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	<title>Comments on: Policy in Afghanistan</title>
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		<title>By: Docelder</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1199277</link>
		<dc:creator>Docelder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 18:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Not quite so romantic as that scripted tale of forbidden love and the resultant story of the son of a goat herder made good. But then again the truth is rarely pretty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not quite so romantic as that scripted tale of forbidden love and the resultant story of the son of a goat herder made good. But then again the truth is rarely pretty.</p>
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		<title>By: mountainaires</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1199276</link>
		<dc:creator>mountainaires</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 18:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1199276</guid>
		<description>Along that line, Russian oligarchs and US oligarchs. What&#039;s the difference? Between our policy in Afghanistan, and our elites running things at home, we&#039;re looking mighty similar. 

Michael Panzner:

April 30, 2009

&lt;strong&gt;&#039;They Own the Place&#039;&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;I written a number of posts at Financial Armageddon and When Giants Fall over the past two years -- including &quot;The Newest Banana Republic?&quot; &quot;Banana Republic, Here We Come,&quot; &quot;&#039;Starting to Look Like a Third World Country,&#039;&quot; &quot;More Confirmation of U.S. Banana Republic Status,&quot; &quot;The Next Phase,&quot; and &quot;No Longer a Joke?&quot; -- that suggest the world&#039;s &quot;sole&quot; superpower is looking more and more like a banana republic every day. Among the evidence I&#039;ve cited are reports highlighting the incestuously close relationship between the moneyed elite and our elected leadership. 

In the latest such example, &quot;Top Senate Democrat: Bankers &#039;Own&#039; the U.S. Congress,&quot; Salon.com&#039;s Glenn Greenwald provides us with a stark picture of this ugly reality.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://www.economicroadmap.com/2009/04/they-own-the-place.html

Simon Johnson: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Economy May 2009 Atlantic 
The crash has laid bare many unpleasant truths about the United States. One of the most alarming, says a former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, is that the finance industry has effectively captured our government—a state of affairs that more typically describes emerging markets, and is at the center of many emerging-market crises. If the IMF’s staff could speak freely about the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform. And if we are to prevent a true depression, we’re running out of time.
by Simon Johnson &lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Russia&#039;s New Oligarchs

Who pulls the strings of power in Russia? &lt;/strong&gt;

The answer is not as simple as it might first appear. Mr Vladimir Putin, like Boris Yeltsin before him, got elected with the help of a handful of businessmen. 

Known as oligarchs, these businessmen wield a great deal of influence over Russia&#039;s political and economic life. 

They bought most of Russia&#039;s national resources at bargain basement prices, often in return for favours to key politicians. 

With a little help from their political friends, they are all back in business, despite having been hit hard during the financial crisis. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_oligarch

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/692297.stm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Along that line, Russian oligarchs and US oligarchs. What&#8217;s the difference? Between our policy in Afghanistan, and our elites running things at home, we&#8217;re looking mighty similar. </p>
<p>Michael Panzner:</p>
<p>April 30, 2009</p>
<p><strong>&#8216;They Own the Place&#8217;</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>I written a number of posts at Financial Armageddon and When Giants Fall over the past two years &#8212; including &#8220;The Newest Banana Republic?&#8221; &#8220;Banana Republic, Here We Come,&#8221; &#8220;&#8216;Starting to Look Like a Third World Country,&#8217;&#8221; &#8220;More Confirmation of U.S. Banana Republic Status,&#8221; &#8220;The Next Phase,&#8221; and &#8220;No Longer a Joke?&#8221; &#8212; that suggest the world&#8217;s &#8220;sole&#8221; superpower is looking more and more like a banana republic every day. Among the evidence I&#8217;ve cited are reports highlighting the incestuously close relationship between the moneyed elite and our elected leadership. </p>
<p>In the latest such example, &#8220;Top Senate Democrat: Bankers &#8216;Own&#8217; the U.S. Congress,&#8221; Salon.com&#8217;s Glenn Greenwald provides us with a stark picture of this ugly reality.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.economicroadmap.com/2009/04/they-own-the-place.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.economicroadmap.com/2009/04/they-own-the-place.html</a></p>
<p>Simon Johnson: </p>
<blockquote><p>Economy May 2009 Atlantic<br />
The crash has laid bare many unpleasant truths about the United States. One of the most alarming, says a former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, is that the finance industry has effectively captured our government—a state of affairs that more typically describes emerging markets, and is at the center of many emerging-market crises. If the IMF’s staff could speak freely about the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform. And if we are to prevent a true depression, we’re running out of time.<br />
by Simon Johnson </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice" rel="nofollow">http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice</a></p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Russia&#8217;s New Oligarchs</p>
<p>Who pulls the strings of power in Russia? </strong></p>
<p>The answer is not as simple as it might first appear. Mr Vladimir Putin, like Boris Yeltsin before him, got elected with the help of a handful of businessmen. </p>
<p>Known as oligarchs, these businessmen wield a great deal of influence over Russia&#8217;s political and economic life. </p>
<p>They bought most of Russia&#8217;s national resources at bargain basement prices, often in return for favours to key politicians. </p>
<p>With a little help from their political friends, they are all back in business, despite having been hit hard during the financial crisis. </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_oligarch" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_oligarch</a></p>
<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/692297.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/692297.stm</a></p>
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		<title>By: mountainaires</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1199205</link>
		<dc:creator>mountainaires</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 15:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1199205</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;When did we become &quot;The former Soviet Union&quot; in this country?&lt;/strong&gt;

I just have to laugh at the incredible moronics we&#039;ve all just adopted without even thinking. I have to laugh because otherwise, I might get a little overwhelmed by the transition we&#039;ve made in this country over 8 years. 

We have lost our rights under the 4th amendment--even as US citizens--everywhere, but particularly in a 100-mile from the border map around the entire country. You can be stopped, searched, have your vehicle seized or your property in the vehicle seized without legal redress. 

We&#039;re calling this &lt;strong&gt;the &quot;HOMELAND.&quot; &lt;/strong&gt;We now have &lt;strong&gt;&quot;CZARS&quot;&lt;/strong&gt; for everything from economics to health. 

We use &lt;strong&gt;Soviet methods of Torture&lt;/strong&gt;. Then we invoke &lt;strong&gt;&quot;state secrets&quot; &lt;/strong&gt;privilege to hide it from the people. 

Our media mirrors a &lt;strong&gt;state-run media &lt;/strong&gt;if ever there was one. Any media who defied Bush was threatened; Obama is doing the same. 

We hold prisoners &lt;strong&gt;without trial&lt;/strong&gt;. 

We &quot;rendition&quot; people secretly to dungeons and torture them to &quot;confess.&quot; 

We&#039;re running a gulag at Guantanamo.

And, we&#039;re engaged in a &lt;strong&gt;no-win long war in Afghanistan.&lt;/strong&gt; The Soviets were finally driven out after a decade; now we&#039;re following in their footsteps. The American people don&#039;t realize that yet, but they will. Moreover, if--when--Pakistan explodes, where will we get the troops and the money to jump into that war, too. And, what if Israel decides to attack Iran? Are we going to be able to deal with the consequences of that? How will we pay for it? The Soviets bankrupted their country in Afghanistan; so could we.

&lt;strong&gt;Nyet&lt;/strong&gt; to it all, I say. I didn&#039;t move to Russia, and I really am sick of imitating Russia in America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>When did we become &#8220;The former Soviet Union&#8221; in this country?</strong></p>
<p>I just have to laugh at the incredible moronics we&#8217;ve all just adopted without even thinking. I have to laugh because otherwise, I might get a little overwhelmed by the transition we&#8217;ve made in this country over 8 years. </p>
<p>We have lost our rights under the 4th amendment&#8211;even as US citizens&#8211;everywhere, but particularly in a 100-mile from the border map around the entire country. You can be stopped, searched, have your vehicle seized or your property in the vehicle seized without legal redress. </p>
<p>We&#8217;re calling this <strong>the &#8220;HOMELAND.&#8221; </strong>We now have <strong>&#8220;CZARS&#8221;</strong> for everything from economics to health. </p>
<p>We use <strong>Soviet methods of Torture</strong>. Then we invoke <strong>&#8220;state secrets&#8221; </strong>privilege to hide it from the people. </p>
<p>Our media mirrors a <strong>state-run media </strong>if ever there was one. Any media who defied Bush was threatened; Obama is doing the same. </p>
<p>We hold prisoners <strong>without trial</strong>. </p>
<p>We &#8220;rendition&#8221; people secretly to dungeons and torture them to &#8220;confess.&#8221; </p>
<p>We&#8217;re running a gulag at Guantanamo.</p>
<p>And, we&#8217;re engaged in a <strong>no-win long war in Afghanistan.</strong> The Soviets were finally driven out after a decade; now we&#8217;re following in their footsteps. The American people don&#8217;t realize that yet, but they will. Moreover, if&#8211;when&#8211;Pakistan explodes, where will we get the troops and the money to jump into that war, too. And, what if Israel decides to attack Iran? Are we going to be able to deal with the consequences of that? How will we pay for it? The Soviets bankrupted their country in Afghanistan; so could we.</p>
<p><strong>Nyet</strong> to it all, I say. I didn&#8217;t move to Russia, and I really am sick of imitating Russia in America.</p>
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		<title>By: mountainaires</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1199202</link>
		<dc:creator>mountainaires</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 15:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1199202</guid>
		<description>Hello? Anybody in there? 

SAUDIS flew those planes into the WTC. Not the Taliban, not Iraqis. 

We are allies of the Saudis. So, please make your reactionary arguments based on some form of truth and logic, instead of emotionalism and demogoguery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello? Anybody in there? </p>
<p>SAUDIS flew those planes into the WTC. Not the Taliban, not Iraqis. </p>
<p>We are allies of the Saudis. So, please make your reactionary arguments based on some form of truth and logic, instead of emotionalism and demogoguery.</p>
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		<title>By: termo</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1199110</link>
		<dc:creator>termo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 10:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1199110</guid>
		<description>Do you have any idea what are you talking about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you have any idea what are you talking about?</p>
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		<title>By: TeakwoodKite</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1199019</link>
		<dc:creator>TeakwoodKite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 03:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1199019</guid>
		<description>Thank you Mr. Lang for you Point of view.
Agree or not, it is good food for thought.

I am not sure that Pakistan needs a return to military rule, but I do agree the propable outcome my be just that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Mr. Lang for you Point of view.<br />
Agree or not, it is good food for thought.</p>
<p>I am not sure that Pakistan needs a return to military rule, but I do agree the propable outcome my be just that.</p>
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		<title>By: TeakwoodKite</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1199007</link>
		<dc:creator>TeakwoodKite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 03:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1199007</guid>
		<description>Docelder, 

Shock and awe has many forms.

Getting into someones decision cycle takes many things, chief among them is accurate Intel and a pragmatic understanding of what ones&#039; end goal is.

Pissing munitions from great heights no doubt is one form, but even Rumsfield had one thing right, when saying;

&lt;blockquote&gt;SEC. RUMSFELD:  I don’t – I can’t quote precisely what I said, but the context, I believe, was this: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=2374&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;there are only so many times you can bomb &lt;/a&gt; a terrorist training camp if it is essentially a place where people come and go, where there are tents, where there are obstacle courses, where there are firing ranges, where there are cheap buildings that they use to practice on, and you can bomb them or put cruise missiles on them once and it costs a – the lives of whoever’s there, and that’s a good thing because you’ve prevented that X number of terrorists, but they get warnings and they tend to be able to move.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

All societies can be made to crumble under the right conditions. Look how far this country has devolved since 9/11. So I ask, destroy what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Docelder, </p>
<p>Shock and awe has many forms.</p>
<p>Getting into someones decision cycle takes many things, chief among them is accurate Intel and a pragmatic understanding of what ones&#8217; end goal is.</p>
<p>Pissing munitions from great heights no doubt is one form, but even Rumsfield had one thing right, when saying;</p>
<blockquote><p>SEC. RUMSFELD:  I don’t – I can’t quote precisely what I said, but the context, I believe, was this: <a href="http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=2374" rel="nofollow">there are only so many times you can bomb </a> a terrorist training camp if it is essentially a place where people come and go, where there are tents, where there are obstacle courses, where there are firing ranges, where there are cheap buildings that they use to practice on, and you can bomb them or put cruise missiles on them once and it costs a – the lives of whoever’s there, and that’s a good thing because you’ve prevented that X number of terrorists, but they get warnings and they tend to be able to move.</p></blockquote>
<p>All societies can be made to crumble under the right conditions. Look how far this country has devolved since 9/11. So I ask, destroy what?</p>
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		<title>By: foxyladi14</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1198915</link>
		<dc:creator>foxyladi14</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1198915</guid>
		<description>i.m afraid that will happooen to us too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i.m afraid that will happooen to us too.</p>
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		<title>By: Obama: Dubya II Electric Boogaloo</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1198910</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama: Dubya II Electric Boogaloo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1198910</guid>
		<description>I also think it&#039;s funny that on one hand we&#039;re condeming such &quot;evil&quot; torture tactics as face slapping and sleep deprivation that were being done to captured Taliban fighters is an insult to our American moral fiber, yet we&#039;re lamenting that we need another military dictator to take over Pakistan and rule with an iron fist because the Taliban are bad.

How fucking hypocritical is that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also think it&#8217;s funny that on one hand we&#8217;re condeming such &#8220;evil&#8221; torture tactics as face slapping and sleep deprivation that were being done to captured Taliban fighters is an insult to our American moral fiber, yet we&#8217;re lamenting that we need another military dictator to take over Pakistan and rule with an iron fist because the Taliban are bad.</p>
<p>How fucking hypocritical is that?</p>
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		<title>By: Obama: Dubya II Electric Boogaloo</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1198908</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama: Dubya II Electric Boogaloo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1198908</guid>
		<description>Exactly!

Why is it that unless the enemy has thermonukes they are harmless and a waste of our defensive time. 

I bet Britain and their slide towards Sharia law would beg to differ about the harmlessness of muslims. It&#039;s already starting to happen in America. And you know what? We are so fucking stupid that political correctness and not wanting to hurt the feelings of &quot;good&quot; muslims will send us down the road to having sharia law coded into our laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly!</p>
<p>Why is it that unless the enemy has thermonukes they are harmless and a waste of our defensive time. </p>
<p>I bet Britain and their slide towards Sharia law would beg to differ about the harmlessness of muslims. It&#8217;s already starting to happen in America. And you know what? We are so fucking stupid that political correctness and not wanting to hurt the feelings of &#8220;good&#8221; muslims will send us down the road to having sharia law coded into our laws.</p>
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		<title>By: benny</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1198899</link>
		<dc:creator>benny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1198899</guid>
		<description>hiya cat, I&#039;ve been a little busy. been travelling all over on work. Hows you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hiya cat, I&#8217;ve been a little busy. been travelling all over on work. Hows you?</p>
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		<title>By: NoBamaNoWay</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1198898</link>
		<dc:creator>NoBamaNoWay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1198898</guid>
		<description>i agree too that america is not facing a mortal *military/terrorist* threat from afghanistan/radical muslims; even if terrorists got off a nuclear bomb in a major american city and killed 100,000 people every 10 years (which is highly unlikely), that death rate of 10K people per year is still far less than die in regular old street crime or car crashes in the US every year, and nobody is living in a state of panic over crime and auto accidents.

that being said, i think that the US and the entire western world is under a serious threat of &quot;Talibanization,&quot; shall we say.  make no mistake, the number of actual terrorists may be relatively few, but their supporters are many, and there are even more in the muslim world (and other parts of the world) who favor forms of government and culture that would set america back hundreds of years in terms of human rights and quality of life.

these people are reproducing much more rapidly than westerners are, and they are not shy about using violence to force their way of life on others, or to outright eliminate them.  we are in a race against time to convert them before they convert us (i am not talking about religion, per se - i&#039;m an atheist, but i mean convert their worldview into something more modern).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i agree too that america is not facing a mortal *military/terrorist* threat from afghanistan/radical muslims; even if terrorists got off a nuclear bomb in a major american city and killed 100,000 people every 10 years (which is highly unlikely), that death rate of 10K people per year is still far less than die in regular old street crime or car crashes in the US every year, and nobody is living in a state of panic over crime and auto accidents.</p>
<p>that being said, i think that the US and the entire western world is under a serious threat of &#8220;Talibanization,&#8221; shall we say.  make no mistake, the number of actual terrorists may be relatively few, but their supporters are many, and there are even more in the muslim world (and other parts of the world) who favor forms of government and culture that would set america back hundreds of years in terms of human rights and quality of life.</p>
<p>these people are reproducing much more rapidly than westerners are, and they are not shy about using violence to force their way of life on others, or to outright eliminate them.  we are in a race against time to convert them before they convert us (i am not talking about religion, per se &#8211; i&#8217;m an atheist, but i mean convert their worldview into something more modern).</p>
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		<title>By: cat</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1198897</link>
		<dc:creator>cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1198897</guid>
		<description>benny! where&#039;ve ya been?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>benny! where&#8217;ve ya been?</p>
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		<title>By: CG</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1198895</link>
		<dc:creator>CG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1198895</guid>
		<description>very informative post, PL,  I would agree though that you already had put up, it still is useful to remind us of the specific factors of the history and culture which are at the heart of this, in terms of what approach is best for a strategy forward.  I&#039;m guessing you will be asked again to put up...  Thanks for your patience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very informative post, PL,  I would agree though that you already had put up, it still is useful to remind us of the specific factors of the history and culture which are at the heart of this, in terms of what approach is best for a strategy forward.  I&#8217;m guessing you will be asked again to put up&#8230;  Thanks for your patience.</p>
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		<title>By: benny</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/30/policy-in-afghanistan/#comment-1198890</link>
		<dc:creator>benny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23196#comment-1198890</guid>
		<description>Mr. Lang, your write-up displays basic naivete. This is exactly the prob with our hypothesis for the last few decades. And that sort of analysis would bring terrorism to our shores again.

Next time, do better than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Lang, your write-up displays basic naivete. This is exactly the prob with our hypothesis for the last few decades. And that sort of analysis would bring terrorism to our shores again.</p>
<p>Next time, do better than that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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