To All Those Who Jumped on Janet Napolitano’s Statement…

Radical extremists of any sort are a threat to us all, regardless of party affiliation. Endless finger pointing at each other serves no purpose. I read somewhere that of all of the domestic terrorist/political assasins only Timothy Mcveigh was considered far right. We must unite to save our country.

OK I guess this statement bothers me enough to post. There are crazy people on both sides. In my opinion you give a one sided picture. Do we really have to list the crazy people on the left? There are plenty. Whatever your opinion of the doctor is, in my book abortion, especially late term, is no different than torture. Does that give another person the right to kill the doctor? No! But why is there praise given to people who speak out and wail against so called torture, while late term abortions are glorified? Taking a life, any life, even the unborn life, is murder in my book. Lets be fair!

This is a very sad situation. It is also sad that it is politicized. I`m sick of being played by both parties. It`s time for grown ups!

I was just over at HP reading the comments - they’re almost ready to propose Dr. Tiller for sainthood, and since he was one of the few doctors in the country still performing third term abortions, I guess that falls into the realm of “glorifying”, eh? Look, I am pro-choice, have been for probably longer than most of you have been on this earth. But I draw the line at third term abortions where the doctor has to go into the baby’s skull with a tube while it’s still in the birth canal to suck out its brains so its not alive when it’s born. And the myth that these third term abortions are all to protect the health of the mother have been debunked by none other than Planned Parenthood itself. I wish I could provide a link, will search later, but the reasons given most by the women interviewed were that they didn’t know they were pregmant sooner, or that they were afraid to tell their parents, boyfriend, whomever. These third term abortions are murder to me, if that makes me in opposition to what most of you believe, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Thanks for the O’Reilly links DC Media girl, I had missed all that.
And especially thanks for covering Dr. Tiller’s murder. Outside of the “women blogs’, there’s been very little coverage, and while the little that I’ve seen in articles has largely been neutral, the comments are often in support of the murder, from the name callers:
“What’s the problem with the pro-death crowd? Tiller was killed by one of their own - a post-birth abortionist whose violent background looks quite simlar to bill ayers.”
to the inadvertently humorous:
“Funny - many of those who are sobbing for poor Tiller right now would have no qualms, if it were possible, to go back in time and kill Hitler before he started his murderous rampage.”
Ya mean like with an abortion?

HARP: No, I read it on a blog last night, and they had the link, but I was so tired I just never thought to bookmark it. It was a study paid for by Planned Parenthood, they interviewed 1900 women who had aborted pregnancies, and of that number 420 were late second or third term abortions. Of the 420 women interviewed, not one said she had sought an abortion to protect her own health. The majority of the 420 gave the 2 reasons I explained in my post, and then there were other reasons as well, can’t remember, sorry.
HuffPo has some links under their article on this murder, one of them being a horrific story of a girl and her treatment at the hands of Dr. Tiller, they even have a picture of her within the story. I just don’t believe the guy is the saint everyone has been making him out to be. That does not mean I am condoning his murder, as I find that equally heinous.

DCMediagirl,

I really don`t BELIEVE that our former Kansas governor nor, the new attorney general of Kansas nor, the former attorney general GIVE A SHIT that this doctor is now DEAD!

There are plenty of wackos out there. Any realist is aware of this fact.

I believe both political parties have this “IN YOU FACE” childish response to this “emotional” issue.

Cooler heads should prevail.

I am sorry that this doctor is dead. I care, you care but, I don`t believe ANYMORE that politicians care that this doctor is DEAD is what I am saying. It`s all drama to them.

This murderer was a nut. I believe that anyone who takes anyone else`s life is out of their mind. It is a fact that there are people out there who are out of their minds. The situation in Kansas should never have been allowed to get to this fever pitch. SOMEONE IS DEAD, DAMMIT!

I`m tired of being played by both parties who don`t give a shit.

I`m upset that someone died and politicians don`t care.

HARP, no I read it somewhere in the middle of last night and wasn’t smart enough to bookmark it. It was a study commissioned by Planned Parenthood of 1900 women who had undergone abortions, and 420 of them were either in the late second term or the third term. It was very interesting and completely debunked the prevailing narrative that these late term abortions are always to either save the life of the mother or because the child was defective in some way. I’m searching for it now…….

First of all, my heart goes out to the family and friends of Dr. George Tiller. No person should have to experience the cold blooded murder of a loved one. It is simply horrible.

Napolitano implied that rampaging white supremacist Iraq veterans posed a threat to national security on par with Muslim extremists. I guess step two was to begin monitoring people the government doesnt like, to prevent “future crimes”. This is a sippery slope folks, step 1 on the way to police state.

This event was personal - the murderer wanted to kill this specific person for a specific reason. Those sorts of crimes are extremely difficult to prevent. Dr. Tiller’s murder should not be used as a political tool to advance government agendas.

If there was a failure of law enforcement, let it be fixed but no, I dont need DHS monitoring my telephone, just because I voted McCain.

This clearly was not an act of terrorism…it was simple murder…..obama said that it was a “heinous act of violence’……but so is sticking a metal rod into a baby’s head and sucking out its brains…..thats the cold hard truth…

DCMediagirl,

I respectfully believe that you have the right to your opinion but, I have the right to mine.

I believe that we are all being played. We are just all pawns in their little games.

Holder is the same person who called us all cowards when it comes to race yet he dismissed the charges against the New Black Panthers. Isn`t it possible for some wacko to be pushed to the limit regarding voter intimidation?

Yes, Holder is sending US Marshals but, is anyone going to own up to the fact that the politicians in Kansas allowed this situation to get to this fever pitch?

The economic situation in this country has pushed plenty of people to the brink financially as to whether they can support their families or not. That is another emotional situation.

What happened to the PUMA`s last year was another emotional situation.

The “IN YOUR FACE” has to stop otherwise there will be more of the same. Doesn`t anybody respect the fact that actions have consequences?

You are right that there are plenty of terrorists, not just the usual ones.

My point is our baiting politicians are creating more of them.

America needs politicians who behave as responsible adults not children.

I`m sorry DCmedia girl, I no longer believe politicians in either party care. Someone`s life has been abruptly cut short but to these politicians this doctor is merely a casualty of war.

I don`t believe Holder cares. It`s just more drama.

More on the shooter:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/69151.html

DCMediagirl,

Let`s just agree to disagree. As I said before you have the right to your opinion.

I realize that you feel someone`s life was taken that shouldn`t be. That is how I feel also.

I am not calling you names as you are calling me by saying that I have an anarchic view of the world. I will excuse that statement because I understand that you are angry.

I`m sorry but I don`t feel that right wingers are the only ones to blame here. Politicians deserve their share of the blame.

Try to have a nice day. And thanks for the discussion.

Wow…things got heated fast here.

DCMediagirl- I understand your point of view on your post, but the anger that you are displaying in your post and in your comments aren’t helping your cause.

For one thing, it seems you are painting “right wingers” and “pro-lifers” with a very broad brush. There are thousands upon thousands of pro-lifers whose only form of protest of abortion are either prayer services or peaceful protests. Yes, it’s sad that one of those who were pro-life went in the wrong direction, but that is not the behavior that is advocated by Republicans or Pro-life advocates.

There was another doctor who does late term abortions on one of the cable news programs today and he compared pro-lifer’s to the Taliban. Now how is that constructive? Inciting more anger, more hate?

Someone tell me how this nutjob is any different from Bill Ayers, and then maybe I’ll justify an arguement

Killing an abortion doctor, while deplorable, is not a threat to national security. You perfectly well know this, and to maintain otherwise is immoral and indecent.

Stop lying. Stop the agitprop. Stop it.

Seizing upon this to attack you political opponents is particularly shameful and shows that you have no decent regard for actual events, the people involve or the Nation at large.

Likewise attempting to glorify an late term abortion “doctor” for your political ends is immoral in the extreme. While vigilantism and murder cannot be countenanced by any decent, moral person, neither can infanticide be tolerated. Though Tiller did not “get what was coming to him”, he was a principle actor in acts that from a moral standpoint are highly questionable. To maintain otherwise merely wallow in leftist cant and immorality.

This article most clearly shows the moral corruption, hypocrisy and depravity of the Left.

Stalin and Mao kill hundred of millions of people.
Abortion has claimed more than 40 million innocent lives. I suggest that you reflect on those fact before you further debase yourself. I doubt that you will take this advice. If you were an honest and decent person with a shred of integrity, you would own up to what a disaster the Left has been to human life and dignity, but you are not an honest person, you are a cultural Marxist.

By demonizing abortion opponents, which comprise at least half the country (really more if you discount Democrat voter fraud, illegal camapign funding and media manipulation), you are courting a civil war with your agitprop. By insisting that abortion is a act of liberty and thus some sort of morally positive act, you are aligning yourself against centuries of moral knowledge and advance. You are standing against civilization itself.

Stop imagining that vast majority of decent Americans hold abortion in te high regard that you do.

You may regard it as some sort of sacrament to Marxism, but most of us think, at best, that it as a sign of profound moral failure, and, at worst, that it is murder.

It is this Marxist coup that is being foisted on us that is the real threat to national security, not the death of an abortion doctor, however regrettable that death might be.

So now those who support pro-life positions (a majority now in the country recent polling finds) are basically supporters of “terrorists”. Half the country now can be shown as supporting terrorism as you define it.

How is this supposed to help the pro-choice movement? Shaming people into dropping their pro-life support by labeling them whacky fundie Christian terrorists? What next? Should we waterboard pro-life activists so they can tell us the next doctor they plan to murder?

And as far as being a nation of laws, the killer will be prosecuted and most likely sent to jail. See, the laws work.

what would you do/how would you react if a madman stormed a hospital and murdered all the babies in the maternity ward?

legal or not, to anti-abortionists, abortion is murder. it is the equivelant to murdering children. just because you or I may be pro-choice, it doesn’t mean everyone else is - or that they can stomach it, or accept it.

to some people, I would imagine, to not do anything to try to stop someone like this doctor is to just sit aside and allow a madman to murder babies.

i absolutely do not condone the murder of this doctor.

but i understand that there are those (and I must say, I am not in favor of late term abortions) who truly believe what is done to babies in the womb in the third trimester is murder.

In fact, isn’t it true that if a pregnant woman is stabbed, or beaten, and the infant in the womb dies, the assailant can be tried for murder?

and if a mother gives birth to a baby, even one premature, and allows it to die, she can be tried for murder?

can’t a mother who is pregnant but does drugs be charged with child endangerment or wrongful death if the fetus dies?

it’s a slipperly slope, indeed.

as far as Oreilly… well, he truly believes abortion is murder, and that Tiller is a baby killer. So, like I said in my first sentance, what would you do if a madman stormed a hospital and killed a bunch of new born infants?

to people like Oreilly, i assume, there isn’t much difference between in the womb and outta the womb - legal or not.

By the logic above, I supposed Napolitano is then responsible for This. Yes I know - Of course that’s absurd.

Alarmism at it’s best.

Agreed with ForMySons. Tell me how a rightwing murderer is any different than William Ayers or his wife.

And since we’re there. How is it okay for Obama to be such close friends with a known terrorist but not okay for others to support religious views? NOTE: I didn’t say extreme rightwing religious views.

By the way, I am pro-choice so don’t rake me personally over the coals.

I agree that Dr Tiller’s murderer should be prosecuted to the furthest extent of the law. If the killer is a part of a group that advocates and encourages such violence they should be punished as accessories.

But Ms. Napalitano’s list of potential terrorists included “disgruntled returning veterans, constitutionalists, and Ron Paul supporters.”

These types of extremeist groups have been around long before Ms. Napolitano arrived on the scene and the Patriot Act was passed. When captured they were prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Are so-called liberals/progressives now for the Patriot Act that they marched against?

If I remember correctly at least part of the federal government’s defintion of terrorism is the use of intimindation, coercion, or violence to achieve a political objective. Isn’t that what happened at at least one polling place with the New Black Panthers? But AG Holder dropped that case. Isn’t that what Ayers did? But he’s as free as a bird and is a professor.

I hope this murderer and all who gave him assistance are taken care of by the laws against murder on the books.

This is COMPLETE BULL!!

What that man did was wrong there’s no doubt about that, but to somehow label all those who disagree with abortion as responsible is just as bad. You yourself are engaging in the same behavior that you accuse O’Reilly of- inciting anger, disgust and hatred towards specific groups. In this case, conservatives. If I get hit by an out of control leftist, should I blame you? Do not try and add the disclaimer, your reference of that Napolitano report and link to that article told me all I need to know. The final sentence is moot.

O’Reilly characterizing Tiller as a baby killer may offend some people, but for pro life people, abortion is murder. Period. Call the characterization, grossly exaggerated, but it in no way shape or form means that you should go out and kill another person because they perform abortions. Tiller’s death was murder. Period. And terrorism is the correct term to use here.

As far as him being a threat to “national security”-
1. It’s funny to me how people on the left/right are willing to co opt the very phraseology that they claim to hate unless it suits their purpose. You claim he was a foot soldier in some movement, exactly what group did he belong to? What was the movement? What do they want to accomplish? I know people threatened Tiller- but what group did they belong to? If you find the group(s)- then put them on the list. If not, then it was just a personal vendetta against Tiller. I see no evidence of organization. You’re just waging a broad war against anyone who thinks abortion is murder. That was the problem with Napolitano’s report, (and your reasoning) she never defined exactly who was the threat. Thanks to Napolitano, I became a right wing extremist, and I work in a freaking library.

2. The man is in custody, which means he is no longer a threat to anyone. If they wish to seek the death penalty against him, they have every right to.

Whew, I am exhausted from reading this entire post and comments! Thank goodness Larry, Susan and team have the guts to post hard topics like this. I interpret this post as a reminder that extremists come in all varieties, including some from America.

I just love some of the comments about how the anti-abortion folks should be out in full force condemning Roeder, to show how they’re somehow more “moderate”.
Such a suggestion reminds me of how the Right-wingers were constantly spouting off how moderate Muslims should publicly condemn the actions of Muslim terrorists and extremists while, at the same time, these Righties were blanketly writing and speaking about how Islam was a violent religion. The funny thing was that moderates in Islam were typically ignored by American media or, when they did make the media rounds, the righties simply ignored them outright and continued with the general “Islam = violence” meme. Also, when matters would turn to the Mideast and how moderate Muslims should be more forceful in speaking out against the extremists, the righties would simply ignore the fact that these guys were the equivalent of abortion providers in this country–liable to be assassinated or murdered for their actions.

No less than 2 months ago, you guys (NOQUARTER) were making fun of DHS’s report.

http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/17/suspected-radical-republican-bees-infiltrate-the-white-house-grounds/

-Uppity Woman April 17, 2009 at 2:55 PM

It’s always funny until someone loses an eye.

Another point I’d like to make. I frankly don’t give a shit whether “you” personally believe that abortion is murder nor whether “you” believe that late-term abortion is “infanticide”. The fact is that, if ALL life is so sacrosanct, then be prepared to pay for that ideal. You CANNOT simply stop caring for these “people” while they’re in the uterus. Once they’ve been born, they still have to be cared for and raised. (And the odds are that a child whose mother had considered a late-term abortion will be in dire need of major, and very costly, medical care, but where are the “right-to-lifers” when the kids have been born? Pretty much, they’re gone. They don’t care once that child has emerged from the uterus.)
For the final time, an abortion REGARDLESS of when it happens should only be a concern for the woman and her doctor. (If the woman wants to involve others, that should be HER choice and hers alone.) I so love the fucking hypocrisy of these people who are so paranoid about “governmental intrusion” in every other aspect of their lives can’t get it through their skulls that the government has no business deciding what a woman does when she’s in the doctor’s office. Bottom line: If you don’t support abortion, DON’T HAVE ONE. If you don’t want your underaged daughter to have an abortion, provide her with useful birth control information and make sure she understands the consequences of unprotected sex if she decides to become sexually active while in her teens. (While ostensibly less of a concern for your underaged son, he too should be made aware of the consequences of unprotected sex and HIS part in using birth control if HE becomes sexually active as a teen.) If you’re a man and you want to really do your part in preventing abortions, have a fucking vasectomy; otherwise, you can just keep quiet. YOU don’t have to worry about getting pregnant and YOU don’t have to deal with the effects of pregnancy or the emotional turmoil of deciding whether you want the baby or not.

Governor Palin Statement on George Tiller

“I feel sorrow for the Tiller family. I respect the sanctity of life and the tragedy that took place today in Kansas clearly violates respect for life. This murder also damages the positive message of life, for the unborn, and for those living. Ask yourself, ‘What will those who have not yet decided personally where they stand on this issue take away from today’s event in Kansas?’

Regardless of my strong objection to Dr. Tiller’s abortion practices, violence is never an answer in advancing the pro-life message.”

Governor Sarah Palin
http://www.sarahpac.com/news/

This is getting so stupid about trying to blame one party or the other for being sexist…

Yes both parties have their idiots who seem to spit out sexist innuendoes more often than not. Yet the vast majority of these idiots are not party poster people.

Most of the noted sexist idiots just happen to be noted people who just happen to spurt out political views very similar to one of the political parties. That by no means insinuates that it the political standing of a particular political.

Right now most of us dont even pay attention to the word Racist because it was so over used during last year’s election.

If us women dont quit pointing fingers at the political parties we will end up with the same problem.
Lets quit over using the word sexist and quit jumping on the band wagon of someone just because they are female…

Can we not learn from the mistakes of the last election??

I was surfing the blogs before running some errands this morning, and I kept seeing posts about the horrible pro-lifers defending this murder, writing their obscene posts about how Dr. Tiller got his just rewards and will be judged in Heaven, on and on and on. The anonimity of the internet gives me pause as to how many of the “obscene” posts are really from the pro-life community and how many are from the left posing as such and trying to incite others to believe that all pro-lifers are radical like Mr. Roeder, thus making it easier to buy the “terrorist” label and affix it to that particular group of people. I remember during the primaries the horrific racial posts about Obama, many of them from “Hillary supporters”, and wondering if many of them weren’t plants to make reasonable people buy the “racist” theme that the Obama people profited from so enormously.
Pro-lifers are the lady next door, the man who fixes your car, the co-worker you share a lunch table with at work. The far right wing extremists should be watched very carefully, as should those from the far left, but let’s not fall into the trap of labeling their entire belief system as “terrorism” just because of the vile actions of one man.
Bill Ayers was a terrorist, and his actions, and the actions of those like him, caused great harm to the legitimacy of the citizen campaign against the Vietnam War. I would hate to see that same thing happen to the majority of peaceful, good people in the pro-life movement, many of whom I know well and consider friends.

Comment lost in spin cycle

I am a big fan of the Bill O’Reilly show.I don’t think there is anything to apolgize for. The killing of this Dr is indeed a tragedy. However, O’Reilly reported the facts. So how is he responsible for this man’s death.

my prayers to the families of both.
the innocents must suffer the most..

Tiller’s death did not vindicate Napolitano. SHe made a mistake when she labeled domestic terrorists as Right Wing extremists and made no mention of left wing extremists or muslim extremists. A black extremist gun down 2 soldiers in Arkansas today, do you see conservatives making outrageous remarks about it? Scott Roeder was a known anarchist to the Homeland secuirty. The killer of Tiller was not a conservative. He was an anarchist. And archachist come in all types.

Having said all that, we should not assume this murderer was part of the Pro Life movement anymore than Al Gore or the Sierra Club was responsible for the Unibomber horrendous acts. Remember Al Gore book was found in the cabin fo this terrorist.

Oops, the original premise of this thread just got owned by Bill OReilly and his experts on - oh, no! IDEOLOGY. Ideology creates the avenue for violence.

Seems the left is just as liable as the right…

Larry, IMO there are some problems. First if the designation is used for political purposes, it will automatically impact my rights. If I am a vocal opponent of whatever group happens to be in power, will Homeland Security allow my phone to be tapped or emails intercepted even though my protests are non violent?

Ted Kazinsky, Terry Nichols, Tim Mcveigh, the abortion clinic bomber, Jose Padilla are all terrorist in my mind, but they are also Americans and entitled to due process. IMO ALL accused of terrorism, whether Americans or not, should be allowed to face their accusers and have access to evidence against them and the public should also be able to see that evidence.

So I have some questions. Will people charged under the Homeland Security’s blanket definition, be allowed their rights or will the Patriot Act provisions be invoked denying the right to habeas corpus, to be charged within the limits of time provided for by law, be held in prolonged detention without benefit of trial?

The current system which, superficially anyway, works to due process isn’t enough? Will they bypass the courts and the legal requirements for warrants? In general, even the name Homeland Security evokes Orwellian government and too much of Big Brother.

As a pro choice leader of my catholic I can tell you that half the congregation is Pro Choice for early term abortions.

However, almost everyone I know believe that late term abortions are wrong.
Killing 60m human beings in the final stages of development and being denied a birth out of convenience is flat out wrong.

Those that defend late term abortions have no morals and look like Neo Marxist’s to me.

As for the doctor… I wonder if he ever thought about the consequences of using vice grips on fully formed babies.

So who’s surprised about the rise of republican right wing domestic terrorism..I’m not!

Very predictable and only the beginning…
As the anti-Americans continue their fast track to lawlessness and Marxism and as we watch our traditions and heritage being taken away from us, you will see a continued rise of these extreme groups.
In fact when hyper inflation kicks in the country will be bankrupt and communities and groups will form their own militias to protect their interests.
Enjoy!

…about right-wing extremists posing a national security threat, how’s this working for you? Oh, and remember him?

What?

Governor Palin Statement on George Tiller and William Long
June 1, 2009
Governor Palin Statement on George Tiller
“I feel sorrow for the Tiller family. I respect the sanctity of life and the tragedy that took place today in Kansas clearly violates respect for life. This murder also damages the positive message of life, for the unborn, and for those living. Ask yourself, ‘What will those who have not yet decided personally where they stand on this issue take away from today’s event in Kansas?’
Regardless of my strong objection to Dr. Tiller’s abortion practices, violence is never an answer in advancing the pro-life message.”
Governor Sarah Palin
http://www.sarahpac.com/news/news32.aspx

June 2, 2009
Governor Palin Statement on William Long
“The stories of two very different lives with similar fates crossed through the media’s hands yesterday - both equally important but one lacked the proper attention. The death of 67-year old George Tiller was unacceptable, but equally disgusting was another death that police believe was politically and religiously motivated as well.
William Long died yesterday. The 23-year old Army Recruiter was gunned down by a fanatic; another fellow soldier was wounded in the ambush. The soldiers had just completed their basic training and were talking to potential recruits, just as my son, Track, once did.
Whatever titles we give these murderers, both deserve our attention. Violence like that is no way to solve a political dispute nor a religious one. And the fanatics on all sides do great disservice when they confuse dissention with rage and death.”
Governor Sarah Palin
http://www.sarahpac.com/news/news33.aspx

[...] course the crazies were out to justify the murder of Dr. Tilley, while of course saying that they do not condone [...]

I have never heard O’Reilly promote the death of this doctor. I remember him reporting the news on the doctor’s indictment on late abortions, but never did O’Reilly say anything about killing this man.

Incidentally, since when can’t a journalist have an opinion on this type of abortion? I think people should stop trying to find someone to blame for this doctor’s death. Frankly, he received more publicity from his indictment than O’Reilly ever gave him!