puma hate and anti-semitism…
By American Girl in Italy on January 8, 2009 at 8:10 AM in Anti-Semitism, Jews
[ADMIN NOTE: While American Girl's analogy is prone to misinterpretation, she goes to great lengths to ensure that every reader knows she understands that there is no comparison between the actual suffering of the Jewish people compared to that of Pumas.
ALSO: Someone used multiple usernames, fake e-mail addresses, and multiple IP numbers to spam this comment area. I wanted to write an e-mail to have a calm discussion with the person, but that's not possible because I can't write to fake e-mail addresses. If you wish to undo your suspension, you have to e-mail me at susanunpc at gmail dot com, and we will discuss this rationally. No one is permitted to use fake e-mail addresses if for no other reason than we need, sometimes, to be able to e-mail you! We ALWAYS prefer a resolution to suspension, but you have to make yourself available by using a legitimate e-mail address (which NO ONE ELSE sees except Larry and me).]
Is puma the new jew – a people persecuted for their beliefs, and eventually for their failure to fall in line, and follow the chosen one?
Now, I am not saying that PUMAS have been subjected to the horrors of the holocaust, or the years and years of persecution, but I thought it was a snappy intro that might grab your attention.
I started this post with the intent of trying to better understand the current Israel/Hamas conflict, by creating *what if’s*. I thought if I brought the concepts *home* I might be able to better understand the anger and outrage coming from both sides. The process, and research led me to thinking about the hate directed towards one group for holding beliefs different than the majority, which brings me to the comment, *is puma the new jew*.
For example, following 9/11, do I think the US had a right to launch a nuclear attack on Al Qaeda territory? The attack on 9/11 was massive, devastating, and had lasting effects, and still does. Would I have approved of a massive attack, including dropping a nuclear bomb in the heart of Afghanistan, or Pakistan, or wherever they were hiding? Honestly, for about 30 seconds, I probably would have ok’d it. But, too many innocent lives would have been lost, and as much damage 9/11 did, I would never want to inflict that kind of damage on innocent civilians.
Or, another example. Take Iraq. Thousands, hundreds of thousands?, of Iraqi civilians have died because of the US decision to invade and drive Saddam from power. There has been massive devastation to the infrastructure and massive amounts of casualties. Do the Iraqi people have a justification to drop a nuclear bomb in the US? They have been living in a war zone for 6 years. Now, I know that a lot of the fighting has been coming from al Qaeda and Iraqi resistance but I also see on TV a lot of Iraqis who view the US as occupiers. Would they be justified in a massively disproportionate response like a nuclear bomb? (My answer would be no, btw.)
Or how about, as Wright said, the idea that on 9/11 our *chickens came home to roost*. The US, however you feel about our foreign policy, is viewed as having done a lot of good, and a lot of bad, around the world. Al Qaeda, who believe the US has done a lot of bad in the world flew planes into the Twin Towers, Pentagon, and attempted into the White house or Capital, killing thousands of civilians. Should that be viewed as a proportional or non-proportional attack on the US? Sure seemed non-proportional to me! We are told that Al Qaeda attacked us for our continued influence in Muslim countries, and the US support of Israel. Apparently, after years of (perceived?) intrusive behavior from the US, they launched a massive assault on the US. Osama Bin laden said he was first inspired to attack the United States by the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon in which towers and buildings in Beirut were destroyed in the siege of the capital. (Personally, I don’t think it is possible to provide rational thought to religious extremists.)
Anyway, these are scenarios I kicked around in my brain, trying to come to an understanding of the Israeli/Hamas conflict. As I was pondering these scenarios, my mind wandered to why Hamas, and all Muslim countries want to eliminate Israel’s existence. Why do Muslims hate Jews? Is it just based on their religious beliefs? I ask because Jews have been persecuted throughout history, long before the UN decision in ‘47. Or is it because the UN established the Partition Plan for Palestine (which I don’t think they were too happy about)? Or more so because Israel fought, and expanded their borders beyond the Partition Plan? Or has Israel done things to Muslim countries? (I’m asking.)
I don’t understand, and am trying to, the reasons at the heart of the attacks on Israel, and the passionate defense of either side, on this web site, and around the world. Is Israel 100% without fault, and innocent, suffering at the hands of terrorist attacks, and within their right to respond as they are, on Gaza? (I’m asking.) Is their any validity in the attacks by Hamas, and Muslim countries as to their hatred of Israel? (I’m asking.) Heck, should the Partition Plan even have happened, and was it *legal*? And if so, I would assume that Israel does have the right to exist, and they are being terrorized. Is there anything that will resolve this situation? Will redrawing the borders back to the 1947 Plan work? What??
Anyway, from there, I started thinking about Jewish people in Israel, and how they live in such a small country surrounded by countries that hate them. And I was, as I said above, trying to figure out the reasons why. I know it has been written about, blogged about, talked about, to death, but I like to simplify things so I understand them.
I was reading around in the blogosphere, and reading a lot of other blogs, especially ones attacking Larry for his comments about the disproportionate response by Israel (which labeled him anti-Semitic and got rather ugly and nasty) I found myself reading lots of hateful posts about PUMAS. Honestly, I was shocked. Now, having lived through the past year or two, blogging and commenting about my support for Hillary, and initial like, but growing dislike for all things Obama, I knew there was lots of anger towards Hillary supporters.
I have written many times before, that from the day I eagerly logged on, put my fingers to the keys, and proudly wrote, *I support Hillary.* I was attacked, called a racist, and worse. (And, I even liked Obama in the beginning. Didn’t know anything about him, but thought he looked interesting, and wanted to get to know more. It was when I began to learn more, that I fell out of favor.)
The divide in the Dem party grew and grew, with Hillary supporters frustration and anger growing as the primary went on, and the hatred spewing from the Obama supporters worsening. Hillary supporters (and yes, not all are perfect. There were some racist comments made by a small group of people, and yes, some even got nasty, but I think as a whole, people just believed that Hillary was the best candidate – and there were some who were for Edwards in the beginning, and when he dropped out, they preferred Hillary over Obama) were, dare I say, victimized because they weren’t buying into the One. We became disenchanted with our party, outraged at the tactics used, the racist cards thrown, the death threats, etc. And personally, the way the media behaved, woke me from my liberal media bubble and made me re-evaluate the way I saw the Right, and the past eight years. I didn’t become *an angry puma* until I was subjected over and over again to attacks for my support of my candidate, and watched the primary unfold, and the attacks on my candidate.
Now, as I peruse the blogosphere, I am appalled at so many attacks on PUMAS. I don’t even want to say PUMAS, but Hillary supporters. There were so many different PUMA factions, and different *leaders* and groups, and blogs, that it never really became a well-oiled organization. It was just a whole lot of pissed off voters, who didn’t like what they saw happening, and tried to take a stand, and make their voices heard, as quickly as possible. Some more so than others, some till the day they die. Honestly, even though I called myself a PUMA, I never really followed any of the groups, I just rejected Obama, and the Democrat party, and found others, like me.
Now, this brings me all the way back to my beginning, *is puma the new jew*. A people persecuted for their beliefs, and eventually for their failure to fall in line, and follow the chosen one.
To bring Judaism into modern times, the last 2000 years, Jews rejected Jesus as the son of God, which was a major turning point in western history. Jesus was a major game changer in our history. The acceptance of Jesus changed things politically and religiously.
Personally, I see this more so in a political arena, than a religious one, of the Jewish elders reluctance to Jesus as the son of God. I think they saw him as gaining a huge following, and gaining strength as a leader. Perhaps they just didn’t believe him, or what he claimed, or perhaps they were afraid of losing power. But Jesus arrived at a time ripe for change. He had garnered a huge following. Some people chose to believe he was *The Chosen One*, the Savior, the Holy One, and others didn’t. Jesus was a Jew, so he wasn’t some stranger from a strange land. He was one of them. But he divided the *party*. Those who followed him, and those who didn’t, whatever the reasons.
But, whatever the reason, they did not accept that Jesus was the savior. They didn’t believe or accept that he was The Chosen One, or sent down from God, as his son, and they have paid for their beliefs ever since.
But wasn’t that their right? To reject an idea or belief of someone else? To reject someone who claims to be the *chosen one* the *one we have been waiting for*? If you don’t believe that this one, is the one, is that not your right?
If you find fault in someone, or try to bring to light something you see as false, isn’t that your right? If you believe, with all of your being, that something is not right, and that what someone is selling is not worthy of buying, isn’t it your right to reject it, to speak out about it?
Why must we hate those who disagree, and speak out for what they believe?
I wrote an email to some friends yesterday about how we have been divided, and I feel lost in the middle somewhere, attacked or offended from both sides, sometimes. I am no longer a Democrat, or Republican, but independent. I read many conservative sites now, but still feel a bit offended every so often, when I read an attack on climate change, or on Hillary or Bill, or on gay marriage, etc. And I can’t enjoy liberal sites anymore, they are too biased towards Obama, or were too vicious during the primary for me to return, or continue to attack Hillary supporters. And I don’t trust them anymore. So, what to do? I am not going to just roll over and give in and start drinking the kool-aid…. especially when the Obama supporters are (slowly) starting to see the light! But if you take a spin in the liberal blogo-zone, you will get the point I am trying to make about all the nasty hate being lobbed our way.
So, for all the haters who will want to jump on me, and say that I am comparing/putting on a level playing field, the hatred towards pumas to the persecution of Jews, calm down. I’m not.
But, I did garner a bit of understanding into what it must feel like, as a Jewish person (and I am talking about Jewish people as individuals, not as a country, and discussing their politics), to be a relative minority, that chose a belief different than the majority, and to be hated for that choice. And not just hated, but to be attacked, and to be wished extinct. Just for believing in something different.
It sucks. And it’s sad.
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Yeah, um… no. Blog-wars between overexcited (and anonymous) folks on the internet isn’t even in the same ballpark as ethnic hate. I know there’s a persecution complex that keeps some of you folks motivated, but… c’mon now.
Did you MISS the second paragraph??
“Now, I am not saying that PUMAS have been subjected to the horrors of the holocaust, or the years and years of persecution, but I thought it was a snappy intro that might grab your attention.”
thanks!
and they not only missed the second paragraph, but the last two paragraphs as well.
It’s not a question of missing the second paragraph, or the last two (I read the whole thing). It’s a question of the validity of your analogy as a whole.
Anti-semitism, and ethnic hate in general, dehumanizes the target group and seeks to deny them fundamental human rights, on the implicit grounds that they are not, in fact, human.
What has happened to PUMAs is quite different. You’ve been on the losing side of a political argument, and are now subject to no small amount of ridicule (some of which may be fair, some of which is certainly not). That is not the same as being dehumanized, or even hated. Nobody’s denying you all your right to speak, or dissent, or whatever want to call what it is you do. We’re just laughing at your because, well, you’re pretty funny.
And sorry for the (very) late response; it’s been an abysmally busy day for me.
Oh, and honest to God, I’m nobody’s sock puppet. I don’t doubt that there are some running around here, but I prefer to speak for myself and be accountable for what I say. Also, I don’t have the time or inclination to post much around here.
You know ass oh darn I meant ahs your like most little men,or women,who can’t stand to have an idea of “YOURS” opposed.But thats OK we PUMA’S will have the last laugh,so you just keep chuckling.Because your messiah “CHANGE” man is picking the finest cabinet from the old boys club from past administrations,oh do you suppose that this is the pay off for being anointed the nominee by the DNC and not”WE THE PEOPLE”? You see “WE THE PEOPLE” placed 18,000,000 plus votes on a candidate who should have been “ELECTED” to the office of POTUS.And ass oh darn there I goofed again I meant ahs you just keep snickering “BECAUSE CHANGE IS GOING TO BITE YOUR AHS”oh darn another mistake I meant,well you know.
Darrell Reed
PUMA PAC INDEPENDENT DEMOCRAT= BRAINS
test
OK, just making sure there was some reason my previous post didn’t post (I’m not suspended, because I’m not anybody’s sock puppet). So here’s the short version of it.
First: sorry for late response, it’s been a crazy busy day.
At any rate – I read the whole thing, and didn’t miss anything. I’m just objecting to your analogy as a whole. Ethnic hate (anti-semitism or whatever kind) dehumanizes people and seeks to deny them human rights because it implies that they are not in fact human. What has happened to PUMAs isn’t the same.
You folks lost a political argument, and are now ridiculed (often unfairly, sometimes not). Nobody’s denying that you have a right to speak/dissent/whatever. We’re just laughing at you for it, because a lot of the time it’s pretty darn funny.
can’t make longer posts… what the heck?
Perhaps trolls are only alloted a specific number of words. Apparently you have exceeded yours. Too bad.
Hmm. Scale of 1-10, how amused am I by stifling dissent like this, especially given the topic of this thread? (Hint: 11)
Then leave, troll.
I guess that’s the point, huh? I’m up to 14 or 15 now. Self-awareness much?
Yours isn’t dissent–it is hogwash disguised as irrelevant, inarticulate thought. Oops, my bad–they are the same things–never mind, troll.
Your self-awareness consists in its entirety of your next reboot and upgrade at BotHQ, obamatron.
Really? You have something you object to in my reasoning? Feel free to spell it out, and I’ll respond. I didn’t not much here other than name-calling, which last I checked didn’t win you jack squat in an argument.
Cheers.
I’ve seen your bloviating here more often that I care to remember. Yours is nothing more than prepackaged pablum which came straight from botHQ to your keyboard. One does not argue with a gainsaying, goose-stepping troll like you–it is like arguing with a rock, except the rock has some redeeming qualities in that it has some weight, unlike you, cream puff.
Try selling you wretched rubbish where they appreciate the stench of real garbage. There are any number of sites dedicated solely to the adoration of That One and can use crap like yours to satisfy the needs of their herd.
Nice… response? Interestingly enough, this is maybe the fourth or fifth day in my entire life that I’ve posted comments here, and just the second in the last, oh, six months (the other one being Tuesday). Can’t imagine that’s really “more often than you care to remember”, even if you have a vanishingly low tolerance for people who don’t share your opinion.
Anyway, feel free to respond above to my disagreement with the analogy. Yours in infinite patience,
ahs
Let’s see, those days you posted were rife with your blather. If you like, I’ll direct you to them, toodles. You may have only been here a few times but those times you were her you posted lots of hogwash which was mostly gainsay. So my statement is correct–you bloviate often, I’ve seen it, and your posts are nothing more than claptrap. Your patience is not my concern and your sarcasm is bush-league. I can turn mine up a notch, should you be so inclined.
What you need to do is find one of those Oblockhead love-fest sites where the sky is a lovely shade of green, matching your gullibility and where the discussions center around topics that fit your intellect–like where to find pairs of jeans that might or might not fit your butt and where you can get your toenails trimmed, troll.
Ferd…You owe me a new monitor. I just spit vino at mine. LOL LOL LOL…where DO you come up with this stuff? I swear, you should be a comedy writer. I mean it.
Fixed. I’m good. Still at about a 12, FWIW, but admins are cool.
Well, if you are going to hang around here, crapstain from hell, can you maybe make some interesting comments or something? I must say you’re a little boring tonight.
Y-A-W-N
ahs is one of the lower IQ obamatrons, version 0, running at about 45, otherwise it would be on the transition team trying to make souffle from a crock of manure.
ahs (asshat) maybe you are banned???
Ahs what test are refering to?knowlege of politics,or the ability to get ones head out of ones AHS???
the things I have heard leveled at anyone who wouldn’t support BO is not overexcitement. It’s called HATE. Persecution complex? Ummm, you’ve got the wrong group.
Oh Goodie…Asshat is here. Why are the trolls out so early? Hmmmm…I thought they only came out in their little pairs at night.
American Girl In Italy,
I did disagree a little with a couple minor points of yours, but all in all I am really glad you wrote this.
The issue of the I/P crisis and the ongoing issue of the marginalization and general whomping on those with minority opintions are two huge topics that need to be addressed.
Any original way to look at what is going on is of great benefit.
I will add one note and that is the fact that
many of the disaffected dems have now become
as intolerant and as stiffling of discourse as the obots were.
For some reason, their brains have completely fried over the I/P situation.. and anyone questioning Israel is to be marginalized, attacked, etc. It’s ironic, it’s sad, it’s disgusting… and damned if it isn’t once again that the oppressed are becoming the oppressors.
It truly boggles the mind.
Time for another edition of “Name That Troll” Which of the following is ahs also known by?
A. (Little) Debbie
B. Kelvin
C. Se
D. ee
E. All of the above
Only one response per commenter, please.
What about sfhillary? and remember “believe”? LOL
LOL. I forgot about those two pinheads.
How about Fritzee or Deborah “the author”
Stop the lovefest!
OMG–Thanks Donna.
Stop the Trolls
Amen, Sister, Amen!
Aren’t Concerned Citizen and Camden Rave trolls too? I say asshat (ahs) is also Space Junk actually.
OBIAF:
You are spot on, but it took me three days to figure out how to word the post without being scrubbed by the Content Constabulary, which happened at least 14 different times when I tried to post against these trolls earlier. I had to eliminate a lot of troll monikers just to get it to post. This was the best I could do.
I actually have a fairly lenthy treatise about these bots that woud never pass muster here. Bots are the internet equivelent of Baghdad Bob.
LMAO Ferd. You kill me. Baghdad Bob? OMFG.
We should have a really fun open thread dedicated to trolls some time. Might be good for some humor. We could even have a 2008 Troll of the Year Award. Someone go ask Susan LOL.
We really should–it would be fun; the trolls would stay away in droves; and everyone could have a good laugh at the expense of something that deserves our complete attention and derision, if only for a moment in time. I’m all for it.
I feel the way that you do American Girl about not fully enjoying either side’s opinions, although I do believe that this whole trip has offered me an opportunity to pick and choose which aspects of each philosophy I feel are useful.
The most eye-opening aspect of the past year has been the unmasking of those who have prided themselves as liberal, open-minded and tolerant and who are anything but.
The most eye-opening aspect of the past year has been the unmasking of those who have prided themselves as liberal, open-minded and tolerant and who are anything but.
Exactly!!! One of my best friends growing up wrote me asking me to support Oblahma, and I wrote back saying that I was supporting Hillary or McCain (and explained why), and he said, “well, I guess that’s expected from someone in KY.” (nevermind the fact I grew up down the block from him in MI.!)
I’ve been called every name in the book for not supporting “The One”.
Absolutely.
Most Democrats (with the exception of those few faithful true Democrats who still give a damn about all people) exposed their true identities in 2008 – as misogynistic, phony, hateful, greedy, sneaky and hypocritical politicians. Traits that I once ignorantly thought only most Republican politicians had. I have definitely learned my lesson.
Perhaps it is a fear of losing power. Obamas people know deep inside they cannot hold onto this wave forever. They attack in the hopes of pressureing us to fold to their demands. And they fear that we were right about Hillary being the better candidate. In order to counter that fear they demonize us. In regards to Israel and Hammas its a much similar and much deeper problem. I really cannot say how I would react if my land was taken away, land that I needed to feed my family, without my consent and my friends, family, and neighbors, killed. But I imagine I would hate too.
As I understand the “Party Unity My Ass” movement, such as it is, it was started over at The Confluence by Riverdaughter and others as a response to the notion that the Democratic nominee should be supported by all Democrats no matter who it might be. It was an angry response to the MSM’s treatment of Hillary Clinton, caucus fraud and DNC unfairness, and a recognition of the unsupportable misogyny of Barack Obama’s new Democratic party. It gradually coalesced into a very general “movement” of all sorts of folks who shared the common goal of defeating Barack Obama, and there were Independents and moderate Republicans who counted themselves as PUMA.
Although it is not a good analogy to compare anger towards PUMAs to hatred of Jews, it is interesting to me that Democrats who support Barack Obama are much more angry at PUMAs as former Democrat non-believers in O’s psuedo-divinity than they are at Republicans or Independents who also voted against The One. It is because PUMAs are regarded as traitors to the Anointed Leader, whereas Repubs and Indies are not.
To elaborate: the greatest animosity of cult members is directed at former cult members who have broken away from the common belief. The former cult members have the inside look at the weaknesses of the belief system, and so pose the greatest threat to their group-think solidarity. Inasmuch as the Obama Faithful taking over the Democratic Party become a cult, their greatest animosity is directed at the PUMAs, who broke away.
For backtrack’s supporters it must be very hard to explain ” we don’t need the people just get the checks”
How do you follow someone who has nothing but contempt for you?
He now has been appointed and already is telling the democrats in the Senate they are expendable.
He believes he answers to no one , not the congress and not the people.
WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE
This makes a great deal of sense.
“Is puma the new jew…”
Oh sweet Jesus! The victim-fantasies of feminism are the gifts that keep on giving!
U go (away) grrrl!!!
Comment by Haoli-haoli | 2009-01-08 08:41:14
“Is puma the new jew…”
Haoli you are not only racist! (probably against whites)
but you are proving to also be
Oh sweet Jesus! an atheist AND
a HUGEEEEE misogynist (and probably quite sadistic)
gee doesn’t that make YOU special! pffffft NOT!
——————————————————–
there you go my free analysis pour vous!!!
FREE FREE FREE (just like your blathering tripe)
got nothing nice to say? say nothing!! Didn’t you trolls have MOMS????
what freaks you trolls are (pitiful)
btw TROLL
that “got nothing nice to say” thing seems to have been followed quite precisely by BAMBI’s OWN GRANDMOTHER!!
HAD NOTHING GOOD TO SAY ABOUT HER NASTY GRANDSON AND DIED RATHER THAN CHEER HIS WIN ANYWHERE!!!!!
THAT mr TROLL is NOTTTTTTT even CLOSE to normal!
It’s rather scary! I try not to dwell on it but I am quite sure that WOMAN had a LOT she COULD have said about her criminal drug addled loser grandson!
jmo but I’m quite sure I’m close to the mark on this one! I’ve seen ZERO proof otherwise and the WORM won’t work this time!!
Hey Lady D!
Wise words and true!
Don’t they know kool-aid causes WORMS?
cp7;)
How did you read that into the post?
He sees things as they ain’t.
Which should explain everything.
That, and he’s the dumbest human on earth.
…and this is the ignorant, hateful s— that women all over the world have to deal with on a daily basis. Hatred and abuse from sexist males (not men – they don’t deserve “man” status.)
Glad I popped in early. PUMA’s ROCK!!!! They hold a special place in my heart for EVER!!!
Screw the loonies who can’t HANDLE the truth!
you said, “Anyway, these are scenarios I kicked around in my brain, trying to come to an understanding of the Israeli/Hamas conflict. As I was pondering these scenarios, my mind wandered to why Hamas, and all Muslim countries want to eliminate Israel’s existence. Why do Muslims hate Jews?”
Boy you sure aren’t the only one and it’s amazing how many of us are kicking around the same thoughts. WE SHOULD form our OWN group!!! Seems there are a LOT of us! YAY!
You are brave to wander to other nasty websites to read their tripe. I won’t give them any business.
Thanks for the PUMA shout out!! I’m still looking for a purple PUMA bumpersticker!
I HEART PUMA
“…it’s amazing how many of us are kicking around the same thoughts.”
Hey look! A Ho-ho!
wtf?
editing as well as insult as well as deleting?
steal my name
little trollies having fits
but who really is the troll now I wonder?
Puma is the new jew….Oy.
Comeon.
I consider myself a “puma,” but I don’t subscribe to that premise in the least. First of all, such a thesis presupposes that all pumas–and all Jews–are part of a monolithic group, which is ridiculous on its face. Second of all, it presupposes that Jews and pumas are victims.
I’m annoyed with some former puma sites these days because their worldview is every bit as limited as the worldview of DailyKos and other formerly progressive blogs. Moreover, pumas have begun to exhibit the very same community “group-think” which further limits their worldview.
When any blog or community succumbs to “group think” in order to propagandize its members, is when I begin to see myself on the other side of a divide and begin to probe the limits of their truth boundaries.
Why? Because the hypocrisy of communities quickly becomes clear, when the sole aim becomes to exclude information or dissent in order to protect the “group” by creating the myth of victimization. The ancient art of “we-they.” Creating “the other” which threatens the “community.”
Mountainairs:
You might not have made it this far in the post, so I just wanted to point it out:
“So, for all the haters who will want to jump on me, and say that I am comparing/putting on a level playing field, the hatred towards pumas to the persecution of Jews, calm down. I’m not.
But, I did garner a bit of understanding into what it must feel like, as a Jewish person (and I am talking about Jewish people as individuals, not as a country, and discussing their politics), to be a relative minority, that chose a belief different than the majority, and to be hated for that choice. And not just hated, but to be attacked, and to be wished extinct. Just for believing in something different.”
Do you think NQ has become group think?
Perhaps I was feeling a bit of a victim yesterday, after reading so many hateful posts and comments directed at pumas. as i said, it was shocking.
Sara, your article did what it was supposed to do: it stirred the pot and excited discussion (some of it angry, of course). Good job!
thank you!
Exactly.
I am not criticising your intentions or sincerity, but being Jewish is not about making a choice. Being a religious Jew IS a choice, but you are still a Jew whether you are religious or not. And this is a difference that needs to be recognised in making the comparison. Being a non-practising Jew has never made any difference in times of fervent anti-semitism. The Dreyfus affair is one example, without, of course, getting into the Holocaust.
I always wondered about that…. If you are a non practicing Jew, why wouldn’t you say you were Israeli, or Israeli American, or wherever your ancestors are from? Is it a religion, or heritage or both? Saying you are Jewish, I assumed was like saying you are Catholic. And saying you are Israeli is being from Israel, but not necessarily Jewish. (which is one of the reasons I used Jewish for this, and not, for example, an ethnicity, because I was trying to equate it to *beliefs* In my opinion, it is ridiculous to *hate* people for their beliefs, whatever they are…as well as skin color, or sex. But like I said, I was trying to make a point about being hated for your beliefs)
And as for my comments about making a choice, about not accepting Jesus as the savior, was for the point that Jews have been persecuted for not accepting Jesus.
But I agree about whether you are a practicing Jew or not, there is still anti-semitism.
American Girl: My Mother is Jewish but does not consider herself an Israeli. On the contrary, she considers herself an American, a citizenship she earned in the early 1950s. As far as she is concerned, Israel does not represent all Jews any more than Saudi Arabia and the Wahabis represent all Moslems. Contrary to popular belief, it is not an entirely monolithic culture/religion. There are Orthodox, Conservative, and Reformed Jews, each of which hold differing points of view on any number of issues concerning dogma.
well, that makes sense. there are jewish people from all over the world. and not all jewish people are from Israel. I know a lot of people that like to tell what their hertitage is, i.e. I am scottish and italian. And jewish people always say Jewish (the ones I know). I always wondered why they say Jewish, and not Israeli and italian, or French and German, or whatever. I always thought it a religion, not a heritage.
Jews are a people. By orthodox tradition, if your mother is a Jew, you are too. The contemporary standard tends to be more relaxed about the need for matrilineal descent. You’re considered Jewish if you’re born into a Jewish family, whether or not you follow the religion. In another category are people who have Jewish ancestry in various degrees; usually they follow the religion if they consider themselves Jews. Converts are followers of the religion. Jews who feel that Jews are a nation as well as a people identify strongly with Israel, but many Jews do not. I noticed that another poster called herself Hebrew. That is another way of stating the ethnic identity that your are born with.
I wasn’t reacting to anything in your post, which I think is thoughtful, just the comment you made above that mentions “choosing.” It’s a little complicated, and in a way I guess you do choose the degree of Jewishness you want to embrace, but if you are born to Jewish parents you’re a Jew whether you like it or not. Catholicism does not define believers as part of a specific tribe or people, so you can quit being one. Jews are stuck!
Thanks for your reply, and I appreciate all of your comments, and the explanation.
As my sister in law says, she is a MOB – member of the tribe. ;O)
Andrew – I was thinking about this last night. Where I was coming from, as far as choice, was the decision of the Jewish people that Jesus was not the son of God, which divided the Jews. Those who followed Jesus, becoming Christians, those who didn’t, remained Jewish. correct? (Or am I completely lost?)
Anyway – where I was going with *choice* was by that decision, Christians grew and grew, and Jews are a minority. The religion has continued and the major difference between Jews and Christians is the belief whether Jesus is the son of God or not.
I was thinking in terms of the violence towards Jews, such as blaming them for *killing jesus*. Because, to me, it does NOT make sense for a Christian to hate a Jew, just for being Jewish. Jesus was Jewish. So, I figured the *hate* must be for their beliefs that Jesus is not the savior.
The hate that we saw through modern history is baffling – (thinking of a film I like, School Ties, where kids described Jewish people as having horns etc.) What is that crap? Again, Jesus was jewish… hello! Now, the hatred we saw during the holocaust…that was a race issue, wasn’t it? the blonde hair, blue eye craziness. So, any *imperfect* person was targeted, not just Jews. (but then again, that is crazy, because Jesus was jewish, but I don’t think hitler was a sane person…and, there are discrepencies as to whether he was actually christian or not.)
I still am trying to fully understand the islam/jewish issue. Is it religious, political, territorial, racial?
So, back to your points about *choice*. Yes, I get your points about the hate towards Jewish people for being Jewish (which sounds more racist, then religios) and it is ridiculous. Especially if the hate is coming from a *christ*ian. Again, Jesus being a Jew and all.
And for people to hate Jews, as some sort of blame game, that is ridiculous as well. Especially since it happened 2000 years ago.
Now, if people hate Israel for the land dispute, or other political reasons, that is a little different. Not saying it is right, but it sounds a least a little more rational than the other two situations. But, I think when people *hate on* Israel, it isn’t necessarily anti-semitic. At least in the sense that they hate ALL jewish people. I could be wrong, but those issues sound political, not racial or religious. (like I don’t like Obama, but it isn’t about race, it is about his politics)
So, back to the *choice* issue. My comments that Jewish people have been persecuted for a choice – it was the choice 2000 years ago, to not believing Jesus was the son of god. And through that choice, the Jewish religion continues today. (and then of course, people from other parts of the world became Christians, and followed the *teachings of Christ*, and moved from temples and idols, and mythology, etc.)
Ihave no idea if that makes sense. It was keeping me up all night… The whole point I was trying to make, hate is wrong.
You are spot on, Andrew. While being the son of a Jewish Mother and therefore a Jew, I am not practicing. A lot of people do not understand how Judaism works and the role of the Mother. Thank you for your post.
Sara
There many things I could say on why I am a PUMA.
Evil flourishes if good people do nothing.
I did not speak out when they came for the Jews.
I did not speak out when they came for the unions
there was no one to speak out when they came for me.
These are paraphrased but I believe that it is my duty to speak out against fraud in elections.
What happened this year diminishes democracy.
Even if it were someone other than obama I would still speak out.
Too many fought and died over the years to keep the election process in this country fair, how could I just accept fraud and not speak out.
My country and principals will always come before my party.
Like many others I have children and grandchildren and great grandchildren who will benefit from fair elections and be harmed by unfair elections.
WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE
AMEN.
american girl, your title certainly got my attention. and as usual your thoughts are deep and evoke responses. that can’t be a bad thing!
American Girl,
I’m sorry if I was, well, a bit sarcastic. I didn’t mean to be insulting to you personally for your thesis, it’s true that PUMAs have been in for more than their share of derision. I should have included that in my comment.
I haven’t been perusing many progressive sites lately, and have been reading more econ-blogs than politics, so I may have missed the latest outburst of scorn. I did see at Confluence that there’s a bru-ha-ha with Wonkette over the Webblog awards, and the rhetoric has gotten pretty heated over it all.
No Quarter is definitely NOT the site I was describing. I was referring to Confluence. I have had the unfortunate and disturbing experience lately at Riverdaughter’s place of having a moderator alter my comments–actually inserting their own propaganda into my comment in the form of statements from the Israeli Information Ministry.
My name was on that comment. So, I don’t appreciate Shtuey or anyone else at Confluence inserting language into my comment that I did not include. They could have posted their own comment, certainly, with the information they wanted to convey. Instead they inserted their propaganda into MY COMMENT.
I am grateful that NQ keeps an open comments section and doesn’t get hysterical about differences of opinion. Larry responds passionately to commenters and that is fine with me. He doesn’t go into someone else’s comment and exchange their words with his own. That is completely over the top.
I_Was_Infuriated about what happened at Confluence, and I still am, so that colored my comment to you a bit. I may disagree with something you say, but I don’t mean to disparage you personally at all.
I have cast only one vote at the Webblogs award site and that was to vote for No Quarter. I won’t participate further in any of the ludicrous hate or vicious actions going on over these “awards” at any of the sites. It’s so juvenile and ludicrous. I didn’t realize people were actually threatening people over this thing. I want no part of it.
I don’t think you were insulting! i appreciate the debate. I just wanted to make sure you saw the last lines that i wrote. i knew it would open me up to criticism…but i wanted to open up a debate.
and i agree with you on this award situation. following those threads is what really got me thinking about the hatin’ going on.
thanks for checking back in. but, i had no problem with your post. :O)
I am a Hebrew and a PUMA. I hope we PUMAs do not suffer the fate of the Hebrews.
As an Atheist I do not like to call myself a Jew but my race, culture stems from the Hebrew traditions.
I do not think the Israel Palestinian conflict has one wee bit to do with religious hatred. It is about money, power, oil and kings holding onto their kingdoms.
Palestine is just a pawn the Kings and Sheiks use to keep their enslaved people distracted. It is the reason for Bin-Laden too. All great dictators and kings have needed a common enemy to keep the people from seeing their true enemy. Those kings and sheiks and so-called presidents don’t want this conflict to end. Peace would lead to an end of their easy life.
This has been my belief as well. Which makes everyone a target while they keep the status quo.
Thank you for words of sanity, NH. I’m horrified with the so-called liberals’ ignorance on Hamas/Palestine. Israel may be fighting an unwinable war but to pitch the Palestinians as innocent victims is beyond stupid.
I know what you mean about the hate. I decided to check out all of the nominees in the Weblog Awards 2008 last evening. I spent hours reading blogs in all categories. There is a LOT of hate out there, and it exists on BOTH sides. I hope that we are all able to step back for a few moments and think about all of this hate that is being spread around. It is not a good thing…I had never visited Rumproast before this, and my eyes have been opened as to the amount, depth, and breadth of the mistrust and hatred towards PUMAs. Then I can go to Confluence, a usual hangout, and read the hate in the comments there. This is sad. I thank the people at Weblog Awards for allowing me this opportunity to see for the first time that Bots and PUMAs are equally guilty of spreading hate…I am a PUMA, and from this point forward, I make a pledge to be kind, respectful, and loving towards others. A mighty task, I know, but it has to begin somewhere. The attempt is at least a start. We all need a world with more love.
Hey NH! Now this is something that makes (sadly) some sense! DAmn cynical but probably at least half true.
sigh
Peace to all
PUMA and NoQTR bloggers (sans the trolls) are STELLAR!!
W00T!!
out
I have forced myself to read Larry’s posts on the conflict, as well as the comments, trying to be more informed.
I became more angry.
While human rights, womens’ rights, civil rights, gay rights are all worthy topics, I give “no quarter” to persons who abuse, terrorize, maim, and kill innocent children.
They should ride the express elevator to hell!
I may be blitzed and banned, but I will not apologize!
What utter tripe! Comparing PUMA to Jewish or Palestinian suffering? LMAO!
And who pray tell is “persecuting” PUMAS? As far as I can tell, the PUMAS gave as good as they got during the primaries, and became utterly irrelevant from the moment HRC endorsed Obama in June.
What proof do I have? OBAMA won!!! By the largest margin in 20 years. Scoreboard…look it up.
And one more thing. Might I recommend signing up for a short essay course at your local community college. This post read more like a stream of disjointed consciencouseness rather than a cogent argument.
Ciao!
On the contrary, yours is utter tripe, troll. You know nothing of history or the consequences of standing idly by. You got your Anointed One selected and he will soon be squatting in the WH, so why bother us? Probably because deep-down inside your tiny little heart, you’re pissed at yourself for actually falling for That One’s confidence game and that you were had, deluxe. Too bad for you, butthead.
Take your delusional, ill-informed ass and go sit down somewhere and shut up.
George W. Bush “won” his first election eight years ago – just like Obama “won” his nomination.
GWB’s presidency was s—.
So will Obama’s presidency be.
Same s— – different toilet.
That’s how it starts. And grows. Leaders silence their critics before moving on to suppression if they don’t shut up. Pumas are at the beginning while anti-Semitism didn’t start with Hitler and it didn’t stop after Hitler was defeated.
The kind of hatred we have experienced with Muslim terrorists is an equal opportunity killer that strikes at all nations and races who don’t share their religious ideology. These terrorists go by different names and are from different countries but they all share a common goal – to eliminate any person who was not a Muslim. We know that was the goal in the Mumbai terrorist attack because the terrorists told us so in their communication and from the survivors. The difference between the Muslim terrorists and Israel is that we don’t see Jewish terrorists becoming suicide bombers, blowing up buildings and killing hostages in other countries. And not all Muslims share the radical believe that all Jews must die; but they can’t be heard over the screams of the terrorists. For peace to exist, these Muslims must take control because peace will never be negotiated from the launching of missiles until there is no one left to launch them.
We have our own history of dark spots (the only good Indian is a dead Indian, slavery, women’s second class citizenship) to live down and I thought we had made progress until 2008 when it all came tumbling down with vile words and deeds from the guy installed in Our White House. The hatred used to crush opponents was unnecessary and undemocratic, as well as unconstitutional and yet no elected leader dared to speak out against it. I just hope we never descend to the level of depravity that would make the Pumas, and others who choose to point out that this new emperor of our old democracy has no clothes, “the new Jews”.
Some may think it is a “persecution complex” to even speculate, but the one lesson I though we had all learned from World War II, is that the German Jews were emphatic: Nothing really bad would happen to them because they were Germans, too. But it did.
Israelis don’t have to become suicide bombers. They have all the latest technology in weapons from the United States.
To be fair. That is how Israel began…with terrorist/freedom fighter actions against Britain.
Research the Stern Gang and Irgun. There are a couple of Israel’s Prime Ministers within their fighting ranks.
When those were there only options against the large British military. The Jewish people did resort to the terror of blowing up buildings and political assassinations, such as Swedish U.N. mediator Count Folke Bernadotte and British diplomat Lord Moyne.
With this in mind. It is understandable for some Muslims to believe through terrorism they can succeed in their goals since they watched Israel do the same.
Though, I agree that mainstream Muslims need to speak out more. It might be they are suffering the same fate centrists, moderates, and the sane are suffering here in the US under our left and right wing fantics. They might be without a proper venue to speak out and be heard, because it serves a different purpose to make all Muslims the boogeyman.
Us vs Them…worked well for Bush and Obama…and countries throughout the ages.
C.S. Lots of great points though.
Excellent article, American Girl. And very informative too. Thank you.
thank you benny. i was about ready to run and hide.
well, i can see this is going over well. too bad no one yet seems to get passed the first sentence, to the second one where I say: “Now, I am not saying that PUMAS have been subjected to the horrors of the holocaust, or the years and years of persecution, but I thought it was a snappy intro that might grab your attention.”
well, except for concerned citizen, who just wants to insult. spread the hate, buddy. thanks for stopping by, just to be an ass.
trolls are juveniles who get their kicks from spreading insults and hate. They’re Intelligence-impaired. Just ignore them, American Girl.
I think people ARE reading your disclaimer: “Now, I am not saying that PUMAS have been subjected to the horrors of the holocaust, or the years and years of persecution, but I thought it was a snappy intro that might grab your attention”
The problem is that you are using something that is VERY personal and disturbing to a lot of people to get attention. Would you tell a Jew who’s family was burned to death “I can empathize with you because people I don’t know call me names on the internet.”
obviously those are two different circumstances, and jewish people have been terrorized.
that said, the hate I am talking about is not just calling people names on the internet. people have had their careers threatened, their social security and disability threatened, their families harassed, death threats and threats of violence, their web sites hacked and shut down, there homes and cars vandalized, they have been attacked in public, harrassed sitting in cafes and restaurants, screamed at and insulted in person, and on and on. it isn’t JUST anonymous internet name calling.
i have not had my house burned down, but i have been attacked, threatened and harrassed and it is personal, to me. maybe my skin is too thin, but it feels very personal.
American Girl In Italy…
You are SO right. There is so much hate in the air of America because of Fraudbama and this “selection.” I have NEVER seen more vicious acts against people…Palin is a C**t t-shirts, the Black Panther nonsense at the polls, etc. You NAME it – we could all go on for days about the hate over the past two years. The violence towards people who don’t line up and support the Fraud is STILL out there. I haven’t had anything horrible happen, but I can say that I have lost friends who I tried to edumacate about the Fraud and they weren’t particularly nice about it. I don’t remember America ever being this nasty, nor do I remember Americans treating each OTHER this badly just because some people didn’t vote for Jesus H. Hussein Christ Our Savior the FRAUD.
Wow if THIS ain’t the truth! I have family members who are STILL ticked off because I won’t be supporting & cheering on that damned cheater and liar on January 20! Still ticked because I will continue to call out Obama in his rot in the coming years.
But I don’t give a damn anymore.
If my family members want to divorce wisdom & common sense in backing everything wrong that Democrat fraud does in the White House, that’s their business. But I won’t be along for the ride.
Seems to me that the
moronstrolls who have come out to try to pollute this thread are the best testimony to the accuracy of AGiI’s point.Thank you. and like i said, i don’t seriously think that pumas are the new jew, but man, after reading SO MUCH HATE yesterday, and in past weeks, it just really got to me. dems and repubs always fought, but pumas are flat out HATED by dems. that rumproast site was awful, and wonkette, good lord. it just freaked me out, I guess, that someone who stands by their political beliefs is so hated.
Exactly. And anyone who thinks that PUMA hatred is limited only to the internet is just plain crazy.
The current war between Hamas and Israel is not war. This is the equivalent of The Germans clearing out the Warsaw Ghetto. Gaza has been a ghetto. Israel has treated the people of gaza as less than human. They have tried to control every aspect of life in Gaza. Just as the Nazis tried to control the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto, the Israelis have morphed into the Nazis and now use the same thinking the Nazis did. It is so ironic. To become what you have hated the most…but not that unusual. (The Democrats have morphed into the Repubicans) We have a corrupt facist President elect who is like the reincarnation of Bush/Cheney. He has taken over the Democratic Party and destroyed its principles and will do the same with the country. BHO…scary stuff!
PUMAS are dangerous to the new power center. Don’t for a minute underestimate what this new regime is capable of. (Did anyone expect Bush to be as bad as he was? Even I, who detested Bush and knew he would be a disaster, was unable to accurately predict the depth of the disaster. You all laugh at the comparison between how PUMAS are treated like the Jews during the Holocaust. And that is appropriate, but this is like 1934, pre holocaust, and Hitler was just made chancelor. Who knew? Well PUMAS know and BHO et al don’t want us to voice the truth. And they want to shut us up.. anyway they can.
Sara’s commentary does not claim a direct analogy between Pumas and Jews, but rather draws attention to what happens when a SCHISM ocurrs within a community and how those holding the dissenting view are intimidated and harassed by those holding the sanctioned view. But to a great extent, part of what she is describing (unwittingly or not) is FASCISM, i.e. a dangerous ideology of authoritarianism. TO WIT, and in agreement with Alibe’s post above:
“You all laugh at the comparison between how PUMAS are treated like the Jews during the Holocaust. And that is appropriate, but this is like 1934, pre holocaust, and Hitler was just made chancelor. Who knew?”
and
“To become what you have hated the most […]. (The Democrats have morphed into the Republicans) We have a corrupt fascist President elect who is like the reincarnation of Bush/Cheney. He has taken over the Democratic Party and destroyed its principles and will do the same with the country. BHO…scary stuff!”
Dawnelle and C.S. have it exactly right. We live in a dangerous time, much like 1930, when dissention is not tolerated. We have a duty to speak our minds, whatever the criticism we incur. At this point, we still live in a free country, but our voicmay be the only thing keeping us free
The only political “beliefs” the pumakitties believe in is “vote vagina.” They’re willing to throw away any progressive belief for that cause, hence their support for Caribou Barbie.
Hey Larry!
What? No cabinet appointment for you? Maybe Hillary can get you a spot in the State Department mail-room?
BTW, where’s that awesome yawning-Puma pic that used to grace your awesomness website? It helps me nap…
You’re not bright…
One just needs to examine the complexity of your thought pattern.
It does’t extemd much beyond “DUH,” now does it?
You know, for any number od reasons I dont agree with the whole PUMA thing, but you seem a little bent out of shape, here, kook, overreacting and untalented.
Not to mention stupid.
Geesh–I think American Girl can rest her case! It’s playing out right here!
Your use of the term progressive is really a code word for regressive, asshat. Take your brainwashed opinions to HuffPo,, which is down the hall behind a dumpster, under a large rock.
Complete sexist garbage spewing from your keyboard.
Why don’t you get over your deep hatred and resentment for women? Then maybe you’ll finally overcome your insanity & turn into a productive citizen.
Your messages are lost in the messengers.
This I can relate to because I’ve seen this on many blogs the continued attack on PUMAS a/k/a Hillary supporters. Since Obama in now becoming President, all this hate should have calmed down right after the elections. His obots should have been dancing in the street (or their basements), happy and gotten on with their lives and moved towards helping their chosen one change the country towards the improving the country as they envision it. There should have been a more positive frame of mind than what is still out there. I really haven’t seen any of them busting the butts to work towards this change they want so badly.
Let’s face it, the problem with the obots may not be so much as that they hate PUMAs. They hate, I’m really starting to believe, is themselves and need someone to turn that hate onto. It’s called transference and they need a target. Otherwise, we’d be seeing a more optimistic crowd of Obama supporters. We’re not. The hate attacks that continue, the trying to affect the outcome of the weblog awards, goes beyond normal hate. These kids are angry and they need someone – anyone – to blame and since PUMAs wouldn’t back their chosen one, they’ve latched onto them as their targets.
Hate is a terrible thing. We see that in the Middle East and African conflicts. We’ve seen it in history and current conflicts with genocide.
The 60s are long gone. There were problems then, but I remember there was more optimism, too. With the Obama supporters, even though their man will be in the White House, there is no optimism coming from them. Just a lot of anger, hate, fear, and confusion. IMO, they hunt PUMAs trying to make themselves feel better, unfortunately, it won’t work.
I’m not happy Obama is soon to be President, but I’ve survived eight years of GWB. Hopefully, I’ll survive 4 years of Obama. And personally, I don’t hate the obots, I don’t agree with them the nicest of them and I think the meaner of them are stupid and petty and are in need of a good shrink to wean them off the kool-aid, but I don’t hate them. Sometimes I even feel sorry for them because of the blind loyalty. Some of them even scare me because they remind of Hitler’s youth movement. What is to become of our country, worries me as much as the hate coming from the obots, because that hate isn’t healthy.
Hey, I’m Republican, I’m accustomed to hatred from the left. My Republican friends and I used to puzzle over the intensity of the hostility coming from a group who portrays themselves as tolerant and progressive. Whatever happened to diversity?
Now PUMAs feel the “love” from the kumbaya crowd. Welcome to the party, guys.
Oh, believe me, I cannot believe how it has been for Republicans over the years! I now moved over to the “right” side. Most things liberal now make me want to vomit! I am no a longer a democrat (the “wrong” side).
As a former democrat, I apologize for the liberal media bias you suffered and still suffer!
our comments are almost identical! hehe
No need for apologies from either of you, you’re not the MSM!
I have friends of all political persuasions, it’s never been an issue until the 2008 election. Most of us were able to continue our friendships uninterrupted, but naturally one serious 0b0t popped up in the bunch, and well, it didn’t end well.
Csuzeq – I empathized with many of your posts re: former BF because I had one at home, who even tho he didn’t even vote, well he likes the 0-man a lot.
What was stunning to a lot of Republicans was the way the MSM and Dem leadership turned on HRC – with a vengeance. So the enemy is any media outlet with an agenda, who PRETENDS they are unbiased and objective.
And while we’re on the subject of the Hate-0-Meter, I used to think it was off the charts for the Black Republicans, but the 2008 GE taught me the only one more hated that an AA Republican was an AA Hillary voter.
P- red, you are so right. As an AA Hillary supporter then and now my family and friends (of 9 brothers and sisters only 2 voted for Hillary) were awful. Things got so bad we are still unable to discuss the election. They knew nothing about the tactics of Obama and accused my sister and me of lying about Obama when we attempted to point out facts to them. I despise Obama (voted for McCain/Palin) for the way he used race to divide families and the country both in the primaries and in the GE. Now they are quiet as they see him using his influence to deny a “real AA” a seat in the senate. We were always a large boisterious family able to discuss , sometimes loudly any issue, especially at family reunions where hundreds attend. At the last one in July 08 we kept our thoughts to ourselves. What a shame. Our mother was active in democratic politics and taught us, at an early age to care about the issues.
Okay, but the hate from the Right has been pretty vicious too over the years. Example: Hatred for all things Clinton. Didn’t the Right invent CDS, after all?
I believe the Right cried wolf for so long — about the Clintons and others on the Left — that any valid point or criticism they might have had got lost in their hatred and animosity.
Another thing: If the conservatives had had their own PUMA-like movement to protest the likes of GWB, we might not be repeating history today with the likes of Ofraud. Once a precedent is set — i.e. the subversion of democracy — it is hard to stop it from occurring again.
trust me, i have apologized to my friends on the right. i never considered myself a lefty, but i usually voted dem. but, stepping from the liberal media bubble i lived in, i see what the left has done to the right, and understand what they have been saying for years. you are right.
Hi, Red,
As a former Democrat, now Independent, I’d been to Republican sites and the feelings went both ways, but not to the extreme out there right now between Obama supporters have been doing to the Hillary supporters.
And I’ve been on Team Sarah, I’m not happy about the “demRat” name calling posts, but it’s not anything unusual and I can fluff it off. I have yet to see it reach the level – and that’s including Rush Limbaugh – that is happening between the obot kids and their PUMA targets. It’s gotten way over the top. Look at the trolls out today! It’s been my experience, Democrats, Republicans and Independents, etc. can have actual conversations even when they don’t agree. My family is not all one party and we haven’t disowned each other over politican differences. Heated arguments, yes, but no one has disowned anyone. Unlike what happened this election season when the obots disowned family and friends for not supporting Obama.
Not seeing that much actual conversation on this thread with the trolls.
I’ve never been comfortable with the pejorative epithets contrived by the right against Democrats. My feelings echo those of AAGiI, when she says she doesn’t know where she belongs when she visits different blogs.
I had considered going Indie, but my state has closed primaries and I want to have a voice in who the Republicans choose. Plus, my being a Republican pisses off the few 0b0t friends I have left!
It’s hard to be “homeless”, so I very much understand how AAGiL and you feel. That’s why I like No Quarter. I’ve been toying with registering Democrat again, but watching Harry Reid and company in action lately, I think the party is too full of corruption right now. Too much water under the bridge for me to jump back into my old party because it looks too insurmountable from where I’m sitting.
there is no reason or logic in hate, it’s all emotion. That’s why you see it on both sides of the aisle and don’t see it on both sides of the aisle. A logical person who can reason things will agree to disagree. My mom came unglued and called me some nasty names when I didn’t vote for George Bush. But I had a couple acquaintances vote for Obama. One who told me when seeing my Hillary sign in my yard that she would forgive me! But there was no hate or arguing. We just don’t talk about it. I can accept their choice however, I can’t spend alot of time with people who dont’ share my values and beliefs. The one guy told me it had nothing to do with what he stood for, he just thought he was charming!
this will not go away till Mr. O comes out and does something about it. He gave his supporters the right to go out and do whatever it took to get voted in….the way he spoke did not sit well with many… get in their face was one simple phrase that stood out… he gave his bots the go ahead and they have hidden hate and anger for anyone who do not see things their way!
Heool whatever happened to aggree to disagree and move on?
O actually laughed at issues and instigated hate throughout the primaries and then he wants everyone to roll over like good kitties and stroke us back to understanding him?
He has not got any depth of compassion to bring this country together he stoked the fire and it’s burning which will not be extinguished for years….. a very very sad time in the USA
” Hello ” even
I think the impeachment of Pres Clinton was outrageous and about as bad as it got from the Right.
I haven’t forgotten the 1990s, my friends.
I haven’t either.
As it is now, new Democrats are the old Republicans and old Democrats are the new Republicans. Go figure.
Your post is right on point.
I’ve never seen such a bitter, poor and hateful group of “winners” in my life.
Obamabrats got that clown into the White House and they’re still griping about PUMAs.
For what?
And when you ask these dumbasses why they’re still in an uproar on our blogs and forums about voters who don’t support that crook, they can never give you an answer that makes sense. We can give PLENTY of logical reasons for not supporting Obama. Yet most Obamabrats can’t give us logical reasons for supporting him.
I suspect that these nutjobs are finally beginning to realize that they were tricked by Obama. Bamboozled. And they want to take their disappointment out on us.
Great post American Girl and the trolls have proven your point. Case closed.
:O) Thanks woodiej!
The reason the Arabs hate the jews has nothing to do with religion. Land was taken away from the Palestinians and given to the Jewish people after WW II for the stated reason of giving them their own country. What do you think that would feel like? Having Iowa taken away from the people of Iowa and given to, I don’t know, the Hindus because they need their own country. That is what started it. I have no opinion on the right or wrong of it, but that is how it started.
I’m a Puma and will always be one. Puma are warriors. I don’t belong to any faction.
Land was not “taken away” from Palestinians. Jewish holocaust survivors fought the British who controlled a colony the British called Palestine, which was never a Palestinian state. In fact, there has never been a country called Palestine. There’s a democracy in that region, called Israel, which continues to be attacked by a terrorist government, called Hamas. Israel is now dismantling this terrorist organization, an organization — by the way — whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel and who has killed thousands of Israelis.
“whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel and who has killed thousands of Israelis.”
why?
The point is that the people who lived in that land and I will call them Palestinians had to move somewhere and there was nowhere for them to move to so they ended up in these refugee camps without a home. Like I said, I’m not taking sides here, but some people were displaced. Russell Means at the Lakotah Nation says that the Palestinians are like the Native Americans…they were displaced from their homes and put in camps. I do not necessarily agree with his fairly radical take on it, but that is how some people see it.
“The reason the Arabs hate the jews has nothing to do with religion.”
Sure. Religion has nothing to do with it.
This is an interesting statement, Mountain Girl, because it implies that PUMAs are not a “faction.” I happen to agree with that. I think that at this point PUMAs are true Independents who are apt to vote for any candidate regardless of party affiliation, depending upon an evaluation of their total character.
“We don’t got to show you no stinking badges.”
PUMA is more of an attitude than anything else: definitely not a party, and not a faction.
I agree with all of the above!
Independent Warrior (sometimes) and not for sale politically for a parties sake.
We vary with our policy beliefs though. (and I’ve never been to a formal meeting) I do listen to blog talk radio if that’s a qualification (probably not). We’re mui Independent but loyal to the truth. (my words)
I think we just all decided after the primary was stolen that NO MORE BS & LIES then we met Sarah – honest fresh face! She could have been a HE with the same character and attributes and I still would have liked them.
OUTside the bubble and beltway with a sterling GOV’s record!
NOTHING to do with her privates. Disgusting nasty misogynist trolls think otherwise of course because that’s ALL they can think about!
BTW, I’m glad Sarah is “watching closely” the NY Senate seat appointment. She is right is seeing a whopping class issue with regard to her own treatment by the media and that of CK.
Caroline, you know uh, you know, is a brilliant choice. Sarah, you betcha, is a dolt. Class? Come now..not in America.
i agree with that. i think that was why PUMA never really had major success. we were all too independent in what we would do with out vote. Write in, vote MCcain, vote McKinney, stay home… I wouldn’t doubt some ended up voting Obama. And we still do not stand as one. Some left the dems, some went repub, some indy. but those who left the party, still have some liberal views, so it is hard to fit in anywhere. :OS
Some have even now accepted him, and some NEVER will. what to do, what to do…. ;O)
i heart pumas here and appreciate most writing on it. i’d just add that maybe there are other comparisons to consider is all. i support the pumas and their fight.
sure, there are. but, with the current conflict in the news, and why i started writing my post, it is where i ended up.
As far as comparisons go, consider the schism within the Roman Catholic Church which resulted in the Protestant movement and Church. (Someone elsewhere, whose name escapes me, wrote a great article comparing the two.)
About making comparisons — the point is not to say that X and Y are exactly equal, but to point out where the two intersect and differ. I believe Sarah has done so in her piece.
it’s still HATE no matter what it is compared to.
i would add american girl in italy that you do have a good point about the hate. for sure irrational hatred is abounding in the world today. americans are not rising above it but are becoming part of it. and that translates to gender hate as well. those who don’t like themselves have to have something to hate so they don’t think about themselves.
I quite frankly really don’t care if the Obamaphiles hate Pumas. What it really means to me is that they fear us and what our defection might end up costing the Obama administration and the Obama nation. Don’t you just hate independent thinking people?
I’m not a PUMA, but I thank GOD for what they did. Next time people go to vote…Party Unity My Ass will be on their minds. By the time Dems get done with what Pelosi, Reid and Fraudbama do to this country, and remember what was done to their vote THIS time…I pray that people will get some brains and balls and EXAMINE their candidate and FORGET this RIDICULOUS “Party First” thing that cost this country the election of a REAL President.
Yes, I know the GOP didn’t come out in droves. And that’s WHY it was critical that PUMAs made it loud and clear that COUNTRY IS FIRST. For me, what they did, will never be unforgotten and I salute them. The people that piss and shit on them are losers. Since when in this country did people lose their right to assemble any way they want?
I am Pro-Israel and often have to get off this site because of all the antisemitism and hate for Israel. I think it’s really great for people to sit in their cushy little homes, blogging away, crapping on people who get rockets launched at them all day, and then get railed on for retaliating. Like some of us have said…when you start building bomb shelters in your own home and have to live with CONSTANT violence and terror, let us know.
Yeah, yeah, some wing nuts will attack me for that. YAWN. The people I know, trust and respect also support Israel. Period. I’m not changing because of propaganda and lies. Hamas can bite me. Talk about HATE.
I really don’t get why Obots would care about PUMAs at this point, considering Obama “won.” It truly makes no sense to me.
However, this is the first time I believe I’ve seen a group of voters get so psyched up about their president-elect, he’s like a singer in a rock band to them.
Not liking Obama is like choosing a BlackBerry over an iPhone to these kiddos.
I guess these kids haven’t figured out that politicians are ultimately politicians and not some cool hip band that you can be an undying fan of.
The trolls are out here early in the morning. Usually they seem to swarm more at night.
American Girl dares to write about her own personal thoughts and experience. She is not trying to force her ideas on us. She immediately is subjected to scornful attacks.
American Girl, I do see your point. When I sometimes wander away from NQ to “liberal” blogs, the continuing hatred toward Hillary Clinton is just amazing.
Obots, the election is over. Your Messiah will soon be president. Why do you hate Hillary so much? Is a strong, intelligent woman that threatening to you? Your master says it is ok to like her now, and says he never really disliked her. It was just campaign talk. (Much of what he said apparently was just campaign talk. As Reverend Wright told Bill Moyers, Barack is a politician and he will say whatever he has to say. But Obama opened a whole, ugly can of worms with his “campaign talk.”)
Thank you ritamary! you just made me cry (in a good way) :O)
I always thought the Left embraced dissent. Of course, what I found out after this election cycle is what they [the Left, the Progressive/Regressives and Obamatrons] truly love is the sound of their own voice, in unison with nary a slip in note or tone.
I think the PUMAs took a beating because they had the audacity to say, “No.” It’s a small word but it gets the job done. What has surprised me is the level of the O-gang’s vitriol against anyone who has a different point of view. They won already. Why are they still beating the bushes?
If you’ve ever visited some of these so-called “liberal” blogs, they do nothing but whine and nit-pick every single decision the “O” has made in terms of personnel. Where did they think Obama was going to get people from.
Taco Bell??
PUMA did what it could to raise the electorates’ consciousness to what went on during the nomination process. They did a good thing in my mind. They failed to stop the Obamatrain. But they’ve warned all of us: Keep your eyes wide open. And don’t get suckered into group-think, regardless of what direction it comes from.
Not bad for a movement created on the fly. I suspect they’ll be around for a while, too.
i have been thinking about this. the “left” as we knew it no longer exists. just take a look at the pathetic excuses we have representing our interests(joke) in dc. pelosi? she represents corporations and her ego. that’s about it. obama? he wants to cash in. reid? he is just a fool!
I’ve come to the same conclusion, Stodgie. As for Pelosi? What a bitter disappointment she’s turned out to be. And Reid’s recent performance with this Burris debacle is downright embarrassing.
As for Obama? I hope and pray he turns out better than I think. He’s put some good people around him. We can only hope it doesn’t all fall apart and Chicago politics ends up ruling the day.
Not a good place to be.
I think most rational people have moved on since the election and don’t give two $h1ts about the few dead-ender PUMAs who just can’t let go. And despite your “disclaimer” explaining how you know there’s a difference between your “persecution” and that of the Jews, some metaphors are better left untouched – like that one!
Anytime you cite the Holocaust, no matter how vehemently you “explain” how you know the difference between your “plight” and that of 6 million-plus Jews who were brutally murdered, you wind up looking like a 12-year-old forensics student. Isn’t there a better way to make your point without bringing the Holocaust into it? I mean, seriously.
You people are silly and ridiculous and have long since erased any legitimacy you had, assuming you ever had any. Personally, I don’t think you did.
spacecat, you are beyond silly and ridiculous. so don’t think you are above all that. you voted for obama i gather so you have no ground to judge anyone. got that!
“I think most rational people have moved on since the election and don’t give two $h1ts about the few dead-ender PUMAs who just can’t let go.”
The irony is that, if this is true, you are not one of those people, due to the fact that you are here posting this snarky comment.
The sweet irony escapes you, Odiot! The fact that you’re here shows that YOU can’t let go. LOL!
Ha ha ha. Yes, you PUMAs are such a formidable group, all 500 hundred of you! I mean, Obama’s approval has really hit the bottom thanks to your angry blogging. What’s he at, 60%? 70%? LOL
space cat, your space under the bus has been reserved for others more worthy. i guess you get to beg on the street and hang around garbage cans. blogging on here for a few bucks is no way to advancement. you get an f in trolling by the way.
SpaceCat…
What an genius, talking about Fraudbama’s “approval rating” before he usurps the White House. But how about all those FINE people he has associated himself with? ROFLMAO. The Chicago Toilet.
As Hillary or Bust says…if “rational” people have moved on…WTF does that say about YOU?
Come back in six months and let’s talk about the Fraud’s “approval rating.” Maybe it will be as high as that fabulous 11% approval rating your frigging Queen Nancy has gotten us for Congress.
yeah! Let’s hope Obama’s as bad a president as Bush. Then you guys will have an EPIC I TOLD YOU SO WIN. It would be so worth it to have Obama fall on his face. Then people would see how right you were all along. The country would be screwed, but you would finally get the respect you “deserve.”
SpaceCat…
Fraudbama’s going to make Bush look like a genius. No one HOPES for that. That’s WHY we didn’t vote for him. Fraudbama ALREADY has more scandal and ugliness attached to his so-called “Presidency” before he usurps office than any other politician in history. Can we just imagine what it will be like in, say, a year? It’s a joke. He’s a joke. America’s a joke for letting it happen. No one, other than Nancy, Harry and Fraudbama, wants to see this country implode. But 57 Million of us knew better when we exercised our right to vote.
You guys and your “Obama hates America” tirades make Sarah Palin look positively self-aware.
Oh noes! Here comes Rev. WRight to enslave “whitey”! And Bill Ayers to run the Dept. of Defense! Look out, Obama’s putting Rezko in charge of the Justice Dept! And he’s making us all swear allegiance to the Koran! Just like you predicted!
The only America hating “tirades” came from that
James Brown in a Dressfreak MeChelle and her Fraud of a husband. Someone calling the “Constitution a flawed document,” etc. is really not the guy I want “upholding the Constitution,” which is what the asshole is paid to do. You need to get a grip. He’s a FRAUD and so are you trolls that Camp Cockroach sends here to spew your inane blathering vomit.Such phrases may not be used here — stick to the facts when criticizing Michelle. There are plenty of facts that are far more persuasive than name-calling. – ADMINISTRATOR
My take on the Porcine Ms M is more Flip Wilson as Geraldine—she’s got too much junk in the trunk to EVER dance like James Brown.
Space cat ? That’s right just zoom ON out !!
It’s people like u that will never allow this country to heal…. YOU stir the pot instead of keeping your mouth shut you come here to add your 5 cheap empty cents!
Bet you feel real good?
Your name says it all YOUR A WASTE OF SPACE
SpaceJunk: That One doesn’t need our help to fall flat on his face–he has minions like you to help him every day. With low-brow Obamabots like you on the loose, who needs a loyal opposition to point out his obvious and numerous flaws? You serve quite nicely as an example of the sort of empty skull who willfully suspends disbelief while singing the praises of a man who has taken on a job that consists of duties that are, by his own admission, above his pay grade. Keep up the good work, troll, as it only makes our job that much easier.
Yeah, remember when your polling showed that BO would win MA, PA, CA, etc?
Ritamary peggysue I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. Even during the primary election I tried to advise my AA sister who is an Obot to the nth power that she should advocate FOR her candidate not DEMEAN Bill & Hillary. She would become incensed like a rabid animal. You see they had to convence themselves that he was just as qualified as Hillary. Being AA and more than likely looked over for jobs or promotions at least once due to being AA and more qualified was problematic. So they made up shit and did not check out any statements Obama put out. When it became known that he had lied, they excused it. One of my brothers was the same way. When I tried to tell him the facts surrounding the “racial” accusations during the SC primary, he said it had to be true otherwise Clyburn would not have said it. For an educated man to say such a thing I was speechless and hung up on him. THEY ARE STILL OBOTS TO THE NTH POWER. We no longer talk on the phone about anything. If we call to say Merry Xmas or something the conversation is stilted and awkard. YES I TRULY DETEST OBAMA!!
American Girl in Italy,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I understand the message and agree.
American Girl…
Brave article and wonderful attempt to open a respectful debate on these subjects.
Trying to bridge understanding isn’t supporting the chaos. Or is it an attempt to lessen the impact of that chaos. Many people seem to miss those obvious facts while ignoring the original intentions of the author.
Thank you, American Girl, for your brave article. As a Jew whose maternal Grandma lost her entire family in the Holocaust, I am not offended at the comparison to PUMA. The point of “never again” is that it All begins with scapegoating and the irrational propagation of Hatred, which is the analogy you’re making.
Worldwide, it only will stop through resolve to rise above violence and retaliation. Sigh. Who knows how many generations more that will take, but we must all commit to do our part in whatever we can. Of course, people must self-defend against those who would annihilate them, but he did/she did will never end it. We must agree to something different.
As PUMAs, there’s a fine line of learning to balance between standing up for ourselves, against false, inflammatory, slanderous accusations, and ignoring them in order to not be distracted from the larger issues at hand. Just as the world ignored fascist leaders in Europe, and Ahmadenijad now, PUMAs cannot let themselves be attacked by unconscious factions of prejudiced morons. At the same time, the Obies (right, they should be in happy not nasty mode) waste our time that could be going to solving the real problems in the world, and are therefore, often better ignored. Well, I guess “those people” not the bleeding heart wing of liberal goodiness.
AGII, thanks again.
Thank you. Your comment means the world to me.
Boomer, well said. We must constantly remind ourselves that it begins with us. While it continues to evolve over generations, the resolve to rise above those lower vibrations of hate and blame will eventually triumph, as we stand proud to prevent the victimization of all peoples.
The honor lies in the intention and the meeting of like minds. Proud to know you, AGII and all of those at NQ and the Movement! Together we will prevail.
Thought exercise:
If HRC had gotten the nomination and became the candidate after the DNC convention, and a disaffected faction of BHO supporters declared ‘PUMA!’ and publicly, loudly and emphatically announced that they would NOT vote for HRC under any circumstances – how would they have been treated by HRC’s supporters?
Thought exercise:
Fraudbama didn’t legally or ethically “become the candidate” and everyone knows it. Why don’t you chew on that and get back to us. Uhhh…that’s WHY PUMA exists.
Ha ha ha. You people are still arguing that Obama “stole” the nomination. LOL to the infinite power. Pitiful PUMAs. Where’s the whitey tape? Oh noes! Here comes Rev. Wright! And Bill Ayers too! Aaaaahhhhhhh! HALP!! Manchurian Muslim Black Panther Marxist druggie candidate! How come the rest of the country is too stupid to see all this???
Am I THINKING Fraudbama stole the nomination? No, not “thinking.” I know it for a fact. So does anyone with a brain idiot. As for Wright and Ayers? No decent person would associate with those two. What’s your point? Fraudbama has some filthy, scary, inappropriate friends and that will bite him in the ass too. Drugs? He admitted that one you buffoon. What part of the Fraudbama story isn’t TRUE? Point out ONE thing.
Ignored.
People who hate Jews are called anti-semites. What are people who hate Arabs or Muslims called?
Oooo…what an interesting question on a lot of levels.
Racists?
hamas?
Regarding Obama is a Fraud’s response to my comment,
I believe the difference between this and “ZOMG! He was born in Kenya and is the illegitimate son of Malcolm X!” is a matter of degree, not kind.
That said, I do not believe BHO is the second coming of Lincoln, nor do I believe HRC is an avatar of Nyarlotothep. I _did_ think that BHO was more electable, which is why I supported him in the primary and the general. I firmly believe, also, that HRC will make a great Secretary of State, and that all the people who care passionately about this issue could fit into a regulation NFL football stadium.
RobertO, the fact that you’re here in the “stadium” with us means that you’re running scared and are drawn to our cause. Just admit it, you and you fellow Obots were wrong about your Precious.
Running scared? Not running at all, in fact. I’m not ‘drawn to your cause’; I came across a reference to this mishegass on another blog, and had to come and see the phenomenon for myself.
FWIW, this is the first blog I’ve posted comments to in quite a while where reasonable, non-profane comments I’ve made have been deleted without warning or explanation.
However, seeing someone who uses the handle ‘Ferd Berfle’ mock someone else for having a ‘childish’ screen name actually made it worth it.
Pssst. My friend has seen a copy of the whitey tape but the MSM – from MSNBC to FoxNews to the WSJ – is sitting on it and not letting it out. But trust me, it’s real.
You can always tell a loser troll when they rant about the whitey tape. I really feel sorry for you sickos. How much do you make again for the selling out of your country?
Well that didn’t take long. Don’t like someone’s opinion, accuse them of being a traitor. Priceless.
Yup…traitor. The people who love this country didn’t vote for the Fraud. Nor do they get paid to come here and troll. Pretty cut and dried IMO.
So the majority of America hates America? Makes sense to me! The “Real America” just keeps getting smaller and smaller, doesn’t it.
Well SpaceCat…most of the people who voted for the Fraud don’t know who he really is. More people “get it” daily and before the Fraud even steals the White House people are getting disgruntled. If people had known WHO Fraudbama is…nothing but a manufactured mess…then they wouldn’t have committed the ultimate act of America hate and voted for him. No worries there though. Every day more people wise up and by next year it’s over for the Fraud. If you wanna make a bet about that, let’s do it.
Impeached by next year? SRSLY? I will take that bet.
Man, you people are living in bizarro world.
Well I think a year is conservative, but WTH. A year it is and how much? You are the one living in a pathetic bubble.
I’ll bet you A MILLION DOLLARS!
Your
highmiddleelementary schoolchildish bloviating indicates that you are about 11 and on your Mother’s computer, eating cheetos and getting crumbs on the keyboard. I’m glad I’m not you, little snip.You Kool-Aide sipping, mouth-breathing, anal-retentive, microcephallic morons who foisted That One on the rest of the country are no better than the bushbots who came before you. OBIAF is correct, you duds don’t care about anything but yourselves. The greater good for crap artists like you consists of finding new ways to flim-flam others.
Ooooh, burn.
OMFG…
“Oooohhh, burn?”
How OLD are you? Seriously, are you even old enough to VOTE? Well, apparently that didn’t matter this “selection” anyway. ROFLMAO.
SpaceCat needs to go back to MyDD where his/her junior high buddies are.
Were you one the bots that got left behind or are you just a straggler waiting for the mother ship to signal you?
Your opinion, like your moniker, is childish.
You mean the whitey tape I have here of you landing on planet earth covered in space ash……?
SPACE CAT HAS ARRIVED..
Go take a wash and leave your clutter elsewhere DailyKos just sent out a memo to call the haters home….. did u get it??
There’s lots of space there to post your trash….
You mean the whitey tape I have here of you landing on planet earth covered in space ash……?
LMAO
“Democrats who support Barack Obama are much more angry at PUMAs as former Democrat non-believers in O’s psuedo-divinity than they are at Republicans …”
For me the reverse is true too. I’m contemptuous of Daily Kos in a way I’m not of Free Republic because they betrayed the basic progressive principle of free thought.
As for the puma-jew metaphor, one of the ideas of American democracy is we snuff out the seeds of tyranny before they they can take root. ‘First the Jew, then you!’ We protect due process rights of flagburners, not because we love flagburners, but as a DEW line (distant early warning) against tyranny. We don’t wait until we’re in line for the gas oven to protest.
I’m not so worried about Daily Groupthink. Historically, the Far Left is exposed and rejected by its own members (George Orwell, Whittaker Chambers, Richard Wright, PUMA) when its leaders go mad with power.
I’m curious, can anyone think of a right wing version of Whittaker Chambers–I mean, a far right zealot who turned against the right? The closest I can think of is Pat Buchanan, who slams the Neocons as hard as Michael Moore but still holds to conservativism.
I think the lefties will come around only because being an asswipe for the government is boring. But the MSM as official Presidential asswipe is a danger. Market forces have turned our news media into Pravda. The biggest danger from the Obots is the market demand for Obama-asswipe media.
IMO, your whole comment is full of good insights. The mutual animosity in the Democratic Party breakup is similar to the deep wounds in a family feud. And often, these family feuds are never resolved, and different family factions go their separate ways permanently.
The former Democratic Party can go collectively hang themselves. There won’t be a tear shed here.
Yes. I, for one, can’t imagine ever going back.
F— those Obamacrats. Who the hell cares what those losers think about PUMAs? They’ll “get over it.”
Who gives a crap about the idiots that supported the Fraud? I think PUMAs should hold their heads high and realize that maybe, just maybe, in 2012 they will make the difference no one could make in 2008. Hang in there PUMAs. I wish I could be one of you, but I am officially GOP for life after the Dem crap this year. Never again.
American girl in italy
Good post and thse who do not understand from the O world will never understand….
I never called myself a Puma just one person in Hillary’s cog working to bring the best to the USA~~
American Girl,
Many of us understand your post. The test for Obama lies within the next 4 years, maybe 2. He, and his supporters, may need to be reminded that a 2nd term is not assured. By then the PUMAs may have a lot of company.
Keep up the hatred vile blogs and what goes around, comes around.
And keep the faith, AG, for many of us have noted the misogyny and PUMA blog attacks.
Let’s try this again:
can you imagine someone who, having read and studied the respective positions and statements of HRC and BHO, thoughtfully and rationally picked the latter as the best choice for party, office and country?
I can imagine the reverse; that is, someone who had gone through all the above and thoughtfully and rationally picked HRC for those reasons. I ask, in all seriousness, can you imagine the above?
Because I fit that description, and I am not the only one.
Robert, you are obviously a misogynistic cheater, like the rest of the people who supported Barack HUSSEIN(ZOMG!) Obama.
Absolutely not, unless you meant to say “rationalize”, in which case I agree as anyone who voted for That One would have to do an awful lot of rationalizations to decide HE was the best choice. Sorry, but the terms thoughful and rational do not beling in the same paragraph containing the word Oblahblah.
This coming from the guy who calls him “Oblahblah.” YOu guys need to take a good long look in the mirror.
SpaceCrud: That One is all talk and no do. Oblahblah is an apt name for a useless bit of genetic information as him.
And you are an idiot of the first order.
You have a do-nothing for an Idol. All talk.
I don’t call him Oblahblah…I call him FRAUDBAMA, which is perfect IMO. He’s a FRAUD and so is your troll azz.
He’s a lot of things except qualified and fit.
SpaceCat, you and your fellow ‘Bots suffer from a new disease called Obamautism — i.e. the condition whereby a person’s head is so far up her/his ass s/he suffers from a perpetual Ogasm.
ha ha ha. Gold!
Beautiful.
Thank you.
Thank you Will, and for your email. They mean a lot.
I think there is a vast, vast difference between someone who is a Clinton supporter and one who is a PUMA.
Enlighten us, then.
I am a staunch supporter of HRC, a PUMA, and a former Democrat who left the party after 32 years as a member because of the anointing of the polyethylene prevaricator and provocateur named That One. Perhaps you were exposed unawares to the Obamination Kool-Aide and may be in need some medical attention.
How in hell would you know?
Wow someone else feels what I have been feeling but unable to put into words. I have explained too many friends that I feel as if I have my hearing back in both ears. I think as a Democrate I only heard things with my left ear. What this election cycle has done is made me listen with my right and left eay only to feel as if nothing fits. I find that neither side satisfies my requirements and I am left wondering were this will lead to.
I am aware that Obama will be our president within a few short days, but I have no respect for him. I wish him no evil, but wish America well. What occurred throughout the primaries and the elections have left the many people that did not or do not support him wondering what country are we living in. When did it become a crime to disagree with someone, when did the divide become so fragile that families started to fight amongst families? Was this what the civil war was like? The anger is raw on all sides, PUMA’s whether you chose to use the name or just acknowlege that you have the same feeling as those that do, it is real. Before this anger can go away many things have to occur, these are not going to happen overnight, so you have to be in this for the long haul and take all that comes with finding out you no longer fit into a mold. True not everything will be cookie cut clean, amongst those that are beginning to realize that the mold was not created with them in mind, there will be lots of ideas and plans. But in the end this to will make America stronger and better.
So to my friends stay strong and believe what we do today will make a better tomorrow.
no worries that you don’t respect obama, since no one will ever respect you for this ignorance. comparing ridicule on blogs to being MURDERED en masse? you are delusional. seek therapy. or anti-psychotic meds.
you are no liberal, kiddo. you have no sense of the reality and history of TRUE persecution. let me guess, i’ll bet you voted for mccain as a protest. no true liberal’s principles are up for sale at such a cheap price.
That’s become a compliment.
“Liberals” have no principles anymore – as was blatently proven in 2008. They’ve proven beyond doubt that they’re hateful hypocrites. So who in their right mind wants to be a liberal anymore?
AnglRdr,
I would agree. The former group are completely understandable (to me, at any rate); the latter are as inexplicable to me as the people who still insist that the current POTUS (as of 1/8/09) did a bang-up job and will be regarded highly by posterity.
For what it’s worth, if HRC had been the candidate, I would certainly have voted for her, and if any disaffected BHO supporters were carrying on in a PUMA fashion, I have no doubt that I’d feel exactly the same about it as I do about this current situation.
Exactly!
Anybody who would vote for John McCain has no business calling themselves a feminist.
Regardless of what name is used, anti-sentiment (yes feelings) toward another group with an expectation to just roll and expose their belly, “because”, simply will never do for anyone who has independent opinions, a personality of an individual and not a group, and any sibilance of self respect. In retrospect, I am grateful for the obvious and have become and will remain an independent until my dying day.
American Girl, very good article so thought provoking; and I find many parallels to my own ethnicity, native americans. So many have a romanticized version of that history, as those who will also have of the history of the Jews. Although not of the same degree, the beginnings of all hate come from denying rights to a group, classifying people because they are not followers of a particular”popular” idea or candidate, and so forth. This is the correlation that Pumas understood and
remain clear about. Clarity, allows room for truth and disagreement without persecution.
LOL! have they started bombing and gassing the clinton supporters now? before any damn fool gets on me for ‘reading the second paragraph,’ you mean that half-assed attempt at stuffing the genie back in the bottle? please. he damn well meant to make the comparison. if you believe the sad attempts to say ‘i don’t really mean that,’ you are amazingly naive.
to the “writer”: get over yourself. you are pathetic. there’s no martyr like a conservative, i guess. and please don’t try to claim you are anything other than that. so oppressed. what would you know about oppression? go cry to your mommy, some people have real problems. no one likes a whiner, much less one who has an overinflated sense of self-importance.
Ahs may think that PUMAs are funny but he won’t anymore once the joke ends up being on him. PUMAs know that Obama supporters never did their homework. We did. Ahs doesn’t know what it is like to know that during the campaign that 90% of what Obama said was lies and hypocrisy while others hear hope. It would have been easier to not have educated ourselves and to have just drank the kool-aid but we did a crazy thing. We thought we should educate ourselves about a candidate that we didn’t know anything about. We are not to blame that it was not pretty.
Yes I am an avid Hillary supporter. I remember at the beginning I thought even though Obama had little experience if he were to be Hillary’s VP then he could learn what he didn’t know and be president eight years later. Then I started to learn about him and as someone said it best “Know Obama, No Obama.” It also sad to say that I wanted Obama as Hillary’s VP because he is Black. I am ashamed that was my reason because for 32 yrs I felt Dr. MLK was one of the persons I respected the most. I guess subconciously I thought it would bring Dr. Kings dream to life. Since part of his dream speech said that “he couldn’t wait until the day his four children were judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin.” I am thankful that I studied Obama because I found he lacked character and that I only judge him favorable because of the color of his skin. To me he was elected because of that not to mention caucus fraud, voter disenfranchisment within his own party, and being a pre-selected candidate by the DNC. So I see that Dr. King’s true dream has yet to be meet in my opinion. I know you feel it doesn’t count but that’s too bad for you and the rights you have no clue that have been circumveted.
Julie,
Right on! Great post. I can tell you this…if you see our doc on caucus fraud…the saddest moment is to see Helen from Chicago…an AA woman who marched with MLK for civil rights, talk about Fraudbama and this “selection.” To hear an AA woman, who marched with MLK, talk about how sick it made her feel that blacks fought for the vote and then THIS nonsense happened…ughhh…every time I watch it my heart breaks. We actually had to cut more of what she said out of the film because we didn’t want to be called anti-Obama at that time. But it’s one of those things where you see what’s coming. This momentous, historical election of a black man is going to blow up SO BIG TIME that the cost to the AA community might be irreparable. Very sad.
Boo freaking hoo. What a boatload of whiny bastards…
[...] a similar vein, a commentator named Alibe on American Girl in Italy’s recent post writes: The current war between Hamas and Israel is [...]
[...] a similar vein, a commentator named Alibe on American Girl in Italy’s recent post writes: The current war between Hamas and Israel is [...]