truthtelling007’s Good German reference is spot on.

“At the beginning of this administration, just after 9/11, I was in a conversation with Grandpa Al Lewis, and he was discussing this in those terms, The Good Germans. And I’ve insisted on not being one from that point on.”

This is one of history’s most important lessons. Each and every one of us has to guard against it. I saw “Judgement at Nuremburg” when I was a junior or senior in high school, 40+ tears ago. It made a huge impression. And the lesson I took from it is to always be vigilant and guard against that moral relativism that led to “Good Germans.”

Retired, that is just moral arithemetic. The size and scope of the wrong does not make it less vapid. If Bush’s evil is ignored it could easily escalate in scope.

If some Americans had not spoken out against Bush’s actions I think he would have gone further.

The only saving grace for America is that there were and are some who spoke out on this injustice.

What bothers me about this period in America is that there were not MORE who spoke out.

Now to the movie and to tie that in, the Point of a movie that Larry has just recommended (again actually) is that we as a nation have allowed our representatives and elected officials do so many things that are egregious actions in the name of our “security” and we have become GOOD GERMANS.

In Nuremburg we found that the architects are as guilty as the soldiers who commit war crimes when they create an environment of unacceptable, in fact criminal, actions as the norm.

This dead fish rotted from the top down. This wasnt a few bad apples. This was 5 time deferment coward Dick Cheney and Dr. Strangelove Donald Rumsfeld, aka Mr. Known Unknown Knowns….and their blowhard macho crap. Neither has a strategic bone in their body outside of political vengeance and their own arrogance.

But the apparatus extended beyond them through their sycophantic legion of Doug Feiths, Ari Fleischers, Dan Bartletts, etc. The whole body was corrupt.

And from there we have our co-dependent Branch called Congress who allowed it to happen, save a few members like Robert Wexler and mighty mite Kucinich, few have stood up to this gaggle of thieves and liars.

The only difference I see between these murdering liars is that it happened to Iraqis, Afghanis and surrounding Arabs instead of Jews and the component wasn’t blatantly stated as a “cleaning” as Eichmann proposed. For the rest though, the Good German behavior of Americans..yep, the twisted logic of “war on terror” and invading Iraq…yep…(my czech folks don’t much appreciate what happened in 1939 in the Hitler’s war on terror)…and the corporate involvement of launching war, maintaining war, and promoting more war, yes, the ties are too similar to me.

My first exposure to this history was through William Shrirer’s book Rise and Fall of Third Reich. And the only thing I’ve been most concerned with hasn’t been the rise of another Hitler, but the rise of Good Germans.

At the beginning of this administration, just after 9/11, I was in a conversation with Grandpa Al Lewis, and he was discussing this in those terms, The Good Germans. And I’ve insisted on not being one from that point on.

We should have full accountability or forget having a worthy democracy. I don’t care how tired you might be of hearing about Bush or Cheney, these sorry bastards need to be in prison for torture, wiretapping, outing Valerie Plame and her related operatives and operations, for ruining our reputation in the world via Abu Ghraib, no WMD, threats of nuke attacks, and potentially depending on the facts…the greatest theft in history with these bailouts.

If I’m to be a loyal subject of this country, then I cannot be a loyal subject of her president and her vice president. If I’m to be a loyal citizen to my community, then I cannot just be quiet when an injustice goes on unanswered.

Have a good Christmas and New Year, but don’t forget to hold Dick Cheney and Co. completely accountable. Remain vigilant into the new year as this progresses and make sure that your Representatives and Senators are doing their job of Representing YOU.

Saludo

As always I deeply appreciate your insights and observations.

???

If by “his comments” you mean Vice President Cheney, I saw it from his own mouth when he said it! In fact he has on more than one occasion, admitted on national TV, as has Bush, he has no regard for the law and admittedly broke the law. In the same breath, Cheney dared anyone to prosecute him for his lawlessness.

“…Truth, Justice and the value of a single Human Life.”

That is what motivates Bush Cheney in your view?

I watched the interviews with David Frost and Nixon when they occured, I watched him resign after being woken up at 3:00 am in London…

A movie? More like a syndicated re-run.

So tell me about hight crimes and misdomeanors let alone Treason, which is advocaeting the violent overthrough of the government.

I’m not quite sure how that supports torture. It doesn’t.

What I object to is comparing the Bush administration’s actions, either in scope or profundity, to what the Nazis did in World War II to Europe’s Jewish population. Just because the Bush administration’s moral outrages are more recent doesn’t make them equal to what the Nazis did. It also doesn’t make them right.

I heartily suggest that you check your visceral hatred of anything Bush at the door and study history a bit more closely before you automatically try to equate this administration with the some of the most profoundly evil incarnations in human history. Bush is a bad guy, no doubt about it. But as someone who successfully integrated evil throughout a society, he is a piker. The mere fact that we are openly discussing this on a website without fear of punishment serves as proof of this.

2) This president and vice president are of the belief they are above the law by thier own actions and words.

3) It’s hard to see where they have upheld thier sworn oath to “protect and defend the constitution” when according to Bush the “US Constitution is just a god damn piece of paper”.

good luck with defending them.

There was also the “outing” of Valerie Plame - a secret non -officail cover (NOC) CIA agent and thus the destrution the their front company that was created soley for the purpose of stopping non-proliferation.

That is the HIGH CRIME called Treason!

There was also the “outing” of Valerie Plame - a secret non -officail cover (NOC) CIA agent and thus the destrution the their front company that was created soley for the purpose of stopping non-proliferation.

That is the HIGH CRIME call Treason!

Where is Hollywood when we need them?

This film and To Kill a Mockingbird and Inherit the Wind.

Nothing can excuse what was done, Larry.

Nothing. They will have to live with what they did.

One more film to know — Johnny Got His Gun.

The Bush administration violated the Geneva Conventions and should be brought to justice for those violations as well as for violating the basic premises upon which the United States of America is based.