.
If a man is known by the company he keeps, then Obama IS a marxist!
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/10/29/obama-chose-marxists-as-friends/
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2008/02/che-decorates-o.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79467
Yepper.
I come here every day and have not seen the unbased rants spoken of in your post. Criticism of Obama? Plenty, I hope that is not what you are referring to.
For me, George Bush will go down as one of the worst, if not THE worst Presidents we have ever had. He got away w so much illegal shit it’s unbelieveable. No one is fault free but he wasn’t even close to being fit for President. He’s a drunk, a criminal, C student (which is ok but a President should have a better than average intelligence), went AWOL from the National Guard, has given kudos to some of the most incompetent of his staff I have ever seen. (good job Brownie). Sitting there reading my pet goat while people burned in 9/11. War crimes, attacking Iraq, the list goes ON AND ON. I never voted for him but could not believe how Republicans backed him no matter what he did. My mother was one of them. When she found out I didn’t vote for him, she came UNGLUED.
Then we get Barack Obama who is friends w a terrorist, I don’t give a shit what decade it was, Ayers is still the same person and he did what he did and has no remorse. Obama won’t produce his legal birth certificate so he apparently is not a legal citizen of this country. Call it a wild goose chase, but if he is one, then why doesn’t he just produce it? There are lawsuits being filed all over the country about this.
I don’t give a shit what he does, it will not erase the evil acts he has perpetrated with playing the race card, being and promoting sexism, taking illegal contributions, many from foreign countries and the list GOES ON AND ON. I give no reprieve for Barack Obama and HE WILL NEVER BE MY PRESIDENT. He’s a disgrace.
WOODIEJayyyyheyhey W00T!
Righteous rant and a Hear Hear!!
Hooray wodiej! I’ve been sayin’ and sayin’ the same thing til I’m blue in the face! The ends NEVER justifies the means, and I will NEVER give my support or approval to The Pretender!
“If those of you who come here to be apologists for George W. Bush don’t like what I’ve written, well, I don’t actually give a fuck.”
How does ending a post by telling readers you don’t “give a fuck” help?
Vee: Help what?
uh … with your contention that other people are shrill and “bad?”
Ever been in a group therapy session? They have a saying that goes a little like this … “if it is always everyone else, the problem is probably you.”
“How does ending a post by telling readers you don’t “give a fuck” help?”
Sounds like another way of telling people to move along.
It’s the beginning of what we students of history call… a “purge.”
Anyone who comes on here praising George W. Bush’s legacy can indeed move on as far as I’m concerned.
I visit here daily and never once have seen anyone praise George Bush. Never once. ???
I find the suggestion here that ANYONE has supported shrub disengenuous and spurious. But hey, I’m not here 247.
really ?? you were sleeping through a pretty good debate the other day by Seattle Moss and I as Moss did just that!!
Praising W for keeping us safe SINCE 911 (like it didn’t happen under HIS WATCH TO START WITH)
whooooooooo was pretzeldent on 911???? doh~
yea it was a pretty good debate
u missed it
I don’t think people are going to be silenced by your histrionic post.
Hear! Hear!!!!!
frankly, dcmediagirl, who posts about george bush isn’t your concern. frankly it isn’t your busines either. it is larry’s. it is HIS BLOG!
I am one of those who have had little to say of late. Obama is the same despicable character today as he was on November 3, 2008. I do not intend to forgive and forget. The right wing nuts are going crazy after finding out that by not supporting and voting for Obama, they now have him as their President.
I don’t think forgetting is a solution.
Revision of Democratic Party guidelines is the solution.
We hit a wierdo place this year. Never before had the SDs actually had to sway an election.
It’s obviously upset half of us.
So…..revise the party structure is the solution.
My comment was lost by my own mistake. I forgot to fill in the name and email. So in order for you to find out you will have to imagine it cause I am not writing it again.
THREEEEEEEEEEE times I just did that!!!!! lol
If people feel xenophobic, why shouldn’t they feel free to express it? Maybe websites need to post a roster of “values” so that any prospective contributor can see if he/she falls within the acceptable political sphere for that site.
“Maybe websites need to post a roster of “values” so that any prospective contributor can see if he/she falls within the acceptable political sphere for that site.”
Hear! Hear! It would be very helpful if ADMIN spoke to this.
Hootnannie: By all means be xenophobic. If you’re proud to hold narrowminded and bigoted views then knock yourself out. But before you go off on a bracing anti-immigrant and/or anti-ferrnerr toot, I’d like to know where your people are from. If either of your parents are non-Native American then I suggest you readjust your irony meter.
Maybe the use of the word “foreign” is just another way to say “different?” Are we going to be so territorial that we can’t for the life of us see that there are large issues out there? If your only problem with 0bama is that he’s not as bad as Bush, maybe you’d be happier posting … gee …. ur …. um … I don’t know …. I think that criteria is a pretty low threshold of acceptability.
Maybe the use of the word “foreign” is just another way to say “different?” Are we going to be so territorial that we can’t for the life of us see that there are large issues out there? If your only
problem withdefense of 0bama is that he’s not as bad as Bush, and that he’s NOT Hitler, Castro or Chavez, maybe you’d be happier posting … gee …. ur …. um … I don’t know …. I think that criteria is a pretty low threshold of acceptability.I get the impression that it’s not so much that people dislike foreigners, but rather don’t want a person who is not a natural born citizen to be president, especially since that is a requirement. I really don’t see the hatred for other countries. Just other countries dictators.
I wouldn’t call that narrowminded and bigoted. That is what the founding fathers felt was important enough to put into our constitution.
Yes, this is part of the original intention of the Founding Fathers and included in the Constitution.
The election of 0bama, whom we never proved was not born here, but of whom many of us here have suspicion, will probably put this on the table to argued.
I’ve learned that many people harbor some form of xenophobia. I do. But I also know that it comes from the lower part of my nature and certainly not my intellect. Most xenophobic conversations are base and ignorant, which is why to discuss them in an open forum leads nowhere. They are filled with gross generalizations, stereotypes, misinformation and our deep-seated fears.
media girl, cut the dang preaching. your own house needs cleaning.
If You Want To Say The Pledge of Allegiance, You’ll Have to Leave the Room
http://patriotroom.com/if-you-want-to-say-the-pledge-of-allegiance-youll-have-to-leave-the-room/
I used to come here a lot more, but am still digesting what happened in the election. I am still not on the unity pony, and feel pretty disenfranchised out here in California. I appreciated some of the posts on the misogyny in the campaign but the question remains for me what are we going to do as a collective about it? I have joined some groups that have started to fight it, but there is a lot of work to go. Lately, some of the posts haven’t resonated with me. I see Obama actually as a Bush clone, and with many opportunities to make a lot of mistakes Bush made in terms of magnitude, especially in foreign policy. I am stunned that HRC might be SOS, and I too am having trouble with her role in the election and getting on Obama’s bandwagon. I feel Bill is very much needed on the world stage, and don’t want to see him handcuffed. I submitted an essay to NQ recently, and never heard a response, so I am looking at other blogs as well. I see the same posters here over and over again, might be time for some new voices in the collective.
Clear thinking, Sharonevolving. Don’t give up. I am with you in your reactions to the past two years. There is a lot of work to do. In six months after all this magical MSM fairy dust has settled we will all see more clearly which route to make and take.
The above should read ” by not supporting and voting for McCain, they now have Obama as their President”. Sorry about the error.
Well, I’m sick of the lovefest for both.
Never liked any of the Bushes…and I don’t like Obama.
Too much taking up for Bush from people who say they’ve been democrats all their lives, or independent. I could never in my wildest dreams imagine me saying “Bush kept us safe for all these years!” I can only imagine republicans saying that. Maybe there’s been so much hatred for Obama, that it’s blinding the hatred for Bush??? Or in some minds, Obama just makes Bush look that much better??
I’m not going to sit here and take up for the republicans who have shit on us for years. Nor will I say “Oh, I’ll give Obama a chance”. If he’s a bad president…I expected as much. If he’s a good president, I’ll be happily surprised. I’m kinda banking on that he’ll be a complete do NOTHING president, like he’s done his whole life…nothing.
I’m 41 years old. Bill Clinton is the only president I’ve liked in my lifetime, and I’m pretty down on politicians. So I expect them to suck.
This is a scary time. People don’t know what to think because we know nothing about him. He’s been protected and things are covered up for him. What is he going to do as president that we won’t even know about.
I do think it’s wrong for people to assume the worst, and I do think it’s wrong for people to assume he will do the best he can. He’s been on that Afghanistan committee and not held ONE meeting??? How can you say that’s doing the best you can??
I love dcmediagirl’s blogs and tend to agree with much of what is written. however, this entire board has been calling Obama a muslim, American hating, marxist, Hitler throughout the entire primaries and elections. This isn’t anything new. And I don’t see anything wrong with people expressing that.
I still think he needs to show his birth certificate. However, it’s been too long with too much procrastating that the ones who question him now won’t ever believe it’s real. Like me.
It seems like a lot of Obama lovers are hanging on here. I’m getting pretty tired of the “I know more than you and am better than you because I’m not scared about Obama” attitude. I was scared when Bush took the presidency. I cried saying “what will happen to this world” when they took Florida away from Gore. I’ve been just as scared with obama. The man keeps talking about war with Pakistan – he’s got a wierd obsession with it like Bush did with Iraq.
I’m also not about to forvie and forget the Obama crowd. What was done to Hillary. What was done to Sarah Palin. What was done to Joe the Plumber. What was done to SUSAN! The bots on this site. I’m not forgetting any of it. I can move on, but I’m not forgetting.
Ok, already written too much…no one will read this!
I thought it was RIGHT ON!! I agree with you!
I read your comments, and agree with everything except… I do give credit to George Bush’s presidency for preventing another major terrorist assualt on American soil. I don’t think it is unfair to believe this.
sorry JM the attacks happened WHILE BUSH WAS CAPTAIN OF THE SHIP OF STATE
HE IS TO TAKE THE BLAME (never has)
ever SINCE 911
American have awakened at their POSTS (FAA,CIA,NSA,ETC)
Bush took a dozen vacations while people suffered.
He’s done NADA!
all of his appointments were also disappointments (rummy,brownie,chainsaw,wolfie,condi,etc, not a winner in the lot)
AMERICANS
you and I
I also wanted to express that I am a lifelong Democrat who had never voted for any Republican until our recent general election. I voted a straight Republican ticket in Florida. It was a protest vote for the most part, especially downticket, but the top of the ticket was a vote for who I considered to be the better presidential candidate. Obama has been given way too much credit for his “intelligence”. I fail to see it, but that’s just me.
As for the Republican ticket, I didn’t consider them to be extremely intelligent either, but I believed them to be competent, and their hearts and minds were in the right place as far as I am concerned. McCain and Palin are not stupid people, but I believe that Hillary had better qualities then any of the people that ran in the general election.
Hillary is now in the past, and I am moving on. I am just not willing to swallow the Obama pill since I don’t believe it will make me feel any better.
I agree. I think I’m allergic to the Obama pill. Major side effect was nausea & vomiting.
I do respect your opinion on Bush, just disagree. I don’t think they should have been giving money to the Taliban (to stop the opium) back in 2001 when they were getting dossiers named “Osama wants to strike inside the US”.
The terrorists struck the towers in 1993, then again 8 years later. I guess since Clinton was president and no other attack happened on our soil, then he should be given credit for keeping us safe too. However, I don’t really feel that way. I think if they wanted to hit us & it was plausible, they would have. Every expert says that it takes a while to plan and train and strike again. So I’m not surprised it hasn’t happened since.
If it is Bush personally that has kept us safe, then I apologize for not giving him credit. I doubt he really cares what I think anyway!
Idiocracy08, I just read it and loved it. I’ve had the very same thoughts and anxieties the past two years.
Saying that we need only to look at Bush to determine there is no way that things can possibly be worse than they are/were with him has “Obot” written alllll over it!
You betcha
dcmedia girl wrote:
“I’m all about moving on but not about forgive and forget, not for the Bush crowd.”
from helping LIEberman keep his gavel to saying he has not plans to prosecute or even fire the government employees who tortured people I think we begin to get an idea of what is coming.
I hope not but that is my fear.
but your post is right on. Bush apologists should be put our of our misery or try posting at townhall.
Captain Howdy: I posted about Lieberman yesterday and got slapped around for it. Again, no apologies.
keep it up. sane voices are needed.
IMO. if you like LIEberman you are gonna love Barky.
word
In the past I posted maybe more than now. Part of it is post-election doldrums. But it has nothing to do with the posts thenselves. I do not think they are more or less shrill or unhinged than before. If there are over 100 comments and someone has alrady said what I would say then I tend not to post.
What I object to, and there is probably nothing that can be done despite valiant efforts by NQ, is
the number of posts off topic, and those that get into personal things like trying to get a picture of a poster. Fun, but not really germaine. And that kind of back and forth takes a long time to go through. And by off topic I don’t mean someone who gives a breaking news post. I mean someone who just brings up a topic that has been discussed to death in a different thread. Then dozens of folks take off in that direction. But that is jist the way it is.
Sometimes what I would like is some in-depth discussion back and forth of what has been written. There are great posts here with lots of merit. It would be nice to discuss. But I get just as much just reading such good information.
I feel neutral about this post…I get some of DC’s thinking, but I feel the reaction was way over the top.
Obama’s hysteria and NEW LINCOLN PERSONA VIA MSM make me want to puke.
In my local paper we have had the usual suspects write in to say how great McCain is since he’s not running for president….yeah , right. Then just like some here they proceed to trash opposing thoughts. TOLERANCE ,that is the goal. I don’t have to agree with you, but I do respect your right to say it.
McCain is the same man now, as he was 2 weeks ago, and sadly so is Obama. Only your perception has changed, helped along by the media, collector plates, and newly minted Obama coins.
Some greve in silence, some in posts that are exaggerated….
I would never defend Bush, and have spent eight years avoiding the man at every turn.
But, this country has had many leaders who have skirted around the Constitution!
Bush one, Reagan, Johnson, and others too numerous to mention here!
I strive to maintain decency in my comments, but are we to assume that free speech here should be curtailed?
Pass on by posts that do not appeal to your standards…that’s the way I handle any printed copy!
BTW, I like Lieberman. He did nothing wrong here, not supporting Obama in my opinion.
He after all is only in the senate because he ran AGAINST the NEW DEMOKRATIC PARTY, to have some diversity in the party. I always think a mix of different thought in either party is a great thing, so I encourage it.
Make fun of Lieberman at your own peril, he may know more than we do.
I find it interesting that when BO entered the US Senate it was up to him to choose who he wanted as a mentor (all entering Senators have to choose one). And despite the some Obamabots going nuts over this, BO chose Lieberman as his mentor.
(not Durbin as some like to lie).
Interesting Lieberman did not support BO.
Wow. I guess the Freedom of Speech thing doesn’t work here either? I have not PRAISED Bush, but I am one of the ones who has thanked him for keeping me safe. I refuse to bash him all day long like others. So what the poster is saying is this?
1) You MUST bash Bush all day long
2) You MUST not tell the TRUTH about Obama, including the fact that his personality very easily lends itself to comparisons to Hitler, Castro, etc.
WTF? Everything that has been said about Obama is the truth. And anyone who isn’t terrified by him taking the reigns is naive IMO. If not JUST because he has NO experience whatsoever. But if you factor in all of the lies, sexism, racism, cheating, bizarre associations, hatred for our symbolism, statements about his plans for our country IN HIS OWN WORDS…How can you not be scared? I’m sorry, but I’m not going to get all touchy feely about Obama. If that is what this site is and what we are required to post, then I would suspect a lot of people will leave. I don’t wish him well and I will never reward his acts with support. Period. And that’s my right as an American.
To be honest, nobody knows what Obama will do. My best guess is he will try his best to be an appeaser, mainly out of a deeper need for acceptance and approval. We would then see “third way” policies drawn from the center of every issue. But that is just a guess, because we don’t have anything real to go with here.
I understand where the heated rhetoric comes from. My understanding does not excuse it. But I think we should acknowledge the fear (leading perhaps to paranoia in some) is not unfounded when you consider some of the tactics used in the campaign were fear-based themselves: opposition were labeled “racists,” if we did not submit to this candidate there would be race riots, etc. The comparisons to past evildoers is not entirely unfounded. I won’t be more specific as not to beat a dead horse. Surely every sane rational person would agree dividing peoples to gain power is a manifestation of pure evil? I’m not at all surprised thinking people are very upset, anxious, depressed, fearful and perhaps even paranoid.
By the way I have been trying to help self-police the comments, even though some may consider me an offender myself. I push hard, but have limits. I am totally unhappy with the outcome of this sham election but realize there is little I can do about it and have vowed not to help this administration not even one scintilla of an iota (dang that’s puny!) because I don’t consider the new administration legitimate. Other than not help them (not that they would care nor that I have any meaningful impact) I will watch and mock them as they stumble. If anyone wants to do more than I, then I urge them to take a break and reassess, and whatever path they choose, to make sure it is within the law. I feel laws were violated in this “election,” so the last thing I will do is become a hypocrite and even consider violating any laws myself.
I dreaded the last president when he was elected and I was proven right, but we did manage to survive. I have the same dread about the next president and will probably be proven right, but I think we will survive him as well. As I’ve been saying, while Captain Trainingwheels pilots the Titanic into the abyss, we can watch, laugh and have cocktails from the deck of the Carpathia.
Alas, I am back to my usual role as dissenter. I was a dissenter when the war in Iraq started and it wasn’t popular to be critical of it. Now I am a dissenter with the symbolic idol Plasticine-(s)elect. Interestingly in my attempts at self-policing here, I mentioned hysteria as well as how I found the revisionist history of the last administration distasteful.
Maybe instead of this public rebuking of extremism stemming from an extremist campaign it would have been wiser to contact people individually? Oh well the cats out of the bag. People are pretty decent around here and we will survive this impasse. That’s actually a good sign.
I think the bottom line is we should have expected some extreme reactions when such an extremist campaign was run. And people are rightfully upset when their votes have been turned into felgercarb. I refuse to unify behind what I consider an illegitimate leader but don’t fault anyone who does, as that is their right. But I will never submit to group-think, whether it is from something I am against or with people who one could argue should be my allies. I was a PUMA for campaign purposes but now that the “election” is over I am just me once again. You better watch out, my “pizza” can cause major agita!
once a PUMA always a PUMA
you just described it so perfectly!
they should make that our CREED!
“I (WE) refuse to unify behind what I (we) consider an illegitimate leader
but don’t faultnot faulting anyone who does, as that is their right.But IWE will never submit to group-think, whether it is from somethingI amWE ARE against or with people who one could argue should bemyOUR allies.”No offense to any PUMAs, but I prefer to go it alone now.
too late
I’m offended
KIDDIN
Galt,
No one has talked about breaking laws here as far as not agreeing with Obama’s insane policies and socialist nonsense. People here have said that they will not go quietly and will protest. I think that protest means the same thing that it did in the 60’s. Not the Bill Ayers version of bombing stuff. ROFLMAO. I think people are already seeing their rights being taken away and they will dissent. That’s what I will do. I just can’t wrap my head around getting rid of the Constitution. Too many people have fought to protect it. Funny that we elected someone who hates it and thinks “it’s a flawed document.” Now it’s time for us to fight back with words, peaceful protest, etc. I don’t think I have heard ANYONE here say they promote violence or any of that. I would like to know how you got that idea.
I did not mention violence in my comment. I did not get any idea at all. I was expressing my view that I personally will not even think of engaging in illegal acts since I consider that hypocritical considering the illegal acts involved in this “election.”
Since you brought up violence: I do recall reading comments of a coming civil war, people better get their guns ready, etc. I don’t remember who said these things, but they are not helpful, to say the least. Those comments are not necessarily promoting violence, but I personally would never make them and argue against them.
Galt –
I’m with you in spirit, but are you sure your not still on the Titanic with the rest of us? Cause we could use the help manning the life boats. If not, toss a bottle of tequila my way.
Nope, I am on the Carpathia for sure. I never bought a ticket for that voyage. I read the warnings of icebergs here on NQ.
Tosses Choo Choo Magoo a bottle of aged reserve top-shelf tequila. You may as well go down in style.
Send me a postcard from the abyss won’t you? 
Seriously, I hear you. I am at least for now still a US citizen and in the same “boat” as it were.
Dear Galt
Thank you for the tequila. I have enjoyed it immensely. We should be entering the abyss soon. I’m not sure if its the after effects of the tequila but it appears to be a dark, swirling cesspool…ringed by white porcealin? And up head in the distance appears to be a massive – oh, no! I heard a whoosh! We’re spinning now – Remember me in happier times …
As a lifelong Democrat, although I agree that George W. Bush has been a rather poor president, I take exception to the tone of this particular article. His legacy will not be forgotten, but I don’t believe that there are many people here, or anywhere for that matter, that do not recognize that George Bush’s presidency has hurt America in many respects. But the one thing that you seem to not acknowledge is that it has now been 7 years since September 11th, and there has not been another terrorist incident on US soil since that time. George Bush has to be given some credit for that. You may not like to give him credit for anything other than his many mistakes, but to me, this is an important accomplishment. Another major terrorist assault on American soil would have caused major economic problems here, as confidence in America’s ability to protect itself is directly related to confidence in America’s economy. Our nation’s economy took a direct hit after 911. Yes, our economy is also taking a hit today, but blame for that can be placed on a myriad of factors.
I sense some hyperbole in this post which when politics is concerned, it is usually derived from the most liberal quarters. Let’s see what happens when our current freedoms are quashed with the overly controlling Obama clique.
As a disclaimer, I want to write that I do not like the extreme right or left in American politics. I would also like to write that in my opinion, it has been the extreme left that has made it a habit of tearing down America for dubious reasons. As the Beatles sang many years ago, “if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow”. This America hatred is something that I don’t remember seeing from the political right. Although the right may not agree about the direction of America, their criticisms seem to bemoan a loss of American values while the left seems to want to create a whole new list of values that fit their myopic world view. In my view, the American left, especially the extreme left, is more of a threat than the right. Their “give me more government control in my life” attitude is exactly what will dissolve our freedoms as we have known them. Government is good up to a point. Too much government is a self-perpetuating glob that eats our resources through taxes, and tries to shove their excesses down our throats. Keep government in check. Whichever party offers that is the party that offers hope for America. Right now, I don’t see that any longer in the misnamed Democratic party.
Thank you for the great post. I agree especially with that part about the left is so negative, hateful and destructive to this country. And now they have full power with Congress and Obama. It’s a very scary time, no matter what. And, no, none of my friends on the right talk about what a piece of crap America is ALL DAY LONG and how it should be taken apart, dismantled and turned into something else. My feeling has always been that if people hate America so much they should leave and let those of us who are proud to be Americans enjoy our country.
It seems to have always been that way.
Well, I’m liable to stir something up here, but as a believer in the 9/11 conspiracy theory (that the Bush regime partnered with the Saudis to enable the attack – remember PNAC?) I’m not surprised we haven’t seen any additional attacks on American soil. 9/11 accomplished what the writers of PNAC set out to do – create an environment in this country that would allow the administration to go to war in the mid-east to de-stabilize the area and gain control of the oil. Look who’s profited – oil companies, private security companies (Blackwater), developers and contractors (Halliburton), not to mention a fair number of our members of Congress (according to CommonDreams.org, 151 current members of Congress invested in companies that received defense contracts). And look how the Saudi gov’t is being lauded for reaching out to create openness and tolerance. I think we haven’t seen any additional attacks on American soil because that’s the deal that was struck, not because Bush was competent enough to keep us safe.
But then, I’m a believer in the 9/11 conspiracy theory. Call me crazy.
The thing that bothers me is that some of those hijackers were supposedly Saudi Arabian Airlines (the King’s plane) crew memebers….and are still alive.
Now, if people stole their passports or visas, then why are these people still listed as dead hijackers?
There are a whole lot of questions that may never be answered, but there are a group of dedicated people who will never give up trying to uncover the truth.
I think 10 million Republicans might have stayed home because they were told by the MSM McCain was 15 points behind…especially on the west coast, where the polls close after results are coming in on the east coast…
the MSM really does control a good deal of this , and with BO in office, and the extreme affair the MSM is having with his image, we are in for a long ride. I just got my Newsweek, it is unbelievable…it reads like Axelrod wrote it,..or maybe Ayers.
dcmediagirl:
I agree with you re. some extreme threads that go on and on at NQ. I have posted selectively and little lately. I also needed to go into detox. This whole election cycle has been too destructive, upsetting and yes, debilitating. Too much insanity in the pursuit of power. It gets to me.
You talk about your family and as someone that can relate to choosing the US as the your country I want to make a point about some comparison to Hugo Chavez.
What has some truth there is NOT what BO “will do” or how he “will govern” as POTUS. But the type of populist campaign he runned –and that will run again come 2012–: Chavez (like Juan D. Peron) love exciting the masses with similar inflated rethoric and left leaning pitch; while, at the core, taking pretty reactionary measures/tactics. I despise this.
thank youuuu media girlllll!!!!!
I second that emotion!!!
:0)
dcmedia girl, I respect your right to your opinion, but I do not respect your attempt to censor what people are posting. That is disrespectful. And it is, by the way, revisionist history to suggest there is not reason to be fearful of Obama.
Margaret: I just think people who post ignorant, uninformed, bigoted and xenophobic rants would feel more comfortable at the Free Republic. But if they’re going to post here they should expect to be bitchslapped.
But if they’re going to post here they should expect to be bitchslapped.
Who died and made you moderator of acceptable thought at NoQuarter? You buyin’ the blog?
I think No Quarter readers on the whole are a pretty reasonable lot. So I’m not sure DCMediagirl, with whom I usually agree or at least consider with respect, gives the majority of No Quarter readers very much credit with this article.
Certainly there are “unhinged” people posting all over the Internet. However most reasonable people, such as the majority who read here, can discern for themselves which posts are rational and which aren’t. We don’t really need someone to act like they are the only grown-up in the room. It kind of offends me, to be honest.
And just to set the record straight, I find your use of the term “bitch slapped” — please, at least use it correctly in print — offensive beyond measure. Whatever happened to the word “slapped?” Are we to understand that this is now an antifeminist hang out? Can the word “cun’t” be far behind?
From the Urban Dictionary: To open handedley slap someone. Denote disrespect for the person being bitch slapped as they are not worthy of a man sized punch. Suggests the slap was met with little resistance and much whining
BRAVO, beebop!!!!
Wow…”bitch slapped…” Just, well…wow.
Now, you guys….you simply have NO credibility if you’re going to razz about PC, when the writers here REGULARLY use highly demeaning terms to refer to Obama.
That doesn’t bother you.
Come on….be fair.
Look, ’sweetie,’ she’s using “bitch slapped” as an acceptable term in a dialogue to defend a column defending her selective criteria for criticizing an elected official. She bettter do better than “bitch slapped” if she wants to be taken seriously especially after calling some of the regulars here shrill and deranged.
Well said, beebop. For my part I won’t be taking her seriously OR frivolously anymore—I have better things to read. Fortunately many of them continue to be written by thoughtful people on this very site. If they may now expect to be “bitchslapped” for their trouble, that says volumes about the slappers.
Sigh. Ann…Ughhh…You think it’s okay for someone to “bitch slap” us for posting our thoughts? I think that people here have been respectful to EACH OTHER and allowed free opinions and speech. Just really freaky to be told we should all be “bitch slapped.” ROFLMAO. It’s actually so absurd it’s funny.
And if a male poster steps out of line, he will be “cock punched”.
My message was pretty easy to grasp.
I’ll just pay attention to my own choice of words.
Feigning “horror” over non-PC language when it’s OK for everyone else to do it (so long as we’re stoning the same enemy, hehe*)….
That’s just plain old-fashioned hypocricy.
Sorry. That dog won’t hunt.
Honey Bunny … you are one of those people who agree lock step with the poster. If we don’t agree with everything you say, we’re wrong. So funny that you are the one advocating for “loosen” up.
You’re avoiding my point entirely.
But I don’t miss the sarcasm.
Why not address my actual point?
Why not address my actual point?
So sorry, Ann, it was lost there in your smug self applause and self congratulations …. can you dig it out and tell me what it is? And I mean that in the nicest possible way …
bee-bop….use that scroll button, sweetie.
Ann — following your “logic” around would be a full time job and I simply am not interested in it. Bless your heart.
That’s fine. Don’t address the point.
But this spit-spat is one of those “boring” moments.
Either get back to the point, or please drop it.
It’s hypocritical to yell, “You’re Not PC!” while approving of name-calling when it suits you.
That garners no respect for your principles.
All that means is that you think anything goes as long as the poster agrees with your target.
I have no use for that type of thinking. It’s part of the problem that we see today in society.
Either condemn ALL non-pc language or don’t criticize others, just because you don’t agree. That’s what we call, cherry-picking, dear.
If this was your original post, Ann, I need to explain to you that I am not the apologist for the actions of others. They are all big kids and entitled to their own opinions. I was expressing how I FEEL ABOUT THE WORDS “BITCH SLAPPED.” An opinion to which I am entitled. Now beat it.
Now, you guys….you simply have NO credibility if you’re going to razz about PC, when the writers here REGULARLY use highly demeaning terms to refer to Obama.
That doesn’t bother you.
Come on….be fair.
Ann…WTF are you talking about? I don’t care if the comment is “PC” as much as I care that someone thinks they have the right to “bitch slap” people for their ideas and comments. That’s ludicrous and if I told you I was going to “bitch slap” you for one of your troll-like posts you wouldn’t like it either.
You’re just in your usual bash mode, Obamaisafraud.
Same thing as usual.
Bash, Ann? ROFLMAO. You spend your days bashing people here. I never bash anyone unless they start something with ME, which you always do. I’m not so flattered though, since you do it to everyone. If you notice, you commented on MY post, not the other way around. I try to ignore you. But every single time I post you have to snark and write your inane crap you write about everyone here.
You have missed my point entirely. Not to mention, with your abusive language you are starting to sound like one of Obama’s Truth Squad Lieutenants. Again, I respect your right to your own opinion, but others are not going to fall in line with it. NoQuarter is a sanctuary for heated political discussion and respectful disagreement. We have free speech here. Perhaps you would be more comfortable at a pro-Obama site that bans dissenters?
hey mediagirl, this ISN’T YOUR BLOG. AND TAKE THIS AS A SLAP IF YOU WANT. I FOR ONE AM TIRED OF YOUR SELF RIGHTEOUS ATTITUDE. TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND ACT HUMAN.
The only direction I have ever felt censorship coming from on the No Quarter blog is from dcmediagirl. When you look at the big picture, most people including the brilliant Obama, our friends Hillary and Bill, and anyone you can name are ignorant about just about everything.
It takes some presumption to label people’s opinions ignorant….after all we are not debating legislation on the floor of Congress. People are just eexpressing their opinions for better or worse. I thought that is the whole idea of No Quarter….to encourage dialogue. If someone’s opinion is offensive, then give them some good reasons why they might want to change their opinion.
For moderators who like to censor opinions, Huffington Post seems like a good place to go.
I just have to laugh…
This post seems to be coming down on people who are posting comments/things the writer doesn’t like….Think back to the post that have been put up here at NQ and you think people aren’t right in posting comments comparing Obama to people like Hitler?
I am no Bush cheerleader but you think it is just fine to bash Bush but leave Obama alone…is that it? What makes you think people give a f- if you want to be an apologist for Obama?
And you wonder why comments have dropped off here at NQ….maybe people want to read facts and not opinions..maybe people like to get both sides of a story so they can make up their own minds…maybe people are tired of trolls in the comments…there are a lot of reasons people might have stopped commenting here at NQ….maybe they have moved on…for me…I like facts, my time online these days I spend looking for truth not opinion, I have other things to do as I am sure many do.
Thank you 30yrdem…I don’t really get the anger from the poster and the “I don’t give a fuck” comment. Wow. I have been coming here for a few months and find it to be an interesting place with a lot of different view points. I wonder if it’s coming from Larry that everyone should shut the fuck up and just post what we are told. It would seem that would make for some boring conversation, as well as a big drop in visitors. For the most part people here are friendly and respectful, and a lot of valuable information is passed along here, which is a big reason I hang around. But this kind of stuff is scary.
Poor DC media girl
“One poster wrote that Bush’s decision to invade Iraq will be viewed so favorably by history that he’ll be another Harry Truman.”
I’m the one that wrote that and I stand by what i said!!!
Calling me a tinfoil hat for speaking about The projection of American power in the world and what that means for our security exposes your naivete to world events.
I’m just glad YOU are not deciding foreign policy
I’m disappointed in your post!!
Obama is a Fraud: I’ve noticed you love conspiracy theories. To answer your question, no, Larry doesn’t tell me what to write. To suggest that is pretty sexist IMHO.
Wow…Just curious…Who do you think you are insulting everyone here today? Man. Maybe you need to do something about the rage.
(this, just moments before she threatens to “bitch slap” Margaret ….)
By the way, regarding your snarky post…I didn’t say Larry “tells you what to write.” I’m just curious about this blog turning into your very own insult-fest. Was wondering if that’s the tone he wants. People being beaten up for posting their thoughts. I don’t get where your “sexist” comment comes from. Wow. You should talk to someone about that anger. Really.
Hey OIAF…
I’m very upset with this blog today..Not very imaginative people..Shall we say..
STUCK ON STUPID!!!
Maybe I should hang out somewhere else where pragmatic and visionary people come together..
Just remember Truman was the all time worst president until years later when history made him one of the best. of course if you had been living at that time I’m sure you wouldn’t have seen the forest for the trees back then either.
Hey Moss…I’m a little shocked by this thread to be honest. This place has been a lot of fun and even if people didn’t agree with each other it has been friendly opposition. Now I’m getting “bitch slapped.” Good thing it’s virtual “bitch slapping,” cause I’m 5′10″ and pretty quick LOL. Don’t leave here because of this. Let’s move to another more friendly thread.
No. That is exactly like accepting 0bama without complaint. This is all about value and what this blog is. If we don’t stand up for anything, what do we stand up for? “Bitch slapped?” What the hell is that?
I have NO idea where this right to “bitch slap” us comes from. WTF? Really. Wow. But I would submit it’s a reflection on the poster as I have never been on a blog where I have been “bitch slapped.”
I find that most of the really ugly and institutional anti feminine rhetoric comes from women who think they are smarter than their peers. Having said that, just those two ugly words used side by side is such a violent image that it takes your breath away. I couldn’t move beyond it.
yea I’ve never liked those two words together (speaking as someone who was kicked once and choked another time by hubby #2)
and I usually don’t or won’t type the actual word bit** unless I’m super p.o.’d otherwise I type biotch
i know, i know it’s the same ugly word
OIAF…
Your views are spot on and represent the reality of the world we live…Not the hopey utopia that doesn’t exist except in the minds of bong hitters and pacifists.
I suggest additional reading on world history for some folks here.
I spent alot of time posting on DC threads but now I’m not sure if I will ever give another comment..My time is valuable to be brushed aside by a little sexist bitch slapper.
Nice to know that you are 5″ shorter than me!
Moss…5″ shorter? Wow. Well I wear six inch heels every day, so we’re even. I don’t love the violence of being “bitch slapped” either. I haven’t threatened anyone on this blog with that kind of behavior and it’s rather unpleasant.
OMG…I love those heals!!
Yeah, they’re great other than when you trip over a dog bone, fall off, and break your foot
That’s when you need a big tall strong guy to break your fall….
obama is afraud, i recommend you ignore the diary. disagree if you want! i did. i found it interesting this diary person wants to tell us how to write and then shows themselves to be quite rude in responses. i don’t see anything here, keep moving as they say at car wrecks.
When you find where that is, please come back and tell us.
That’s her deal or his deal…..
Bashing is her/his hobby in life.
and ann, you deal is what exactly? oh that’s right straightening all of us out!
Thankfully, I have no such illusions.
Otherwise, I’d be over-the-edge like many of you guys determined to change people’s thinking.
*haha
Sorry, I retired from being God of the World years ago.
You’re entitled to your opinion. and you also get the feedback that comes with that award.
Congratulations.
well ann we disagree again. i believe you have many illusions. you have a nice weekend.
Near the end of the …. uh, um …. you know, that long long l …. o ….n ….. g period that ended on November 4th, I just resigned myself to the “fate” of one vote for one voter (ignoring ACORN and its insidious activities for my personal sanity). It was obvious that the (spitting the word out) media was not going to take up any facts to derail the 0bama express line to history. So I got off the site for a while. And then I found too many trolls and too many threads filled with rants that didn’t do any thing but kvetch.
We fought the good fight here. We worked for HRC and did everything we could. We workd to get McCain elected in the face of what we knew about the fraud that is 0bama and it just proved that old saying that there is one born every minute and they must have over whelmingly supported him.
When you had good people like Strickland, Albright, etc. say the same negative things about him and are now — in Madeline’s case — working for him for Christ’s sake!!! how can you not be stunned and disgusted? Do you really think that the people here who voted against everything he is and “stood” for (whatever the hell that is at any given moment) are going to roll over to get their bellies scratched?
Not me. I agree with Galt, or whoever it was way up thread who said he is not and never will be my president. In the same — very freaking same way that shrub wasn’t. And you know something? I don’t really care if you don’t agree either. Bless your heart.
Despite the accuracy of some of your statements, your post reeks of self-righteousness. I have never been on any blog where I concurred with all the opinions expressed. I give Larry a great deal of credit for allowing the free expression of a wide range of opinions. If free speech is so respulsive to you, perhaps you should start your own blog where you can control and censor the content in the style of the Great Leader Obama. You should be grateful for the opportunity to have the bully pulpit to criticize other participants.
Term limits for all elected public servants, not just POTUS would get us a lot more honest politcians that care about doing the right thing for the USA and not just buying votes two weeks after taking office so that they can be reelected.
Let’s face it. They are all about getting your vote sometime in the future. Barack has made a career out of that and so has Bill, Hillary, W.,…………..it’s a very long list.
I disagree. Mandatory term limits deprive me of my right to vote for whom I wish. The minimal requirements of citizenship and age set forth in the Constitution ought to be the extent of those limitations. Every functioning democracy has a term limit mechanism already in place. It’s called the ballot box. Term limits have been broadly enacted in California and other states for years now, and the “honest politicians that care more about doing the right thing” are as conspicuous by their absence as they ever were. Maybe moreso. I live in NYC. We have a good mayor. To be able to keep him—if we decide to—term limits have to be repealed. It’s ridiculous. Let the voters decide, case by case. That is democracy.
Addressing your comment on regulars who don’t post any more…I used to post here regularly before the election. I still generally visit every day to see what’s up, but I don’t spend as much time and have quit posting so much. I have tried to give myself a breather from a very disappointing situation, and don’t really feel like arguing with people right now.
I think continuing to obsess over political issues that I have virtually no control over is not really a healthy thing, and I was devoting way too much mental energy to it. So back to a normal life for me.
As for this…
The thin record is exactly why people are jumping to conclusions about Obama. People have to fill in the blanks to figure out who this guy is, and they project qualities onto him BECAUSE he is virtually a blank slate. Constantly “voting present” obscures your identity further. The projection works in both the positive & the negative (Messiah vs. Hitler). We know virtually nothing about him. People are scared and have every right to be. I have done too much research to think that this is a good person. I am not naive. He is at best a total liar. I think the country has been suckered and I can only hope it is not catastrophic. I hope I am wrong and that he really will emerge as a decent human being that doesn’t hate what America stands for. But I don’t think I am wrong. Regardless of whether he is dangerous personality, he has dangerous ideas for this country.
Finally, I think it is pretty immature for you to say you “don’t give a fuck” what people think, but then at the same time expect others to care what you say and listen to you. This blog is not created for any one individual. You don’t have to like everything that is said (I don’t). We all have free will and free speech. If someone doesn’t like the free speech here, they should exercise their free will and leave.
I read your web page every day. I hope that you will continue to inform us.
I was a strong Hillary supporter and not too keen on Obama. I still don’t like the President Elect. I watched Obama from the very beginning. I saw how he lied; there are too many things that just don’t sit well. For example: Contributions, Ayers, Wright etc. etc.
I’m not much of a writer which is why I have not been posting.
Lisa
Well said, dcm-girl, well said. I started reading here many years ago (probably during Joe Wilson) off a link from the Counterterrorism blog and have been reading ever since. I still think Larry is one of the true authoritative voices on the topic and on intelligence generally.
So I soon become a regular visitor and as the election season heated up also enjoyed much of the political coverage, especially as a confirmed Clintonista. And indeed, there was a lot of news and information posted that wasn’t available elsewhere. And a lot of that was fun and informative.
But yet….some of it was, and I fear increasingly has become just, well, off the charts and beyond reason. So I’m glad you said what you said and I think you’re right. I will continue to read the many, many thoughtful, informative and provocative posts. And will continue to disregard the rest.
Hang in there…hang tough.
dcmediagirl
I respect the perspective you offer, and your sharing your thinking even as you expressed reservations about putting your thoughts out here!
One of the [many] aspects of the Obama movement that unsettled me from the inception of his campaign, is the tendency to categorize and pigeonhole people using stereotypes and generalizations. I see this trend reflected in your piece, as you make references to “those of you”, “those posters”, and “the tin foil hat crowd”. In my opinion, generalizations are divisive and severely limit opportunities for thoughtful dialogue. Similarly, suggesting that people need to “check” themselves, or characterizing unspecified individuals as “hysterical” or “unhinged” is not, in my opinion, an invitation to open discussion.
Offering disagreement or even waging good conflict is a wonderful way to expand thinking and knowledge. Negative stereotyping of PEOPLE, in contrast with crtiticizing IDEAS – or a statement like “I don’t actually give a fuck” – are very effective ways of dumbing down and shutting down serious discourse.
I value NoQuarter as a forum to learn and engage in ‘conversation’ about issues that are extremely important to me. I also value it as a place where there are still opportunities for “thinking out loud” and exchanging ideas. In life, in general, 90% of what we say is bullsh-t, but we have to be open the the entire 100% to get to the 10% that’s real!
JMHO
This is still one of the best blogs around.
Hey, I don’t like George OR Barack. I think the voters got the government they deserved for eight years. You vote for it, you deserve it. Now they will get the government they deserve for at least the next four.
I’m with you! Care for a cocktail as we watch?
Make mine a double….
The poster up above, hadenough, is right on point. The corporate media, in the last 10-15 years, has been calling the shots all the way. They disseminated false information on WMD’s, censored truthtellers and promoted the whole idea that the war was justifiable. Probably after 9-11 the American people were too traumatized to understand fully what was happening. And Bush, Cheney, Wolfie and the others took advantage of this trauma. Torture, wiretapping, secret prisons all of this laid the groudwork for the media to come back full force with someone like BO to defeat Bush. Do not blame posters here or the American people for paranoia or for comparisons to other dictators; many of the strategies used by BO’s people to get him elected were used by other narcissistic leaders. After all we didn’t ask the major media outlets to put his picture on every magazine with light around it or use the race card incessantly or threaten riots if he lost to HRC or saturate the whole country with all positive images of this fraud. We didn’t do that and I think a little paranoia after 8 years of Bush is a good thing. 650 million to make this guy Presiden