Bush Suffers No Sole-Searching
By Lena Grove aka nasuS on December 16, 2008 at 1:13 AM in Current Affairs, George Bush, Iraq, Terrorism, Torture
Okay, the first time I saw this video, I laughed but also was worried for the safety of the president. While I empathize with the journalist’s attitude towards President Bush, and his focus on “freedom of speech,” we cannot allow people to throw things at the president. I was impressed with Bush’s quick reaction time. MSNBC reported that even “lefties” admitted their admiration for Bush’s fast moves.
But, there is more to the story. And none of it, best I know, is being reported on American television. There is what the journalist said, as he threw the shoes, reported by Egalia at the terrific site, “Tennessee Guerilla Women“:
Quote of the Day
“This is a farewell kiss, you dog. This is from the widows, the orphans and those who were killed in Iraq.”
– Muntadar al-Zaidi,
the journalist who threw his shoes at Bush
I had heard that the journalist was very badly beaten outside the room by security guards, which is terrible enough. Journalists in the room could hear his screaming. But then there is this sickening report, damn it to hell, via Slun at FireDogLake:
Below are more detailed, and sickening, reports along with an ACTION we can all take.
Raed in the Middle reports:
Albaghdadia, the TV channel where the Iraqi Journalist Montather Al-Zeidi works, reports that an Iraqi MP (Ms. Zainab Al-Kanani) informed them that Montather’s hand was broken in jail.
This confirms a lot of reports and rumors about Montather being subject to torture while the Iraqi authorities are interrogating and detaining him in some unspecified location.
From Roads to Iraq:
Iraqi TV al-Sharqiya just reported on the news that AL-Zaidi is transferred to Camp Cropper prison [the Airport prison, managed by the American forces].
The TV Channel announced that Al-Zaidi is in a difficult condition, with broken ribs and signs of tortures on his thighs. Also he can not move his right arm.
I’ve checked the translation of this account with markfromireland of GorillasGuides who says this report sounds "about right" and is very credible. He also notes the reported injuries would be consistent with repeated severe kicking of Al Zaida.
Al Sharqiya is a major news outlet with a good reputation for credible reporting.
This news is not surprising given the consistent reports of abuse in both Iraqi and US detention centers. In fact, just today Human Rights Watch released a new report on the mistreatment of prisoners in Iraq and you can read it here.
Zeinobia has some great photos of Al Zaida at Egyptian Chronicles as well as some thoughts on reactions in Arabic communities.
Urgent appeals for Al Zaida’s safety should be made by phone to the White House – 202-456-1111 and the Iraqi Embassy – (202) 742-1600.
– Read all of Firedoglake’s “Shoe Thrower Being Tortured?”
I just don’t know.
I’m holding my head in my hands.
It is very hard to take in such terrible news.
And, most certainly, any humor or positive impressions of President Bush’s reaction time has completely disappeared from my outlook.
And President Bush, himself, should intercede.
But wait.
There is this, from Harper’s magazine:
The Torture Presidency
By Scott Horton
President George W. Bush has launched “Operation Legacy,” which he placed in the hands of his ultimate advisor, indeed his “brain,” Karl Rove. Remember Rove? He’s the man who refused to testify under oath when summoned by Congress to do so and was recently identified in a Congressional report as the plotter behind the U.S. Attorneys scandal, among other trainwrecks. The Rove effort features a 2-page set of talking points which have been circulated to members of the administration’s team highlighting the supposedly major Bush accomplishments which have begun to fill the American media. They start with the contention that “Bush kept us safe” by preventing any further attack on American soil after 9/11. Really?
Let’s just take a look at some of that “deranged” criticism. Indeed, let’s start with the criticism from the man tapped by Bush’s fellow Republicans to succeed him, John McCain. This week the Senate Armed Services Committee issued a powerful report, released jointly by chair Carl Levin and ranking member John McCain, that received the unanimous support of its Democratic and Republican members. The report concluded that Donald Rumsfeld and other high-level officials of the administration consciously adopted a policy for the torture and abuse of prisoners held in the war on terror. It also found that they attempted to cover up their conduct by waging a P.R. campaign to put the blame on a group of young soldiers they called “rotten apples.” Lawyers figure prominently among the miscreants identified. Evidently the torture policy’s authors then enlisted ethics-challenged lawyers to craft memoranda designed to give torture “the appearance of legality” as part of a scheme to create the torture program despite internal opposition. A declassified summary of the report can be read here; the full report is filled with classified information and therefore has been submitted to the Department of Defense with a request that the materials be declassified for release. (Don’t expect that to happen before January 20, however).
This report sums up all you need to know about George W. Bush’s eight years of leadership. Karl Rove stresses that Bush has been a perfect moral example for young people in the country. The report tells us that when photos and other evidence of abuse first surfaced, the Bush Administration firmly denied any connection between their policies and the abuse, then attempted to scapegoat a group of more than a dozen young recruits (but not, of course, any of their supervising officers, who knew the details of the administration’s involvement and would have made things messy if disciplined). The report puts these actions in an unforgiving light:
The abuse of detainees in U.S. custody cannot simply be attributed to the actions of ‘a few bad apples’ acting on their own. The fact is that senior officials in the United States government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of their legality, and authorized their use against detainees.
But of course, Bush only turned to torture to keep America safe, right? Wrong. With the unanimous support of its 12 Republican members, the Committee concludes:
The administration’s policies concerning [torture] and the resulting controversies damaged our ability to collect accurate intelligence that could save lives, strengthened the hand of our enemies, and compromised our moral authority.
The report has some more bombshells in it waiting to emerge on declassification. It studies with some care the introduction of specific torture techniques, showing how they were reverse engineered from the SERE program—used to prepare American pilots to resist interrogation techniques used by the Soviets, North Koreans, Chinese and North Vietnamese. By “reverse engineering,” we mean it was adopting the techniques used by the nation’s Communist adversaries in prior generations. We have met the enemy, and he looks remarkably like George W. Bush.
[...]
When you have 12 Republicans concluding unanimously that Bush’s torture policies “strengthened the hand of our enemies, and compromised our moral authority,” we must demand that all of these programs cease, at once, on January 20, 2009.
And it will be up to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to begin the unenviable task — the monstrous burden — of undoing ALL the harm that has been caused worldwide by these horrific and unsuccessful cruel policies.
(Release: November 13)
on sale for only $16.95.
has a spatula.)
8% Off at $11.95, with a rare five-star ranking by 294 customers: 
And check out these: 
("This crazy redhead is on to something. Her pink Rambler story alone is worth the price of the book," writes 
- “Richard Sale’s reportage on Washington, the CIA, the American armed forces, and foreign intrigue has created a perfect background for this account of the steady growth of President Clinton as a master of the game of nations.”--W. Patrick Lang, former head of Middle East Operations, DIA
"Anne C. Heller's stunning biography of Ayn Rand" uses a "plethora of newly unearthed research and fresh insight."
Again:
Urgent appeals for Al Zaida’s safety should be made by phone to the White House – 202-456-1111 and the Iraqi Embassy – (202) 742-1600
Can you spell gullible P-R-O-P-O-G-A-N-D-A… ???!!!
But YOUR President is free to have thousands of innocent people killed and order torture????
What this man did is not right and he can be punished for the offense, but NO ONE should be tortured. We should all stand up against torture, always, always.
Put yourself in his “shoes”, if a foreign power had invaded your country, killed and tortured family, friends, neighbors. Don’t you think you could blow a fuse????
Gosh- sjc- I couldn’t have said it better. G-d bless ya!
hope they stick a road flare up his ass
If that audio (outside the door) were audible, then video with that audio is available. I have my doubts.
As for a broken hand, I have no doubtt hat could have happened in the original takedown, which was lucky (for him) to not be lethal. With that kind of dogpile it would be trivial to have bruising and a broken hand.
Last, I think it’s a strain to say Firedoglake is ‘news’.
I am not saying I know what happened. But none of the resulting injuries would be surprising even after the original detention on the floor. Dana Perino got a black eye in the scuffle.
Anyway I hope it’s not true, and I would guess if Bush went to the lengths he did to stay smiling, he wouldn’t ruin it for some little payback.
Actually…Dana Perino got a black eye from being the spokeswoman for one of the lousiest, anti-average American President in our history.
Bush could actually go a long way by asking for this guy to be spared and released. NPR reported that this reporter is being considered a hero by the entire ME world. Come on Bushy, prove to the world you’re not a complete dick. Save this guy.
Hey NQ.
So, are we allowed to use vulgars names like “Strawberrybitch”? I am just wondering since so many have complained about misogyny. “Bitch” is a derogatory word used to put women down.
Why does NQ allow anyone to post using a name like
“Strawberrybitch”? Anyone who would use such a name is kind of scummy.
From the outset it would seem that way.
However, I guess a special situation arises out of the origins of the name…
http://www.hauntedhouses.com/states/oh/air_force_museum-4.cfm
Thanks Seattle. Great link. She is pretty isn’t she? The haunted part just adds to her mystique.
Are you, a presumed male, going to tell the woman who chose the name, Strawberrybitch, that she can’t use it?
ok…go ahead.
But, I’d question if your politic about misogyny is rooted in Lexicon hunting, or telling women how to identify themselves?
In my home, the word is off limits from my mouth, which I’m fine with, but my wife can use it at will. Is she a misogynist? Sometimes! but basically no. She’s just tired of certain things the way I’m tired of a ton of male behavior.
So, lets kick the conversation up a notch beyond the pedestrian hunt for words as a red herring for real conversation.
Happy New Year
Teak,
As always right on. Woman are allowed to use that word to reference themselves or other woman. It is off limits to guys.
Just as women refrain from calling guys “Dicks” to their faces, or referring to other parts of their genitalia.
Winston– there’s this thing called appropriation whereby you take a negative and assert it politically as your own. As a woman, I’m not necessarily offended by “B” the word, since it depends on how it is used — and by whom.
Exactly! As a dog lover, I know that in the wild, the alpha bitch is really the leader of a pack. I proudly call my femail dog a bitch, and I use it for myslef when I have to take charge. But don’t you dare call me that unless I can hear your tone of voice and know the context of why you’re saying.
Hey WINSTON — You male chauvinist pig — GO TO HELL.
I am sick of you penis worshiping semi-humanoids showing up and changing the subject.
ALL Obamabots are sexist pigs. The only reason you voted for that lying son of a bi*ch is because he has a penis.
Way to go Rain…Good Article Lena. This whole episode is so weird it’s hard to discern the facts or the motives. Surely the Reporter expected something sever as He embarrassed his government globally…Torture? Well that aint’ COOL…Hmmmm…
Was also the name of a US bomber in WWII.
So, how “scummy” could an Army Air Forces officer of the Greatest Generation be?
BINGO!!!! The B-24 Liberator. The nose art on her is beautiful. She represents what America can accomplish when we have a common cause. Google her up. I swear before I die, I’m going to fly her. And Winston, I’ve been using that moniker for years. I’m sorry your delicate senses have been offened, but I won’t change for any man.
Whoops see Seattle’s great link. And thanks No Quarter folks for the back up. I’m amazed someone who supported Barky could even utter a claim of misogeny and scumminess without his tongue bursting ino flames.
winston, mind your own dang business. it is sadly needed. seeing as how you are so self righteous, start off taking your own inventory.
It could also help if Hillary Clinton would say something to help this shoe thrower…. send out one of her special resports, she is wont to do daily.
Actuall in the Arab world to show the soul of the foot is an insult – to throw the shoe is an even bigger insult. There could have been a bomb in that shoe – how come he got two throws?
Someone in the secret service will be looking for a new job for Christmas.
I hope the Red Cross requests a meeting like they do with hostages.
I have no empathy for the reporter who threw the shoe. He knew what he was asking for. Sorry, but that’s the way it is if you threaten a U.S. President.
When I was in high school in Houston, president John Kennedy spoke to all Houston students at the Rice University football stadium. It was a beautiful afternoon that day in May of 1963. JFK’s speech about the “space race” was exciting and well-received. But, during the speech, there was a commotion near the speaker’s platform. Later we learned that a high-school boy had brought a toy gun as a prank, and wanted to see if it was really true what they said about the Secret Service. He pulled out the toy gun, and within a few seconds, was taken to the ground by an agent…Then pounced on by several more agents. He was nearly killed.
All of us high school kids found out that day that you could get yourself hurt and possibly killed, by messing with the Secret Service. The shoe-throwing reporter knows that, too. But, it was his call today. It was important for him, he thought, to do what he did. I’m sure he thinks it was worth it. That’s fine, but I don’t feel sorry for him at all.
I don’t feel sorry for him either, but torturing him to the point of broken bone(s) is overkill. A little smackdown and then locking him up for a few days would have been sufficient.
An act of defiance towards a U.S. President is a serious endeavor. And being part of a revolution is a worthy cause, but not a place for the faint of heart. It’s dangerous and rarely ever pretty. We’re all responsible for our actions when we break the rules. No exceptions.
Yes, so is such an insult to the king of England. All of the people that gained our independence should have been locked up and tortured.
Oh Brother!…Next you’ll be calling the Shoe Thrower Iraq’s Washington…(eyes rolling )
sheeesh!
touchet don’t even compare this dufus with the american revolution. we are a tad smarter here than the obots.
would bush be exempt from this “all responsible for our actions when we break the rules”?
I hope so.
I understand the act of defiance by this reporter. In his country right now he expressed the view that Bush is a dog, not worthy of a respectful goodbye. Bush hasn’t acted Presidential in months, perhaps years, so I don’t quite think it is intellectually sound to think of Bush as the role of US President at this point. He’s sort of a national…perhaps international disgrace.
I believe many, whether it had been Obama or McCain, were ready to have to another player to address as Mr. President, after 8 years of this puppet of a man.
And no, I don’t give him points for the “quick reflexes” because I’ve seen squirrels move faster.
The only penalty I seek at this point is lifetime imprisonment for Bush and Cheney. I have no shoe to throw. He’s beneath my cheapest sandals anyway.
This is symbolic though of what Bush did to our image for the last 8 years.
Now the youngling will come and show us how he will “lead” us differently. I expect a moderate outcome, not because of his prowess, but because the world is tiring of its warring and the economic realities will set in soon enough.
Cheney loved to take credit for “stopping further attacks” on us. To hell with him too. I don’t believe he stopped anything. I believe very hard working professionals did everything they could to protect us, and his ideologue garbage interfered.
The journalist in Bagdad has more courage than any of the members of our Congress. Kucinich put the papers up to sign and only a few people showed their spine. This man had nothing to lose and a last chance to show how he felt. I place honest above nationalism. Bravo.
(note: today I also made sure to point out to friends that the Secret Service is such a professional organization that I want them to do their job regardless of the scumbag they protect. the same is true of our intel officials, state dept folks, etc, thanks for your service!)
And you think torture is appropriate, even without benefit of a trial?
That is very interesting.
Do you under stand why we have due order, and laws?
How do you know he was tortured? The man knew he would face repercussions for his actions and apparently didn’t care. He’s lucky Bush waved his guys off or he could have had much worse happen to him. It’s so easy to pick up on “supposed” facts and run with them. Look how well Obama’s gang does that. Bush may have some bad policies, but he is brave and stalwart in his love for this country. He probably saved the guy’s life. How do you know he didn’t ask the Iraqi authorities to spare him the worst? You don’t, just like you don’t know that he was tortured. Besides it’s his country applying the punishments whatever they are and why should we interfere. Isn’t that what all the libs complain about aka the Iraq war anyway? Our interference in another country’s way of doing things? Make up your mind, and wait to judge until you know for sure what happened. Who believes the news media anyway? Now on their side are you? The media who hate Bush will inflate everything that involves him always.
I have no problem with the reporter yelling whatever he wants at the president…but I believe trying to hit the man with his shoes is a physical attack and for that he should be jailed. I’m making no comment about the alleged beating…but the man should be in jail.
I don’t have much sympathy for the dope who threw the shoes. Broken hand is better than no hand at all, which would be the historical response.
.
Hmmm….Progressives as usual want it both ways…
Bitchin and Whinin Against intervention…( Let them have their NOBLE Grass Huts…)
Bitchin and Whining For intervention against Primitive Legal Practices within these societies….OH BROTHER!
I wish Bush had thrown the shoes right back at that cocksucker, and nailed him.
[...] Bush Suffers No Sole-Searching : NO QUARTER And it will be up to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to begin the unenviable task — the monstrous burden — of undoing ALL the harm that has been caused worldwide by these horrific and unsuccessful cruel policies. … [...]
Bush Suffers?
Do you not think my beautiful niece Melissa Vincent didn’t suffer when she was merely dropping off paperwork at Cantor for her law firm on her way to work on 9/11? She was alive for 48 minutes in WTC-1, where she made 23 heart wrenching phone calls before she threw herself out of Canters windows landing on Church Street? No? Leaving her Husband and three little girls that we’re now raising? Have you ever been afraid Bush S. and I mean fight or flight afraid where there is no flight option Bush S.? Until you have experienced this first hand I would say you are deferred from your post subject. If it were I in that news conference I would have lopped of this idiot’s head with piano wire in a nano second. Got that Bush S.? We’ll see how Barry handles our first attack and then our second, third, fourth, etc..
If someone had told me that we would have needed to cut the arms off of Islamic terrorists, yes terrorists in order to protect 3,000 of our fellow citizens that day, I would have said start with my Louisville Slugger.
Let me ask you the same question Bush S.? If a family member dearest to you was about to be liquidated but you had a chance to change circumstances beforehand which would require say a water-boarding, what would you do and be honest? Then show that family member your response……
I pose this question to you as well StrawberryB
Happy Holidays and with undue respect BushS, pound sand…..
Seymour
The man threw shoes for goodness sake. He didn’t have a gun or a bomb or anything. Meanwhile Ayers a man who did terrorize Americans on American soil, using bombs, gets kudos and interviews, and a book deal.
So yes, let’s let Ayers become a respected professor and author and beat a guy who threw shoes.
That may be one of the reasons this guy is a hero.
People in the ME watch American news too.
The secret service agents (or security guards)are not going to “assess” whether someone is throwing a shoe, a bomb, or a loaf of bread in the seconds they have to act. We’re not talking about hall monitors here. We’re talking about agents trained to immediately overpower and take down people who threaten the President. They ask questions later. If that bothers you, then mount a campaign to change the procedure.
And we should also mention SS agents capable of understanding, and upholding the law.
(If I need a retarded attack dog, oh, well, (someone here just shouted out “go air force,” but hey who am I, Saul Alinsky? So I apologize…).
Anyway, our agents should be able to think on their feet, correct? Without a fair and rational legal code to adhere to, they are nothing more than the SS, or the Stasi, the greater implications, even cultural implications, devastating for America, even economically.
I know the arbitrary use of force may give the illusion of safety, but when anyone in power operates, or thinks, on a false premise, the country suffers.
There is theory behind our legal code, if you, like me, enjoy our way of life, it’s best to understand it.
Everyone seems to be missing the point. Where were the Secret Service to protect the President after the first throw? Should’nt they have been shielding him from further threats? At least stand in front of the podium to deflect thrown objects? Remember this is the leader of our country whether you like the man or not (and I don’t). This reflects poorly on the Secret Service and the safety of future presidents. And I don’t like Obama either but the OFFICE of the presidency must not be belittled in a foreign country or enemies will be emboldened to do more serious acts.
That was my first thought – Bush is in IRAQ for crying out loud, and the Secret Service allowed 2 projectiles to be thrown at him before they even moved? WTH? I am certainly not a fan of Bush (to say the least), but I want my President protected, whoever he or she may be. This incident is a dangerous example of how vulnerable our President is. I imagine BO watched this and had the phone in his hand within minutes asking to talk to the head of the Secret Service about how they are planning on protecting him.
As to the alleged torturing of the reporter who threw the shoes – despite Pres. Bush’s remarks making light of the matter, no doubt the Iraqi security forces felt a loss of face over the incident. Combined with their unfortunately too common experiences with severe physical punishments, I would be more surprised if they acted with restraint.
The reporter told his friend just before the news conference that it is “an honor to die a martyr”, so a broken hand is much less than what he was expecting.
All that being said – torture is unacceptable by anyone.
I recall an incident when Bush was in Argentina, he was entering the location of a state dinner or meeting – the Argentine security detail stepped between Bush and his bodyguard. The Secret Service agent was attempting to get beyone the Argentine guard, who was blocking the agent. Bush heard the scuffle behind his back, and grabbed his own Secret Service agent by his collar – literally – and pulled him in through the doorway.
Sometimes I wonder about POTUS protection.
From the article:
One of the cornerstones of our democracy is Freedom of Speech, but I’ve never seen projectiles thrown at any American president at a press conference.
Freedom of Speech is different from simple assault.
I hope they take a smoke break when Obama is at risk, just like they did for Bush in this situation. I myself wondered what the hell took them so long to act! Geez. If the guy had had a gun, Cheney’d be the acting POTUS right now!
I thought the Secret Service must have been in the same place they were when they left Mr. Bush in that classroom doing a photo op for more than 30 minutes while the Twin Towers were rammed and the Pentagon was attacked.
The more our government “changes” the worse it gets. By the time Soertoro’s private army is in place, the Secret Service will be obsolete anyway.
Replaced by NOI guards…Hmmmm….
That report was not even remotely confirmed. Does anyone find it strange, at all, that a report like that hits the blogosphere with numbers to contact individuals? No one finds it even remotely suspicious that the same day they threw shoes at soldiers on patrol all of a sudden a couple of hours later the reporter is being tortured? By his own people. Did anyone at all read the new security agreement they just signed weeks ago? We have NO jurisdiction! None. The Iraqi’s were doing the interrogating and yes it’s easy to believe this story because everyone hates Bush. I understand that.
This story is bogus do to the fact of the security agreement they just signed. The one they don’t really talk about because Obama was suppose to get credit for “bringing us back”. It outlines what we can and cannot do. We have NO authority. That is why this story is in the blogosphere to change the narrative and not the MSM. Because then they would have to explain to those that are peddling this how a story like this exist when the Iraqi’s now have jurisdiction over all matters. From patrols, who we can arrest, houses we would search.
I think so too, its a way to distract from the blago case and also to let the Obots remember why they voted for Obama.
Yeah
I kind of figured it was something to amp them up and to get back out there and continue the “fight”.
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/112768/it%27s_official%3A_total_defeat_for_u.s._in_iraq/
Reap what you’ve sowed No Quarter. A comment section full of torture apologists.
What do you expect, a man dt threw shoe, if he had gun, he would have pull the trigger. Either a HERO or a victim, there is a price for everything. US invasion of Iraq left many casualities, but freedom does not cheap, I’m sure Iraq will be better-off without saddam on the long run.
[...] Bush Suffers No Sole-Searching And it will be up to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to begin the unenviable task — the monstrous burden — of undoing ALL the harm that… [...]
Lena Grove, I don’t suppose you caught the snippet tonight on an Interview with Cheney, when asked by the Good Morning America reporter if the “interrogation” techniques used on KSM, including water-boarding were used. and the Vice President confirmed that he thought it was ok to water board.
Asked whether he still believes it was appropriate to use the water-boarding method on terrorism suspects, Cheney said: “I do.”
It is hard to understand why he would admit to a war crime on national TV.
Sorry, while I am concerned about some journalist getting his shit handed to him for being an idiot, We have bigger fish to fry. I don’t care for anything Bush ever did or said but if you want to throw a shoe or two at POTUS, the beating is expected. Not the waterboarding in our name.
[...] Bush Suffers No Sole-Searching : NO QUARTER Bush Suffers No Sole-Searching : NO QUARTER And it will be up to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to begin the unenviable task — the monstrous burden — of undoing ALL the harm that has been caused worldwide by these horrific and … [...]
This story is a “shoe-in” for the 2008 high light reels.
Suppose the shoes had been bombs a la Reid, the shoe bomber. We have no control over Iraqi security forces and the way he is treated, unfortunately is the norm in ALL middle eastern countries. i dare anyone to name a nation in the area that does NOT ‘torture” suspects or prisoners. they have been doing this for thousands of years, remember slavery was not outlawed in Saudi Arabia until 1962! it is probably still practiced underground in S. Arabia. Beatings of Wives, daughters and foreign workers is routine and an accepted norm for the male -centric societies over there and the Myopic left- dominated media tries to blame us??? these people think that trowing acid in a woman’s face is NORMAL! A totally backward society cannot be changed by a few talking heads on American TV. change has to come from within. I feel bad for the guy but he knew what he had coming and those are the breaks.Bush should advocate for the guy as Pope John Paul II did for Mehmet Ali Agca after being Shot by him!it would be a nice change.
all these tears for this shoe thrower. give me a break. tears for this country and that one all the while our standard of living is declining. we need to get back to taking care of business at HOME. look on your own street and find someone to help.
First, where was the Secret Service?
Second, those were shoes, intended to insult, not kill, and a few days in jail would suffice.
Third, are you listening about torture, American leaders–and the fraud puppet bho, who is and shall forever be an illegitimate empty suit?
No matter how much someone is respected or disrespected, throwing projectiles at them is unacceptable. Period.
If it’s the POTUS getting things thrown at him, the secret service is entirely within its authority and duty to take the guy out — in no uncertain terms.
.
Let me get this straight, the guy gets a broken hand so he must have been tortured? You know what, I’m really not buying it.
I think Bush got dealt a bad hand. I’m willing to bet that many of the techniques used uner him were also used under Clinton (who hated Bin Laden with a passion) and under previous presidencies. It doesn’t make torture any more right, but I think dumping all this on him without examining past presidents is unfair to the guy. And that picture that surfaced was probably just a bunch of idiots who got carried away. Anger does terrible things to people.
I mean Bush ducked and waved off the secret service. Why are people trying to tie him into what the Iraqi goverment MIGHT be doing. I say might because last time I checked they’re not to fond of Bush so I can’t see them torturing a guy because he threw a shoe, and given what life was like under Saddam (this guy DEFINITELY would have been tortured and killed), I don’t think the government is willing to return to such a tradition.
This seems like propaganda put out by his journalists friends in an attempt to gain sympathy for his dumb ass behavior and shine a bad light on US and Iraqi relations. You don’t have to like the guy, but everyone know you should not throw a shoe at a world leader, or you will go to jail. I can’t believe people are actually buying this.
I don’t like the guy either, but I have to give Bush his due. He did keep us safe. Given the behavior of many of these terrorists (global thugs) assholes as of late, I’m convinced we could have given them sunshine and lollipops and they would still find a reason to hate us. And he didn’t keep us safe by torturing, he did it with constant pressure, militarily and diplomatic. (Yes diplomacy. Anyone who thinks there was no talking really needs to get their reality adjusted.)
I find it unbelievable that the shoe thrower’s brother would find out immediately about his treatment in jail when nobody else seems to have that information. He could have easily gotten a broken hand and a black eye and even a broken rib when being taken down. After all, they didn’t know whether he had a hidden bomb on him. He chose his own actions and should have known there would be consequences to throwing an object at the President. He had every right to shout out his opinions, but not to throw something at the President. He should not be tortured and I do not think he has been tortured. He should, however, spend at least 6 months in jail for his actions. I have finally reached the opinion that the US should get out of Iraq immediately and let them go back to the sort of regime that Saddam gave them. That seems to be what they want. They certainly admire anyone who violently expresses his opinions. Let’s pull out now and leave them to the tender mercies of Iran and the terrorists. Maybe they can even get another Saddam to rule them. Some people just don’t want freedom and it shouldn’t be forced upon them. They can’t handle it.
Kitty. Throwing a shoe at someone in the ME is a well known insult, as is showing the soles of your shoes or offering your left hand. Being called a dog is also very, very bad. Insulting yes, violent…ummmm nah. I’m sure he was patted down before he got there.
We had the leader of Iran in our country and even speaking in one of our universities. He insulted us horribly and I’m sure many journalists covering his visit did not agree with what he said. None of them called out insults or threw anything at him or held up one finger at him which is a well known insult in our country. This so called journalist should serve some time for throwing a missile at the leader of a foreign country even if the missile is a shoe. He chose to act as he did and should have to suffer consequences.
This was not Iran, this is Iraq. Two completly different countries with distinct histories. We bombed the ever living shit out of their country and a lot of innocent people were killed. I’m sorry, but I’m sure if one of your children was accidently killed by falling shrapnel or lack of clean water, or healthcare or roving bands of thugs due to the fact that the government was overthrown and chaos was allowed to take hold (remember Rummy saying freedom was ‘messy’) you’d be angry too. It will take decades to rebuild Iraq even if they do get their shit together, which I’m not sure they can do, with or without us being there. All I’m asking is to put yourself in the average Iraqi’s place. As for suffering, I think the Iraqi people have suffered enough. I don’t want to see another human being hurt. If I were Bush, I’d ask the Iraqi government to let the guy go. To try and start some sort of healing.
actually iraq is well on the way to having a better economy than we do. bush threw our economy in the toilet for this badly planned foolish war. they have one of the biggest oil reserves in the world. my financial friends say buy the iraq dinari. so we don’t need to be there anymore. THEY DON’T WANT US. AND WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF MONEY TO GIVE THEM. LET’S TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN FIRST.
Why did they not demonstrate against Saddam who massacred hundreds of thousands of his own people and gassed many more? Did they have healthcare and clean water and no roving bands of black shirted militia killing and mutilating them under him? They have suffered and suffered enough, but I absolutely refuse to accept that their plight has been caused by the USA. I believe the US wants to get of of Irag and leave them with a decent government and freedom to run their own country in safety. All some people seem to want is to blame us for all their ills and I am sick of this country being blamed for every bad condition that happens in the world. I don’t accept it and I never will. This country has made some mistakes, but has overwhelmingly tried to help rather than harm.
Good Grief, now Zimbabwe is saying that we caused their cholera epidemic. Are we supposed to accept the blame for that too?
Um Iraq had one of the most progressive cultures in the ME. Women could drive and hold jobs and believe it or not Shia and Sunnis actually lived in the same neighborhoods and worked together. Believe me, I still wouldn’t want to live under saddam (Saudi Arabia is worse for women)and I don’t blame the US for all the ills of the world. Just dumbasses in Washington making ill informed decisions. PS who do you think helped Saddam to power after he escaped to Egypt? Yup he was our pet until he bit the hand that fed him.
i fear they’ll continue making those same dumb decisions. obama has a number of former carter advisors as well.
Don’t remind me. If there is a supreme being, then Barky will refuse to take office and Hillary will become prez.
kitty, we are at fault for much of iraq’s current problems. that is due to this idea that has been prevalent for so long that we are to manage the world. we can no longer do that and shouldn’t. true bush is a terrible president. i am glad to see him go. i don’t want to see him injured or hurt by anyone especially an iraqi. obama? well btd said yesterday at talk left that obama could be another carter or fdr. i don’t think he’ll be either. i do like some of his appointments and hope for the best though i fear his inexperience and arrogance.
having said that i don’t feel much sympathy for this shoe thrower either. i think it is primarly a media play.
When the President of the United States goes to another country, he is representing the USA, whether he has been a good or bad president. There will always be many on either side. I love my country and feel that if we don’t defend it, who will? Certainly not the rest of the world.I am highly insulted and offended when our President is disrespected in another country because I consider it an insult against my country. I don’t accept that it is okay for our President to be attacked or insulted just because it is the common “culture’ of another country to do so.We should pull out and let them take care of themselves since they make it abundantly clear that is what they want. Maybe they will do a wonderful job of it and teach us how to live.
Um, isn’t the Iraqi government supposed to independent? Why would the US government ‘tell’ them how to treat those they arrest? They have different cultural paradigms and must choose their own punishments. If the US is stepping back, Bush cannot intervene. The issue of Bush-backed torture, whatever you think of it, is irrelevant to this shoe thrower.
True, SNK, but Bush could come out and ask for this guy to be let go. It would reflect well on him. I can’t help but think of the Pope forgiving his attacker and how much good that did in Christian/Muslim relations.
bush isn’t the pope. and we can ask them to show mercy but we no longer have a real say in iraq. that is the price of leaving.
Bush isn’t the pope? Ain’t that the truth? But like I said, it would be a wonderful gesture on his part.
i agree it would be a nice gesture. maybe they might even listen. my point is iraq is now in charge of their own destiny. sure on some level i can feel sympathy for iraqis, but i am now saving my feelings and pocketbook for my fellow americans. you know the ones ignored by the media and government. the middle class who actually works for a living only to see it go up in smoke because of the games by congress and president. that includes both sides.
This man meant physical harm to the President. I don’t think he tried to miss! He came to the meeting with the intent to throw the shoes at him. He wasn’t even supposed to be at the meeting, but had used his credentials to sneak in, according to one news report. If he had only wanted to express his hatred of the US, he certainly had a “bully Pulpit” in which to do it. After all, he is a journalist and can write his views in his paper. Suppose he had connected with the President’s face, broke his nose maybe. The demonstrators would really loved that. Many people hate many things, but violence is not acceptable and should be punished.
Yup and Bush should be the first to go to jail. Afterall the 911 report said Iraq had nothing to do with the Twin Towers Attack. Iraq was attacked and destroyed because Bush told us Saddam was in on it with Bin Laden…so when will Bush and his minions go to jail for their acts of violence? My heart aches for the average Joes of Iraq, my husband tried dearly to help the few he could with gifts of shoes for the children. He hired them to work for for him and he even tried to get a couple help to come to the US to escape religious persecution, but the red tape proved too much even for him. Show a little compassion.
actually i am now saving my compassion for americans. i am tired of trying to save the world. i speak three languages and plan on living outside the country in a few years so i am not a hate the outside world sort of person. i am sick and tired of americans thinking we are supposed to save the world or mangage it. this attitude has brought our people nothing but heartache and small pocketbooks. that attitude applies to trade as well.
Um again no we can’t save the world, but like Colin Powell said, “You break it, you own it” We should have let the Iraqi people overthrow Saddam on their own. I honestly think Saddam’s days were numbered anyhow. Ten years max and how long have we been there? Look saddam had to have a cadre of doubles and was constantly looking over his shoulder. He was incredibly lucky to have survived as long as he did. But one day, he would have zigged when he showed have zagged and it would have been all over. But at least Iraq’s infastructure would have been in tact with a military able to protect itself against Iran. Now it looks as if Iran will be the big winer in all of this.
all true strawberry! sad! let me broaden the commentary for a minute to add that a friend of mine from zimbabwe says that mugabe is now quite ill! i believe he has had aids for a number of years now or maybe it was malaria. both are killers in the country as well. heretofore his health care givers have taken good care of him. i am told he has the best security in the world. i doubt a shoe thrower could get close to him.
go to talk left and see what the lefties are saying about this shoe thrower. they are applauding. they so remind me of the self rigtheous far right. there is no difference. the one thing i have learned is idealogues of either side are bad for the country when they are in charge. fdr was no leftie, he was a pragmatist pure and simple.
I will NOT take any action to help ANYONE who attempts to physcially attack my AMERICAN President. I don’t care if it’s BUSH or OBAMA.
Once there is precedent that it is OK to physically assault an American President, it puts his life in jeopardy by 1000X more, and our country cannot afford the hysteria or temporary chaos, thus vulnerability to attack/ stock market fluctations/ child trauma, etc etc etc of a Presidential death.
PLUS, I don’t know if these stories are true–whether this guy is getting hurt or NOT. I know that this journalist is a sensation, and he is getting support from protestors, and *maybe* lying lawyers who want to build sympathy for him.
I’ll take action on women getting ACID thrown in their face. I’ll take action on helping American Soldiers who have been hurt by Iraqis.
I’ll NOT help some angry Iraqi who tries to break the President’s face by fast pitching shoes at his head. Hell no.
I agree 100%!
ooh, I see my misspellings…dang “action for Iraqi who attacked president” got me worked up! WHAT THE…
WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This moron ATTACKED your president. Period! It doesn’t matter WHO that is! He has attacked YOU, YOUR COUNTRY, and INSULTED all the people who have died to give him and YOU your “rights” of expression.
The shoe thrower deserves nothing short of prosecution and in his country, if that is having his ass kicked, then so be it!
Geezzz. Some of you people are too freaking nieve!!
I agree with you 1000% percent. And even if the man suffered a broken hand – so what? He’ll recover. We have gotten so ridiculously squeamish about physical pain in this country…I’ll bet I feel more pain during the worst times of my monthly period than that man did getting his hand broken.
“This is a farewell kiss, you dog. This is from the widows, the orphans and those who were killed in Iraq.”
This also applies to all of you that feel “empathy” (aaagh!) for Bush. That shoe incident is the closest that Bush will ever get to any retribution for all he did.
opie, put a sock in it. leftie arrogance is hot air in a balloon with a big hole in it.
So you would feel the same way if Barky got a shoe chucked at him? PS I can’t stand Barky, but I want to make a point. Thousands of people in Iraq are dead, perhaps even some of this man’s family. I don’t know if I could contain myself if any of my family was killed.
i asked myself that question about barky. i don’t care for him. i don’t want to see things thrown at any american president period. if these folks think they can get away with that, the next time it’ll be far worse. so no, hell no i don’t want anything thrown at any american president. we all would pay the price and it wouldn’t be pretty.
also let me add that we suffer from the idealogues in our country from both sides. they are applauding and smiling about the shoes being thrown at bush. their hatred was also aimed at sarah and hillary. remember that. so if we go along with this type of thinking now matter how much we justify it, we are setting ourselves up for even worse behavior from our own extremists.
Amen.
I have no sympathy for the shoe thrower…
He would have not dare throw one shoe to the last regime. It would be OFF with his HEAD in the public square.
The fact that an angry man throwing his shoes at an American president produces varied responses here at home says a lot, doesn’t it?
I’m thankful no physical harm came to Bush. I’m troubled that he seems to have honestly dismissed an anguished gesture as a publicity stunt.
He doesn’t get it. He never will. There’s something lacking about the man.
January can’t get here soon enough.
BTW, where the hell was the Secret Service? This guy got off a second shoe, for Pete sake!
january can’t get here soon enough? in many ways i agree but i also have very deep concerns about obama and the democrats in general. don’t forget they are part of the problem.
(For some reason Shakespeare comes to mind.) This shoe throwing incident portends ill; foreshadowing end of U.S. military dominance in Iraq; the dreams of New World Order against the reality of a parochial and corrupt society.
The shoe thrower was most likely aware of the consequences of his actions. He must have been of mind that beating, torture or other personal mayhem would be inflicted on his body. In some countries, say China, he would probably have been executed for his disrespect to a U.S. president and subsequent loss of “face” it engendered. Whatever his state of mind, I don’t believe any of this is reason to meddle in what is the affairs of another nation.
What is the big deal? If a shoe was thrown at Obama, all the followers would demand the thrower’s head on a platter! The muslim journalist deserve prison time! What if it was the President of Iraq? These people are living in the 1st century- with the exception of the moderate muslims- if they are allowed to get away with this one incident- they will throw over their government. I have NO pity on the guy who is being tormented! I wished Bush threw the shoes right back at the SOB!
Bush launched an unnecessary invasion, threw thousands of tons of bombs, bullets, artillary shells and cruise missiles, and precipitated years of sectarian violence. Confirmed Iraqi civilian deaths total 98,133, and much of the country is in ruins. The guy who was mad about this shouted at Bush and threw a couple of shoes.
Maybe we need a bit more perspective.
I did not vote for President Bush and I never, ever agreed with him on anything except the economic rescue steps that he has sincerely taken. However, what the Egyptian reporter did to our President Bush is simply the LOWEST level of abomination for any human being. That reporter should be treated very seriously and punished appropriately by Iraqi authorities. He didn’t act like humanbeing and doesn’t deserve tobe treated as one.