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	<title>Comments on: SCOTUS and Ricci</title>
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		<title>By: Where Do You Stand on the Sotomayor Nomination? : NO QUARTER</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1228249</link>
		<dc:creator>Where Do You Stand on the Sotomayor Nomination? : NO QUARTER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 05:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1228249</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;SCOTUS and Ricci,&#8221; by LisaB, June 30, 2009: [...] I’ve heard many arguments about the test used with some arguing that “stereotype threat” was part of the problem as well as the possibility that majority AA schools - because of historic discrimination - are not capable of preparing students for such tests and so AA test-takers are disadvantaged. Some also argue that one of the plaintiffs clearly had an advantage because he could take time off to study for the exam. That same plaintiff also paid a friend to read manuals into a recording because the firefighter has dyslexia. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;SCOTUS and Ricci,&#8221; by LisaB, June 30, 2009: [...] I’ve heard many arguments about the test used with some arguing that “stereotype threat” was part of the problem as well as the possibility that majority AA schools &#8211; because of historic discrimination &#8211; are not capable of preparing students for such tests and so AA test-takers are disadvantaged. Some also argue that one of the plaintiffs clearly had an advantage because he could take time off to study for the exam. That same plaintiff also paid a friend to read manuals into a recording because the firefighter has dyslexia. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Obama: Dubya 2 Electric Boogaloo</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223588</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama: Dubya 2 Electric Boogaloo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223588</guid>
		<description>It comes down to lazyiness and taking the path of least resistance. That&#039;s why they really hate this Ricci guy.

For some, it&#039;s much easier to scream &quot;institutionalized racism!&quot; and make some calls to Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson than to actually take personal and individual responsibility. You know, maybe spend a few hours a week improving your reading and writing skills instead of pointing fingers and blaming whitie. 

But, as we saw from Ricci, that might actually take some hard work, perserverance and, gasp, setting aside some money to help you get to that goal. See, much easier to feign the viction and call Reverand Al. I might get what I want without having to put any extra work into it.

Sort of like Acorn and the banks and forcing them to make loans to people who otherwise shouldn&#039;t be qualified to get a home loan. It was much easier to get ACORN and Reverand Al to whip up a shit storm and force them to make loans rather than having people save up and buy a home they could afford. 

And in the end we all suffer, but they sure showed whitie, didn&#039;t they?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It comes down to lazyiness and taking the path of least resistance. That&#8217;s why they really hate this Ricci guy.</p>
<p>For some, it&#8217;s much easier to scream &#8220;institutionalized racism!&#8221; and make some calls to Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson than to actually take personal and individual responsibility. You know, maybe spend a few hours a week improving your reading and writing skills instead of pointing fingers and blaming whitie. </p>
<p>But, as we saw from Ricci, that might actually take some hard work, perserverance and, gasp, setting aside some money to help you get to that goal. See, much easier to feign the viction and call Reverand Al. I might get what I want without having to put any extra work into it.</p>
<p>Sort of like Acorn and the banks and forcing them to make loans to people who otherwise shouldn&#8217;t be qualified to get a home loan. It was much easier to get ACORN and Reverand Al to whip up a shit storm and force them to make loans rather than having people save up and buy a home they could afford. </p>
<p>And in the end we all suffer, but they sure showed whitie, didn&#8217;t they?</p>
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		<title>By: hokma</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223569</link>
		<dc:creator>hokma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223569</guid>
		<description>They don&#039;t listen because it is counter to the self-fulling missions of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who have made a career (and a living) out of leaching off the black community by maintaining their sense of being victims of society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They don&#8217;t listen because it is counter to the self-fulling missions of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who have made a career (and a living) out of leaching off the black community by maintaining their sense of being victims of society.</p>
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		<title>By: Ellen D</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223558</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223558</guid>
		<description>Bill Cosby took a break from his comedy career and got his Doctorate in Education. You&#039;ll see him listed that way on his show credits. 
His murdered son was a teacher and Bill called him &quot;My hero&quot;.
I once worked with Bill. He has many flaws but he was always honest and honorable with us.

Why won&#039;t the black community listen to him? They are turning their backs on an elder statesman to embrace and emulate gangsters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill Cosby took a break from his comedy career and got his Doctorate in Education. You&#8217;ll see him listed that way on his show credits.<br />
His murdered son was a teacher and Bill called him &#8220;My hero&#8221;.<br />
I once worked with Bill. He has many flaws but he was always honest and honorable with us.</p>
<p>Why won&#8217;t the black community listen to him? They are turning their backs on an elder statesman to embrace and emulate gangsters.</p>
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		<title>By: HC123</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223522</link>
		<dc:creator>HC123</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223522</guid>
		<description>I agree, the purpose of affirmative action has been corrupted into a political tool used for the advantage of some over others based on genetics. Exactly what it was supposed to prevent is what it has become.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, the purpose of affirmative action has been corrupted into a political tool used for the advantage of some over others based on genetics. Exactly what it was supposed to prevent is what it has become.</p>
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		<title>By: whoframedrudy</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223513</link>
		<dc:creator>whoframedrudy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223513</guid>
		<description>I wish the SCOTUS vote had not broken down along liberal/conservative lines.  I don&#039;t see this as liberal v. conservative.  I would have voted with the majority.  New Haven was wrong and their action was an insult to blacks.

Now here&#039;s the tough question.  If New Haven had special training for minority applicants so more passed the test, would that discriminate against whites?  No -- that is constitutional under the &#039;compelling state interest&#039; principle.  It might be unfair to an individual white applicant, but it would serve both state interests of producing qualified firemen and increasing diversity.

Take my younger brother and my late older brother.  Same parents, same environment.  Dead brother -- prison, drugs, violent crime, overdose.  Younger brother, criminal justice degree from Northeastern, now a private investigator.  6&#039;3, 250 lbs, all state football player, black belt in martial arts.  Yes, there&#039;s a compelling state interest in not having my younger brother turn out like my older brother. 

As for Obama being an &#039;affirmative action&#039; President?  No, he&#039;s just a typical politician.  You&#039;ve heard the expression &#039;never give a sucker an even break?&#039;  American voters are suckers  -- we vote based on who we &#039;want to have a beer with.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish the SCOTUS vote had not broken down along liberal/conservative lines.  I don&#8217;t see this as liberal v. conservative.  I would have voted with the majority.  New Haven was wrong and their action was an insult to blacks.</p>
<p>Now here&#8217;s the tough question.  If New Haven had special training for minority applicants so more passed the test, would that discriminate against whites?  No &#8212; that is constitutional under the &#8216;compelling state interest&#8217; principle.  It might be unfair to an individual white applicant, but it would serve both state interests of producing qualified firemen and increasing diversity.</p>
<p>Take my younger brother and my late older brother.  Same parents, same environment.  Dead brother &#8212; prison, drugs, violent crime, overdose.  Younger brother, criminal justice degree from Northeastern, now a private investigator.  6&#8242;3, 250 lbs, all state football player, black belt in martial arts.  Yes, there&#8217;s a compelling state interest in not having my younger brother turn out like my older brother. </p>
<p>As for Obama being an &#8216;affirmative action&#8217; President?  No, he&#8217;s just a typical politician.  You&#8217;ve heard the expression &#8216;never give a sucker an even break?&#8217;  American voters are suckers  &#8212; we vote based on who we &#8216;want to have a beer with.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Slim Tyranny</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223480</link>
		<dc:creator>Slim Tyranny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223480</guid>
		<description>&quot;brown clown&quot;? Jesus christ, what&#039;s wrong with you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;brown clown&#8221;? Jesus christ, what&#8217;s wrong with you?</p>
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		<title>By: Slim Tyranny</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223477</link>
		<dc:creator>Slim Tyranny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223477</guid>
		<description>Affirmative action does not preclude merit-based advancement.  An incompetent person does not gain from affirmative action; only the competent and qualified do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Affirmative action does not preclude merit-based advancement.  An incompetent person does not gain from affirmative action; only the competent and qualified do.</p>
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		<title>By: Slim Tyranny</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223476</link>
		<dc:creator>Slim Tyranny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223476</guid>
		<description>Good comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Slim Tyranny</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223474</link>
		<dc:creator>Slim Tyranny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223474</guid>
		<description>You have no idea what you&#039;re talking about.  I mean, literally, you just don&#039;t.

Do you know how many decisions she has been involved in? Do you know how many of those decisions were then appealed to the Supreme Court? Do you know how many of those appeals were then even granted cert?

Learn about the Supreme Court, THEN opine on the &quot;legal mind&quot; you want elevated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have no idea what you&#8217;re talking about.  I mean, literally, you just don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Do you know how many decisions she has been involved in? Do you know how many of those decisions were then appealed to the Supreme Court? Do you know how many of those appeals were then even granted cert?</p>
<p>Learn about the Supreme Court, THEN opine on the &#8220;legal mind&#8221; you want elevated.</p>
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		<title>By: ACPD</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223464</link>
		<dc:creator>ACPD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223464</guid>
		<description>http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/07/01/news/new_haven/a1-firebirdsrespond.txt

This is an article about what the AA firefighters in New Haven are thinking in the light of the recent SC decision.

New Haven has spent  a great deal of money on its school system.  The City is in the process of completely overhauling all of its school buildings and facilities.  While there are local private schools, many Yale faculty members send their kids to the New Haven public schools, because they are excellent.  There are well qualified teachers and many cultural programs available to New Haven kids that other towns can&#039;t afford.  If you want a good education and you live in New Haven, you can get it through the New Haven public schools.  This isn&#039;t a city in which AA kids are not given opportunities.  The question is do they take advantage of those opportunities?  

Also, the test that was prepared for these firefighters was prepared after much research into the actual workings of the the NHFD.  It was not an arbitrary test provided by a group who had no understanding off what the requirements were in NH to do this job.  It was approved by the white Fire Chief and the black Assistant Chief before it was administered.  As a result, even if the AA firefighters do sue, they are not likely to succeed, since part of the discrimination laws deals with intent.  Clearly, a strenuous effort was made to create a fair test; that undermines any claim of disparate conduct.

The bottomline remains what are the requirements of a job and how do you predict success in that job?  Tests are not perfect; but they have been proven over time to measure skills. The color of a person&#039;s skin is not a measure of skills or success.  I support Affirmative Action, as it was intended....to provide opportunities for &quot;equally qualified&quot; people who have been historically disadvantaged.  When you give a test based on materials and experiences available to everyone and then hold two groups to different standards of success, you are not applying the principles of affirmative action.  You are discriminating in favor of one group over the other.  Sadly, that has happened so often that now affirmative action is almost unrecognizable....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/07/01/news/new_haven/a1-firebirdsrespond.txt" rel="nofollow">http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/07/01/news/new_haven/a1-firebirdsrespond.txt</a></p>
<p>This is an article about what the AA firefighters in New Haven are thinking in the light of the recent SC decision.</p>
<p>New Haven has spent  a great deal of money on its school system.  The City is in the process of completely overhauling all of its school buildings and facilities.  While there are local private schools, many Yale faculty members send their kids to the New Haven public schools, because they are excellent.  There are well qualified teachers and many cultural programs available to New Haven kids that other towns can&#8217;t afford.  If you want a good education and you live in New Haven, you can get it through the New Haven public schools.  This isn&#8217;t a city in which AA kids are not given opportunities.  The question is do they take advantage of those opportunities?  </p>
<p>Also, the test that was prepared for these firefighters was prepared after much research into the actual workings of the the NHFD.  It was not an arbitrary test provided by a group who had no understanding off what the requirements were in NH to do this job.  It was approved by the white Fire Chief and the black Assistant Chief before it was administered.  As a result, even if the AA firefighters do sue, they are not likely to succeed, since part of the discrimination laws deals with intent.  Clearly, a strenuous effort was made to create a fair test; that undermines any claim of disparate conduct.</p>
<p>The bottomline remains what are the requirements of a job and how do you predict success in that job?  Tests are not perfect; but they have been proven over time to measure skills. The color of a person&#8217;s skin is not a measure of skills or success.  I support Affirmative Action, as it was intended&#8230;.to provide opportunities for &#8220;equally qualified&#8221; people who have been historically disadvantaged.  When you give a test based on materials and experiences available to everyone and then hold two groups to different standards of success, you are not applying the principles of affirmative action.  You are discriminating in favor of one group over the other.  Sadly, that has happened so often that now affirmative action is almost unrecognizable&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: elizabethrc</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223461</link>
		<dc:creator>elizabethrc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223461</guid>
		<description>Bill Cosby understands this and has been preaching this to the black community for a long time.  They seem not to be listening.
Personal responsibility (and accoutability) are the first steps to success and blacks still seem not willing to accept this fact.  Until they do, they will continue to not do well in tests of this kind.  The fault lies not with the test, but with why those who took the test failed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill Cosby understands this and has been preaching this to the black community for a long time.  They seem not to be listening.<br />
Personal responsibility (and accoutability) are the first steps to success and blacks still seem not willing to accept this fact.  Until they do, they will continue to not do well in tests of this kind.  The fault lies not with the test, but with why those who took the test failed.</p>
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		<title>By: JozefAL</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223433</link>
		<dc:creator>JozefAL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 05:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223433</guid>
		<description>Well, I can&#039;t say without actually seeing how much of a difference there was in the score.
If the white guy at #1 had a 68, and the black guy at #3 had a 66, I&#039;m not sure I&#039;d be happy with either one getting the job.
If the white guy at #1 had a 98 and the black guy at #3 had a 96, then I&#039;d say they&#039;re pretty equal.
But, let me throw this out for you.  You&#039;re a white guy who didn&#039;t serve in the military and you score a 100 on a civil service test, but some white veteran only scored a 91 on the same test, but HE got the job because he received a 10-point bonus for military service, netting him a final score of 101.  Technically, on the sheer basis of the test, you were the better qualified, but because the city/state/whatever is under a mandate to give preference to &quot;veterans&quot; (no matter what the nature of their actual service or even how long their service), the ex-military guy gets the job.  Is that any fairer?  Sorry, but the only acceptable answer is NO.  But you don&#039;t hear howls of protest or outrage from people over the &quot;special treatment&quot; shown to ex-military.  The reality, though, is that &quot;special treatment&quot; is &quot;special treatment&quot; regardless of who benefits.  (For more fun, a black veteran will wind up getting preference over a white veteran, a female veteran will get preference over a male veteran.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I can&#8217;t say without actually seeing how much of a difference there was in the score.<br />
If the white guy at #1 had a 68, and the black guy at #3 had a 66, I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;d be happy with either one getting the job.<br />
If the white guy at #1 had a 98 and the black guy at #3 had a 96, then I&#8217;d say they&#8217;re pretty equal.<br />
But, let me throw this out for you.  You&#8217;re a white guy who didn&#8217;t serve in the military and you score a 100 on a civil service test, but some white veteran only scored a 91 on the same test, but HE got the job because he received a 10-point bonus for military service, netting him a final score of 101.  Technically, on the sheer basis of the test, you were the better qualified, but because the city/state/whatever is under a mandate to give preference to &#8220;veterans&#8221; (no matter what the nature of their actual service or even how long their service), the ex-military guy gets the job.  Is that any fairer?  Sorry, but the only acceptable answer is NO.  But you don&#8217;t hear howls of protest or outrage from people over the &#8220;special treatment&#8221; shown to ex-military.  The reality, though, is that &#8220;special treatment&#8221; is &#8220;special treatment&#8221; regardless of who benefits.  (For more fun, a black veteran will wind up getting preference over a white veteran, a female veteran will get preference over a male veteran.)</p>
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		<title>By: SWPAnnA</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223405</link>
		<dc:creator>SWPAnnA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223405</guid>
		<description>Give Jesse a break, it&#039;s JJJunior (Candidate #5) who walks that talk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give Jesse a break, it&#8217;s JJJunior (Candidate #5) who walks that talk.</p>
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		<title>By: foxx</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/06/30/scotus-and-ricci/#comment-1223399</link>
		<dc:creator>foxx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=26991#comment-1223399</guid>
		<description>These are tests for promotion to supervisory positions. Positions that require comprehensive knowledge. They are not front line firefighting positions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are tests for promotion to supervisory positions. Positions that require comprehensive knowledge. They are not front line firefighting positions.</p>
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