Food for Thought
By dcmediagirl on June 16, 2009 at 8:25 AM in Current Affairs
Some of you expressed shock and horror that Janet Napolitano included returning war veterans in her list of potential threats.
Keep in mind that recruiters, who are under intense and sometimes unbearable pressure, have been forced to lower the bar to meet quotas. Wherever you have criminals, rapists, gang members and other upstanding citizens, chances are you’ll have trouble on the battlefield and when those troops return home.
And then there’s this. Lovely.
Before any of you post comments accusing me of not Supporting The Troops, I hope it’s obvious that I’m not implying that ALL fighting men and women are criminals. Imagine, if you will, the difficulties professional soldiers face when they try to control these men and/or issue orders, or when they expect these soldiers to behave professionally. The simple truth is that some of these soldiers are dangerous, pose a threat to their fellow soldiers and certainly are capable of committing violence when they return.
So gays have to adhere to “don’t ask, don’t tell” but neo-Nazis get to proudly wear their racism on their sleeve. FUBAR.
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Had she specified that former convict vets might now be very well trained former convict vets, or mitigated the categorical lumping somehow, then yes I could grant her a modicum of understanding. However, she did not do that, and this reflects Obozo’s paranoia of the military going so far as to remove ceremonial scabbards from Annapolis grads decking out. Every time he visits any base, all side arms of those in his presence are confiscated.
The fact is that some of these troops are psychotic and dangerous. Period. They should never have been allowed to don the uniform in the first place, but unfortunately that horse left the barn long ago. By the way, it’s sad but true that some vets snap when they return due to untreated PTSD. Too many have been written off and denied treatment by their country. Unfortunately it’s their loved ones and not a few strangers have paid the price.
So true Media Girl
Had to laugh at your expression that horse left the barn We use that all the time up here in Northern New England.
But its true – you can’t put spilled water back in the container.
The service did a serious clean up job AFTER the Vietnam war. However, they did it during PEACE times. How do you fight two wars, continually sending PTSD and wounded Vets back into combat, and spruce up the army to former standards at the same time?
IMO a draft would cause more problems than it cures. Seems there are no easy answers. Sure would like to hear from some Vets on ideas they have about this.
Tminu said:
“However, she did not do that, and this reflects Obozo’s paranoia of the military going so far as to remove ceremonial scabbards from Annapolis grads decking out. Every time he visits any base, all side arms of those in his presence are confiscated.”
Wow. That’s an eyeopener. I hadn’t heard the bit on the Annapolis grads or the sidearm restrictions. Paranoia, indeed!
As for Napolitano’s memo, the objection is the generalization of returning vets. Certainly, some men do come home with serious problems. And as a society as a whole but in the military in particular, we have not been good about addressing mental/emotional impacts. For instance, we have many of these kids coming home with head injury. Most people don’t realize that even a concussion can have a profound affects on patients. And if you’re lucky enough to survive a serious head trauma, emotional and cognitive impairment often comes with the territory. Add your gang members and felons to the mix and yes, there is a problem to address.
But it’s the whole cloth approach that ticked a lot of people off. If you want people to howl then appearing to disrespect our military will definitely get a rise out of most folks.
This Administration for all it’s “feel good” rhetoric seems tone deaf to the public’s basic belief’s and sentiments. There’s still a good deal of patriotism in the country. Stomping it with a toughtless heel is not a good idea to build anything resembling a concensus. I don’t think Homeland Security meant to do this but a careless hand produces the same result.
I’m not understanding why the military should get special treatment. The soldiers are not deities. How is it “disrespecting” to try to keep troops and civilians safe from criminals and psychopaths? Hell, some of the people who are being brought in sound like they’d be more at home lifting weights in a prison yard than an Army uniform.
Do you have solid statistics on these so-called psychopaths? What percentage of the military could be classified as mentally unbalanced? Where are you getting this info? I’d really like to do some reading on this subject.
It’s the perception of disrespect, DC. And for many folks, perception is reality. Napolitano could have avoided all this blowback if she and her people had been more specific, qualified exactly what sort of vets they were worried about.
They didn’t do that but instead just said Iraqi vets. And people went nuts.
As far as special treatment if we don’t serve our veterans with respect, young kids most of them putting their lives on the line [whether you like the mission or not], then we don’t deserve to have a country.
And we won’t for long. There’s something to be said about nuance. Homeland Security handled this like a heavy-footed elephant. I’m sure it wasn’t intentional. But in the end, it doesn’t matter.
If you consider the current prison population in this country than it seems only logical that young male AA’s should be on the DHS list as well.
he must be paranoid.
Where is the coverage of Obama’s illegal firing of the inspector general?
There is very little coverage but you can read each and every article re: at RBO or google THE REAL BARACK OBAMA and read..she has listed everything to date by the MSM.
the post is pretty lame….in any group…you can find criminal behavior…..it has nothing to do with the type of group……the fact is…..the dhs report was taken over by left wing zealots and should be recognized as such….
Following your logic, right wing extremists get a pass. Nice.
If there are soldiers in the ranks who are violent and dangerous who are then reintegrated into society every bit as violent and dangerous as they were before going to war — if not more so — then hell yes, they should be scrutinized.
right wing zealots dont get a pass…….but they didnt write the report……and I thought thats what you were writing about….the dhs report that singled out the most patriotic among us…Our troops deserve much better
Neo-nazis, skinheads, criminals, rapists…your definition of “patriotism” differs from mine.
Wow! such a snarky reply. Please show me where I even hinted at calling neo-nazis and rapists patriotic. I didnt… you like taking things out of context dont you. It diminishes your skills as a blogger…why not stick to the facts? People who feel the need to purposely misconstrue what others have said are very insecure in their original arguments. a classic example of the heisenburg theory of observation
Thanks, dcmediagirl. I think lowered admissions standards also increase the risk to women of being raped in the military. It explains the increase we have heard about.
Ellen D: FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT. I’m surprised more women didn’t respond as you did. Violent criminals and rapists pose the greatest threat to female soldiers. And that’s not Disrespecting the Troops. That’s reality. It’s a safety issue.
I don’t think you have any idea of front lines war to say the greatest threat to female soldiers is their male counterparts. If only that were the case.
where….did you learn…..to write….like this….were you….a telegraph operator….?
Zoom: LOL. Until I read your comment I couldn’t remember where I’d last seen that writing style. You made my day.
zoom. I dont feel the need to explain anything to you.
yeasss po po wretched right wing zealots had to give OVER the power to the po po wretched left wing zealots
while the REST of us common sense thinking individuals sit and watch the STUPID ANAL SHOW!! While the BOTS from the RIGHT and BOTS from the LEFT keep going at it!
friggen dangerous NO NOTHING children – ALL
Guess extreme ideology leads to extreme (and ruthless) behavior, ultimately leading to power. Guess that’s why we average folk just try to live and let live, work hard and get shit on. Even though Comrade Thug O’linsky is systematically decimating the USA, I try to keep in mind what a great nation this really is/was, hope my kids aren’t completely indoctrinated by the Dark Side, and continue to support our troops. All we can do is stay informed.
Amen Ladydawnelle!
This is Vietnam redux. Watch out for those scary crazed vets when they come home!
Even non-combat veterans commit terrible crimes. You can’t weed out every person with criminal tendencies in any organization.
However, I do agree that the lowering of standards to allow felons and those with green cards but not full citizenship into the US military is a very real problem.
This is not a left or right issue. This is the political class failing to do their jobs. Remember all branches of the military are headed by civilians and none of these changes could have been made without their approval.
The politicians send people to war. They never think of the aftermath. Guess ‘Nam didn’t teach us a doggone thing.
Candymarl, You made me think: maybe this is the political class doing exactly what they think their job is–to round up bodies to fight their wars, no matter what reason is behind it. When the pickings get slim, they take anybody with a heartbeat. It makes no difference to them.
‘The political class’–that is definitely a separate class of people.
“The political class” is a different species of people.
Hey, green card people aren’t the same as felons so don’t lump them together.
Lots of Americans – especially fliers – went to Canada and joined the Royal Canadian Air Force to fight Hitler before the U.S. joined the war. They weren’t even green card but they were welcomed. I wouldn’t compare them to felons.
A felon should not even get a green card approved and if they do someone here has let them slip through the cracks.
What the hell are you talking about? Felons being granted green cards? What does that have to do with the price of eggs?
allow felons and those with green cards but not full citizenship into the US military is a very real problem
Stating no felon should be granted a green card or allowed into the military? Sorry did not spell it out for u!
and if the price of eggs is all we had to worry about it may take some of your anger outta your system!
You need to take a step back and relax!
Just Me– I was just about to point out the wording of that phrase could be taken either way. And there probably are more green card felons than we know. But I’ve seen too many instances where people with green cards have given their lives in Iraq for this country to ever quibble about their military service.
There are those who too quickly jump to the wrong conclusions and then run with a wrong-headed idea. (Not referring to you.)
I understand Portia Elizabeth my English was bad!!!
and when some run at 100 miles an hour guess words can be misconstrued
I guess a tongue lashing from some was the least I could expect.
Oh, no! I didn’t mean that at all. Sorry if I sounded scolding. Your English is better than alot of folks. I meant the way the original phrase was written could have been interpreted as felons with green cards OR felons and those with green cards.
IMHO, unless someone is being downright rude, a tongue-lashing is never warranted.
OH LOL not you!!!!
I was speaking of dcmediagirl and her tongue lashing
You merely made me see the point a lot clearer my words could of been read from 2 different angles!
Gee maybe I need to go mix with nature for a while.
A long walk or a good breakfast of scrambled eggs maybe on the menu!!!
Your explanation was perfect Portia Elizabeth. Thank you~~
portia, i am aware there are bad guys/gals in all fields in most places. however that pathetic piece of crap that came out with mention of the soldiers/vets was poorly done and there was no satisfactory explanation or followup. i agree that standards have been lowered and there is just cause for concern. the whole snap and snap back style in this diary leaves me with nothing i want to add at all or read for that matter. i’ll be moving along.
What I meant was some have been offered citizenship if they agree to serve first. I don’t think green card holders are felons. If that’s how it sounded I apologize.
American citizenship status used to be a requirement before one served in the US military. At least that’s what I was told when I joined.
I don’t know Canadian law and didn’t mean to disparage anyone. Sorry if I left anyone with that impression.
BTW I took the online Canadian citizenship test. I scored higher than most Canadians and I’ve never lived there. LOL!
I can sing the first verse of O Canada. Do you think that counts for anything toward citizenship? (I may have to look into that if things keep going in the present direction.)
Sing! Trust me. Really.
LOL! My singing would probably get me deported.
Just Sing!
In WWII, there were lots of immigrants who had not attained citizenship who joined the military, even though not required to, and they got their citizenship when the war was over. They saw nothing wrong with proving they would fight and perhaps die in defense of their new country before getting citizenship. It has been a tradition in this country to fast track the citizenship requirements for persons that choose to serve their new country in the armed forces. It has also been the policy in peacetime, although they didn’t advertise it then. I see no reason to decry this policy. It’s a good way to prove it’s the freedoms and way of life you are interested in, ie. citizenship, rather than the money you could make in the US and send home. Not that I am against people sending money home to help out, it’s a duty in my view. But to equate people with green cards with criminals and say that they shouldn’t be allowed in the military goes against a tradition that goes back generations. Remember, the men who fought the first Revolution in this country weren’t citizens of it either. They were all British citizens, and so were all their soldiers, except for the small French contingent fighting for the rebel side. They all got to be American citizens by serving in the armed forces. Why change that policy now??
Before I ever served, I heard stories of how the Army would take some soldiers who had 2 choices (jail or military) into the fold
MOST times those individuals learned discipline, honor, structure and forgiveness – things they NEVER saw in their civilian world
MOST times those individuals turned into fine citizens.
Blaming the military is beyond stupid. We don’t even draft them or force them to join anymore. They join for many reasons but NONE of them is being FORCED.
And usually the criminal elements are weeded out from within – I’ve done it, and seen others do it. I even had a couple X roomies rat me out for coming home too late and trying to sneak a guy into the barracks!
If one screws up the whole Squad suffers!
Cover ups happen at extremely HIGH levels. IMO.
You miss the point. Of course none of them is being forced. They volunteer. The issue is that because of recruiting pressure the Army has lowered standards to the point that violent, criminal and racist individuals are signing up, no harm no foul.
Like neo-Nazis? Somehow I doubt it.
And the hypocrisy of signing up scumbags while turning gay potential recruits away or forcing them to stay in the closet is completely galling.
Why the fixation with Neo-Nazis and linking them to our military? I’m betting most of those miscreants have never served a day in their lives.
No it isn’t. The military has deliberately and knowingly lowered standards to meet personnel requirements. The military sweeps many vets suffering from PTSD and other psychological problems under the rug. Their families, the good soldiers and the civilians in theater end up paying the price.
When did the “troops” become saints and angles? I grew up on military bases — and the “troops” are human beings. Actually the male married “troops” tended toward domestic violence more than the civilians living near the military bases. And there was a rapist on base when I was a kid — this guy knew which houses had no man at home (he knew the men were deployed). The first group blamed were the civilian workers — nope wasn’t one of them. It turns out that it was an officer who was breaking into homes and raping. Rather than put an officer on trial — he was “sent away”. This “troop” wasn’t a saint.
There are a lot a wonderful people who have served or are serving this country in uniform. At the same time these people are human beings. It is about leadership — it is the duty of the officers to know their personnel and to root out and get rid of those who are unfit to wear the uniform.
I put the blame for the bad apples on the heads of the officers and those who should do the real selection of those in their command. In the Navy it is the Chiefs who have the closest contact with the enlisted personnel — and it is a wise Officer who listens to his/her Chief about personnel problems etc. ANY organization as large as the US military WILL have a few bad apples.
The chain of command is important — and the military chain of command goes up to the President — the bad apples are now his responsibility. It is up to him to give directions about those that are unfit to wear this country’s uniform. These bad apples shouldn’t be simply dump back into the civilian world — they need to be evaluated and perhaps rehabilitated (if at all possible). This is the part that is complicated — and the military has done next to nothing to assist any troops to adjust to life back into the civilian world.
We’ve seen no leadership from 0zero on anything. AND he has no concept or understanding of “the military culture” — so his words have no force of authority for the military.
there is good and bad in everything..
This may be true, but when someone walks into a recruiter’s office covered in swastikas and white power tats or has been arrested for a crime then yes, that person can and should be blocked.
If the recruiters weren’t under such intense pressure from their higher ups to fulfill quotas we wouldn’t have this problem.
The army is in desperate need of native Urdu, Pashto and Arabic speakers. Ain’t many of those in the U.S. It’s necessary to recruit from the non-U.S. citizen base to find people with language skills.
Sad but true, I’m afraid.
DC Media Girl,
White Supremacists, KKK et al are NOT the only mentally disturbed types. Remember we have Nation of Islam (NOI), SDS and now Black Panthers as part of our Government now thanks to the Big Zero in our WH.
A Hate group is a hate group – does not matter if it is classified as Left or Right. The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) tracks them all, and they are ALL dangerous to the safety and security of our communities.
SDS? Did I fall asleep and wake up in 1968?
Hmmm, funny you keep harping on white people with problems. Wonder what your motivation could be? Impartial you are not.
I have a real problem with this post. I remember being spit on in 1968 in an airport after being called a baby killer. I would like one instance of a rapist getting into the military. People going bad happens in all parts of our population. So why don’t we blame the cop that went bad and killed his wife. The insurance salesman that killed one of his kids, does he get a free ride. Are all military people right wingers. Don’t think so. I will be at a miltary funeral today holding my flag with pride as a VV vet with pride and sadness for a young man that gave all for the flag I will be holding. Think before you lump all vets into one rotton little spot.
joker…..the person who posted the article could care less about offending people. Im not impressed by the author’s critical thinking skills.
I agree with you! This was not a very well thought out piece!
Mark and Scott: I’m so glad that the two of you tacitly approve of racists, criminals and gang members joining the ranks of the armed forces. That’ll do wonders for morale. It’s also interesting that you couldn’t be bothered that recruiters with character are committing suicide, a horrible tragedy.
That is a really big jump. I don’t know about lowering the “bar”. I have a kid in my neighborhood, we have known him for 8 years, he just graduated high school, was in ROTC, was on the HS football team etc. He bulked up to play football. Now, he wants to join the military, he can’t before he loses 30 pounds, because they won’t take him as he is. The kid is in great shape, a football player. So much for “lowering” the bar. If you don’t like the military politics…fine. It doesn’t make the military members any less valid as individuals.
Again. you are misconstruing the entire comment’s that were made. Why? We in no way, shape, or form did we tacitly approve of rapists criminals and gang members. I was objecting to your lack of critical thinking on this issue. Your response to these comments indicate hostility that manifests itself through ugly, untrue sarcasm.
it(this diary) is a vehicle for an agenda and the guns are loaded and cocked in written form that is.
Joker: Your reading comprehension is very poor. I SPECIFICALLY wrote:
And then there’s this red herring:
What does this have to do with criminals enlisting?
Rape in the military:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/cbs-rapists-allowed-to-join-us-military.html
We don’t blame the wife-killing cop? We give a murderer a free ride? On what planet?
the rapist that raped a 4 yr old and serves 12 months that to me is a FREE ride.
According to Fox this morning.
He should be locked up and the key thrown away!
It happens right on this planet.
So because a guy rapes a four year old we shouldn’t be upset that neo-Nazis are enlisting? I don’t get the logical jump. Makes no sense at all, to quote Husker Du.
Joker — I am so very sorry for what you endured after serving our country. When I hear examples like yours it makes me cringe. Even though we all pretty much agree the Vietnam War was a series of bad extremely choices by the govt., it’s just wrong to hold our soldiers responsible. Thank you for your sacrifice and for honoring the ones who’ve given “the last full measure.”
sorry DC Media girl I half way agree but have to correct you on the “quotas” thing
I was a hometown recruiter aide at one point (it was an honor job you had to be a stellar recruit to get the opportunity) it was temporary duty (4 months I think)
No quotas – What r they gonna do? Fire you? Ha!
There were just a LOT of incentives. And I was never told to try to do anything I wasn’t already in the mood to do as I was a happy recruit (at that time). I was ALL FOR IT.
Of course there was no war at the time. But fighting wars is part of the job description (more for some then others) I just got lucky and Carter/RAY-GUN managed to keep their power RIDE on simmer long enough for me to serve my 6 and regret not staying longer.
but that’s just me
If I understood your post correctly, you served during the Carter/Reagan era? 20+ years ago? Things have changed a bit since then. Read the Time magazine article I linked to. Recruiting has changed since you were in uniform.
I’m sure YOUR military knowledge and experience is superior to Ladydawnelle’s 20+ years because you read an article in Time recently. Ridiculous much?
meant to say 20+years old experience
OT -
After CBO analysis, White House distances self from Kennedy bill…..
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/06/after-cbo-analysis-white-house-distances-self-from-kennedy-bill.html
My interpretation of this is:
(a) Kennedy is on his way out and therefore is of no further value to BO.
(b) any good points in Kennedy’s bill will be lifted and put into a BO plan which will then be lauded as the best healthcare plan ever.
(c) BO does not like to share the glory, so he will deny any similarities between Kennedy’s plan and his.
(d) The msm will then toss rose petals at his feet.
An interesting post.
I apologize for the OT but this is very important.
On the night of June 24, the media and government become one, when ABC turns its programming over to President Obama and White House officials to push government run health care — a move that has ignited an ethical firestorm!
Highlights on the agenda:
ABCNEWS anchor Charlie Gibson will deliver WORLD NEWS from the Blue Room of the White House.
The network plans a primetime special — ‘Prescription for America’ — originating from the East Room, exclude opposing voices on the debate.
http://www.drudgereport.com/flashaot.htm
Harp,
This is indeed bad news. I for one will make sure I am not anywhere near a TV on June 24th. This is truly disgusting – and Charles Gibson, the one who had his interview w/Sarah Palin “edited” so she came across as a bumbling bumpkin.
However, the Obamamedia hopefully is in for a rude shock. Their abysmal coverage of Iran may prove to be their formal death knell as outlined in this article:
http://transformingpower.ca/en/blog/revolution-will-be-tweeted-or-whatever
Time to boycott ABC… (I love a well-placed ellipsis.)
the ALL BARAK CHANNEL…
I’m sorry, but we have to bring back the draft and it must include men and women. We can’t expect the same soldiers to continue fighting year after year. If freedom is worth fighting for then let us all carry that responsibility. Let’s start with the children of our elected officials. I firmly believe that if we reinstate the draft all these wars will come to a halt. It is so easy to be in favor of a war when you have nothing on the line. I remember Viet Nam and the terror that would strike in a family’s heart knowing that their son, brother, father, uncle would be shipping off. Ely Weisel was right when he said all wars are absurd. Let us all bear the responsiblity for bringing these wars to an end.
Dutch: I am 100% in favor of requiring that the children of Congressmen AND all the war profiteers do at least one tour each in Afghanistan AND Iraq. No special treatment. Then let’s sit back and observe how the gung-ho armchair warriors and who send other people’s kids off to die and the thieves who fleece the taxpayers respond.
Here, here!
My neighbor told me last week her husband was trying to enlist, but had to see the local D.A. to have 19 ( yes nineteen) charges dropped so he could enlist.
My son has been serving for almost 8 years; he shares that often the new recruits, are flagrantly in the face of the C.O’s openly stating they will sue them, also that they are only in for the sign up bonus and benefits.
Consider this for a homeland security jeopardy question; what is the name of the group assigned to cover gate entry at our military bases?
Answer: Contracted to Pinkerton, for at least the last 6 years.
See, that is not a draft, it would be using military service punitively. It also would politicize military service. What you just said that you are 100% in favor of is a kind of totalitarianism. Be careful what you wish for.
Senator John McCain has served and has sons who are serving now. Did anyone besides me care about that last year?
You know what, we should never send anyone to war…ever…for any reason. I think we should all stay home, save the money we spend on the military and any defense programs, and start a massive letter writing campaign to our enemies that threaten our lives. They’ll be tersely worded of course. This will also help the post office be profitable again with all of the stamps we’ll be buying.
OT
The Iranian Revolution Will Be Tweeted
Posted by Frank J. on June 16, 2009 at 10:31 am
If you’re wanting to follow what’s happening in Iran, the best way right now is Twitter.
Yeah, I know. A lot of you are saying, “But I think it’s name sounds gay and I’m not secure enough in my masculinity to use it.”
Well, let me tell you that I’ve checked, and absolutely no gay people use Twitter.
In fact, a way to figure out if someone is gay is to ask him, “Are you Twitter?” If he says no, then there is about a 50% chance he’s a flaming homosexual.
Anyhoo, if you want to get live updates of what’s going on, you can follow the #IranElection hashtag and should pretty soon find out who the big players are.
http://www.imao.us/index.php/2009/06/the-iranian-revolution-will-be-tweeted/
Iran tweets —
http://iran.twazzup.com/
It has been reported that over 15,000 Americans are murdered in this country every year. But over 100,000 are killed in our hospitals from avoidable mistakes…this is just the numbers that can be traced. The actual number is probably a lot larger. Perhaps Homeland Security ought to put our hospitals on the terrorist list. More people are killed in our places of healing than those murdered (15,000) and killed on our highways (39,000) combined.
There is link from Michelle Malkins site that disputes this 100,000 death figure –read for yourself and decide.
Kinda blows the whole outrage thing about the military dropping the bar for recruits doesn’t it? LOL!
Uhhh…welcome to Planet Earth. That statement is true everywhere. The stock broker Mark Barton gunning down 13 and injuring 28 more of his co-workers, the child abusers that made it into the priesthood, the teachers that are sleeping with their students, the CIA agent Steven J. Levan using CIA credit cards for his personal expenses, rogue cops such as the dozen or so in Chicago that were arrested for using their badges to commit robberies, the firefighter,Laramie McPherson, accused of arson in Kansas – and these are just a tiny example of bad people getting jobs and abusing their power or turning on their co-workers or students or congregation. I’m sorry, but humanity is imperfect.
If you want to be surrounded by angels, go to heaven.
Isn’t that the plain truth of it? I think there is at least one bumper sticker and or t-shirt in there as well.
TM, you’re right, there are crazies everywhere.
But, is it to much to ask to keep the Nazis away form military training paid by us, the taxpayers?
Skinheads, neo-nazis, white supremacists, whatever, they say to everyone willing to listen they are preparing for the ‘race wars’ to ‘kill niggers, kikes and spics’ and the race traitors too. I don’t want the Nation of Islam training in the US Army either. But the neo-nazis WANT to enlist, they are encouraged to enlist by their leaders, so they get state-of-the-art training.
I have a nephew in the military, and I am proud of him and our armed forces in general, but I don’t want these pathological haters around him with guns.
Steven Levan? Very interesting. Were you one of his “victims”? If so, I can’t imagine, and I wish you all the best! I just ask because you are not in the DC loop.
The problem is…and I will qualify my statement by saying that I didn’t linger at the sites linked in this article…
There are no numbers. How many recruits out of 100 are card carrying Neo-Nazis, etc? How many persist in their hate group lifestyle while in the military and how many return to that lifestyle post military?
Having worked for several years on an air force base as a civilian, the goal for the base was that the military personnel could get half a day off on Fridays IF there had been NO reports of domestic violence on base or off among the military personnel and families during the week.
The reward didn’t happen all that often.
I didn’t linger at the sites linked either because I am familiar with the story.
But I remember stories about neo-nazis and gang members in the military prior to this war.
Like someone else said up thread. During the Vietnam war and beyond lots of men facing jail time joined the military and became productive members of society after serving.
We live and work around several of these men who are great friends and neighbors. It is a common story actually.
That doesn’t mean I am blind to the probelms, but to think these ‘organizations’ didn’t realize the military was a great placed to be trained prior to this war is naive.
Frankly, the issue I had with the order was that it reminded me of the same type of order that the Bush Admin issued. Where some political enemies seemed to be the true targets and placed within the mix to justify watching them. And then we get reports confirming that the Bush Admin was listening in on political targets or journalists.
So while DCmedia is trying to justify Janet’s list. It still reminds me of a political watch/hit list under the cover of Homeland Security.
It was wrong under Bush…it is still wrong under Obama.
And let’s be blunt. Neo-nazis and gangs were being rightfully watched long prior to any list being complied by Homeland Security.
Agreed. Wiki Richard Girnt Butler and The Aryan Nation. Less than a hundred attended their 2002 Neo-Nazi conference.
I am more skeptical of Janet’s list, who has that information, and how it is used.
I find Obama much scarier than Bush in this case because we have no track record on Obama. Obama creates the great unknown factor in any governmental situation.
Timothy McVeigh and the DC Sniper John Mohammed. Returning vets (both were Gulf War vets) aren’t the only domestic terrorists, but, damn, they’re EFFECTIVE terrorists. The numbers of these men that are damaged enough and ideological enough to be dangerous is small, but not to consider the possibility out of a misplaced sense of political correctness would be the worst sort of dereliction.
True. I don’t defend any of the hate groups or their members. It may be fair to say that persons who are involved in that type of ideology and then have their killing skills honed in the military are dangerous.
But, Janet’s list was half-assed and made it sound like all vets were/are a potential danger.
Like all things Obama so far, it comes out and then immediately needs to be re-worked? Who the effs at the wheel of the USS Obatitanic?
Again, this is really just an outrage piece without hard numbers to prove who is hate group/military, how many maintain and rejoin hate groups after service, and how many have engaged in rape and other crimes while in the military.
I would imagine if they are THAT MUCH of a problem, they would have never made it pass basic training.
I know the same cynical story of our military being made up of the dregs of society. And even if they did pull 100% percent of their people from the poorest part of the country, those who will not fit in with the unit and follow the rules would be gotten rid of. This means that you would be left with good upstanding people.
When it comes to a draft, that’s a whole different story; those people do not want to be there and do not care. They are more likely to engage in unsavory behavior. However, in an all volunteer army, if you choose to sign up, you choose to be there for some reason and are more likely to adhere to the rules of the game.
As far as the supremacist goes, I’m not saying anything they did with him was right. He should have never been allowed to sign up. However, I have come to the conclusion, when it concerns the military; those who dislike any type of armed engagement are willing to pull out the most extreme examples in order to smear the institution. Are some (enter race here) supremacists being allowed into the military? Sure. Are some (enter race here) supremacists working in retail, construction, healthcare, education, religious, or computer industries? Yup. What are you trying to prove with that point?
This summed it up: “We don’t exclude people from the army based on their thoughts,” says S. Douglas Smith, an Army public affairs officer. “We exclude based on behavior.”
That’s what it comes down to. How do you behave in the ranks? How do you treat your fellow soldiers? How do you treat foreigners? I’m guessing that’s why he was delegated to mostly transporting and not direct engagement with the regular populace.
The man was good soldier then and that’s what mattered. His jack-a** like behavior now… The whole point of that Salon piece was to try and give credence to Napolitano’s report except even with this bit of information you run into a HUGE PROBLEM- not every military man/woman is a white supremacist.
So singling them out to be “watched” is bogus.
Just Sing!
P.S. – Sorry, forgot to tell you great post!