“Prolonged Detention”??
By Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy on May 28, 2009 at 10:35 PM in Civil Liberties, Constitution, MSNBC, President Barack Obama, Rachel Maddow, U.S. Constitution
(bumped up from early afternoon)
At my most recent post about Secretary Clinton providing full benefits to the GLBT Diplomat Corp, faithful No Quarter reader, Mountaires, had a comment which included the following video from the Rachel Maddow Show. As you know, and as I have mentioned a number of times, Rachel Maddow, and her network, MSNBC, were very blatantly, and obviously, in the tank for Obama (there are too many examples to go into right now - do a search here, or No Quarter, or Goodsearch.com - you will get hits, I promise). That should convey to you just how incredibly serious what she says is - she is a HUGE Obama supporter (or was - who knows now). And what Obama wants to do next should scare the bejesus out of everyone in this country. It is his further dismantling of our Constitution, and our democracy. And what it is staggers the mind:
I have no words for this. Oh, wait - yes I do. For Obama to give this speech in which he is taking away rights GUARANTEED by the Constitution of the United States (right to a speedy trial, to not be held without charges) is criminal.
I was wrong, though. Obama is not another Bush, he is WORSE than Bush. I didn’t think that was possible, but there it is, from his very own lips - he is actively working to take away our rights. This is shocking beyond belief. I can’t wait to hear how the Obama minions will defend THIS.
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By Sarah Palin (Release date: November 17. 2009)
Yes, he is especially worse because the media thinks he’s the second coming. The media has put this country into a really awful mess yet again.
Cheney was worse than Bush; Didn’t Cheney or OBama say they are blood relatives? Figures.
Yes, Cheney and Obama are related - cousins, I think…
I don’t think he is worse than Bush: I think the policies enacted by their mutual backers become more and more openly fascist and the assaults on our freedoms to fight back grow steadily stronger. But this is not anything that we could not see coming long ago, since at least as far back as Reagan.
Both Bush and BHO are tools to the same “defense” contractors, the financial sector, and the most extremely wealthy CEOs that run the economics of our country, many of whom are not even US citizens.
That is the truth we need to never loose sight of - their mutual backers.
I am reading a book by Kate Mass called Labyrinth in a passage describing the Cather heresy she writes that the Cathers believed that the world was evil and the only hope for happiness was in the after life.
“How odd”, I thought, that anyone would think this magnificent world is evil. But then I realized that was the world they lived in, the world our founding fathers liberated us from, and now we have thrown it away.
What is worse is that he ’summoned’ the Civil Liberties orgs to an off the record meeting and they went. It is reported that he admonished them and let them know he was NOT happy with them for pointing out what the video does, by reviewing his VERY OWN WORDS.
What upset me, is that these very organizations would be the ones that would have to go up against ANY administration that would infringe or violate the citizens liberties of this country.
Hmmm. . . could it be that Rachel Maddow has stopped guzzling the Obama Kool-Aid?
PSIG: I wonder if we did a survey of these pundits who are now speaking out against Obama if any of them would say they wish they had supported Hillary and they wish Hillary was in the WH?
I’d pay good money to hear them honestly answer those questions.
Right there with ya, Ani. I might stop at, “I’d pay good money for them to be honest…”
Not a chance that Racheal Maddow has stop guzzling the BO kool-aid ….not a chance in hell.
Poetic?
Even if she is late to the party she has ZERO credibility with me. I heard that speech. I am not surprised by it. And having voted for BO Racheal is a fool and has NO motivation to raise the issue other than to cover her ass.
Rev. Amy… For a “Constitutional Professor” BO is a sad sack of SH*t.
What on earth were the Obots thinking? This is so serious that normally I would laugh and say “you foolish Obots” , I am NOT laughing
I would say more but it would not be fit for a public forum. Suffice to say it makes me want to puke all over BO for desecrating our Constitution.
And BO making statements like that is any wonder that firearm sales are through the roof?
To be a “Professor” one has to be tenured based on a whole host of criteria — scholarship produced (i.e. books and articles written), professional performance (in the classroom & in committee work), and even community engagement). Obama never worked long enough in academia to accomplish anything worthy of tenure. He does not and never did hold the earned title of Professor at the University of Chicago. He was simply a Lecturer whose academic rank lies at the bottom of the totem pole, as it were. The following is the professional ranking in academia:
Professor (highest rank)
Associate professor
Assistant professor
Lecturer (lowest rank)
Wait a minute! Is this a trick? The above straight-from-the-horse’s mouth video of Rachel Maddow is utterly shocking! Has MSNBO’s ratings gone down so far that they have been snatched back to reality and in a last-ditch effort to save themselves resorted to reporting the news?? I don’t know -I’ll have to see more than this to be convinced that mob of media moffia jerks are deciding to go straight and get off the juice.
Democracy was wounded in 2000 and again in 2004.
Democracy died May 31 2008.
Backtrack was selected to continue the decline of democracy in this country.
Backtrack is continuing the looting of the wealth and resources.
Backtrack is continuing the lessening of rights and changing of laws.
Backtrack is the killing blow to democracy.
The saddest thing of all is that it was not done by an outside enemy, it was done by some in this country.
WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE
He is taking over the country from the inside, which is how extremists of various sorts have predicted would be the only way to conquer the United States.
I can only hope that insiders in government and the military are starting to notice. What do the rest of us do?
Sinclair Lewis said it best.
Heads up, people, it’s here!! Brought to you by the “Yes, We Can!” crew. I guess there was more to that slogan than we realized. I wonder if anyone will ask Sotomayor about the legality of “prolonged detention”. Surely, Mr. “I am a Constitutional scholar” knows that the Constitution applies, with all its rights, to all PERSONS on American sovereign territory, which includes Guantanamo? I wonder if his newest nominee does?
I think so. I think she is a “real” person. But if the right doesn’t get down seriously on her soon, Obama’s people will have to start releasing stuff themselves, because he never wanted Sotomayor really, he wants Kagan. Kagan will be with him on executive power. That is what the most powerful man in the world wants ultimately… more power.
I agree and will go further to propose that Constitutional rights/protection applies anywhere and controlling anyone who is empowered by said Constitution.
Just his behaviour in the Democratic primary and the subsequent crimes committed of denying voters rights in several states was enough to prove Obama and his followers will destroy this country. What is most disturbing to me is the fact that there have to be hundreds of insiders that should blow some whistles yet remain mute. Are there NO PERSONS of integrity left ? My respect for Anita Moncref is enormous.
Let’s see–prolonged detention in order to prevent the possibility of future crimes against America. Well, if we are going to advocate that principle and apply it to potential terrorists like the Gitmo residents, what is to prevent the government from applying it to other “undesirables” whose future actions could very feasibly be unlawful? Well, we could survey the current inmates of prisons across the USA to see what sort of folks are likely to be future lawbreakers–whoops–look at all those dusky complexions! And while we are working up our profiles of those who are apt to commit future crimes, we must consider the level of recidivism among ex-cons: why ever let anybody out of prison at all! Obviously, we’re headed into very slippery terrain if we start rationalizing the concept of “indefinite prolonged detention.” What starts out as a program to be applied to possible terrorists could be extended to other classes of social “risks” once the precedent is established . . .
We all knew he could be a Hitler 2. It seems he is.
They already holding environmental activists in cmus alongside terrorism suspects.
http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/communication-management-units-mcgowan/1747/
http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/mob-law-i-69-environmental-activists/1804/
http://animalrights.change.org/blog/view/on_the_fbis_most_wanted_vegan_terrorist
BHO is anything but a lefty. He is a neocon mole.
“[Obama] is a neocon mole.”
Well put!
Well if that is true, then I wonder if his parents were “red” moles? What would that possibly make him, were that the case? Interesting to go there in theory, with the Pelosi vs. the intelligence agency skirmish going on in the backdrop.
Why are animal rights and environmentalist being held in a prison for terrorists? They damaged some property so yes they should serve time, but they didn’t set out to, nor tried to kill 100’s if not 1,000’s of people. Now everyone is a suspected terrorist?? This whole thing is unbelievable.
Animal rights activists and environmentalists are in general among those who are most anti-war and anti-fascism.
Plus, they are lefties: targeting them is good for consolidating your base.
Are you referencing the ones who actually blew up labs? If so, your question is circular. Just know, that if this is who you’re talking about these people are Billy Ayers types who believe their cause and their explosion is not terrorism because ‘they’re right’. Just as those that who blew the U.S.S. Cole or flew planes into the twin towers believed they were right. How do you distinguish them?
Well let’s extend this even further. I used to get detention after school for a transgression. But to keep me from future transgressions the school could decide to make it a prolonged detention.
Can I phone my mother and tell her I’m never coming home or is that call not allowed?
This is one of those Thought Crimes that all Law proffesors said could never happen in America. Where are they now?
Remember a movie called “Minority Report”?
No but will rent it soon.
I think Maddow just simply changed her message in order to save her show.
Betsy her show is at rock bottom…….it was kinda creepy watching HER say what I have been thinking about this detention bit.
I flipped by the Ed Schultz show last night for a few minutes and he seemed to be taking Barry to task over a few things as well.
Agreed. The trend is due to reverse on Obama and for good reasons. It points out the fact that Obama was simply touted and sold as the Idol president. Now, in order to keep whatever ratings they have, Obama media whores are having to report the real news. It isn’t favorable to Obama if one really pays attention.
Why? Because Obama is an empty panhandling suit not a statesman.
Sadly, in my opinion, any and all realization of error, by Obama’s media or populace minions, comes too late.
He has the power! He consolidates it daily behind the scenes.
While we the public focus on the WH’s manufactured issue of the day, we are being robbed blind, the constitution is being shredded, and Obama is creating the most deceptive governance ever seen.
Never have we had a President that would be harder to remove from office, under any circumstance.
Betsy: I think you are right. These pundits have no integrity. They follow the money.
Looks like Maddow is experiencing a bit of a hangover from all that spiked Kool-Aid.
She was so absolutely horrid to Hillary and trumpeted Obama from the mountain. I wonder what Maddow thinks now? Or is Betsy right above — is she just singing a new tune to save her show?
This really is frightening.
Detention for me denotes a heavy handed school tactic. He should probably tone it down another notch, call it something like… indefinite time-out. Kinder and friendlier imprisonment… what will they think of next? I shudder to think.
LOL Doc, that’s kinder and friendlier for sure. The hunt for euphemisms is on! I’m sure that Jon Favreau is hard at work searching for an appropriate phrase softener as we speak!
Possible euphemisms for Obama’s “kinder and friendlier” imprisonment policy:
Softer and gentler…
Different and newer…
Hipper and cooler…
Zippy and funner …
Imprisonment sounds harsh doesn’t it? How about meditation time? Introspection awareness training? Something new age preferably.
Trixta & Doc–funny! The “hipper and cooler” “introspection awareness training” can be augmented by showing a new compassionate sympathy for the Muslim world: every cell can feature a window facing towards Mecca . . .
Maybe it could be one of those fun weekend threads. We can take a list of topics and policies and then work on our vernaculars together and see if we can’t translate them into native hopenchange.
Yes, this could be a WORM weekend thread.
Well, I think it needs to be a few words long, this new euphemism, so that BO has the time to move his head from left to right as he reads it. Both teleprompters should have the opportunity to share in the announcement of the wonderful new phrase.
LOL, Lorac!
Y’all are hilarious! It could be arranged, ya know!
Maybe he can find it under Hillary’s bra.
Maybe there can be time-out chairs instead of cells.
time out chairs….lol….
Forget euphemisms, let’s go for the classical 1984 redefinitions:
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
In view of what’s happening with the media, I gotta go with the last one as my favorite.
That worked wonderfully for Obummer in the past, it’s how he got elected. Ignorant people voting without doing any research into the candidate. For the Obots, ignorance is strength because as soon as people start learning what this administration is really all about, the fewer supporters they will have. So it is good for the Obummer supporters that people remain ignorant, since knowledge will bring disillusionment and possible impeachment of their idol. Here’s to enlightenment!!!!
I like oldspeak, thx!
“A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.”
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.
Nice quote, nom nom non!
Goes to show that the more things change the more they stay the same. BO and GWB are evil twins.
Thanks Ms. Maddow, one year too late.
I am thinking that Barry needs to be the first since I am really frightened of what else this man is going to do! His actions have been the action of a terrorist and it would be in the best interest of our country to remove him for maybe 1, 5, or 10 years till we can clear his background! We surely don’t want to accuse him of things we are not sure of, and this can help in making sure we have our facts straight.
Love it.
Me, too - perfect! No one deserves it more than Obama. I mean, if this is what he has done in 4 months, just IMAGINE what is down the road. Yep - perfect candidate for that “Indefinite time-out!” (Funny suggestions above - cracking me up, not easy to do with THIS topic…)
FlDemFem, you hit the nail on the head. My siblings were glowingly talking abt Obama the other night - not abt any of his policies, mind you, but his smart-ass comment abt not getting an honorary degree from AZ, and stuff like that. They were SILENT abt the other things he’s done. That’s not the issue anyway, RIGHT??? It’s how cool he is and everything! Forget FISA! Forget extraordinary rendition! Forget Valerie Plame Wilson! Forget private corporations! The list goes on and on and on…
My sister did say abt this issue that it all depends on who is doing the locking up, which is the problem. I said, “Exactly!” It could be anyone of us who do not toe the Obama Party Line - who knows??
You might try quoting Martin Niemuller to them.
Sadly appropriate, don’t you think?
I think he likes to speak in that hall because he loves to hear himself speak…TWICE with that echo!!!
Is anyone else concerned about the effects of those hot media lights shining on original documents framed behind him?
They have special glass over them to protect them from UV and other sorts of light wavelengths. So they are safe, for now. The laws and principles laid out in them are in mortal danger.
But, Ellen, are those documents really that relevant to “how the world works today”?
Anyone have one of those ‘Bill of Rights’ cups where you can watch your rights disappear over a cup of hot coffee? The heat makes certain phrases disappear. Maybe Oblowme is hoping the same effect will occur under the hot lights and parts of the Constitution will simply conveniently ‘disappear’. Lord knows the Obots would never notice they were missing!
notice he said that he has done a lot,but we ain’t seen nothing yet.
i.m shaking in my boots.
Add his proposed detention legislation to his cybersecurity act and you could see website owners’ assets taken to prevent future disruption in the president’s plan to make us more secure by allowing him to swallow the constitution and protect us from ourselves. Would he put mustard on that?
Can we put Obama in “prevention detention” for future crimes against America?
LOL, do it now!!!!
An Early Call for Obama’s Resignation
With Democrats Like Him, Who Needs Dictators?
by Ted Rall
We expected broken promises. But the gap between the soaring expectations that accompanied Barack Obama’s inauguration and his wretched performance is the broadest such chasm in recent historical memory. This guy makes Bill Clinton look like a paragon of integrity and follow-through.
From healthcare to torture to the economy to war, Obama has reneged on pledges real and implied. So timid and so owned is he that he trembles in fear of offending, of all things, the government of Turkey. Obama has officially reneged on his campaign promise to acknowledge the Armenian genocide. When a president doesn’t have the ‘nads to annoy the Turks, why does he bother to show up for work in the morning?
Obama is useless. Worse than that, he’s dangerous. Which is why, if he has any patriotism left after the thousands of meetings he has sat through with corporate contributors, blood-sucking lobbyists and corrupt politicians, he ought to step down now–before he drags us further into the abyss.
I refer here to Obama’s plan for “preventive detentions.” If a cop or other government official thinks you might want to commit a crime someday, you could be held in “prolonged detention.” Reports in U.S. state-controlled media imply that Obama’s shocking new policy would only apply to Islamic terrorists (or, in this case, wannabe Islamic terrorists, and also kinda-sorta-maybe-thinking-about-terrorism dudes). As if that made it OK.
In practice, Obama wants to let government goons snatch you, me and anyone else they deem annoying off the street.
Preventive detention is the classic defining characteristic of a military dictatorship. Because dictatorial regimes rely on fear rather than consensus, their priority is self-preservation rather than improving their people’s lives. They worry obsessively over the one thing they can’t control, what Orwell called “thoughtcrime”–contempt for rulers that might someday translate to direct action.
Locking up people who haven’t done anything wrong is worse than un-American and a violent attack on the most basic principles of Western jurisprudence. It is contrary to the most essential notion of human decency. That anyone has ever been subjected to “preventive detention” is an outrage. That the President of the United States, a man who won an election because he promised to elevate our moral and political discourse, would even entertain such a revolting idea offends the idea of civilization itself.
Obama is cute. He is charming. But there is something rotten inside him. Unlike the Republicans who backed Bush, I won’t follow a terrible leader just because I voted for him. Obama has revealed himself. He is a monster, and he should remove himself from power.
“Prolonged detention,” reported The New York Times, would be inflicted upon “terrorism suspects who cannot be tried.”
“Cannot be tried.” Interesting choice of words.
Any “terrorism suspect” (can you be a suspect if you haven’t been charged with a crime?) can be tried. Anyone can be tried for anything. At this writing, a Somali child is sitting in a prison in New York, charged with piracy in the Indian Ocean, where the U.S. has no jurisdiction. Anyone can be tried. Why is it, exactly, that some prisoners “cannot be tried”?
The Old Grey Lady explains why Obama wants this “entirely new chapter in American law” in a boring little sentence buried a couple past the jump and a couple of hundred words down page A16: “Yet another question is what to do with the most problematic group of Guantánamo detainees: those who pose a national security threat but cannot be prosecuted, either for lack of evidence or because evidence is tainted.”
In democracies with functioning legal systems, it is assumed that people against whom there is a “lack of evidence” are innocent. They walk free. In countries where the rule of law prevails, in places blessedly free of fearful leaders whose only concern is staying in power, “tainted evidence” is no evidence at all. If you can’t prove that a defendant committed a crime–an actual crime, not a thoughtcrime–in a fair trial, you release him and apologize to the judge and jury for wasting their time.
It is amazing and incredible, after eight years of Bush’s lawless behavior, to have to still have to explain these things. For that reason alone, Obama should resign.
CG–great article, but who is Tedd Rall and where is this article published? Also, in response to his final paragraph –
–many of us early on discerned that Obama is the flip side of Bush, that is, the continuation of the fascist takeover of this country. Obama should never have been “elected” in the first place.
Ted Rall is an author of many, many books…
This is the link for his Common Dreams article
Thanks for the infor and links, CG! More on Ted Rall from his website:
“Ted Rall, President of the Association of American Editorial Cartoonists, is an award-winning political cartoonist and op-ed columnist for Universal Press Syndicate. He is the author of 14 books, including graphic novels, political polemics and travelogues covering Central and South Asia.”
“At this writing, a Somali child is sitting in a prison in New York, charged with piracy in the Indian Ocean, where the U.S. has no jurisdiction.”
Wrong. The “child” is 18, so he is an adult. Further, in international waters, a country has the right to protect ships sailing under its flag.
But I have a solution to all of these problems. No terrorist should be preventively arrested for conspiring to attack the US and kill Americans. Rather, they should be arrested right after the attack, once an American has been killed. CG’s address should be published as one American available to be killed to that others may live once his killer is tried and convicted.
WOW, very interesting. Did I write the article or did Ted Rall write the article, and you advocate killing? WOW.
Retired, P.S. I believe you took Ted Rall’s point out of context, intentionally. The sentence that follows the one you’ve shown above is
The point is we can have trials for any persons suspected to be terrorists, we don’t need to subscribe to prolonged detentions. If we can try a Somali pirate captured in international waters in a court of law in the United States, then we can try any and all others captured outside of the United States.
“CG’s address should be published as one American available to be killed (s)o that others may live once his killer is tried and convicted.”
It’s your brain that’s Retired. You need some serious help, psycho.
Why CG?? Why not you? Aren’t you willing to give up your life for your fellow citizen’s safety?? No?? But you are willing to offer up someone else instead? Hmm. You do realize that under US law, if you were to publish CG’s address and encourage “terrorists” to kill him, and CG ends up dead, that you are guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and can be arrested, charged and tried for that crime? Or perhaps you can be put in “preventive detention” to keep you from encouraging terrorists to kill Americans. Sounds like a plan to me!!
No respect for people like Rachel Maddow. Why is this stunning? If the press had done their homework during the primary and GE they would have PREDICTED this behavior in Obama. Huge power grab, that’s what the Obama Democrats are all about.
If he can preventively detain these folks, he can preventively detain any one of us. We see every day how little the rights of legal American citizens matter to the reigning cabal.
In all seriousness yes. It is like he sucks the power out of every special interest he can fit under his big tent and then bastardizes that power and misuses it to his own ends. He is playing everybody the same way poverty pimps have played urban folks for decades now. I think he has just kicked a sleeping giant though to be honest. I am not all that worried anymore, I think people do and are “getting it” more and more each day.
The POTUS has been triangulating from the get go. This will increasingly alienate the far left. But the POTUS and his handlers can play them for suckers ’til the cows come home and still count on the vast majority of their votes and campaign contributions.
They’re the ones who wanted him so badly and screwed HRC. And what’s their alternative now? Nader? Kucinich? McKinney? Failure to renominate a sitting president in 2012? Staying home on election day? Voting Republican? They’re discovering that this POTUS is an unprincipled opportunist who doesn’t like to dance with the one what brung him.
Well, they could impeach Obama, then install Biden as President, who then appoints Hillary Clinton as VP, at which time Biden resigns and Hillary is President. I think that is a very good plan, how about you all?
Rachel Maddow P’s me off acting all surprised that this man would talk out of both sides of his mouth.
You mean to tell me she didn’t know that this would happen? Like Govenor Sarah Palin said that Obama was ‘very predictable’. So Madcow didn’t see this during the campaign when over half of Americans did see it?
We predicted this. It’s people like her that are to blame for this mess of a joker pretender. He even goofed up his teleprompter speech. Did you see that? Sickening. Sickening man. Sickening MSM. Both are gasbags. Madcow is an accomplice to this. She aided and abetted this man to be in the position he is to strip our rights. I hope she has a tough time sleeping at night. Prolly not though. Prolly has no conscience as she sold America down the river.
OMG,
Rachel isn’t alone in this! You need to tack on the majority of the MSM who are males and who had tingles going up their legs when they heard obama speak! And then there’s bloviating Keith O. with his brutish, rightous indignation against any woman who dared to believe she could compete against the boyz. As bad as she is, Rachel doesn’t hold a candle to what the boyz did to both Hillary and Sarah and what the conservative boyz are now doing to Judge Sotomayor. They have no shame and have learned NOTHING!
Unfortunately, like many women, Rachel felt she had to sell her soul in order to be accepted as a member of the boyz club. When will women realize that they will never be members of this exclusive club? They will never be more than just water carriers for the boyz.
As a result of this rampant and unrestrained misogyny, we now have Herr Obama to contend with and I can guarantee you that there will never be the over the top response to the horrors obama is unleasing upon our country, as there was against two women who had never done anything during their tenure as public servants to harm this country.
The obamabots threw away the best chance this country had to survive — Hillary Rodham Clinton. I only wish they would be the one’s who would have to endure the consequences of their actions.
Do you seriously imagine that the same people who served up Obama and McCain weren’t hedging their bets with Hillary? Hillary has been an active collaborator with the neocons from Day 1, a relentless shill from her days working for Walmart.
There was no choice in that race but to vote for Nader, Ron Paul or anybody else who wasn’t an obvious sellout.
Oh, but this can’t be right — Harry Reid said that Obama has the biggest heart in the whole world and you all know how he likes to fling that word “compassion” around too.
Kudos to Maddow for pointing out the obvious doublespeak despite the serious exoressions and pretty words.
Other examples of 1984isms include a new Internet Czar (what’s that all about?) and this article:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Furor-grows-over-partisan-car-dealer-closings-46261447.html
that indicates a growing concern that Chrysler Dealerships were chosen for closure based on party affiliation.
To No Quarterites, this type of Obama approach is not surprising and I don’t know if the MSM will cover any of it, but the evidence keeps on mounting.
When we started seeing the press releases about Chinese hackers getting into the electrical grid, and defense contractors being hacked… this was the agenda. You can predict the action by following the press releases. it is so simple and transparent, I am still amazed almost nobody sees it for what it is. Astroturf is the dysphemism I am looking for here. Axelrod knows a thing or two about astroturf.
Well, for the new post of Internet Czar, I believe Al Gore is available . . .
So I assume this is the person we will turn to, when a presidential candidate disables the features on his campaign website, in order to illegally allow foreign donations, and donations from Daffy Duck and people named JKTR#*7WH ? An Internet Czar certainly wouldn’t ignore illegal activity on the web… hmmmm….
It’s my strong suspicion that all these czars are in actuality proxy shakedown artists of the money-grubbing, power hungry head case who is the POTUS. They’ll fly below the radar of congressional oversight, unlike their cabinet secretary counterparts. They’re being assigned to business sectors who’ll have to cough up big time in order to lessen the heavy-handedness of government interference in their industries.
Anyway, that’s my theory.
Like ACORN has done to the banking industry for years? Interesting theory. Kind of like protection money? hmmm.
An enlarged heart is a major health problem. Obummer is obviously too sick to go on being President. He should resign immediately, before someone finds his body on Laura’s rug in the Oval Office. Hehehe.
You have now entered the Minority Report Zone.
Prolonged Detention is now approved for future crime.
Okay, maybe you didn’t do it yet - but you were thinking about it!
Okay, maybe you didn’t do it yet - but you were thinking about it!
Candymarl, I’m always thinking about it, but thinking and doing are two different things!
There is also a disturbing trend of turning our policing over to private corporations: the very hallmark of fascism, in much the same way as we are privatizing our military and also NASA. It will make this detention set up a whole lot less accountable not to mention scarier.
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/isn/Current-Affairs/Security-Watch/Detail/?ots591=4888CAA0-B3DB-1461-98B9-E20E7B9C13D4&lng=en&id=100297
Just so you’re clear what you’re up against: The RCP poll average for President Obama’s Job Approval Rating:
Approve 60.7%
Disapprove 32.8 %
Out of curiousity, do you think that means no one is really listening, or that they are too caught up in their own problems to care.
The real question is: Do you and all the other writers and commentators at No Quarter want to change people’s minds or do you just want to insult people who approve of what Obama’s doing?
You approve of prolonged detention??? You approve of expanding the wars, the funding for the wars and innocent civilian casualties? You approve of handing over of taxpayer monies to the very people who have destroyed our economy without a single prosecution for wrongdoing? You approve of Obama morphing into Bush III?? What about the continued trashing of our civil liberties Sam?
Gee, he left. lol
Um, according to Rasmussen (the pollster who most accurately predicted the 2008 election outcome), the POTUS has slipped 9% since the day after he was inaugurated.
How did anyone insult anyone who approves of Obama?
I can only assume, logically that his loyal and honorable supporters voted for him because they appreciated and believed his campaign promises and vision.
Please explain to me how they can still approve of him wholeheartedly when he is still using signing statements, came up with this shocking “prolonged detention” proposal, expands Bush’s faith based initiatives, reneges on repealing don’t ask don’t tell, reneged on FISA, public financing, appoints Timmy “turbo tax” Geithner to head the Treasury, bailing out Wall St. first and those groups that voted for him, points the finger at AIG bonuses but bigger bonuses went through to the Fannie/Freddie culprits simultaneously without anyone noticing, primising transparency before signing anything then reneging on that…have I left anything out?
Truly, I am not trying to be incendiary but, really, how can his loyal supporters not at least look askance at some of these actions? That is what I was asking. Basically, is any of this troubling to his supporters or are they overlooking it all.
I am not sure I understand why that is insulting.
Amen, sister!
Oh, don’t forget DADT, and all of that, too!
Hey Amy, I mentioned DADT!!!
My bad, Ani - sorry!
I don’t think you or any people who support what BHO is doing have a mind to change, so I vote b) insult you morons.
Which of you freaking brownshirts approve of this crap? That’s what I’d like to know. Jesus H. Christ why can’t people see what a threat this man is to all of us and our country? Just exactly who DID buy us this pig in a poke, anyway? China??? Obots- go away and leave the rest of us alone to chat with one another for a little while longer- until Barky figures out how to finesse taking over the Internet and rounds us all up for what we MIGHT say or do in the future. OMG I can’t believe this shit is going down while the population snoozes.
I think no one is listening because they are so conditioned to see Obama speaking, they tune out. No big deal. These are the same people who don’t peek under the hood or look under the bed. If its not poured into their heads, they don’t bother. And its the same people who are stressed with family, over money, jobs, healthcare, the wars, you name it. Who has time or wants to tune in closely to all the gloom being spouted. Quite the perfect scenario to take over right before their very eyes.
Some people have known this for a long, long time so for Rachel Maddow to suddenly have this concern seems like a manufactured reaction. We may have been wearing tin foil hats, but we got all the signals right.
But Rasmussen Reports a whopping 37% believe that the country is going in the right direction.
Obama may be winning to be prom king. It doesn’t mean his popularity is a reflection of what’s really happening at the dance.
crazysam, I ain’t eskeered of no stinkin’ approval ratings!
Who did they poll? Why should we believe that the poll is even accurate? I work in a very large educational system and I would say my own poll of fellow employees, in a traditionally liberal environment no less, shows a far different result. More like 40/60 approve/disapprove. I’d guess my real world poll is just as accurate as the RCP poll. Many OB voters have since changed their minds. He’s done a good job at changing his supporters opinions to the negative. Change we can believe in. I’m all for it. How about you hmmmm?
In the book Count of Monte Cristo wasn’t he imprisoned due to letters of cache? (spelling?)
where an person could write a letter about someone they did not like or was in opposition to them and get them imprisoned? Aren’t some of the prisoners in Gitmo there because of the same tactics?
Is this what the country has come to, I do not like you or your ideals so I will get you put in prison?
Sometimes fiction becomes truth.
WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE
I guess Alexandre was not a Dum ass
Well Animal Control, that’s just plain clever! And funny!!
Lettre de cachet
RRR Amy… at least there is Hillary and those of us who acknowledge her efforts for justice U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton with American journalist Roxana Saberi at the State Department in Washington on Wednesday
sorry, the link above is not exactly the link I meant, but same story. Here is what I meant to include Journalist Roxana Saberi, recently freed after four months in an Iranian prison, met Wednesday with Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and expressed thanks for the support she received during her confinement.
“When I found that I had this support while I was in prison, I gained a lot of strength and hope and I didn’t feel so alone any more,” Saberi told reporters as she stood beside Clinton, with her parents seated nearby. Saberi did not take questions.
Clinton said she was relieved that Saberi was set free.
“This was a matter of great concern to our country, certainly to the Obama administration and to me personally — not only as secretary of state but as a mother,” Clinton said. “My heart went out to Roxana and to her parents every single day.”
Yay for Sec. Clinton! She is just the best, isn’t she? I knew she was keeping up on what was happening with Saberi, and I have no doubt she was working on her behalf.
Thanks SO much for the link, CG!
no surprise here..but not a word of praise for hillary from the msm in aiding this woman to be released. does 0bama take credit for this?
Since you helped Obama win and are billed as highly intelligent, Rachel, you can answer your own damn questions.
We, Hillary supporters, figured out Obama long ago. We know when someone is trying to bamboozle us.
He does everything for political purposes or to win.
Democracy is dying as we each take a breath. This is outrageous.
In the meantime, Rachel has gone up a notch or two in my book.
Habeas and the Constitution
Article I, Section 9:
So there is an out in the Constitution, but only in case of “rebellion” or “invasion.” It doesn’t specify the criteria for either term nor does it specify who decides when the suspension would be justifed and when it would not be justified.
I don’t believe for a minute that we’re in a state of rebellion or invasion. But I also don’t believe that “indefinite detention” is worse than the things Bush and his coterie did.
Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO
Millions of cases spell out what this Constitutional provision means. Unfortunately, when a POTUS acts so illegally, often the only way to ‘fix it’ is to launch a legal challenge. This takes money…a lot of money…BO could bankrupt the public counsel system, which Congress has historically under-funded. No one wants to provide competent attorneys to ‘criminals.’ (But would their constituents now want to urge them to vote to provide sufficient funds to engage competent counsel to defend those prisoner BO and his “regime” have deemed a future danger and, detained indefinitely?)
I agree, Stan.
I’m with Rachel 100% on this. OTOH I’d far rather have Obama than Bush.
I’d rather have Hillary than Bush too even though we don’t know for sure what she’d have done in this case.
Now that I’m thinking about this though, we do have other circumstances in which we “detain” people for crimes not yet committed. Go to an airport and announce you’re going to blow up or hijack a plane. Threaten publicly to kill the POTUS.
I’m not a lawyer, so someone correct me if I’m wrong - but I believe that making those threats is a crime in itself. If so, they’re not being detained for a crime not yet committed - they’re being detained for the crime of threatening those particular acts of violence.
“For Obama to give this speech in which he is taking away rights GUARANTEED by the Constitution of the United States (right to a speedy trial, to not be held without charges) is criminal.”
What rights are you speaking about? These are not American citizens being detained, they are prisoners of war from foreign countries. They are not protected by the U.S. Constitution at all and are only protected by the Geneva Convention. Accordingly, as long as we are at war we have every right to detain all prisoners taken off the battlefield for the entire conflict - no matter how many years that may take.
In fact, I don’t think we can have trials for prisoners of war unless it is to determine if they commited a war crime.
Even the US government has admitted that some of these “terrorists” were sold to the US for the money it would bring.
I read the Tabuga report and was horrified. The detention itself is bad enough. But what was done to some detainees was even worse.
I watched a documentary where some of the released prisoners or their family members were interviewed.
They admitted to being terrorists after being tortured. That in itself is a war crime under the Geneva Conventions.
No one from our government has been charged or held in “indefinite detention” as a result.
The Geneva Conventions were written for the express purpose of what to do with foreign nationals held as prisoners. The US was one of the main drafters of the Conventions.
The Conventions are kinda like the Constitution. You don’t throw them out for revenge. War is not unique to this century. Neither is terrorism.
We are supposed to be the most powerful Nation on earth. What are we so afraid of?
General Tabuga reported on abuses at Abu Ghraib. What that have to do with Guantanimo Bay?
There were only 3 terrorists tortured at Gitmo and they were leaders of Al Qaeda.
“Even the US government has admitted that some of these “terrorists” were sold to the US for the money it would bring.”
Where did you get that from?
The people detained in Gitmo are war prisoners and are not entitled to any rights granted under the U.S. Constitution. The fact that we are granting them hearings to state their case goes well beyond what the Geneva Convention demands.
Whomever is detained and it is confirmed that they are Islamic terrorists then I don’t want any of them released just to become threats to us again. This is a war and I don’t understand what people do not understand about that.
People were paid to turn in members of AlQ. Remebmer even Bush admitted that not all of these people were terroristsand some have been released tom their home countries.
Don’t like your neighbor? Say he’s a terrorist.
Want dear old dad out of the way so you marry his daughter? Say he’s a terrorist.
How do we who is a terrorist or not? Even some JAG officers who are military prosecutors began to protest the hiding of/lack of evidence in these cases.
They were there at GITMO. Or are they lying too?
I saw an interview with the Admiral in charge of GITMO. He saw nothing wrong with “enhanced interrogation techniques” to include water boarding.
Waterboarding was used on only three prisoners and has not been used in years since and at that time it was only for extraordinary cases and circumstances - not arbitrarily.
I think you are exaggerating a little bit here. Initially they probably rounded up more people than necessary, but look what FDR did during World War II by detaining all Japanese Americans in concentration camps for the duration of the war. Leaders will over react in a time of extraordinary crisis in order to safeguard citizens.
How do you know who is Al Qaeda or not after picking them off the “battlefield?” That is a problem and the purpose of hearings.
Of course they are protected by the Constitution. The Bill of Rights of The US Constitution applies to PERSONS or do you think the writers of the First Ten Amendments were too dumb and forgot the word Citizen?
The U.S. Constitution applies to U.S. citizens and does not apply to war prisoners. It would be worthwhile reading back in history and try to find anywhere when the U.S. extended our civil rights to POWs. You will not. They are not entitled to speedy trials or miranda rights or any other civil rights we have. Those people are protected only under the Geneva Convention and frankly we are treating these Gitmo prisoners a lot better than we treat our own prisoners.
You know very little about the constitution. Furthermore find a link where Congress has declared War. Read The Constitution and get an Education. Just because some asshole says we’re at war doesn’t make it legal as per the Constitution. Maybe that’s why every case that’s been before the Supreme court, the Government has lost.
Cite the passage of the application to Citizens then I’ll admit you are right.
How about you’re own oppinion rather than right wing talking points that have been discredited over and over ad nauseam.
There is this story, just doing a superficial search.
Clinton Proposes Vote to Reverse Authorizing War
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/04/washington/04cong.html
I am sorry but your comments show a complete lack of knowledge of the Constitution.
The author of this wrote about rights under the Constitution without citing any specifics. The same with you.
If you make a claim give specifics - otherwise don’t say anything. In both cases it is clear that you don’t have answers.
Where in the Bill of Rights is the word Citizen.
This is not a tough question even fifth graders can answer this, anyway it’s open book, you can look it up.
I just went through the Constitution and did not see a section called “Bill of Rights.” But before addressing that here is a “fifth grade” lesson for free.
The people who the Constitution applies to is in the Preamble:
As far as the so-called “Bill of Rights” please find that for me? There is no Bill of Rights in the Constitution. It is a label that has been applied to the first 10 Amendments of the Constitution that provide certain rights to “the people” which is a constant reference to the citizens referred to in the Preamble.
These foreign terrorist soldiers have no rights under our Constitution, but will if we allow them which would be the first time in U.S. history that prisoners of war have been provided those rights.
If you now understand that you can advance to 6th grade.
I believe you are right on. Our constitution applies to our citizens and to our soil. It has no relevance to foreigners on foreign soil whatsoever. Were that it did, and if all nations had this… then we may not be at war right now at all. This one point…
I think it is more appropriate that the constitution recognized that we already were born with these rights inherently, as opposed to granting them to us. Something we are born with is harder to amend and take away later. We need to guard our rights like they were the very air we breathe.
Excellent post and the need to read and understand the Constitution is paramount in these dark days where it is threatened on every front by our own government. We the People of the United States need to protect this most precious definition of our freedom and society. It is our Constitution and it is our right to defend it. Our laws and rights are ours alone and war prisoners, or anyone threatening our country, has no rights under our Constitution. They have a right to humane and fair treatment and a trial in military court, period. The USA is more fair in it’s treatment of pow’s than just about any other country in the world. Stop with the US hate and either leave for some other country or get on board with what we are all sworn to protect as US citizens.
hokma, did you also vote for GWB?
2000…no, 2004…yes. That whole “reporting for duty” bit was just too much.
Voted for Gore in ‘00.
Hokma, you seem to be under the (mistaken) impression that Obama was speaking only of foreign nationals. Perhaps you should actually WATCH the video first before commenting on its content. I am talking about US being held in “Prolonged Detention,” American citizens. You know, the same ones on whom Obama wants to spy without a warrant?? A terrorist can be homegrown, you know - like TImothy McVeigh, remember him?
And I’m pretty damn sure the Constitution covers US. Um, the Bill of Rights, too, just to be clear.
Though the others are correct abt the Conventions and what is required to uphold them as well.
Nice try, though, at trying to divert attention from what OBAMA is proposing by (misguided) nitpicking of what I wrote. Thankfully, the other readers here are pretty wise to those moves. We’ve been dealing with them for over a year now, after all…
jbjd, thanks! And well done bracing yourself - that’s one of the things I like abt you - you go the extra mile to obtain information. I hope you have recovered now from having to watch!
Obama painted himself into a corner by making campaign statements and siding with far left idealogues to get elected. Now that he is elected he realizes that he can’t close Gitmo that easily and bringing those prisoners to the U.S. for trials is fraught with problems.
The fundamental problem with far left people like Maddow is that they fail to understand that we are at war – that these are military actions to secure the safety of the U.S. – and they try to portray what we are doing as a bunch of petty criminal actions.
By using the term “crimes” we are being distracted from why these people were detained for in the first place. It is a war and they are an enemy army of primarily foreign nationals. Under the Geneva Convention, the United States is entitled to capture enemy combatants and hold them until the end of the war: win or lose. We are under no obligation to have a trial of any prisoner of war. And the purpose of detaining them is so that they cannot battle you again.
The large majority of detainees are not U.S. citizens and are not protected under the Constitution. The claim that they are is just playing on people’s ignorance to serve an ideological purpose.
Show me another war where the U.S. treated our POWs like criminals?
As far as prolonged detention, exactly how many years did FDR detain innocent Japanese American citizens in detention centers during World War II and they were never a threat to us?
Nice try, but Americans are beginning to “get it” and the false premise that prisoners of war are entitled to rights under our Constitution is THE most bogus B.S. I have ever seen perpetrated. The Obama people have been portraying the U.S. as the reason we got attacked and why Muslim terrorists hate us. He is now realizing the truth but has already boxed himself into a corner because of the empty rhetoric that got him elected.
The Constitution and their Amendments are for only “We the people of the United States” and not for people who are not. A so-called Constitutional scholar like Obama should know that.
I get what you are saying, and understand the point you are trying to make, but in the video, he never said this only applied to people who are not US citizens. And I think we can all agree that detaining Japanese Americans was WRONG. But Obama has reserved that very right for himself by never making the distinction between US citizens and others.
I was speaking strictly of rights extended to US citizens, btw.
But I do get the point you are trying to make. Thanks for your passionate comments - I certainly agree with you abt the corner into which Obama has painted himself - and how. Still, some of his supporters, like the diehard Bush supporters, will continue their fawning and lack of investigation into what he is actually doing. Sad, but true…
Obama is a very dangerous man. You have to watch what he says very carefully (with or without teleprompters).
He is exceptionally good at creating destractions to what his real goal is. He creates illusions. So far it is working for him but reality is quickly catching up as will declines in his poll numbers.
I think it is interesting that Bush Jr. and Bill Clinton are on the road together doing, apparerntly, friendly speaking gigs. Bill doesn’t need the money and he does not forget who his friends are and who his enemies are. Obama pretends he is smart - Bill Clinton is smart.
The rights listed in the United States Constitution apply to all PERSONS on American sovereign territory, whether or not they are citizens. You might try reading the document before spouting off on to whom it does and does not apply. The people held at Guantanamo are on US sovereign territory, and therefore are entitled to the protection of the Constitution. The Constitution says nothing about the rights being only for citizens. The only mention of citizens in the Constitution is in the requirements for office and voting. Every illegal alien is fully vested in Constitutional rights the minute he steps across the border. So are the prisoners at Guantanamo. Go back to school and take a class in civics before you start telling people what the Constitution says. Or better yet, just read it. Thoroughly.
Not true at all. Not even close.
How so? If these people are on US soil, it would seem to me that they are covered. According to you, they aren’t, so then it becomes a crap-shoot. Who is and who isn’t an American? And in the long run, does it really matter? Apparently you think some people are better than others, sort of like That One does. I’d say you’re scum but than that would be an insult to microscopic life of all sorts.
R3A, a major thanks for this post; sorry to say, I hadn’t watched the prior posting of BO’s speech in front of the Constitution because, between Maddow and him, this was too much to bear. But, with your encouraging words, I braced myself and, tonight, watched the video, from beginning to end. Unbelievable, from so many angles: his abominable proposal - no, scratch that, I expect the worst from him, her spot on analysis, and a rebuke from the NYT (which paper I also stopped reading).
The Mellowing of William Jefferson Clinton from NY Times magazine
The U.S. Constitution applies to U.S. citizens and does not apply to war prisoners.
*********
But US law does. The Geneva Conventions, esp. Common Article 3 in theses cases are part of US law. Also two rulings by the SC also cover these prisoners…Hamdan v Rumsfeld and Boumediene v. Bush.
AGAIN.. The Constitution says NOTHING about applying only to citizens. It applies to all PERSONS on American sovereign territory. Therefore it applies to the prisoners at Guantanamo, unless you want to try proving they aren’t persons. If you people are going to argue about the Constitution, perhaps you should read it first.
I didn’t vote for the Mother Fucker and I’m sure Rachel Maddow did. So Rachel rant on for the corporate machine that signs your paycheck. I guess that the ratings are down? Or else you would be singing the praises of the master barack.
I see this as a justification for the possible future arrests of those “right-wing extremists” that Janet Napolitano warned us about. And that nebulous phrase may open wide like an umbrella to cover any who dare to question the Obama administration. Martin Niemöller’s poem, “First They Came…” seems applicable here.
Hey, I TOLD YOU SO! Since day one, we spoke about this double-faced, controled blackmailed puppet. Rachel the “Madcow,” outraged for Barry Soetoro’s flip? Give me a break..MSNBC, and its parent company helpped put Soetoro into the OO! She is a total hipocritical moron. Corporate controlled media has ruined this country. Along with the major corrupt corporations and politicians. We need to create a new party. One which looks out for America. Told-you. You should have voted for Hillary Clinton! FOOL!
controlled…
Yup–Hi there, Rachel–Welcome to REALITY!! It’s a shame you’ve never been here before!! Thanks for nothing. Now move aside.
“blackmailed puppet”? Please do tell what you mean!
BO’s questionable citizenship status and the failure to produce not only a genuine birth certificate, but other records.
Moreover, Steve1, on another issue, does Maddow still think Obama is for same-sex marriage? As hypocrite Maddow even given HRC credit for the new policy on granting same-sex couples’ benefits in the State Dept? Probably not. (I don’t watch MSNBC, so I wouldn’t know.)
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[...] including expanding the Faith Based Initiatives, or my fave, the incredibly unConstitutional “Prolonged Detention” of American Citizens, holding them in custody indefinitely without [...]