Comments on: [Update] Taliban Encroachment in Pakistan Grows at Terrifying Pace: What Does the U.S. Do? http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/ Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:38:09 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: rw http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194790 rw Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:24:20 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194790 You make a number of different valid points. But I was only addressing the point of the Iraq war on the Afghan/Pakistan issue. My point was that Islamic fundamentalism (NOT ISLAM) would still be a major issue there whether there had been an invasion of Iraq or not. Islamic fundamentalism has a long history and it basically 1. rejects the western value sys. and capitalism 2. many Islamic org. provide for their people what the state does not: education, health, food (much like the communist org.in Europe prior to the rise in fascism) 3. Islamic fundamentalists were fighting the USSR in Afgh. before the US came in to train, arm and "Arabicize" them - they get energize to fight whomever threatens their way of thinking. It's like Hillary Clinton said, you can't go in and pull out, go in and pull out...go in and put the entire UN contingency nations to work on nation building and stay until it is done. For courses read many books on the issue and the conclusion I came to is that there are many opinions as to why Islamic fundamentalism rises and ebbs but doesn't disappear and there are equally as many opinions on what to do about it. And all this is just my opinion. You make a number of different valid points. But I was only addressing the point of the Iraq war on the Afghan/Pakistan issue.

My point was that Islamic fundamentalism (NOT ISLAM) would still be a major issue there whether there had been an invasion of Iraq or not. Islamic fundamentalism has a long history and it basically 1. rejects the western value sys. and capitalism 2. many Islamic org. provide for their people what the state does not: education, health, food (much like the communist org.in Europe prior to the rise in fascism) 3. Islamic fundamentalists were fighting the USSR in Afgh. before the US came in to train, arm and “Arabicize” them – they get energize to fight whomever threatens their way of thinking. It’s like Hillary Clinton said, you can’t go in and pull out, go in and pull out…go in and put the entire UN contingency nations to work on nation building and stay until it is done.

For courses read many books on the issue and the conclusion I came to is that there are many opinions as to why Islamic fundamentalism rises and ebbs but doesn’t disappear and there are equally as many opinions on what to do about it. And all this is just my opinion.

]]> By: andrew 191 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194526 andrew 191 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 06:48:32 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194526 The communists eventually won because they knew they could depend on their stateside allies like Jane Fonda, and people like YOU Elise, to undermine our efforts. You should be proud of the killing fields, you helped to create them. The communists eventually won because they knew they could depend on their stateside allies like Jane Fonda, and people like YOU Elise, to undermine our efforts. You should be proud of the killing fields, you helped to create them.

]]> By: elise http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194525 elise Fri, 24 Apr 2009 06:46:45 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194525 Sorry rw and teak. It was rw who suggested China as part of the solution. Sorry rw and teak. It was rw who suggested China as part of the solution.

]]> By: elise http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194517 elise Fri, 24 Apr 2009 06:32:38 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194517 That worked out well, didn't it, Hg? It gave Pol Pot all the opportunity he needed to begin a reign of terror and there is no South Vietnam now. That worked out well, didn’t it, Hg? It gave Pol Pot all the opportunity he needed to begin a reign of terror and there is no South Vietnam now.

]]> By: elise http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194514 elise Fri, 24 Apr 2009 06:27:25 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194514 There are no moderate Taliban, cynic. They are by definition extremists. A couple of years before 9/11, they destroyed a two thousand year Buddha. They had public executions of women and men in soccer stadiums and refused to allow little girls an education. There has to be an answer short of force because that won't work either, but making nice with them isn't going to work. Our allies and even those who aren't our friends, but realize how desperate this situation is, have to isolate them, cut off their income from poppy, block the flow of arms. They have to know there is no help anywhere. There are no moderate Taliban, cynic. They are by definition extremists. A couple of years before 9/11, they destroyed a two thousand year Buddha. They had public executions of women and men in soccer stadiums and refused to allow little girls an education. There has to be an answer short of force because that won’t work either, but making nice with them isn’t going to work. Our allies and even those who aren’t our friends, but realize how desperate this situation is, have to isolate them, cut off their income from poppy, block the flow of arms. They have to know there is no help anywhere.

]]> By: elise http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194503 elise Fri, 24 Apr 2009 06:09:31 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194503 I disagree rw. Actions have consequences and Arab countries don't trust our intentions in the ME. When we invaded Iraq based on trumped up intelligence and given the military power of the US, the concern and anger increased. In the process, Bush squandered a lot of good will which existed post 9/11. It's also stretched the military and has hurt our economy. But, as Susan said, we are there and someone has to have some common sense about where to go from here and it's clear it won't be Obama. Our fight isn't about Islam and the radical elements, but more about our ME policy IMO. I disagree rw. Actions have consequences and Arab countries don’t trust our intentions in the ME. When we invaded Iraq based on trumped up intelligence and given the military power of the US, the concern and anger increased. In the process, Bush squandered a lot of good will which existed post 9/11. It’s also stretched the military and has hurt our economy. But, as Susan said, we are there and someone has to have some common sense about where to go from here and it’s clear it won’t be Obama. Our fight isn’t about Islam and the radical elements, but more about our ME policy IMO.

]]> By: TeakwoodKite http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194502 TeakwoodKite Fri, 24 Apr 2009 06:08:44 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194502 <em>Will Taliban come over to us–NO.</em> I said non Taliban. In that as PM317 said up thread, Pakistan has to solve this not us. And not to say we can't "assist". With elements of the ISI aligned with the Taliban, the Pak Military has to cover its flanks. Again what difference does where a nuke comes from? or if one is more advanced than another? As for tribal control, it is a religious strata. Either way, nukes can screw with your day. The taliban maybe like an ebola virus, the last thing anyone needs are broken arrows. Will Taliban come over to us–NO.

I said non Taliban. In that as PM317 said up thread, Pakistan has to solve this not us. And not to say we can’t “assist”.

With elements of the ISI aligned with the Taliban, the Pak Military has to cover its flanks.

Again what difference does where a nuke comes from? or if one is more advanced than another?

As for tribal control, it is a religious strata. Either way, nukes can screw with your day.

The taliban maybe like an ebola virus, the last thing anyone needs are broken arrows.

]]> By: elise http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194472 elise Fri, 24 Apr 2009 05:13:11 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194472 It would be easier if the Pakistani government would ask for help securing the nukes, but even that would probably mean more resistance from the Taliban and create a situation where the tribal leaders would be easier to enlist in their cause. Why not call on NATO or the UN to participate so we aren't alone in the fight. Every country in the area and in Europe have a stake in this because it is truly dangerous. Teak is right about China I think. Their help is so important. And Hillary was right and Obama was wrong. His lack of understanding makes me more grateful she is SoS. This is really scary situation. I've always wondered why the US gave tacit permission to India and their nuclear program? If I remember, last year, Bush agreed to sell fighter planes to Saudi Arabia which could conceivably be used against US bases in the area. It's Russian Roulette. It would be easier if the Pakistani government would ask for help securing the nukes, but even that would probably mean more resistance from the Taliban and create a situation where the tribal leaders would be easier to enlist in their cause. Why not call on NATO or the UN to participate so we aren’t alone in the fight. Every country in the area and in Europe have a stake in this because it is truly dangerous. Teak is right about China I think. Their help is so important. And Hillary was right and Obama was wrong. His lack of understanding makes me more grateful she is SoS. This is really scary situation. I’ve always wondered why the US gave tacit permission to India and their nuclear program? If I remember, last year, Bush agreed to sell fighter planes to Saudi Arabia which could conceivably be used against US bases in the area. It’s Russian Roulette.

]]> By: NoBamaNoWay http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194410 NoBamaNoWay Fri, 24 Apr 2009 03:51:15 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194410 you may be right. you may be right.

]]> By: Ulysses S. Moss http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194364 Ulysses S. Moss Fri, 24 Apr 2009 02:34:58 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194364 We got in this mess with Pakistan because of the self righteous left who wanted the strong man Musharref replaced. Now you have a limp wrist reformer that's capitualting state power to the Taliban and soon they will control the nukes Alqueda and nukes controlling Pakistan all because of a false morality that right makes good. How we miss Mushareff now! We got in this mess with Pakistan because of the self righteous left who wanted the strong man Musharref replaced. Now you have a limp wrist reformer that’s capitualting state power to the Taliban and soon they will control the nukes
Alqueda and nukes controlling Pakistan all because of a false morality that right makes good.

How we miss Mushareff now!

]]> By: OxyCon http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194360 OxyCon Fri, 24 Apr 2009 02:28:07 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194360 Sometimes I get a crazy thought that Obama really is the Manchurian Candidate, weakening us and leaving us vulnerable from the inside. He "vacationed" for a summer in Pakistan while he was in college. I'd really like to know what he was doing there, especially since the only reason why college age males go to Pakistan is to become radicalized, murderous Muslims. Sometimes I get a crazy thought that Obama really is the Manchurian Candidate, weakening us and leaving us vulnerable from the inside.

He “vacationed” for a summer in Pakistan while he was in college. I’d really like to know what he was doing there, especially since the only reason why college age males go to Pakistan is to become radicalized, murderous Muslims.

]]> By: evolve and learn http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194352 evolve and learn Fri, 24 Apr 2009 02:07:25 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194352 This is scary stuff! This is scary stuff!

]]> By: tek http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194328 tek Fri, 24 Apr 2009 01:28:15 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194328 one of his kumbaya speeches, LOL!! I'm sure that would solve everything. REally, the more you read the news, the more it looks like vicious gangs are taking over the world. one of his kumbaya speeches, LOL!! I’m sure that would solve everything.

REally, the more you read the news, the more it looks like vicious gangs are taking over the world.

]]> By: John Smith http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194322 John Smith Fri, 24 Apr 2009 01:19:17 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194322 Pakistan supported the Taliban in Afghanistan for years and have mostly ignored them along the Afghanistan and Pakistani boarder. So this was something that they created in one way or an other. However, this will be a problem for China and India to resolve. We could provide them with some logistical support. I am bit tiered of the world blaming US for everything so have them try to get along with out us for a change and lets see how that will work out. Pakistan supported the Taliban in Afghanistan for years and have mostly ignored them along the Afghanistan and Pakistani boarder. So this was something that they created in one way or an other. However, this will be a problem for China and India to resolve. We could provide them with some logistical support. I am bit tiered of the world blaming US for everything so have them try to get along with out us for a change and lets see how that will work out.

]]> By: Docelder http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/23/taliban-encroachment-in-pakistan-grows-at-terrifying-pace-what-does-the-us-do/#comment-1194285 Docelder Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:13:21 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22145#comment-1194285 If it were a board game it could be fun. Seeing it's reality, you just hope that the people in charge will do the right things at the right time and for the right reasons. Otherwise, it is not likely to go well at all. Yes, what a mess. If it were a board game it could be fun. Seeing it’s reality, you just hope that the people in charge will do the right things at the right time and for the right reasons. Otherwise, it is not likely to go well at all. Yes, what a mess.

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