“Swimmers Should Wear ‘Burkinis’”
By Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy on August 17, 2009 at 10:01 PM in Civil Liberties, Current Affairs, Foreign Affairs, Islam, Muslim, Religion, Sharia Law, United Kingdom, Women
Let me say right up front that I have absolutely nothing against Islam or Muslims in general. I certainly do not agree with the more conservative Muslim views on women, though. Not only does this article focus on conservative Muslims, Swimmers Are Told To Wear Burkinis, but the impact they have on non-Muslim women especially, but men, too, in the UK.
You’re not going to believe this:
Under the rules, swimmers – including non-Muslims – are barred from entering the pool in normal swimming attire.Instead they are told that they must comply with the “modest” code of dress required by Islamic custom, with women covered from the neck to the ankles and men, who swim separately, covered from the navel to the knees.
Huh? What kind of coverings? Like this?
That’s from 1864. Yes, that’s right - 145 years ago. That’s what all the women were wearing then.
This is about what they are wearing in 2009:
Uh yeah. Pretty much. Even if they are NOT Muslims, women are supposed to wear this so as not to offend. I’m sorry, how is that again? They are going to allow one religion, not even the NATIONAL religion, mind you, to dominate what women and men (though the latter is FAR less restrictive) can and cannot wear while swimming?? In a PUBLIC pool? Well, that’s simply stunning, isn’t it?
Not everyone is onboard with the whole “burkini” thing, though, as you might have guessed:
The phenomenon runs counter to developments in France, where last week a woman was evicted from a public pool for wearing a burkini – the headscarf, tunic and trouser outfit which allows Muslim women to preserve their modesty in the water.The 35-year-old, named only as Carole, is threatening legal action after she was told by pool officials in Emerainville, east of Paris, that she could not wear the outfit on hygiene grounds.
Not that I think she should have been tossed out of the pool or anything, but she was not trying to force everyone ELSE to wear one, either:
But across the UK municipal pools are holding swimming sessions specifically aimed at Muslims, in some case imposing strict dress codes.Croydon council in south London runs separate one-and-a half-hour swimming sessions for Muslim men and women every Saturday and Sunday at Thornton Heath Leisure Centre.
Swimmers were told last week on the centre’s website that “during special Muslim sessions male costumes must cover the body from the navel to the knee and females must be covered from the neck to the ankles and wrists”.
There are similar rules at Scunthorpe Leisure Centre, in North Lincolnshire, where “users must follow the required dress code for this session (T-shirts and shorts/leggings that cover below the knee)”.
In Glasgow, a men-only swimming session is organised by a local mosque group at North Woodside Leisure Centre, at which swimmers must be covered from navel to knee.
At a women-only class organised by a Muslim teacher at Blackbird Leys Swimming Pool, Oxford, to encourage Muslim women to learn to swim, most participants wear “modest” outfits although normal costumes are permitted.
Hmmm. Well, that’s something at least - that regular dress is allowed at this one place. Though still, to impose their standard of “modest dress” on others is still, well, an imposition, is it not?
Here’s the problem:
The dress codes have provoked an angry reaction among critics who say they encourage division and resentment between Muslims and non-Muslims, putting strain on social cohesion.Ian Cawsey, the Labour MP for the North Lincolnshire constituency of Brigg and Goole, said: “Of course swimming pools have basic codes of dress but it should not go beyond that.
“I don’t think that in a local authority pool I should have to wear a particular type of clothes for the benefit of someone else. That’s not integration or cohesion.”
Good point, isn’t it? But how about a leader who does have a large Muslim populaiton:
Labour MP Anne Cryer, whose Keighley, West Yorkshire constituency has a large number of Muslims, said: “Unfortunately this kind of thing has a negative impact on community relations.“It’s seen as yet another demand for special treatment. I can’t see why special clothing is needed for what is a single-sex session.”
Muslim swimming sessions are also held at a number of state schools around the country. At Loxford School in Ilford, east London, a local Muslim group organises weekly sessions for Muslim men, with the warning that “it is compulsory for the body to be covered between the navel and the knees.
“Anyone not adhering to the dress code or rules within the pool will not be allowed to swim”.
The practice of holding special Muslim swimming sessions has led to non-Muslims being turned away.
Well, that’s a bit of a problem, isn’t it, whent it is a public pool? I can see where people might get testy over not being allowed in if the don’t adhere to the strict dress code of a religion not their own:
David Toube, 39 and his five year old son Harry were last year refused entry to Clissold Leisure Centre, in Hackney, east London, after being told the Sunday morning swimming session was for Muslim men only.Council officials later said staff had made a mistake and both Mr Toube, a corporate lawyer, and his son should have been admitted.
After discovering the rules at Thornton Heath one Croydon resident, 34-year-old Alex Craig, said: “I think it is preposterous that a council should be encouraging this type of segregation over municipal facilities.
“Surely if Muslims want to swim then they should just turn up with their modest swimwear at the same time as everyone else.”
That does not sound too outrageous to me, but I freely admit, I am not in the camp that women should have to hide their entire bodies to be able to go swimming. That’s just me, though.
But it is just that kind of directive that brings this up:
Douglas Murray, director of the Centre for Social Cohesion, last night condemned the practice. He said: “This kind of thing is extremely divisive.“Non-Muslims see these extremist demands as an example of Muslims wanting things to fit into their lifestyle, when there aren’t similar things organised for Hindus, Buddhists or Jews.
“It also puts moderate Muslims in an awkward position as it suggests, wrongly, that they are not devout enough, simply because they choose not to cover themselves in a shroud in a pool.”
A press officer at Croydon council, which introduced Muslim-only swimming in 2006, claimed that the wording on the website was a mistake and the dress code should be regarded as a suggestion rather than a requirement.
The website was late changed to remove the reference to the dress code.
However, an official at the leisure centre said the dress code remained compulsory.
Earlier, defending the segregation policy, a Croydon council spokesman said: “We appreciate that certain religious groups, such as Muslims, have strict rules on segregation for activities including sports, so in response to requests from the local community, we have been running these sessions at Thornton Heath Leisure Centre.”
All in all, it sounds like quite a kerfluffle.
So, what do you think about this requirement? Should non-Muslim women be forced to wear “burkinis” while swimming in public pools? Let’s, um, flesh this out, shall we?
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Hey! Get set Taliban songsters! Here’s the first few lines of your big new beach-music hit!
One-two-three-four,
Tell the people what she wore!
It was a longo-mongo baggy saggy ugly olive drab burquini,
That she wore for the first time today . . .
Well, it might not be a big hit in gay Pah-Ree, but it should bring in mucho afghanis in Kabul . . .
Funny article, Reverend Amy. Thank you!
I don’t understand why all them super religious folks want to get in the pool with non-believers and risk rubbing, well, you know. My, it’s one big wet t-shirt contest, it seems.
Daisy Mae–you are really funny. I hope your posts from Dogpatch continue! And say hello to Stupefying Jones for me–still dream about her–she’d even stupefy in a burquini!
You are BOTH funny - thanks for the laugh - I needed that…
This is beyond stupid. A municipal pool is open to everyone, the public at large. You dress as you dress [within the bounds of deceny. For instance, no bare butts or breasts allowed].
By catering to a particular group on religious or cultural grounds, the Brits are simply seeding resentment within their own indigenous population. And if the Muslims don’t like it?
Take a bath or shower for crying out loud!
The West has taken PC to ridiculous lengths. To their own detriment, I’m afraid.
Well said, Peggy Sue, TX Playwright, and Diana L.C.
I wonder what they wear in baths or showers. Perhaps they have sex through a hole in a blanket?
The most boggling aspect is that these are SAME SEX swimming sessions that require the cover up.
Did anyone (including Amy) bother to read the article carefully?
The telegraph does its best to incite hatred, but reading carefully, you see these gems:
In other words, special clothing are only for these sessions. The rest of the time, rest assured, you can probably go toplesss, and no one will give a sh–t.
The misogynistic, extremist Islam world has invaded Europe and is infiltrating America more and more.
Downright dangerous.
This from the country that serves as the model for Obamacare.
In Britain they have single payer healthcare, which has not been proposed by Obama or the Congressional Democrats.
Thank you.
Obamacare is an insurance policy for the insurance companies, nothing more. Oh, wait, I forgot: it also contains multiple privacy invasions, too.
If I lived in Britain, I’d round up alot of locals and have them wear thongs and mankinis to these pools at all times.
It take alot of balls to immigrate to a country and then force your backwards customs down the host county’s throats.
Britain and Europe better wake up fast about what is happening in their own countries. If they let this keep up, soon they’ll all be wearing burkas and they’ll be living under repressive, barbarian rule.
Take a good look at the number one name for newborns in some of these European country’s capitals.
If they want their rules the the majority of the locals in the government area that funds the pool do not, the majority should win. Those that want differnt rules then need to fund their own private pool–a Muslim country club or sorts. It’s just stupid to impose. The Catholics never imposed meatless Fridays on us in the schools when that was their rule. The Hindus did not demand we all eat according to their rules. The Mormon girls in our schools dressed far more modestly–they too have modesty rules–but they did not try to impose that on the rest (although most of us teachers would have liked to see the skimpy attire of the cheerleaders changed for modesty reasons). The Jehovah’s witnesses did not demand that we stop such practices as giving Christmas gifts in classrooms, though they didn’t believe in the practice. They basically took the option of opting out of any activity that was against their belief.
The people of England need to get some guts and quit caving in. That’s all I can say.
I do like France’s approach much better.
I forgot to mention my impression of the photo. I also saw one in our local paper of a different version. In both these photos of models wearing the burkinis, they struck what could be considered come hiter poses. Shoudn’t they be stoned?
(OF COURSE I’M BEING FACETIOUS!!!)
That is “come hither”
I agree. It’s all in the attitude. Her look is a bit provocative and saucy. I think wearing burqua’s are the cause.
“The Catholics never imposed meatless Fridays on us in the schools when that was their rule”
True, but in the UK Catholics have their very own, paid-for-by-the-state, schools so there was no need to inflict meatless Fridays on everyone ese. This was where all this began and it’s why it’s difficult to refuse to accommodate the religious demands of other groups now.
Yea France is looking as a good place to remove myself to. The uSA is getting to be a mighty scary place.
Viva La France!
Half of the problem is contained in your first paragraph where you find it necessary to state that you have nothing against Islam or Muslims. It’s this PC on steroids world that is the real problem. The whole I can’t criticize something for what it is without a disclaimer noting that criticism doesn’t apply to those that practice it, only the practice is the heart of the issue. What are they going to do, take offense? Aren’t you an infidel already?
I’ll say straight up that I believe that any religion that subjugates women is evil. I don’t care what holy label they place upon it. And any country that tells me I have to cover up for fear of offending someone else’s religion can go bugger off.
I totally agree with you
Here’s the thing - I’m not being PC. Islam by its very nature is NOT into the subjugation of women, if you actually read the Quran. Muhammad had only daughters, upon whom he doted. And he said very clearly that he did NOT want his words written down because once they are in writing, people misinterpret them. HE didn’t call for this kind of thing, the same way JESUS didn’t call for women to be subjugated under men, and you better BELIEVE that women have been subjugated under Christianity - still are in many, many denominations and faith circles. It is how some of their followers have interpreted the theology, and overlaid their beliefs on them that is the problem, like the whole issue of jihad.
Moderate Muslims are not like this. Moderate Christians are not like this. Moderate Jews aren’t like this. You would have to be condemning a whole lot of religions otherwise, IHTF, including those three, if you only look at the far right wing of those mentioned. And maybe you do condemn all three - I’m just saying that all three share a lot of similarities in how women are treated in the most conservative veins.
Thanks for clarifying this. It is not as easy as simply writing off the entire religion, is it?
In Turkey they are moderate Muslims. They have topless beaches all over the vacation areas. There are often pictures of groups of sunbathers in the local newspapers (accompanying stories of how the tourism industry is doing–a critical economic factor). No one gives a hoot about it. They figure that’s the whole point of going to a beach–to get sun exposure!
I did not write off any particular religion. I made a point that I stand by. My message to all religions is simply this: If the shoe fits wear it. Otherwise let’s see your naked feet.
The Christian religion is based upon the Jewish religion which begins by stating that women are the cause of all evil in the world because of Eve’s temptation. Now whether moderate members of these religions hold those tenets to be true or not is not the point. The basis for their religions does.
And BTW… I was not condemning Islam in my initial comment. I was pointing out that political correctness is a barrier to common sense. And not implying that you don’t have any. Only that people should be willing to state something is wrong merely because it is and not be all touchy-feely about what someone’s reaction might be by clarifying the point so that they have no reason to feel offense. A true radical Muslim would take offense at anything an infidel said.
Wrong.
The Christian religion is based on the New Testament, which in many ways deviated from accepted rabbinical practices.
Christ was hassled during his lifetime by the establishment Jewish hierarchy for ignoring their many rituals and other visible manifestations of their faith. He was considered a radical partly because of his association with undesirables - including most women.
Where in the New Testament does Christ state that “women are the cause of all evil in the world”?
Wrong in so many ways.
I posted a lengthier reply, but it’s caught in the filter.
Many Muslims moved to America to get away from this type of behavior.
Islam by its very nature is NOT into the subjugation of women
No Rev, just subjugation of all individuals . Period. Unless and Until I see the muslim “way of life” reveal itself in actively rooting out the GROWING and DANGEROUS trend towards extremism, then I would reconsider.
Islam is a way of life and FORCES itself on others. Or are you going to tell me that bibles are legal in the Saudi Arabia and elsewhere one can be executed for expressing a belief in Christ? Seriously, People are free to where what ever they choose, and not have it decided for them, in this country and until recently the UK.
I really would like to be “tolerant” of others and their beliefs and I am not saying the followers of other belief systems are not without negatives and forms of repression. Yet, Islam of today is in a sad state of corruption and suffers for it, while blaming the west for its problems.
I say this realizing you have spent many a year in the field of religious studies and I do respect your views very much. Respectfully, the Islamic way of life is is not headed in a positive direction from a kites point of view.
Again I am not insulting people of Islam on a human level, just the crap many fill their heads with to rationalize there existence.
70 virgins?
I’m in the camp that this is a health hazard. I live in the south, recently we had several families show up at our small neighborhood pool and the ladies were in full burka gear. Now realize the temp was high in the 90’s and humidity @ 100%. These poor woman were drenched with sweat arriving at the pool & it was understandable they wanted to jump in for a cooling swim. But as I watched the group jump in the pool, with their many layers of clothing on, I have to admit….. it turned my stomach. That ended it for me, it was time to leave.
Oh, wow - I can totally appreciate that (also living in the South). Wow…
Candymarl, you are funny!
hasn’t anyone considered the danger of having all that wet HEAVY fabric stuck to your body while you’re bathing?
Forget the religious aspect, it’s a drowning hazard.
How does one learn to swim hindered by all that wet yardage?
Well, I see so many folks putting down the burkini in this thread. I like to see a fair and balanced discussion, so I will mention one of the positive features of the burkini: no need for burkini wax!
To think of it, it is somewhat like washing your laundry in a public pool. The other thing is the laundry soap residue and fibers from the cloth entering the water and the filters of the pool. Swimming gear is usually made of material that doesn’t have fuzzballs on it. If they want to swim in their clothes, they should go to a lake. I can see it now… water skiing in a burka… riding a jet ski in a burka etc.
Why just the other day I thought about going swimming. Then I couldn’t find my Burkini. So I stayed home. Huh.
What many people don’t know is this the British royaly are decendents of Muhammed ben ‘Abd Allah Banu Hashim, Muhammad the Prophet through Eleanor of Castile who married King Edward I Plantagenet.
As far as the current queen being related that I do not know. That family name is Hapsburg, but they changed it to Windsor after Hitler came to power, so as not to seem Germanic.
Radical Islam is creeping all over Europe and here in the uSA. I do have a problem when one religion is allowed to dominate.
if you read the article, you’ll note that these restrictions are limited to 90 minute sessions.
I think people who are offended by bikinis and speedos should be banned from swimming pools. Yeah, that works better.
OMG funny.
that reminds me of the time that a friend of mine asked me to say something to the Belgian exchange student she was hosting. Evidently his teeny little suit wasn’t enough fabric to contain his family jewels. And his appearance at the local swim club was scandalizing the populace. I just laughed it off, I told her if she’d ever spent any time on European beaches he’d be considered overdressed.
She was adamant that I say something to him - don’t know why she picked me for the job - and I said come on what’s the problem maybe he’s proud of his - ahem - endowment.
This went on for months. Finally just to shut her up I said something to the kid. I told him that American guys don’t wear speedos, it makes people think you’re gay. His reply? Who give an eff.
And he continued to show his stuff. Till he went home to Belgium. LOL
ROLF!! And how funny of her to pick you to say something!
We have an American friend who was refused entry to a water park in Europe (Netherlands or France–I forgot) because he had trunks. They made him buy speedos for him and his son at the gift shop. His son (under 10) was mortified to wear it!
My reply got eaten. It was probably the word “s p e e d o” LOL!
No one will deny you the right to be naked in public.
Let’s face it. Today’s bathing suits are extreme. You don’t have to be a fundamentalist to think that they are gross.
Women are going anorexic and performing bizarre rituals of waxing and exercise so they can look “good” in these things. (My daughter calls some of them “butt floss.”)
A little modesty and commonsense in the West might restore some balance.
We went on vacation recently and had a couple of Muslim girls fully clothed and in the pool. As a woman I can tell you, it felt very disturbing and oppressive. I didn’t feel all liberal and embracing of diversity, I felt like I was trapped in Margaret Atwood’s Handmaid’s Tale.
OT but my posts are not posting anyhow.
http://www.myspace.com/barackobama
obama official myspace page lists him as 52
This would mean he was born in 1957 before Hawaii became a state. See World Net Daily article
I think there’s a substantial difference between being “fully clothed” and wearing one of the swimming outfits that is illustrated. While it’s not standard western swimming gear, it’s not offensive and who cares?
Wearing clothes to swim in is ridiculous. My parents made me wear clothes when I swam. I could also not wear pants. ugghh and they were Christians. Much bad is done in the name of religion, which is why I worship God and my Lord Jesus in my own private way. I also swim as I choose and wear pants.
Europe and other countries are giving in to Islam. Not just Islam but radical Islam. I say enough and way past too much.
Obama’s State Department Submits to Islam
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/obamas_state_department_submit.html
It’s so easy to forget/skip/ignore this little phrase, isn’t it?
“or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”
Did you read the article? Radical Islam is forcing itself on the rest of the world. If the quotes below coupled with the above article (at the link)do not worry you then you must agree with their thoughts? Obama after 9/11 said “should an ill wind blow, I will stand with the Muslims”
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/columnists/rdreher/stories/DN-dreher_09edi.ART.State.Edition1.4235f88.html
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/
The woman in the blue “swim suit” 2009 may well be covered up but the pose she strikes completely undercuts the austere nature of the Muslim fundamentalist dress code.
I get “Hey, even though I was whipped because at first when I did not want to wear this outfit, it covers all the scars and I can still look sexy.”
This Muslim “dress code” shows how just shallow and insecure the Muslim religion is. Any religion that has death as a penalty for “leaving the faith” or the murder of non believers, or the enslavement of women or the execution of a rape victim for the perps crime is a sick twisted dangerous farce. If you deem your self a “true believer” of Islam then explain your silence on this and so many other insults to Allah.
ISLAM is a way of life? Bullshit. Why are the majority of conflicts on the planet borne of the Islamic faith and bring nothing but death and misery? Why is it that the Koran says one thing and man twists it for personal gain while in the same breath declaring himself more virtuous than Mohammed himself?
70 Virgins? Sick.
I
HaHa! Right, Teak. Also, “Hey, check out this cute little foot!” The burkini is formidable, but it’s no real impediment to my lecherous imagination . . .
oowawa,
If the reason is not to promote the male “lecherous imagination”, I am at a loss to explain why Islam is unaccountable for the violence against women.
On the whole Islam is a weak ass male ego religion. I am not excluding other religions from ridicule, just that Muslim men deny their maker who bore them.
And spare me the ” oh but Islam is a peaceful religion” crap. It isn’t.
oowawa, the spare me comment was not directed at you just in general.
You are so very very right. I’m glad someone has taken the crap out of their eyes (the media slings it so fast and so much of it) and is concerned about our survival. We’re certainly not perfect in the West…but we are so superior to this so-call religion; a religion based on a murdering, pedophile, slave owning prophet.
What a joke..and how damn ignorant its followers are to fall for it. At least Buddha and Christ didn’t go around screwing babies and murdering thousands…regardless of the hypocrisy that came after death.
Isn’t it dangerous to swim fully clothed?
I mean the military trains in bootcamp that you dogpaddle or float but that’s about it.
Not sure what the point is with this, but have Muslims thought of having their own backyard pool(s) for this sort of preference?
Brits have totally lost it. They’d do anything to appease the muslims at the expense of others. There are reasons for that, though. The first is fear, since muslims will start a riot if their demands are not met. So it’s a lot easier to punish people who stay quiet and peaceful. The second is money. The loudest advocates of sharia law have been receiving millions from Saudi-Arabia at best. The country’s been paid and bought for a long time ago.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25361297-7583,00.html?ref=1.3
This brings up a whole other issue really. At the crux of this to me is the whole notion that somehow these cultures because they predate us by millenia somehow are grandfathered into the larger world culture. That somehow we need to apologize for our crassness of doing for ourselves in a couple of centuries what they can’t or won’t do for themselves in millennia. To me this is the pile of horse hockey in the middle of the floor. We need to look past each other and get past red vs. blue type arguments. At least we aren’t still nomadic tribesmen and we don’t treat women as property. If we do one thing, let’s be thankful for what we do have… and for goodness sakes quit the overseas apology fest. It is getting real old really fast.
It incredible how many illiberal I have spoken to who believe like fools that Muslims are the oldest religion. When I tell them that in fact they are the youngest religion by far–620AD or so–they look at me like I’m crazy. I tell them to look it up but I know that they have a great aversion to fact so I don’t really expect anything from them. Its incredible the level of stupidity out there….and guess how most of them vote?
They don’t predate us (western culture) in the least!!! “They” I am talking about are the founders of the Islam faith or arab tribes running around like the backward monkeys that they still are today in Saudia Arabia/vacinity (not to be confused with the mesopotamian). They at the time (620AD) had no civilization there since Sheba a thousand years earlier and still don’t in my opinion…and they spread their uselessness to what is now an enormous area). Once Islam became established in the area, several ARAB leaders led them to greater things but were only possible because of the christian, greek, jewish, persian scholars they surrounded themselves with to educate themselve and give them legitimacy. For a good while the Muslims played the game of “civilization” and progressed to taking over much more ancient civilizations like the persians by force (and made slaves out of most while the original Bedoin arabs did absolutely nothing)…giving Islam the illusion of being Ancient.
Let me say right up front that I have absolutely EVERYTHING against Muslims (I used to not-until I lived in Marseille for 7 years and then they blew up the world trade center…I have seen things to make some of you women want to take up arms against these “average” “moderate” muslims).
Let me make is simple…Islam is the only religion on the planet to be founded by a bloodthirsty murderer and pedophile and slave owner. That should say it all right there. Read your history if you doubt me. No other prophet has taken part in any such filth.
I wish all of you would stop being so damn PC and start thinking of your and your children’s survival and well being. Haven’t you been complecent long enough what it gonna take…you in a Burka? Spare your outrage please since it sure isn’t gotta “convert” me to your PC insanity. JUST WAKE UP…they are coming for us.