Do Iranian Privates Care a Whit About Obama?
By Larry Johnson on June 22, 2009 at 8:30 AM in Current Affairs
(bumped up from yesterday)
Remember the laurels being heaped on Obama two weeks ago after the Cairo speech? it was the “Obama effect.” Yep, Messiah boy was transforming the world just by speaking. He was, according to the MSNBC Cheerleading Pom Pom Squad, swinging elections. But the folks at the Daily Show did not see it that way:
| The Daily Show With Jon Stewart | Mon – Thurs 11p / 10c | |||
| Indecision 2009 – Everywhere but Here Edition | ||||
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Of course now we have the “Obama Ineffect” or maybe it is the Obama “Laissez Faire Effect?”
We have gone from Obama moving the world (but not really) to Obama not moving or changing what some believe he could. So what can and should Barack be doing vis-a-vis Iran? What can he do? Not much.
Let’s debunk the notion that Obama’s speech in Cairo had any relevance in Iran. Iranians are not Arabs and they are not Sunni Muslims. Deluding yourself with the notion that Obama’s speech was outreach to Muslims is akin to believing that an Obama speech at the Vatican would boost his standing among Southern Baptists. Please.
Obama had little influence over the electoral outcome in Iran (no matter what the cable news crazies want to believe) and, by the same token, there is little he/we can do to change the dynamics in Iran.
The old saw, “All Politics is Local” applies just as well in Tehran, Iran and it does in Chicago, Illinois. Let’s also remember what happens when police get called to a domestic disturbance. A big drunken lout is bashing the shit out of his wife or girlfriend. He’s probably raped her too and is using her for a punching bag. Cops roll in and what happens?
a) The distraught woman runs into the arms of the noble police who in turn taser the shit out of the brute
b) The cops try to separate the two and in the process get rough with the wife-beating asshole
c) As the cops start tuning up the drunken fool the abused wife/girlfriend jumps back into the fray and begins attacking the cops.
If you answered C you are a winner. Guess what? The same applies to Iran. We might feel better about ourselves for trying to insert ourselves into this matter but to the extent that outside influence can be portrayed as the source of the unrest and blamed for the violence then the government of Ahmadinejad will have a convenient villain to blame–us (as in USA).
It does not matter what the Privates in the Iranian Army think about Obama. But it does matter what they think about killing Iranian men and women who are roughly their age. Well over 60% of Iran is under the age of 30. Only about 30% of Iranians have living memory of the Iranian revolution of 1979. While neo-cons eager for a war with Iran love to portray Iran as a reincarnation of Hitler’s Germany the fact is that most of the population is not obsessed with Shia fundamentalism. A Shia Muslim Iran is far more open and dynamic than say a Sunni Saudi Arabia.
So where do we go from here? I don’t know. The key remains the Iranian Revolutionary Guards and the rest of the military and police forces. If they are willing to use violence to break up demonstrations and imprison the leaders of the protests then game over, at least for now. But if a significant portion of the leadership of the organizations that control the guns and jails start pushing back against the repression then the reign of the conservative mullahs may be coming to an end.
If you want the best view of what is going on in Iran watch the BCC and ignore the US cable news cheerleaders and riot instigators. They really don’t give a shit what is happening in Iran. They just love a fight. It gives them new grist for their version of Fight Club.
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Thanks Larry for your insightful analysis of the situation in Iran. I would only add, why is it that the majority of our politicians (dems & repubs) never learn but always want to be the instigators and cheerleaders (i.e., passing of the nonbinding resolution regarding the Iranians election) of unrest in other countries. I still remember the nonbinding resolution congress passed that gave Bush the cover to invade Iraq. When will they ever learn? After they put on their dog and pony show the gullible American people join in the propaganda. De ja vue!!
Deja vu
Larry, do you think the CIA is instigating any of the protests going on in Iran now? They have a history of doing that.
CIA would love to be perceived as having that kind of clout. CIA influence in these matters always is exaggerated. Hollywood mythology aside CIA’s influence here is limited and the best we can hope for are some sources in the IRGC that can give us a good grip on what the regime is going to do.
Larry,
I read in a tweet this morning that they are rounding up the Iranian Revolutionary Guard commanders (IRGC) because they did not approve of the actions against the people by the Basiji.
Of course w/BBC now offcialy thrown out of Iran, there is no way any of the “tweet” news can be verified.
The best we will get is a future episode with Jack Bauer or a movie sequel with Ethan Hunt to see U.S. undercover duking it out with Basiji patrols.
Larry, the CIA’s influence is limited to what? I have read that Bush authorized the CIA in 2007 to conduct a covert op to destabilize the Iranian regime. Would that be within the scope of their limitations? I’m not trying to be facetious, I am just trying to figure out who really is behind this “uprising”. If not the CIA, then who?
I don’t believe for one minute that these demonstrations are spontaneous and genuine. There may be elements among the protesters who are really sincere and not agitators, but I find the whole idea that “the revolution will not be televised — it will be Twittered” a bit surreal to be on the level.
It sounds like you don’t feel like Iranians are capable of becoming fed up with a corrupt system and taking action on their own without outside instigation and management. I think you need to guess again.
Indeed, a Twitter/Facebook organized and driven political process was predicted in the 2002 book “Smart Mobs” and was first realized using cellphone/texting technology in the Philipines a fews years later. Like Larry, I am a CIA alumni, although I cut my espionage teeth in the Near East.
My advice is not to underestimate the people of Iran. They overthrew the Shah when he allowed the military and security forces to start running the country and oppressing the people. Now Khameini and his clerics have allowed something similar to happen, and the people are becomning fed up after thirty years. If and when the military and police switch sides, like they did with the Shah, there will be a new constitution and government in Iran.
You’re right about that. I am the ultimate skeptic.
Honestly, I don’t know anything about how the Shah was overthrown. I will leave that issue to someone who has expertise in that area. But I DO know that the MSM has been feeding us this “green revolution” in Iran nonstop for the past few weeks. And given the fact that the MSM has been in the tank for Obama since the primaries, that makes me VERY, VERY suspicious.
Well, it appears that we are going to disagree. I think that the uprising was the result of Iranians becoming fed up with the oppression of their government, and that the recent election was the last straw. I think that the MSM recognized a good story and ran with it, pretty much 24/7. I think that if Obama and his team were really calling the shots for the MSM to the extent that you believe that they are, the MSM would be using the Iranian government press blackout to minimize the story, as that would be in Obama’s interest.
Why would that be in Obama’s interest? Because Obama believes in the power of his personal magnetism to sway people, including previously uncooperative foreign dictators, his way. He has invested a great deal of time and effort in prepping the current Iranian leadership for a parlay in the first year of his administration, including being overly deferrential to them. The last thing that he wants is to have to choose between backing the people in the streets so as to play to the domestic American sentiment and schmoozing with the current Iranian government in order to prove that he is the Magic Man.
The “green revolution” is a setback to Obama’s schedule. But it is such a compelling story for the MSM, they are compelled to go with it.
” don’t believe for one minute that these demonstrations are spontaneous and genuine.”
This statement of yours is absolutely insulting to me as an Iranian American and all my family, relatives, friends,and all men, women, children who have been suffering under this brutal regime for over thirty years.
Too bad. Expressing a belief is not tossing an insult. Trying to control our thinking and expression by the old “I’m insulted” isn’t working like it used to. You’re entitled to your opinion and so are the rest of us, so get over it(yes, an obamanism).
Thanks, Larry.
DO you think there’s any way BO had a heads-up about the chaos in Itan?
Do you think there might have been some plot to CAUSE chaos by calling the selection for Ahmadinijad?
DO you think the mullahs were in any way blindsided by the students reaction?
Does anyone here get the feelingt hat we are now watching another astroturf campaign… ala Axelrove… via Youtube?
These videos coming out of Iran now. And the neatly printed *English* signage make me suspicious.
I’m not suggesting that kids over there are not being hurt. They are. That much is clear. But… that in and of itself does not mean we aren’t seeing astroturf.
Kids have a way of getting caught up in astroturf. Cuz their radar doesn’t pick it up. They think they are part of a grassroots movement and.. next thing you know… they are it’s martyrs.
I guess.. watching those kids in Iran is reminding me, a little too much, of what happened here in the U.s. in 2008.
Yes, but via Twitter, not YouTube. There is nothing “grassroots” about the “green” revolution in Iran. Someone other than the alleged “dissidents” is behind it. I’d love to know who.
Yes, I do. Have you seen these in some of the crowds?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2482/3611830781_6ae6108abb.jpg?v=0
What was it? There’s nothing at that link.
Thanks for the information Larry, and the great Jon Stewart video. Even though it is great to see Bill Mahr and Stewart starting to see through the “Obama effect,” whatever complaints they have are their own darn fault.
Thanks for pointing out how the Cairo speech wouldn’t have effected Iranians because they are Persian and not Arabic. I knew that, but hadn’t thought about your point. Everyone thinks just because you watch a certain t.v. show, everyone else does too. Meanwhile, you are the only one watching.
I actually had a friend say that the reason the people of Iran are fighting for their civil rights is because of Obama. The youth there has been wanting to be free for a long time before Obama. If anything, to me, the video he sent Iran back a few months ago wanting Iran to “unclench their fists” is why they clamped down on a free election.
I think this is essentially correct, from what I’ve heard over the years from many Iranians living here in the US. Before GWB and his Iraq war, the country was actually leaning towards a more pro-democratic stance. GWB’s saber-rattling stemmed that tied though.
Larry, do you know if this is true, and if so there must be a copy somewhere?
In 1988, Reuters reported on a radio address by Mousavi to the Iranian people:
In a Foreign Ministry statement read on Tehran radio today, Iran said that Israel should be annihilated and that implicit recognition of it by the Palestine Liberation Organisation ignored the inalienable rights of the Muslim Palestinan people.
The statement said that the only way to achieve Palestinian rights was continuation of all-out popular struggles against Israel.
Iranian Prime Minister Mir-Hossein Mousavi yesterday called Israel a”cancerous tumour” and said the Palestinian move to accept UN Resolution 242 would anger Muslim revolutionaries.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/06/who_is_mir_hossein_mousavi_kha_1.asp
I heard that Mousavi was a hardliner, but that he softened up over the years, and wants more rights for women. As in, no more stoning of women in public.
Thanks, Larry, for some reality here.
Americans seem always to egotistically think they are the center of the universe and that they influence everything. I laughed about the “yes, we can” analysis about how O influenced the protesters. I wondered then why no one seemed to notice the few signs about the “selection” vs “election” signs. Does that mean our SOS is influencing the demonstrators.
To believe the CIA orchestrated the actions of all these people in the streets and all the protests across the world would be to believe that New Orleans has been rebuilt and that the U.S. is universally loved around the world. I loved this comment:
Let’s debunk the notion that Obama’s speech in Cairo had any relevance in Iran. Iranians are not Arabs and they are not Sunni Muslims. Deluding yourself with the notion that Obama’s speech was outreach to Muslims is akin to believing that an Obama speech at the Vatican would boost his standing among Southern Baptists. Please.
Mr. Johnson, do you think the bombing yesterday at the Khomeini shrine was executed by the PMOI, or as the PMOI claim, at Khamenei’s behest in order to relist the PMOI as terrorists, and thus crack down on them under the guise of anti-terrorism? That does not seem like a realistic strategy even if done for the benefit of outsiders. Also, if it was Khamenei, would this not indicate a very firm commitment Ahmedinejad? At this point the strategy seems more to wear the protesters down, but that seems to me an escalation in the direction of attempting military force against the protesters.
Alternatively, if it is the PMOI, does that make the protesters less deserving of support?
I am finding the labeling Mousavi as a reformer more than a bit strange and am really perplexed as to how he could be the focus of the protesters: he does not seem in any way different from Ahmedinejad other than he is not Ahmedinejad.
We might feel better about ourselves for trying to insert ourselves into this matter but to the extent that outside influence can be portrayed as the source of the unrest and blamed for the violence then the government of Ahmadinejad will have a convenient villain to blame–us (as in USA).
______________________________________________________
Thanks for pointing that out. When this came up twenty years ago, by not forcefully reacting to support the 1989 pro democracy movements, H.W. Bush was also heavily criticized for valuing stability over democracy promotion in the former Soviet Union. On the other hand, it’s quite clear in retrospect that handing these regimes American sympathy as yet another reason to crack down on the protestors obviously does no one any long term good. There are subtler diplomatic and economic approaches which I don’t reasonably expect, but still hope, Obama to be seriously considering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkQ1iNHEGW8
Kissinger’s statement on US role in regime change in Iran.
WTF isn’t he in jail where he belongs?
He’s very well connected?
imo he is a conduit for the defense contractors wishes: remember flap with McCain, BHO & preconditions? Kissinger came down on side with McCain more or less. But then in Jan 2009, Kissinger makes the remark about BHO and NWO. Then in Feb 2009 BHO sent him to Moscow as a special envoy for secret nuclear arms reduction talks. Now here he is again.
I think he has been installed as a BHO’s “advisor” whether he wants him or not.
I am posting this link again because I think no one bothers to watch it. I think it is as beautiful a song as the singer is beautiful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqkSmpKkfdI
Yes, Diana, she is striking. Wikipedia:
we will get blamed.no matter what happens,we always do.
I am amazed at the media that keeps pushing this we want change in Iran, Mousavi has a checked past, when he was Pm he had no love for Americans, he had a deep hand in the Iran-Contra problem, all the information you need on this man is on the internet,yet he is being branded a reformer.
Here we go once again getting involved, trying to move one man to put another and in the end he may well probably turn out worst than the previous guy, how many times are we going to be in involved in crap like this, and why I saw involved the media sure is not giving it a rest, and sure seems to be feeding the flame of all this protest, let the Iranian people handle their problems don’t we have enough of our own here?
yep.
The Iranian people’s problems are our problems also. People grow and change. The people who have embraced Mousavi see him as being more moderate. At this point, I give him the benefit of the doubt, based on his statements, his wife’s statements, and his followers’ statements.
I truly wish for regime change–a good one in Iran–so that it may be an inspiration for people in North Korea, China, Afghanistan, etc. Hope and change has been demonized as an empty promise by the obots for many of us; and for that I am extremely unhapyy with O. Hope and good change should be everyone’s goals.
Seems as if the entire world’s problems are always our own, but how is it that when our housing bubble pops, our unemployment lines get longer, inflation hits the ceiling , gas prices sky rocket, and so on these problems are ours and ours alone?
Strange I have never heard anyone saying hey the US is having a rough time lets see what we can do to help, or Obama is not moving in the right direction lets give those people a hand, nope I have never seen or heard that.
I sure hell heard, Iraq, Iran, Africa, Korea, Afghan and the list gets longer is the USA problem, are we not tried now of paying for the ills of the world?
Give me a break here. If our problems are so bad, why don’t Americans leave home searching for a better place all the time, leaving family behind and all the things they’re familiar with to live in a country where they don’t speak the language? We are having problems now, but despite overspending, cheating politicians, somehow we’ll probably get through and still live lifestyles the rest of the world envies.
What I meant is that the more chaos in the rest of the world, the more trouble in the U.S. We’re all dependent on each other on “spaceship earth.”
Bleeding Heart (or is that bleeting hart?)
Mousavi’s wife as Iran’s Michelle Obama …. this is really too funny!
not to mention there’s a certain irony in Americans getting all bent out of shape about somebody else’s rigged election when we’ve had 3 in a freaking row.
You said it, NomNom — and the third time was NOT a charm!
Only three? I am thinking at least six in a row. At least think about it.
Lol, I would consider as many as 7 of the past 8, not to mention the odd election here and there since the country was founded. But I’d bet money on the last 3.
Believe it or not, Chuck Todd of NBC said on “Meet the Press” this morning the WH is “disappointed” not too many people are giving Teh O credit for his speech in Cairo that, in their ignorant minds, was what brought the riots in Tehran. Yep…they feel he didn’t get enough credit.
Thanks to Larry for keeping it sane.
It makes you wonder who in charge of the shoehorn so Obama can get his big head through doorways?
That would be a full time job.
Maybe they just grease his ears….
Mr. Johnson, would not this civil unrest in Iran cause the “leadership” in Iran to close ranks in any diplomatic efforts being made to mitigate Iranian nuclear weapons programs?
Is this a case of “anybody but
BushMahmoud Ahmadinejad” in Iran?The major opposition candidate had to have the Mullahs consent and I am wondering if the majority of the younger population, being distanced from the history of the “Revolution”, might displace the Mullahs eventually?
Or is the ruling powers that be in Iran, distinct and separate from the population and able to maintain power from one generation to the next?
Mousavi has already said he intends to continue with Iran’s nuclear program.
I am urging people, especially women, to wear green bracelets in solidarity with our Iran sisters and brothers – will you do it ? And tell others?
Nope wont do it sorry, I am not a supporter of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, but I have read enough on Mosauvi to believe that he is just saying at the moment what he feels people want to hear, he has just a little bit to much history to ever make me believe that he has made this radical change in his way of thinking.
It is a pity that as always politicians love to play on the minds of the young, and in this case I am seeing it happen in Iran the young is being used to fight this cause, I do hope for the safety of their future they are not all being led down the garden path so greedy men can just sit on a throne once again.
“I have read enough on Mosauvi”
Apparently not enough. What you read was what he was and stood for back in the day. Times change and so do people. I’m not saying that he is the Iranian George Washington but we just don’t know what he would do in a regime change. We were surprised during the collapse of the USSR and how former commies suddenly became reformists (and how reformists became commies again – like Putin).
However, it is not about Mosauvi anymore. It is about the masses – about young people and women who are now demanding their rights and are putting their lives on the line every day.
Why is it the media does not discuss what Mosauvi did during his tenure as PM, why don’t they discuss the thousand that died, or his Islamic intelligence service MOIS that he headed that was fashioned in the image of the KGB.
Better yet why don’t they speak of his ties with Hezbollah he was one of the founders of it, or his stance when Americans were held hostage. The US media has to stop giving us this one sided coverage as if the man is so different, because he is not, he is saying at the moment what needs to be said, where gullible Iranian youth, are putting their lives on the line for him.
The bottom line is he is no different, but as always that is the problem with most Americans we love to get into someone’s fight and when things turn bad the sad part of it is that we end up paying the price with the blood of our own sons and daughters and things never change.
They don’t talk about it because it does not suit their narrative – the same way Alinsky and Wright did not suit their Obama narrative.
As I said the narrative concerning mousavi has changed. Events have overwhelmed what he even stands for the same way events overwhelmed Gobachev as the USSR collapsed.
When a government loses all credibility and must resort to only lethal violance to restrain change then it collapses on its own.
If the current theocracy collapses then Mousavi will have to bend with the masses or he will be tossed.
I kept my t.v. on all day as I worked around the house. I switched between stations to see what each was reporting. On all channels I heard comments about Mousavi’s past, and the talking heads all said that there was no way to predict how he would be as the president. Just as many obots have been disappointed in O’s performance.
I will not go after the MSM on this one. I will go after people who make judgements about candidates without really investigating.
I would like a good change in Iran. I will have to trust the many demonstrators. It is their country, not ours.
Better the devil you know…
Read Mousavi’s letter to his supporters. Juan Cole has a translation of it on his website. If the letter is translated accurately, Mousavi says very specifically he is opposed to separation of government from religion. Anyone who imagines he is a “liberal” is dreaming.
The religious leaders determine who is allowed to be on the ballot, so anyone who wanted to get rid of their influence wouldn’t have been allowed to run in the first place.
I think the American media is trying to couch what is happening in Iran in our own terms, using our own button-pushing words – freedom, secular government, reform, grassroots, etc.
What specific changes in their government they want, and what they (or our media) may be projecting onto Mousavi vs. what is the truth, I guess we’ll have to wait and see. At the very least, I think the protesters are asking for accurate counting of votes, perhaps a recount.
Anyone who thought Gorbachev was not a commie was also wrong.
If this does result in a full scale revolution and regime change it will not be about Mousavi. Most Iranians are not as radically committed to Islam as the ruling Mullahs. They are more concerned about their way of life and certain freedoms. Signifcant among them are younger people and woman. Other old middle class are joining them and it has spread beyond Tehran. If this results in work strikes then there will be a greater confrontation. And I believe in what larry said about the average Iranian militia person being forced to turn on their own brothers and sisters and will then switch sides?
Yeah.
I do not believe anyone has painted Mousavi as a liberal, ever, or one who is for a secular government in Iran. We are not all stupid here on this site. But just as I prefer certain ministers, priest, etc., over the ones who are crazy fundamentalists nutcases, I can prefer one Supreme Leader over another.
Think of the centuries of Catholic Popes. Some were very wise and good; some were absolutely awful.
To think of all Muslims and all Muslim mullahs as the same is as wrong as viewing all Christians and all Christian ministers as the same.
Wise post! Thanks!
Is anyone else here concerned that we are being played? I’ll just say….
There is something awfully polished about some of the “news” that we are receiving via twitter and youtube. The nature of the “grassroots” in Iran are reminiscent of a certain astroturfing technique of which David Axelrove is the creator.
I’m not saying that there are not children being martyred on the streets of Tehran. I believe there are. But… that may well be because of their gullibility. We’ve seen it here as well… how the young flock to support the astroturfers, because they cannot recognize what they are really seeing…. All they know is that they “hope” for “change.” And they blindly follow anyone who promises them that change…. Whether there is any evidence the person can deliver or not.
Once again, do we need to remain skeptical? Or can we buy into this “revolution” as the real thing?
Yes!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fhashemi/3611830781/
I have a t-shirt made by a daugher-in-law with that same image, using her dog’s face. It’s hilarious because we tease her about her ADHD dog. Hers is a sarcastic version of O’s. Just because there is a poster like that does not make Mousavi a twin of O any more than my t-shirt makes my granddog a twin of O.
It is not just a mock poster. I was watching FOX news yesterday and they showed the protestors in Iran and they were holding those posters. It gave me shivers! Now I am thinking that something is seriously wrong here. Then today they were supposedly showing images and the protestors were yelling “yes, we can!” in farsi! Or so they said. Once again Obama gives me a very bad feeling!
agreed.
one really needs to ask the question: given Mousavi’s past role as PM under Khomeini, up to 30,000 political dissidents murdered, founder of Hezbollah, founder of MOIS, etc: and 20 years more or less out of the political arena: Why did he think he could win?
Quite true, Diana. But the purpose of your dog’s image is humor. It’s funny! The purpose of the Mousavi-Obama “Change” image, is to identify Mousavi’s cause with Obama’s cause, and to enable to Mousavi to ride the coattails of Obama’s popularity. The purpose is not humorous, but very iconic and serious. In both cases, the high-level abstraction “Change” is brought forward as an end in itself.
I also saw signs decrying the “selection” rather than the “election.” Does that make some of the protestors Hillary followers? Do you see these posters being carried in Iran? If not, they are being marketed to Americans. You should not necessarily equate the Iranian protestors with the obots.
Here is what I am equating: ruthless politician A (Obama) and ruthless politician B (Mousavi). Both are capitalizing on youthful enthusiasm, and the faults of horrible incumbents (Ahmadinejad and GWB). I don’t trust any of them. I am told that these posters are being carried in Iran, and why wouldn’t they? They’re freely available and freely reproducible. The posters are not only being marketed in America and Iran, they are being marketed throughout the world via E-Bay. I know I’m basically on your side, Diana, but I am much more skeptical about Mousavi. This is not to say that Mousavi would not be an improvement over Ahmadinenjad. But who knows? I don’t like to see youthful enthusiasm, and hope for a better tomorrow, used and manipulated by conniving politicians. Obama did it, and now we’re seeing the same images and buzzwords in the Mousavi campaign.
Too many “coincidences” if you ask me. Oowawa is right.
And, yes, the dog poster made out of sarcasm is funny.
The Mousawi poster is not. It gives me a cold chill and a knot in my stomach.
We are soooo being led down the astroturf highway…
Here is what I am equating: The “party” bigwigs want one candidate, not another. The other candidate gets 18 million votes, but who cares? The numbers can be cooked and a narrative can be created. The real winner doesn’t get “selected.”
In Iran there are not really two competing political parties. I see the “party” selecting the winner.
That the demostrators use themes and slogans from our election and use it for their ends does not mean, necessarily that they are being manipulated. They use what they hope will help them.
I really want change and hope for Iranians.
Admin, my reply to Diana’s comment was once again vetoed by the Almighty Spam Filter. It’s totally inscrutable. Please redeem. Thanks.
Certainly, but pro-democracy sentiments in Iran have been brewing in Iran over the past decades, especially amongst the young and returning Iranians from the US. Should we still be skeptical about the events and about how this is all being reported /framed? Yes, of course. But the seeds for this revolution have been present for some time now. The growing disgust and frustration with their own GWB-type leadership has brought all this to its tipping point, I believe.
To the webmaster:
Get rid of this link it redirects to a Flckr Yahoo page and requires a password confirmation.
It gets your user ID from your browsers cache and since it was filed in I thought it was legit.
I believe my account was just Phished.
To others don’t enter your passccode.
revolution as the real thing? so what do you call it? a special video special for fools? just wondering? sure we need to be careful, etc. and none of us are stupid. we know the past of the players here but look at the former leaders in israel. some of them were declared terrorists. look at sadat. give this knock mousavi attitude a break.
Our situation in the U.S. is not the same. We do not have women being arrested and beaten for allowing a strand of hair to fall out of their scarves. We do not have homosexuals arrested and tortured–executed, etc. We do not have people being arrested and held indefinitely while family members have no rights to see them or know what is happening to them.
Our young people are gullible and a bit self-centered because many have really never feared the government.
I will drop my cynicism on this one because I know that if I had to live as these Iranians have had to live under their government, I might be out risking my life, too. Mostly because I would start thinking death would be better than living as I had to live.
It is not as if the Iranians don’t know how to use technology. They do not all live in tents with dirt floors, etc.
I know what you’re saying, Diana. All of this legitimate outrage and longing for better conditions is however subject to ruthless and cynical manipulation by another team of political dirtbags. I do think we need to remain skeptical about the intentions of the politicians who hope to capitalize on this legitimate outrage. Are they sincere reformers, or just another bunch of conniving thugs? We don’t know. Do we dare to take a leap of faith? It seems American voters did that in the last election . . .
Absolutely. This is the thing to look out for in Iran as well as here in the US.
About the signs carried by the protesters, keep in mind that many Iranians speak English, especially many who fled to the US and England during the Shah of Iran and his brutal Savac secret police. There are also significant Iranian communities in Germany and in France, from what I understand.
I replied to your comment, Diana, but once again the Almighty Spam Filter consigned it to the Lake of Fire. But I assure you, my comment was cogent and persuasive, with just a hint of wit and erudition. (Now I hope admin. doesn’t retrieve it.)
I wonder at the average age of the foot soldiers in our own revolution. Anyone know?
Yes, I’ve had the same thought. This weekend there were several bombings in Northern Iraq which were only mentioned in passing on FOX News. Did the rest of the media report on this? Kirkuk and in Shiite Mosques in Baghdad?
Iraq government is claiming it is the work of Al Qeada, but could it possibly be Sunnis and isn’t Iran predominately Sunni? Maybe there is no connection between those bombings and what happened in Tehran. The US is pulling troops out of Kirkuk as part of the withdrawal plan so what happens next? And the media in our country are beating the drums of war again, but Obama’s response is troubling.
Why isn’t Obama leading the discussion instead of allowing others in congress and the media frame the message? He isn’t in charge in Washington? Is he afraid to say we don’t have the information needed to offer opinions on elections in Iran and until we do, we won’t ask the UN to intervene? Is he hiding in the WH bathroom? Just as he gave Cheney credibility by responding to that frm VP on the question of interrogations, he is allowing the salivating press to turn this into another illustration of his God-like wisdom in a situation with the potential for disaster.
Mousavi was making accusations of election fraud before the votes were counted. He told his supporters to strike if he is arrested and said he was willing to be a “martyr” for his cause. I wonder how our government would react in the face of that kind of threat in our election? Would the National Guard be called out to quell the violence or the threat of violence?
We need to stay the hell out of this and let the Iranian opposition to take it to the UN when and if they have proof of fraud. Whoever the winner is, he will still keep trading with Russia and China and the country will still be a theocracy.
Iran is Shiite. Thus–the Iran/Iraq war a while back and Larry’s comments above.
I do think the events in Iraq may be a reaction to the events in Iran in some way. But that whole part of the world is always reacting to events in that part of the world. There is never stability there.
Thanks for setting me straight Diana. It’s hard to remember sometimes which countries belong to what sect. The lack of stability and the close proximity of the two countries is a concern, but I’m wondering how the media is reporting or not reporting what is happening in Iraq right now.
Fox reported in passing and on the msn page I had to look under world news to find info and there wasn’t much there.
oowawa,
That poster made me break out in a cold sweat.
I fear things are worse than I imagined.
SYD
SYD, that is the “Change” poster. there is also an even more appalling “Hope” poster for sale on E-Bay, which I believe can be seen at this link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mir-Hossein-Mousavi-mini-POSTER-HOPE-Iran-Election-lmtd_W0QQitemZ250447462869QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4fd501d5&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12
thank you for the post larry.
Does anyone know why our MSM over here is giving us Iranian coverage nonstop?
Last night I turned on the news hoping to get an update on our US Navy warship that is preparing to intercept that No. Korean vessel, and all I could get from the lousy cable news was the Iranian protests! Nonstop! “Continuing coverage”, as they call it. Meanwhile, nuclear war against the U.S. could be immanent off the coast of China.
What is driving all the hype over the Iranian demonstrations? With all the problems we have now in this country, I cannot believe there really is that much of a demand domestically for nonstop news coverage of Iranian dissidents.
The name of the destroyer intercepting the North Korean vessel is USS John McCain. Don’t expect that to be headlines on MSNBC.
I never watch MSNBC — I was actually watching FOX News. And yes, they had previously covered the USS McCain, but they abandoned ship for the “Twitterings” from Iran.
This needs to be the time that the child cries and nobody gives him candy. North Korea needs to take off the training pants. It is like watching a teenager in plastic pants threaten to mess himself unless we give him candy again. So what, let em mess themselves. Once they begin to smell, China can deal with them.
This is just the set up for the next regime change in another anti-Israel country. Knock ‘em down, one after the other. That’s what the USA was put on the Earth for, you know.
How things change. A few months ago i was criticized here for posting “Iranian apologist” comments.Everybody hated Iranians & Iran.
I even had to say Iranians were human!
Now you love them. haha.
What is this person talking about?
We are not in high school. This isn’t about “hate” or “love.”
We are discussing real time politics. And, yes… they change like the wind. Not because of us. Because of the powers that be.
Geesh. Grow up!
Nonsense, hot librarian.
He/She is right. The moods here blow hot and cold.
Fareed Zakaria
here’s a detailed old article about Rafsanjani and his rise and connections, more than anyone is talking about at present:
http://www.forbes.com/global/2003/0721/024.html
More bombings in Baghdad and we have the MSM all wrapped up in what is going on in Iran and who is right or wrong…amazing
As Americans we must really love a war, or maybe we just love to beat our chest and take the kudos for saying hey look we moved another dictator, now the people can have KFC, and Burger King and be just like us.
The MSM has already started to claim victory for what is going on in Iran calling it the “obama effect” his winning the US elections and his speech in Cario…amazing once again.
Yes…It`s amazing how they avoided covering stories on voter intimidation during the primary.
The police in Colorado Springs used tear gas and rubber bullets against protesters against the Iraq War in 2003.
ironic video to this end:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMbMK2oTPkc&eurl
re dandelion salad
I wonder how many here linked to that vid, Nom? We can’t seem to get the mote out of our own eyes. That’s a paraphrase from the Bible I think.
srsly.
well, you will love this:
http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/06/20/irans-leading-lady-mujahida-to-the-last-drop-of-her-blood/
Change you can believe in
The MSM has already started to claim victory for what is going on in Iran calling it the “obama effect”
Not as many as I would have thought though.
Mousavi went after Obama for stating that there was no difference between him and Ahmadinejad.
Democrats essentially over rode Obama by voting in a bipartisan measure to support to protestors.
And as far as his Cairo speech he has proven that his words do not match his action.
His only statement late last week was weak and the excuse coming out of the White House that we don’t have a good track record is more of the same apology crap this guy has been throwing since coming into office. He seems to forget how many Muslims we liberated under Bush/Clinton/Bush. Imagine if Obama was President when the strikes and protests began in Poland and the rest of the USSR. What would he have done? Stayed out of it? Not want to meddle?
The polls are quickly turning against this guy as they find out how radical and reckless his policies are and how weak his foreign policy approach is.
so sj, while it is true americans do tend to get too involved in the video and tv equating it to hero hollywood movies, i note you ignore the reaction of the rest of the world.
Have to admit though that Obama is a good talker…making those words scrolling along his teleprompter training-wheels sound so pretty…
Interesting article about Nokia’s and Siemen’s role in setting up Iran’s web for deep packet inspection.
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/06/nokia-siemens-iran-web-censorship/
WEll, looky here: Ayatollah Montazeri denounces election results. Perhaps plan is to replace Khamenei after all.
http://kojayi.wordpress.com/2009/06/16/ayatollah-montazeris-letter/
I listened to this interview this morning on Gateway Pundit. I just happened to come across it looking at links on one of the news sites. Looks like an interesting blog.
For 4 part interview(30 minutes)and complete article:
http://tinyurl.com/ndukdn
Diane. Maybe he was a stooge for the US. Don’t you find it rather convenient that such a person would be allowed to come to the US? Don’t you think there is something not quite on the up and up? These things remind me of the Iraqis who were allowed to settle in this country after Saddam came to power with the help of the US. He fell out of favor with us and regime change was the order of the day. These Iraqis were used to help in the effort to propagandize the American people. Remember the babies whose heads were supposedly bashed in while they were in the hospital? Most likely that was not the truth since the person making the accusation was not credible being the daughter of one of Saddam’s sworn enemies. Remember when many of the Iraqis who had left the country for more than 20 years regaled us with many tales on TV about WMDs and chemical weapons before the invasion of Iraq? I will never forget nor will I believe everything this US government tell me. When the Shah of Iran was deposed the US allowed many of the well-to-do elites, the governing class in Iran to come to the US. These people and their offsrings may now be engaging in similar propaganda.
Forgot to mention that I will forever be grateful to Scott Ritter one of the inspectors on the ground who tried to warn us that there were no WMDs or chemical weapons in Iraq, that the IAEA had destroyed them. (Scott was blackmailed into shutting his mouth after he was smeared and threatened with a charge of statutory rape.) The leader of the group begged for another month worth of inspections but was told to get out or suffer the consequences. Again our MSM let us down with their bias for the war reporting. WHEN WILL WE LEARN TO STOP BEING SO GULLIBLE AND STOP BELIEVING EVERTHING THE MEDIA AND GOVERNMENT TELL US?
I hadn’t really thought of that angle. I’ve been in the mountains for the past 8 days and you can’t get an internet connection or cell phone connection out of there. I do this from time to time to take a break from everything. No TV, phone. Now I need to get caught up on the past week and what has been happening. That just happen to be one of the first things I came across while looking at current events, I thought it was an interesting interview and blog.
Chalabi.
Many Iranians hate and/or distrust the U.S. government for meddling in their politics since the oil industry came of age. I don’t think we have much clout in that country, so I seriously doubt that the CIA or some other “entity” could be affecting this unrest. It doesn’t seem outside the realm of possibility that Iranians, especially younger ones, might rebel against an oppressive regime. The impression of Iranians I have from those I have met is that they tend to be far more interested and tuned into politics compared to the average American. If the average American were as tuned in, we would be doing more than just blogging about how disgusted we are concerning our politics. I think our “Lightworker-in-Chief”(do not confuse this with praise) is doing the right thing by keeping his inexperienced a$$ out of it.
[...] viewing the video from the Daily Show that Larry posted this past weekend, I had an idea about what I wanted to write. I held off though, still unsure, but after seeing [...]
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