Comments on: So THIS Is How Obama Is Going To Pay For Health Care! *Open Thread* http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/ Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:28:43 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Martha Washington Collier http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220663 Martha Washington Collier Mon, 22 Jun 2009 02:11:34 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220663 Does anyone have references to the UK Health Care Services denying open heart surgery? I haven't heard of this but was asked by someone today...I can't find any info...the only service I heard denied was for breast cancer medicines and that was on Fox...anyone? Does anyone have references to the UK Health Care Services denying open heart surgery? I haven’t heard of this but was asked by someone today…I can’t find any info…the only service I heard denied was for breast cancer medicines and that was on Fox…anyone?

]]> By: Diana L. C. http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220549 Diana L. C. Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:09:59 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220549 I feel that the situation is frightening. Yes, I worry about another crazy leader in the area. But all analogies always break down. That is why my Iranian ex-pat friend is proud but frightened at the same time for the protestors. Most do not remember the Shah with good feelings, but they felt even more terribly frightened by the effects of the '79 Revolution, which I am also old enough to remember well. My friend was twenty years old and living in Iran still. We have many, many books by ex-pat Iranians available for reading. They all speak of a desire for more a more open, secular society. None speak highly of the current regime. None speak highly of any type of "charismatic" leader who would control their lives as they do now in Iran. We have many feminists on this site. If you read and study, this may be as much a feminist revolt as anything. The lives of women and animals in Iran now under fundamentalist Islamic rule are miserable. I have tried desperately to learn from the past but at the same time to know that, while it can repeat itself in some ways, it does not really repeat itself entirely. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's grasp has been weakened by this. Perhaps a more moderate religious leader will take over. We could be hopeful that a new regime in Iran might change the dynamics in that region, where all of its neighbors fear them now. I posted an open letter to the people of Iran from the woman singing in this video before, but I do not think anyone read it. I will just give the link now. This beautiful woman works to make clear to the world that the regime in Iran now is not what the people want. Listen to the lyrics, if you can get past how beautiful this woman is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqkSmpKkfdI I feel that the situation is frightening. Yes, I worry about another crazy leader in the area. But all analogies always break down. That is why my Iranian ex-pat friend is proud but frightened at the same time for the protestors. Most do not remember the Shah with good feelings, but they felt even more terribly frightened by the effects of the ‘79 Revolution, which I am also old enough to remember well. My friend was twenty years old and living in Iran still.

We have many, many books by ex-pat Iranians available for reading. They all speak of a desire for more a more open, secular society. None speak highly of the current regime. None speak highly of any type of “charismatic” leader who would control their lives as they do now in Iran.

We have many feminists on this site. If you read and study, this may be as much a feminist revolt as anything. The lives of women and animals in Iran now under fundamentalist Islamic rule are miserable.

I have tried desperately to learn from the past but at the same time to know that, while it can repeat itself in some ways, it does not really repeat itself entirely. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei’s grasp has been weakened by this. Perhaps a more moderate religious leader will take over.

We could be hopeful that a new regime in Iran might change the dynamics in that region, where all of its neighbors fear them now.

I posted an open letter to the people of Iran from the woman singing in this video before, but I do not think anyone read it. I will just give the link now. This beautiful woman works to make clear to the world that the regime in Iran now is not what the people want. Listen to the lyrics, if you can get past how beautiful this woman is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqkSmpKkfdI

]]> By: Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220516 Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy Sun, 21 Jun 2009 13:11:14 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220516 ROTFLMAO... ROTFLMAO…

]]> By: oowawa http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220515 oowawa Sun, 21 Jun 2009 12:49:17 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220515 Administrator, Almighty Spam Filter killed my response to Diana's post. Rescue would be appreciated. Thanks. Administrator, Almighty Spam Filter killed my response to Diana’s post. Rescue would be appreciated. Thanks.

]]> By: oowawa http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220514 oowawa Sun, 21 Jun 2009 12:46:39 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220514 Diana, the images of Iranian crowds in the streets during the Iran Hostage Crisis 1979-1981 are still vivid to me, as they are to most of us. I cannot draw comfort from these huge Iranian protests going on now because of their similarity to my memories of those years. Yes, they're protesting against a tyrant and a jerk, but maybe the Shah was a tyrant and a jerk too. The mobs in the streets last time brought rule by the Ayatollahs and the Hostage Crisis. What will it bring this time? It seems this is a population that can be manipulated at a mob level by a charismatic leader. These images styled after Obama's campaign are, to me, a bad sign. We know what those images brought us. Diana, the images of Iranian crowds in the streets during the Iran Hostage Crisis 1979-1981 are still vivid to me, as they are to most of us. I cannot draw comfort from these huge Iranian protests going on now because of their similarity to my memories of those years. Yes, they’re protesting against a tyrant and a jerk, but maybe the Shah was a tyrant and a jerk too. The mobs in the streets last time brought rule by the Ayatollahs and the Hostage Crisis. What will it bring this time? It seems this is a population that can be manipulated at a mob level by a charismatic leader.
These images styled after Obama’s campaign are, to me, a bad sign. We know what those images brought us.

]]> By: Diana L. C. http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220423 Diana L. C. Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:30:23 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220423 With my meager understanding of how the Iranian ex-pats think, I don't care about the copying of the hope and change mantra by Mousavi's followers. Follow the conflict closely. Mousavi is almost an accidental contender. Most of his followers in Iran claim they do not want to overthrow the Islamic rule--i.e., the "religious democracy." They want more freedoms and a lightening of the fundamentalist control. Mousavi's wife campaigned with him--a first--and he appealed in that regard to the many women voters, who outnumber men, but who have almost no legal rights. The students and the ex-pats around the world are more progressive, wanting to overthrow the religious control of their "democracy," wanting the country to be secular again. Ahmadinejad--this is the most frightening thing for me and the one that makes me feel he is more like Obama--came up from the ranks of the Basij, which, in my mind, resemble a group that ACORN could grow to be, or those eventual youth programs O seems to want. The Basij are the youth group trained in ideology, who have no uniforms but who do most of the violence or the confrontation with the people. They also remind me of the Hitler youth. Ahmadinejad's obviously rigged election also reminds me of O's. I don't think O's statements recently admonishing Iran for the violence against its people are sincere, really. The one Iranian expert interviewed so far that I have seen who vehemently defended O's less-than-strong interest in Iran's situation seemed to be the only expert defending Ahmadinejad--who, whether we want to admit it or not, does have followers. BUT...get this, they are mostly the poorer people of Iran, whom he lavished with financial gifts and promises during the election. Does that sound like someone you know? The demonstrators are reacting to thirty years of a brutal regime. It doesn't take U.S. meddling for that to happen. Iran was not like Iraq; it does have a semblance of democracy, so the conditions for protest were there, while in Iraq, there was nothing but total fear of the government. There were previous protests in Iran after elections in recent history, but they subsided quickly after threats. The anger has been growing there and has just finally gotten to the real boiling point. If there is some helping people who protest on the part of our government, I am for that. Mostly, we should help them maintain whatever means they have for speaking out so the rest of the world can hear. I don't twitter or use MySpace or Facebook, but thank heavens for these innovations. With my meager understanding of how the Iranian ex-pats think, I don’t care about the copying of the hope and change mantra by Mousavi’s followers. Follow the conflict closely. Mousavi is almost an accidental contender. Most of his followers in Iran claim they do not want to overthrow the Islamic rule–i.e., the “religious democracy.” They want more freedoms and a lightening of the fundamentalist control. Mousavi’s wife campaigned with him–a first–and he appealed in that regard to the many women voters, who outnumber men, but who have almost no legal rights.

The students and the ex-pats around the world are more progressive, wanting to overthrow the religious control of their “democracy,” wanting the country to be secular again.

Ahmadinejad–this is the most frightening thing for me and the one that makes me feel he is more like Obama–came up from the ranks of the Basij, which, in my mind, resemble a group that ACORN could grow to be, or those eventual youth programs O seems to want. The Basij are the youth group trained in ideology, who have no uniforms but who do most of the violence or the confrontation with the people. They also remind me of the Hitler youth. Ahmadinejad’s obviously rigged election also reminds me of O’s.

I don’t think O’s statements recently admonishing Iran for the violence against its people are sincere, really. The one Iranian expert interviewed so far that I have seen who vehemently defended O’s less-than-strong interest in Iran’s situation seemed to be the only expert defending Ahmadinejad–who, whether we want to admit it or not, does have followers.

BUT…get this, they are mostly the poorer people of Iran, whom he lavished with financial gifts and promises during the election. Does that sound like someone you know?

The demonstrators are reacting to thirty years of a brutal regime. It doesn’t take U.S. meddling for that to happen. Iran was not like Iraq; it does have a semblance of democracy, so the conditions for protest were there, while in Iraq, there was nothing but total fear of the government.

There were previous protests in Iran after elections in recent history, but they subsided quickly after threats. The anger has been growing there and has just finally gotten to the real boiling point.

If there is some helping people who protest on the part of our government, I am for that. Mostly, we should help them maintain whatever means they have for speaking out so the rest of the world can hear.

I don’t twitter or use MySpace or Facebook, but thank heavens for these innovations.

]]> By: politicalidentitycrisis http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220417 politicalidentitycrisis Sun, 21 Jun 2009 03:45:20 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220417 If Mousavi is the Iranian equivalent of Obama, they better go with none of the above option for President! For someone who didn't want to "meddle", Obama's claw prints are all over that election and it's just plain weird! Of course I always thought it was very weird that a little known Senator from IL had so many foreign connections. The world is all upside down right now. I just hope Hillary is running some sort of interference to whatever evils we are not aware of. If Mousavi is the Iranian equivalent of Obama, they better go with none of the above option for President!

For someone who didn’t want to “meddle”, Obama’s claw prints are all over that election and it’s just plain weird! Of course I always thought it was very weird that a little known Senator from IL had so many foreign connections. The world is all upside down right now. I just hope Hillary is running some sort of interference to whatever evils we are not aware of.

]]> By: politicalidentitycrisis http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220415 politicalidentitycrisis Sun, 21 Jun 2009 03:39:02 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220415 I saw it! Maybe this link will work: http://cgi.ebay.com/Mir-Hossein-Mousavi-mini-POSTER-HOPE-Iran-Election-lmtd_W0QQitemZ250447462869QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4fd501d5&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 I saw it! Maybe this link will work:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mir-Hossein-Mousavi-mini-POSTER-HOPE-Iran-Election-lmtd_W0QQitemZ250447462869QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4fd501d5&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

]]> By: BuzzisbackLatte http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220402 BuzzisbackLatte Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:34:02 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220402 Ick, ick, ick on the Mousavi poster! Ick, ick, ick on the Mousavi poster!

]]> By: oowawa http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220398 oowawa Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:08:09 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220398 Sorry. Link doesn't work. Try googling Mousavi Hope Poster. It's being sold on E-Bay and features a bloody red handprint in the green and red pattern. Sorry. Link doesn’t work. Try googling Mousavi Hope Poster. It’s being sold on E-Bay and features a bloody red handprint in the green and red pattern.

]]> By: politicalidentitycrisis http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220397 politicalidentitycrisis Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:05:06 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220397 I don't like it one bit! It made the hair on the back of my neck stand on end! I don’t like it one bit! It made the hair on the back of my neck stand on end!

]]> By: oowawa http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220395 oowawa Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:01:17 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220395 So they are in the streets in Iran. OMG! So they are in the streets in Iran. OMG!

]]> By: oowawa http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220394 oowawa Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:58:47 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220394 Here's the companion "Hope" poster. Who is making these things? They are obviously intended for an American audience and not an Iranian audience--or are they? Yes--One World Hope Change: what the heck is going on? http://pages.ebay.com/viewitem/viewitem_popup.html?domain=ebay.com Here’s the companion “Hope” poster. Who is making these things? They are obviously intended for an American audience and not an Iranian audience–or are they? Yes–One World Hope Change: what the heck is going on?

http://pages.ebay.com/viewitem/viewitem_popup.html?domain=ebay.com

]]> By: politicalidentitycrisis http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220393 politicalidentitycrisis Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:53:55 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220393 In case you haven't seen it: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2482/3611830781_6ae6108abb.jpg?v=0 I saw Iranian protesters holding them today while I was watching FOX news. Anyone smell Obama/Axelrod meddling like Raila Odinga? I mean really that made me feel ill when I saw it. In case you haven’t seen it:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2482/3611830781_6ae6108abb.jpg?v=0

I saw Iranian protesters holding them today while I was watching FOX news. Anyone smell Obama/Axelrod meddling like Raila Odinga? I mean really that made me feel ill when I saw it.

]]> By: oowawa http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/20/so-this-is-how-obama-is-going-to-pay-for-health-care-open-thread/#comment-1220389 oowawa Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:47:00 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26509#comment-1220389 OMG politicalidentitycrisis. You're right. I'll bet that's really scary through a set of green-red 3-D glasses. http://www.flickr.com/photos/fhashemi/3611830781/ OMG politicalidentitycrisis. You’re right. I’ll bet that’s really scary through a set of green-red 3-D glasses.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fhashemi/3611830781/

]]>