Cheaters Never Prosper? **UPDATED**
By Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy on December 2, 2008 at 9:30 AM in ACORN, Bamboozling, Barack Obama, DNC idiocy, Hoodwinking, Joe Biden, Obama's Thugs, Plagiarism, Voter Fraud
Uh, yeah, apparently they do. Obama is a major case in point. He only got to where he is now by cheating on a massive level, with the DNC both sanctioning and colluding in the cheating. A major avenue in which the cheating occurred was done so with the help of a number of young people through both caucus fraud and voter registration fraud (this has all been documented a hundred times, both here, and at a number of news sites. But in case you need a reminder, go to We Will Not Be Silenced for information on caucus fraud, and HERE for information on young people committing voter fraud). Many of us have been shocked by the levels of unrepentant cheating and fraud, though, it seems, we should not have been…
It seems that more and more students are cheating, according to a nationwide survey, and not just a few. According to the survey, almost 3 out of 4 (64%) of students admit to cheating on exams, about 4 out of 5 on homework, and more than 1/3 admit to cheating more than once.
More than a third plagiarized their papers, often from the internet. I might add, it wasn’t just in school that these behaviors were evident. No, about 1/3 also admitted to stealing from friends, parents, or a store. Kinda blows the educators’ whole excuse, um, I mean, THEORY, that students were cheating more because of higher expectations and university requirements (which does not seem to include ethical behavior). Uh, yeah. Wow.
And it isn’t just here in the US. According to a survey in the UK, half of the students at Cambridge admit to cheating, too. These students were most likely to plagiarize, with only 5% being caught at it. Just 5% caught at plagiarizing out of over 50%. Holy smokes.
Here’s the thing - Obama AND Biden are known plagiarizers. Some of you may recall that Biden actually had to drop out of a presidential campaign for failing to mention the author of a speech he gave once, though he did give credit to the others he used. Biden, though, also plagiarized papers while in law school (!!!!) too. It seems he was a serial plagiarizer. Back then, that actually seemed to matter to people. Sadly, not any more.
Obama’s instances of plagiarism are almost too numerous to mention, but here are just a couple(H/T to Big Head DC):
And this one:
I could go on and on. Feel free to do a search and you’ll see what I mean.
Anywho - our students have become a bunch of cheaters, both in and out of schools. Teachers are catching but a very, very few of them. I have to say, though, when university professors turn a blind eye to the plagiarism of their candidate (and his vice president), is it any wonder that students are getting away with rampant cheating? (I know, I know - too many students, too few teachers, the demands of “No Child Left Behind,” and all of that. But this did not happen overnight. And it isn’t just in overcrowded schools. It is systemic.)
Now, I’m not blaming it all on the teachers. Families and our society in general play a big role in this, well, moral decline is the phrase that comes to mind. This “win at all cost mentality” seems to have infiltrated our culture, and is just insidious. Cheating, lying, and stealing have become all too common, and all too accepted.
What is worse is that students are not learning the material (according to the article). I would suggest they are not learning how to study, or even how to think, as a consequence. As for the claim that the students are under pressure to meet university requirements, how does it help them to cheat if they make it to the universities, and don’t KNOW ANYTHING? All it does is bring down the quality of education in the universities by having to play catch-up in so many areas. Or having to tutor so many students because they don’t know how to study. And on it goes. The lack of real world consequences to the lying, cheating, and stealing does have wider ranging affects.
Certainly there have been none for the Obama camp. Quite the opposite, in fact. It doesn’t give me a lot of “hope” that things will “change” for the better anytime soon…Not only was Obama’s and the DNC’s actions excused, but there was downright glee at the actions of many of his young supporters actions to throw this election (and nomination) for Obama. And nary a word of reproach was heard from the Candidate/Nominee. Nope - and for good reason. Given his own actions, he was scarcely in a position to criticize the actions of those who helped to elect him.
We need some major changes in this country - in our schools, our families, our culture in general. This level of cheating - over HALF of our students - cannot continue, not without continuing degrading effects on our country, our schools, our very selves. Until people are held to a standard, and held accountable for their actions, I fear this trend will continue. And all of those students and young people who saw the positive result of their dirty work will just be inclined to continue it in the future. We are all at fault for allowing this to happen, and to continue unabated. To now cast away all of the unethical and immoral actions of the President Elect as old news is to condone those actions.
How is it that in just twenty short years we have gone from condemning actions like plagiarism in our candidates and running them out of the process to condoning it in our candidates? How does this happen?? I leave it to those more knowledgeable than I to debate and discuss the reasons, but I do know that until we take a stand, our country will continue down the path evidenced by our young people and president elect. I, for one, am not willing to stand by while this country tolerates, no, accepts, liars, cheaters, and thieves in our students, our culture, or in our leaders. That is not an option. Speaking out, speaking truth to power, not sweeping the past year under the rug and accepting that this is the “new politics” is what I will be doing. How about you?
UPDATE: The CEO of the organization that did the survey of 30,000 teens was on FOX News this morning. Here is the video:
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By Sarah Palin (Release date: November 17. 2009)
Plagiarism is a huge deal at top universities of all places. Our society is all about getting to the top by any means necessary rather than focusing on getting there through hard work, being a good person, or perseverance. Many of these students get to top universities by cheating so why stop now? Once people can get away with it they will do it over and over again. When they see their idols get to the top by using plagiarism, sexism, and betrayal without even recognizing it, you know that there is something fundamentally wrong with our culture. Until someone powerful like Obama or Joe Biden is humiliated on the national stage for things like plagiarism, expect to hear more excuses and more teachers turning a blind eye because they don’t want to be responsible for being labeled the bad guy for ruining someone’s chances of getting into a top school.
I live in Colorado and was teaching public high school seniors research writing at the time of the Ward Churchill episode.
Many, many of the professors were upset because they thought Churchill was being investigated because of his “nazi” comments about the victims of 9/11.
While it was true that his ridiculous essay was the springboard for the investigation, what finally brought him down was his outright neglect to follow correct research protocol. He plagiarized, cited himself, made up “facts,” etc.
The case disgusted me because in Colorado, everyone is expected to be a CU fan.
I had some experiences at CU that finally caused me to dropout of the doctoral program there. I would not have been proud of a degree in my area from that school. Only one other school in the state offers a doctorate in my field, but it is private and way too expensive.
When the Churchill episode was constantly in the news, I became disgusted at the university even more for the sloppy way Churchill had been raised up to the position he should have never achieved if the university had kept any eye for academic standards.
I was happy when the school decided to terminate him on the basis of his poor research standards.
I had been fighting the good fight. I was in a sort of mini-scandal myself at the public high school where I taught. My senior students were complaining to the principal that they should not have to follow my standards because none of the seniors in other teachers’ classes had to.
My principal was the daughter of an ex-English teacher from the old school. Her mother confirmed that I was doing it right, so she supported my efforts. I was able in some way–long story–to finally make some points about plagiarism and proper citation and using valid sources, etc., etc., to the other younger teachers–most of whom just didn’t know the stadards. They had never been held to them themselves.
I had to file a complaint in another incident against a sudent. I had proved that her “essay” was totally plagiarized from the internet. Her mother defended her by saying she had helped her daughter change a few words so it wasn’t in her mind plagiarism. When the daughter got a 0 on the paper and her grade was destroyed, the mother then defended her again for her reaction.
The daughter was so angry at me she followed me home one night to find my address. Then she passed fliers around the school advertising a kegger with $5 shots to be held at my house that weekend.
The school administration had found a flier and had enlisted the help of the police force to determine whose house it was as it was not in the school’s district. They notified the high school in the district where I live. It was not until the last minute that another student came to me to tell me what was going on. I had been oblivious. I was able to get police protection at my house that night, as a party in a home where the parents had left for the weekend in different high school area of our district had gotten out of control the week before and a girl had been killed by a stray gunshot.
This is all something that happened in areas where many of the students are from affluent families or, at least, middle class.
I dreaded grading papers because I spent hours and hours finding the plagiarism to prove it. Only a very few of my seniors did their own work and did a good job of it. I got tired of knowing that the other teachers talked about me behind my back because I was not as “popular” as they were.
I just got very tired of being one of the only teachers around trying to stem the tide, so to speak, of the laziness, cheating, plagiarizing. I retired early without my full retirement.
I miss the students I had who did their work, tried to learn, had very good parents and who had integrity. I do not miss the teachers who don’t do their jobs. I feel a sadness tinged with disgust for the teachers who grew up not knowing what their jobs should be because they were never taught standards themselves.
I am still very, very depressed by the election and the general public’s, the media’s, and the govenment’s lack of concern about the many problems with election fraud. It is so bad now, I do not have hope it will turn around.
Amy, your post is about my major concern about the state of our country–its lack of real concern over issues of ethics, honesty, integrity, and doing the right thing.
The ends do not justify the means.
thank you for sharing your story and I commend you for trying. There are other teachers like you that feel the same frustration. Hell, I get frustrated just at work because managers do nothing when employees talk on their cell phones, take long lunches and basically don’t do squat.
Thank you, Diana, for sharing your experience with us. I remember my younger brother telling me when he was doing doctoral work in English Lit that if he gave a student the grade they DESERVED, the student, and often the student’s PARENTS, would contact the DEAN of the department demanding the grade be changed. Doonesbury was running an entire series at that time abt parents/students demanding grades they did not achieve.
I know I experienced it way back when I was in high school - in Honors History. There were a bunch of football players in the class, and the teacher wanted them to like them. They got away with anything and everything, while some of us actually did our own work.
It is a sad commentary on our society when parents would rather their children cheat to get ahead rather than work hard for it. And those who DO work hard often, as I said above, get passed over. There seems to be no concept of honor anymore - just do whatever it takes to get what you want. Sadly, as this election has highlighted, that too often works…
Great comments, y’all. Thanks for your thoughtful responses! And thanks to those of you who speak from your experience as teachers trying to do the right thing. If you get a chance to go back and watch the video I added, one of the truly sad commentaries is the LOW number of students actually disciplined…
Thank heavens there are students like Wodiej who refuse to cheat to get ahead, especially when pressured to do so.
Your new video highlights the very issue and problem RRRA. Bill Hemmer essentially condones cheating with his blind-eye approach. I don’t want to see it and I don’t think it is that bad therefore it does not exist. More coddleling children to our nation’s detriment!
Great post RRRS. Am glad you wrote about this. And there is also great debate and comments posted here.
I am right there with ya, Bert. I was surprised that Bill was so unwilling to acknowledge the depth and breadth of this issue. And I do NOT think it was as bad when I was growing up. I do know that if someone DID cheat, there were definite consequences to their actions. Not so anymore, especially as some of the teachers here acknowledged - they are the ones who get attacked if they try to set boundaries of honesty and decency.
When my daughter was in 8th grade and struggling to find a Science Fair project she could sink her teeth into…I placed an article about research Myth or Fact that happened to site one of her favorite Artists Kandinsky…She resisted because I was y’know the enemy ( a parent )….I said read it and see what you think.
Her subject was on Synesthesia ( blending of senses, Kandinsky claimed he could Hear colors)
She conducted experiments of her own design and researched and wrote a KICKASS paper…Her teacher accused her of cheating and getting me to write the paper…I tore her a New one !!! And then I said to the teacher…Ask her about it…See how much she knows ( By then the kid was a veritable expert she was so absorbed in the idea of it…)
The teacher took up the challenge and apologized…And the kid won the Science Fair at her school…I think the teacher became a better teacher and I know how the whole thing even though painful benefited my kid…She has been encouraged to study philosophy…including ethics…
Thanks for sharing your story, Diana L. C. I’ve been saying over and over, the ends do not justify the means. I hope everyone who is cheering Obama on, who is overlooking the means by which he attained his position, who says that we should support him and give him a chance, reads this post and understands that by letting “bygones be bygones”, by forgiving his actions, we are teaching our children that cheating IS okay. How can good teachers like you uphold the basic standards of truth and honesty when we have a POTUS who represents the opposite, and is rewarded for doing so?
Diana, L.C.,
Wow!
Just WOW!
But this caught my eye:
Our society goes in circles, going all-out to condemn government and its bloated bureaurcracies, but the root of the problem is the parents.
As long as parents defend the shocking actions of their children, as long as they don’t set standards within their own homes, our society will continue to spawn generations of young people without ethics and morality.
Certainly 0bama has set a poor example, but sorry, this has been going on for years. Pin the collar on this donkey if you want since his election personifies the problem, but we’ve been heading in a horrible direction with regard to our youth and educational system for decades. And it’s all tied to our obsessive materialism and consumerism.
Sure, we all want things. We all want to live as well as we can. I don’t have a problem with that. But let’s face it, we’ve structured a society that encourages unbridled greed, rewards cheating and worships wealthy and celebrity in ungodly proportion.
This will end when individuals make a commitment in their own personal lives to be better. Parents have to help kids learn the exhilaration that comes effort and the joy when a goal is achieved. And parents have to start holding teachers accountable to supporting these aims, instead of looking to feed their egos on the successes and adulations of their offspring.
I have to confess, I’ve never felt more alone and depressed in my life.
Oh, Mimi, me too.
I was wondering how so many students get away with stealing work done by others.
Apparently most teachers don’t care or don’t have the time to determine if the work handed in is the efforts of the students or from the Internet etc.
Sad — and then these college graduate will get a job and expect to . . . be President someday.
I expect that if we were to examine Obama’s college papers we would find very little of his original writing — probably just lots of words he stole from others and presented the papers as his own work.
My assumption of anything “written” by Obama in collegs is based on how he has passed of others work as his own during his campaign — and stole whole position papers from Hillary Clinton and others.
So the students who really make the effort — they can look forward to a life time of supporting the lazy slobs who can’t be bothered to LEARN or WORK while they are in college.
Cheater and liars —
The only way around this is to test using essays written during the class. The topic of the essay is only revealed at the beginning of the class. I ALWAYS did well with these tests — because I had done the reading and knew the material — I NEVER cheated.
Did I mention that I hate cheaters?
thank you for a very important and well written post Amy.
This makes sense in alot of ways. First the Obama bots that say they went to college. That doesn’t mean squat anymore because many cheat so anyone can get a college degree. Doesn’t mean you learned anything except how to cheat of course.
School/test score requirements my ass. If you want to make the grade, you work hard and do the homework PERIOD. I go to a christian school but it goes on there too. A roommate of a friend of mine told me her and other students keep track of the classes they’re in. If one of them has already completed it, they pass their homework onto the others and just change a few words. She asked me the other day if she could have my homework from a class I just took-I said NO, THAT’S CHEATING AND PLAGERISM. She just looked at me like what is my problem? They think it’s ok!
Its sad that its happening all over. No more honour or truth. Anything to get ahead. Thats why we are starting to lag behind other countries in almost all spheres of life. True innovation and discovery requires an acute application of mind. With cheaters leading this country, its always style over substance. A very slippery slope…..
“Thats why we are starting to lag behind other countries……..”
You are so right benny. It is also why we have CEO’s and Congress cheating for economic gain and why America is in this financial chaos. It is all the same thing.
Even when teachers have tried to stem the tide they are often stopped or worse yet, fired. One example from a few year sago is Piper Kansas about 20 miles west of Kansas City, Kansas. See link below for full story. That case was one of the saddest days in American education as far as I am concerned. Not only did the students cheat, but the Board of Education and members of the community condoned it, while the teacher resigned in protest. A few others did as well.
In my day, if you were caught cheating you flunked the course and had to repeat it.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F06E1DE143FF937A25751C0A9649C8B63
SAD!! SAD!!! SAD!!!!
right…in our city, it’s called “social promotion.” Flunk the class, you still go on to the next grade w your friends. Because we all know, friends in high school is more important than getting an education. Then they get ready to graduate and don’t have enough credits so they drop out. So they taught them it’s more important to have friends in high school than learn!!
Parents defending their kids are the worst culprits. If I would have done any of the things people are posting about on here, my mom would have let the school punish me and then she would have given me double at home.
Thank you for turning them down. The Professors probably know it. The problem is the Administration.
I was a Professor for a year once. Coming from an industry, rather than Academia, I didn’t know the rules. One day a student came to me with clear proof that a fellow student cheated by taking their project completely off the internet. Outraged, I exposed him in the class and threw him out. Then I heard from my Dean who seemed embarrassed by my actions. He seemed shocked and told me the consequences.
Apparently, my class was required to pass the course. This student had been at this school for TEN YEARS!!!! (who knew?) and his parents, who had been supporting him this whole time, hearing that he had been thrown out, threw him out so he was now sleeping in his car in the school parking lot. He threw himself on the mercy of the Administration who decided that it was all my fault.
I decided to go back to the real world where things like Copyright Infringement can have real consequences, and there are no softhearted Administrators to protect you from the consequences of breaking the law. The kid went back to College as soon as I left and, for all I know, is still there. And you wonder why kids have no respect for ethical behavior?
The dumbing down of America continues.
Those of us with at least half a brain are becoming the minority. I’d say then we should start screaming discrimination and it is time for us to have a POTUS that represents us. That will be the only way to pay reparations for stupidity. The Government has been torturing us intelligent folks for too many years now and it is time to put an end to it!
I want a POTUS and I want one with a brain and not a brain that has been on drugs. We are the minority and deserve to finally be represented. 2012, let’s run the intelligent candidate and demand our time. It is change I am waiting for. Smart Government.
Try being the teacher who catches the students cheating. Parents are immediately in your face, the principal makes you give the student “another chance”, and the school committee (made up of parents) suggests that we are pressuring our students too much. I suggested that a science fair project had already been submitted by an older sibling. The mom told me she kept three science fair projects in the closet and cycled them through her six kids. She said that if I could remember science fair projects from six years ago, I needed to “get a life”.
It is very difficult for teachers to punish students for plagiarism. Usually, if the student is caught, they are given another chance to rewrite the paper. I doubt most students are flunked. But in a way I agree because that one student was just unlucky and it’s kind of unfair when one student’s chances at getting into a good college or a good job is ruined when more than half of his or her classmates are doing the same thing and getting away with it. The problem is so widespread and out of control that it will be harder to punish anyone until our leaders are punished for plagiarizing instead of given a slap on the wrist and still allowed to become president or vice president of the United States.
Sorry. I disagree. When I was a kid it never mattered to my parents when I told them “but everyone is doing it” - in fact they would get angry that I missed the point. Try it on a cop when you get a speeding ticket.
We are all responsible for our own actions.
I disagree also. When I tried this excuse w my parents they would always say, all you need to worry about is what you do not anyone else. They will have to answer for their own actions. Besides, if one person gets caught and other students know about it, it might make some think twice about cheating.
I think it’s a teacher’s job to hold every student accountable and not just make an example out of one unlucky student who is “caught”. If 50% of the class is cheating and plagiarizing, there is a huge problem with the system and the teachers who haven’t put in the effort to check whether each paper isn’t plagiarized. It’s not hard. We have google and I’ve heard of software programs that help teachers process papers to check for plagiarism. If I’m a slacker kid who doesn’t do work, I’ll take my chances if only 1 out of 30 students gets caught cheating. There is no lesson learned until every student is punished, there is a zero tolerance policy implemented, and our nation’s leaders are held to the same standards as students who are caught and punished. If a student must receive a failing grade, why should Obama get away with something even worse with the progressive community and Democratic leaders defending him?
So much for children creating their own project and learning from it, which is the PURPOSE of science fairs. Just have socialistic mommy create three projects and share among all.
nice…part of this is just plain LAZY ASS PARENTS who don’t want to bother helping their kids. So they just make excuses, blame the teacher, school whoever, as long as they don’t have to make an effort.
Hmmmm…My kid was accused of cheating because she wrote an incredible paper well beyond her years because she found a topic she fell in love with…A good teacher can always tell because if the kid cheats they simply don’t know material…The teacher apologized after she talked to my kid and realized that her paper included only fraction of what she had waned to include…It is a tricky issue no doubt about it. My kid took pride in her HONOR…and discovered at this age ( 8th grade ) that she is a really good writer and when need be a good researcher…She is a big proponent of copywrites and as playwrite and young film maker admonishes some of her peers for stealing through bootlegging…She’s even lectured adults..chuckle…It’s about the erosion of ETHICS in our society…Pure and simple…
Hi fellow working class artist. My son took creative writing at UCSB and was given an assignment to write in the style of Kerouac. He’s very good at that, and only when he did a second assignment in the style of another writer did the teacher stop believing that my son hadn’t found a genuine Kerouac work.
Glad your daughter lectures about Copyright. No one seems to understand that stealing intellectual property is like stealing from someone’s house.
Edgar Allen Poe never made any money from The Raven although it was reprinted everywhere pre-copyright.
Hey Ellen…Fun having genius kids isn’t it…and a little scary…or at least humbling…chuckle…
This attitude extends into business as well. No matter what kind of crap you sell, no matter how many laws you break (as long as you get away with it), as long as you make more money in the end everything is fine. Ecch!
It’s all tied together, the cheating at school, the lack of parental discipline, the feeling of “entitlement” that students display… it’s all one big package, and the finger of blame points in one single direction >>>>> PARENTS.
If the kids get bad grades, the parents, if they react at all, tend to blame the teachers. If the teachers have kids failing, they are penalized in their careers by lack of promotion or raises, or in some cases dismissal. But if the teachers try to crack down on the students, they get in trouble with the parents!
Until the last generation or two, when kids took home bad grades, the parents enforced remedial steps, took away privileges until grades improved, or asked to meet with teachers to ask their advice and get the truth about how their kids were performing in school. Nowadays, the parents blame the teachers instead.
And as for cheating, it used to be an automatic F or even expulsion from school. But the teachers don’t dare, for fear of the parents. This is exacerbated by the No Child Left Behind law, but the problem existed before that law.
If you are a teacher, and half your students are either cheating or failing, you have two choices: flunk them or tolerate it. If you flunk half the class, the school administrators take the position that the teacher can’t control the class, and is ineffective as a teacher.
School officials have become a bunch of wimps, cowed into submission by parents who tolerate cheating by their kids “because they all do it.” If the parents won’t discipline their kids for dishonesty or poor performance, the teachers have very little ammunition to threaten the students.
With today’s search engines, including for internal databases at schools, it should be easy to catch plagierizers. But what would the schools do if they caught them? Especially if the numbers go as far as half the class being guilty?
I’ll tell you what they should do. They should give the automatic F on the first count, 3-day suspension for the second count, and flunk or expel them for the third count. If parents complain, the schools should back up their teachers and tell the parents that dishonesty is no longer tolerated.
And if the parents complain or threaten to go to the school board, administrators should just show them the evidence and say, “I look forward to seeing you at the school board, then!”
I’m sorry, anytime you say it’s all the parents, you lose my support. While caring, concerned and principled parents make a big impact so does society and the peer group. Teachers teach as much when they allow flagrant cheating as parents do when they make a point about individual honor. I tell my children that they write the book others will read about their character by their actions not their words. Never do anything you would be ashamed to have said about you etc.
One day in the middle of a discussion about how to handle a situation my son interjected “but Mom you are the only one who talks about honor. My friends would laugh at me”. His brother who was listening agreed. I told them that was their friend loss because all you have in the end is your honor and it should be the dearest thing you possess.
We as a Nation lost so much during Clinton’s presidency. When the leader of the country lies, purgers himself and defends himself by saying it depends on the meaning of is the entire country is affected. How do you hold children accountable in the face of the behavior of our President. Did he put his duty first? Was he a man of honor? Do we as a society praise men of honor or do we condemn them as fools? What about the global warming fake crisis where science and statistics have been twisted and falsified- are we debunking it or still trying to ride that horse to political gain?
We need to clean up our collective act and start telling the truth, spending within our means and not allowing people to win by cheating, at home, at school, at work, in business and most of all in politics. We need a small government that is answerable and accountable. If we straighten our house from above we will have better success with individual accountability.
Bill lied about sex; GWB stole our democracy. Obama is the sequel to GWB.
And global warming is not a fake crisis.
JGalt,
Who is John Galt.
Yes it assuredly is.
http://www.gazette.com/opinion/global_44177___article.html/warming_temperatures.html
This is only one of many articles. Most mainstream scientists have been saying for years that the theory didn’t make sense and didn’t match the facts in the real world. For the last two years temperatures have decreased and temperatures have not risen for several years before that. This is a pseudo crisis which threatens to ruin the global economy and the measures proposed will not work and will disproportionally effect the poor. The ethanol mandates alone have had a staggering effect on the world’s food supply. The global warming gurus are spinning as fast as they can but they have been caught falsifying data, lying about it and making up events to try and explain away their mistakes, such as record hot temperatures that never occurred. Time to get quietly off that bus. If we have global cooling and the next mini ice age as most mainstream scientists predict we will need the greenhouse gases as a blanket.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2142375/posts
Just one more article from today!
http://astuteblogger.blogspot.com/
Another one of many erudite articles debunking global warming.
What are you talking about? Bush 1 was having a long term affair but he was never raked across the coals like Bill was. And just for giggles google up Jeff Gannon aka James Guckert or Militarystud.com. Why haven’t you heard about him? Your sex life is not my business nor is Bill’s.
Point is not the affair, although I resent him having it in the oval office and not taking phone calls from our generals because he was engaged.
Point is lying under oath, repeatedly.
Hmmmm…Is it plagiarizing if Obama is simply part of the Axelrod Franchise of political hacks…chuckle…maybe it’s a Brand thingy…
Good article Rev. Amy…Rouse the Rabble…
Amy, I share your frustration, and I have no answer for the problem.
Integrity!
Is it ingrained or taught?
For me, I would never give up when I was stumped on homework…I needed to work it out and comprehend it myself!
Of course, I have been labeled as a perfectionist…not so however, I just want to be comfortable with my style.
Integrity!
Is it ingrained or taught?
A little of both. Most recent research has it that while a child is born with certain ingrained personality traits (for instance shyness)those traits become stronger or weaker depending on parental style.
I belive and think on this issue that honesty and integrity can be taught. It is also a function of religion and spirituality. How well the lessons takes is a function of the child’s personality. But it is also a function of how much it is tolerated. When the culture and the community do not strongly condemn dishonesty it becomes too prevelant in the society and will ultimately bring that society down.
So bottom line, it must be taught at home, and within whatever religion people practice and it cannot be tolerated by society at large.
Interesting question.
Our daughter was three when we moved to the US. When she went to school she was put in Junior Kindergarten (I know - they thought she was older because she could read).
One day we were called in because she was in trouble and found her sitting in the Principal’s office. Apparently the teacher was punishing the class and she refused to be punished.
She told us that the teacher left the room and told them all not to talk while she was away. When she came back, she heard talking and punished the whole class. My daughter said that she and some others weren’t talking, that it was unfair, and refused to accept punishment.
I don’t know how much we could have influenced her by three years old.
Many, if not most, lessons of this nature are learned by the age of five. Children watch and copy what they see adults doing. It is that simple.
I got in trouble for the same thing at a young age! I didn’t do the crime and I wasn’t about to apologize nor accept punishment.
A few years later — still in grade school we learned that adults lie on purpose. Such was our introduction to the military speak of adults. We learned that the military almost always lies — little lies and sometimes the truth is mixed with the lies.
That was our introduction to the military culture — 5th grade.
Lovely article RRRAmy! You know I also think integrity and honor are learned from films/television/books. I grew up in the age of Father Knows Best, Donna Reed, Leave It To Beaver, Fury, Roy Rogers, etc. etc., and there were always consequences if you lied or cheated or stole. It became an engrained way of being because it was role modeled in everything I read and watched. It was reinforced at school and my parents always had their little favorite which I’m sure most parents used: If everyone jumped off the roof would you jump off too?
IQ test scores peaked around 1965; they’ve been going down ever since. College today is the equivalent of high school, or lower, compared to the 60’s when they actually flunked students out and gave C’s, D’s, and F’s. Can’t do it anymore; students complain and file charges against professors.
The moral breakdown of the fiber of our society has been gradually taking place since the 60’s. We no longer have set standards; might discriminate against someone. This is part of the socialist agenda: to break down our moral fabric, to create chaos in our society.
I worked for the McCain/Palin campaign. I met many conservative Repubicans and conservative Christians in the campaign office. I gained an appreciation for them and their role in society. They are the anchor that holds the ship of state steady. I do not agree with them on most of the social issues, but I understand the value of their postions. They allow people such as myself to experiment and lead an unconventional life.
They are being marginalized and that is not good. I hope those of us who forged friendships with the conservatives during this past campaign season will continue to look for ways to join together with common purpose for goals we do agree on.
Right now, the Obama birth certificate lawsuits are one issue that the conservatives are just as intensely working on as us. So, that is one issue we can join together on. I also continue to pray, which I know they do too; our prayers may be voiced in different terminology and faiths, but it is also something that I believe, along with my conservative friends, can affect change on our planet.
I’m not a conservative, but I agree with you. Conservatives are demonized for various reasons. White, rich, christian, racist, bigoted…..the list goes on and on. That is bad for the future of this nation. I know many conservatives who are just surviving, and they are one of the kindest people I know. I disagree with them, but their kindness and acceptance overcomes my hesitance.
Many rich conservatives work their bu**s off to reach the position that they are in now. To demonize someone for the beliefs and views that they hold is itself bigotry.
thank you, well said. I am a middle of the road person. I agree w some issues on both sides. I was brought up in a home where knowing the difference between right and wrong is fundamental. My parents believed in God and taught me to as well. Although I rarely go to church, I pray every day and I live my life w integrity and faith in a higher power. I think that is a big missing piece for alot of people otherwise cheating and dishonesty would not be such a problem.
Great comments Puma For Life. I just found out how conservative I am. I never thought so, but what I have seen this country become due to the radical left and their hideous agenda, has broken my heart. What made America what it is has a lot to do with the hard working, moral, responsible middle of this country whose integrity has always made me proud. Because of the left people are allowed to do, say and act any way they choose, with ZERO repercussions. I am so angry and the wing nuts for destroying the moral fiber of this country and I will personally dedicate my life, money and time, whatever, to get this country to swing back to some normal decency in 2010 when we have the chance to douche the scum in Congress, and then in 2012 when we can elect someone with a moral backbone, rather than watch the DNC, Dems and Obama Campaign commit the most disgraceful acts of fraud in this country’s history. Yes, Galt, if you are there…this is THE worst I have seen it. THE WORST. And most of my friends with brains feel the same way. And my family. I pray that what we have witnessed, and the destruction of more values by Fraudbama, gets voters thinking about the America we choose to live in. It’s becoming a sewer because of the left. Sorry, it is.
OIAF,
The fact that RRRA, you and Benny and so many others here today are saying this finally gives me reason to speak again.
I’ve been unable to escape the idea that there has to be a distinct relationship between a nation’s overall moral code and its success/longevity. It has never been a case in America where we could claim to be more “moral” than other places but in the past, we were always able to say that our course had that objective in mind.
When I was a boy I watched the Lone Ranger. (No, I don’t give a damn that Tonto got the shitty end. He was also never forgotten or left behind. Write a paper…)
The point of The Lone Ranger is this… He had a code, or Creed that he lived by and he told all us kids what it was.
The Lone Ranger’s Creed
1. I believe that to have a friend, a man must be one.
2. That all men are created equal and that everyone has within himself the power to make this a better world.
3. That God put the firewood there, but that every man must gather and light it himself.
4. In being prepared physically, mentally, and morally to fight when necessary for that which is right.
5. That a man should make the most of what equipment he has.
6. That “this government, of the people, by the people, and for the people,” shall live always.
7. That men should live by the rule of what is best for the greatest number.
8. That sooner or later… somewhere… somehow… we must settle with the world and make payment for what we have taken.
9. That all things change, but the truth, and the truth alone lives on forever.
10. I believe in my Creator, my country, my fellow man.
If any of you ever really wondered or gave a darn what Zeke’s ideals were, there ya go. My own personal flaws have set me against myself more than I ever wanted but that code and what was deeper in its origins is what I truly have believed all my life.
If lies and cheating are now the fiber we use to weave the fabric of this nation, the cloth will end up looking like the losing brand in a Bounty commercial.
Thanks Puma4life…a thoughtful response…I appreciate that…This election has opened my eyes to all sorts of things…including the conservatives…
Workingclassartist……I wanted to write this last weekend on the auto bailout thread, and tried, but that thread was not working properly and my remarks would not go through.
I appreciate you and am amazed at all your sacrifices, especially for your child. God bless.
Also, like you this election has opened my eyes too.
Thanks Bert…I guess they never seemed like sacrifices to me…Just priorities or perhaps an investment in her…I’ve been lucky because I knew my limitations and got lots of help on good influences for her. Best thng I ever did was keep her in Catholic School until she was ready to try for the Arts Magnet Public School which in our town is small and a Privalege to attend…You must audition to show commitment as well as talent…
The reason kids take stuff for granted is because often they don’t know better imho…
I sought Catholic School for her because of what a student in Grad school told me when I asked her what was the best thing she got out of Catholic School…Her answer…They taught her to love and respect her family…And this was an independent Amazon Sculptor from Pittsburgh…I was impressed and today I think it paid off…and will continue to for my kid…
Interesting, wca. I went to 12 years of all girl Catholic school. In addition to learning integrity and honesty, it was a damn good education on the basics of reading, writing, and mathmatics, and social studies.
even the most virulent anti-catholic former Catholic School Student admits…chuckle…the value of the education. A tried and true method for over a hundred years…Teaching kids how to become scholars for life from Pre K through College. Not popular or feel goody…But extremely effective…No Doubt about it.
( And the colleges love these kids..over 80% of her fellow class mates at this small and poorest in the Parish little school are at College on scholarships…Not a bad average…)
lol, I talked about “Cheaters Never Prosper? ….but I guess they do now” on my myspace right after the election.
It’s amazing how regular Americans are held to a higher standard than Presidential candidates.
1. Any bot can clearly see that Obama copied Patrick’s words in that video. The man they thought was soooo inspiring, sooo original has been proven to be a copycat that makes what they think is a great speech. Plagiarizers get kicked out of universities but given a pass in politics.
2. References - When we want a job, we have to provide numerous references, they can’t come from family members or our spouse. The potential employer wants their name, phone number, what they do for a living etc. The people who would give Obama a reference are pretty bizarre. Regular people can’t be associated with domestic terrorists, or “preachers” that blame Americans for 9/11, and still get the job.
3. Documents - We couldn’t get a job if our place of birth, official birth certificate was in question either. We also need to provide our college transcripts to get state jobs now!! It’s a requirement for some depts now, to crack down on all of those people lying about having a degree, but Presidential candidates like Obama, will once again get a free pass.
Shady references, faulty documentation, sealed records, and he still got the job.
Amy: is that We Will Not Be Silenced link the right one? It took me to a generic web site about various topics, and I’m not sure where I was supposed to look for fraud info. Thanks.
No surprise about the cheating. When the examples that are set are so corrupt, children and young adults follow. Even now, when I mention all the facts about the fraud that BO used to ‘win’, every person responds, “They ALL do that!” When did it become ok to violate our most fundamental principles of democracy? Nixon suffered the consequences, but Pelosi declared that “impeachment was off the table” for Bush & Co, and now Obama is keeping those expanded powers in place for “flexibility.” Everything is relative and justifiable now. There is no accountability. When asked how he could insult and demean HRC’s foreign policy experience during the campaign (even though he has NONE himself), and then choose her to be SOS, he brushed it off as campaign rhetoric. In other words, he was LYING, and “saying anything to win,” as he repeatedly accused her of doing. Standards are gone, and as long as you can get away with it, and selfishly grab for power, wealth, and fame–hey man, it’s the American Dream! Personally, I am disgusted and shocked. I feel like Chicken Little, running around proclaiming that the sky is falling, and few people care.
Thanks, fif - it’s fixed now!
I can’t believe Obama blew that off. SO many of his followers believed him when he said that crap abt Clinton. My own brother repeated back some of the crapola Obama said abt her lack of foreign policy experience.
And I hear you - it isn’t being Chicken Little if it is true, right??
My own brother, a very intelligent guy but he only gets his news from the NY Times and the New Yorker, yelled at me that “OBAMA VOTED AGAINST THE WAR & HRC VOTED FOR IT–SO IT’S ON HER HANDS!” When I pointed out that he was only proving my point about the corrosive effects of propaganda (since Obama did NOT vote against the war), he insisted that he did. Another old friend, also very intelligent, screamed at me: “SHE’S A LIAR!” re: the Bosnia gaffe. When I pointed out a long list of Obama lies, she refused to listen. It really irks me that Craig & Rice are in the administration considering that they zealously attacked HRC’s foreign policy cred, while all these people–Obama especially–promoted a complete novice with NO experience at all. They had to destroy her to make his supposedly “superior judgment” a reason to vote for him, because he had nothing else. Oh, except his super-dupercalifragilistic speeches!! It’s all a farce.
It was a sad election.
What was worse was it was even sadder after as many responded with ” So what the Republicans cheated, so the Democrats cheated to win too!”
Ultimately, though, they still have to face those who didn’t cheat, those who didn’t HAVE to cheat.
They have more to lose, though, and the fall is harder.
But they still fall, still unable to compete, I think of Karl Rove (Obama, too).
It’s only a matter of when.
In the interim, though, without TPTB demanding more, they harm the country, because they can’t compete internationally.
Hopefully, we will see a move away from this sort of garbage, with an emphasis on undoing the damage of the last forty years.
Hillary didn’t cheat and she won the primary only to be stolen from her right in fornt of our eyes!
Thank you RRR Amy. Cheating is a major problem these days. What is the point of it, really? I think cheating is a character flaw. If someone cheats for grades they end-up with nothing—not the knowledge they would have gained or the satisfaction they would have gotten knowing they EARNED the grade. Cheating the way Obama did comes out to the same thing. He didn’t really earn the nomination. He knows that, but it doesn’t matter to him. It was just a means to an end. I do hope that somewhere inside himself it eats at him that even though he raised scandelous amounts of money (illegally) and used every underhanded trick in the book to get where he’s at, he still only won by the skin of his teeth. There was no landslide like the MSM predicted.
The brain is not fully developed until a person is in their early twenties. Therefore, they can’t see the long-term effects/consequences of decisions they make before then. All those young people who voted for Obama can’t even see what a bad decision it was. Also, most of them are completely ignorant of how government works or about the history of this country. You don’t vote for someone because you think they are “cool.” Americans should have to take a test in order to vote. That would have weeded-out a significant portion of the people that voted for Obama.
I was glad to see this story because it is such an important topic! Our itellectual capital is declining in our country, and without people who can really think and do we will eventually fall. It will come slowly, gently, and we will just start sinking and wonder why.
As a university professor for more years than I care to admit, I have seen it all in many forms. There are things teachers can do to minimize cheating, but it takes a lot of extra time and effort (and that subtracts from the time we can devote to honest students who deserve everything we can give them).
Many educators handle the plagiarism problem in a way that is ultimately destructive. They don’t assign writing projects at all! Multiple choice exams only. You can see where that goes–graduating kids who cannot write a thought out but might be able to fill in a bubble correctly (if they didn’t cheat, that is). How many of the world’s problems will be solved by filling in a bubble?
Sigh, I could go on, but all of you who say something has to change are right. And yet what do we tell young people about the benefits of honesty when they see cheaters winning?
Thanks so much for your comments. Those of you on the front lines don’t need me to tell you how problematic this is. The attitudes of the young people during this election say it all. But it isn’t just there, of course, it is this rampant sense of entitlement - if they want it, they will get it, by hook or by crook (like the 80% who admitted stealing from a store in the past year - HOLY COW!!!!!).
And OIAF, thanks - I got it fixed. I’ll be bopping over there to leave an address for you, too! THANKS!
Don’t get me going about the multiple choice, fill-in-the blank assignments. They have their place, but many young teachers do use them exclusively. We have grading machines that can grade a set of answer sheets with bubbles filled in in just seconds. It frees the evening for free time. However, writing, using language to express your thouhts and expand your thinking cannot be learned by filling in the bubbles.
But it’s great for the teachers who really didn’t want to teach and who “earned” their contract by coaching instead–a much more exciting way to “teach.”
My intro to American value system was the honor code at UVA when I was a student. I tried to institute that in all my classes as a Univ. Professor elsewhere. On a larger front, honor code is a unique American concept that has eroded in value as we saw in those caucus frauds. It makes me very sad because building back trust and reputation is close to impossible once they are lost — what happened in the caucuses this primary or GE has to be a wake up call for all parents. But America right now seems to be good at sweeping all things embarrassing about the election under the rug. If they don’t acknowledge it, it does not exist.
RRRAmy…I luv ya…thanks for the link to our film, again. However, it’s missing an “l” so it’s not going to our page. You have http://www.wewilnotbesilenced2008.com FYI.
Please remember to go to our email addie and leave a place I can send you copies of the new version. Big Hugs. B
Amy, you might to update your article. You wrote
According to the survey, almost 3 out of 4 (64%) of students admit to cheating on exams,
but, according to the link, it was “3 out of 5“. (The link didn’t have the exact percentage in the written article so I’m not sure where that number came from. But, I would note that 64% is hardly “3 out of 4″; it’s much closer to “2 out of 3″–67%. I don’t really hold you accountable, though. If the actual percentage is 64%, then the original article’s “almost 3 out of 5″ is equally incorrect as written; it would be better to have been “a little more than or just over 3 out of 5″.)
Thanks Joze - I’m claiming this cold I have made my brain fuzzy, but I agree, 2 out of 3 makes more sense. But to keep it consistent with the story, I’ll change it to 4 out of 5.
And NC Girl, you are spot on abt the part of the brain not being fully formed until the early twenties as the one which controls decision making. Great comment!
Voting age used to be 21. It was lowered to 18 based on the logic that if you are old enough to fight in a war then you are old enough to vote. As usual, there was a reason the voting age was 21; no brain at 18. Same with drivers licenses. They should up the age to at least 18. People today mature at a much later age. I’m all for raising the voting age back to 21.
I’m all for changing the voting age back to 21 too.
Isn’t it odd that this decline seems to have begun about the time of the “Great Society”.
When government provides everything you need, it can take everything you have. I don’t know if I quoted that correctly, but I do have those thoughts on occasion.
The biggest empirical evidence for that survey is this election. Period.
Obama lied and lied but everybody gave him a pass;
He flip-flopped again and again but nobody challenged him; His performance on all aspects were mediocre but people showered him with money and adulation he did not deserve. His supporters lied, cheated, and stole but nobody brought it to light — those of us who tried were ridiculed and shoved to the side. In the end what did they get? Did they get their transformational leader that they went to so great a length to select and anoint? NO, they got a dirty little politician from Chicago who is now ducking for cover with all people Clinton whose administration he ridiculed and vilified enough to generate hate among his supporters.
Rev, you did not get the memo? “The ends always justify the means” to the ego and greed monsters surrounding us. When we allow this to go unchecked and flourish, it opens the door for the next group to seize power. Try this:
The first group seizes power via somewhat nefarious means. The second group expands on this pushing the envelope even farther on the nefarious. The first group cries the blues when they lose power, failing to realize they set the stage for their own demise to the second group. The second group, happier than pigs in swill, go along their merry way only to be unseated by the third group who pushes the envelope even farther with tactics used by the second group and then some.
My “big picture” brain is always looking for the larger pattern. Apply my theory to the last president and abuse of power to the next one and the abuse orgy he took part in just to be (s)elected. I don’t even want to imagine what is next. At least I won’t be surprised when it happens, nor will you I gather.
Obama and the Dems (me, a Dem all of my life until recently) cheated in every which way they could to get to the White House. Campaign contributions (rampant cheating overlooked and dismissed), caucus cheating, same as above, “rulz” changing to fit their agenda, voter fraud, lying to each different group so that each would hear what they wanted to hear, the media lying, distorting facts and flat out not reporting the truth. It’s just unbelievable, but because of the latter, most people are totally unaware and at this point don’t want to know. I am very disillusioned, to say the least. I certainly don’t think the Republicans are any better at least the politicians. And I DEFINITELY think that Bush’s lying about the war is millions of times worse than Clinton’s. No lie is good, obviously, but the Republicans made the Lewinsky debacle an issue, whereas the Democrats DIDN’T make enough of an issue out of something that should have been an impeachable offense. aaaarrrhhhhhhhaaarrhhh..i’ve had it
I have been working on my degree in education and saw a move to even eliminate grades. I may have even read Bill Ayers was for that. Did we ever hear what kinds of school reform they were pushing on that board? Could be related.
Well, if this ‘dumbing down’ keeps up, how long will we remain a major world power?
BUZZZZZZ!!!!
Sorry…. times up!
What do we have for America, Don Pardo?
“… a complete set of Encyclopedia America with Apocrypha, The Foot Egg, Two Complete Sham-Wow kits and the mandatory signed Two-Hundredth Editions of “Dreams of My Father” and “The Audacity of Hope” with Listen Along CD…”
“Gosh, Don… almost makes ya wish you could be a loser too!”
“Right you are Wink!”
You guys need to read this book!
http://www.ponerology.com/
It is interesting that Obama cheated his way into being president because it looks like he thinks he can cheat/jive his way through it by utilizing people who were part of the Clinton team all over again - like simply replicating those 8 years will bring us back to “normal.”
I currently teach at a big name university in the northeast (think football and bowl game) and I can tell you that plagiarism is rampant and administrators rarely support faculty who grade based on it. They spend their time talking about retention and “student centered” learning, and punishing students for plagiarism would upset the customer base. Any student who challenges a grade, for any reason but especially for plagiarism, is greeted with open arms by my “dean”, who is a student advocate to the extreme. Higher education, at least where I am, has truly turned into Wal Mart: the customer is always right, and that translates into allowing all sorts of student behaviors. The dumbing down of America is alive and well, but make no mistake about it: it’s about the dollars because education is a business, pure and simple.
I think we were separate at birth, because this sounds like something I would’ve written.
I don’t think people can fully appreciate the ire that comes with the disdain for plagiarism unless someone has experienced it committed upon their own person, which is why people are so arrogant and dismissive when it comes to plagiarism. Plagiarism is the reason we have laws about it, about copyright and about trademarks. When someone creates an original work, it should be THEIRS.
Working in the arts community I can attest to this. People have plagiarized my work and when caught, it is NOT pretty. I’ve also caught others at plagiarism, and when THAT happens, it’s not pretty. In at least two writing and arts communities, I was known to catch people for stealing others’ works; in both instances, the people were reprimanded (both kicked off the sites) because the work entailed money exchanging hands. You can’t sit there and STEAL other peoples’ ideas and claim them as your own and make money off of it. It just doesn’t work that way in the real world.
I read a lot of comments about the parents above who don’t care if their kid cheats/plagiarizes. Well, what happens if their entire portfolio is made up of ideas and concepts stolen from other students, and their kid gets an art scholarship based on his/her portfolio? How does that NOT hurt the other kids trying to get the same scholarship? As well, what if it happened in the professional world? Lawsuits would be flying, and THEN OH NO! Said thief would be paying out the nose.
Cheating does no one any good. Do you own damned work, people! It’s the only way creativity advances. It stays mired in a recycling of ideas if people just skim off of other people.
***Well, what happens if their entire portfolio is made up of ideas and concepts stolen from other students, and their kid gets an art scholarship based on his/her portfolio? How does that NOT hurt the other kids trying to get the same scholarship?***
________________________
You are so right.
This is a real problem, here in the UK at least - not only do kids plagiarise work AT college, they plagiarise material for their applications to get into college in the first place! Downloading personal statements for college applications from the internet is so common, that the central office that oversees the applications process nationally is having to institute automatic checking of all personal statements. However, when students are found to have cheated on their applications after starting their courses, are they thrown out? No - so where is the incentive to do it the right way??
And even when students aren’t actually cheating, there is a worrying laziness. A good friend who’s an English Lit professor, tells me she has had to remove longer texts from the syllabus because most of the kids simply refuse to read them. Kids coming to college supposedly to further their interest in literature, refusing to follow their professors’ guidance in what constitutes great literature - because they can’t be bothered to spend a few hours reading. It defies belief. Where is the intellectual curiosity? The respect for knowledge?
I think it’s hard to cheat in the Visual & performing Arts like that…It’s pretty obvious because you are called upon to perform. My kid who got scholarships had to AUDITION…Kids who submit portfolios rely on references from teachers which are given equal weight to portfolio and rarely will a teacher put their reputation on the line for someone they suspect of cheating…Art teachers at that level know the difference and faculty at that college level can be BRUTAL…I know as a former student and a part time foundations professor…you can always tell cause it is very obvious…A kid can either back it up or not and every artist has signature traits that can be seen in the work. Besides…Most students get help from their teachers to apply…Like helping them select the portfolio…I’m just sayin’
Bottom line Obama SUCKS