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	<title>Comments on: Economic/Market Highlights  11/21&#8230;V-O-L-A-T-I-L-I-T-Y !!</title>
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	<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/</link>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1056851</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1056851</guid>
		<description>LD: 

Thanks a lot for the answers. About 1. you are right about food prices and much of what has gone sharply up due to oil prices.
there has been also what I like to call &quot;hiffen inflation&quot; for a long time that cannot be reversed: ie. tons and tons of products (not just food) being momentarily discontinued in a certain form only to reappear later in a repacked manner with the same price or a slight increase but 2/3 of the original quantity...
 
Regarding the &quot;stagflation&quot; I wonder why after all these type of cycles they can&#039;t figure yet out how to gauge how much money is being or needs to be printed to reflate the economy so as to slow down at a certain breaking point when 
inflation may occur. Grant you must be a difficult problem but
there are seriously smart people out there. That&#039;s why I was asking about Simons&#039; s hedge fund (he is a very famous mathematician). His modus operandi is top secret and his employees are some really bright mathematicians, computer scientists, etc. 

Thanks again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LD: </p>
<p>Thanks a lot for the answers. About 1. you are right about food prices and much of what has gone sharply up due to oil prices.<br />
there has been also what I like to call &#8220;hiffen inflation&#8221; for a long time that cannot be reversed: ie. tons and tons of products (not just food) being momentarily discontinued in a certain form only to reappear later in a repacked manner with the same price or a slight increase but 2/3 of the original quantity&#8230;</p>
<p>Regarding the &#8220;stagflation&#8221; I wonder why after all these type of cycles they can&#8217;t figure yet out how to gauge how much money is being or needs to be printed to reflate the economy so as to slow down at a certain breaking point when<br />
inflation may occur. Grant you must be a difficult problem but<br />
there are seriously smart people out there. That&#8217;s why I was asking about Simons&#8217; s hedge fund (he is a very famous mathematician). His modus operandi is top secret and his employees are some really bright mathematicians, computer scientists, etc. </p>
<p>Thanks again!</p>
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		<title>By: LD</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1056778</link>
		<dc:creator>LD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1056778</guid>
		<description>Andy, 

Thanks for the prop. In regard to your questions:

1. I htink inflation is the greater long term problem simply based on the fact that the Fed is going to keep the Fed Funds rate at a very low rate for an extended period in order for the banks to repair their balance sheets. The problem with that is that too much money will be printed to reflate the economy. In that process, I think we may very well suffer from a currency devaluation literally around the world even while the economy slows. This phenomena is known as stagflation. Warren Buffet has similar concerns and has voiced them. Even with the decrease in the prices of a number of commodities the price for food at the store has not coem down that much. 

2. I think hedge funds are down more than 20% and perhaps 30-40%. A number of them hav ese tup &quot;side accounts&quot; for illiquid investmetns that they can not sell in this current market. As the dust settles it wiillbecome evidnet that they have not properly marked those investments properly. They are basically putting the losses off until later which is exactly what the banks are doing. 

3. I am not sure of Simon&#039;s performance but I do know that hsi funds have lost app 17% of their assets under management. That decline is actual admirable. Forecasts by hedge fund research units indicate that the hedge fund industry as a whole may lose upwards of 50% of their assets from the peak set last June.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, </p>
<p>Thanks for the prop. In regard to your questions:</p>
<p>1. I htink inflation is the greater long term problem simply based on the fact that the Fed is going to keep the Fed Funds rate at a very low rate for an extended period in order for the banks to repair their balance sheets. The problem with that is that too much money will be printed to reflate the economy. In that process, I think we may very well suffer from a currency devaluation literally around the world even while the economy slows. This phenomena is known as stagflation. Warren Buffet has similar concerns and has voiced them. Even with the decrease in the prices of a number of commodities the price for food at the store has not coem down that much. </p>
<p>2. I think hedge funds are down more than 20% and perhaps 30-40%. A number of them hav ese tup &#8220;side accounts&#8221; for illiquid investmetns that they can not sell in this current market. As the dust settles it wiillbecome evidnet that they have not properly marked those investments properly. They are basically putting the losses off until later which is exactly what the banks are doing. </p>
<p>3. I am not sure of Simon&#8217;s performance but I do know that hsi funds have lost app 17% of their assets under management. That decline is actual admirable. Forecasts by hedge fund research units indicate that the hedge fund industry as a whole may lose upwards of 50% of their assets from the peak set last June.</p>
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		<title>By: workingclass artist</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1056776</link>
		<dc:creator>workingclass artist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1056776</guid>
		<description>thanks LD...That is the plan and I&#039;m hoping she can earn that this summer. We will be working out a plan over the X-mas break...It&#039;s hard work but good training. Appreciate all you offer us at NQ...You Rock and congratulations on the radio show. YOur columns mean a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks LD&#8230;That is the plan and I&#8217;m hoping she can earn that this summer. We will be working out a plan over the X-mas break&#8230;It&#8217;s hard work but good training. Appreciate all you offer us at NQ&#8230;You Rock and congratulations on the radio show. YOur columns mean a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: LD</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1056741</link>
		<dc:creator>LD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1056741</guid>
		<description>Not necessarily. The hedge fund industry established itself for two reasons:

1. flight of personnel and human capital from Wall st. 

2. injection fo monetary capital from investors seeking outsized returns given the low rates of returns generated by bonds after the Fed decreased interest rates after 9/11 and the equity implosion following the collapse of the Nasdaq (internet bubble) at the turn of the century. 

I think we are entering a period where investors will want safety of principal and will actually not take enough risk. This is what occurs when a bubble deflates.  as time passes and peopel forget the lessosn learned during this cycle, we will likely once again repeat them but that won&#039;t be for a while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not necessarily. The hedge fund industry established itself for two reasons:</p>
<p>1. flight of personnel and human capital from Wall st. </p>
<p>2. injection fo monetary capital from investors seeking outsized returns given the low rates of returns generated by bonds after the Fed decreased interest rates after 9/11 and the equity implosion following the collapse of the Nasdaq (internet bubble) at the turn of the century. </p>
<p>I think we are entering a period where investors will want safety of principal and will actually not take enough risk. This is what occurs when a bubble deflates.  as time passes and peopel forget the lessosn learned during this cycle, we will likely once again repeat them but that won&#8217;t be for a while.</p>
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		<title>By: LD</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1056725</link>
		<dc:creator>LD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1056725</guid>
		<description>Working....I think the government will provide increaded funding for SLMA for a period of time. Ultimately though Uncle Sam can&#039;t be the sugar daddy for everybody and the private market will need to provide the capital and the pipelines for this sort of financing and other needs. I see those rates as being higher and credit being more reasonably &quot;rationed&quot;,  as in getting back to proper underwriting. 

I encourage her to work and save and if need be with a minimum shortfall she should approach the school to work out whatever shortfall may occur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Working&#8230;.I think the government will provide increaded funding for SLMA for a period of time. Ultimately though Uncle Sam can&#8217;t be the sugar daddy for everybody and the private market will need to provide the capital and the pipelines for this sort of financing and other needs. I see those rates as being higher and credit being more reasonably &#8220;rationed&#8221;,  as in getting back to proper underwriting. </p>
<p>I encourage her to work and save and if need be with a minimum shortfall she should approach the school to work out whatever shortfall may occur.</p>
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		<title>By: LD</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1056716</link>
		<dc:creator>LD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1056716</guid>
		<description>Ani, 

Believe me it is my pleasure. I enjoy the discourse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ani, </p>
<p>Believe me it is my pleasure. I enjoy the discourse.</p>
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		<title>By: LD</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1056686</link>
		<dc:creator>LD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1056686</guid>
		<description>Oowawa....Strictly a guess on my part, but I am guessing that they would pass into that great graveyard in the sky. While htese makes of autos have been the bedrock of our domestic auto landscape, they certainly would not be the first to suffer this fate. 

The dealers and suppliers for these makes obviously need to adapt QUICKLY or they may very well suffer the same fate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oowawa&#8230;.Strictly a guess on my part, but I am guessing that they would pass into that great graveyard in the sky. While htese makes of autos have been the bedrock of our domestic auto landscape, they certainly would not be the first to suffer this fate. </p>
<p>The dealers and suppliers for these makes obviously need to adapt QUICKLY or they may very well suffer the same fate.</p>
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		<title>By: mountainaires</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1056676</link>
		<dc:creator>mountainaires</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1056676</guid>
		<description>Ron--I think you&#039;re in for a big surprise if you think we&#039;re at the bottom of the bear market. This will be a deep and protracted &#039;recession&#039; [which of course will, in the end, be called a &#039;depression] which started in Dec/07-Jan/08, so it&#039;s already been longer than most previous mild recessions. We&#039;ve got another 2-3 years on this one. We have a huge glut of everything sitting out there, unemployment soaring, and the deleveraging and credit crisis has only just begun. Obama is, I think, making a good first step by creating jobs to deal with our infrastructure needs--because of course, we&#039;ll hopefully need that infrastructure one day in the distant future when this economy gets moving again; you can transport goods without infrastructure. But a couple of million jobs to re-build roads and bridges is one tiny ripple in a big ocean; will help keep us afloat for a while, until we can figure out how to swim, not sink. And, many thanks to Larry for bring LD and his insights. I really appreciate it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron&#8211;I think you&#8217;re in for a big surprise if you think we&#8217;re at the bottom of the bear market. This will be a deep and protracted &#8216;recession&#8217; [which of course will, in the end, be called a 'depression] which started in Dec/07-Jan/08, so it&#8217;s already been longer than most previous mild recessions. We&#8217;ve got another 2-3 years on this one. We have a huge glut of everything sitting out there, unemployment soaring, and the deleveraging and credit crisis has only just begun. Obama is, I think, making a good first step by creating jobs to deal with our infrastructure needs&#8211;because of course, we&#8217;ll hopefully need that infrastructure one day in the distant future when this economy gets moving again; you can transport goods without infrastructure. But a couple of million jobs to re-build roads and bridges is one tiny ripple in a big ocean; will help keep us afloat for a while, until we can figure out how to swim, not sink. And, many thanks to Larry for bring LD and his insights. I really appreciate it!</p>
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		<title>By: Linda C.</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1056526</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1056526</guid>
		<description>It is very bad and the bigwigs are using words like &quot;Deep Protracted Recession&quot;  and &quot;Deflationary Spiral&quot;. These are code words for a &quot;Depression&quot;.  If the Big Three come up with a &quot; Restructuring Package&quot; and not call it Bankruptcy, they will hope to head off another panic in the markets that happened the failure of Leehman Bros.

This is all about projecting confidence where there isn&#039;t any to be had.  Sort of like Obama&#039;s campaign.


It might be better to inject some capitol into business directly.  We have done it with the banks in order for them to lend, but they are still reluctant to do any lending.  There was a systematic world wide banking failure that caused the Great Depression because credit had ceased.  The governments are propping up the banks, but they are still not issuing credit.  In other words, we will have the same end result to the economy if we had simply let the banks fail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is very bad and the bigwigs are using words like &#8220;Deep Protracted Recession&#8221;  and &#8220;Deflationary Spiral&#8221;. These are code words for a &#8220;Depression&#8221;.  If the Big Three come up with a &#8221; Restructuring Package&#8221; and not call it Bankruptcy, they will hope to head off another panic in the markets that happened the failure of Leehman Bros.</p>
<p>This is all about projecting confidence where there isn&#8217;t any to be had.  Sort of like Obama&#8217;s campaign.</p>
<p>It might be better to inject some capitol into business directly.  We have done it with the banks in order for them to lend, but they are still reluctant to do any lending.  There was a systematic world wide banking failure that caused the Great Depression because credit had ceased.  The governments are propping up the banks, but they are still not issuing credit.  In other words, we will have the same end result to the economy if we had simply let the banks fail.</p>
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		<title>By: Lizzy</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1055597</link>
		<dc:creator>Lizzy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1055597</guid>
		<description>Great post, very informative. The information is discouraging though.  I feel like Chicken Little crying &quot;The sky is falling.&quot;  Don&#039;t know which is worse thinking about the economy or seeing too much of Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, very informative. The information is discouraging though.  I feel like Chicken Little crying &#8220;The sky is falling.&#8221;  Don&#8217;t know which is worse thinking about the economy or seeing too much of Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: pagar</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1055578</link>
		<dc:creator>pagar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1055578</guid>
		<description>Great article,LD.
One of the things I haven&#039;t heard mentioned much is that yesterday was options expiration Friday. It may have had some bearing on the last hours market movement.

I plan to wait till next week to get a better feel for market direction, but at this point in time, I expect to continue to buy only puts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article,LD.<br />
One of the things I haven&#8217;t heard mentioned much is that yesterday was options expiration Friday. It may have had some bearing on the last hours market movement.</p>
<p>I plan to wait till next week to get a better feel for market direction, but at this point in time, I expect to continue to buy only puts.</p>
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		<title>By: notrees</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1055292</link>
		<dc:creator>notrees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 21:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1055292</guid>
		<description>Honestly this all sounds like greek to me. good luck. LOL!:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly this all sounds like greek to me. good luck. LOL!:)</p>
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		<title>By: getfitnow</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1054424</link>
		<dc:creator>getfitnow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1054424</guid>
		<description>Let me join in on the &quot;thanks.&quot; I sure hope you&#039;ll be around through it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me join in on the &#8220;thanks.&#8221; I sure hope you&#8217;ll be around through it all.</p>
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		<title>By: William L. Donlon</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1054133</link>
		<dc:creator>William L. Donlon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1054133</guid>
		<description>Hadenough:

As awful as it may sound, I hope you are right.

We will be lucky to contain unemployment to 9% in 2009.

Unemployment may reach as high as 30% by next Xmas, things are moving that fast.

This is a &quot;World Economy&quot; fueled by instant communication and there is simply no real camparison to any past economic crisis.

Avoid the &quot;Sucker Bubbles&quot; like the one created today.

&quot;Real Players&quot; are sitting back waiting for any &quot;good news&quot; and then they dump big bucks to start a rally.

They are in and out early making a profit for the short term. The odds are stacked against you in this type of action.

It&#039;s how the &quot;Game&quot; is played in a Market that is downsizing. The &quot;smart&quot; guys take it from the &quot;dumb&quot; ones.

If you have cash, be patient and wait for the bottom ---- at around 5200.

Another great article LD.

Your performing a great service NQ &amp; Larry --- Thanks &amp; Keep it up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hadenough:</p>
<p>As awful as it may sound, I hope you are right.</p>
<p>We will be lucky to contain unemployment to 9% in 2009.</p>
<p>Unemployment may reach as high as 30% by next Xmas, things are moving that fast.</p>
<p>This is a &#8220;World Economy&#8221; fueled by instant communication and there is simply no real camparison to any past economic crisis.</p>
<p>Avoid the &#8220;Sucker Bubbles&#8221; like the one created today.</p>
<p>&#8220;Real Players&#8221; are sitting back waiting for any &#8220;good news&#8221; and then they dump big bucks to start a rally.</p>
<p>They are in and out early making a profit for the short term. The odds are stacked against you in this type of action.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s how the &#8220;Game&#8221; is played in a Market that is downsizing. The &#8220;smart&#8221; guys take it from the &#8220;dumb&#8221; ones.</p>
<p>If you have cash, be patient and wait for the bottom &#8212;- at around 5200.</p>
<p>Another great article LD.</p>
<p>Your performing a great service NQ &amp; Larry &#8212; Thanks &amp; Keep it up!</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/22/economicmarket-highlights-1121v-o-l-a-t-i-l-i-t-y/#comment-1053917</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=6770#comment-1053917</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re near the bottom in this market which means we&#039;re near the beginning of the next bull market. There are a lot of parallels between now and 1982 when we had a deep recession. When there&#039;s a secular bear market like this, there can be a decoupling of the stock market from the economy. That means the market will recover way before the economy does, often leading by 6 to 9 months. The market can be moving up even as earnings continue to decline. We&#039;re just about at that tipping point.

BTW, the ^VIX went down nicely today. It was up at record levels yesterday and that seems to suggest a reversal is close at hand. Friday&#039;s action was the proof of the pudding but the Timothy thing was the trigger.

Oh, and what I&#039;m saying is, this is the time to buy stocks. Some individual stocks could be lower later as earnings disappoint but this is a great time to buy a tech leader like AAPL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re near the bottom in this market which means we&#8217;re near the beginning of the next bull market. There are a lot of parallels between now and 1982 when we had a deep recession. When there&#8217;s a secular bear market like this, there can be a decoupling of the stock market from the economy. That means the market will recover way before the economy does, often leading by 6 to 9 months. The market can be moving up even as earnings continue to decline. We&#8217;re just about at that tipping point.</p>
<p>BTW, the ^VIX went down nicely today. It was up at record levels yesterday and that seems to suggest a reversal is close at hand. Friday&#8217;s action was the proof of the pudding but the Timothy thing was the trigger.</p>
<p>Oh, and what I&#8217;m saying is, this is the time to buy stocks. Some individual stocks could be lower later as earnings disappoint but this is a great time to buy a tech leader like AAPL.</p>
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