‘Action Memo’ For Obama: Recommendations For Dealing With Torture
By Mel Goodman on April 28, 2009 at 6:30 AM in CIA, President Barack Obama, Torture
(bumped up from Monday)
To: The President of the United States
Fm: Melvin A. Goodman
Date: April 25, 2009
Subj: Recommendations for Dealing with the CIA on Issues of Torture and Abuse
President Obama is displaying ambivalence in handling the issue of torture and abuse. He clearly wants to do the right thing and, as a result, has put a stop to torture and closed down the CIA’s secret prisons where the worst abuses occurred. As a political leader with an extensive policy agenda, however, he wants to limit the investigation of the crimes that were committed in order to avoid a fractious political fight that could compromise his agenda.
The fact is that U.S. and international laws were broken and immoral actions were conducted. Moral and legal issues, unlike political ones, should not be compromised. Pursuing the proper moral course, as opposed to the political course, is central to the identity of President Obama as a leader and to the United States as a nation.
As a result, he must deal decisively with the Bush administration’s use of torture, secret prisons, and extraordinary renditions. The citizens of the United States, indeed the entire international community, know that war crimes were committed and that domestic and international laws were broken. Acts of sadism were committed—not only against those responsible for terrorist activities, but also against innocent victims. We need to establish that these activities were wrong and will never be repeated.
Only a serious high-level investigation can achieve these objectives. The investigation must focus on the senior officials of the Bush administration who were responsible for this descent into depravity, but there are individuals serving in high-level positions at the CIA, including the deputy director and the acting general counsel, who must be replaced if there is to be a convincing repudiation of the abuses of the past eight years. CIA officials sought protection from the Justice Department because they knew their actions violated international law (the Geneva Conventions and the Convention Against Torture); US law (which treats any breach of Geneva as a crime); and the 8th amendment to the Constitution.
President Obama has given senior CIA officials too much say with respect to releasing documents and limiting both congressional inquiry and the appointment of a special prosecutor. Senior CIA officials, past and present, are making a case that is patently false. They have told the president that an investigation will harm the CIA and that operations officers will be less willing to take risks in the future if some of them are held accountable now.
President Obama must understand that very few CIA officers were involved in these crimes; that the overwhelming majority of National Clandestine Service officers are professionals who understand the need to combat terrorism and are committed to supporting their president and defending their nation’s security. The overwhelming majority of NCS officers were not involved in the illegal activities and did not support them.
The current CIA leadership has argued falsely that foreign intelligence services will be less willing to share secrets with the United States if we pursue an investigation of these criminal activities. In fact, it was the Bush administration’s resort to torture, abuse, and secret prisons that led many nations to withhold information from the United States. CIA leaders believe that past investigations of CIA scandals, such as attempts to conduct political assassinations, had a chilling effect on CIA morale.
This is also untrue! CIA director William Colby’s cooperation in the 1970s with a Senate investigation of CIA assassination plots brought an end to these counterproductive actions, and CIA director John Deutch’s limits in the 1990s on the recruitment of Central American agents linked to death squads in their countries led to more effective recruitment.
Unfortunately, President Obama has made the journey toward an investigation more difficult by appointing former CIA veteran John Brennan as an intelligence adviser. Brennan was a major player in the era of cover-up at the CIA, serving as an executive assistant to CIA director George Tenet when the practices of detention and torture were introduced. He was a cheerleader in selling renditions and secret prisons to the media, and he lobbied against release of any torture memoranda. He has a personal interest in perpetuating the cover up of CIA’s rendition and detention practices.
Leon Panetta’s appointment as Director of Central Intelligence has proved a major disappointment. He has accepted the position being advanced by those Agency officers seeking to cover up the abuses of the past eight years. He has retained Steven Kappes as CIA deputy director, although Kappes was one of the ideological drivers for these practices. He has retained John Rizzo as acting general counsel, although Rizzo was a key figure in the Agency’s lobbying for Justice Department protection for its policies for nearly a decade; the Senate intelligence committee refused to confirm Rizzo as general counsel for that reason.
Panetta also has not named a new Inspector General for the CIA, raising the question of whether he shares the preference of former DCI Hayden and Deputy DCI Kappes for a weakened Office of Inspector General. Presumably, Hayden and Kappes prefer a weak OIG because that office is the only institution to have conducted a critical investigation of the Agency’s torture practices (2004); they surely seek to prevent any further such investigations by the IG. President Obama and Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) should be deeply concerned that there is not a statutory and independent individual serving as Inspector General of the CIA at this delicate juncture.
What Needs to Be Done?
The Obama administration must stop coddling those CIA leaders who continue to try to cover up Agency actions against the best interests of the Agency itself. It is time to uncover, understand, and reject the painful truths about CIA’s use of torture and abuse.
The release of the memoranda by the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel has begun the process of open disclosure, but President Obama must continue that process. He cannot expect the Senate and House intelligence committees to do a rigorous investigation because too many congressional leaders, including Jay Rockefeller, Nancy Pelosi, Peter Hoekstra, and Richard Shelby, knew about the practices of torture and abuse and did nothing to challenge, let alone prevent, them.
He must appoint a special prosecutor, perhaps John Dunlop, who has been investigating for months the CIA’s destruction of the torture tapes, which now appears to have a blatant act of obstructed justice. President Obama has ruled out the type of commission that investigated 9/11, but Pandora’s box has been opened and he will have to create or turn to some institution to confront the truths that have been unleashed. There is no perfect institution, but he must choose one—congressional, blue-ribbon, special investigator, Inspector General. Otherwise the president will continue to be hung up by an inability to confront the very real moral challenges posed by this country’s use of torture and abuse.
It is time to recognize that the policy of torture and abuse was only one of many steps taken by President Bush and Vice President Cheney to expand and abuse presidential powers. The Bush administration was responsible for warrantless eavesdropping in violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978; the Terrorist Surveillance Program in violation of the National Security Act of 1947; more presidential signing statements than all previous presidents signed in order to undermine the will of the people; and the outing of CIA clandestine operative Valerie Plame in violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982. The Obama administration may not have the time and energy to address all of these abuses, but the program of torture and abuse was by far the worst of these; it must be repudiated.
My next article will address the role of the Washington Post in helping the CIA spread these false views that are held by a small group within the National Clandestine Service and their spokesmen at the senior levels of the Agency.
Melvin A. Goodman, a regular contributor to The Public Record, is senior fellow at the Center for International Policy and adjunct professor of government at Johns Hopkins University. He spent more than 42 years in the U.S. Army, the Central Intelligence Agency, and the Department of Defense. His most recent book is “Failure of Intelligence: The Decline and Fall of the CIA.”
Originally published at PubRecord.org.
(Release: November 13)
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Thanks, I always appreciate your views, and have the highest regard for your arguments here. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. I hope–but don’t hold my breath–that the public will pressure this administration into an investigation of torture. But I think Obama will do everything he can to avoid it, because he doesn’t want to be held accountable in the future. And, that is a very sad statement on the state of our nation.
Andrew Bacevich in the Boston Globe:
Obama’s Sins of Omission
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/04/25/obamas_sins_of_omission?mode=PF
Wow, NQ has found a contributor who can channel Torquemada! I’m impressed.
It’s not necessary to channel anyone. There are plenty of people willing to testify that the practices do not work, are not necessary and seriously call into question the country’s moral authority.
Unless, of course, you get a hard on when conjuring up the Grand Inquisitor.
The whole subject is repulsive. The important thing is that the practices are stopped. I frankly think that pursuing “Truth Commissions” and/or public interrogations will turn into a political circus. Witch hunts tend to spin out of control, and the Dems do not have clean hands in this matter.
But, we shall see.
An excellent article in substance, but I fear the reality is a bit harder to achieve.
Many top Bush people knew of the prisons, torture,etc., but so did many in Congress who looked the other way. You can’t go after one unless you go after all.
And what about all of those who continually voted to fund the war and all it entailed? Do they get a free pass?
Then, who prosecutes the American people, who, after all, were willing to not only turn a blind eye to an unjust war but were willing to have anything done in the name of security?
And saying the American people didn’t know is a cop out. Information was all over the Internet and other sources if you took the time to look. Anyone with moderate computer skills and a functioning brain could have seen Bush wasn’t the brightest bulb on the planet, yet here we are. Same for Obama.
And let’s not forget, Obama was against the war while he wasn’t in the Senate and didn’t have to actually vote, but once there only voted to fund it. Don’t remember too many great oratorical speeches on his behalf against the war or its funds.
I can’t beleive you wrote such garbage, unless you are one that beleives that it dosen’t matter how many American lives are lost as long as there is nothing used, decribed as torture to keep further attacks from happening. People like you need to go live in these foreign countrys with these jerks that caused and carried out 9/11 attacks. You write with a poison pen because of your dislike of Bush. You need to learn what a true American is.
In just a few days we have seen the effects of one administration threatening the prosecution of another.
This will lead to civil war in this country.
Keep pushing..national suicide will be yours!
Hey SM,
This whole frenzy over so-called torture has the needle on my BS detector stuck on “Ludicrous Level”, and articles like this keep it buried there. We live in a country where people like Mr. Goodman can scream in phony, sanctimonious outrage over the waterboarding of a handful of terrorist monsters, while innocent, healthy babies are daily hacked to pieces in partial birth abortions on a whim. Can someone explain this inconsistancy of outrage?
The whole campaign of rage on this issue stinks of a partisan and personal gotcha game. Clinton “tortured” a compound filled with men, women, and children, for weeks. None of them had been found guilty of anything in a court of law, but they were treated in ways that would have thrown the ACLU into a tizzy if similar treatment had been given to imprisoned murderers. Then, in a slight deviation from due process, they were all incinerated. Where was the prosecutorial zeal in the Bush administration for the horrors of Waco?
Andrew 191: Wow. Nice try changing the subject, but I don’t think so. But as I recall the people holed up at Waco were given multiple chances to leave and were encouraged to do so. Even the inmates at Guantanamo WHO WERE FOUND INNOCENT are finding it hard to be released. I suggest you read up on the case of the Uighers and others who find themselves languishing in legal limbo. There are many prisoners who were sold to the American army by bounty hunters, warlords and other entities hungry for the $25,000 reward being offered for “al Qaeda operatives”.
It wasn’t an attempt to change the subject at all. I was simply using other examples of disgusting and brutal activities as a means of comparison to the current “torture” furor in an attempt to cast it into a proper and objective perspective. This whole affair is nothing but the lingering effects of Bush derangement syndrome, and all of the howling indignation is just a thinly disguised, and shameful display of selective partisan outrage. Obsessing on it any further will damage this country in more ways than you can imagine.
No administration has prosecuted prior administrations even for very controversial subjects like slavery, dropping nukes on Japan, and entering into questionable conflicts, from the War of 1812 to Viet Nam. If 0bama does this, he will be setting an extremely dangerous and destructive precedent. Of course, in my opinion, that is exactly why 0bama will do it.
Talking about making money…
Is there anyone who’ll make or take a wager; that “Olde Deadeye” will come clean on his own dime?
Ambassador Joseph Wilson, has recently commented on VP Cheney’s hypocracy, when it comes to torture and the release of classified testimony and information.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-04-26/freedom-of-disinformation/2
The former VP would like selected portions of now classified information to be released; that supposedly exonerates his advocacy for the use of torture.
While at any time, past and future, Mr. Cheney could of his own volition, release his testimony concerning the outing of CIA NOC, Valarie Plame.
Hey Andrew,
Only those that have a vested interest in making money by being on talk shows or writing threads or having whole blogs devoted to this subject keep this suicide going.
They have long since lost their bearings and insist upon dragging the United States through a humiliating display of defeat so that we can apologize and pay retribution to those that killed our people while punishing those that kept us safe.
it’s all about the money Andrew!
otherwise these revisionists would just go away.
How many people on this blog often make statements about this country becoming a “Banana Republic”? These same people whine and moan that our treatment of imprisoned combatants and terrorists is proof of this. I suppose with generous doses of hyperbole and partisan rhetoric that argument could be made.
However, when I picture “Banana Republics” the first thing that comes to mind is the execution or imprisonment of members of the prior government by the power mad forces of the new government; it’s the most prominent trademark of such Republics. Isn’t it obvious that this type of behavior accurately mimics what is currently going on here?
Yes SM, I totally agree that money,(and power) are at the heart of the matter, and the roar of sanctimonious bluster is just the smokescrean of a conveniently shifting moral highground.
Sadly, the other day on this blog, someone called Truman a murderer for dropping the bombs, and there was also the usual and pathetic claim that 9/11 was not a terrorist attack. So, no, I don’t imagine that the revisionists will ever go away. We’ll always have to suffer their presense.
Like Fred Thompson said (see post below) you dont release memos like these in time of war. It used to be that this would be consider a crime of teason to release papers like this to the public, where our enemies could see them.
Way to Go!!! It’s a crock to hold this “moral” attitude toward torture when there is torturing going on in this country every day. Sick of all this Bush bashing - he is GONE - get over it!!! You have your “O” now……………
Bravo Andrew! How quickly we seem to forget. 9-11 is being used as a political ploy. How much lower can we sink before we totally destroy this Country? Did Bush do some things perhaps he shouldn’t have done? What would any of you do if you were in his position? Probably the same. He was responsible for the American People first and foremost. Try having that weight on your shoulders before you sit in judgement.
http://original.antiwar.com/henderson/2009/04/27/the-case-for-prosecuting-bush/
Well, I keep flip flopping on the consequences of an investigation, but that quote could bring me back to being in favor of one. I would very much like Presidents to not be allowed to abuse power and if holding the previous administration accountable would prevent our current President from abusing power, I’d say bring it on. The problem is that Obama and his administration are the biggest power grabbers of all time and it will get worse. There is no way they will do anything to put a spotlight on or a stop to the outrageous power he wants to have. I’m not sure why he even brought this to light, except that he seems to be a moron. An investigation probably is warranted, but it cannot be one sided and go after one party and not the other. They all had a hand in it. I just hope Hillary’s name would not come up. See? Another problem is we take out the bums, but we may take out some of the few good folks left in our Government, too.
And what say we investigate some things Obama while we’re at it. One thing that comes to mind??? Foreign campaign donations, his involvement with Rezko and Blago, etc., oh, and that pesky birth/natural born thing. This could be a boom for the economy. Instead of stimulus, hire folks like me to investigate or type up the papers, etc. I’ll do it. This could create millions of jobs.
[...] New Wars added an interesting post today on â Permalink Comments [0] [...]
Here is a very interesting read by Fred Thompson. He too realizes that Obama really has blown it. Thompson also has pointed out the mess in DC now due to his inept releasing of the memos.
http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/fred_thompson_obama_cia/2009/04/26/207563.html?s=al&promo_code=7EB4-1
Someone needs to talk to Obama before he totally destroys our country. Obama is like a little boy set loose with a screw driver and starts unscrewing all the screws he sees. Due to Obama’ inept stupidity he has finally found one screw he should have left alone.
I would bet there are folks like Thompson trying to talk to him. McCain and Clinton (both), too. But does the Superstar listen????? Doubtful!
I really did hope that Obama would make good and do some good for our Country. Yet at the rate Obama is going I hate to see where our country will be by the end of the year.
Thank God. A voice of reason. Mel, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your post. Those who are so bitterly opposed to making government officials who abuse power answer for their excesses have obviously never had an innocent relative incarcerated or tortured by a totalitarian regime in the name of “national security” and “protecting the homeland” from “enemies of the state”. In many countries, these “enemies” are usually those who dare speak up against tyrants or, in many cases, guilty of the crime of being Jews. For those who still resist the notion of investigating and prosecuting those who write and enforce laws they know to be illegal, inhumane and immoral, rent “Judgment at Nuremberg”.
Rent “Judgement at Nuremberg”? DO YOU REALLY WANT TO COMPARE THE TREATMENT THAT OUR PRISONERS RECEIVED WITH THE TREATMENT THAT THE NAZIS GAVE THE JEWS?!!!!!! If you equate the waterboarding of a handfull of criminals and bloodthirsty terrorists with the unspeakable horrors and genocide that the Nazis forced upon the Jews, then you are maliciously insulting the souls that survived the Holocaust, and shitting on the mass graves of those that didn’t. Is your perspective that warped?
Andrew 191: HOLDING DOWN THE CAPS LOCK KEY DOES NOT MAKE YOUR ARGUMENT MORE PERSUASIVE. But all this anger may give you an aneurism. A question: Are you Jewish? I am. Were your relatives ever imprisoned by a government that labeled them “enemies of the state”? Mine were. Were your relatives ever butchered in pogroms? Mine were. Have you had any relatives in your family who have been imprisoned and tortured, sometimes for years, on false charges? I have. Do you have any idea of what waterboarding is? Did you know it was invented during the Spanish Inquisition? Is Torquemada your role model? After all, he was protecting the believers from heresy and witchcraft - serious charges in those days (and in some parts of the world still capital offenses).
But I apologize for make a reference to Judgment at Nuremberg since you obviously don’t know what the movie is about. In it, it’s the judges - the educated, sophisticated judges - who are put on trial. The ones who upheld the racist and immoral laws crafted by the Nazi state. If you don’t see the parallels - that even the educated, not just the ignorant, the desperate, the sadists and the butchers, can become part of the machine of injustice - then just forget it.
I’m well aware of the movie, I practically know it by heart. Some of the Judges on trial had given legal standing to castrations and sterilizations, and worse. They often turned a blind eye to many of the horrors and gave a silent nod to others. A huge difference between then and now is that the victims of the Holocaust were innocents, not hellbent terrorists. In the end Spencer Tracy explained to Burt Lancaster that although the Judges did not personally take part in the atrocities, they bore more guilt because more was expected from them due to their positions.
However, you drew a direct comparison between what happened in Germany with what is happening now. That is disgusting. By doing so, you are either diminishing the Holocaust, or you are hyperinflating our actions, by a trillion degrees in each direction. It is an insane, stupid, and inflammatory comparison, and you should be ashamed for having thought it, let alone post it, even more so since you’re Jewish!
That’s my point. Thank you for making it.
You presuppose that all those who were tortured were guilty. That means that every single human being in Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, Baghram and the black sites around the world committed or were about to commit an act of terrorism. Hate to burst your bubble, Andrew, but that is simply not true. You might want to look into that.
The presumption of guilt is the cornerstone of the justice system of places like Saudi Arabia. Sounds like you’re defending their legal practices.
And once you’ve released your pent up anger you might want to read this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/24/AR2009042403888.html
No, I presuppose, and have yet to be proven wrong by the evidence, that NOBODY was “Tortured” since I don’t believe that waterboarding is torture. Your whole position on this subject seems to be based on YOUR belief that waterboarding IS torture. From my perspective (and I’m not alone) your are basing your whole position on the false premise that harsh interrogations constitute torture. And when you equate what went on in our interrogations with the war crimes of the Holocaust, your credibility drops to zero.
The peaceful transfer of power is the cornerstone of our Republic, but when a new administration attacks the previous administration,(especially on grossly trumped up charges) our whole system will collapse. Anyone with an important government position will become frozen and not likely to take controversial, but necessary actions for fear that the next administration may capriciously change the rules and definitions(waterboarding is redefined as torture) and come after them in an ex-post-facto witch hunt. Your obvious hatred and obsession with all things Bush has blinded you from seeing the damage this Inquisition will cause, and has destroyed your ability to reason, if you ever had it.
You may be interested to read what Pat Lang has to say on the subject. If you don’t agree with what he has to say you might want to leave insulting and patronizing comments for him too.
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2009/04/nuremberg-and-american-exceptionalism.html
He uses the same childish hyperbole as the author above when he describes the interrogations as “war crimes” as a shameful semantic distortion needed to conflate our interrogations with the Holocaust. The term “war crimes” then becomes the main link between two situations that are vastly different in scale and character. It allows the introduction of the old “I was just following orders” as an example of a demonstrably flawed excuse. Nobody has made the argument that war crimes were not committed in WWII, and that “following orders” is no defense. However, this entire line of thought regarding the current situation dissolves when enhanced interrogations are not, and should not, be considered war crimes of torture. Again, calling the interrogations “war crimes” in order to introduce comparisons to Nazi Germany is a disgusting insult to our intelligence agents, and the victims of the Holocaust, and it reaks of blatant partisan hyperbole and Bush hating BS.
Go ahead, keep up the vengeful attacks, it will please our enemies, and demoralize our country. I’m beginning to realize that people like you and the author have placed vengence over country. Rev. Wright would love you.
should be “or torture”, not “of torture”
Having read the Nazi memos on “enhanced interrogation” techniques, and their subsequent defense of it, I see significant parallels between the Nazis and what happened under Bush, regarding torture.
What? The Nazi memos? If you don’t know about them, then you should see my comment below with links to Nazi “enhanced interrogation” memos, and the Nazi defense of them.
I strongly support an investigation, I reject the argument that it will “divide” this country or cause a “civil war.” Torture is illegal. It doesn’t work. Our laws apply equally in this country. We must uphold the laws of this country, and the President swore an oath to do so. The implications of this are huge: A “banana republic” is not an accurate depiction for a country which holds everyone equally accountable under the law. But, it is certainly an accurate assessment of a country which has one law for elites, and one law for the common people.
If you and others, especially Obama havent realized we are still in a war. In looking at the bombings still going on in the world and the English terriorist roundup a few weeks back there is still a threat of another 9/11.
Yet Obama releases these papers for all to see, including our enemies. Now we have all of DC filled with inner bickering of who didnt understand, support or hear what. Fingers are pointing everywhere and I bet our enemies are laughing their heads off.
Wake up America there are far worse things happening around our country. We have hundreds going homeless, dieing on the our borders by cartel, thousands losing their jobs, companies going under and the list goes on.
My prayer everyday is that someone in DC will wake up and Obama will start fixing our country instead of destroying it.
DCMediagirl. andrew 191 is thoroughly disrespectful and insensitive. Naturally he misses the point, using tortured logic, to in fact purposely defend Dick Cheney and George W. above all else, instead of using reason to see the most productive way forward for America. Reagan is would have a stern word or two for andrew.
Congratulations CG. Your post may represent the most concentrated brew of non sequiturs, baseless conjecture, twisted logic, and misuse of words, all swirling in a broth of utter stupidity, that I’ve ever read. Archie Bunker has met his match.
I swear you are as offensive and rude as Undercover Black Man just a different persuasion of the same, so determined in your superiority. It is your preference to insult, and to make it personal. Chill dude.
Have you noticed the weather turning nice in our neck of the woods; that is supposed to soften one’s disposition isn’t it? Look outside, it’s beautiful! This area is like heaven on earth, with the mountains, the water, the islands, the trees and so on. Hey and the Mariners have improved over last year. Is it possible to disagree with the author and commenters without fangs?
the complimentary image you’ve concocted though.. it’s priceless!!
CG,
Glad to see that you are enjoying our very special place in the world.
GO MARINERS!!!!
Moss, I read all the comments of those with whom I agree or disagree, and respect each point of view. Moss, you always state your opinion, but I have yet to see you personally attack anyone who does not share your opinion on one issue when otherwise that person mostly agrees with the majority at NQ (i.e. someone who is not an Obot). I commend you for your discipline and diplomacy. DC Mediagirl is not an Obot and has been at NQ from the beginning. You managed to make fun of me in a preferable, more constructive way, around the back door, that is not a personal attack, like below when you say
Having read the thread of DCMediagirl, with the explanation of her experience, I found Andrew to be downright mean, insensitive and disrespectful, otherwise I would not have responded. Instead of backing off a bit, he went for the jugular, with some unnecessary poisonous venom in his fangs. It made me cringe. I responded to DC Mediagirl because of a rude, personal attack which she did not deserve, one in which you would not have engaged though your opinion differed.
Is anyone persuasive in making a compelling argument which would convince someone to reconsider a point of view when in the same breath that person is personally attacked? A little compassion and civility go along way in discourse with fellow commenters, in my humble (but unworthy, if I take someone’s insults to heart) opinion. Shallow victory trumpeted below… I’ll enjoy this heaven on earth.
Oh, quit bawling like a big fat baby CG, good grief. Your first post was nothing BUT silly insults and patrinizing catty digs. You’re the type of playground coward that likes to get in a quick cheap shot, and then you run off squealing to the teacher when the victim of your sneak attack retaliates.
Well, when you put it that way, I hope I didn’t harsh your buzz………..Dude. I soooo hope you can forgive me for my impertinent assault on your self appointed sanctimony and monopoly on the realm of touchy feely drivel. I would love to compliment you more on your unassailable wisdom, but I have to race to the toilet; reading your last post has created an unsuppressible urge to vomit.
Andrew,
You have been getting the honors today as I’m worn out trying to convince the revisionists that National Suicide awaits us if show trials go forward.
You’re worn out? Geeze, I’m flat out exhausted. But we have to press on.
So we have seen what one week of this crap can do…Just wait until the pics are made public
Years of this will cause a Nationalistic Republican Revolution!
I could never hope to say it better, it’s humbling, and inspirational. It’s sad that country music doesn’t tug at the hearts of ALL Americans. And during these troubling times, all Americans need to rally around the shared icons that are unique to this country, and embrace them as the force that will hold us together. Muslims make their pilgrimage to Mecca, Americans should all, at least once in their lives, cruise the length of Route 66 in a classic American car while listening to golden oldies on the radio. If you don’t love and appreciate this country after that, get the Hell out.
Andrew,
What these folks who live here with their houses perched on the hills looking out to the sound have only just found out..
Change means….Change from your culture to another not like yours
This is the horror which is Obama.
0bama will turn the American dream into a global nightmare.
Have a good night Andrew!
The battles have just begun!!
Moss, those that would eat their young as the repubs will from time to time, have no problem pointing out the hypocracy of the left. This is the of WHY “impeachment is off the table” Nancy Pelosi let it slide. The law requires justice be served not expiedency of any kind. Sorry Nancy does not get it. 14 years on the intel committe and she is clueless.
the op’ed by Porter Goss shows what a dangerous person BO is.
It was said that morale at the CIA during his tenure was bad, but that does not mean he not keenly aware of what damage BO has done.
———
Just wait until the pics are made public
Officer Obie has the color glossy 8 by 10 photos I hear.
I understand that Bush AND BO lost this case. It will energize the fantical Islamic street and the Code Pink zinc heads. (one cell shy of bein’ a battery)
Yet a picture tells many a story. BO will pull the “I was only three months old” routine and by the way…Nancy Pelosi, you have an appointment with the underside of the bus. Pray those you threw under it already, have a shed of compassion for you and your lies.
I do not.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-bromwich/follow-the-evidence_b_190750.html
http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/david-bromwich/
As to whether torture as described is appropriate and yields results, I have no experience and will not thus render any opinion. However as to that which I would consider to be torture vs. TORTURE that I can comment on and from what I have heard about water boarding under the conditions described, I can suggest that is the little “t” type. If you disagree I suggest you spend some time volunteering at your regional burn center. There you will find many, whether by accident or malicious reason who truly are under continuous TORTURE. During my surgical training I spent many months at one and my current companion spent years as a nurse at another. When a 14 year old boy trying to help out on the family farm, rolls the tracter pinning both legs up to the pelvis under it and then has the resulting spilled fuel ignite and burn the remaining 60% of him but amazinly is kept alive for 5 weeks he is being TORTURED. I know because I was there when he arrived, there when we removed what was left of both legs from the hips down and there for his remaining days caring for him, and he is just one of thousands having to endure such a fate. For the last 20 years I have spent about 50 over-night hours a week as the receiving ER-MD working at a hospital wegded between three of the most statistically dangerous highways in the country and have thus seen my share of mutilated people under TORTURE, that in my eyes goes well beyond some transient choking. Back as a child I was taken to that Ripley Museum in NYC and saw apparatus that truly produce TORTURE that didn’t stop when the procedure ended. Lastly when a predator drone shoots it hellfire missile or whatever it shoots at a legitimate target but also burns the house next door where perhaps a family is asleep again you have TORTURE. Would I like to be water boarded, no!!!!, but one must look at things in a relative manner and greater danger here is the potential aspiration and secondary pneumonia. The discomfort here,in my eyes is much more “torture” than “TORTURE”.
Thankyou for bringing a degree of perspective to the picture.
I empathize with you. It must take a toll and it must be torture for both you and your patients. I salute you for both your caring and the work you perform. That being said, an accident and subsequent treatment is one thing; directed and intentional abuse of another human being is quite another. I recently had an abcessed tooth, which caused such excruciating pain I was quite nauseous. Even a local anesthetic was cause for no relief. Would I trade places with someone being waterboarded? The short answer is no , as it was my pain due to my own body’s reaction, which could be at some point alleviated and not due to an external force over which I had no control. I suppose it all hinges on the external, intentional, and directed part for me.
I agree with you 100%. But easy for us to say. Do you remember what happened to the last president that the CIA did not like? Also, the country is in some ways dependent on their morale. I wouldnt put it past those clandestine body to be less than up to their best when another attack brews. Unless where very obvious violation and degenerate behavior can be singled out I would leave the CIA alone for those reasons.
But America is a nation of laws. That’s one big things that defines us. We must execute justice to those who called the shots at the JD. And apply leniency or pardons if they can be shown to only be acting in national interest. The law is the law.
Excellent article!! I look forward to the next installment. Thank you.
Just another CIA career bureaucrat trying to blame someone else - anyone else - for the repeated and major fuckups (including 9/11) promulgated by the
so-called “intelligence” community.
Bottom line: No attack since 9/11.
Did this clown Goodman have anything to do with that?
Now he gets to sit his fat ass on a nice pension and throw rocks……. er pebbles.
I wish I could be as generous and forgiving with my assessment of Mr.Goodman as you graywolf. Judging by your rather reserved critique of the author of this article, you must have an extremely high tolerance for BS.
I keep re-reading those words - “He clearly wants to do the right thing…” and then, I think about the U.S. troops that will suffer the consequences of Obama’s decision to release photos and memos at this time when we are still at war and I am dismayed that anyone could think this is the RIGHT THING.
Memo: Waterboard Leahy and Pelosi.
Hello.
I would like to put a link to your site on my blog roll if you want to do the same for mine. It would be a good way to build up both of our readerships.
thank you.
A friend of mine just emailed me one of your articles from a while back. I read that one a few more. Really enjoy your blog. Thanks
Thanks for posting the article, was certainly a great read!
Hello.
I like your site and wanted to know if you would be interested in exchanging blogroll links.
Thanks in advance
I found your site on Google and read a few of your other entires. Nice Stuff. I’m looking forward to reading more from you.
I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future.
Can you tell me who did your layout? I’ve been looking for one kind of like yours. Thank you.
From the Nazis to Bush: “Enhanced Interrogation”
Nazi Memos:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/05/verschfte_verne.html
Bush’s torturers follow where the Nazis led
From The Sunday Times October 7, 2007
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/andrew_sullivan/article2602564.ece
silly goose war ain’t about RIGHT and WRONG war is about who will be LEFT.
You must fight like you mean to win which means using every tool in the book.
War ain’t no soccer match with rules and umpires.
War is about death, destruction and suffering.
To win means having to use the methods of the enemy which means torture.
Iraqi prisoners refuse to leave prison.
They want to finish their studies. Torture!
Doc99: Good for them. So let’s throw open the gates of Guantanamo, Baghram and other locales where prisoners are being held and see how many want to stay where they are.
BTW, an inside tip: I worked for a news channel — an international news channel — that forbade its newswriters from using any AFP stories for any reason, even as a second source. AFP was considered too unreliable a news organization. I’m not saying this story is wrong, just that AFP ain’t exactly the BBC.
55% of Americans support waterboarding Al Qaeda suspects.
A new Gallup Poll finds 51% of Americans in favor and 42% opposed to an investigation into the use of harsh interrogation techniques on terrorism suspects during the Bush administration. At the same time, 55% of Americans believe in retrospect that the use of the interrogation techniques was justified, while only 36% say it was not. Notably, a majority of those following the news about this matter “very closely” oppose an investigation and think the methods were justified.
There’s no mention of how many Americans support waterboarding Nancy Pelosi.
lol rofl, doc. nice one.
America’s Shame
Eric Margolis
http://www.lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis145.html
Michael Scheuer, no fan of Bush-Cheney, rips Obama.HT: The Corner
Now, in a single week, President Obama has eliminated two-thirds of that successful-but-not-sufficient national defense troika because his personal ideology — a fair gist of which is “If the world likes us more we are more secure” — cannot tolerate harsh interrogation techniques, torture or coercive interviews, call them what you will. Surprisingly, Obama now stands alongside Bush as a genuine American Jacobin, both of them seeing the world as they want it to be, not as it is. Whereas Bush saw a world of Muslims yearning to betray their God for Western secularism, Obama gazes upon a globe that he regards as largely carnivore-free and believes that remaining threats can be defused by semantic warfare; just stop saying “War on Terror” and give talks in Turkey and on al-Arabiyah television, for example.
Americans should be clear on what Obama has done. In a breathtaking display of self-righteousness and intellectual arrogance, the president told Americans that his personal beliefs are more important than protecting their country, their homes and their families. The interrogation techniques in question, the president asserted, are a sign that Americans have lost their “moral compass,” a compliment similar to Attorney General Eric Holder’s identifying them as “moral cowards.” Mulling Obama’s claim, one can wonder what could be more moral for a president than doing all that is needed to defend America and its citizens? Or, asked another way, is it moral for the president of the United States to abandon intelligence tools that have saved the lives and property of Americans and their allies in favor of his own ideological beliefs?