Are We Training Our Own Domestic Terrorists?
By Pat Racimora on July 14, 2009 at 10:01 PM in 9/11, Civil Liberties & Rights, Civil Rights Act of 1964, Hate Speech, Human Rights, Soldiers/Veterans, Terrorism
Are extremists infiltrating our own military to the point of inadvertently training terrorists who will attack us in the future? It turns out that at least 40 persons who list their occupation as “military” are profiled on the Internet forum New Saxon, a Facebook-like site operated by the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement.
Is this a real problem? Or is it just another conspiracy theory, the kind that boils all-too-freely in a country now ruled by fear?
The Southern Poverty Law Center is not known for being on the batshit fringe. Quite the contrary. Helping to implement the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965, as well as making courtroom challenges that resulted in equal benefits for women in the military, ending involuntary sterilization of women on welfare, reform of prison conditions, are among the organzation’s many victories. The first civil suit against a major Klu Klux Klan was brought by the SPLC, and it has been riding the Klan’s ass ever since.
But hate crimes go on, and the SPLC continues its mission to protect America from its own destructive elements. Its concern about white supremacists infiltrating the military is not new. While reaffirming that the overwhelming majority of men and women in uniform reject extremism and are dedicated to our country’s ideals, based on new evidence the SPLC is engaging in a new push to investigate. A letter to those of us on the SPLC email list reads, in part:
We’ve been warning the Pentagon about the danger of extremists in the military for more than two decades. In 2008, the FBI issued a report indicating that the problem may have worsened. Unfortunately, the Pentagon has not taken forceful action.
Indeed, the Pentagon appears to consider homosexuals more of a threat to the good order of the military than neo-Nazis who reject our Constitution’s most cherished principles. While the military has discharged more than 12,500 service members because of their alleged homosexuality since 1994, it has refused to adopt a true “zero tolerance” policy when it comes to extremists in the military.
A more detailed letter was sent to the chairs of the House and Senate committees on Homeland Security and Armed Services, copied to Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, and Under Secretary of Defense David S.C. Chu. See it here.
Yet, what damage could realistically be done by a few dozen hate-filled members of the armed services? The potential could be two-fold: (1) these individuals are learning warfare skills, and (2) they are in a position to recruit new haters. And lest we not forget Sergeant Timothy McVeigh, a name that still sends chills up our collective spine. (If you have not yet visited the memorial on the bombing site in Oklahoma City I dare you to hold it together when you see those 19 “little chairs” representing the murdered children). It takes only a few, as we also recall from the Twin Tower terrorists who learned to fly on our soil.
So, are you worried about this?
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By Sarah Palin (Release date: November 17. 2009)
Sounds like the typical thought-police activity of the SPLC to me. So yeah, I am worried, but not in the way you seem to be. Kudos to the Pentagon for not castigating so-called “extremists” for having unpopular political views.
This is America, and our founders, Jefferson in particular, were of the opinion that opinions were themselves benign. If someone wants to think in neo-nazi terms, fine. Don’t know if I need to remind you of this, but a “La Raza” supporter has been nominated to our supreme court, and from where I am sitting I see little difference between that group and neo-nazis. Really. Both groups promote agendas that concern their own people, sometimes aggressively so.
If someone like Mc Veigh breaks the law, then torch the bastard. But launching pre-emptive strikes on “potential criminals” for their extreme views, or rounding up all the so-called “haters” BEFORE they commit ACTUAL crimes–THAT would be the real tyranny, my friend.
If someone wants to be an angry young lad, I would be inclined to let him, that is, until he breaks the law. I would be angry too if I had been sent to Iraq for NO GOOD REASON. That’s the real crime here. SPLC is barking up the wrong tree, as usual.
Wonderful toon, Pat.
Very interesting post. Much to think about. We are doing so many disservices to our military it is truly shameful.
Agreed oin all counts. POWERFUL toon, Pat - thank you!
You’ve never worked with the criminally inclined, apparently. That’s a land very few regular folks visit with any sense of empathy after awhile.
While I don’t care for profiling for it’s own sake, I do believe that if there is sufficient proof that someone would sell, reproduce, incite, or train others in anti-American warfare and/or technology, then those people have no business being anywhere near the military.
The lack of vetting gave us Obama. Why not determine a person’s intent and background before entering the military?
I refer you to Richard Butler and the Aryan Nations as a starting point.
My comment was to Montrose - sorry.
While neo-nazis are a concern, far more dangerous and insidious are the Christian fanatics who have assiduously evangelized our military.
They have taken over the Air Force Academy and are deeply entrenched at the Pentagon, co-opting the entire Air Force Officer Corps and making serious inroads into the reliability of the Pentagon elite.
Their agenda includes turning the United States into a “christian” nation ending the separation of church and state and enforcing membership in the christian faith. They ardently believe that these are the End Days and that we are close to Armageddon and the Second Coming.
Look up Military Missions Network and Military Ministry for more information and see Mike Weinstein’s Military Religious Freedom Foundation for information on epeople fighting these subversives.
Also note that Eric Prince, founder of the mercenary corporation Xe (nee Blackwater) is a fundamentalist Christian with the same agenda as those mentioned above.
I also saw the radical christian message in a couple of persons released from prison. Seems it may have replaced, or is at least competing with, the black muslim theology that has been a prison mainstay for the last forty years or so.
Prison tats and the Bible are a strange mix.
How sad that we have come from the heroism of the 4 chaplains who gave their lives by giving their life vests to sailors on a sinking ship. 4 men of different religions all showed their courage and love of their fellow man.
I do not know if it still there but there was a chapel named for them in Philadelphia.
This is what I think religion should be but few men can live up to that standard.
too often religion is used as a weapon to divide and gain power.
WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE
Speaking of prison influence, we here in the 86th District, Indiana, just voted in our first “Converted to Islam While In Prison,” representative.
He was financially backed by the DNC (Nancy Pelosi’s PAC donated $10,000 to his campaign), and replaced a hard-working local hero, known for taking on the establishment.
Yes, I’m concerned.
Then you have the Muslims going into our prisons and recruiting for Islam. They seem to target angry black young men. Strangely enough they are successful. Given the history of slavery then and still today it seems strange that they would be able to recruit any.
In articles that I have read the aim of extreme Islam is to recruit western men who would not fit the terrorist profile,or look like Arabs. For the purpose of jihad.
Why does no one bring this to light?
Strange that there is now the demonizing of our soldiers. As for Timothy McVeigh,we will never know the truth behind that bombing. Was he guilty, absolutely. Was he a tool? In my opinion yes.
So demonize our troops and then open the door for the so called citizen army?
CDP–Very well stated. I will have to do a toon and story about your concerns. So many stories, so little time.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that most of the many, many service men and women I know are kids looking for a way to do the right thing and maybe get some training that will help them advance a little in life. Many come from small towns and many come from cities, but usually they see the military as a way to get ahead and out of their pverty or lower middle class lives. Some of my best, most dedicated students in freshman college courses were ex-military getting their chance for a college education. They were far more mature and self disciplined than the rest of the 18-year-olds spending Daddy’s dime and groaning and moaning about having to take morning classes, eating dorm food, or actually doing homework.
We should hear from our many ex-military or current millitary commenters.
Diana LC–I agree about ex-military being exemplary in many ways. We hear mostly about their problems–PTSD, deug use, suicide, etc. and not enough about their accomplishments. As a professor, I was always delighted when I learned that a vet was taking my class. They knew what the world was about and how to respect an educational opportunity. (And, I say with a smile, sometimes they even helped bring an unruly freshman class to order!).
I would note that the SPLC is careful to describe those who serve in our armed forces as overall and overwhelmingly outstanding citizens.
Your cartoon and commentary raise legitimate concerns, but we should be wary of engaging in witch hunts. The defense department has been concerned about gangs and extremists infiltrating the military for a number of years, as is indicated in the below abstract:
http://www.stormingmedia.us/15/1559/A155953.html?searchTerms=Extremists~military
this is a witch hunt.the emphasis on KKK says it all. how about the reverse racism these days? how do ya’ll like that?
There should be NO racism–have to attack it from all sides and wherever it hides.
tricia, i don’t know if you are aware of it but reverse racism has raised it’s ugly head. it in my view is even worse due to the false self righteous attitude displayed when applying it. in fact i look for it and obama to tear this country even further apart than the repubs have done.
I do know about it. The fireman case in New York is an example. We had some of the same high profile cases in medical school admission a while back.
I agree that reverse racism is a bad thing. I also would like to find a way to raise kids who need more up, ideally when they are young.
I recall going into a music store once and hearing the most amazing piano playing coming from far in the back corner. I went to see, and it was a tiny Black kid, perhaps 6 or 7 years old. I asked the manager about him. He said, “Oh he walks all the way here from the bad part of town and we let him play because he is so good. Never took a lesson. Too bad he is so poor and will probably never get good training or a chance.” There are a lot of those folks out there with many different potentials–I wish we could find them and give them that chance.
Yesterday, the NYT had an article on children of Somali immigrants who reached young adulthood, and returned to the home country to work with Al Quaeda. They said that there is nothing indicating that they are planning anything dastardly on U.S. soil, but it’s only a matter of time.
Lol, the same thing has been happening in Europe as long as Somali immigrants have existed. Nothing has been done about it since that would of course be “racist”. But the thing is, Somalia is a very conservative muslim country and they take that culture with them when they move abroad.
There’s a real time bomb in Scandinavia where Somali terrorists travel to recruit more forces for their wars. Ironically, it’s the Somalis themselves that are asking something to be done since they believe the strong anti-west sentiments will soon move the war to Scandinavia aswell. What has been done? Nothing. It’s racist to say that one nationality would commit more terrorism than another. Implying that there’s any difference between an ethnic Christian Swede in Sweden and a conservative muslim immigrant from a war-torn country will land you in jail. You have no idea how bad the political correctness is in Europe.
it sounds like a pot ready to boil.
Hey Pat neat artwork. For me even on nazi salute against the red white and blue is offensive.
Ya got to love art.
So Back When Erik Prince and Blackwater, who owns the largest stockpile of weapons outside the military, was :training: :S people, ya think all mercs are present and accounted for?
We have lowered the standards for service, not that KSM was an uneducated, but yes we train so many of them we can’t keep track. The FBI is very concerned about mil tactics used by 13 and like groups I read recently.
so how about the terrorism in other groups? your emphasis on white terorism is disheartening to say the least. how about the black panthers? how about possible latino terrorists? come on, expand your comments if you want to bring this issue up. what you do is leave yourself in my humble view looking like there might be an agenda here.
My thoughts too.
This is definitely agenda driven.
Hey Stodgieameri–Give me a little bit of a break here. I am the illutrator/cartoonist for NQ who writes little stories about what I draw. I can’t do everything in one piece. I get ideas for future drawings from comments though, and I like a few on this thread. Watch for them in upcoming drawings.
pat, i respectfully request that you give us a break. you could very easily have covered other groups but you made the choice not to do so.
again with respect this is a hot issue that demcorats are pushing to divert us. i don’t appreicate seeing people with “white” skin as it were starting to be labeled terrorists. the wave of terrorism from mexico and the shooting of the solider by a muslim scares me more than the items you discuss. thanks
Gotcha stogie! I HAVE done other groups!!!!! It was this group’s turn.
pat, what’s with the gotcha? is that how you think? i am concerned about this diary no matter what other diares are written. it is a very real concern with no gotcha involved.
Well, you are on my case and you made a false statement.
To wit:
But I don’t want to argue with you. We cover all sorts of stories here, some of which I think your would fully agree with and others not. It’s the nature of No Quarter–take no prisoners!
pat, when you post a diary especially on a hot button issue, please expect not all will agree with you. thanks
I know there will be disagreements–and that is part of what makes it fun to be here. We try to be civil, and you are basically civil so I don’t complain about that. Only your mis-statement of fact about my choices.
No, I am not the least bit worried. I first became aware of this “problem” as a Marine lieutenant in 1976. The Corps had these types, which are very few in number, completely identified and thoroughly neutralized. Most of them spent their days on mess duty or painting rocks red and gold, safely away from firearms and explosives until they received their justly-deserved general discharges.
As far as most soldiers are concerned, these guys are fringe nuts who are, for the most part, marginally performing soldiers. They have little or no credibility within the ranks and their pathetic recruiting efforts are generally met with laughs and derision by the average soldier.
If Timothy McVeigh is the best they can do since the mid 1970s then no, I am not too worried. But don’t take my word for it. Ask any soldier.
Retired, great post. I concur.
Huh? Timothy McVeigh blew up a federal building. You may not be worried but I sure am.
dcmediagirl, i am more worried about my country going down the tubes than the let’s hate whites agenda the dims are cooking up to divert us.
Yeah, and Al Qaeda has taken out the World Trade Center, a chunk of the Pentagon, two embassies, the Khobar tower and more than a few American soldiers in half of the time. As threats go, McVeigh and those of his ilk are on page two.
Right now the only domestic terrorists I’ve seen prowl the halls of Congress.
Wrong. This is a democracy and we Americans have elected them to represent us. They represent us. If you don’t like who we voted for, try to elect someone else or run for office yourself. Or do you just not like Americans?
Seriously? Then you must have agreed with the DNC fraud tactics to get Obama the nomination.
Let’s not get too simplistic.
But I do agree that if someone, say like Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid, is not looking out for the best interests of their constituents or the nation they need to be removed when their term is up.
Hey it looks like from the get go of the primary we had two chooses Obama or a Republican(I truly feel that the Republican primary was legit).
Once the Dems got done with their farse we had a choice of Obama or McCain….With all the crap that ACORN was pulling I’m not really sure if the Dems(Obama) legitimately won. I think and pray that ACORN was not big enough to pull off that big of a general election fraud.
Technically, the US is not a Democracy but a Republic.
Far From United
http://townhall.com/columnists/TimMontgomerie/2009/07/14/far_from_united
tzada, when you bend over too far you fall flat on your face.
or your buttery backside.
What the SPLC fails to mention is that there is no evidence those persons are associated with the military in any way, shape of form. They simply claim this of themselves on a website. I’d like to see evidence that any significant portion of military personnel are involved, even peripherally, in hate groups. I certainly never saw this in the 15 years I was in (primarily ARNG), although there were stories from 20 years previous.
let the military deal with any such issues. the attempt by this diary to politicize it with an emphasis poorly done i might add of white terrorism is disgusting.
the dims are cooking up scapegoats to get us off their case about their pathetic performance.
Interesting subject matter, and only the tip of the iceberg of the kinds of things that should really frighten us.
As we become more in need of soldiers and we lower our standards and do very little if any background checks why should we be surprised that clever enemies of this country could not figure out that getting free military training from the country they are going to attack is cost effective? The perfect irony.
So now with our need for revenge and punishment (putting people in jail), instead of legalizing drugs and prostitution plus understanding people and their needs as well as putting resources into rehabilitation we have two great sources for our enemies to use as recruiting and training grounds. You say what two? I say prisons and the military.
Add to this the fact that what the government and greedy people have done to the economy, which has made more people feel angry and powerless, and you have another great source for the enemies of this country and our society to draw upon. The enemy I speak of or the terrorists I speak of are gangs who recruit the out-of-work youth and become more powerful every day in part because of the drug trade. In addition our money goes to drug lords who finance wars against us and bribing police. Then there are things like the Russian and other types of mafia style groups operating in the United States and yes we have a great deal to be afraid of.
Rich
I also don’t assume that all those who say they are “military” are necessarily really military members, either current or past. I think saying you’re military is considered a plus since it implies knowledge of weapons, combat operations, tactical training, group membership and working in a team and following orders. All which are attractive to terrorist groups, no matter their base ideology.
As long as a member is well read enough and not an overt braggart with unbelievable stories &/or their service was long enough ago to not be easily verified or discounted, I figure many could fake being associated with the military because they believe it gives them status.
Just like posters on dating sites are quite often “financial secure” or “athletically built” when in real life they live with their mom or are about 30 pounds past their athletic prime. Just saying you are doesn’t make it so in real life.
I hope and trust the military weeds these people out because they are a disgrace to the fine men and women who serve honorably.
actually rich it is a little more complex than all those bad people picking on minorities. i agree that throwing people in prisons isn’t always the answer. out of work youth might try actually geting a job. clean up and learn how to interview is helpful. is is their job to get a job and not ours to spoonfeed them. ethic/color has nothing to do with socialization in reality. people are taught they are victims and that is their mindset from then on till they die. that does them and society no damx good. there are some prominent african americans who spoken to this very issue. under johnson the great society was basically a failure, though his civil rights agenda i believe was successful. so beware of feel good answers. we have found over decades they aren’t working.
Stogie–you speak out of both sides of your mouth (assuming you are the same Stogie making other comments on this thread). On the one hand you criticize this diary that asks what we are thinking about what the Sounthern Poverty Law Center is doing about neo-Nazi’s infiltrating the military and on the other extol the civil rights movement. Morris Dees (a hero of mine) who founded the SPLC is one of the main players in the civil rights movement.
no i don’t speak out of both sides of my mouth. you simply make that allegation. next!
The Southern Poverty Law Center is nothing more than a ‘gate keeper’ just like the ADL. Any American (Jew or non-Jew) who dares to question Israel and its war mongering behavior in any shape or form is ‘labeled’, if not by the SPLC then the ADL.
The Southern Poverty Law Center is about as Southern as the artic circle and as Poverty as the Catskills.
Extremist political views are one thing. But, come on, Neo-Nazis? Allow me to emphasize: NAZIS??!! Do we really want anyone who associates themselves with a Nazi party to be part of our military? If so, why don’t we just let anyone who has “terrorist” views join as well? The military should have boxes to check off: Nazi? Terrorist? Okay, just checking, thanks. Come on in.
That’s just plain crazy, no matter how passionate you are about The First Amendment. . .
I have studied the National Socialist (aka “neo-Nazi”) movement in America for almost twenty years and have found no organized NS party that advocates violence or lawlessness in any way, shape or form. Acts of voilence by so-called “neo-Nazis” comes from “lone-wolves” operating on their own initiative like Timothy McVeigh or James von Brunn. Neither of these criminals were members of any “Nazi party”.
Secondly, in America more threats and acts of violence are perpitrated against neo-facist groups than by them. Just look at the screaming crowds who oppose neo-Nazi or Klan rallies. The anti-facists are always the ones advocating violence by screaming “death to the nazis”, “death to the klan” and being arrested for trying to cross police barricades or attacking the police themselves.
The SPLC’s whining about a few neo-Nazis on a web forum who only claim to be in the military is hysterical nonsense. Because of the worsening economy the SPLC must be short of funds and are trying to find ways to frieghten donatations out of hysterical numbskulls. This is nothing but McCarthism in reverse.
The right of Free Speech is in greater danger from groups like the SPLC than from any other quarter.
- John
This is sickening. The thought that my brothers and sisters over in Iraq and Afghanistan are dieing and you have the nerve to publish this article. Why don’t you contact the Secretary of the Navy and give him the names of these 40 instead of painting a despicable picture of the whole military. When we are sworn in we repeat the same historical oath that generations have said, “I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America… and obey the orders of those appointed over me.” This is true democratic rhetoric at its best. Thank you very much for bringing disgrace to the Men and Women who protect you every night. Go lie on your plush mattress in an air condition room while we sleep on the ground or a 4 inch 40 year old mattress.