Who’s Running the White House? [Updates]
By SusanUnPC on April 22, 2009 at 11:58 PM in Al Qaeda, Counterterrorism, George Soros, Intelligence, MoveOn.org, Terrorism, Torture
(bumped up from Wednesday morning)
George Soros, maybe? The problem in appeasing these activist groups is that there are profoundly serious intelligence-gathering and counterterrorism implications, and extraordinarily time- and energy-consuming legal tasks and confusing agency expectations behind what Obama is suddenly proposing that could suck all the oxygen out of his presidency and the entire federal intelligence apparatus. We’ll explore those prospects below.
Update #1: Worry not about my position. I am solidly anti-torture and pro-punishment. Heck, I wrote articles daily for over three years about Bush/Cheney’s torture policies. I’ve written about heroes like FBI Special Agent Dan Coleman who extracted confessions from the African embassy bombers sans torture and Alberto Mora, a conservative Republican and the U.S. Navy’s chief legal counsel who fought tooth and nail against Addington et al. . But I’m extremely worried about Obama’s motives, far-left influences, and lack of thought behind these momentous decisions. He appears clueless about the can of worms he’s opened. I also think that the POVs of two heroic Americans, Bob Baer and Gary Bernsten, deserve a platform. Agree or not, they’ve walked the walk. They’ve been inside Al Qaeda safehouses and dealt directly with these monsters.
Update #2: I strongly recommend Andrew J. Bacevich’s CNN essay that asserts that Obama can’t simply being the “un-Bush” and (ouch!) adds, “Pragmatism devoid of principle provides an inadequate basis for coherent strategy.” Besides being “devoid of principle,” Obama’s positions are confusing as all get out — which further stresses, not only us, but also our essential intelligence service members!]
UPDATE #3: See Politico’s “Obama muddles torture message.”
After patting the heads of CIA employees as if they were little children — “So don’t be discouraged by what’s happened in the last few weeks. Don’t be discouraged that we have to acknowledge potentially we’ve made some mistakes. That’s how we learn,” he told the assembled crowd at CIA headquarters yesterday – he did a flip-flop today following intense pressure from his far-left base on which he counts for, what else, money. Reports CNN’s Ed Henry:
[I]n the last 24 hours we’ve seen groups like MoveOn.org on the left come out and write a petition to the Attorney General saying they want accountability from the Bush administration. Is this an example of this White House giving in to pressure from the left?
It’s early to see what’s going to happen next. But I’m pointing to the disturbing clockwork flip-flop, the motive (always money), and Obama’s lack of thought about what this is all going to entail.
Furthermore, after having decided to release the formerly classified “torture memos” and to not seek prosecution of those involved, he hastily pivots and opens a big can of worms. From the UK Telegraph’s “Barack Obama opens Pandora’s Box with green light for ‘torture’ prosecutions“:
Barack Obama’s decision to give the nod to Congress and his attorney general to investigate and possibly prosecute former Bush administration officials opens a Pandora’s Box that could ultimately consume his presidency.
When he released the four so-called “torture” memos - the Obama administration has now all but abandoned their use of the t-word - the new president, who has yet to pass the early landmark of 100 days in office - insisted he wanted to “move forward”.
He added that “at a time of great challenges and disturbing disunity, nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past”.
[...]
The platitudes about drawing a line under the past were still being mouthed but they rang decidedly hollow as Gibbs talked of an investigation on the scale of the 9/11 Commission - which took two years and millions of dollars.
Obama reversed himself because of press from Congressional Democrats, who want to haul officials before their committees for what could become the political equivalent of show trials, and Left-wing groups such as MoveOn.org.
The problem for Obama is that many on the Left will not be happy until President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney are in leg irons and sharing a cell at the Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado along with the likes of the Unabomber.
[...]
The hornet’s nest that Obama has just stirred up is bad enough even in the current climate, when it is more than seven years since the US has been attacked by al-Qaeda.
It will be nothing, however compared to the aftermath of another terrorist attack on US soil - which many intelligence officials believe is inevitable - when Americans will once again be clamouring to find out why Obama did not “connect the dots” and demanding to know how he will stop another Islamist strike.
This is why I had to write about V.P. Joe Biden’s astonishingly reckless remarks recently in “Motor Mouth Joe’s Telepathic Certitude” when he told CNN reporters that “I guarantee you we are safer today, our interests are more secure today than they were any time during the eight years” of the Bush administration.”
These two are setting themselves up for a major backlash, along with blowback, if their actions and words fail them.
“Barack Obama opens Pandora’s Box with green light for ‘torture’ prosecutions“ brings up another important point, echoed last night on CNN’s AC360 by highly experienced former CIA agents Bob Baer and Gary Bernsten, both friends of Larry Johnson. Writes the Telegraph:
Already, the fightback on the Right has begun. Although it might be questionable whether Cheney’s re-entry into the political fray benefits Republicans who are themselves trying to move on from the Bush years, his argument that more memos ought to be released is hard to argue with.
Cheney and other former Bush administration officials, as well as the former CIA chief Michael Hayden - a intelligence professional and no political partisan - maintain strenuously that the interrogation techniques yielded information that saved American lives. The former vice-president maintains that there are memos that details this. If there are, we need to see them.
We know that Bob Baer and Gary Bernsten are anti-torture, but they agree that a careful, prudent review is in order and they too want to SEE the documents. Bernsten also questions the wisdom of Obama’s release of the “torture memos.” From AC360’s transcript Monday night
COOPER: Vice President Cheney has been saying this for a long time, that — that these activities, water-boarding, worked.
A, do you believe that? And, B, do you think those memos which showed, according to him, what the results were should be released?
ROBERT BAER, INTELLIGENCE ANALYST, TIME.COM: Could I answer that?
COOPER: Yes.
BAER: Look, Cheney’s right. We have to start out by finding out, is it worth it? I don’t know of any cases where, specifically, it saved lives. No case has been made in the public. And we need to see that, to see whether this is justified, and then you can carry on the argument whether it should be done or shouldn’t.
But, so far, Michael Hayden, and no one else, has said, look, Abu Zubaydah led to the saving of American lives.
When I see that, I will trust it, but I haven’t seen it yet. So, Cheney’s right. I hate to agree with him, but he’s right.
COOPER: Gary?
GARY BERNTSEN, AUTHOR, “HUMAN INTELLIGENCE, COUNTERTERRORISM AND NATIONAL LEADERSHIP: A PRACTICAL GUIDE”: I agree with Bob. Let’s take a look and let’s examine the record.
Look, both sides, whether they be Republicans or Democrats, when they’re in charge of the White House, spin on the issue of terror. And let’s have a fair examination of what was said.
… And the argument has been out there that — that these documents should have been — should not have been released because it’s already been in the press.
I can say this. Having been inside of al Qaeda safe houses myself and gone through the documents, frequently, they like official American documents. They download them. They study them. They train off of them.
COOPER: You’re saying this is giving too much intelligence to the enemy?
BERNTSEN: Too much. I don’t think we should have released these documents in the first place.
This portion is fascinating since both Bernsten and Baer are EXPERTS on Al Qaeda and how it collects information on the United States methodologies and operating procedures:
Joining me, Robert Baer, former CIA officer and intelligence analyst at TIME.com. Also, Gary Berntsen, former CIA officer and author.
Gary, before the commercial break, you basically made the point that, by doing this, by releasing these memos, we’re basically giving all this information to our enemies, to al Qaeda to know exactly what they will face if they are ever caught. ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA OFFICER, INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: You know, it wasn’t much of a secret because in “The New York Review of Books,” it details, Mark Danner’s article exactly what happened. And you look at the SERE (ph) manuals, escape invasion manuals that the military puts out. and you pretty well know what the program is and you’ve got some original documents.
Now, I agree with Gary, you don’t want to take intelligence and splash it across the papers. It’s the worst thing to do, but it’s already out there. The problem is that, once these guys start being released, they have detailed exactly what happened to them, in greater detail that was in those memos.
So the secret was out, and it was doomed from the beginning that we’d ever be able to keep this secret.
COOPER: Gary?
GARY BERNTSEN, FORMER CIA OFFICER, AUTHOR: Not all of them were debriefed in the same ways. But I’ll say this, that al Qaeda doesn’t cut out — wasn’t cutting out newspaper articles and saving them. They were looking for official documents, training manuals. The SERE (ph) manual Bob’s talking about, they had that, too. They had a lot of things. They’ll download documents from the White House Web site.
COOPER: What about the argument that this makes it — if the U.S. is doing this kind of stuff, then when an American is held captive somewhere and tortured, there’s not much we can complain about.
BERNTSEN: Americans are kidnapped and tortured all the time. We received no protection under the Geneva Convention from Hezbollah, from Hamas, from al Qaeda, from the Taliban. There are no American prisoners there. They kill and torture every one of us.
COOPER: But in a war if we’re captured in state by a state by a government…
BERNTSEN: By a state, they’re going to sign the Geneva Convention. These guys didn’t sign the Geneva Convention.
COOPER: But doesn’t this then, essentially, nullify the Geneva Convention? Doesn’t it make it OK by North Korea or anyone else?
BERNTSEN: Under the Geneva Convention — well, first of all, the issue of enemy combatants is really what we’re discussing. The al Qaeda members don’t, you know, receive Geneva Convention treatment, because they don’t meet the four standards: you know, not under — not in uniform; not carrying arms openly; not under the authority of a competent person; and finally, not conducting themselves in courts with rules of law. They don’t meet that. They’re marauders.
I’ve argued that many of those people could have been and should have been executed for their participation in this. I’m not a supporter of torture, but I will say this, though. We live in very, very dangerous times. Eventually, we’ll face a situation where we have WMD, someone will be picked up with this, and then President Obama, if he’s, you know, in two terms, one or two terms, in the future we’re going to face — a president will face a situation where they’re going to have to make very difficult decisions. And you should never say never.
COOPER: Bob, does this stuff work?
BAER: No, it doesn’t work. On torture we’ve looked, over the years. The Israelis have looked at it. The French have tortured people in Algeria, and it generally leads to false leads.
You know, there’s a question of the ticking bomb: is it going to go off and you get the right guy? But in general, it’s good, old- fashioned espionage that works. And that’s what we should be doing.
BERNTSEN: We want good, old-fashioned espionage. I agree. Torture, sadly, works very, very well. A lot of horrible governments use it. And they’re getting incredibly — incredibly accurate results off of it. And that’s how a lot of these terrible dictators have held themselves in power.
That’s not to say that we should be doing it. What we need to recognize, we live in a world now where we’re going to see WMD used in terror. That’s the next phase. Hang onto your hats.
COOPER: Bob, it’s interesting, you know. For years, really, we have heard sort of unnamed sources telling reporters over the course of time, you know, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was waterboarded, or these two suspects were waterboarded a handful of occasions. Now it turns out we’re talking about, you know, dozens, more than several hundred times.
BAER: Well, the man was — the man was completely broken morally and physically, as well. It’s clear. You look at his affidavit, when he ended up in Guantanamo, and it’s pure dribble. I see no evidence in that affidavit that he gave up any al Qaeda operations, if he knew them, in fact, that saved American lives.
Again, it goes back to the Cheney argument. The government better prove that this actually worked, and there’s no reason why they can’t take these interrogation reports and put them out. It’s not violating sources and methods.
COOPER: Gary, do you take the fact that we did it so much that it worked or that it didn’t work?
BERNTSEN: I wouldn’t put them out, but he had a ten-year operational history, Khalid Mohammed. That’s probably why they did this so many times.
BERNTSEN: You know, we’ve got to go remember, only three people were waterboarded: Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, Ramzi Binalshibh and I believe it [Abe Zubaydah], the guy who did the attack on the Cole. There were only three that were waterboarded. So this wasn’t broadly done. …
I’m with Larry Johnson and Jane Mayer, who’s done more investigative reporting than any other journalist to prove that torture does not work.
But these are not ordinary enemies. These are not the soldiers for a nation. They’re extra-national operators who are willing to do ANYTHING to bring the United States down.
But we also need to consider what these experts say, and we must consider — very deliberately — the implications of what Obama is doing, at the bidding of the far left, of George Soros, of MoveOn, of the ACLU, of the Daily Kossacks.
In my book, national security trumps revenge, no matter how sweet it may be against the likes of Dick Cheney and repellant attorneys like John Yoo. So it seems prudent to at least consider the blowback from public hearings, special prosecutors, and the revelations of more classified documents.
It’s easy as hell for MoveOn et al. to demand that President Obama do this or that. MoveOn and its noisy members have no skin in the game. They’re typical hard-core lefties who want what they want when they want it.
One should be very careful about caving in to such demands without considering the ramifications. And dancing back and forth on such grave matters hardly builds confidence amongst the American people and, I would venture, the intelligence community.
For more on this growing debate and division of viewpoints, check out Memeorandum.com here and here.
(Release: November 13)
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Not at all. Let us not forget as well that after 9-11 we were and still are at a state of war with this group which does not have a nation. So, there is nobody to sanction or embargo. We made a choice after 9-11 to move the front lines of that war off our shores. We seem now to be allowing the front lines to be shifted. None of this is directly about torture. Torture is a separate issue. I also don’t think we ought to go there. If we have, then we need to correct our internal procedures. What we do not need is to publicly air our dirty laundry on the lawn of the very world itself. I would question the motives of anybody who would want that.
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Link
This while the Pentagon had two terrabytes of F-22 R&D data “stolen”. Who is is charge?
I may be wrong, but I believe the hacking involved the F25.
Thanks Justme
Snip~~
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Richard Clarke had made some effort in this direction.
Obama has to do what Soros tells him to because Soros has the “goods” on him. He knows the truth about his birth certificate, his college records, and his campaign financing. Obama is a puppet on a string spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep the lawsuits from making it to court. How else do you explain spending almost a million so far to a lawfirm that does nothing but squelch the civil rights of Americans trying to get to the truth.
I think it has more to do with Soros holding the purse strings for the all-important MoveOn, ACORN, and blogs. I’m sure Soros is behind the financing of many blogs as well.
Also: Soros holds tremendous sway over the American economy, given his gift for somehow always making money when regular people lose their shirts.
SAY: Do any of you still belong to MoveOn? I quit quite a while ago. I forget when I joined, but I think it was around 2005, during the all-out push against Bush, and when I was writing stories every day on Bush/Cheney’s torture practices.
You know, that’s another thing that Obama is skipping over: He’s not addressing the Pentagon’s okaying of vicious torture at many military bases in Iraq and Afghanistan — Bagram air base in Afghanistan is one that especially stands out.
Have any of you seen “Taxi to the Dark Side,” the documentary that won the Academy Award last year? It is a horrific story of an innocent Afghan taxi driver caught up in a sweep, hung for three days by his arms and beaten so badly on his legs that he died. Medical examiners said that, if he had lived, he would have had to have BOTH legs amputated. Why in the name of god were U.S. military personnel ordered to perform this kind of excruciating, unspeakable torture? WHO ordered this? How high up did the orders go? Why did Rumsfeld end the career of the Army general who had the thankless job of preparing the report on military torture? Questions — I have a few. Yet Obama seems not to be addressing any of these.
Yes, Soros broke the pound and made nearly a billion from it in a day. He would like to profit from us in the same way. He doesn’t need the money, he probably just likes the challenge of it. I don’t think it’s evil at all as much as pride and accomplishment. He can’t break us on his own. He needs help in doing so. Not overt help, but covert complicit help. The enemy of my enemy is my friend… wink-wink sort of help. I don’t think the far left has anybody in power that is even in the same league with Soros to even be able to play with him on a level field without getting pwned trying to do so. That is our greatest danger.
Please provide more info on the above. A link, perhaps. I have many questions on that subject for which I would like to find answers.
I have been following everything I can find on this. I read this yesterday on World Net about $800,000 spent to just one firm so far for this. The had a re-print of the letter sent to the military officer bringing suit that the judge threw out because it had been proven on blogs and twitters. What junk! I will try to find the article again. The attorney threatened the officer with reprisal in fees if he appealed, but he said he would not be threatened and will appeal.
Eastan,
Check out these links regarding who’s controlling Obama and the Democratic party:
http://www.rense.com/general80/sor.htm
http://blog.b92.net/text/5106/Obama%20i%20Soros,%20ili%20Soros%20i%20Obama/
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/site/comments/obama-endorses-soros-plan-to-loot-america/
Soros OWNS the Fraud. And he makes his money destroying currencies. That’s why our dollar will soon collapse. He’s the guy, along with his other billionaire buddies, who manipulated the market in September when McCain was ahead in the polls. These people are very Anti-America and dangerous to us. Hillary would never have been OWNED by Soros, so they booted for the Fraud. The Fraud would sell America out for a dollar.
I totally forgot that it WAS George Soror that Obama is indebted to. Now it totally makes so much more sense. Soros has stated that he is making billions off of America’s downturn. If you think about Obama’s decisions and his statement about the Dow Jones having no importance, guess who it would benefit the most…wow.
A Must See:
http://professorbainbridge.com/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=3058
In WW2 we EXECUTED Japanese soldiers for water boarding US and British soldiers. Bush and Cheney each deserve the same brand of American justice. Hang them!
I can’t remember which person I heard say this yesterday (it could have been the panel on Special Report with Bret Baier) — but she said that in the Nuremberg trials, the fact that the Nazis on trial defended themselves by saying that they were following the law (yes, under the Nazis, what they did was legal), it had no meaning and they were punished anyway.
Unfortunately, I’m cursed with being able to see all sides to a complex question. It’s one reason I hope I’m not called for jury duty because I’d be like that character in “Twelve Men,” i think the film was named. Unless the proof is absolutely clear, I can too easily see reasonable doubt. I even had trouble with the O.J. trial because the jurors KNEW that the police had manipulated evidence. It’s annoying being like that, I can assure you.
I found the comments by Bob Baer and Gary Bernsten not just fascinating but VERY IMPORTANT. If these two experts — Bernsten said he’s been inside Al Qaeda safe houses and viewed the U.S. documents they had on hand and studied — are concerned about our revealing too much publicly, then I am worried too.
Another issue I have is that the underlings are almost always the only ones punished. And if only some CIA officers get punished, that will be a huge morale problem for the CIA. Imo, the higher ups should be the focus of the investigation — including Cheney, Bush, David Addington, Gonzales, Rumsfeld and — dammit — John Yoo, that sick, twisted law professor who is torture-mad. And Bybee should be impeached and kicked off the federal bench.
For once, let’s go after those at the top who began and promoted the policies.
(But will we give away too many secrets to the terrorists? Is there a way to do this without spilling the beans?)
This is only because we won that war. Had we lost that war then none of the Nazis would have been tried at all. I think we can extrapolate this to Al Qaeda. If they prevail in this war on us, then they may in fact try our leaders under some from of Sharia law. I think we ought to at least make them win first though before we go awarding them the spoils of war. We don’t need to be in the torture business. If this has been the case then stop, but do so without surrendering.
You’re thinking of Henry Fonda in “12 Angry men”.
There is no comparison to the “torture” techniques we used on captured terrorists and what the Japanese did to both military and civilian captives. The Germans were put on trial for violations of the Geneva Convention and what we today refer to as “crimes against humanity” relating to the establishment of the concentration/extermination camps and the implementation of the “final solution”. If you read the detailed, documented atrocities of the Japanese and Germans during WWII it would curl your toes. What we have done to these terrorists equates to taking them to Disney World in comparison to the Japanese and Germans. Come to think of it, the North Koreans and Chinese don’t exactly play fair either. That said, I’m no fan of “torture” but there may be times that something more severe that turning up the volume on the radio is okay.
Well, if they go after Bush and Cheney, then they should go after every Senator and Congressman who were briefed, passed legislation and funded these programs. Nancy Pelosi even wanted stronger methods used. They are not without guilt. Its just a shame that 9-11 is now being used as a political tool. How quickly we have forgotten these fews years later and now have puffed ourselves up. Those familys who lost loved ones haven’t forgotten. This will divide this Country and nothing good will come out of it.
What needs to happen is the truth about the 9/11 catastrophe to come out. It would preclude grown men talking about “…bad guys”,”…our enemies”,”he kept us safe..blah, blah, blah…”. Anyone with a brain in their head should realize that many things are going on and being said because people are buying the false government account of that day. Let the truth about what really occurred and who was in reality a part of the event come out and everyone will change their tune.
I would like to see all the people hollering for torture to be waterboarded or tortured themselves-(including tough girls like Laura Ingraham) and see how they like it. I bet they will agree then that it is torture and wrong. There was no information to get regarding 9/11 because those people only know or did what they were told by the true masterminds.
Instead of OBOZO being so self-righteous- he could have pushed for impeachment/investigations, etc. the entire time he was running to be king of the world. He did nothing. Now, how about including himselg in the investigations/war crimes prosecutions as he is the new war criminal with his actions in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and his continued crimes in remaining in Iraq.
Had democrats done the right thing when they took over congress, we would not even need to be having this conversation now. They have no one to blame but themselves. And by the way, MOVE-ON is not far left as they compromised ANY right to be considered vialble when they began to support sleazy politicians. I asked to be removed from their list when they came out for the charlatan Obama.
Thanks for reminding me. I meant to say something about this above. Bush declared war. Congress voted on it. Agree with the war or not it was declared and voted on. Obama is sending assassin drones into Pakistan. Pakistan is a sovereign nation. We are not at war with Pakistan and have not declared a war with Pakistan. What is the legality of that on the world stage? This is why people who live in glass houses don’t or shouldn’t throw rocks at each other.
I have been thinking along the same lines. Is it right to continue these drone attacks, and how many innocents have been killed? What is the difference between torture and killing? Oh, but don’t look at the man behind the curtain. Obarky doesn’t have the knowledge or experience to have the job as President. That is becoming quite clear.
The President cannot declare war. Only Congress can declare war. Bush got authority to use military force, which is very different from a declaration of war.
…even James Bond, Sean Connery learned that!
Never Say Never Again
All this post proves is that there is literally NOTHING Barack Obama could do that would please No Quarter. Whether he moves left, right, up, down, diagonal, NQ will be right there to stick it to him. It’s an admirable consistency, if nothing else.
Good thing WE are “consistent” since the Stoner in Chief really isn’t.
George W. Bush was also really consistent. Maybe consistency isn’t the paramount virtue to look for in a chief executive.
And someone who reneges on just about all his campaign promises isn’t something we are looking for either.
He needs to govern from his conscience and quit taking polls. Here he is now, being that which he probably dreamed about being his whole adult life… and he is going to let pollsters dictate his actions? Screw that… be the President.
The man doesn’t have a conscience so how could he govern from one?
Everyone is assuming that if a terror atack happens or is looming Obama would need to decided whether or not to approve torture techniques or not to prevent an attack or more attacks, but I do not believe that he would stop anything. Obama would be pleased if we are attacked. He and Jeremiah Wright would preach about “Chickens coming home to roost”. Don’t agree with me? Who is the man we have witnessed for over a year all this hatred of America and Americans? G20, anyone? Chavez? Obama hates America. I didn’t vote for him because I know this (one of many reasons to vote against). There is no way this man will protect America. He puts our interests last in the world. To him, it is our punishment for being evil Americans and he will watch an attack happen and he will revel in it and the photo ops he has afterward so he can flash his cheshire cat smile and offer “hope”.
Really? This proves you never pay attention to NQ.
Really? I must have missed all those times NQ was praising the president.
We don`t praise holograms.
?????
.
LOL Harp.
Well, Gerald, you missed last week when the Fraud was given credit for what, IMO, he didn’t deserve. The Somalia situation.
Ah, I see. So now the rule is that the commander-in-chief doesn’t get credit for operations he/she orders. Got it.
1) IF he would have done that, he would just be doing the job that he was hired to do, that we pay him to do.
2) That’s not what happened, and you can go to the thread from last week and do your own digging about what others think and have been told. I am not debating with a troll all day.
I didn’t say it was out of his job description. People get credit for doing their job well all the time.
I imagine pushing a falsehood like that would be pretty draining.
I guess you missed the posts about the Somalie pirates then because Larry Johnson gave Obama full credit for handling the matter exactly right.
You know what, you’re right: Larry’s posts on the Somali situation are an exception. THE Exception.
Noted.
But here we have Susan explaining first that: a) she’s against torture and pro-punishment of the torturers; b) Obama is now open to prosecution of those who developed the torture regime; c) this change for some reason bothers Susan.
You can see how one might find that confusing. You guys can’t take yes for an answer.
I don’t consider torture acceptable but I differ with many here about what constitutes it.
Releasing info about the techniques was a bad move for our national security.
Investigating/prosecuting officials will only undermine our intelligence/military officials’ determination and confidence in their endeavors. If the line keeps moving no one will have the confidence to act at all (lots like the bank bailout situation right now).
Do you consider slamming someone’s head against a wall repeatedly to be torture?
Against a flexible wall that absorbs the force such that the brain is not reverberating within the skull, nope.
I have nothing to add to that. Your statement speaks for itself.
you betcha!
Yes, I do. So PLEASE stop torturing yourself, stop drinking the Koolaid and get out more.
I wasn’t asking you Linda, but I am glad to hear that you believe slamming someone’s head against a wall is in fact torture.
There you go, leaving out material facts again. sigh.
What do you expect from a troll. Don’t feed them and they vanish.
You’re right.
What would you do to protect America from these terrorists attacking and torturing and killing all of us? So far, you lefties have cried about USA “torturing” enemies bent on killing any of us they can via any means they can, so what do you plan to stop them? Just wondering.
Silly you. He doesn’t do much to be praised of. IS that your criteria for NQ, that they must PRAISE your One to be worthy/ roflmao.
That says it in a nut shell….LITERALLY. lol
But, the couple of good things Barry actually did, he was recognized for.
But hey thanks for stopping by to give us a laugh.
Which Larry Johnson has done twice in the past week alone. But leave it to you to only look for that which validates your POV on NoQuarter. And no, i won’t look up the articles for you. Just click on Larry Johnson’s name at the top of an article, and you’ll find a list of all of his stories.
Hi Susan,
Like I already said in my comment at 13:53:58, I should have excepted Larry’s statements on the Somali pirates. That’s the only exception I’ve ever seen on this site, Susan–ever–to the rule that all NQ is about is attacking Barack Obama.
You said yourself that you are against torture, and pro-punishment of the torturers. Yesterday, Obama said he was open to prosecution of the developers of our torture regime. Today, you say this stance bothers you.
I’m afraid you can’t take yes for answer.
Youre spamming this thread. Is that your assignment for the day? Is it minimum wage? I think I’ll put you on moderation for a while until you cool your jets and don’t dominate the entire discussion.
If EVERYTHING Barack Obama does is motivated by money and politics, then you bet your ass he will be called out on it.
Ger-old:
There are lots of things That One could do to please me, he just hasn’t done any yet. He’s just OBush.
Stop the lovefest!
gerald, take a hike and take your attitude with you.
Well, clearly, whoever the F**k is “running the White House” (Pelosi the Pig, Ballet Rahm, George “I hate America” Soros) isn’t doing much of a job. LMAO at the Fraud’s most current ratings. Buh Bye Fraud!
Wednesday, April 22, 2009
Obama numbers are dismal
According to a new Rasmussen poll released today -
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
Obama’s approval rating is only at 54%, while his disapproval rating is 46%. Lets remember, only 53% of America voted for Obama, 47% of America voted for McCain or third party candidates. His approval ratings are dropping every week, the tea parties have apparently added extra disapproval to his numbers. Considering a majority of Americans are against almost every single one of his positions, he is lucky to still have a positive approval number.
And as I said a few weeks ago, if his approval numbers continue to slide like this - he could be close to George Bush’s approval/disapproval numbers by July 4th of this year.
Great news!
Why should lower poll #s matter? According to NQ, Obama shouldn’t be paying attention to poll #s at all!
They only count when you guys are doctoring them and lying about his numbers, right? He sucks and he’s going down big time. Yippieeeeeee….
Right, but when you get your hands on one measly Rasmussen poll, which has consistently polled at the bottom end of the aggregate for the duration of Obama’s candidacy and presidency, suddenly it means Obama’s “going down big time”.
As far as I’m concerned, it’s not the polls or the personalities that matter–it’s the policies. If Obama continues to enact policies I support, I will support him. If he doesn’t, he will lose my support. That’s how politics works. It’s about moving policies in one direction or another, not about some permanent grudge-fixation.
Gerald, the fact that you support any of the Fraud’s policies is a little silly IMO. Good luck with that….
Gerald changes his name as often as 0bama changes his mind. Enuf said.
Well, since he’s already campaigning for 2012 and since that’s the only job he’s ever had any experience with, he better pay attention to the polls. Don’t worry, his machine behind the scene will do it for him and then load up the TOTUS so he knows how to spin this for ratings.
Well Guess who’s on TV..”AGAIN..”..??
Wed..April 22..2009…breaking News…Obama Giving speech on Oil and economic transformation..and energy efficiency…wonder if he took Air force one up to IOWA ..at$$$$$$$$$$ 75000 dollars an hour to fly for this
Gig…and “Energy Converstion “Speech…??
Oh well…He thinks flying around in Air Force one is “KOOL”..and by Traveling (Hmmm..thats a Communist term too) He..”Hero Obama.”.gets Saluted and pampered alot more than if he was Back in the White house acting presidential…
So..Since he is never there…Who is in Charge of the White House..??
Napolitano’s doing a bang up job.
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/story.html?id=1520295
Can someone please tell us how U. S. Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano got her job? She appears to be about as knowledgeable about border issues as a late-night radio call-in yahoo.
In an interview broadcast Monday on the CBC, Ms. Napolitano attempted to justify her call for stricter border security on the premise that “suspected or known terrorists” have entered the U. S. across the Canadian border, including the perpetrators of the 9/11 attack.
All the 9/11 terrorists, of course, entered the United States directly from overseas. The notion that some arrived via Canada is a myth that briefly popped up in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, and was then quickly debunked.
Informed of her error, Ms. Napolitano blustered: “I can’t talk to that. I can talk about the future. And here’s the future. The future is we have borders.”
Just what does that mean, exactly?
Just a few weeks ago, Ms. Napolitano equated Canada’s border to Mexico’s, suggesting they deserved the same treatment. Mexico is engulfed in a drug war that left more than 5,000 dead last year, and which is spawning a spillover kidnapping epidemic in Arizona. So many Mexicans enter the United States illegally that a multi-billion-dollar barrier has been built from Texas to California to keep them out.
In Canada, on the other hand, the main problem is congestion resulting from cross-border trade. Not quite the same thing, is it?
I think they should immediately get rid of her. How DARE she call our returning veterans potential terrorists? She’s disgusting. She also doesn’t think that illegal aliens are, well, illegal. WTF is the matter with this nut?
NOT to be Outdone..The Obama Administration is making sure the Far left wing side of the Democrat Party is well represented by its Own Unqualified and rather Homely Versions of JANET RENO.. like
NAPOLITANO..to get back in the Grove and go after those “Right Wing Tea Bagging Terrorist”..
Its always the “MESSAGE.”.no matter how misguided the Messenger is..or if they go “BOW WOW..”
She seems to be a ringer. You know. The woman they hire to make the rest of us look bad?
that’s awfully sexist.
Oh Sure…verything you say now days can be labeled..Sexist..racist..Extremist..Predudice..
Janet reno WAS Homely (IS) and had a Political Attitude and Agenda that showed a HIGH Leel of Biase and Discrimination in my Opinion..
Remarking about Her Looks and Politics does NOT make Me a sexist..
I have Nothing against Sex..
or being homely…
and since when are Candians shooting at Us Border Guards?
Has the Sec for HLS been to some classified briefing where she was told the Geese are coming?
Remarking about her politics is not sexist but remarking about her looks is. It is women who are always judged about our looks, if we are ladylike and if we are not than we must be bitches or our voice must be a cackle.
How many times have dick cheney been ridiculed for his looks, how many times have male politicians who campaigned for presidency been ridiculed for their looks or their voice.
yep; nobody gives a flying flip what a man looks like, but the first topic of conversation regarding any woman is always something about her presumed physical attractiveness.
it doesn’t matter whether she is a doctor, a lawyer, a truck driver, or secretary of state, every joe sixpack thinks that his opinion on her physical attractiveness really really matters.
Absolutely. This is completely sexist. How many “homely” male politicians are out there and we never hear a word about their appearance — we do not grade them, and degrade them, in the same way.
Grrrrr..back to all that Meowing…
I said “Homely”..as in Plain..NOT ‘Ugly.”.and I never even came close to suggesting Women being” Bitches that Cackle “..
Janet Reno is Homely..and her policys including the shooting a Mother holding her baby at Ruby ridge because Janet Reno considered right wingers and survivalists the real enemys of America..
Sure…some are very dangerous…like the Mexican and African American gangs are..
I remember several political cartoon making Fun of George Bush and Dick Cheneys looks and Barack Obamas big ears….
BTW..I also consider Barney Frank Homely..and as a democrat I am sometimes embarrassed by Pelosi..
BTW #2..I was a Hillary Clinton delegate..
BTW #3..In spite some people going over the Top..I am still a strong PUMA~ Supporter..
Grrrr…
Napolitano was wrong about the 9/11 terrorists, but Ahmed Ressam was captured coming from Canada to the State of Washington on December 14, 1999, in furtherance of a plot set for New Years against the airport in Los Angeles.
The George Soros Agenda was foretold in this 1934 cartoon.
Gerald Webb -
Do what I did, and just stop trying. You will never change the minds of people here, who take every opportunity to find fault with Obama. Hillary Clinton–who many here admire and deeply respect and who some here think can do no wrong–just sat up in front of Congress and said that Obama’s strategy of engaging our friends, be it Iran or Chavez or Cuba, is the right approach. Think anyone here will ever make note of that? Nope. think you can ever convince them that because Hillary herself is on board with the approach, maybe people here should be a little more rational in assessing Obama? Nope.
think this comment will ever see the light of day in this thread? Unlikely, given the fact that whoever moderates consistently screens my comments out (even though they are not profane — they are just not anti-Obama, and thus don’t get posted).
But in the end, Gerald, you are just giving yourself a headache. Like banging your head repeatedly against a flexible wall. Regular posters at NQ are beyond reason for the most part (Obama’s authorizing SEALs to take out the pirates is the sole exception to the consistently negative coverage I have seen here since January of the primary season).
Lost causes abound.
Troll, I’m just curious…If you don’t like our opinions, then go to The Daily Kook or Huffpoop. Surely they will welcome your deluded fantasies about the Stoner in Chief, right? Why would you want to change our minds? That’s not your place and we are happy with our DOCUMENTED reasons not support the most dangerous nut in the history of American politics. Since you’re so obsessed with polls, maybe you can educate yourself an notice that we’re not alone here at NQ in our disdain for the Fraud.
PS they don’t moderate comments to weed out the pro-Obama ones. You’re a liar and that’s low life thing to say. The people here are open to all thoughts. The problem with you trolls is that for the most part it’s all BS and not founded on anything real.
Kind of says a lot when you think about it doesn’t it? Why indeed? It’s one thing to have an opinion, participate openly or to vent anger etc. But, to come on a public forum with an agenda to change minds of the participants… that would be frustrating now wouldn’t it? If that is a job description, then that job must suck.
Exactly! Most people go to blogs to seek out like minded people, despite varying POVs. There’s something in common between the bloggers who consistently interact with each other. So, anyone coming here with the intent of “changing our minds,” is being paid to do it, or they need to get out more.
What I never understood, from day one of the Obama disaster, is why on earth the sycophants around him think that sending trolls into the blogosphere has any affect on us, other than revulsion.
Obama’s strategy of engaging our friends, be it Iran or Chavez or Cuba, is the right approach
HUH??? Iran is our friend?
Gerald Webb, relying on comments from the S of S that tend to support the tack of BO, as a means to justify your support of BO’s policies, misses this point. Candidate HRC did not support these policies, in principle. What you are lauding in her could be construed as her being a good soldier, and not in her changing her mind.
Do you have an opinion as to why BO posted a photocopy of that COLB indicating he was born in HI - recall, he posted on “Fight the Smears” this proved he was a “native born citizen” - when under HI law, a foreign birth could be registered in HI, if an adult swore the parent was a resident of HI for one year before such foreign birth?
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/hawnbirth.html
jbjd, “Candidate” Hillary said she would put an emphasis on diplomacy and that is what she is doing. She is working to secure the release of a reporter held prisoner in Iran, two in China and one in Cuba. She is working to restore the six party talks with North Korea and is speaking to all countries about Women’s rights and Human rights. She isn’t responsible for Obama’s gaffs. May I ask you who you would choose as SoS? It was Condi Rice and Bush who made the mistake of pushing for democratic elections in Palestine which resulted in Hamas winning. Condi Rice was SoS when North Korea tested it’s first nuclear weapon. It was Colin Powell who sat before the UN and repeated the lies which he later called “misinformation”. Hillary made a promise in her speech after the last primary: She said she would have our backs and she is in a position right now to do just that. Every SoS defers to the president in some things out of necessity and she isn’t a free agent all the time, but she is keeping her promise.
Isn’t if funny that Obots who do not question a thing Obama does, but tries to always makes exuceses for his poor decisions and actions, come here to complain that we are praising their empty Symbol?
I do agree, they are going to need much time to see the error of their ways and until then, they are a lost cause.
Remember, drink plenty of water after you stop drinking the Koolaid to flush out the toxins. You’ll be feeling better soon and joining the rest of us in the Reality world soon again.
oops,typos
and…should have been NOT praising. lol
Awwww they are going to have one big fat “Hopeover” when they wake the F up.
http://atlas.victimofcapitalism.com/x/vq/24
Here’s a video that explains why Obama supporters do not question what he does. All supporters and non-supporters should watch it to understand the long-term planning that has brought us to this point.
and do not foget to stir in supercharged behavorialism (M. Grunwald, 4.21.09 - How Obama is Using the Science of Change“)
Creepy and very scary
Creepy is the understatement of our lifetimes.
Yeah, behavioralists are creepy but the good news? They’re also wrong. Behavioralism cannot be sustained as a political philosophy, which is not to say that they can’t cause all manner of despicable trouble though, if they really get their claws dug in.
Yes, which is why anybody with some kind of firmly rooted value and belief system was immune from the koolaid. The flaky follower types were most susceptible. But, yes it does need boosters to work right as it does wear off. That is where the media comes in.
You know, I don’t know the answer to this torture issue either. But I do know what I saw on 9/11. I didn’t like Bush’s pollicies because of the moral issue, biut if millions of citizens lives were at stake, I honestly don’t see where we would draw the line. What I do see is alot of flip-flopping by our President. Doesn’t he yet realize that when he speaks, alot of wheels are set in motion. He doesn’t seem to really think before he shoots his mouth off. There’s alot of people down the line to carry out policy. They must be just as confused as I am trying to follow what the President wants.
O has no clue his words mean something. For example every time he speaks the market goes down.
i heard on tv last nite that 0bama signed into legislation a bill to finance his “volunteer army”. i find this very scary. sounds too much like the “brown shirts”in germany. what does he need a private army for? to silence dissent by americans? why is no one talking about or questioning this? he seems to be in a big hurry to push all his agendas thru before too many more poeple catch on to him. remember he said they would be as well armed and funded as the army. WTF????
Yes, the GIVE Act was signed. He and Ballet Rahm talked about their “civilian army” with great glee from the beginning. Heil Fraudbama. I’d love to see them try to indoctrinate any of the kids in my family. Yet another disgrace to America from the Moonbats.
Susan, you’re on top of your game–great article! Just wanted to say thanks for all your time & hard work!
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7402099&page=1
Torture - for changing the supplies. The blog post has comments saying a lawyer who handled florida recount for Bush is handling the case for the sheikh.
That article made me ill
Me too. Though I think its important to point out that the U.S. interrogation techniques are categorically NOTHING like this horrendous disregard for life and limb. I have no problem calling this behavior torture.
There’s no doubt that George Soros is a very creepy character, not to be trusted. And yet the press fawns all over him. I’ve seen multiple interviews on Charlie Rose and other “respected” venues. But did anyone catch his comment a few weeks ago about how he was having a fine, profitable time during the economic crisis? He’s made billions of dollars off the financial misfortune of others.
He looked like the cat who swallowed the canary.
I’d like to know what and where Zbigniew Brzezinski is, a “silent” foreign relations advisor to 0bama. He shared the same ill-fated position [although far more public] with Jimmy Carter.
There are a lot of very dark cards being played in this hand. Doesn’t give me a good feeling.
Susan. I don’t think Slick57-Obama muddled anything. I think this is a planned distraction. We should be looking at executive actions and bills flying through that he does not want us to look at. There is something, unrelated to this, being slipped through under all this hoop-la-la.
Agreed, Eastan!
Obama’s governance is based on the same sleight-of-hand maneuvers and machinations that got him into office.
While we, the populace, are being distracted by the profferred issues du jour, Obama and his allies are busy behind the scenes, making Machiavelli and Alinsky proud.
And don’t forget Geithner over at the Treasury…follow the money (and power shift), no?
BO 2009 Executive Orders
I wonder how many are classified ones and are not listed.
Teak-
your link goes to the Nat’l Archives but to a file not found error message, what did you see there?
oops sorry.
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2009-obama.html
This one Executive Order 13491 of January 22, 2009, revoking Executive Order 13440 of July 20, 2007, is on the far side of ironic considering what the last few utterances of the One has brought.
By irony, do you mean his recent speech at the CIA?
Yes and the back peddling he had to do when MoveBack.org began nipping at his heels.
Yes, there was that. He’s all over the map almost all of the time. Someone earlier today made the point that pragmatism unguided by principle flounders. I thought that an astute point.
True that , except in my humble opinion, he possesses neither pragmatism or principles.
He can stand there and say it he is not in it for the politics….if a pol says that, I have some Tarp funds for them.
Agreed. The only pragmatism he seems to understand is pay to play, hence the schizoid policy reversals.
The democrats had control of Congress from 2006 to the present date. That means that they gave Bush/Cheney permission to do everything they did. They themselves could also implicated. Did the dems not think of this scenario? Is Obama so arrogant, stupid or both?
I heard something on Morning Joe this morning about four Democratic Congress members being at a top secret meeting in 2002 regarding the use of waterboarding on terrorist suspects, and that two of them asked if that was all we were doing to get information. One was Pelosi, another Rockefeller, didn’t hear the rest, think it might be in the NYT. Point being that the Democrats are not blameless in all of this, and the WH had better be very careful about casting a net that catches more kinds of fish than they expect. Or maybe that “collateral damage” is what they’re counting on to rid Obama of Pelosi and her constant plays for power. It’s really difficult to get to base motivation with these guys, as just when I think they can’t get any more devious, they do.
Peter Hoekstra: Congress knew about the interrogations. Their hypocrisy knows no bounds. Hearings? I say Bring It On. Release All Memos.
The country’s in the best of hands.
I love the “but they were only following orders and shouldn’t be tried” line.
Didn’t that apply at Neuremburg (sp) too?
It shames me as an American that we have done these heinous acts. Surely, we are smart enough and clever enough to extract information without having to resort to torture.
Also, the Cheney crew used the torture to acquire phony info to gin up the connection between al Qaeda and Iraq to get us in that war… pure propaganda.
These guys need to be prosecuted. They are criminals in the 1st degree.
[...] For more from Bob Baer, see the CNN interview below the fold in my earlier piece, “Who’s Running the White House? [Updates].” [...]
I want public hearings, and accountability for the torture memos, which led to the criminal violations of US law, and international treaties. I don’t give a rats’ ass about whether or not Al-Qaeda can watch them; or whether or not they download documents from the WH web site. That is the point: We are supposed to hold to a higher moral ground than Al-Qaeda. By becoming Al-Qaeda, they know, and we know, that we have lost that high moral ground, which gives us the right to call them evil. Evil is, as Evil does. Torture is evil. When we do it; we are evil.
And, if a Texas Sheriff was prosecuted by the DOJ and convicted of waterboarding in 1983 by a jury, then the authors of the torture memos, and the WH officials who designed the torture program, and also attempted to hide the memos which DISSENTED from that torture program, then it was a deliberate conspiracy to violate US law, and international treaties. If we do not prosecute, then we are complicit in those criminal and moral violations.
The question is: Do we or do we not adhere to the rule of law in the United States? We must publicly answer to that question.
DOJ Prosecuted Texas Sheriff in 1983 For Waterboarding Prisoners
Written by Jason Leopold
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 21:47
By Jason Leopold
http://www.pubrecord.org/torture/854-doj-prosecuted-texas-sheriff-in-1983-for-waterboarding-prisoners.html
The President and other constitutional officers take the following oath of office:
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
This is an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. The oath places preservation, protection and defense of the Constitution above any duty to the country itself or the scared and whiney citizens of this country. We are supposed to be a county of laws, and our legal precedents have already held on several occasions that waterboarding constitutes illegal torture; end of story. The ends don’t and can’t constitutionally justify the means.
¿Quién es Gerald Webb? Does he work for the Obama entourage? He is all about protecting the war criminal Obama no matter what idiocy or ridiculousness he spouts. Mr. Obama has no loyaly to the USA or the citizens here and I cannot figure out why he wanted the job-other than the information in “The Obama Deception”. I wish he would just get tired of the position and resign. Although at this point, there is enough to impeach him-
warehouse553 you are so right- democrats were in control for 2 years. They did nothing but go along.
I do not like politicians. The only group as morally bankrupt and sleazy as them are educational policy makers-people supposed to be concerned about educating the youth.
gerald webb is a tool for the obots. yawn, kinda of boring isn’t he?