Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach: Fighting to Serve
By SusanUnPC on May 20, 2009 at 12:30 PM in Campaign promises, Censorship, Civil Liberties, Civil Rights, Don't Ask Don't Tell, Flip Flopping, Hoodwinking, Human Rights, Obama's Broken Promises
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I don’t know how anyone can watch the above video and not be both sickened and infuriated. It’s bad enough that, every day for 18 years, this man had to live a lie and keep a secret — that dishonesty and subterfuge are ruthlessly demanded. Lt. Col. Fehrenbach was coerced into living a lie.
It’s further sickening that all of his efforts for 18 years — including his heroism — are for naught. Thank god he has the courage to speak the truth in a quite remarkable interview with Rachel Maddow.
It’s sad, pathetic really, that so many gays believed Obama’s campaign promises of doing something about “don’t ask don’t tell.” But as with so many campaign promises, it was all just talk.
MSNBC reports:
May 19: Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach was an 18-year veteran of the Air Force, and an F-15 fighter pilot. He still would be, but the Air Force fired him because he revealed he was gay. Rachel Maddow is joined by Fehrenbach, who is now fighting to keep his job.
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By Sarah Palin (Release date: November 17. 2009)
But why gamble with an 18 year career and risk a pension due at 20 years for something he had to know beforehand would get him fired. The military is very strict on most everything regarding their recruits. I am not being for or against the policy of the military here. Their rules are their rules, and you may try to change them through the proper channels, but break them outright and the consequences are absolute.
Why don’t we enact the same policy for research? (or that matter, for every stinking career in this country except hair dressing, interior design, acting and waiting tables?) Maybe it’s not good for “discipline” to have gay and lesbian medical advances? You need to get a grip.
I am not defending the overall policy, only noting that what he did was a form of activism against the military. No matter what, this man took an oath to uphold the military rules of conduct. Why he broke them is not as important as the fact that he willingly did so.
We don’t know if he intentionally broke the rules or not…..From what I got out of the intervie, it was never clarified if he broke the rules or if someone found out and made an issue of it. If that’s the case that’s even worse for him. Either way this DADT policy is a load of c**p and unfortunately Obama isn’t going to do squat about it. He’s got bigger issues to deal with thanks to how our former Redneck, I mean President, left the state of our country in.
Yep - keep bashing the Bushster!!!! What a joke.
everything is Bush’s fault!!!!!
“Don’t Ask - Don’t Tell” is a Clinton Policy - just to be clear…
The first “gay” recorded discharge was in 1778, but the ban on gays officially became the rule in 1942.
This guy has years of rule stacked against him and joined the service anyways - makes him a moron (in my book) for thinking he could all of sudden just decide to go against the flow while in uniform.
Docelder
You appear to think that the letter of the Law is more important, far more significant, than the Spirit of the Law. If this were to be universally endorsed, you would be living in a cave eating bananas off a tree and carving stones….
Obummer’s flip-flops make Kerry look like the rock of Gibraltar in terms of Certainty and steadfastness…SHAME ON BARACKS
You do not willingly become gay, and why should gay people not be able to do what they LOVE?!?!?
Absolutely, I am so ashamed of the U.S. to do this to a hero, yes a hero, he has risked his life over and over again to keep us free and safe and he is a person, no matter what he likes, period. And this is such a backwards and archaic way of thinking, and we call ourserlf modern, Huh. Get a grip people and look at what counts, the job he does for you and your childeren. WE NEED TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION AS IT WAS MEANT TO BE, EQUAL FOR EVERYONE, NOT A CHOSEN FEW. You would think that we would learn from the past history of our misgivings, but still in the year 2009, we practice hangings as in witchcraft days. How ignorant we still are, God help us, as we are still ignorant and haven’t grow yet!!!!
The thing that everyone is missing here, is the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Law is a United States Law, not Department of Defense Polcy. DoD is following the LAW. That is why Obama cannot reverse it. It will take Congress to do that. So if you think it should be changed start contacting a pressuring your representatives and Senators.
The thing that everyone is missing here, is the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Law is a United States Law, not Department of Defense Polcy. DoD is following the LAW. That is why Obama cannot reverse it. It will take Congress to do that. So if you think it should be changed start contacting and pressuring your representatives and Senators.
Totally concur. Though private lives are hopefully private, inevitably professional and private matters mix in the gray area.
You gotta wonder what else he was hiding.
Unfortunately, if we maintained that attitude, women would never have been given the right to vote. They fought for it, tested it, were beaten, imprisoned, ridiculed and abused and finally, won.
He made a choice to test what he felt was an unfair law. Whatever the consequences, I assume he felt it more important that he stand up. Certainly, “the proper channels” are never going to change this law by themselves.
Yes, it is activism if not staged martyrdom. Like the rules or not, the military must follow their own policies and they did that. I hope this guy doesn’t live to regret his decision, but it has consequences. The military doesn’t like nails that stick out from the rest. I think that is the nature of a cohesive armed forces. Everybody has to be in it together for it to work. That leaves no room for activism or even individualism for that matter. He would have been fired just as fast for growing his hair long. In the military, rules are the rules.
He ‘hoped’ for something better from a new administration who DID promise to change the policy. Like so many other talented involuntary veterans, Lt. Col Fehrenbach was betrayed by his CinC. It’s my understanding that the commander is responsible for his troops.
Does anyone know if he needs help bringing his case? I could kick in a 5. Or do equal rights not count for te gays?
Some rules are meant to be broken, especially if they are intentionally set up to oppress a whole class of people to please an ignorant “majority”. It just takes enough brave souls to stand up and change the world. It is near the tipping point. I am glad someone are putting the dem’s great leader’s feet to the fire.
Amen.
This rules are rules stuff is crap. It is still a form of discrimination. If Lt. Col. Fehrenbach hadn’t been in some of the places he was asked to be in, many more troop would be dead. I think that may mean something to their families and I don’t think they’d be worrying about the private life of the guy that saved their son or daughter’s life. He made and difference and is a decorated hero. Enough said. Get over it - I’m from a military family and I even know this is “rule” is garbage.
Ahem - the military is allowed to discriminate on anything except for race (and only if you are an American) - too young, too old, flat feet, fat, skinny, dumb, crosseyed, 4-fingered, speech impediment, height, education, criminal history, etc…. are reasons to discrimintate - and even if you were “born that way”
Amen!!!!
Many of the solders that have been kicked out, it wasn’t their intention of telling anyone. I’m sure it was the same for the Lt. Col., and it was the right thing to do to stand up and make people see how wrong this is. It is not an easy secret to keep, I don’t think people who are not gay will ever understand how difficult it is to remain in the closet and to lie to everyone. All it takes is one person to say something and the military will investigate whether or not someone is gay, and they will find out. In some cases they have let it slide, but didn’t in the Lt. Col. case. The worst this is that in most cases how they find out some one is gay is from there personal life and has nothing to do with what they do while on active duty. Maybe something as simple and harmless as being in a relationship with someone, how can anyone even the military hold that against anyone.
If that is the case, he “didn’t tell” and he did not break the rules. I am not being anti-gay here, just pro military. I am sick to death of everybody kicking the military while they are down in the public opinion. I have a lot of military family friends. They never get a fair shake anymore it seems. But to my point, all I want to say… and I am out is that the military is no place for activism. There is no room for that, the stakes are too high.
The military is no place to institute discrimination, either. The time to change and admit the rule is wrong is now and not fifty years from now.
Nope - Docelder is right -
No wonder so many people won’t sign up to serve in the military. With us occupying other countries, it shouldn’t be an issue of discrimination. The military needs officers, interpreters, and soldiers irregardless of their sexual orientation or any other factor.
It is incredibly dumb to fire someone, during this time of conflict when we need every single military member we can get, to kick someone out, especially after 18 years of service.
For example, the military is in dire need of translators, especially those who speak Arabic, yet they fired one of their Arabic translators (Stephen Benjamin) under “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” Arabic linguist and West Point grad, Dan Choi, was also fired for being gay.
Shouldn’t national security come before such a ridiculous policy? If we have no one doing the jobs, because we kicked those who could serve out for being gay, who is left to volunteer?
Yes, Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is a law, but Obama has the ability to order the military to stop investigating claims of service members being gay. He can also invoke the right to keep members of the military he feels are paramount to national security under federal law (10 U.S.C. §12305) gay or not.
Sorry - Obama cannot order the military to break the law. That’s called an unlawful order and will not be followed
Some of us fight for all that America can be, as well as all that it is.
DOCELDER
is
not wrong or right
He simply detests Human Rights and finds them irrelevant as they’re nothing but “staged martyrdom” in his mind.
In that case, Joan of Arc, Susan Anthony, Gloria Steinem just wasted their bloody time staging their phony “martyrdom”, eh? J e e s u s!!!!!
Lt.Col. Fehrenback is A TRUE HERO! and a Human Being who deserves EQUAL TREATMENT!!! OBAMA SHOULD SHUT HIS MOUTH IF HE DIDN’T MEAN TO OFFER HUMAN RIGHTS TO COL. FEHRENBACK AS PART OF THE DEAL OF GETTING ELECTED. what a JERK!
I would ask for a refund. But get in line, because 95% of Americans are ahead of you in line for their tax cuts. He told everybody what they wanted to hear and promised everything to everybody along the way. Nearly everybody on this board said he was lying.
But for 18 years he had equal treatment. What happened was predictable. I never said his martyrdom was phony, he is feeling the result of it, and it is real. I said it was staged. I also said I hope he does not regret it, but I am sure he already does. Why not after 18 years, just wait two more and retire with honor. Take your pension and lobby for change? What is with all the activism?
Are you an idiot? What ‘activism’ was involved? He was outed by a co-worker to his boss, he never ‘acted’ gay and certaintly didn’t go around flaunting it to his co-workers. The fact is that he is simply another victim of witchhunting thanks to DADT.
You might try reading for a change and learning the facts instead of acting like it’s all Fehrenbach’s fault that he got the boot, dumbass.
“Acting” gay? He is on national T.V. saying he is. What are you talking about? I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but 18 years ago, there was no DADT. So, as far as following the rules for 18 years, that might be a stretch of sorts. Anyway, the guy had security clearance… no?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/16/AR2006031601787.html
It’s my understanding that he was outed involuntarily, although he hasn’t talked about the details of the situation. It’s obvious he’s been very careful throughout his career to comply policy.
typo: comply with policy
Because he wanted to make a difference.
Please remember that LtCol Fehrenbach may have been outed or ratted out and when confronted with a direct question chose not to lie. I haven’t heard the details of exactly how the investigation of him began but this is a very common scenario.
No one knows if this man was decidedly gay when he took his oath. He followed the law for 18 years by staying silent: HE didn’t tell. Someone else told: outted by a civilian acquaintance. This law allowed a civilian to step in and ruin this man’s career. Since when did the military give this kind of power of its service members?
No one knows if this man was decidedly gay when he took his oath. He followed the law for 18 years by staying silent: HE didn’t tell. Someone else told: outted by a civilian acquaintance. This law allowed a civilian to step in and ruin this man’s career. Since when did the military give this kind of power over its service members?
No one knows if this man was decidedly gay when he took his oath. He followed the law for 18 years by staying silent: HE didn’t tell. Someone else told: outted by a civilian acquaintance. This law allowed a civilian to step in and ruin this man’s career. Since when did the military give civilians this kind of power over its service members?
Dear Docelder,
I like your post because the Lt Col’s case, and apparently his personal life, was exactly that a gamble. He is an Officer and knows the rules. He thought that no one would “out” him and they did…. bad relationship management - I guess??Additionally, Officers have to have the courage to lead others and to do the right things. In this case gambling away not only the Pension but his integrity and all the other things that this Lt Col worked for are gone, so in this sense the gamble is clearly lost.
Whether right or wrong you gotta wonder was “coming out” the only thing that he was hiding? Officers are taught honesty, integrity, clearly they need not live a lie whether private or not. Unfortunately, this Lt Col did not have the courage to be himself for 18 + years and that just did not seem to work for him, no matter how unfortunate that may seem.
Future reality: As for the policy of DADT, who knows the outcome? Maybe this will be a classic story of he champions a cause, writes the book and then the Pension is not a factor. I think that DADT will be repealed in time along with other social policy evolution processes. I think this is just a matter of time just as in other Civil Liberty type issues.
he didn’t… he was outed by a third party (in another interview he says this)
If Obama had a pair, he would step out if front of this matter and execute his powers as POTUS to rectify this injustice. I don’t know how one does that, but surely he could do something now.
but sadly..he does not have a pair.
If Obummer had a pair of…boobs…he would have done the right thing a long time ago and not be forced into it by Hillary’s initiative at the State….He’s a mealymouthed Ventroloquist Dummy the size of Reagan’s peabrain….
Did Col. Fehrenbach out himself or did someone do that for him? Same with the woman that was mentioned [I understand her partner was non-military]. If neither of these people stepped forward before the fact then why and how were the investigations started? On rumor and innuendo? Jealousy, perhaps–knock out the competition.
In the long run, the whole subject is depressing. We keep driving a stake through our own best interests as a nation. Throwing competent, cabable people over the side is not only stupid but self-defeating.
And I don’t think the gay community can anticipate any help from the Obama administration. Just more fence straddling.
That’s what Rachel did not address - how the Air Force became aware of Lt. Col. Fehrenbach’s being gay. But if he continued to work all that time after it came out (!) that he was, that in and of itself is in direct contradiction to the “discipline and good order” argument.
Lt. Choi pointed out that as an officer, he is duty bound to stand up against unfair, immoral laws or commands, hence why he has spoken out. But again, none of these people spoke out BEFORE they were brought to trial on these charges, as near as I can tell. They have been speaking out after the fact, trying to keep to keep their jobs.
Once again, I have to say, I cannot watch Rachel talk abt these issues without getting angry. She was SUCH a cheerleader for Obama, and not very nice abt Hillary. Hillary is WORLDS apart from Obama on these issues - DADT, Federal benefits, things like that, yet these folks supported Obama. So, they deserve what they got - a man who will do NOTHING that doesn’t somehow help HIM. And we are not a powerful enough lobby to threaten him, so why bother?
And not to keep harping, but he has chosen an ACTIVELY ANTI-GAY MAN to be head of the DNC - what in the WORLD makes these folks think ANYTHING is going to change given that???
Yes Amy! I whole-heartedly agree with you. Emperor Ego continues to be all talk and nothing else.
This man served his nation honorably and with distinction. Sadly we can not say the same about the military and the country he so bravley and selflessly protected.
Lt. Col. Fehrenbach is not anti-military he is pro-military. These times are not down times for the military, such as they are being kicked when they’re down. That was VietNam, it is not the case now. This issue of DADT is the only pock on the military, but it is becoming a cancer with the dismissals of those who have demonstrated exemplary and heroic and dedicated service to our country their entire careers proudly keeping our country safe. So we have weasels like Obama or we have heros like Fehrenbach, I know who I trust to keep America safe. It is so shortsighted to discriminate and it is utterly shameful for the government, the Pentagon and Obama to persist with this policy.
The policy is wrong. At the time it was put into play, I felt it was a step forward–a compromise. The milistary now needs to move forward and also pusch O to do something about this. Defending the military’s following of rules is, in my mind, silly. They’ve had the advantage of all this man’s service–as well as the service of all the others recently who have been fired. The military needs to face down the anti-gay idiots and say they need these brave people.
And O needs to make good his promises and talk to the military about this and do what it takes to get this policy reviewed and changed–NOW.
As for Rachel M–it’s good she’s shining light on this travesty. But I won’t like her until she says, “I am sorry for being such a suck-up for Obama.”
My pesonal belief is that O doesn’t want there to be any possibility that the rumors about his own sexuality might resurface. What a joke we have as a “leader.”
Normally I don’t participate in these gay discussions because one will readily be accused of being anti-gay and I am not. I remember the discussions and arbitrary actions of the military before this policy (DADT) was instituted under Bill Clinton’s watch. The great compromise was for the military to not ask about sexual proclivities and for the person to “not tell” their proclivities. Both of these individuals “told” without being asked. Their justification was that they were tired of living a lie. As to the discussion about the circumstances surrounding “whether they told”, that should have been bought out during the Maddow interview. BE WARNED: THE MSM LIES BY OMISSION IN THAT THEY TELL THE PEOPLE ONLY HALF THE STORY!
Gay people don’t look to Obama for any help. He has lied to every group that supported him including AAs. One of his biggest lies was accusing the Clintons of being racist. Another was standing in the pulpit of a black church and claiming his parents met at the Selma march in AL and shortly afterward, he was born when in fact he was born 4 years earlier. The cheer-leading media refused to inform the people of the ball-faced lies he told throughout the primary and GE campaigns.
I personally know the men in the Army unit that Lt Col Fehrenback saved on April 3, 2003. Those men where able to all return home without loosing one single soldier due to his heroism. The men on the ground could have cared less his sexual orientation that day. All they wanted to know was that he was able to give them air coveage and hit his target. Those same men assured me that in 2005 they would return my husband to me very much alive which they did. If it were not for him my husband and his brothers in arms may not be here. I am prior service and the wife of a 22 year active duty Army soldier. We could care less who he sleeps with at night and shares his memories with. He made sure that 3/7 Infantry men returned home to make memories with their families and he has never even met all of us. We thank him, and stand behind him, give him early retirement options or let him finish his job. He has earned it and Ft Stewart, Ga the Marne Division stands behind him.
Thank you for sharing this. I don’t have much to add to the discussion, so many others have said such eloquent things. I will just say, though, as a straight woman and one who worked on Obama’s campaign, I am disappointed by his non-response to the problems faced by LGBT in the U.S., thus not fulfilling his promises.
I would also like to say to those that say that the military is no place for activism, “there is too much at stake”, I would like to say that there is too much at stake to not speak out. How did women get into the military? Would those people say now that they should have never been allowed?
[...] on our behalf (I have written about these folks just recently, and SusanUnPC posted an incredible video of Lt. Col. Fehrenbach. They want to continue to serve their country even though their country is treating them like [...]
“Don’t ask…don’t tell” allows for investigations to take place even if allegations are just based on hearsay, gossip, or suspicions from an anonymous party.
The “closeted” military member can very easily be “outed” by others. Some can even be “falsely” outed and kicked out(ie…the effeminate male or tomboy-female or confused college experimenter) so long as there is at least one corroborating story or witness (even if from one’s past).
Lt Col Fehrenback was confronted with the question of his sexuality because someone outed him. The government then investigated him and ASKED HIM (whether directly or indirectly) if he was gay. What part of “don’t ask” did the government follow?
Lt Col Fehrenback is truly a brave man. Primarily because of his heroism from his tours of duty…but also because of his courage in facing his current adversity.
A final note, the local AFOSI (office of special investigations) could have very easily “dropped the issue” upon getting the “allegation” from the accuser. His chain of command could have also said they weren’t interested in pursuing a conviction. But, I’m sure, the OSI convinced everyone that there “was more at stake” and that there was ample evidence and the potential for threats of “blackmail”…thereby affecting the mission and our national security and blah..blah…blah. And by the way, sodomy is still on the books in the UCMJ (to include oral sex)…so there’s the potential for criminal activity as well.
My unfortunate guess is that a “jilted” lover or homophobe outed him.
Here’s hoping appeals and administrative bureaucracy slows the process down and gets him close to the 20-yr point. Oh wait, I almost forgot…there’s actually a “special process” to expedite “don’t ask don’t tell” violations as opposed to the lengthy appeals processes for real crimes. I’ve rambled enough for today.
Hi,
I’ve posted about him on my Milspouse blog, “The Kitchen Dispatch” Just click on the link above and you’ll be taken it to it.
I have something personally at stake in this whole stinking issue. My hubby is a soldier and he relies on gutsy guys like LTC Fahrenbach to save his hide. It’s not like the Armed Services has a lot of F15E pilots with loads of combat experience that they can lose even one.
So I’ve gone ahead and have signed the petition on the Service Members Legal Defense fund link.
It’s clear to me being ex military that the discrimination against gays and lesbian has its roots in hatred, homophobia, bigotry, and ignorance made by policy makers in our nation’s capital. Don’t forget for one minute there plenty of jack asses in the military who throw around the terms dyke and faggot. The people who are opposed to bigotry and intolerance tend to keep a lower profile, I suppose because they perceive they’re in the minority - the group of people who doesn’t throw around language of ignorance and intolerance. That being said, this policy and law are borne of ignorance, intolerance, and hatred. That the Commander in Chief won’t issue an EO to stop prosecuting outed military members is one of the most pathetic non-gestures I’ve known in years. I vow to protest, demonstrate, fund raise, and to take all other peaceful measures to expose the politicians who support the current policy - so that people will have the opportunity to think twice before voting the same people back into office who don’t want to eliminate discrimination and hatred. I will do everything possible in my lifetime - peacefully - to contribute to the eradication of this ignorant law and policy, enacted by hateful, ignorant, homophobes.
I have witnessed The Uniform Code of Military Justice. It is truly not uniform. If this were
a 4 star General or Admiral it would be ignored.
This man is a hero who has served his country
with distinction. It is pathetic that the United States and Turkey are the only original members
of NATO that ban gay men and women from the military. Yet in show of hypocrisy the U.S. complained about human rights in Turkey in 2008
DADT is truly absurd.
DADT is more than just keeping your mouth shut on base. i had tenents (two navy guys) break their lease on the one bedroom apt that they share because another military guy moved into the building and they were terrified that this guy would rat them out. its a small four plex all one bedroom units so they figured it would only be a matter of time before they were found out.
i cant imagine they hell it must be like always looking over your shoulder. do we live in a gestapo state?
As a 20-year veteran, I’m disgusted with the havoc wrought by DADT. We’re throwing out patriots willing to deny their sexuality in order to fight for our country, instead preferring those who happen to be sleeping with the “right” people. Give me a break. Folks getting skewered by this policy are being outed by peers who are bent out of shape because of their peers out-promoting them.
DADT is a stupid policy pushed by people too cowardly to serve themselves.
You people need to open your eyes to 2 MAJOR issues here. 1: The most important, the Military sets rules and regulations that ALL must follow. If you break the rules then you pay the consequence. If that doesn’t happen the military would find it IMPOSSIBLE to maintain discipline…
2: Almost all of the current military members DO NOT WANT GAYS IN THE MILITARY. Do not go off of what you here in the liberal media.
Col Fehrenbach broke the rules…good ridance. His comment today when he said that all his people support him being gay…NOT true! Maybe the handful of people under his chain of command. Not the rest of the Air Force…
To Edward Palasthy: Thanks Ed for that summary of the military. But, as a Vietnam veteran that served with the 82nd Airborne, I have a different point of view. Today, as opposed to 1993, when DADT was proposed, 75% of Americans want to repeal DADT because they feel it hinders the security of their nation. And, since the population at large, not the military, pays for the military, they should have some say in the matter. Why do think that a civilian rather than a military person is put in charge of the military? It is because our founders knew that it was a bad idea to put the military in charge of conducting wars. The military is simply a reflection and composite of America, and since it is run by a civilian, it should refect the opinions of all Americans.
I am a 22 year Air Force veteran and vehemently disagree. Generally civilians do not have a clue concerning military operations. The reason you had to go to Vietnam and we stayed there so long, was because civilians were running the war. Mr. Obama may be a civilian technically, but he is Commander-in-Chief of our military forces. He has special insight into military operations which civilians do not have or need. We transform civilians into Marines, Soldiers and Airmen in basic military training so they can handle military life. Thus they are military and not civilian. We absolutely need the president and congress to advise on the political objectives of war, but please stay out of the mechanics of the implementation. We have excellent Generals and leaders who have hundreds of years of corporate military knowledge. We do not need another Vietnam!
[...] on the forum celebrating those whom I feel are true American Heroes: folks like Daniel Choi and Victor Fehrenbach and thousands upon thousands of other gays in the military who are forced to live a lie in order to [...]
[...] -Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach was a decorated pilot who has served in the Air Force for 18 years. After having sex with a man he met on a dating site, he was accused of assault and rape. In order to clear himself of the rape charge, he admitted to police that the sex was consensual. The police, in turn, shared that information with his employer: the Air Force. Now, he is denied the same retirement benefits that a soldier of his caliber deserves. [...]
This shows me the air force is much more interested in being possibly politically correct than in defending the country.
Lt. col Ferenbach is a national treasure and as a veteran I thank him for his service. However he is like a baby being thrown out with the bath water.
Really raw deal from a sck and wounded country.
This shows me the air force is much more interested in being possibly politically correct than in defending the country.
Lt. col Ferenbach is a national treasure and as a veteran I thank him for his service. However he is like a baby being thrown out with the bath water.
Really raw deal from a sick and wounded country.