Iran Deja Vu
By Larry Johnson on June 23, 2009 at 10:04 PM in Current Affairs
Some of us writing for this blog or reading it are old enough to remember the 1979 Iranian Islamic Revolution and, watching the events now unfolding in Iran, want to quote Yogi Berra (i.e., “It is deja vu all over again”). I lived in DC at the time and both drove and marched by the old Iranian Embassy (it is or was across the street from the British Embassy) yelling insults and waving an American flag. Ahh, the good old days.
Let me be clear–while I am not nostalgic for the return of the Shah (he’s dead but his son lives near me) I do not want to see the clerics running Iran remaining in power. Regardless of what I want or feel, however, we must deal with the realities. Key issues:
1) Who controls the guns? Are the security services intact or are they splintering?
2) Are the clerics united or have fissures developed?
If you want some appreciation of what the mullahs represent I commend to you the movie Persepolis. Just a brilliant movie by another woman who does not know her place. The lady’s name? Marjane Satrapi.
This movie should be on your must buy list.
Iran is not a danger to the world despite all of the heated rhetoric from rightwing crazies. But the current mullah-led regime is a threat to the Iranian people. They are evil and they need to go.
Here’s where I differ with many of you. We can shout and threaten until we are blue in the face. It does not change a thing for the people in Iran. Moral support is limousine liberal crap. There were many marches in the U.S. after the stooges of Khomeni took over the US Embassy on November 4, 1979. Those protests did not weaken the grip of the mullahs. It did launch Ted Koppel’s career and the show, Nightline, but that helped ABC and did not change the political dynamics in the streets of Tehran.
We also launched an ill-fated special operations military mission (Eagle Claw) to rescue the U.S. diplomats being held in Tehran. Two of my good friends (George and Mike, both alive) were on that op. Guess what? The mission failed despite tremendous courage, hard work and enormous sacrifice by the men who tried to free our hostages. Good intentions, bravery and bravado were not and are not enough.
I prefer winning. I prefer we be effective. That requires allowing the mullahs to kill enough Iranian women, youth and elderly in plain sight of the world. This will galvanize global opinion and make it difficult for others to do business with Iran. More importantly it will rally many Iranians against the mullahs.
While I have welcomed Barack Obama’s low key approach in terms of making public speeches about this, the Obama team has its head up its ass by dragging their feet in disinviting Iranian diplomats to US Fourth of July celebrations. We should not make this the subject of a press conference but U.S. diplomats should pass notes asap to their Iranian counterparts around the world noting that their presence would not be welcome at an event that commemorates the declaration of Independence from tyrannical rule. On that point Obama and his team are looking as feckless as Jimmy Carter.
There is quite a bit the US can do directly and indirectly through clandestine intelligence channels. I’m not going to spell out what or who. There are ways that the CIA and other intelligence services can work together to ensure the opposition in Iran has good information, means to communicate and access to sympathetic ears within the clerical ranks.
Stay tuned boys and girls. You are watching history being made.
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I agree.
I think what is missing in Obama’s words is conviction. It seems that he is going through the motions of reading what he needs to.
What is also missing is leadership.
I believe that Obama is overwhelmed by the events and without experience and training he is floundering. Hillary was right about the 3AM phone call.
“the Obama team has its head up its ass by dragging their feet in disinviting Iranian diplomats to US Fourth of July celebrations.”
I agree. This is mind boggling. It’s as if he lives in another dimension and cannot feel anything.
I think Hillary broke her elbow while running to the White House to answer the 3 AM phone call, which had been ringing for about seven days.
But you forget, my dear, that is Obama’s job — if she answers first, she’s in trouble with the big boss.
Ha! Ha! Good one, Ani!
I think his fans refer to it as “the 12th dimension.”
“I prefer winning. I prefer we be effective. That requires allowing the mullahs to kill enough Iranian women, youth and elderly in plain sight of the world.”
This statement of yours is truly inhuman. Would you have said this if your entire family or comrades was in the harm’s way?
Sara, the objective is in play. This is the real world.
Two months ago, Sazegara spoke with State Department Iran desk officers and urged them to focus more closely on Iranian human rights abuses and to support European efforts to monitor the presidential election to ensure that it was fair.
Sazegara, who was tortured during long months in Iranian prisons in the late 1990s, warned the State Department that it was making “a bigger mistake than during the 1953 coup.”
“Now the Iranian people love you,” he said. “But if you make this kind of mistake, that could turn to hatred.”
http://www.newsmax.com/timmerman/Obama_Iran_dissident/2009/06/23/228283.html
The movie looks wonderful. It is available on Netflix (immediate viewing). Will watch tomorrow evening, and looking forward to it!
Tricia, after you watch the movie, might I recommend you head to your local bookstore and buy the original graphic novel that led to the movie? (Or I suppose you could head to Amazon or another e-tailer and get the book just as easily, though it might take a bit longer.) The film actually condenses Satrapi’s 2 GNs, Persepolis and Persepolis 2–the first volume largely recounts her childhood while the second deals with her decision to return as a young woman.
Larry, What’s up with O setting up Nico Pitney of HuffPo to pass on that question (planted?) from an alleged Iranian? I could not make definitie sense out of O’s answer. In a strange way, his seeming to hedge by saying that was up to the Iranian people to determine whether he, our POTUS, would recognize Ahmadinejad’s election, could also be interpreted as a dare to the opposition in Iran to make sure someone else is declared the winner. But who ever knows WTF O means?
I remember the ‘79 revolution, too, though I was just watching as a concerned American. I have read Persepolis and also have a copy of the DVD of the film. There are many excellent books that give the horrid details about life in Iran, but that one gives an excellent first-hand account of living through the revolution and its after effects.
There is no question in my mind: let them know they are not welcome at our celebration. Why were they invited in the first place?
I might forgive TruthDig a little about it’s slobbering over Obama during his campaign.
http://www.truthdig.com/
Truthdig
Iran Had a Democracy Before We Took It Away
http://www.truthdig.com/report/
Posted on Jun 22, 2009
By Chris Hedges
Iranians do not need or want us to teach them about liberty and representative government. They have long embodied this struggle. It is we who need to be taught. It was Washington that orchestrated the 1953 coup to topple Iran’s democratically elected government, the first in the Middle East, and install the compliant shah in power. It was Washington that forced Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh, a man who cared as much for his country as he did for the rule of law and democracy, to spend the rest of his life under house arrest. We gave to the Iranian people the corrupt regime of the shah and his savage secret police and the primitive clerics that rose out of the swamp of the dictator’s Iran. Iranians know they once had a democracy until we took it away.
The fundamental problem in the Middle East is not a degenerate and corrupt Islam. The fundamental problem is a degenerate and corrupt Christendom. We have not brought freedom and democracy and enlightenment to the Muslim world. We have brought the opposite. We have used the iron fist of the American military to implant our oil companies in Iraq, occupy Afghanistan and ensure that the region is submissive and cowed. We have supported a government in Israel that has carried out egregious war crimes in Lebanon and Gaza and is daily stealing ever greater portions of Palestinian land. We have established a network of military bases, some the size of small cities, in Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Kuwait, and we have secured basing rights in the Gulf states of Bahrain, Qatar, Oman and the United Arab Emirates. We have expanded our military operations to Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Egypt, Algeria and Yemen. And no one naively believes, except perhaps us, that we have any intention of leaving.
Flopping Aces has a nice commentary on this
Obama considers what is happening in Iran right now a “debate”?
Okay, let me get this straight:
Debate = military and islamic clerics butchering, shooting, and killings students’ peaceful protests?
As a product of the Civil Rights Movement, this is embarrassing part II…..
Can anyone in this administration THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX and implement actions like sanctions, UN pressure, other nations like Saudia Arabia to intervene, etc… to at least stop the human atrocities occurring so that the Iranians can have a legitimate debate (w/o bloodshed) about the results of the Iranian election?
But Obama never gave the Civil Rights movement or the baby boomers much credit. Remember, he ran as a post-civil rights candidate.
Larry,
Do we really want Imad Mughniyah’s ‘buddy’ running Iran?
Mousavi Was the Butcher of Beirut.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/spytalk/2009/06/mousavi-celebrated-in-iranian.html
Mousavi, Celebrated in Iranian Protests, Was the Butcher of Beirut
He may yet turn out to be the avatar of Iranian democracy, but three decades ago Mir-Hossein Mousavi was waging a terrorist war on the United States that included bloody attacks on the U.S. embassy and Marine Corps barracks in Beirut.
Mousavi, prime minister for most of the 1980s, personally selected his point man for the Beirut terror campaign, Ali Akbar Mohtashemi-pur, and dispatched him to Damascus as Iran’s ambassador, according to former CIA and military officials.
The ambassador in turn hosted several meetings of the cell that would carry out the Beirut attacks, which were overheard by the National Security Agency.
“We had a tap on the Iranian ambassador to Lebanon,” retired Navy Admiral James “Ace” Lyons related by telephone Monday. In 1983 Lyons was deputy chief of Naval Operations, and deeply involved in the events in Lebanon.
“The Iranian ambassador received instructions from the foreign minister to have various groups target U.S. personnel in Lebanon, but in particular to carry out a ’spectacular action’ against the Marines,” said Lyons.
“He was prime minister,” Lyons said of Mousavi, “so he didn’t get down to the details at the lowest levels. “But he was in a principal position and had to be aware of what was going on.”
Lyons, sometimes called “the father” of the Navy SEALs’ Red Cell counter-terror unit, also fingered Mousavi for the 1988 truck bombing of the U.S. Navy’s Fleet Center in Naples, Italy, that killed five persons, including the first Navy woman to die in a terrorist attack.
Bob Baer agrees that Mousawi, who has been celebrated in the West for sparking street demonstrations against the Teheran regime since he lost the elections, was directing the overall 1980s terror campaign.
But Baer, a former CIA Middle East field officer whose exploits were dramatized in the George Clooney movie “Syriana,” places Mousavi even closer to the Beirut bombings.
“He dealt directly with Imad Mughniyah,” who ran the Beirut terrorist campaign and was “the man largely held responsible for both attacks,” Baer wrote in TIME over the weekend.
“When Mousavi was Prime Minister, he oversaw an office that ran operatives abroad, from Lebanon to Kuwait to Iraq,” Baer continued.
“This was the heyday of [Ayatollah] Khomeini’s theocratic vision, when Iran thought it really could export its revolution across the Middle East, providing money and arms to anyone who claimed he could upend the old order.”
Baer added: “Mousavi was not only swept up into this delusion but also actively pursued it.”
Retired Adm. Lyons maintained that he could have destroyed the terrorists at a hideout U.S. intelligence had pinpointed, but he was outmaneuvered by others in the cabinet of President Ronald Reagan.
“I was going to take them apart,” Lyons said, “but the secretary of defense,” Caspar Weinberger, “sabotaged it.”
I think Larry is not advocating for Mousavi as much as for another real revolution, that would get rid of the mullahs’ control.
What is needed is an Iranian Ataturk.
Ataturk was a relatively minor major defending The Gallipoli headland in 1915 .
Turks were called out to defend their land from invaders sent by Winston Churchill .
Ataturk siezed the moment after several inept superiors started losing ground .He defeated the invaders & went on to lead & revamp turkey .
So a parallel would be X defeating an invading army of people sent from halfway round the world who had no reason to be there & suffered huge losses . Turks (read iranians ) also got slaughtered ..so that might make you happy.
Then X would lead Iran to a patchy but largely secular state.
There is also a movie about a western guy in a turkish prison -Was it Midnight Express? I can only remember a topless scene & a masturbation.
Normally I agree with your comments, Diana, but must respectfully disagree. My grandfather was the only survivor of his family, when Kemal’s men slaughtered the Christians (mostly Armenians and Greeks) in Smyrna in 1922. No more Ataturks, please. Let’s hope Iran gets a leader that won’t allow any more senseless slaughters of people he disagrees with. Although it seems unlikely at this point.
I then apologize to you. I do abhor Turkey’s inability to acknowledge and apologize for the Armenian genocide. It needs to work harder at finding a way to find peace with the Kurds and a solution about the Cyprus issue. I was just thinking about his creating a “largely secular state,” as Hot Librarian points out.
I have often pointed out that analogies always break down, so I should have just used general terms and said that. But I will also acknowledge the limitations in thinking that language often imposes, causing us sometimes to resort to bad analogies. I will try better to avoid that.
I must, however, also refer to a statement in Larry’s post:
Larry goes on to tell us we are watching history unfold. It, as sad as it is for me to say this, usually it does mean terrible violence will occur and many totally innocent people will suffer and die. I wish for a peaceful and good solution to end the brutality that the Iranian regime inflicts on many of its people. That’s my idealist alter ego; the one who is a realist knows it probably won’t happen that way.
Hot Librarian’s every comment seems to reflect the Star Trek prime directive about non-interference and to use specific details from history to debunk anything that would advocate interference. I challenge her/him to find an example in earth’s history of a country or cuture that has evolved throughout recorded time without interference and with no violence ever recorded.
I am a huge fan of all the Star Trek series and films, and always loved the prime directive. Though even Hot Librarian should be able to search and see that it was often terribly difficult to follow the directive. But the crew of the Enterprise or of sny of the other vessels were traveling between planets and galaxies in a much more technologically advanced time in the future, not between countries on the same planet during our time period.
I remember reading Buckminster Fuller’s Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth. It inspired many of our generation. I understand Hot Librarian’s impulse to avoid any interference, but I am brought back always to the knowledge that we are all connected here on this planet and must work out problems somehow together. I, like every beauty pageant contestant, want world peace. I don’t think it will happen soon.
Again, I apologize, socalannie. My own four grandparents fled Russia as Stalin was growing in power. Their people suffered years of starvation after the revolution there. I was lucky to be born here, but my individual ethnic history also informs my feelings. I should know better on this site to really choose words carefully.
No need to apologize Diana!
Besides, you’re absolutely correct about Ataturk bouncing out the sultans & caliphs & starting Turkey on secular rule & it would be a relief to see that happening for the poor people of Iran (or any country where religious maniacs rule). My best friend growing up and all thru school was turk and we always thought how ridiculous it was that our ancestors couldn’t get along. Please don’t think I was offended. It was late & I just tossed that out there, since its a little known episode & I did a paper on it once in school. All of the people I spoke to who were there, Turks, Armenians, Greeks, & American Navy guys, (this was in the early 70’s) are now dead. Ethnic history is interesting but you’re right that we were both lucky to be born here!
No need to apologize, Diana!
You are correct about Ataturk bouncing the sultans & caliphs and starting a secular state, which would be a great thing for Iran & any other country that is run by religious maniacs. I was just tossing that out there, since its a little known incident. I’m with you, we are both lucky to be born here, however interesting our ethnic background may be.
Hope this isn’t my 2nd post. Spam filter ate 1st try.
No need to apologize Diana!
You’re right about Ataturk bouncing the sultans & caliphs and starting a secular govt in Turkey, which is obviously a lot better than a religious govt. You & I were both lucky to be born here!
Sorry for the multiple posts! Caught in spam.
I recall when the Lyons operations never moved forward, as I was in Beirut at the time. Of course, being so far down the chain we never knew why it didn’t happen, we just knew that it didn’t happen. We were a bit preoccupied anyway, as in addition to doing our jobs on the streets of Beirut 24/7, we were staying in different safehouses every night (randomly chosen) so as to foil Mughniyah (and others). When I left Beirut, I slept for a week after the flight touched down in the States.
I’m with you up to the point where you said,”Moral support is limousine liberal crap.” The people I am seeing ranting and raving for a harsher tone are all wingnuts. The liberal opinion from Juan Cole to my own friends is that sticking our noses in would harm the people in the street. For that matter, from what I have heard, the people in the streets of Terhan are saying the same thing.
While I impathasize with your perspective that the Iranians should be disinvited to a 4th of July celebration, it has been noted that the Iranians have identified Great Britain as their worse enemy, avoiding designating us in the same way. It hs been suggested that was intentional. If that was meant as some kind of holding out of hand, disinviting them could end up not being in our best interests.
Dear Jamesy, haven’t seen you for a while.
That said, I just wanted to ask you to re-read Larry’s post: You know the part about the mullahs being a threat to the Iranian people. While you are worrying about our best interests and your obsession with lecturing us about what is liberal and what is conservative, Larry is thinking about whats best for Iranians.
I stand with Larry. And ultimately, what’s best for them IS in our best interests.
Dear Diana L.C.,
I’m panting…I didn’t have any idea how much you cared. Actually, I’m certain it isn’t affection but you demonstrating how classless and childish you are when you address me in a manner clearly meant to be pejorative, as Jamesy. Honestly, sweetie, after you post that nothing you have to add counts for anything. We just don’t know each other well enough for you to use the diminutive when addressing me.
It is just amazing how the Obot crowd sucks up the talking point du jour – almost like they dont really have brains of their own.
I’m still not convinced either way on Iran. I know that when WOMEN and CHILDREN are sacrificed for MENS WARS
NO ONE IS THE BETTER OFF
mask it in a revolution
deja vous baby
YES! Persepolis should be on everyone’s Must Watch list. It is so amazingly relevant now as we watch and wait to see how the Irani citizens try to take back their freedoms. Until I saw this video I had no idea of the many liberties lost by Iranians just in my lifetime. This simple story helps so much to give perspective to what is happening now in Iran.
The animated Persepolis is brilliant.
We had received an an Iranian film award a year before for an animated film we had done. The Children’s Film Festival was the pet project of the wife of the Shah.
We have the award on our wall. It is done in the beautiful sweeping calligraphy of old Persian.
Yes, I remember 1979. The Canadian Embassy in Tehran took in Americans who weren’t at the American Embassy. They schooled them in Canadian lore, sent to Ottawa for Canadian Passports for them, and got them out of the country disguised as Canadians.
That “beautiful sweeping calligraphy” is more likely to have been the form used in Modern Iran than an older form. The Persian (Farsi) language has used a modified version of the Arabic script for roughly a millennium (the Arabic script itself is a modified version of an Aramaic script which also provided another Persian script).
Mr. Johnson
What is the average age of the “NCO core” within the IRCG?
Is there any way to, as you put it, “fracture” the The Basij Resistance Force?
CFR. (Has a good section on Political framework for Iran for the novice like me.)
From what I’ve read and heard, Ahmadinejad thinks he, himself, is the Muslim Messiah, the incarnation of the Hidden Iman.
Thats what I am reading.
There was an interview on Ronn Owens today, KGO 810, just before the noon hour with Zahi Hawass, Secretary General of Egypt’s Supreme Council of Antiquities, who showed BO the Pyramids.
He was asked by BO “where are the queens buried?”
Zahi Hawass told BO the queens had a place out side the pyramids”
BO replied, “You mean my queen will not be buried beside me?”
So BO has something in common with them “after life” folks.
DeJa VU indeed.
Considering all the tingling legs and msm suck ups, I guess it all depends on what BO means by “queen.”
This was an interesting story that never caught on.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/10/26/obama-iran-ahmadinejad-oped-cx_at_1026taheri.html
Some interesting stuff in there
Apart from the prophetic references the article also says this:
So, Ahmadinejad may well believe that Islam’s time is now. O-ba-ma is just feeding his ego and giving fuel to the Shia notion that he is their “promised warrior”.
In a game of chess, how would one use this to their advantage?
If one knows there advesary is predisposed to certian move…that maybe an opening.
Or like something out of Mushsi…
.
Well Doc, the little article you cited is chilling. The only reason it doesn’t give me goose-bumps is that I’m all goose-bumped out for this month.
But if the Muslim world is planning on stealing away our Messiah to make him their Mahdi, all I can say is this:
Keep your hands off of our Chosen One! We elected him fair-and-square and he’s Ours! Ours! Ours! You need a Mahdi, why don’t you choose Ahmedinejad, huh? Not so good looking as Thee One, is he? Suffer! O is OUR “promised warrior,” and we’re not gonna share!
Is this really a war betwen competing factions of mullahs? If the current president is ousted, how much better for women will is replacement be?
Larry, why does the American media/politicians obsess about “democracy” & “freedom” in Iran but not about Arabia? Or even Egypt or Jordan for that matter. Even with the mullahs Iran appears to be a more open society than Saudi Arabia. I guess what I’m saying is if Obama/Bush can bow and hold the hand of the King, why can’t he do the same before the ayatollahs?
Larry – while I understand your point, I can’t help but cringe at the thought. I hope this piece of history has a happy ending. Thanks for the insights and the movie recommendation.
Persepolis is a masterpiece. One of my absolute favorites.
This is very off topic but…tonight I was watching “America’s Got Talent” with my 9 year daughter. She loves the show. I’d rather be reading a book. At any rate, this year the show’s host is a black entertainer (Mariah Carrey’s(?) husband.) The show began in front of the White House and then proceeded onto the WH front lawn.
Why in the world did “America’s Got Talent” begin it’s new season on the White House lawn? This is insane.
No talent there.
Barack Obama has no core principles, no moral compass to guide him through his life. He can therefore “wait to see what happens” in a dire situation where a large number of Iranians are fighting and risking even death for a taste of freedom, a chance to determine their own future. A man of principle speaks up against injustice and tyranny wherever it occurs in this world because that’s the moral thing to do, period.
You are 100% correct about Obama’s complete lack of core principles. Well, he has ONE core principle, self promotion. Understanding this basic premise is fundamental in order to make sense of Obama’s reaction to the events in Iran.
This might sound strange, but Obama is angry with the protesters. He’s furious! Yeah, he’ll give tepid lip service to their cause, but he doesn’t really mean it, because they’ve spoiled his plans. For more than a year he has been passing little love notes under the desk to the Iranian leadership, and he’s made no secret that he’ll grovel if needed to get them to soften their hard line. Now, a bunch of selfish rebels have stolen his thunder and they have greatly reduced the stature and legitimacy of the Mullahs in world opinion. Obama has been puffing himself up for a long time in preparation for his confrontation with the powerful, world threatening, Iranian leadership (better the Devil you know). Suddenly, that leadership is no longer so powerful, and it is not even certain that Ahmadinejad is now the guy Obama wants to pander to. Obama’s long planned and orchestrated clash of the Titans has been ruined, but the show must go on, so the 4th of July BBQ can’t be cancelled.
Try to imagine a long promoted prize fight between two of the greatest heavyweights of all time. But then, two days before the fight, one of the fighters gets into a scuffle with a 90 pound woman who clocks him and knocks him on his ass. The upcoming fight just lost all of it’s lustre.
I think it is certain that the US had nothing to do with the events in Iran, it’s not what Obama wanted. He wanted the chance to vanquish and control the Mullahs in a very visible display of his superhuman abilities of universal love and appeasement. Only He can tame the lion so that it will peacefully lie with the lamb.
He has had to take a back seat to the protesters, and to a Narcissist like Obama, that’s devastating.
What you wrote: that’s always been the way I felt about O’s reaction to the demonstators.
Watching his press conference yesterday, I could swear that when he spoke about the protesters that he had to work real hard to conceal his contempt for them. It is beyond his understanding that people like us might actually be interested in something besides him and his burger lunches with Joe. His mock empathy was nearly revealed when he almost laughed when he spoke about Neda, she means nothing to him, and the notion that millions of us are deeply affected by her brutal fate is humorous to him. Remember the inapropriate “gallows humor” laughter during that bizarre interview? he was laughing at all of us and our deep concerns that he considers so petty.
For more than a week the events in Iran have dominated the news, and bumped Obama out of the spotlight. The hastily thrown together press conference yesterday was his attempt to get the focus back on himself. He doesn’t give a spit about people fighting against tyranny, in fact, he is counting on tyranny here to consolidate his power. All of his actions to date indicate that he is devoid of empathy, he can casually joke and laugh at other’s misery, as the only concern in this world is himself.
I realize that his supporters will look at my assessment of him and call it a hyperinflated defamatory exageration, but they would have a hard time disputing it based upon the preponderance of evidence. If you simply apply my assessment while reviewing everything Obama has done, is doing, and plans to do, it becomes crystal clear that my assessment is the best explaination for the motivation behind his actions, and should be considered when predicting his future behavior.
If the CIA had respected the leader of Iran to begin with rather than side with the Brits to depose the Iranian leadership way back when we wouldn’t be in the mess we are today.
We created this monster. I realize it is a hard pill to swallow but it is a required medicine if there is any hope of recovery. It isn’t even rational to assume that further meddling into their affairs will make anything better.
Larry, I truly respect you, but you are completely wrong about his.
Larry, Iranians dying in “plain sight of the world” will not change who has the power in Iran. What you just witnessed is similar to Tiananmen. You may think that those demonstrating are speaking for the majority of Iranians, but I doubt it. When the people stop supporting their government, it falls apart from inside, e.g. Russia. As long as the Iranian guards support the mullahs, nothing will change in Iran.
I’m just a little flabbergasted. This entire discussion is just beyond belief. When will we ever learn? We worry about whether or not we should support a revolution in Iran in the name of humanity while hundreds of thousands have/are dying in Darfur as a direct result of indifference.
I don’t suppose our interest has anything to do with oil or our blind support of Israel? I really don’t know why I should believe our government is an honest player in this situation. We have interfered in the elections in many countries via the CIA all over the world and it’s not like regime change in Iran hasn’t been a topic of discussion among various politicians for years
So we are waiting/hoping for more violence in the streets of Tehran so we will have a really good excuse for doing what? We have two wars which will very probably last another decade. Violence is increasing in Iraq. We haven’t been able to control the Taliban. Our economy is wrecked and we are paying more attention to elections in another country than to what politicians in DC are doing.
Oil is trading at close to $70/barrel. Iran is the forth largest exporter of oil in the world and a nice little revolution there could send the market into the sky. European company, Nokia and Seimens, sold the Iranian government the means to shut down communication while at the same moment, condemning that government. Who says there is a ban on trade with Iran? Halliburton? Who says we don’t trade with countries who support terror. Iran-Contra anyone? There’s nothing morally wrong with illegally selling weapons to Iran to fund another revolution in Nicaragua and then selling weapons to Saddam Hussein to fight a war against the country we sold weapons to.
There has been continual coverage of what is happening in Iran. Tear gas? Used against their own people? People being beaten for protesting? Corrupt elections? Religious tyranny? A beautiful young woman in Iran replacing a beautiful young man in Tienanmen Square as the new poster child as the symbol of human rights abuse and the beat goes on. Where is Shakespeare when another farce needs to be written?
If the endgame is the destabilization of the ME, we will be paying the fiddler. There is a forum for disputed elections and it’s called the UN which would be working the way it was intended if we hadn’t emasculated it. Why don’t we impose some more sanctions? That really helped in North Korea.
elise,
Thank you for your rant. And thank you for reminding us about the people of Darfur. They, too, should be constantly on our minds. I often worry about our short attention spans. They are always directed at the new crisis, and sadly there is always a new crisis.
I would like to see a functioning UN, too. I believe it will take some major concessions on our part and many organizational changes, which are not likely to be given. In any case, we need a real coalition, not that piddling excuse W formed, to work with in the world, one in which we do not always have to lead. (Don’t think O could give up the position, though–He’s working on his next selection as king of the world.)
The sanctions on North Korea really don’t seem to be working well for the Korean people as they might be for us,which at this point isn’t good either. We get much less first-hand reporting from there, and people sending images or messages are dealt with perhaps even more severely. We also need to be allowed in to observe, and by “we,” I mean an observor from an international organization.
The short attention span is aided and abetted by the news media which is more than happy to distract us from the real problems we have.
The remark about sanctions was meant as sarcasm, and you are absolutely right about the info coming out of North Korea. Too bad they haven’t received fountain pens with hidden cameras to inform the world about their miserable lives.
I guess it isn’t politically expedient even though the North Koreans have threatened to retaliate if we interfere with their ship in the Pacific which may or may not be carrying a nuclear weapon(s).
I have a very long term attention span…
All I heard from obots last year…
Obama will get us out of Iraq in 6 months.
Obama will finish the job in Afganistan and get bin laden.
Obama will talk to Iran and we will have peace.
Just curious..
How’s that working for you?
Where is my rant please? Did the spam filter take exception to truth?
The Almighty Spam Filter is an Utterly Indifferent God and does not discriminate between truth or falsehood. All, yea, all, is subject to being cast into the Lake of Fire.
The economic consequences of this situation appear to be lost to most. The current output is +/- 4 million bbls …. 2 of which are required for internal use and 2 of which are required to support the economy through export. If there is a general strike or other interruption, what part of that disappears? Is more economic panic what 0bama wants? Is that potential for oil based eco terrorism vis a vis the Friday vote on cap and trade what most Americans want?
One thing is certain . This Neda person is getting so much better looking eachnew foto that is posted. Today she was practically Angelina look alike .
The lips are getting bigger & the eyebrows have gone north. There are delicate light green eyeshadows winging out from under her eyes.
All of us as teenagers tried to get that intricate makeup. But it just smudged & looked clownish. Only then we learnt about fotoshop.
If the original is not a fake -the aftermath is.
BTW at 27 wasn’t she rather old to be unmarried & a student? Iran didn’t get that huge population explosion without lotza babies young.
I’m having a little trouble following some of the logic here.
While it may invite more worldwide condemnation (which Iranian rulers don’t seem to give a whit about), isn’t it possible that killing even more women, children and elderly will succeed in quelling rather than inciting dissidence in Iraq? From what I’ve seen, the people in the streets are middle class and probably not inclined to become martyrs. Once demonstrations die down, so will news coverage and thus public interest. I guess time will tell.
As well, if a goal is for the mullahs to continue their heavy-handedness, wouldn’t it depend on continued demonstrations? If so, wouldn’t some statesman-like remarks employed to encourage their movement help to achieve the goal?
Is it correct to equate statesmanship with the meddling of the past? How much do the 20-year old, middle class Iranian dissidents of today care about what happened 30-50 years ago?
And this logic baffles me the most: if Iran is not a threat, why should the CIA even bother doing anything?
That last sentence should instead say, “if Iran isn’t a danger to the world…”
Larry,
Having taught Iranians, I am certain the news media is way off course by saying “There are no Leaders”
If you look at the way the young people know when and where to gather, and when they will march in silence or be prepared to fight, there are absolutely leaders. They are operating behind the scenes and are not dumb enough to come forward and introduce themselves to the media and give them contact information.
Given all the factions and plots within plots, my question is ARE THE ACTUAL LEADERS BEHIND the demonstrations known by our intelligence agencies at this point???
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/24/us-contacted-irans-ayatollah-before-election/?source=newsletter_must-read-stories-today_photo_feature
If the letter is real its an example of amateur hour in the White House. It smacks of grade school note passing. But thats not whats interesting to my reading.
It illustrates that the mullah-ocracy will continue to demonize “the west” to stay in power. America is the biggest, baddest guy in “the west”, so of course they talk about us a lot. If we decline, a new “face of the west” will arise. Or we can publish some Mohammed cartoons, like Danmark. They still really hate Danes – not that they have ever seen one.
The latest Obot talking point that we have nothing to say to anyone but “So sorry for our sins” is ridiculous. Telling the mullahs to knock it off is warranted. They are shooting women in the streets. Skateboarding in the white house and hot dog parties with Iranian delegations should not happen.
Could the turmoil in Iran be what Joe Biden was referring to after Obama’s election…namely, that Obama would be challenged in the first 6 months of his presidency and we the people must support him. If it is, then Biden was letting the cat out of the bag. How could anyone but a tinfoil hat lunatic predict the future….unless, of course, someone was mapping out and planning the future. Then again, Biden may have been referring to those other lunatics in North Korea. Considering all of the lunatics running around with bombs and missiles and WMD, Obama is definitely well-advised to keep it low key with respect to Iran. If the US is behind this, we will pay for it, as we have so many times in the past. And just for the record, mullahs and presidents and covert operatives and whoever, if the common good requires sacrifice, it should be from someone who chooses to make the sacrifice, not from innocents.
I don’t know. Iran is a problem and North Korea is threatening to “wipe us off the map”. Seems like Obama has his hands full of crisis.
Larry,
Please give the great Frank Reynolds credit for launching the original “America Held Hostage” in November 1979, which later evolved into “Nightline” over a year later. Ted Koppel took over the original show from Reynolds.
How much you wanna bet that the weasels in the State Dept. are the ones who want to keep open the July 4th invitation to the Iranians?
Careerist appeasers whose goal for US foreign policy is “bend over.”
OK, let’s just patch our intel agencies into Iran’s cell networks, like, we did here with NSA patched into AT&T.
Groovy
U.S. Takes Back July 4 Invitation To Iranians
The White House announced Wednesday that it has rescinded the invitations made to Iranian diplomats who may want to barbecue and watch fireworks to celebrate Independence Day.
“As you all know many weeks ago the administration extended an invitation to celebrate the freedom that this country enjoys. not surprisingly based on what we see in Tehran, no one has RSVP’d,” said White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs.
“Understand that July 4th allows us to celebrate the freedom and liberty that we enjoy. I don’t think it’s surprising that no one has signed up to come given the events of the last few days. Those invitations will be no longer extended.”
READ MORE:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/24/iranians-responding-july-th-embassy-invite/
Damn, those protesters ruined Obama’s Muslim BBQ. And he was already on one knee and puckered up to kiss some Mullah ass. Maybe next year.
Obam’s letter to the Mullahs..
I’m with you Bros!
http://thedailyinstigator.com/2009/06/obama-letter-to-iranian-mullahs-i%E2%80%99m-with-you-bros/
[...] Iran Deja Vu : NO QUARTER“Actually,” he continues, “Osama bin Laden, in my view, represents more of a symptom of a problem, and the problem is this: the Saudi Arabian government, not just Osama bin Laden but many people in Saudi Arabia, have been sending money … [...]
I think Obama’s popularity is falling fast
Today in Latte Land I saw the bumper sticker
Obama = WMD
I pulled up to this kid’s car and gave him a
big thumbs up! Right on!
Then I shouted that Obama is a wimp!!!
You should have seen this guy pounding his fists in agreement.
That’s what I call hope!
Very Good Larry..
Historic Indeed…MAJOR Event..The outcome will change the whole TONE of the Middle East..One way or the other..I Fear it will continue to be an Accelerated and more Brutal CRACKDOWN…Sadly..
At least Millions of Iranians have let the World and the Clerics in Iran Know…They don’t want a Madman or Mad MEN..Abuse POWER so much that it Causes Regional..or Global war…(Armageddon) and destprys Most of Iran..which is the PROJECTED Outcome of these Events..
I’m going Green for SOLIDARITY…and Admire Freedom Loving people..who Take these brave Stands when necessary…
Thanks Larry, I just put it on my netflix.