Comments on: Will “Cap-and-Trade” be the Next Bubble? http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/ Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:43:22 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Patience http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224817 Patience Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:14:50 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224817 Docelder, while I certainly appreciate and enjoy your comments, I didn't write "you're my new favorite blogger"! I have no idea why or how that remark got attached to my post! Best regards! Docelder, while I certainly appreciate and enjoy your comments, I didn’t write “you’re my new favorite blogger”! I have no idea why or how that remark got attached to my post!

Best regards!

]]> By: Decarbonator http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224550 Decarbonator Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:58:55 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224550 Linda, you need to educate yourself more on the subject. the logic of some people, companies, industries or states making sacrifices to cut pollution, so others could “buy” the rights to add pollution is very simple. Unlike acid rain which is a local phenomenon, greenhouse gases travel around the globe and it doesn't matter if emissions are cut in Florida or New York. Each emitter receives certain number of allowances to pollute. That's the cap. The cap decreases every few years to force the pollutters to reduce emissions. It gets to the point where it is very expensive or technology is not available. But in other places, like Iowa, a farmer cuts methane emissions from his cow manure, uses this biogas to generate electricity for his farm. For this he gets: 1. lower electricity bill 2. his local power plant burns less fosil fuel i.e. less CO2 emissions 3. the farmer gets carbon credit which he can sell to a power company company in Florida which used all the available technology to cut their emissions. the offsets is equal to an allowance. That's the trade. It's a win win situation. Offsets are a cost containment of the system. without them the cost of electricity would really increase a lot. Will GS make money in the system? Probably. Someone has to finance the anaerobic digester in Iowa. Someone has to provide liquidity to the market whether it's Chicago Climate Exchange or some other exchange. Because when the farmer in Iowa is ready to sell his carbon credits, the power company in Florida might not be ready to buy. Cap and trade means that the fittest, more inovative emitters survive. Those who know how cut pollutions sell to those who don't. Soon, the big polluters have to shut down because they cannot buy those allowances for ever. Rollings Stones doesn't like it? Strange, because they buy voluntary offsets to appear carbon neutral. Somehow you don't hear that they print on recycled paper to save the trees. And that's called hypocracy. Linda,

you need to educate yourself more on the subject.
the logic of some people, companies, industries or states making sacrifices to cut pollution, so others could “buy” the rights to add pollution is very simple. Unlike acid rain which is a local phenomenon, greenhouse gases travel around the globe and it doesn’t matter if emissions are cut in Florida or New York. Each emitter receives certain number of allowances to pollute. That’s the cap. The cap decreases every few years to force the pollutters to reduce emissions. It gets to the point where it is very expensive or technology is not available. But in other places, like Iowa, a farmer cuts methane emissions from his cow manure, uses this biogas to generate electricity for his farm. For this he gets:
1. lower electricity bill
2. his local power plant burns less fosil fuel i.e. less CO2 emissions
3. the farmer gets carbon credit which he can sell
to a power company company in Florida which used all the available technology to cut their emissions.
the offsets is equal to an allowance. That’s the trade.

It’s a win win situation. Offsets are a cost containment of the system. without them the cost of electricity would really increase a lot.

Will GS make money in the system? Probably. Someone has to finance the anaerobic digester in Iowa. Someone has to provide liquidity to the market whether it’s Chicago Climate Exchange or some other exchange. Because when the farmer in Iowa is ready to sell his carbon credits, the power company in Florida might not be ready to buy.

Cap and trade means that the fittest, more inovative emitters survive. Those who know how cut pollutions sell to those who don’t. Soon, the big polluters have to shut down because they cannot buy those allowances for ever.

Rollings Stones doesn’t like it? Strange, because they buy voluntary offsets to appear carbon neutral.
Somehow you don’t hear that they print on recycled paper to save the trees. And that’s called hypocracy.

]]> By: Ferd Berfle http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224288 Ferd Berfle Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:55:04 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224288 Another comment lost to the Almighty Spam-Smiter. Can I have my comment extricated from its talons, please? Another comment lost to the Almighty Spam-Smiter.

Can I have my comment extricated from its talons, please?

]]> By: Ferd Berfle http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224285 Ferd Berfle Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:52:43 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224285 Partisanship exists with or without the media. Extremists who care more for their own self-interest than the good of the country have been around far longer than the MSM. Indeed, the MSM is playing the extremists and vice versa much like the extremists have been playing the rest of us. Partisanship exists with or without the media. Extremists who care more for their own self-interest than the good of the country have been around far longer than the MSM. Indeed, the MSM is playing the extremists and vice versa much like the extremists have been playing the rest of us.

]]> By: Docelder http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224263 Docelder Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:34:54 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224263 I am humbled. ;) I am humbled. ;)

]]> By: Patience http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224262 Patience Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:20:03 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224262 Interesting point Docelder, but I'm more inclined to think the media highlight partisanship to create the phony sense there's a sporting difference that doesn't truly exist, in order to boost viewership and ratings. OH! You're my new favorite blogger fyi Interesting point Docelder, but I’m more inclined to think the media highlight partisanship to create the phony sense there’s a sporting difference that doesn’t truly exist, in order to boost viewership and ratings.
OH! You’re my new favorite blogger fyi

]]> By: Patience http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224204 Patience Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:11:58 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224204 Interesting point Docelder, but I'm more inclined to think the media highlight partisanship to create the phony sense there's a sporting difference that doesn't truly exist, in order to boost viewership and ratings. Interesting point Docelder, but I’m more inclined to think the media highlight partisanship to create the phony sense there’s a sporting difference that doesn’t truly exist, in order to boost viewership and ratings.

]]> By: Docelder http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224198 Docelder Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:49:44 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224198 <blockquote>It makes one wonder if there’s really much true partisanship in the highest levels of governance</blockquote> What if partisanship as propagated by the 24/7 media exists primarily as a contrived method to divide and control?

It makes one wonder if there’s really much true partisanship in the highest levels of governance

What if partisanship as propagated by the 24/7 media exists primarily as a contrived method to divide and control?

]]> By: Patience http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224196 Patience Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:33:37 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224196 Thanks for calling our attention to this article Linda. While I have a jaded opinion of Taibbi, I have to admit that my hair stood up when I read his article. It may be that he's put a particularly sinister spin on Goldman Sachs MO, but I have to admit that ever since last fall when Hank Paulsen (former head of GS) proposed the huge bailout, I've awakened to the key participation of former GSers in government, now and in the past. It makes one wonder if there's really much true partisanship in the highest levels of governance. Thanks for calling our attention to this article Linda. While I have a jaded opinion of Taibbi, I have to admit that my hair stood up when I read his article. It may be that he’s put a particularly sinister spin on Goldman Sachs MO, but I have to admit that ever since last fall when Hank Paulsen (former head of GS) proposed the huge bailout, I’ve awakened to the key participation of former GSers in government, now and in the past. It makes one wonder if there’s really much true partisanship in the highest levels of governance.

]]> By: OMG http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224161 OMG Fri, 03 Jul 2009 07:43:54 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224161 Al Gore is part of this fiasco. He has his fingers in the wall street collection plate. Didn't he just open a brokerage on wall street for barky? He's in on this <strike>game</strike> bill that Nancy Pelousy wrote to <strike>screw</strike> take more money from middle-class America. As for this thread. This is deep. The web of Goldman's control and greed is endless. Who let the dogs out? Al Gore is part of this fiasco. He has his fingers in the wall street collection plate. Didn’t he just open a brokerage on wall street for barky? He’s in on this game bill that Nancy Pelousy wrote to screw take more money from middle-class America.

As for this thread. This is deep. The web of Goldman’s control and greed is endless.

Who let the dogs out?

]]> By: jangles http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224142 jangles Fri, 03 Jul 2009 04:45:14 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224142 Bush 41 and 43---big links to the Carlyle Group. I think Cheney is also significantly involved. I think it is really major to see this pathway connecting Obama to the cap and trade history, to learn about GS involvement---it is also very depressing. I thought the Bush years would never end and now I find they have not ended but worsened. Bush 41 and 43—big links to the Carlyle Group. I think Cheney is also significantly involved. I think it is really major to see this pathway connecting Obama to the cap and trade history, to learn about GS involvement—it is also very depressing. I thought the Bush years would never end and now I find they have not ended but worsened.

]]> By: Docelder http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224140 Docelder Fri, 03 Jul 2009 04:40:23 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224140 <blockquote>Ford Motor company…… The unscathed US motor company</blockquote> Maybe we might want to rethink slapping them on the back for making it without being assimilated. They now have the monopoly on the car market as we knew it. GM is going to be building electric scooters and selling carbon credits for the savings of carbon from not producing cars. And we have Baxter International Inc. maker of the spanking new H1N1 vaccine. A little something for everybody... who knew? I think we all did know, but just couldn't place it. There is a Pulitzer Prize in this, if somebody with a journalistic reputation has it in them to take this on.

Ford Motor company…… The unscathed US motor company

Maybe we might want to rethink slapping them on the back for making it without being assimilated. They now have the monopoly on the car market as we knew it. GM is going to be building electric scooters and selling carbon credits for the savings of carbon from not producing cars. And we have Baxter International Inc. maker of the spanking new H1N1 vaccine. A little something for everybody… who knew? I think we all did know, but just couldn’t place it. There is a Pulitzer Prize in this, if somebody with a journalistic reputation has it in them to take this on.

]]> By: Susan B. Athena http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224135 Susan B. Athena Fri, 03 Jul 2009 04:27:43 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224135 Ford Motor company...... The unscathed US motor company on this board.....hmmmm. Ford Motor company…… The unscathed US motor company on this board…..hmmmm.

]]> By: tek http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224102 tek Fri, 03 Jul 2009 01:48:28 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224102 J. J. : I agree, Al Gore should have been sworn in after he won the 2000 election. J. J. : I agree, Al Gore should have been sworn in after he won the 2000 election.

]]> By: tek http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/07/02/will-cap-and-trade-be-the-next-bubble/#comment-1224101 tek Fri, 03 Jul 2009 01:46:49 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=27139#comment-1224101 Linda: good article. The green thinkers driving their Hummers and waiting to buy the next newest thing. Exactly. I always get a chuckle when I'm at Whole Foods and see all the Hummers, Jags, Mercedes, etc. I think cap and trade is just another one of Obama's compromising on real democratic values so he can please the big money people who put him in office. Linda: good article. The green thinkers driving their Hummers and waiting to buy the next newest thing. Exactly. I always get a chuckle when I’m at Whole Foods and see all the Hummers, Jags, Mercedes, etc.

I think cap and trade is just another one of Obama’s compromising on real democratic values so he can please the big money people who put him in office.

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