Whither Zinni and Clark Goest?
By Sam Copeland on February 8, 2009 at 10:00 AM in Current Affairs
[Guest post by a popular political strategist who blogs for No Quarter under the name Sam Copeland]
Here is an interesting tidbit I just don’t know what to make of.
Two Generals were leaders in opposing the invasion of Iraq and subsequently calling for Rumsfeld’s resignation and a change of course in Iraq. Both did it at a time when this was not a popular position.
The two Generals: Anthony Zinni and Wes Clark.
Now, name two Generals that have been dissed by the Obama administration.
Answer: General Anthony Zinni and General Wes Clark.
Zinni was named ambassador to Iraq only to find out that he wasn’t. Clark has been given no role in the administration and was thrown under the bus when he tried to support Obama during the election campaign.
If you believe, as Barack Obama contended during the 2008 Presidential primary and election, that the mark of good judgment was early opposition to the war and that this sort of “good judgment” was more important than anything else, say, like experience, in selecting leaders for our country, then why are you dissing two Generals that showed this good judgment?
If you then have to convince a nation to change course in Iraq and Afghanistan, why are you dissing two Generals who have impeccable records of service to our nation (one served as head of CENTCOM and the other as NATO Supreme Allied Commander) and who would be of great service in explaining your policies to the American public?
Why is Obama doing this? Is it his inexperience or is there something more sinister afoot?
I don’t know the answer to this question, but I can assure you I am watching very closely in an attempt to discern an answer. These are the types of decisions that a President makes that reveal the true nature and direction of his (and hopefully in the near future, her) administration.
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Sam, Thank you very much for your post. I cannot understand this either.
In Wes Clark’s case, he has particularly been such a good soldier for the Democratic Party and worked tirelessly for the past 6 years, criss-crossing the country to get down ticket Dems elected, worked with VoteVets, and is the darling of the netroots community.
While he was an early endorser and campaigner for Hillary, once the primaries ended he got on the unity pony bandwagon (much to my chagrin and dismay) and dutifully campaigned for Obama.
Maybe Obama cannot forgive that he was not an early worshipper and he is exacting payback. If so, this is the height of goofy behavior.
I believe the only job Clark would be interested in, however, is SecDef and he is technically not eligible for the position until 2010, since one is supposed to be retired from the military for 10 years before assuming such a post (exceptions can be made but this is very rare), so we shall see.
Still, Gen. Clark is out there doing his commentator thing on various news networks still carrying the Dem’s water on various issues. Don’t know why he puts up with this crap.
Ani:
I think you hit upon something when you said that Clark
Obama wants to be their darling. This makes Clark a rival. I suspect this has crossed David Axelrod’s mind a time or two.
I am with you Sam. It makes no sense at all. Either the new admnistration is totally stupid or it is playing games that are not to the people’s advantage.
After 8 years of incompetence we deserve the best we have. Obama promised that. And now…
If not for the fact that I have seen nothing, but sleazy tactics out of Obama for over a year and a half, I might consider that a new President has seen what is really going on in daily briefings and has to do something other then what he had planned. Now as much as I’d like to believe that, it doesn’t make sense. A good leader would make a statement saying as much to defend his broken promises. No one in their right mind would have made the promises Obama made without a loophole for himself and it irritates the hell out of me that so many supported Obama over Clinton because of his Iraq “immediate withdrawl” and Clinton wanted to have a responsible withdrawl. I would ask people, “So you’d rather go with an irresponsible withdrawl? This is all so stupid! I knew a year ago that Obama could never just pull the troops out immediately and if he did, we would end up back there in the future. Just like the failures in 1991. I was a military wife back then and shocked that we left with completing the job.
No one should be surprised by this. You cannot trust Obama. He uses people to get what he wants and the hell with you, he doesn’t care what you want, he throws you away. Why did American voters think he gave a damn about them or the country? I saw no evidence of that ever. I am a scientist and I like evidence and facts. Obama is all rhetoric. No substance. Our President is an empty shell.
I’m so
prouddisgusted!“Our President is an empty shell”.
The empty shell has surrounded itself with “experts” for coming up with ideas and programs, from which he can pick and chose to claim as his. Half of the Dems realized that and helped Hillary, as did I. My heart races and my stomach turns every time I read/hear about this travesty of PBO’s “I won, so I can do what-the-hell-ever-I-want to”.
I supported Wes Clark in his first run for POTUS in ‘03/04 and for all the things he’s done ever since. He would not have let happen in this country/world that which has happened. When he endorsed Hillary instead of another run for himself, I supported her: time, money, blog, campaign work, etc., because she was my second choice next to Clark. I have not and do not support PBO because I don’t believe he’s up to the job he got himself into by any means he could conceive.
I have been furious that he passed over Wes Clark for any cabinet/ambassadorship/SOS, and just threw him under the bus after the true statement he was led into on the Face the Nation program, and PBO dissed him, and wouldn’t apologize that he’d been so quick to judge Clark’s statement. Clark was just barely mentioned at the Dem convention Retired Generals parade across the stage, and he was the only one of those, as I recall, who was NATO Commander, along with many other high honors.
And now the Gen Zinni debacle! That’s another: “I screwed up” screw-up PBO’s made, along with Daschle, and a couple others whose names came and went so quickly they can’t be remembered. PBO didn’t take time to study who the nominees were, and he sure as hell didn’t know what his to-be NSA was doing about choosing his staff. But, WHERE’S THE MEDIA on these screw-ups??? Silently, ever so silently, Clark has disappeared from the MSM in the PBO news. Gen. Zinni told PBO to “pee up a tree” for the Saudi ambassadorship. I wouldn’t blame him. I still hear Wes Clark putting in favorable comments for PBO….He is and has been great for the Democratic party and deserves a high place in party/administration offices.
I, too, voted for Wes in the 04 primary. I’m a huge fan but very disappointed that he supported BHO…even as the good soldier. But, I came to realize that it’s his training. He has to support whoever is CIC. Trouble with that is he is so much more intelligent than BHO and doesn’t carry all the psychological crap that BHO does.
BHO would look even more diminished standing next to Wes and they know it.
I am not an American but I have been supporting Gen. Clark since 2003. At his supporting Mr. Obama after Hillary unfortunately lost opportunity to be nominated, Gen. Clark had to support any democratic nominee for the next president, not the Mr. Bush’s 3rd term.
Gen. Clark is determined and selfless when he needs to be so. He’s truly a good American who the world respects.
Hope America Strong, Just and Hopeful!
I’ve quit trying to make sense of the ONE.
I’ve quit trying to make sense of anyone who actually thinks the ONE is the president we need at this time.
Me, too. I’ve also quit trying to understand people who can’t accept that he is not, nor will he ever be, my president.
The ones who don’t understand that 0zero is a danger to America — aren’t worth bothering with. The are seriously psychotic — lost in their own world — and not part of reality.
I’m redoing my will and making sure that 0zero zombies are written out. The nephews are expecting something — yep they will get “something” — NOT.
Not that I’m expecting to die any time soon — but it is a great feeling to be able to leave a message beyond the grave.
NWR:
I went to see Gran Torino a while back. I think you could get some ideas from the reading of the will at the end of the film…very funny and expresses that same idea.
I liked it film very much btw. Clint didn’t get a nod for the awards because the little PC bots didn’t understand that the story was the transformation of the character he portrayed. All they could see was his generational very unPC attitudes. I, however, loved every minute of his character. Reminded me of my Dad and a cousin by marriage who used to laugh at ethnic pokes they’d take at each other…The youngens’ don’t get Archie Bunker either. Over their heads. Wait and see, the very correct Sean Penn will win. Not that I care who they pick…just that political correctness rules the day in LA so it hardly matters. Clint on the other hand gave one of the biggest donations the RNC ever received this past election. I’ll bet he liked Sarah’s POV.
The entire Obama administration, with the exception of the state department, is one giant TV show with an initial budget of 920 Billion dollars and counting.
One of the biggest reason why the market is tanking is because of luck of confidence in Obama. No body believes this fraud.
Time to resurrect this old classic:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/08/the_odd_choices_in_barack_obam.html
Too bad the prediction did not come true! I am still baffled that we have PITO. Why? Why in hell would people have chosen this after 8 years of Bush? Why?
God help us!
During the primaries and campaign, the media helped perpetuate the myth that Obama was against the war because this is why a large number of the electorate were behind him in the first place. As much as his convention keynote speech, his few bits of anti-war rhetoric when he was an IL State Senator put him on the national political radar map. In reality, the current POTUS made subsequent statements to the effect that if he’d been in the US Senate at the time of crucial votes he’d probably have gone along with Bush’s plans.
But people believe what they want to believe and now, we’re ironically hearing very few complaints from anti-war Obama supporters. They were tossed some crumbs via the Executive Order that claims Guantanamo will close in a year. Until it happens, it’s just a piece of paper. Besides, we have no idea yet what alternative will be proposed.
One of the things to consider is that both these ex-generals are smart, highly independent men, used to identifying and fixing problems and used to – leading.
These are exactly the kind of people Obama does not want anywhere near him or his cadres.
Another related, and very scary, development is the growth of Obama’s shadow government. The process looks like Obama will set up an acceptable cabinet post, say, Hilary as SoS, then immediately set up an ‘advisor’ on the staff (not subject to Senate approval) such as Samantha Powers, as the shadow SoS. The latest accretion of power was announced today as the powers of the NSA (Jim Jones) were vastly increased and now is the conduit for all decision-making vis a vis DoD, SoS and the intelligence community.
Forget the surface propaganda and look at what is going on in the power struggle as President-for-life Obama consolidates his power.
I think Craig D-P may be on to something. Obama appears to be wary of indepednent, competent people. That could be his own narcicissm OR it could be that those who actually are pulling his strings don’t want anyone messing with the plan (whatever the hell that is!)
True. While I do not know to much about Gen. Zinni, Gen. Clark is a star. I am sure these are both overachievers who get the job done — O does not want to share the limelight, that much we know.
He lacks experience and therefore, hard earned confidence. He is afraid to show the chinks in his armor to very smart, experienced and knowledgeable people who he thinks are not completely loyal to him. I don’t know how Hillary fits into this mix but it is clear he needs a Samantha Power to spy on her and report back to him so he can get his act together.
These were exactly my thoughts when I read this a short while ago.
Didn’t we all believe that becoming SoS would be a bad move for Hillary? She’s only been there for days and already her authority is being taken away.
Regarding General Zinni, I have misgivings about making a general into an ambassador to the country in which he was acting as a general. Wouldn’t he be seen by the population as one of the occupiers, rather than as a diplomat? I read Larry’s blog about this and I understand how qualified in many respects Zinni is, and how lacking the nominee is for this particular posting, but I still wonder. I’m sure that has nothing to do with Obama’s decision, probably didn’t even occur to him. He seems to have personal reasons for everything, nothing ever seems to relate to what would be best for the country.
A classic control mechanism. when you face high level opposition -then dilute it by numbers -upgrade another agency .
Here’s something I think most GIs and Vets have figured out. Obama does not like the military – period.
Note the cool reception Obama got when he visited those Marines.
Note the cool reception Michelle got when she spoke in front of a group of Vets. The speech where she suddenly expressed her ‘concern’ for veterans and promised to help them. This was an idea she stole from Hillary Clinton.
The military is another tool to be used as Obama sees fit and to be discarded when necessary. This is Obama’s MO. I don’t understand why is anyone surprised.
Certainly we are not and have not been from the beginning. Just watching the man’s behavior, I truly cannot believe his supporters, especially the older ones) are that gullible.
I think candymarl’s observation is correct. To say the least, Obama has a lot of work to do in this regard and so does the Democratic party — as General Clark pointed out in a recent op-ed.
Dissing Generals doesn’t help.
With VoteVet and other similar organizations, the Democrats had an opportunity to make progress in becoming the party of national security as it was at the height of All-American Liberalism (from FDR to JFK). Opportunity squandered.
I say it’s both. Because he doesn’t know better himself and is allowing his donors and handlers to make his decisions for him (as we knew) AND, as we also knew, he will not have our troops out of there in a years time…or his revised 16 months. Just like his advisors were posting during the election, having about 65-80K troops in Iraq still by Dec 2010. And Biden confirmed THAT when he said they will be following the Bush Iraq Plan.
no surprises here.
Good post, Sam. More people need to be talking about why Obama is ignoring some of the top talent we have to offer. OK, I’m good with Hillary and a few others, but disrespscting and not including Zinni and Clark? It’s crazy.
My Man Clark General SIR! He (imo) realized early on how crooked BAmBi was and took his life raft and rowed quietly away before the ship sunk!
jmo
He’s a decent man. A Rhodes Scholar like Bill C and quiet good friends with Hillary and Bill (still) which says a LOT to me.
ok – even though I stopped considering myself an active CLARKIE I will always HEART them for their trying to keep it clean and honorable and honest for the countries sake.
That’s my belief after watching this man for over a decade! He’s about as clean as they come. He and SARAH would be an OUTSTANDING Prez/VP combo.
just considering as he is able (like myself) to be friends with someone even though they may disagree politically as long as they are not blatantly CROOKED!
(Zinni also is my hero)
Sorry, Dawnelle, you’re stuck, once a Clarkie always a Clarkie. I will never forget the day I met him. I literally ran into him. He, as a general, could have made our family’s lives a living hell, but he took the blame and apoligized to a lowly enlisted person’s spouse. I will always be a loyal Clarkie. He earns respect from his men, he doesn’t demand it. Great, now I’m depressed all over again. A great man having to stand behind a mediocre one. The way of the bloody world.
Hey there Miss Berry of the Straw!! (ltns) Welcome to Another SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY on the BLOG!
I’m afraid you are probably correct. Same with once a PUMA always a W00T!!
Don’t get too depressed. Things WILL turn around eventually, they have to, it’s the WAY it works. (or so they keep telling me)
whom EVER “THEY” are/were
argh! backed into the corner, I go.
my bad
Thank you for writing about this, Sam. It’s part of a larger problem that needs to be addressed. Keep up your insightful observations and analyses!!!
Yes, Strawberry, once a Clarkie, always a Clarkie–and I hope he never, ever sets a toe anywhere NEAR the O! and CO. Looks like it’s going that way so far.
Still supporting Gen. Clark all the way!
mido
My youngest grandson just gave back a box of political buttons, etc., (for safe keeping) I had given him to collect. Some great Bill and Hill buttons from ‘92.
Just realized that my mini Clark Bar they handed out during his first run is missing. Guess Kevin ate it.
I have a hot pink “NiXON now more than ever”.badge.
Ya’ gotta wonder, Sam.
Meanwhile at the National Security Council, Gen. James Jones will have unprecedented power as the NSC role is expanded. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29078957/. It’s clear that in the Obama administration power will be concentrated in the White House, not in the Departments.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
STANNNNNNNNNNN!! I remember you!!!
I’m sooooo glad Clarkies are STILL HERE!! W00T!
Clarkie here too. Love that guy!
Good to hear that
I’m with mido in that I want my General Clark no where near this farce of a president, but I am curious as all hell to know who it was that poisoned Obama’s mind against one of the most liberal, honorable, intelligent men I’ve ever had the privilege to support.
When one looks at the people Obama has chosen to surround himself with throughout his life, it is no surprise he would shun someone like General Clark. Still, I am quite certain he was fed information by someone close to him that resulted in him running over Clark with that big old bus during the primaries.
Perhaps Obama never had a bit of good judgment.
Perhaps Obama has been coerced into a puppet’s role due to blackmail over his past pay to play or questionable campaign fundraising, and is now in survival mode, so easy to control.
Perhaps. Perhaps. Perhaps.
I shall don my tinfoil hat and take that hypothesis a step further.
He was put in the position to take the brass ring precisely because of the ease with which this coercion could take place. The goods on him were always there, and the powers were poised and ready to take advantage all along. Which tell me that 0’s narcissism and hubris is his own worst enemy.
Wrapping myself in what left of the tinfoil, in addition to adding another layer to the helmet, I shall go one step further (and off the cliff.)
Looking back on the questionable history of who, exactly, was bankrolling his education and the spring break jaunt to Pakistan, and who was pulling the strings of his so-called ‘meteoric rise’, one might, perhaps, perhaps, perhaps, posit, that this was in motion for Quite Some Time.
There. I said it. OK. I’m crazy. Whatever.
What the great 0 and many others don’t understand is the tremendous work and ability it takes to become a 4-star general. They also don’t understand that those who spend a lifetime in the military are those who understand that war is the last, last, last resort. It’s not like the movies. Real people die.
The army does the vetting, the testing, the training, and the promotion. Wes Clark was sent to Oxford courtesy of the Army; he finished at the top of virtually every training or educational stop he took.
His degree is in politics and philosophy; his mental capabilites and strategic thinking continue to amaze those who know him. On top of that, he’s a natural born teacher.
Imagine: brains and a heart in the same person. People like this come around once in a century – if that.
If Clark was eligible in Europe, he would have been voted president many times over. Here he’s basically ignored by the media and certainly by the nitwits in 0’s camp.
Luckily, Clark is engaged in many defense groups in D.C. Maybe this is the only was he can get his ideas heard.
I don’t know that much about Zinni, but I would venture a guess he’s no slouch, either. As I said, you don’t get to be a 4 star by sitting on your hands.
Brains, heart and incredibly brave. Bill told a story about Wes and how he jumped out of a car in a convoy and “ran down the side of a mountain”, burning his hands attempting to rescue occupants in a car that had gone over the side of the road during the Bosnian war.
In your wildest dreams could you imagine PBO doing anything remotely close?
I continue to be haunted by the picture of PBO watching all alone, himself on the big screen TV. Finally realized what it reminds me of…”Mirror, mirror on the wall, who’s the fairest of them all?” Creeeeeepy.
I remember hearing the story
He had to rappel (SP) quite a distance too but you NEVER leave a man behind.
My MOM fell for Gen. Clark in 2003 – I was still hoping AL G would run again. He turned into a big disappointment as well. Grr. But it was fortuitous as I fell hard for the GEN as well. He’s a good man. Honorable. Tough. Fair. Love him. Love his sweet wife and hottie son too (lol)
Did Wes JR. fold for Bambi in the end? He’s Hollywood sort of right? (hope not)
Love seeing all the familiar names from the old Clark board. (jen, stan, donjo, etc)
kewl
For those not familiar with the heroic efforts of General Clark to save the lives of others on a Bosnian hillside, Richard Holbrooke dramatically recounts the story on pages 9-13 in his book “To End a War.”
If you seek to understand the role of the military in complex operations, I strongly recommend Holbrooke’s book along with General Clark’s “Waging Modern War.”
i ordered clark’s book in 2004 and waited in vain for it to arrive. i always like to think that some clarkie in the post office just couldn’t help themselves.
Sam Copeland:
Could it be that the Zinni’s bizarre appointment/non-appointment situation is due to a recent chance in PBO’s pledge to get out of Iraq in 16th months?
Now that PBO is in the WH, he is saying 23 months. So I wonder whether PBO long term plan for Iraq is not in sync now with Zinni??
The PBO/Zinni debacle has been pretty shameful …
For whatever reason that The One has decided to diss Wes Clark is a complete validation that the man has no judgement, no desire to surround himself with excellent advisors, and he’s extremely egotistical. I still stand with Gen. Clark 6 years after deciding he would make an amazing president.
Except that Wes would want to help his country and knows that he has valuable insights to contribute, I’d prefer to see him as far away from this occupant of the Oval Office as possible. Wes is far too good for O.
Tony Zinni and Wes Clark
Meant to finish by saying Tony Zinnin and Wes Clark are men of honor, love of country and integrity. Obama isn’t able to relate.
We were and are “Clarkies” too.
Met the General several times when he was campaigning in AZ. He looks you in the eye, listens to what you say and answers whatever he is asked.
In the course of working for his campaign we spoke with many, many, active and retired military of all ranks who had served with the General.
Never met anyone who had an unfavorable word to say about Clark. His concern for those who served in his command and their families is legendary.
I’m convinced that no person as experienced, intelligent, honest, caring, articulate, charismatic as General Clark will ever become a presidential nominee. Our political system is too indebted to corporate interests to fund such a candidate and our entrenched politicians would not look kindly on someone who would easily outshine them.
General Jones who retired from the Marines only two years ago, was appointed to the boards of Exon and Boeing and he took a position working for a division of the national Chamber of Commerce. Clark did not go that route which so many high ranking officers do to enrich themselves.
It appears that Jones is a republican. Jones announced today that he will revamp National Security and include the Dept. of Commerce and Transportation in that network. Obama has appointed republicans to head Commerce and Transportation and kept Gates and his entire staff at DOD.
How can the public believe that Obama and the democrats were serious when they critisized the Bush Adm. for their stand on Iraq and national security when democrats have put or left republicans in charge of our national security?
Furthermore isn’t appointing or leaving republicans in these positions offending qualified democrats who should have received these appointments??
I’m old but not senile! I don’t understand any of this!!
Did not Wes Clarke do the dirty A lick for Obama with a highly offensive (militarily) jibe at McCain?
How can you back someone like that?
Whilst MCain may not have made a good president Clarke used MCains military experience against him, saying that being shot down did not count for anything. In fact that statement enabled many voters to dismiss MCainwithout feeling guilty..
Clarke thought he knew Obama but hey -he did not .
No, No, No. That’s the way it was spun. The commentator (Bill Schnbeider? forget) asked Clark if parachuting out of an airline was a qualification and Clark said it wasn’t for being president. Well, it isn’t! Clark never dissed McCain for his service and sacrifice. It was just limited to that one narrow incident and Clark was reacting, not initiating the point.
Obama immediately distanced from Clark when he could have, instead, helped explain the circumstance.
This article points out some valid and troubling questions about the one, apparently he is not quite who he professed to be.
If Clark said that, Librarian, I might agree with you – but he didn’t say that.
He said, “Well, I don’t think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president.”
Sounds to me like he got that one right.
-
Clarke said those words & he knew how that would be taken.
You cant have him being mega intelligent & not realising it negate mcCains military advantage ober Obama.
‘Riding in a fighter plane”..is offensive . MccAin was the pilot .
This allowed the LA times to publish a critique on mCains history eg his crashing x number of planes prior to this.
Prior to this turn -mccAin was respected then…hey hey he doesnt even have that over Obama.
Wes Clarke was overtaken by jealousy.
Librarian, first off, please spell the name correctly. Wes Clark is spelled without an “e”, unlike Richard Clarke which does have an “e”.
Secondly, during an interview on Face the Nation, Bob Sheiffer asked Wes Clark whether or not the fact that John McCain was a fighter pilot and got shot down is qualification for being president. Of course, Clark said that aspect of McCain’s career and the action of being shot down does not mean a person is automatically qualified. C’mon. Consider all the men (and now women) who have been pilots in wars and have been shot down. Would you say that single action has qualified hundreds of people to be president? Get serious, now. Of course not. McCain’s service and the courage displayed during captivity was hailed by Clark and said that so many honored his service and heroism. But being a pilot and being shot down does not bestow qualifications to be president. Anymore than being born of parents of different races and serving 2 years in the U.S. Senate qualifies you.