Jesse Ventura Bodyslams Cheney and His Torture Cohorts
By SusanUnPC on May 25, 2009 at 12:40 PM in Torture
“You give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I’ll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.”
You tell ‘em, Jesse! Former Minnesota governor Jesse Ventura is hitting the nationwide media circuit and waterboarding proponents on the right. As Jesse knows from his SEAL training, a trained interrogator can, through coercive methods and torture like waterboarding, get anyone to say anything, true or not.
First, there’s this from The Seattle Post-Intelligencer’s blog (and, oh yes, there’s more from other great sources below):
Jesse Ventura body slams waterboarding proponents
Former professional wrestler and Minnesota Gov. Jesse “The Body” Ventura is taking on all challengers in the debate over waterboarding. Ventura, who was waterboarded as part of his military training, has been hitting the talk show circuit to denounce waterboarding.
Benjamin Sarlin at The Daily Beast writes about Ventura’s recent smackdown of Elizabeth Hasselbeck on “The View”:
“If waterboarding’s OK, why don’t we let our police do it to suspects so we can learn what they know?” (Ventura) asked. “We only seem to waterboard Muslims. … Have we waterboarded anyone else?”
Can you believe Jesse said that? WOW!!!
Well, I had to go looking for mo’ from Jesse, and found this YouTube:
“Jesse Ventura: You Give Me a Water Board, Dick Cheney and One Hour”
::::::::
The top quote is from the blog of Grant Lawrence.
(List Price: $27.95 - Your Price: $15.47)
By Sarah Palin (Release date: November 17. 2009)
Oh, please don’t encourage Ventura to speak or get back into politics. He was my Governor and he is insane. He took our surplus and pissed it away and MN has been broke ever since. Do not encourage people like him. Would we need anymore of these types who want our country bankrupt? No, no, no. Jesse Ventura needs to go sit quietly in his home and rest his head injuries. Ventura was the mistake equivalent to the Obama mistake, only he was MN’s worst mistake.
Ventura may have been a mistake for Gov in MN, but he has a point regarding waterboarding. Yes or no Politicalidentitycrisis?
Jesse Ventura needs to just down and shut up….I couldn’t care less what he has to say and I doubt whether Cheney cares.
One reason that Jesse Ventura’s voice is important is that he has a lot of fans across the country — people who don’t typically read blogs like ours (i.e., NOT people like you and me) — and his is yet one more voice pointing out that waterboarding is torture and ineffective.
I have heard him speak a couple of times and when Jesse Ventura is angry he makes Rush L look like a kitten. Jesse can cut down people like there is no tommorrow. Im not really sure of him as a comentator or media person or even politician.
From what I have seen there have been very few and I mean very few celeb politicians that people think did a decent job in their office …
Ronald Reagan is one of few that comes to mind as a good celeb politician that even many Democrats look up to. As a democrat I still look back at what Reagan and think Good Job Ronnie.
Reagan set the stage for every right wing debacle– that’s good? I certainly don’t look up to him– I didn’t vote for Reagan, any Bush, or Obama, so I lost a lot, but I lost well.
As a registered democrat from 1962 until May 31, 2008, I too have lost a lot but for the most part I certainly agree with you in “lost well.”
Ventura makes more sense than Chain-ee.
Why is it that guys who were tortured like McCain or went through waterboarding as part of SEAL training like Ventura speak against it, and draftdodgers like Chain-ee and Limbaugh are strong proponents of it?
Ventura speaks the truth loud and clear and he is…’insane’?
In the land of the blind…
IMHO both “truth” and “insane” are in the eye of the beholder!
Having never experienced waterboarding, I cannot factually say that it is indeed torture but I would be inclined to accept the word of those who have experienced it (i.e., Ventura).
As for “torture”, I find what the Usurper is doing to our beloved country also fits into that definition (”to afflict with extreme anguish of body or mind”).
Don, buddy. Do you really think that you HAVE to endure something like waterboarding to ‘know’ that its torture? Geneva Conventions and EVERYONE agreed that it is torture before Bush/Cheney/Rice decided to goon up our military interrogators. Even during WWII our military didn’t torture captured Nazi soldiers, and you can bet they may have wanted to at times. But we were able to glean the truth out of them through structured interrogation technique, and not false confessions. The Israelis learned that torture is bad all around through their experience with it. When Dick Cheny is brought up on trial with Rice for their crimes it will all be clear to even the most conservative citizens that it was wrong.
Clear, concise comment, avrobel. Thank you.
If you ever watched your Governor give a press conference while he was wearing a pink feather boa around his neck, I think you might consider that he was insane. Jesse Ventura does have brain injuries. Watch the uncontrolable shaking as he talks.
Pre Ventura-MN has a 350 million dollar surplus, good schools, low property taxes, low unemployment.
Post Ventura- the surplus was gone and a huge deficit in it’s place. Property taxes quadrupled and the schools are a mess and get no funding and unemployment jumped. Unemployment was not what it is now, but clearly Ventura was not doing his job as Governor. He was too busy having Jonny Lang concerts and wild parties at the Governor’s manion. His kids even trashed the place. It is much like what Obama is doing. Party central 24/7, while the people lose everything.
But yes, if you think Ventura is so wonderful, why don’t you let him Govern your state. Hell, why don’t you make him President? He probably isn’t as corrupt as Obama so it would be a slight step up.
That is part of the trouble in America today..folks who put too much stock in what “Celebrities” have to say. Jesse Ventura is loony tunes.
I sure wish Jesse would stop claiming he was a SEAL, he wasn’t. He was UDT and there is a huge difference.
http://cursor.org/stories/seal_or_udt.htm
From his Wikipedia bio:
So THERE!!
This subject is bringing the bat sh!t crazies out of the woodwork.
Ventura’s question needs answering. –
Jesse ever in a SEAL Team?
“Oh, no. Spent his entire time in Team 12. Never had a SEAL NEC.”
Could you explain about an NEC, what it means?
“Means Navy enlisted classification. It’s a code all enlisted guys have that tells what their warfare specialty is. UDT guys were 5321s and SEALs were 5326s. Had to serve in a SEAL Team for at least six months before you qualified as a 26.”
Jesse ever in the shit like you or Stony?
“Oh, no. At least not that I heard of, and I probably would have known if he’d been in anything serious. But I don’t hold that against him. He was a good teammate. Just a little loco.”
-Art Ruiz, UDT 12 Teammate
Page 3 of previously linked article. Ventura’s PR can manipulate Wikipedia all they want, unless he had the NEC designator 5326, he’s not a SEAL.
FROM LARRY JOHNSON:
KSS, YOU ARE A COMPLETE DUMB ASS. IF HE SPENT HIS ENTIRE TIME IN TEAM 12, THEN BY DEFINITION HE IS A SEAL. TEAM 12 IS A SEAL UNIT MORON. VENTURA GRADUATED FROM BUDS TRAINING, A PRE-REQUISITE TO BE A SEAL. THERE IS NO REASONING WITH CLOWNS LIKE YOU.
So the whole SEAL / UDT thing was just to throw normal folk off? They had different designations for reason.
Well, KSS, whatever acronym you use, he did serve and that is a huge difference when compared to the former Vice President, now isn’t it?
true, ventura served and deserves our thanks. however he was also a “wrestler” and all that goes with it. it is called putting on a show which he did. he also did that as governor too. many who supported him became disgruntled for reason i assume.
the main complaints many of us have is not that torture and shouldn’t be condemned. it is the way it is being used by the democrats who by the way silently supported it. they never stood up to be counted. in my few that makes them craven cowards all of them. so when the oh so righteous sally forth spouting off please excuse me if i am not impressed.
Kindly don’t link me with those boobs, stodgie. I think the democrats who knew should suffer the same fate as those who ordered it as conspirators after the fact. This might also be a way to clean house of some of the more disreputable members of Congress, both parties included.
berfle, i am talking about the democrats in power who allowed this to happen. many typical americans who considered themselves democrats of course didn’t know. that was assumed, but then smile you know about how assumptions can get one in trouble.
I agree with you on that. It would be nice to find some means of removing them from power.
true, ventura served and deserves our thanks. however he was also a “wrestler” and all that goes with it. it is called putting on a show which he did. he also did that as governor too. many who supported him became disgruntled for reason i assume.
the main complaints many of us have is not that torture shouldn’t be condemned. it is the way it is being used by the democrats who by the way silently supported it. they never stood up to be counted. in my view that makes them craven cowards, all of them. so when the oh so righteous sally forth spouting off please excuse me if i am not impressed.
KSS,
You are flat out misinformed. Jesse was a SEAL, a west coast SEAL. I know guys who served with him. Folks I run into at places like Little Creek Virginia and MacDill Air Force Base.
Ventura is a conspiracy nut who thinks 911 was an inside job.
Cheney is a conspiracy nut who thinks 911 was in Iraq job.
Bingo! LOL!
it was.
Cheney really got to you socialists, didn’t he?
He really struck a nerve.
Seriously, Ventura is a buffoon. This is your answer to Cheney’s responsible criticism? You call THIS a serious response.
Having to listen to Ventura? Worse than water boarding.
You socialists need to prepare for the day when people finally see what you are about. It will not be pretty when this day comes.
Ventura may be a buffoon, but he is right in that Cheney would wilt like the pansy that he is if he were to be waterboarded. I’m sure that an armchair warrior like you would wilt even faster. That you find the 5-deferment coward to be a hero speaks volumes about you, double dumb, and makes you as gullible as any obamabot I’ve ever seen on this website.
Keep em comin Berfle I can always use a chuckle.
Good Memorial day to all and thanks to those real heroes.
Good Memorial Day to you as well, AC. And you are spot on about the real heroes and just how much we owe them.
Is there any other important topic that this blog willl cover soon besides Dick Cheney?
Cheney has put his neck out in the media lately, so he’s fair game.
And if you want to start a different topic, I’m sure NQ would welcome your well thought out article. So, quit bitchin’ and try making your own post sometime.
Moreover, check the damn post list. There’s a bunch of other topics lately.
Cheney is certainly scrambling for dear life now that he can’t hide behind his former office. The more he drones, the less believable he becomes.
F/U Ventura. I’ll take Cheney any day on the affairs that concern the safety of our nation. You are bluster and bullshit. You make as much sense as the 5 & Dime logic of that ‘look-at-me-I’m-so-folksy-and-cute’ Garrison Keillor. Every time he wants a laugh, he makes a dig at Republicans, pulls on the cuckoo clock chain as a signal and his audience dutifully responds…and now they’re going to send us the cuckoo clock itself, Al Franken. Oy!!
What is it about old right-wing authoritarian males, prone to paranoia and aggressive acting out, that provides so many with a deep sense of safety and security?
People fitting Cheney’s profile are generally the ones responsible for our collective sense that we need to be protected in the first place.
say indiana dem, i note you are ignoring the typical average american who can be any age. not all of them or us are right wing authoritarian males. i showed up early expecting to be a democrat the rest of my life and loyally support the party. what a dang shame, the democrats didn’t show up and support us. in fact we were called names and told we weren’t needed. so climb off your high horse. you look silly up there.
Right-wing Authoritarianism isn’t actually a political or ideological descriptive. It’s a specific psychological profile:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_Authoritarianism
So interesting that you would use Wikipedia as a source for maligning the right:
“‘Lib-pedia’? Anti-Conservative Bias Rampant At Wikipedia”
http://newsbusters.org/node/10615
Well, there’s always that totally unbiased version of reality presented by Conservapedia:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page
Lots of luck with their search engine. One can always use their All Pages link–where for some odd reason they’ve alphabetized important historical personages by their first names:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Special:AllPages
There’s all of the unvarnished truth any right-thinking American could possibly need, all conveniently assembled in one place!
75,131 pages, in fact.
They’ve even got a lengthy article exposing the extraordinary liberal bias of Wikipedia!
Difference is, I don’t think “conservapedia” is making any attempt to misrepresent themselves as an unbiased source.
Since you seem interested in psychological profiles, here is a nice profile of liberals:
…that we need to be protected in the first place?
You idiot. Tell that to the people who were on the airliners and in the towers. Moron.
The terrorists were motivated by different people, but those people likely fit the same profile.
You’re missing the point.
…that we need to be protected in the first place??
Tell that to the people on the air liners and in the towers. You moron.
You should watch who you are calling a moron since you apparently conveniently forget or didn’t know that it was Cheney who decided to dismantle the counterterrorism office in the National Security Council prior to 9/11. Perhaps you ought to give HIM some of the blame. I won’t wait for that epiphany to strike you anytime soon, however.
In May of 2001, Bush instructed Cheney to form a counter terrorism task force. The task force was never formed. Cheney was too busy contemplating bringing Democracy and Haliburten to the Middle East.
……but mostly Haliburton.
I think it might be small penises.
and even smaller brains.
Does that mean you’re a size queen?
That is so inane, but befitting and consistent with your posts.
Probably the fact that they are willing to do more than “letter writing” to stop an enemy that aims to kill us all.
Is this the new site for disgruntled Freepers? Anyone who thinks Cheney even belongs in the human race has got some serious mental problems. Ventura may or may not be insane, but he speaks the truth. OTOH, Cheney, by his actions and CYA moves of late, is obviously NUTS. In addition, he’s a devious LIAR and is responsible for thousands of dead American soldiers courtesy of his lying the US into a needless, reckless and illegal war. He is one of the most despicable human beings ever to inhabit planet earth.
donjo, put it where the sun doesn’t shine. we are disgruntled former democrats who don’t like being ripped off, lied to, pissed on ,etc. so scat!
Thanks for the kind words. You claim to be a former democrat who admires Cheney? Well, it seems he’s not the only one who is batshit crazy.
donjo, you sure do love to hurl insults without knowing who you hurl them at i see! i am former democrat who never loved cheney. what a silly attempt to isult! geez!
Oh, donjo, I am so happy and excited that you’ve got everything all worked out, so overjoyed. You moron, do you think Pelosi or Frank would have protected you and your family? Not a rat efffingg chance! They’re forever busy giving away working people’s hard earned income to worthless assholes who place bling, cell phones and fashion above personal responsibility. Yeah, you’re with the right crowd.
I don’t want any of those @&#)!&* protecting my family. That’s not their job. However, it looks like Chimpy/Cheny did a smash-up job on 9/11, doesnt’ it? Somehow people seem to forget this; oh, and what about the 4300 dead Americans in Iraq because of these two’s lies and deceit? At what point will YOU stop looking at the president and congress as your daddy?
You GO boy!!
Nice rant donjo, not sure what you meant about the freepers and not an issue but I agree with your characterizations of Chee-nee
What I’m sayin’ is that some of the posters who are Dick (Cheney) lovers seem like they got lost on the road to Freeperville.
Saw this in a UK blog and just had to share it:
The term “Obama-boarding” has sprung up here in the colonies, describing the act of tying one up and subjecting one to the interminably vacuous telepromptered speeches of our Dear Leader until one cries out in anguish.
Great one Sue ROFL ROFL literally….
Oh gawd! That’s too cruel!
i.d rater have my fingernails ripped out with a pair of rusty pliers.
LMAO. I’ll just bet he’ll be beating his gums frantically in lieu of action within the next 48 hours after NK carried out that underground test.
As we watch our enemies acquire the means for blackmail against the western world, I look back to another time when hero’s who kept a nation safe were vilified,scorned and thrown out of power.
Churchill suffered the same fate as Cheney as did Truman.
Even though Churchill won the war for England he was thrown out as a conservative as a new socialist utopia was born for which we now see the bitter fruits.
Bush and Cheney like Churchill and Truman may have been disasters on many fronts but all had the cunning and skill to confront all enemies despite a vocal and naive opposition.
Except…
…Cheney sat “idle” as the real threat of terror spread. (His priority was on China the first months of his admin, hence having Rice aboard.)
…Cheney DID NOT go after those who attacked us, he went after his own priorities of Iraq.
…Cheney DID NOT get OBL.
…Cheney DID NOT WIN the war on terror for ANYBODY.
…Cheney was VP, NOT the Prez.
…Cheney is NO Churchill, nor a Truman. And no amount of “revisionism” will make him so.
Bash oZero to your heart’s content, SM, but to say Cheney is our savior is as naive as any oBot’s adulation for their der leader.
The lock-step supporters of Cheney are as bad as the Obamabots. Their Cheney-and-Bush-kept-us-”safe” hogwash is just as mindless as the Obamabot’s hopey-changey mantra.
berfle, the shame of it is the democrats are trying to use this for their own partisan purposes and deflect us from very important national concerns. the democrats are part of the problem and not part of the solution. by throwing ventua, cheney, and others into the mix we all involved with torture, torture, torture all day and all night just like the media blitzes us. franky, i have heard enough. i along with most americans never supported torture. the time to speak out was years ago. so where were all these important people? where was ventura? where was pelosi? that is the point i am trying to make here.
I am a former democrat and don’t like what they have come to represent, as I’ve said ad nauseam and I won’t ever be going back. However, stodgie, that does not give license to Cheney to lie through his teeth about a sorry state of affairs he was the mastermind of. That doesn’t give the bushbots license to lie, either.
An extremist is an extremist and the Cheney supporters are as bad as the supporters of That One because they refuse to acknowledge any faults in their Anointed Leaders.
Ferd,
I started the hate Cheney club back in 89..
So What!
Now it’s Cheney vs Obama
Cheney won and I’m glad that Obama gets it!
It still might be too late to correct the appeasement strategy offered up by this President and the apologists behind him as we have witnessed already the defiant but predicted actions of aggression by our enemies.
Obama and his self righteous followers have put themselves on a pedestal of certain defeat.
True, true..but they won’t admit to it being their fault. When they fail, it will be because they were let down by the people who just didn’t understand how high-minded Obummer is and didn’t do as they were told. It won’t be their fault, it will be ours. You just wait and see. When Obummer fails, it won’t be his fault, it will be because the rest of us weren’t good enough for him. Gag.
good points berfle! in a round about way that is what i am saying also. we need to get about the business of running the country and the two extreme sides don’t serve any purpose.
I’m with you on that, stodgie. I have reconciled myself to the fact that our “President” will serve at least one term. And you’re spot on about the business of running the country. I just hope That One listens to the experts, shuts up once in a while, and stops pandering to every group that comes hat-in-hand to the WH.
That is exactly why Obama should have never opened this can of worms. It is exactly why Obama needs to go forward and quit trying to destroy the Bush, the GOP and anyone that is not on Obama’s side.
Remeber guys we are still at war and we still have many many men and women fighting over there. This is not the time to start opening up what we had been doing and are trying to do.
The ones that will probably end up getting hurt are our fighting men and women when all our war information is opened up for our enemies to see and use, just so that Obama can show the world how great he is.
Ok maybe I didnt vote for him, but I really wanted him to do some good for our country. Yet the more Obama says and does the more egotistical I realize that Obama and his people are.
My concern is the projection of American power in the world. Up till now every President has known what it means and requires to protect the American sphere of influence.
The Iraq war is a brilliant strategy for positioning the United States firmly in the middle of the emerging conflicts that threaten world destruction.
I’m beyond amazed that nobody seems to get this fact and you would rather fiddle while Obama allows the Iranians to becomes the dominate regional player with nukes along with their terrorist buddies in Pakistan.
Up till now we have not seen countries blackmail the united states into defeat.
Just wait a few more years!
But you can’t just say, “I don’t like Obama, so now I’m gonna like Cheney.”
IMHO the Iraq Invasion/Occupation/War is a piss poor strategy to influence the ME. The Green Zone will now forever stand as a monolithic symbol of how the US has “meddled” in what many there see as their own affairs. (Ex. Us using Saudi soil for GWI). And now with thousands of innocents dead, we’ve made, for all intents and purposes, a whole generation of people will NOW hate the US.
And when we pull out of the surrounding areas, there will be sectarian violence as the struggle to gain control will reemerge among the regional/religious powers.
When the money dries up, the blood will flow.
No one is suggesting we “fiddle while oZero lets democracy burn.” But to hold up the War Council’s heavy handed approached just because you don’t like oZero’s action/lack thereof is a weak argument, IMHO. It’s not that I think you personally are stupid. My parents have always thought like you’re now thinking. So, I’ve been immersed in this fear. I get it. But I think it’s wrong for our country, especially when it’s been perverting into things like torture-as-the-moral-norm.
The blackmail that could happen is, “The Great United State of America has tortured, so now we can do with reckless abandon.”
So, again, please don’t go back to what didn’t work just because you hate oZero. Saying Cheney mopped up oZero doesn’t mean diddly squat.
Please do us all a favor, please please please, come up with an actual argument for why you’ve done a complete 180º from your previous disdain for Cheney. What would you have Oblunder do? (Right now he’s continuing most of W’s plans in Iraq/Afgan/Pak, despite the appalling ‘apology’ speeches. So there are many former Dems and many more GOPers who hate the big O because they see him as not protecting us, but he’s continuing the same things W did!!!!)
Not pickin’ a fight, it just pains me to see your posts go from rational and well thought out to elementary “who kicked whose butt” type posts.
Peace.
Great post, ces.
This has been one of my points and greatest concerns throughout the entire series of threads concerning torture. Our use of torture puts our own soldiers at even greater risk.
Thanks. I’ve appreciated your views, as well.
One of the greatest things our men and women say about going back to Iraq over and over is:
They do it for the guy next to them.
They do it for their buddy.
They’d do anything to bring their fallen back home alive.
They can’t stand the thought of doing anything that doesn’t help their fellow soldier.
Yet… we have people who think torture (and more than the 36 techniques allowed by Addington and Yoo) is OK. It’s not, if only because the guys doing the EIT only put their fellow patriots on the front lines at even MORE risk.
That isn’t acceptable to me, at all.
Well said and I agree. The other thing that comes to mind is how a policy that may not produce truthful results, put our soldiers at greater risk, AND give the terrorists more propaganda for recruitment can possibly be thought of as necessary and prudent. It boggles the mind.
And despite oblunder’s apology tour, this isn’t about WWI or WWII or anything else but our position in TODAY’s world.
Indeed and the one we have to live in.
Oblunder–LMAO. I hadn’t seen that one before. If he were smart, he’d change his name again.
Is the sawing off of our soldiers’ heads not already reckless abandon? What more do we have to look forward to?
And let’s not forget that one’s idea of torture can be arbitrarily defined based on one’s political purposes.
No it can’t.
Torture is explicitly codified by numerous international legal documents.
Those methods were not redefined by Yoo/Addington as something other than torture.
Y/A wrote their legal “opinions” based on their fantasy that the Executive Office can bypass international law.
Oh, so there were differing opinions/interpretations as to what constitutes torture? For political purposes? What are laws based on by the way? Opinions perhaps? You just exactly made my point, with your own lefty slant on it of course. I am not at all a proponent for what I would consider “real torture” such as electrocution or chopping off fingers/toes. Waterboarding is an entirely different story. The Dems have decided at this late date (after being fully complicit in its use) to call waterboarding a crime. This was purely a political calculation to go after that horrible Bush admin again…and it backfired horribly. Unless the Dems are going to arrest themselves as well, they need to move on.
I have also heard the following called torture by the U.S.:
1)being made to stand up for a REALLY long time
2)removing religious symbols from their person
3)allowing a woman to touch them
I could go on but won’t bother. I’m sure you get the point (or perhaps not).
Yep, and include sleep deprivation by lights and loud noise. If that is torture, then the people at Waco were tortured. Then the pirates were tortured with spotlights. This becomes a slippery slope quickly. If we were permanently maiming people, like the enemy that broke McCain’s arms and hands repeatedly, I think that goes beyond torture.
You do realize that detainees died at the hand of US soldiers and CIA employees, right?
One guy died within 10 hours of being picked up. He was later found to be completely innocent. He died after being in CIA custody in Iraq for an hour.
Brilliant strategy for finding info, right? Pleeezzzz…
People die at the hands of our regular domestic police regularly. There was a sheriff deputy in Tampa not long ago, who ordered a quadriplegic to stand up… a few moments later, she dumped the guy out of his wheelchair and told him again to get up… all on camera. People are human and they react sometimes with emotion that is from the moment. That doesn’t make it o.k. any more than it makes Bush and Cheney responsible for everything that happens in military prisoner handling.
It does if they:
a) were setting up legal precedents to give our folks “preemptive immunity”…that says there’s NO SHERRIFF in town. These guys set up a policy of torture. Period.
and
b) no one was ever punished. If otherwise good people knew they won’t get punished they’ll do all sorts of things. And this is why I distrust/dislike Pelosi/oblunder so much…they haven’t gone after those who committed these crimes (from top to bottom, including the DIMS briefed!!)
Can you read?
What constitute torture is codified. Period.
Would an orthodox Jew touch a women during her ‘cycle’? I think not. They don’t touch any woman for fear she’s ‘unclean’ due to her cycle. I would thing, because of their strict religious background, those Jews would consider it torturous to be touched by a woman, let alone one appearing to be ‘unclean.’ So, again, bringing on those stresses is torture.
The W admin’s “opinions” only said “We can torture ‘cuz we think the White House should be able to.”
W didn’t redefine torture, his buddies “made it legal” to torture.
It’s not all about waterboarding.
And my lefty slant? You have no clue as to what my slant is, other than I’m against torture as has been defined BY LAW. This isn’t a Right vs Left thing, it’s a right vs wrong thing.
And of course the Dims are complicit. That’s a huge part of the problem. But read up on the issue, Jules, and you’ll see that Cheney, specifically, hid much of this from EVERYONE else. Hi working group’s “legal opinion” making 36 techniques “legal” was held from the JAGs of all four military branches! So forget all the hubbub about Pelosi and the CIA…Cheney really was the one withholding a hell of a lot of info. Or rather, him, Addington, Yoo, Beaver, Haynes, Chertoff, Rumsfeld, Gonzales…
OH MY GOD YOU ARE RIDICULOUS.
If you are implying that I have not done the proper amount of reading and if I had then I would agree with you…you are sorely mistaken.
Um, absolutely NOT. Will never forget. She is an empty-headed, petty, pathetic hypocrite.
I’ll wait to see if my first reply makes it out of the NQ spam filter before writing it out again.
Absolutely not. Why would you think so? I’ve seen this behavior first hand in Morristown, NJ. Women at retail establishments put the change on the counter, instead of putting it in the customer’s hand, because of the religious stigma. Again, we all have our weaknesses that torturers can exploit if they are allowed to.
You do realize that Cheney and Addington hid this policy from the top legal people in the military, right? Why turn it around and make it about me incorrectly accusing you of something? Ya see, if you know that Cheney hid this from just about everybody who dissented from his narrow interpretation, then you think torture is OK?? Is that what you’re saying? Because what I was saying was, maybe MOST of the Dims didn’t know?? The JAGs didn’t know!! How the cowpies would joe blow representative know?
It’s called a figure of speech. Of course you don’t forget ANYBODY who was involved! Pelosi and Conyers and the other top Dims are weak and huge hyprocrites, because they haven’t brought those involved (from top to bottom) to trial. For that alone, Pelosi should be impeached. And if it’s proven she knew about it, she should have her orange jumpsuit, too.
The gravity of international law excludes torture from acceptable norms, and no amount of fear or righteous indignation can overcome that.
We can be better than our enemies, and it’s time we got back to acting like it.
Right, the radicals do that and we have the crushing might of international law on our shoulders when we go after those bastards.
BUT…
if we torture and bypass said international law, then anybody and their cousin can kill anybody and we wouldn’t have a legal foot to stand on.
By us torturing is DOES NOT mean we don’t have any recourse to go after the guilty and make sure they don’t see the light of day.
WE ARE BETTER THAN THE PLAYGROUND ‘HE DID IT, SO SHOULD I!”
If we are torturing just as a means of “justice” or revenge, you better say a few more prayers for our fighting folks because you would have just unleashed the most unholy terror even you can’t imagine. And we wouldn’t have any recourse.
My first response was lost…so here’s the short version.
We torture. They behead.
We’ve both violated international law.
It’s a zero-sum game with no recourse. Both sides just keep killing and it continues to escalate.
But if we hold ourselves to a higher and within international law, we have recourse. We can use our moral standing to get aid in bringing the little fucks to justice. (ie. Gulf War I has enormous support compared to the trumped up GFII.)
Revenge begets revenge (see Israel/Pal).
Both Churchill & Truman were in my lifetime. I remember them. They both were in the field under fire.
Sorry Seattle, but Cheney the draft dodger is neither a Churchill or a Truman.
ventura speaks for his benefit and no others! so why should i give a rip what he thinks. from what i can see few on here do. what is the purpose of this diary?
we all agree that torture is an awful, terrible thing. but to use ventura as a spokesman using terms like body slam makes me yawn real loud. face it, most of us don’t buy the false dimocratic piety. we respect the rule of law, etc, but the damn shame of it few in dc do as well including the attorney general.
Let’s use your logic. We know nothing about you but you are expressing an opinion that you apparently believe others should take seriously. Why should we care what you think? What are your qualifications and experience?
i am an american expressing my opinion in a courteous manner. frankly, with all due respect larry that is all i need to express an opinion. has that changed? if so, i’ll by very happy to abide by that change. thanks
Courteous? Your first words to my post were “stick it where the sun don’t shine.” Would you say those words to my face? Quite likely not. Then don’t say them on the internet. You might get somebody real pissed. Stick to your argument and cut the crap.
Good comeback donjo–I like your stile.
donjo, little bot, grow up! you are rude, mean spirited and try to stir it up. however you aren’t that successful at it!
Sorry, but narrow-minded people do that to me.
donjo, blame everyone but yourself! yeah, right sure!
Ooh, and how would you describe yourself, donjo?
Sorry but using Ventura as an example to make a point really doesnt say much, to me anyway.
Susan– I would give your opinions more “clout” than I would Ventura.
I respect the fact that he is direct and honest but it is something about him that is creepy to me.
He speaks to people unlike you and me. That alone makes his voice an addition that is welcome! He’ll appeal to the “rednecks” out there, and make them stop and think
Not every voice needs to be Harvard-educated and write like Glenn Greenwald. ALL TYPES OF PEOPLE must speak out. Consider his just one of many who have the sense — and the experience — to speak authoritatively.
Amen, Susan. I would listen to Jesse, who has at least been there as apposed to someone who hasn’t, like Cheney.
We could all do a re-reading of Thomas Paine it may give us a little more perspective on “Common Sense”
IMHO
Pretty much he was an onstage actor with “pro” wrestling. None of that ringside stuff was real, it was for the cameras and I suspect so is the Cheney tough talk. What does he want… Cheney to chase him around with a folding chair on camera? But, if he is now some sort of political role model, check out this page of Jesse Ventura quotes. Because, if you loved his Cheney talk, then you will love getting hooked up with the rest of his wisdom.
http://www.notable-quotes.com/v/ventura_jesse.html
Nice try but beside the point. That being said, from the standpoint of practicality, I think he makes some valid points. Life in prison should mean life in prison; prostitution should be made legal between consenting adults since, much like prohibition, criminalizing it only enriches the thugs. The suicide thing, though, was a bit much.
Cheney, on the other hand, is a bald-face liar and coward-a couple of things you wouldn’t accuse Jesse of being.
I don’t think so at all. If his best redeeming quality is he validates a popular position, then he is just another media opportunist. Honestly, Miss California has better one liners than this guy, and this guy made a living out of talking tough one liners. I really appreciate you guys letting a washed out RINO hang around. It helped me keep my sanity during the election. As of late though I am feeling sometimes like I am at MSNQ. If I get banned, I will miss you.
Actually, I quit enjoyed the Ventura quotes. Thanks for the link.
I suspect Cheney is setting up 0bama and trying to establish once and for all Bush and his untouchable “success” in keeping America safe, and 0bama’s, and the democrats’, irresponsible failure which will be set in repubs’ campaign ads for a couple of cycles if we are bombed again.
My guess is Cheney is a gambling man and time is on his side — 3.5 or 7.5 years.
I suspect Cheney is trying to become relevant in order to secure his book deal.
I’m with Cheney on this one. I’d water board a terrorist any day, any time to get him to talk. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures.
You obviously don’t understand that waterboarding doesn’t work. Read Ventura’s comment again. The waterboardee will say anything you want him to say.
It’s handy for obtaining lies to back up lies.
excuse me, are you an expert?? were you there? was Jesse Ventura there? Fuck no, none of you were so you don’t know if it worked or not. I’m with dee4hill. Terrorists who slit the throats of their captives slowly then behead them won’t get any sympathy from me. They can all rot in hell.
Was Chee-nee there? Just askin
tom, did you see the movie, DUMB AND DUMBER? sometimes on blogs when i see one and his alternative persona, i think about that movie.
Gee, are you ever clever. That 5th grade education working out for you is it?
got a masters ac! and that is really pathetic. you sound to me like maybe 3rd grade. keep at it!
Woodiej: Glad you could take time off from your extremely busy schedule and your house with a yard (which prevents you from keeping up with the news, alas) to post. Aren’t you the hall monitor who’s perpetually scolding those who disagree with you to be courteous? Your tone isn’t very nice in this post. And since you’re always badgering me when I post about Fox or Limbaugh, demanding “proof” of this or that, I return the volley. Please provide proof - actual, tangible proof that would stand up in court - that each and every detainee being held at Guantanamo, Baghram and other facilities are guilty of being an al Qaeda follower, being a terrorist, or breaking any law of any kind. I wrote EACH AND EVERY DETAINEE, not just Khalid Sheikh Mohammad. To quote you, are you an expert???
These times aren’t any more extraordinary than those during WWII. We didn’t resort to torture then and we shouldn’t now. Had BushCo actually gone after the real terrorists, we might be resting just a bit easier.
That opens up the door for other governments to do the same. I hope you don’t have any relatives serving. I certainly do and want no part of your solution.
as long as we are discussing the cia and all that goes with it, i have wondered that perhaps one of the writers here with long experience and understanding of the entity might post some thoughts on what happened in the church era. where they indeed weakened or were they curbed as needed? i have often wondered where the truth of all that lay. i sorta think there is truth on both sides.
Of course, Cheney will then claim the use of torture and waterboarding were part of their success.
Cheney seems to have to “prove” he’s right with what ever twists of reality he has to make. It’s his last chapter in his book before, just maybe, he shuts the hell up.
That’s because you all think he is wrong!
Go Figure…
Yeah, another “Mission Accomplished”, as it were. But then there’s that pesky bin Laden, who is still on the loose. Cheney can bray from dawn to dusk and still never explain that one away.
Cheney has basically one purpose in whatever is left of his miserable life - and that’s to keep his sorry ass out of jail. He, Chimpy, Rummy and a few fellow co-conspirators need a room reserved for them at Gitmo - or in the hellhole that is Bagram.
Don’t forget to add Pelosi to that list.
Who gives a FUCK what Jesse Venture thinks?? Please.
Where is a thread honoring our military who fights for our freedom and this great country every single day. Not a one ALL DAY LONG. SHAME ON YOU NQ. SHAME.
Write one and submit it to the CONTACT US link.
Yep, he has a lot of kooky opinions which he delivers with all the decorum of Lurch on steroids. He also says with some fortitude that 9-11 is some kind of government conspiracy. Nothing he could say at this point would make him credible to me. That is just me though, and I am no seal, just trying to figure why anybody would care what this guy thinks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV04eDoKRRU
Woodiej: Temper temper! What happened to “courtesy” and “being polite”? And turning the tables, Jesse Ventura is a former SEAL. Your qualifications for loudly shouting your opinions on a blog are that you have a job, go to school, own a house with a yard, don’t keep up with the news and get your information from Limbaugh and Fox. You have zero expertise in defense, intelligence, international affairs or military strategy. So I ask you, why should readers give a F*** about what YOU think? See, I didn’t write the whole curse word down. I’m just being courteous and polite.
Let’s waterboard Jesse and see if he confesses to being a fake ‘SEAL’. He dishonors the real SEALS who actually saw action. From what I see on many web sites they’re starting to call him out on his BS.
He’s a self-serving,self-promoting, 9/11 conspiracy theorist mental case who fried up what few brain cells he had with all the chemicals he took as a wrestler.
He’s from the (If I puff out by flabby chest and say it loud it makes it so debating society), who forms his schizophrenic opinions by wetting his finger to see which way the winds are blowing.
For a distinguished alumnus of the WWE and XFL cheerleader to threaten to waterboard an old man whose heart is in such tenuous shape that he has an implanted defibrillator does Mr. Ventura no credit.
That Cheney insists that waterboarding is legal, effective, and necessary may be a cause leading to the effect of his tenuous shape and needed defribrillator. Someone with that sort of malevolence and inhumanity already has one foot in the grave.
Yes, and who also is the immediate past Vice President of the United States. Times were he would be publicly excoriated for having this public remark. I guess that was before the Dixie Chicks were ashamed and somehow it became fashionable. Now, even Michelle can not be proud and it’s alright. What next?
The more Cheney talks, the more Americans seem to like him.
Cheney must be easy to buy gifts for. An old rusty pair of pliars or pair of jumper cables. The Rummy field manual on how to get the most out of that naked man pyramid, etc..
Yeah, Cheney has a special place in his heart for jumper cables….
/snark
this comment pertains to the cult of celebrity. many of us have seen the american idol mentality almost take over in this country. if you ever watch some of these celebrity oriented shows, then it is easy to see how they just human and in some cases very very flawed. i have little respect for the mental acuity of most of them. ventura was perhaps a political figure at one time but no longer. in other words ventura is a celebrity rather than political figure. sure he hits some comments out of the ball park, but then some of his comments make me wonder. i along with many are tired of the celebrities trying to tell us how to live and vote. they are entitled to their opinions, and i have entitled not to listen.
Someone stated earlier that it was Memorial Day and not one diary at NQ expressing appreciation.
That bothers me far less than the horrible comments I have read questioning the military service of Ventura.
All I can say to those posters are - you should be ashamed. Very ashamed. An on this day of all days!
Maybe, but if he wasn’t dissing Cheney nobody would care what he was saying.
Yeah, Cheney….who NEVER served. Go figure.