I’m new to the forum so I just wanted to say hi to everone!

There was no Palestine before 1948? Are you kidding? The British Mandate was to split PALESTINE up?

Please take time to read this.
http://www.cactus48.com/OriginMSW.pdf
It is written by Jews For Justice in the Middle East.

“Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French…What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct…If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs… As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of nonviolence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.” Mahatma Gandhi, quoted in “A Land of Two
Peoples” ed. Mendes-Flohr.

19:13 , 12.30.08
Talking Back

Rocket damage in Sderot Photo: Sderot Media Center

Answering Israel’s critics

Six cliches you are likely to hear constantly in the coming days, and why they’re false–

Yigal Walt

1) “Israel’s response in Gaza is disproportionate”

Since when is war a mathematical equation? The basic objective of any warring party is to inflict maximal damage on the enemy while minimizing its own casualties. Was there anything proportional about the US war in Iraq? Or about Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait for that matter? Or about Russia’s recent war against Georgia? Israel is doing exactly what any other country has done in the past. This is how war works.

Would a British citizen complain that “too few” British soldiers are being killed in Iraq? Probably not.

And on a more elementary note: Palestinian military inferiority is not an indication of moral superiority. Palestinian insistence on resorting to violence despite this military weakness is an indication of poor judgment perhaps – yet it is by no means an indication of moral virtue. Being militarily weak does not make the Palestinians right.

2) “But Qassams don’t kill”

Actually, Qassams do kill. Not too often, perhaps, but dozens of Israelis were killed and wounded by rocket fire in recent years. Moreover, at this time the Palestinians are firing long-range Grad rockets with even greater explosive power. Such rockets killed 2 Israelis Monday.

Yet beyond the casualty figures, the psychological damage caused as result of living under an ongoing rocket threat is immeasurable. Would anyone in the West agree to have their family live under constant rocket attacks and be regularly woken up by sirens in the middle of the night? Would anyone living under such conditions appreciate being told that “these rockets don’t kill?” Probably not.

3) “It’s all because of Israel’s siege. Israel should allow aid into Gaza.”

Israel has allowed goods into Gaza regularly throughout the “siege”. Palestinians have been able to complement these deliveries with supplies smuggled through hundreds of tunnels (of course, they would likely be able to bring in even more food had they not used the tunnels to smuggle in missiles).

The day before operation “Cast Lead” got underway, Israel allowed dozens of trucks carrying aid to enter the Strip. On Tuesday, another 100 trucks – double the normal number -are expected to enter Gaza after Defense Minister Barak approved the move.

In short, Israel is allowing aid into the Strip (but guess who has kept Gaza crossings mostly closed thus far? That’s right, Egypt).

4) “Why didn’t Israel just agree to renew the Gaza truce?”

First, what truce? Terror groups continued to fire rockets throughout the lull, even if somewhat infrequently, and even if the world didn’t seem to care too much. Nonetheless, Israel clearly declared that it is interested in extending the truce. Our top officials made it clear time and again.

Yet Hamas leaders clearly declared that the truce has ended on December 19th, and proceeded to bombard southern Israeli communities with dozens of rockets daily. In short, it is no wonder that even the Egyptians are blaming Hamas this time.

5) “But Hamas was elected democratically – why can’t Israel accept it?”

Although Hamas won the Palestinian elections, it took Gaza by force, in the process hurling rival Fatah members down to their death from high-rises and shooting others in the knees with the declared aim of maiming them. Some democracy.

In any case, Israel in fact “recognizes,” de facto, Hamas’ rule in Gaza, which is precisely why it is justified in attacking the Hamas-ruled Strip, recognizing that it is indeed being governed by a terror entity. Israel did not launch the operation because Hamas is in power there – rather, it did so because Hamas is a terrorist organization that has deliberately targeted civilians with thousands of rockets over the past 8 years.

6) “Israel is targeting civilians”

You mean to say that “one of the most powerful armies in the world” has been bombing Gaza for days, deploying massive air power, dropping hundreds of bombs, and ultimately killing a grand total of 50 civilians or so in the “most crowded place on earth?”

There are two options here: A) The Israeli army is not targeting civilians, or B) Israeli pilots suck. We tend to go with option A.

Indeed, Israel goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties, by deploying precise ammunition and specialized techniques. In fact, nobody in the world does this better than the Jewish State.
(end quote)
***********
{A personal observation: Do I believe my lying eyes?
Do I recall seeing Jewish settlers forcibly removed from their homes in both Gaza and the West Bank on many occasions? There was no “Palestine” before the 1948 partition. The imposed agreement gave Arab populations an unequal boost, allowing any immigrant who had been there for two years rights
to claim Palestinian citizenship. They stayed, they
multiplied, they lacked cohesion and leadership generally essential to a nation-state. They have never moved beyond that level, yet demand the status
of other viable, self-sustaining entities. The stronger Arab states use Palestine as a stick to beat Israel routinely. Look at the bigger picture to find solutions. I see the left/right nexus in play for global supremacy. This is not rocket science.}

Out of one side of their mouths, they speak of peace and compromise, while all the time secretly gathering locations to bomb when the time is right.

Gimme a frikkin break.

Some people believe anything that agrees with whatever they thought to begin with, with no concern/regard for why they might be manipulated in doing so.

Remember when our own government told us Saddam was throwing babies on the floor, after yanking them out of incubators?

It was all bullshit, never happened, but publicized just to get the American people to support Gulf War I to “save” Kuwait (who was, by the way, slant drilling into Iraq’s oil fields).

The young girl who told us that story?

She was the daughter of the Kuwaiti Ambassador to the US, carefully coached by public relations firms on her story, and had never even been IN Iraq.

Half the stuff Ron posts is propaganda.

He just doesn’t know it.

Jesus probably looked more like Osama Bin Laden than he looked like you.
Both were Semites.

Try learning something, dear.

I refuse to read an article or believe in one that is written as an opinion, and which speaks about Ariel The Bulldozer Sharon forcing people to leave settlements.

This is a man who got the nickname from bulldozing homes/apartments in Gaza & West bank, helping to create these settlements. Illegal settlements.

Don’t give him a pat on the back for ending but SOME of the settlements, when he was on who help to create them.

I saw the people being made to leave the settlements. Yes, it was sad to me to a point. But I felt they never should have been there anyway. What gave them the right to be there in the first place? They were illegally there.

I also saw the bulldozers bulldozing homes, and aparatment buildings – creating more settlements in Gaza/West Bank. I saw an old woman going through the rubble of what was once her apartment, looking for her medication. That was more sad to me to watch because she wasn’t illegally there.

I also saw the building of a new illegal settlement. A couple from New York overseeing the building of their new home on Palestinian land, saying “This is OUR land”.

candymarl, R U retard?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWiXy55OHyY