ted’s favorite jokes were about chappaquiddick
By American Girl in Italy on August 28, 2009 at 8:01 PM in Bobby Kennedy, John F. Kennedy, Obama, Sara in Italy
I wasn’t alive when America witnessed the assassination of John F Kennedy, and was a mere toddler when Bobby Kennedy was killed. I was just three when Chappaquiddick happened. I grew up in the generation of John John, and sadly we experienced our own Kennedy tragedy. The entire Kennedy clan seems to be touched by illness, tragedy and scandal in one form or another.
Has any family in recent history ever been so revered and loved but so mired in scandal?
JFK is often thought of as one of America’s most beloved President, but was famously known for his womanizing, and affairs. Who can forget when his affair was famously rubbed in the face of his wife and country when Marilyn Monroe appeared at his birthday celebration. My mom remembers thinking how tacky it was, and how bad she felt for Jackie. It was also reported that Marilyn was having an affair with Bobby, too.
But, of all the Kennedy scandals and tragedies, none is more tragic as the accident and events surrounding the death of Mary Jo Kopechne.
With the passing of Ted Kennedy we have an end of an era. It was somewhat difficult, looking at an aged, grey haired Ted, a man who spent his last months of his life suffering from a brain tumor, a public servant in the Senate for 46 years, a man who witnessed the assassination of his two brothers, and not feel something for the loss of the last brother in a famous family dynasty.
An image far removed from that of the young, vibrant handsome man, who supported his brothers.
An image even further removed from the lying, cheating, drunken one of a man who left a woman to die.
But, that’s exactly what he did.
Does a lifetime of reform and public service make up for what he did July 18, 1969? From all of the media attention covering his passing, it seems many believe it does. Obviously the majority in Massachusetts forgave him, where he served 46 years. Many people believe in repentance, forgiveness, and making amends.
But, did Ted Kennedy ever make amends? If you watch his statement and apology he made in 1969, he doesn’t appear to make amends. He makes excuses, and he lies.
It was a little difficult, with the public image of Ted Kennedy, and the adoration many feel for him, and his years of service he has devoted to his country, and not feel a bit of the nostalgia for all things Kennedy, the Kennedy’s I grew up learning about, and those that I watched. Even as angry as I was for his endorsement of Obama, and the disgust I felt hearing Chris Matthews call Obama the *last brother* of the Kennedy clan, I still remember this image of Ted:
And those of his brothers:
I wondered what it must do to someone - to see their brothers gunned down in cold blood.
Perhaps that is, in large part, why the people of Massachusetts forgave Ted Kennedy for Chappaquiddick. Did they feel that the Kennedy’s had given so much of themselves, that they could overlook the terrible, cowardly actions of the only living Kennedy brother?
But what about the rest of the country? Those not close to the Kennedy Dynasty - how did Ted avoid political suicide that fateful night, in July 1969? No doubt the headlines Man Walks on the Moon saved Kennedy big time. (I have a Seattle Times from the July 20, 1969 landing and throughout the entire newspaper the stories are about the moon landing, but one. One tiny little article at the bottom of the page talks about Kennedy’s accident.)
Despite of everything, the good and the bad, I wanted to believe that the last Kennedy brother, this 77 year old man, had tried to make amends. That he tried to live a life serving his country, making amends for what he did 40 years ago. I wanted to believe that he felt remorse, and went to bed every night thinking about what he did to Mary Jo. I wanted to believe that he struggled early on with the loss of his brothers, and struggled with alcoholism, and that he tried to overcome.
I didn’t want to speak ill of him the day he died. It’s hard to think of Ted Kennedy without thinking of his brothers, and young John Jr. I wanted to believe in the dream of Camelot. (I used to be a Democrat, afterall…)
But then I saw this:
“I don’t know if you know this or not, but one of his favorite topics of humor was indeed Chappaquiddick itself. And he would ask people, “have you heard any new jokes about Chappaquiddick?” That is just the most amazing thing. It’s not that he didn’t feel remorse about the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, but that he still always saw the other side of everything and the ridiculous side of things, too.”
You can hear the entire interview here, at the 30:10 mark.
Ted Kennedy was a drunk who drove his car into a pond, with a young woman who was not his wife, and left her to die. He waited 10 hours before getting help. He paid her family hush money, he lied in his public statement, and he lied to the police. I wanted to believe he felt remorse and changed. Ted Kennedy died as despicably and as cowardly as he was on July 18, 1969.
Ted’s favorite jokes were about Chappaquiddick. And no, Melissa, I don’t think Mary Jo would think it was “worth it”.
If I were Obama, I would give that torch back.
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Liberal at Huffpo thinks Mary Jo Kopechne didn’t mind dying for Ted
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/08/liberal_at_huffpo_thinks_mary.html
Do these people have Mad Cow disease? Maybe they need to be put in quarantine?
Ok that’s over the top. I am, ahem, old enough to remember JFK, RFK, and Chappaquidick. A comment like that well.. I’ll hold my tongue.
However, several years later I did watch a documentary about Mary Jo and Chappaquidick. There was an interview with an investigative reporter (back when we still had those) who was no fan of the Kennedys. He’d written many articles critical of the whole clan.
He has a completely different take on the whole thing from the digging he did. It was interesting to say the least. But he did ask the same question. Why did Ted Kennedy lie?
Why did Ted lie about the accident? He faced jail time, not just the threat of losing his political facetime.
I am old enough to recall history for many decades. Putting the Kennedy saga into perspective (as an admirer of JFK, RFK, Jackie), it has been my belief that most, if not all these tragedies and gaffs, were not happenstance nor attributable to “bad karma” or a curse on the clan. Think they have the fingerprints of political machinations.
Ted was certainly heir apparent to a dynasty that
many resented. The reasons run along the usual lines of class, ethnic, religious divisions. He
had a near-fatal plane crash; then there was
Chappaquiddic; then his son was diagnosed with
cancer, lost a leg. That pretty well took him
out of the running–most thought forever.
No wonder he turned to alcohol. That addiction is
slow suicide. When you live your life in a fishbowl surrounded by hungry sharks, you will
instinctively withdraw from reality.
As far as the public kudos and high press surrounding his life and death–par for the course. The media loves a good story and tend to
reduce events into an essence easily absorbed by
a public whose attention span holds for three- minute news blurbs or glitzy six-minute graphic-stimulated exposes, between eight minutes of drug
commercials.
Don’t remember how Ron Reagan was eulogized for
days? What was his legacy? Go back and read the
history of the 80s. Not so great a decade. Not
so great a bio of “The Gipper” unless you are
conditioned to enjoy Peggy Noonan’s excessive
idolatry. Or become an apologist for greed as
a religious tenet.
I am not supporting Ted Kennedy; he lost all credibility when he endorsed Obama. But, on the other hand, we do need to take a long look at our society in general and how it impacts politics as well as how politics impact our society.
Nothing evolves in a vacuum.
Thank you for this thoughtful post.
We need to take a long look at the media which has found its cheaper to lionize a celebrity then to cover real news. 50 years in the Senate and Healthcare was his life’s work? Then what did Senator Kennedy accomplish in those 50 years?
Now we are to forget what this Hell Care means for us and support it because Teddy Kennedy died. Did a Death Panel tell him it was time to hang it up–NO. But this bill which will bear his name will tell the rest of us when its time to die.
There are no death panels in any bill. No one is recommending any death panels. No one is advocating death panels. Death panels are a lie. If you believe there are death panels as part of any bills, do some research and educate yourself.
proud mobster
As a proud Canadian, trust me, there aren’t any “death panels” in Obama’s watered-down harmless-to-insurance-profits healthInsurance plan!
We spend one-third of what Americans spend in Healthcare and we have a great universalized single=payer system. Read about Diane Tucker, 59-year old lawyer now living in B.C. to avoid bankruptcy in U.S. due to inability to pay….medical bills! Incredible that you use Death Panels as an excuse to deny coverage to 50 million and growing due to depression…shameful America is #37, one below Costa rica on the worlds ranking of health!! Eh?
For fear of sounding like Barbara Boxer, I would really appreciate if you would read the post first, before you fill the top comment spot with links to information that is already referenced in the post.
I put a lot of time into the posts, and it is a bit frustrating when people link other articles, when they haven’t read the post, and don’t comment on the post at hand.
I appreciate when you leave thoughtful comments, and you spend a lot of time here. This isn’t just directed at you, it happens often, and it is frustrating.
I did read it. It’s just that I lived it and remember.
My comment wasn’t for you Candymarl, it is nested under Tzada.
:O)
Hey Girly, keep up the good work. I saw a very interesting piece on tv once (that may be the one referenced by canymarl above) in which the reporter leads to believe that what happened at Chappaquidick was that Ted was driving drunk after watching the moon landing with the gang. He became aware of a police car nearby, and so told Mary Jo Kopechne to drive while he walked so he could sober up some. She drove on (probably drunk too) in that big car and went off the bridge alone. Fat Ted finally made it to the bridge and dove in to attempt rescue. When he couldn’t he called his trusted people and said “Now what the hell do I do?” It took them a few hours to decide there was no way to save his 1972 Presidential run, and faced the police. I don’t think they were all that worried about any crime as they were politics.
they didn’t land on the moon for two more days.
Thanks for the correction. I got that wrong.
they were probably either trying to spin it for Kennedy, or they meant the rocket launch.
Sara in Italy:
We can read. We just realize that Ted Kennedy left a woman to die, and joked about it.
Do YOU read?
What the hell are you talking about? That is what this whole post is about. My comment is directed to Tzada, who linked to a story that is already referenced in my post. You obviously CAN’T read.
I suggest you can your nasty attitude.
Just once make an effort to not be so over the top to other bloggers here, you never take a gentle step first, you just come out rude. Stop it.
No I think it was directed at me. This is the 2nd offense for me as pointed out by this AGI. I did read the article, I only noted the one link, which I had already read yesterday. Somehow I missed the second link, my bad.
You have made two of us feel badly. It has had the chilling effect on me. Thanks for your time and effort in producing a well gathered together article.
I didn’t mean to make you feel bad. It just gets frustrating. And thank you for your compliment.
AGiI,
I understand your frustration. I just want to say that if something like what happened with tzada’s link right after your mentioning the same point in your article occurs, I just over look it.
To me it’s like my times teaching in a public school classroom when a kid raises his hand, is called on, and then just asks a question that I had already already answered. The rest of the class just usually says, “DUH!” And then we move on. It does show that tzada was quite interested, but it is easy to miss some details if one is reading fast and is excited about something else that he/she has just read on the same subject.
As for Tammy—she has been chatised before for her rudeness. I have taken to ignore most of her comments.
I feel so bitchy! I love that people want to engage, and provide info and feedback, but when people link to stories that I reference, I feel like no one bothered to read the darn thing. (It happens a lot, and didn’t want to make Tzada feel bad.)
Thanks for your input!
sarainitaly God bless you for the work you do in here. It was a great post.
you are too kind. thank you! :O)
Love it! Yes, it must be mad cow or some other form of insanity, lack of any morality, pathological misogyny.
kennedy was a killer. plain and simple. mary jo was alive when he left her to die….rot in hell kennedy.
Mary Jo Kopechne was unavailable for comment.
He was thrown out of Harvard for cheating.
He left a woman to die in a car while he slept, conferred with aides, tried to get someone else to take the fall and then lied to police.
He spent the next 25 years drinking and grabbing waitresses.
He tried to cover up for his nephew during the rape investigation.
He requested that the law be changed to make sure a Rep. Gov, didn’t appoint an Rep to Kerry’s seat if he won in 04 and then he requested the law be changed back so that a Dem Gov could make an appointment ASAP to his seat because it was so important for the citizens of Massachusetts to be represented in the Senate even though he hadn’t actually voted 97% of the time in 2009. If the citizens of Mass. where his concern, he would have resigned his seat. Teddy Kennedy never thought about anybody but himself.
That’s his legacy as far as I’m concerned.
Teddy Kennedy never thought about anybody but himself.
That’s his legacy as far as I’m concerned.
I guess he passed the torch along to the right person then–baby brother Barack.
Yesterday morning Chris Matthews said Obama was the last of the Kennedy brothers. Yesterday afternoon Rush Limbaugh said Chris Matthews was the last of the Marx brothers.
LOL! And, how true!
I’m not a fan of Rush, but I must admit JJ: that’s a good one!
Peggy Sue:
Ditto!
I was working three stories high on a scaffold and could hear a radio through an open window. Rush was talking about Barny Frank asking that Woman “What planet do you spend most of you time on?”
Rush quipped:
“Barney spends most of his time on Uranus!”
Barney left himself open for that.
Funny is Funny!
That is a nasty thing to say about Harpo, Chico, Zeppo, Gummo, and … Groucho.
JJ that was terrific.
Good point anon.
Good article AGI.
Yes, the definition of narcissist.
Amen, Dawn. My sentiments exactly. The coverage today made me sick to my stomach. Although I only watch Fox news anymore, they also went overboard.
In my estimation he should have spent the last 46 years in jail, not in the senate. But then this is the type of politician the people of Massachusetts seem to idolize. More’s the pity.
I think Fox feels compelled in order to “balance” it’s coverage.
Thanks for the summation, AGII. I have always had a rather jaundiced view of Ted as an opportunist. Perhaps That One, being the consummate opportunist as well, SHOULD have the torch passed to him, especially since he will more than likely do far more damage to this country than Teddy ever could. That One is going to do what he wants and leave us with the mess to clean up.
That is wild about the joking I had no idea, was that a recent thing? I wonder. Horribly insensitive.
OOps Sara in Italy the comment that I found over the top was not your post but the comment at Huffpo. Sorry.
At least a whole generation is learning all about Chappaquiddick. Most believe she drowned when in actual fact she asphyixiated when the pocket of air she had, ran out. They figure she lasted about 25 minutes. Great going, Mr Morals.
So in honor of Mr “me first” we will now call HR3200…..Chappaquiddick-care
Thanks, American Girl. I have been thinking about this a lot the past couple of days. I, too, am too young to be part of the Kennedy Camelot generation and I am having a hard time understanding people that are so forgiving of the unspeakable crime that Ted Kennedy committed in 1969 (and the people who reelected him time and again, too).
My first day back at school was yesterday and as it turns out, my Mass Comm professors was part of the Kennedy clean-up crew over the decades. During class, he passed a picture around class of himself and Ted Kennedy - and spoke glowingly of Kennedy’s life, never mentioning his “indiscretions” (the chosen media word for manslaughter, lying, extreme alcoholism, and rape when the Kennedy clan is involved). I was disgusted.
My hope is that we are more sophisticated now and less accepting of criminal politicians; less enamored of dynasties. I truly do not think that, all things being even, this man could have gotten off so easy today. He left a woman to die. She did not drown. She died of asphyxiation. She was alive when he swam away from that car. She was alive, it was reported, for close to two hours!
Let’s face it. Ted Kennedy was a lucky SOB who rode on the coattails of his family name. And I know the PC thing would be to add a tag line about his various accomplishments… I guess I am just not that PC any more.
It is amazing that his career recovered from that… Ten hours to report a crime! I definitely think his brothers deaths and the moon landing saved him. How they now can all stand there and gush all over him is pretty remarkable. I thought maybe he had *changed* but finding out he joked about it just disgusts me.
I’m afraid we have learned nothing since Kennedy. Look at who’s President now.
A man is dead and even now facing his Maker. He can’t defend himself anymore. Certainly he was no saint. His flaws, whatever and however many they are will be relevant only if there are those living today who would want to paint a saintly picture of him to advance their own agenda. And I’m sure we will be waiting for those still living.
Lying and denial are a part of every dysfunctional family and the Kennedys were one of the most dysfunctional clans in American history. As Americans we need to stop with the myth making and the magical thinking and the clebrity and hero worship. Haven’t we had enough? Isn’t that why we have the most inexperienced fraudulent president in history sitting in the WH?
The Kennedys spent as much time in bars, courtrooms, bedrooms, etc as they did on the Hill. Ted’s behavior was a disgrace after Rober Kennedy died when he was supposed to be the father figure for all of those children–a total disgrace. God doesn’t ask us how much money we made or how much fame we acquired when we die–he or she asks us how we acted toward ourselves and others. Kennedy’s 47 years in the Senate means nothing to the creator.
AGI, this is a very well balanced piece. So, brava for that.
No, the Kennedy’s were no saints, none of them. They carried a certain mystique, a dream-like narrative that the public helped perpetuate. Particularly for a family like mine–Irish Catholic as the day is long. People think I’m kidding but my grandmother really did have a picture of The Pope, the Bleeding Heart of Jesus and JFK hanging in her dining room wall. For her and my family the Kennedy’s were bigger than life. But they were also one of us and they’d made it to the WH and halls of power. And that was something to celebrate.
In retrospect and as a grown woman, I have a more jaundiced eye. But clearly, and era has ended, a generation of one single family that left an incredible footprint on the American consciousness.
Chappaquiddick? That was an indelible stain in Ted Kennedy’s life. Did he do some good? Unquestionably. But he also left a young woman to drown and made excuses.
It’s up to God to judge in the final hour. But then, I’m sure if I had been Mary Jo Kopechne’s mother, I would have never forgiven him.
I think it’s time to say goodbye to the Kennedy mystique, which was always more dream than anything else. On the other hand, I still say: let the man rest in peace. What his Maker may say one way or the other? That’s up to Him. [or Her ;0)]
It’s really interesting how the media is now doing that with the Obama family. Creating this mythical dream of a family and story, etc. Trying to push them as the continuation of the Camelot, and trying to create this image of them that is false.
I think that the Obama’s made a conscious decision to play up to the Kennedy mystique when Obama was running for senator. For example, I remember when Obama became a senator that pictures of the girls showed them wearing coats that were similar to the one that JFK,Jr. wore at his fathers funeral.
As for Teddy, I believe that he initially did not have sense of trying to help others the way that his brothers did, but developed it over time. I think when you grow up in the family in which your father has affairs, in which competition (not cooperation) between siblings is encouraged and you are expected to do what your family wants that you may have problems later in life as he did.
Regarding the competitiveness between the brothers, I remember reading that Joseph Jr. and John were riding bycycles straight at each other and when neither one turned away to avoid an accident, John (the future president) needed 28 stitches. (Source: the People’s Almanac I).
There’s no doubt in my mind, AGI, that the intermingling of the Kennedy mystique and Obama-dreaming was intentional. Just the word “Camelot” was suppose to bring the good times back for Dems in particular and Americans in general, lure us into the trance all over again.
And that’s the problem: it was always a trance that so many fell into willingly. Only this time it seems rather short-lived. I’m listening to Obama deliver a eulogy right now.
The magic is gone. His words are ringing flat and hollow.
This, to me, is the real crux of the matter, both with the Kennedy clan, and now with Thee One. The Tingler is Witch Doctor-in-Chief
mundus vult decipi, the world wants to be deceived,
and somehow the MSM has taken on the shamanic function of myth maker for the awestruck tribe.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur, “The world wants to be deceived, so let it be deceived.”
Almighty Spam Filter did smite my reply to this comment, American Girl. Please help. Thanks.
I think we are much more sophisticated then we were in the 60’s when government service was a laudable career. Its hard to create a beautiful myth when so many people are out of work and the country is 9 trillion in debt.
When JFK was elected we were told that the torch had been passed to a new generation. Now we’re just trying to hang on to vestiges of the American Dream as the America we know appears to be dying all around us.
I was in my 20’s when this happened. The media tried to cast Mary Jo as a party girl, when in fact, she wss a volunteer. I never believed ted kennedy’s appeal to the people of Mass., he was concerned and worried about his career. So now today, we are supposed to think of him as a great man because of his many years of service. NO!!! He was a monster!!
I was curious as to how she was treated. I was also wondering what she was doing with a married man - whether she was truly just getting a ride home, or if she was fooling around with him. Either way, she didn’t deserve to be left to die, but I did wonder if she was planning on fooling around with Ted. I assumed they were messing around, which is why in part Ted freaked - he was up to no good.
I guess I’m stating the obvious here, American Girl. Quite apart from the “messing around,” which would have been an embarrassment, was the issue of Kennedy’s blood-alcohol level when the car went into the drink. If he would have immediately contacted the authorities, he would have probably been checked. He needed time to sober up–PERHAPS!
oh, no doubt about that. I assumed once he told his people, they advised him on that.
I thought that about Cheney too, when he shot his friend in the face.
Good point, American Girl–I never thought about that possibility in connection with Cheney’s accident.
One think I loved about JFK Jr. He never made excuses for his family’s bad behavior. They dragged him to his cousin’s rape trial. I was watching. The look he gave his cousin. He looked disgusted. You never heard of him abusing people or throwing his weight around. Folks in NY city loved him.
He may have been, like Kathleen, one of the best of the bunch. Teddy not so much.
I remember that! I think he was truly disgusted. And he was so handsome. His wife was so pretty, too.
I have always thought that JFK Jr. and Carolyn were lucky that Jackie was their mother and she survived Dallas to raise them and protect them against the Kennedy dysfunction.
I know that Jackie did some strange things in regard to her marriage to Onassis, but I also remember reading a long piece about how her primary goal in life was molding the character of her children to one that was right and moral.
I was saddened when Carolyn tried to please Uncle Ted with that strange run to become a Senator.
Thanks AGII for the informative piece. My daughter was asking me questions today and I was trying to remember the details and could not. What I do remember is thinking for the last 47 years how does he keep getting re-elected? What kind of people would want a representative that walked away and left a young woman in the car to die? I get forgiveness, but each election must have been a slap in the face to Mary Jo’s family. How sad.
Who the heck knows….
Truthfully this doesn’t just end the “camalot illusion” this also end the illusion of the people on the extreme left. These people are sick. Even if my close friend who was borderline sociopath made jokes about killing a young girl he was possibly screwing and then allowed to die after being in a submerged care for hours I wouldn’t have gone on tv to wax elloquent about it nor would I think the young wman that he killed would have been pleased to die to help him out. THese people are mentally ill and at the very least have some type of personality disorder. FUrther more they run our country and control our news media. HEll someone let Susan Smith out of jail no reason she should have to rot in jail for doing the same thing Teddy and friends joked about. I”m sure her kids would have been happy to die so she could have married her rich boyfriend who didn’t wanat kids.
Whoa, when I first read this I thought you said they let Susan Smith out! I get what you are saying now.
You made an excellent comparison, and pointed out how stupid that writer was asking if Mary Jo would figure it was worth it!
I would be a little cautious to take Ed Klein as a source for anything other than sensationalism. Isn’t he the same author who wrote “The Truth about Hillary” which includes marital rape, lesbianism, etc.
Reminds me of French author, Thierry Meysaan, and his best selling book on how the Pentagon was not hit by a plane on 9/11. I can imagine 40 years from now dozens of books and documentaries (more than there already are) on how 9/11 was staged. Unbelievable how easy it is to stray from truth…. and people will follow.
Great post AGiI. Amazing that Melissa whoever she is was allowed to post that disgusting drivel on Huffy Poop. Then again, maybe not. I am just glad that some have not forgotten what happened and are not afraid to point it out in the shadow of the overwhelming Kennedy worship and idolatry. He was in deed a coward. Nothing he did in the Senate will change that indisputable fact.
I just don’t think Ted Kennedy made amends if one could ever make amends enough to make up for murder. He used the sympathy of the American people to get out of it and if he had remorse, I think he would have wanted to be punished for what he’d done. I also think he would have spent his life speaking to people about what he’d done. I also think if he’d truly had a good heart, he’d have had no need to treat the Clinton’s the way he did and get behind a Chicago thug. Sorry. I don’t think he had remorse. I think he just enjoyed all of his money and the family name! The hell with who got hurt so he could maintain his image.
A tough crowd.
Obviously, not many liberals or democrats here.
If you are going to judge this man and his very long legacy of public life based on Chappaquiddick I think that is a little unfair.
You do not know the details and what really happened at Chappaquiddick. You just know what you think you know.
A bit harsh and a bit of a narrow view. Par for the course I guess.
Only Democrats in Exile or the Democratic Resistance and a mixture of Independents and various others. Don’t believe you’ll find any “New Democrats” here aside from the occasional troll…but then you know that Ted.
But Ted, murder was just one of his many sins. Trying to cover up rape for his nephew, his drunkeness and his many lewd remarks and actions towards waitresses. This man has always been a louse. No wonder is wife, Joan, turned to alcohol to try to erase from her mind the things he was doing.
His gianat ego is what prompted his support of Obama. He just couldn’t stand the thought of another Clinton presidency.
Since you must be an Obot, it probably never occurred to you to read the FBI report. I did. So NOW who is uninformed?
http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/chappaquiddick.htm
A couple of years ago I found a site that covered the incident step by step, detail by detail. I can’t find it again, but it was really well done. It had all kinds of photos, police reports, testimony, etc. I’m still looking for it!!
Many of us are women. I am wondering what the reaction would have been had Mary Jo been Joe. The son of a politically connected family. Would Teddy have called? Would Joe have made it? And if he had died, would the reaction have been the same? See. It’s the “disposable” thing that gets me. Like she wasn’t important. That’s what bothers me. And to think that it is other women who minimize her. That is beyond disgusting. It’s literary homocide.
One more thing, “Ted.” Google “The Boiler Room Girls.” Take a look at the careers each and every one of those women had and imagine what Mary Jo might have produced. As John Dunne so apty put it, “every man’s death diminishes me for I am a part of mankind and therefor, never send to know for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.”
There is little none of us will ever know about that night. But when total strangers leap into buildings and pull people from flames and we call them heroes and the late Senator knew that a woman sat dying in his car and did nothing, what in God’s name does that make him?
In that video, you hear him plead guilty to leaving the site of the accident (he caused which any intelligent person can infer would have led to the death of the other person in the car). What more do you want to know? Why are you making excuses for him?
ted one thing i know for shure is that murder is not forgivable in gods eyes period.he has been judged and may god in his wisdom have mercy on his soul.
dont beleive it was murder sir,like the previous writer said read the FBI reports and open your eyes,if that had been you or i we would have rotted in state prison and not gone on to a distingushed carrear in the senate,but he was a kennady and this was mass and the fix was done.
Ted I know it took 12 hours for Teddy to call the police. I know the woman lived for 25 minutes and if he had just called for help she would be alive. I know about the Waitress Sandwich with his buddy Chris Dodd.
I don’t think it’s unfair at all.
He was guilty of manslaughter.
Thankfully The Pope has made no comment on his passing. Ted and the rest of the clan have flaunted their disrespect for the church in their actions and beliefs.
Geez, I expect nothing less than the Kennedy’s meme. We, the taxpayers paid this man’s salary for 50+ years. If he hadn’t learned in that time frame how to out maneuver his opponents AND negotiate then we didn’t get our money’s worth. Good grief, he was a professional Senator, nothing more and nothing less.
o/t - for those of you who are interested in learning about DNC election fraud, I invite you to visit the most stunning post I’ve read yet on this subject http://jbjd.wordpress.com/2009/08/28/never-less-than-a-treason-2-of-2/#respond
Happy Friday everyone!!!
I won’t try to defend his action at Chappaquiddick because it is indefensible. But as far as the comment about his liking jokes about the event I will state that in psychology this is known as a defense mechanism. It was his way of coping with what happened. Not that it was right, only that it was human.
Wow, maybe Ted let Splash watch while he and Dodd made their famous waitress sandwiches. Would that be psychology coping?
Ted Kennedy and his coping mechanisms? Who cares. That is a really lame excuse. But your comment makes me understand why Ted Kennedy endorsed and promoted Obama. Ted understood Obama’s “coping mechanisms” like giving Hillary the finger.
And Ted Kennedy probably had a lot of respect for a fellow misogynist.
hits the fan:
Are you a psychologist?
Yeah, making JOKES about someone you killed is a defense mechanism.
It means that you KILLED THEM.
He’s “coping” with the fact that he killed her, while lying under oath about it.
What a guy.
Glad the asshole is dead.
The Kennedy’s want to pretend that he became pure by living long enough to become “Uncle Teddy”, the family patriarch. The one who bailed them out and carried on. I never admired him and as time went on, although it was hard to give up my beliefs about Bobby (my first big political commitment) I came to see the family as a whole as one big myth. I do believe Bobby had had a rebirth after JFK died. He did change. That was obvious to anyone but who knows what he would have been vulnerable to had he lived to be President. With Ted at his side, he might have reverted back to being just a power mad Kennedy.
Certainly Camelot never existed. It was a myth manufactured by Jackie after JFK died. Probably in the midst of the shock, she devised a romantic notion to carry her legacy and, that of her children, forward. I don’t think she was an especially wonderful person…although I did like a lot of her external style. But even that wasn’t all that original. She dressed herself in the WH very much like Audrey Hepburn and the whispery voice came from Marilyn…maybe a slap at her husband. It wasn’t they who copied her…she just translated it into her own style and because of her status, people bought it as original.
I don’t feel the need to “honor” the memory of the Kennedys by giving up my security or benefits…I’m no liberal translation of what Melissa thinks of Mary Jo. Does this woman have a soul? Certainly, no shame.
I totally agree with you! Well said.
I remember when Hillary said with the republicans “you’re on your own”. Well I don’t feel the crowd in now thinks any differently about Americans. I agree my family’s security should not be sacrificed for the likes of Kennedy or Obama.
As for the wholesale abandonment of women by other women it has been the most disheartening thing of all to see.This young woman who died was an only child. I’m a mother of a daughter and everyday I work to overcome the dismissiveness towards our gender that goes completely unchallenged really in our country.I do it for my daughter.
I have several issues with Teddy Kennedy, including the Chappaquiddick matter, the IRA, and last but not least, his endorsement of Obama. I’m also not a big Kennedy fan generally, other than Eunice and the Special Olympics.
Despite that, I believe he was an outstanding Senator and that the country would have been far worse off had he not spent all those years in the Senate. I would not have said that a few days ago, but I have learned a lot about Teddy over the last couple of days. After his marriage to Vicki, he really became a new and much improved man. Did you know that he attended the funerals of every one of the servicemen and women from Massachusetts who died in Iraq? And he actually DID vote against the war.
Or that he writes to the families of the Mass. residents who died on 9-11 every year? That he called them all personally on 9-12?
Teddy Kennedy was responsible for the Individuals with Disabilities Act, the law that is to this day the guiding force behind Special Education in our schools. He was responsible for the Americans with Disabilities Act, Title IX, minimum wage increase, and many other pieces of legislation which benefit those who have no voice of their own in Congress.
So, you can continue to vent over all the things he did wrong, or you can start to realise that the good he did for so many millions of Americans at least evens the score, and IMO, outweighs the rest. Yes, he was a “professional Senator”, I would hope they all are, but few have served as diligently.
Nothing evens the score on murder. You have no idea what she might have been able to accomplish in her lifetime. No one does because she was murdered. Try telling her parents the score is even! Do you think they just got over it?
Trust me they didn’t. They suffered everyday of their lives while Teddy went on to live in fame. To womanize. To see his own children and grandchildren grow up. Teddy also did many wrong things in office. Like what he did to Reagan…
I lost my son in 1980. He was not murdered. The pain is always there. It never goes away. I couldn’t even imagine, nor do I want to imagine the pain these parent have had to live with everyday. That was a really cold hearted statement. The good he did evens out the score for murdering a young woman….Unbelievable.
Sandi78, Patsy Mink is the one who worked hard on Title IX. While Teddy might have worked on it, it was her special bill and it is now named for her.
I used to like the Kennedys, I think they contributed a great deal to our country. I watched JFK’s inauguration, I watched in disbelief and grief JFK’s assassination and funeral and the way Jackie carried herself through this trying time, grief-stricken, shocked and with dignity.
I volunteered for Bobby’s campaign and was horror stricken when he was shot and died. Teddy did a lot of good and contributed to the well being of our nation. Which does not mean that he did not commit a reprehensible act leaving Mary Jo to die. For me, Camelot crumbled after Chappaquiddick and I never trusted Edward Kennedy. And what he did to us by supporting and saddling us with That One, is another unforgivable act.
You might want to check out blackfive.net about Teddy attending every military funeral. That is a lie. There are witnesses to confirm that that did not happen, not even close. It’s a fairy tale to perpetuate his image. And as a mother of a soldier, I can’t stand it when politicians use soldier’s, especially dead soldiers, to further their name.
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2009/08/ted-kennedy-cbs-needs-to-do-some-fact-checking.html
Sandi78. As a civil rights fighter, your comments offend me the most because they accept the “SPIN” of the news media.
1. George Bush Sr was responsible for advocating and getting the Disability Act passed. I think it fell under Kennedy’s committee.
2. Bill Clinton ran talking about evening the playing field for workers and increasing the minimum wage despite Republican objections.
3. It was Johnson who pushed, cajoled, begged, and pleaded with all senators to support the civil rights legislation and who along with the most important member of congress at the time, Everett Dirken the Republican minority leader passed this legislation with overwhelming support.
Now everthing is attributed to Teddy. So keep believing in anything the MSM tell you. The longer you do that the longer they make a f__l out of you and control YOU
“…he attended the funerals of every one of the servicemen and women from Massachusetts who died in Iraq”
Unfortunately, it appears he did not.
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2009/08/ted-kennedy-cbs-needs-to-do-some-fact-checking.html
oops, sorry armymom & AIG, posted before I read your response
jeebus I can’t get anything right “AGI”
You’re okay, nomnom. And I have GREAT news today. My son just called and he’s home safely from overseas. I am just so relieved. I know there are many more that need to come home as well, but I am so relieved. I don’t mean to sound as though I don’t care about the others, again, just pure relief. I think I will actually sleep well tonight.
If you believe Ed Kleins’ statement “ted’s favorite jokes were about chappaquiddick” then you must believe his statement suggesting Hillary Clinton is a lesbian raped by her husband.
From everything I have read he discusses the rumors she is a lesbian, and says she has some lesbian friends, and says her school had lesbians. There have been many rumors that she is a lesbian, and personally, who cares if she was/is.
http://www.nationalreview.com/interrogatory/klein200506200754.asp
read the excerpt:
http://ebookstore.sony.com/ebook/edward-klein/the-truth-about-hillary/_/R-400000000000000033181
As for the rape thing - he said that Bill said, “I’m going to go back to my cottage and rape my wife.”
Do i believe in 1979 Clinton could have made that comment? Yes. Do I think he actually meant he was going to rape her? No. I would think he meant he was going to go home and ravage her.
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2005/06/im-going-back-to-my-cottage-to-rape-my.html
Although of course it’s what Ed Klein believes and has written, with all carelessness, that is at issue. Sensational charges require sensational evidence which this author does not give.
…writes a chapter about Bill Clinton raping Hillary Clinton, resulting in Chelsea Clinton’s conception — all based on a single “anonymous source who was with the Clintons in Bermuda.”)
http://mediamatters.org/research/200506230001
“Do I think he actually meant he was going to rape her? No. I would think he meant he was going to go home and ravage her. ”
What’s your definition of ravage?
What’s your definition of a “joke” or “in jest?”
And this is on air with Sean Hannity, Klein cycles through at least three versions of his own reporting the story.
I’m a huge fan of the Clintons and can still objectively contend there’s plenty for which to criticize without libeling them.
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/klein_backs_off_rape_smear_in_hannity_interview/
My answer, I don’ think rape is a joke.
mad passionate uninhibited sex..lol..
because she wanted him to.and if he hadne’d she would have ravaged him..i know i would lol..
Oh, but she must be a lesbian…get it ??
That’s it! Hillary has lesbian friends, therefore she is one.
“She said she was passionately in love with her husband, but many of her closest friends and aides were lesbians.” By that standard….I have lesbian friends, lesbian neighbors and a lesbian cousin, so I must be a lesbian, too. Wait till I tell my boyfriend. lol
http://dir.salon.com/story/books/feature/2005/06/21/klein/index1.html
Could someone please rescue my comment from the spam filter?
Good for you, Joy. I checked this man out and he has zero credibility. If I had known how to paste a link I would have done so. People should check sources. I have always enjoyed American Girl in Italy’s posts but believe she was too hasty in this one. I have been lurking on this blog for at least one and a half years and never thought I would see the venom spewed that I have over the past several days. What ever happened to the concept of redemption? I feel sad about a lot of the comments. No one is all bad or all good and should keep this in mind when judging others.
I did check him out, and everything I read pointed to him being friends with Kennedy, and having complete access to his family and friends to writes his many books on the Kennedy clan.
The only site I found that attacks Klein was Media Matters, and that is not surprising.
I believe his statement because he made it off the cuff, and then tried to back peddle.
Redemption? Teddy Kennedy lived, made mistakes and died at 77. Do we need to spend every weekend lionizing some celebrity who hit the lottery and then hit the skids? Lets do some stories on real people trying to make it through this Depression–nah the media would rather divert us with other lives then have us focus on our own.
andyp, redemption is a fine thing. too bad that the departed senator kennedy did not keep up the good work. the sad fact is he endoresed obama and it was actually said on cnn today that obama wound not have won without it.
now you can prattle on about redemption and all that. but the dark deed is done and from me there is no forgiveness for helping destroy my country by putting personal dislike for the clintons above love of country.
i used to be a democrat also and still admire the kennedy family in many ways along with my very real disappointments and regrets.
As a bloated, drunken Ted Kennedy liked to say “Let the good times roll!” The obots will be here in droves today scolding us for disrespecting Ted Kennedy.
Ted Kennedy will never be redeemed in my eyes. You have to show real contrition to be redeemed. Ted Kennedy (like his Mini Me, Barrack Obama) thought he was above answering to anybody.
Camelot is a myth. The Kennedy family got away with a lot of repulsive stuff, especially vis a vis women. But like a good little Liberal Democrat I learned to stifle my disgust for “the greater good.”
No longer. We have a Deomcratic Primary coming up. I got a call last night from Candidate X’s group urging me to vote for Candidate X in the primary.
I said “Does Candidate X support Barrack Obama’s health plan.”
Answer: “Yes”
Usually I would just have said goodbye and hung up. Instead I gave the caller (who interrupted family dinner) a harrangue about Obama. The caller started protesting and getting “in my face.”
I said: “Hey, you called me!”
What does this have to do with Ted Kennedy. I drank the Kennedy lemon ade years ago. Took a while to wear off, but now I’m immunized to tainted beverages. I do not put people on pedestals. I will no longer automatically vote for someone with a (D) next to his/her name.
Is Obama the torch bearer for the Kennedy legacy? You bet he is.
Looking back at my teens and twenties I can recall some bad accidents that resulted in death. I had a classmate that I had been a student “Bus Guard” with in elementary school. This was circa 1968.. Years later, on the day of our big high school graduation party to be held that night, that girl was driving with her little sister and as she pulled into major road, old Rte 9 that spans the state east to west, another group of friend retuning from a trip from Western. MA came up over the hill a little too fast and broadsided her. She was killed instantly and though her little sister survived, she witnessed the horrific death of her big sister. I knew the other driver and was good friends with a few of his passengers.
Later in my early twenties we were at a classmates annual New Years Eve party. Among our classmates was a friend who was on leave from the marines. He had come straight from the airport and was still in uniform. We were very close friends when we were younger. His family was a little on the wild side and he could have gone down the wrong path. So it great to see him standing there in uniform, decorated, calm, confident, in control. You could see he was going to do well in life.
After the ball dropped a number of people wanted to drive to an Italian restaurant/diner that was open until 2 or 3pm in the morning. I worked a 4×4 7Pm to 7am shift back then and had just finished my 4 day cycle the morning before and was working on no sleep, so I passed. So Several car loads of people headed to the restaurant and I headed home.
My marine friend was in a car being driven by his closest friend along with two others in the back seat. On the return trip from the restaurant they hit a patch of ice and the passenger side hit a pole, killing the marine and badly injury friend another with as sever laceration of the neck and a head injury. Had I gone i would have been in that vehicle.
Both of those of those drivers went on living though I don’t think they have ever gotten over it. The friend in the second incident, did not reapply for a drivers license until many years later.
The injured friend recovered and is successful but was never the same. He suffered some memory loss and a personality change
I was in a bad accident as well. I was going to the movies with a friend and we stopped for coke at a convenience store in town. A friend pulled in to show off his new Camaro. He really wanted to take us for a ride so we agreed to a quick 5 minute trip. He lit up the tires as we left and when he suspected that an approaching police officer was going to pull him over he pulled down a side road and hit the gas pedal. A minute later we went off the road at 75mph. Seconds later after glancing of numerous trees we slammed into a pile of firewood and an old car in this heavily wood area. I hit the dashboard at 60mph or more. My head went through the window, my arm was badly shattered. I was pinned in and the car was at a 45 degrees nose downward angle and I could hear gas from the ruptured gas tank sizzling on the hot exhaust. The driver and rear seat passenger had injuries but were able to get out to get help. I had to be extracted from the car. The driver slipped into a semi-comatose state on the ambulance trip to the hospital. It took two years out of my life. Two years of surgeries and rehab to get that the arm to a point where I could use it. It impacted my college schedule. I’ve lost track with the driver but I hear he is a math professor at at College in the South.
In high school, Barbara Bush rear-ended a former boy friend who was stopped at a red light, and he was killed.
People make mistakes.
Regarding Kennedy and the Chappaquiddick jokes. It could be the mechanism he used to deflect it. Imus would regularly do comedy bits with Kennedy impersonator that ended with him making gurgling noises as if he was slipping under the water. This happened 40 years ago.
The guy was a bit of rogue but he had a tremendous humanity in life to make up for it.
What do the stories of your experience with car accidents have to do with Sara’s post? None of your friends left another friend (including you) to die after a car accident. Your friends went for help, and you survivied.
Accidents happen, sure. But leaving a young woman to suffocate to death in car under water is no accident. It’s murder.
Coping mechanisms? That is obviously going to one of the themes for the day, along with the redemption arc, so beloved of newscasters and producers of reality TV series.
Ted Kennedy is not worthy of being made into a saint. He was lucky to outlive his enemies, so to speak.
Waiting almost 10 hours to notify the authorities, after contacting your aids and friends to develop a story….
Waiting 10 hours to report that he drove a car containing a passenger into a lake (oops!) was his coping mechanism.
no kidding!
An account of the incident…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident
Are you willing to sacrifice your life and the lives of your family members for a bill that bears his name? Cause that’s what this is all about — politicing a rotting bill by using Teddy’s name to sell it? Disgusting…
Central Mass,
As an ex teacher, I always have to comment on posts like this. For every impetuous teenager who gets into an accident, maybe accidentally is the cause of a friend’s death or life-long physical or emotional pain, there are hundreds and hundreds of teenagers and young adults who think before they act. They know they do not want to feel guilty, cause their parents and family pain, etc.
My response is always the same: because so many are impetuous does not make it excusable. Because some make it through o.k. does not make it excusable.
And as the others a have pointed out, it was Kennedy’s behavior during the hours and days after that really makes the whole thing inexcusable.
I am old enough to remember the whole sordid 60s thing and “Camelot.” Ignorant of his personal life, I was an admirer of John, but in those days I was still a Boston Catholic. I liked Robert better, because by 1968 I thought he was a better man. I still don’t believe the stories about Robert and Marilyn, but John and Marilyn I do.
My great complaint about Ted is that he betrayed his martyred brothers. Both John and Robert were killed by socialists/communists of the McGovernite wing the the Democrat party. The McGovernites hated both brothers with a passion. Yet soon after their funerals, Teddy was in bed with the McGovernites and happily stayed there until his too-long delayed death.
I’ll admit I’ve never heard that one.
Wow–that’s new to me also.
Robert Kennedy did indeed have an affair with Marilyn Monroe. There is a great body of evidence that the Kennedy’s were instrumental in her death.
RFK was as great a rake as John. He actually wanted to marry Jackie and never reconciled himself to Esther. The old man, Joe, had an arrangement with the Hollywood studio heads. Whenever they got a new load of starlets, they called Joe and flew out and tried them all.
Were these men handsome and rich? Yes. Did they possess the fairy tale nobility of Camelot? Not really.
Now seriously, the old man ran booze during Prohibition. He fought turf wars with the Syndicate and won. That’s how he became a multi-millionaire.
People of privilege never think they have to apologize for anything. I’ve seen up close how the upper 1/2 of 1% in this country act, the liberties they take with the rest of us, the pushing in line, so to speak, all because they feel entitled.
The waitress sandwich incident should be made more public than it has been. It would certainly put a dent in the reelection campaign of his ‘dear friend’ Chris Dodd, who was a willing participant.
what is that, waitress sandwich? i haven’t heard about that.
http://sonsoftherepublic.blogspot.com/2005/08/kennedy-dodd-waitress-sandwich.html
Boys will be boys!
and then he joked about it at some formal event? gross!
Agree with everything in this post, except for the mistaken use of the word “tragic” or “tragedy,” which applies on where moral blame cannot be fixed.
Homicide is not tragic. It is evil.
I swear the press would break a pubic bone to say nice things about Charles Manson if he had good things to say about Obama.
Charles Manson told his followers to kill people as a coping mechanism.
HaHa HARP–of course there’s that swastika tattooed in the middle of his forehead that would tend to make him a less sympathetic advocate for Thee One.
Thank you AGI!
As a high-schooler, I was impressed by JFK as I was expanding my horizons.
I have never been a “groupie” so my respect did not extend to many of the other Kennedys.
I do believe that it is possible for a person to utilize a trajedy to change their behavior and atone as much as possible. The rest is in the hands of our Creator.
The decadent deeds of many of Senator Kennedy’s later years do not indicate that he made the most of his reprieve.
f
I personally have NO respect for Ted Kennedy. If anyone else had done what he did they would have been in jail. It always amazes me how much a person can get away with if they have enough money.
In my state Kennedy would have been guilty of failure to notify the authorities of the accident. That’s it. The maximum penalty is 6 months in jail. The usual penalty is a $200 fine. Kennedy, in fact, plead guilty to some misdemeanor and received a suspended sentence. No different than anyone else would get in my state today.
GlowingSpark, he left a girl to die in a submerged car. If he would have immediately contacted the authorities, they would have sent trained help with the proper equipment, probably helicopters, there ASAP–especially with Kennedy’s influence. It doesn’t wash. I think that many of the party-goers that fateful night had college degrees: I assume they could think, even if befuddled by alcohol. What is the penalty in your state if you kill someone while drunk driving?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident
A drunk driver killing someone would probably be manslaughter. But, there is no evidence that Kennedy was drunk. You might think he was drunk but there is no evidence. Juries convict people based on evidence not on what might or might not have happened. You might not like that but that’s the way our system works. In America the argument “Oh, come on! You know he was drunk!” is not acceptable in a court of law.
And as for leaving her to die- The law he broke, at least in my state, is failure to report the accident. Also, the car was submerged in water. She could only survive two to three minutes tops. If neither her nor Kennedy could get her out of the car and to the surface, there was no way she could survive.
I am totally perplexed by the sagas in the Kennedy family. There is heroism and great personal sacrifice, but at the same time we see some Kennedys seemed to be going through life like a herd of sacred cows in a china shop, heedless of the damage they are inflicting on others.
Ted’s death caused me to look on the ‘net for a panoramic view of the clan. There’s glory, but much of it isn’t pretty, and some (like Chappaquiddick) is jaw-droppingly horrible. Everybody should be aware of the history of the clan’s patriarch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_P._Kennedy,_Sr.
But what really stopped me cold was what was done to JFK’s sister Rosemary, who was one year younger than Jack:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy
Isn’t it awful!
Rosemary Kennedy’s life was indeed sad, even horrific by today’s standard. But I think we have to put it into historical context. Lobotomies are considered primitive now, but there was a time when the surgury was given a nod by many professionals. Electric shock [which one of my aunts received and had her brains fried] was used routinely and far too frequently even when I was a kid. Other patients received massive doses of insulin.
Sadly, we’re still wrestling with mental health issues. There was a writer from New Zealand, Janet Frame, who narrowly escaped a lobotomy. A brillant writer but someone who had repeated mental breaks. And at that time, at that place the surgury was considered pretty standard.
So, it is sad. But I’d suggest the Kennedy family was taking advice of widely respected doctors [Lord knows they could afford it]and thought at the time, they were doing the best thing for Rosemary.
A tragedy for sure. But the Kennedy’s [for all their faults] were plagued by tragedy.
Well Peggy Sue, to put it in historical context (according to the Wikipedia link above), there had only been 65 lobotomies performed prior to Rosemary’s. They were trying to alleviate her “mood swings.” The doctor’s account of the procedure speaks for itself:
“We went through the top of the head, I think she was awake. She had a mild tranquilizer. I made a surgical incision in the brain through the skull. It was near the front. It was on both sides. We just made a small incision, no more than an inch.” The instrument Dr. Watts used looked like a butter knife. He swung it up and down to cut brain tissue. “We put an instrument inside,” he said. As Dr. Watts cut, Dr. Freeman put questions to Rosemary. For example, he asked her to recite the Lord’s Prayer or sing “God Bless America” or count backwards. … “We made an estimate on how far to cut based on how she responded.” … When she began to become incoherent, they stopped.”
Result: “Instead of producing the hoped-for result, however, the lobotomy reduced Rosemary to an infantile mentality that left her incontinent and staring blankly at walls for hours. Her verbal skills were reduced to unintelligible babble.”
With 20-20 hindsight, it was a very reckless decision. That word “reckless” will come up a lot in any honest critique of Kennedy family history.
Did you know that the doctor who “invented” lobotomy treatments received a Nobel prize for medicine? That is a pretty high recommendation of a treatment, I’d say.
Today there are many lawsuits against pharmaceuticals and doctors for unsafe medications and procedures. Are the people who take those medications at the recommendations of their doctors “reckless”?
Moniz got the Nobel Prize for this & other work in 1949. Am I missing something?
Rosemary’s prefrontal lobotomy was in 1941. Freeman and Watts, who scrambled Rosemary’s brain, remind me of mad scientists out of a horror movie. We’re not talking about new medicines here–we’re talking about guys cutting up the living brain with scalpels without really knowing what they’re doing.
Reckless. Evidence: the results.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy
“With 20-20 hindsight, it was a very reckless decision. That word “reckless” will come up a lot in any honest critique of Kennedy family history.”
You’re missing my point: you did not say the medical profession was reckless, you stated the Kennedy family was reckless in making the decision to go with a procedure that PRIOR to and AFTER 1949 had been written about extensively and lauded as an answer to a number of afflictions and that was recommended by doctors. Lobotomies continue throughout the 1950’s though in a decline as criticism against the procedure grew.
Were those the families and patients of over 20,000 people who are recorded to have had lobotomies “reckless”…not imo, for any evil done in the medical field, blame the medical profession and the institutions of greed behind it.
http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/lobotomy.html
At the time, only sixty-five lobotomies had been performed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy
I wouldn’t have consented to let the medical profession do that to my daughter, and yes, I consider it a reckless and even cruel decision. It was evidently Joseph’s decision; he was the patriarch. Of course certain doctors and their greed, and their Frankensteinian experimentation, is mainly to blame.
oowawa, I’m not arguing the surgery was anything but horrific. But there was a time that this surgery was considered a breakthrough, even revolutionary. The fact that it was a revolutionary bad idea is one we see in hindsight.
rw is right–the man who got credit for the surgical technique received a Nobel Prize. Not that a prize necessarily proves anything, this obviously being a case in point. But the idea of drilling into a patient’s head to relieve mental distress, emotional swings or even demons has a long, ragged history.
But I see no point in blaming the Kennedys or any other family when they were relying on the ignorance of the medical community advising them.
Thank God, we’ve jumped forward a little bit when it comes to mental health. But just to give you a personal anecdote, I grew up with a kid [the youngest of 4], who wasn’t diagnosed with mild autism until 10 years ago, at the age of 47. Before that he was put through all kinds of bizarre therapies and medications, the whole family spent years in counseling. But you cannot talk your way out of autism. And his life was pretty miserable as a result.
But no one knew any better at that time.
And Rosemary Kennedy? Tragic. And I’m sure there are many buried tragedies out there.
The Kennedy family has this barbaric surgery done because they thought their daughter was showing signs of being a “nymphomaniac” or “promiscuous.”
It was unforgiveable what they did.
The “Kennedy Family” didn’t have anything done, Joe Kennedy did. Why do you have to slam Rosemary’s siblings for a decision they had nothing to do with?
In an earlier post (Dead Like Ted) Docelder mentioned the reference in the Ed Klein interview to Chappaquiddick being joke material. This seemed so outrageous that I was skeptical anything like that was ever said. My comment at the time:
I’m still astounded by all of this.
When Robert Byrd dies will his legacy be that of a great Senator and Constitutional scholar or a member of the Klan? History is funny that way.
Of course, Shakespeare wrote that famous speech for Marc Antony in Julius Caesar. It was the clever speech of a politician trying to reverse the damage done by another tricky politician’s speech (Brutus).
It’s pretty tough for citizens to evaluate the true character of a historical figure from the contradictory aspects of their lives. Humans are complex.
And as is so brilliantly shown by Shakespeare in this scene, the crowd is easily manipulated by skilled orators. My opinion: try to consider both the good and the bad; no human should be irrationally deified or totally demonized. True repentance and regret for past wrongdoings should count, but that’s hard for humans to evaluate.
Spam Filter Mugging on aisle 2, please retrieve American Girl. I think the Almighty Spam Filter either disapproves of my blasphemy or is jealous of my wisdom.
Ted Kennedy’s “first marriage, to former model Virginia Joan Bennett, ended in divorce in 1982, with the marriage ANNULLED by the Roman Rota more than a decade later.”
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1919064,00.html
How could a marriage that produced three children be annulled? I guess the rules are elastic for the Kennedys.
Since that annulment went down so well, Joe Kennedy Jr. (Bobby’s son) tried it on HIS wife.
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The couple had twin sons, Matthew Rauch Kennedy and Joseph Patrick Kennedy III. Kennedy and Rauch divorced in 1991. Two years later, (Joe) Kennedy asked the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Boston for an annulment of the marriage on the grounds of “lack of due discretion of judgment”, meaning that he was mentally incapable of entering into marriage at the time of his wedding. An annulment would give the marriage the status of never having existed, and allow Kennedy to marry his former staff member Anne Elizabeth Kelly in a Catholic ceremony, as well as allow him to participate in other sacraments of the church such as Holy Communion not available to a divorced person. Rauch refused to agree to the annulment, and Kennedy married Kelly (b. 3 April 1957) in a civil ceremony on October 23, 1993.
The Boston Archdiocese did grant Kennedy the annulment, a fact discovered by Rauch in 1996. Rauch, who is not Catholic (she is Episcopalian), wrote a book titled Shattered Faith: A Woman’s Struggle to Stop the Catholic Church from Annulling Her Marriage explaining that she was opposed to the concept of annulment, because it meant in Roman Catholic theology that the marriage had never actually existed, and claiming that the Kennedy family influence made it possible to unilaterally “cancel” a 12-year marriage. She appealed to the Vatican to overturn the annulment.
The annulment was overturned by the Vatican in 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Patrick_Kennedy_II
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The Kennedys did many good things but they also did many things that would have (and has) ended the political careers of anyone not a Kennedy.
And people wonder why the Vatican turned down Obama’s choice of Caroline Kennedy as ambassador.
The Vatican is an institution with a checker past of its own, just like any other institution or any other person. For the Vatican, like for any other world body, the game is about power and money. Maybe Joe Jr. should have had a bigger check.
AGI–Brilliant post. After all of the Teddy deification by the media last week, I thought I had lost my mind or that I was living in a parallel universe.
I am a female and I was 19 years old when the Chappaquiddick incident occurred and I remember it well. I’m glad that somebody, somewhere finally had the courage to point out the elephant in the middle of the living room…and we are not talking elephant as in “republican”….
Thank you!
It is so interesting to me that you, and others on here, saw so much of our recent history that I only read about. It is so cool!
I guess there were a *few things* that happened in my lifetime, but the 60’s are just so pivotal.
Thanks for this great post. I hope Congressional Democrats who want to use Teddy’s death to sell this Poison Pill check out our comments because this would be over the top for even these disgusting pigs.
O.K. I’ve read through the entire post and the comments. Thanks, AGiI for doing all the research and commentary. And thanks to all the commenters before me for your insights.
When Reagan died, I lived through many days of cognitive dissonance since the Reagan everyone was cannonizing was definitely NOT the Reagan I knew. He had been greatly criticized during his presidency for his anti-regulation stance, his stupid “trickle down” theories. I remember snarky bumper stickers referring to him as Ronnie Ray-gun or ones jokingly campaigning for Reagan as Shah. I remember the GREED that followed his presidency and that had been encouraged by it–and the greed that I believe we are all paying for now.
Then back to the Kennedys. I was in eighth grade and my best friend and I were appointed to be Kennedy’s campaign managers during the mock presidential election that our school conducted to mimic the election going on in the nation. I remember the first televised debates of Kennedy with Nixon. I remember Jackie–enough said. I remember the Cuban missile crisis and the requirement that we all bring pillows and blankets to put in our school’s large warehouse-like basement just in case. I remember being in Algebra class and hearing the assassination news being broadcast over our intercom.
So it goes to say I remember everything after in regard to the Kennedys–Bobby’s work for Civil Rights, Bobby’s assassination, Ted Kennedy’s accident and later his relationship with Joan, his first wife–Everything.
I have always thought as I believe we all should that our politicians are humans and we need to understand that and never really take seriously any attempts to make them greater than that: a human just as each of us is.
It is human nature to create mythologies about leaders because we all desperately need good leaders. The opening lines of Beowulf, for instance, are all about establishing what a good leader is. “Thaet was god koniga.” (without diacritical marks and meaning “That was a good king.”) We read the Odyssey, the Iliad, the Aeneid, Gilgamesh, the Song of Roland, etc. to ponder what is good and what is bad about a leader’s character.
But the one thing we can’t ever get away from is the fact that every leader is a human, and it all comes down to asking oneself if you like of dislike the decisions that human leader made with his/her life.
I have often felt that Ted Kennedy’s legacy would have been better served if he had chosen the private option after the accident. And I am now certain that I would have preferred that. If he had done more soul searching and used the Kennedy name and fortune for doing good privately, I know I would feel better about all the praise coming after his death and it would have helped better to preserve whatever good will the Kennedy name has.
There were certainly other humans who could have stepped forward and done a good job in the Senate in his place.
I can’t stop without saying, I do not like the choice that was made recently to create a mythology in the name of Obama. He in no way epitomizes for me the likes of Beowulf, Odysseus, Aeneas, Gilgamesh, Roland, or any of the many mythological/historical leaders I grew up reading about. If I had to find a literary character to compare him to, I guess it might be Iago, from Shakespeare’s Othello.
I agree that they are human, which is so shocking to me how they go after each other so viciously.
They are always trying to knock each other down when they are all guilty of some other failure or error.
[...] he caused in Chappaquiddick which directly led to the loss of a life. In a confession video (See AGI’s post for it) he says he pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of the accident. That is enough for me to [...]
I would contradict the statements that this man “lived a life of public service.” Check out his bills. He benefitted Ted Kennedy.
We’un’s ain’t seen shat yet! With the kennedy’s finally gone from American politics what will replace it is the Clinton’s.
Thank you for a very interesting post AIG.
IYour post makes a contrast for me. Is there anyone left in the world of politicics that is not “fallen” from grace? Yet we call them leaders.
For me not so much.,the human failings are near impossible to overcome in the most principled person.
Ted and Obama are brothers in that sense but Mr. Tingles misses that point.
Again thanks.
Sara — thank you for posting this story. I can’t even imagine how this must affect the Kopechne family. Growing up in Texas I was far removed from the Kennedy adoration, so my impression of him is not a good one. That’s why I refrained from commenting on the day he died.
Living in New England now I’m bombarded with Kennedy coverage and it’s been HGTV for me for days now. I refuse to worship at the altar of Our Lady of Perpetual Equivocating.
To the question, “why we need term limits?” Ted Kennedy’s picture should be plastered next to it.
Should the public be convinced that he was effective versus complacent for 47 years?
The real question is, did he use the Senate to hide the fact that he got away with 1969 Chappaquiddick murder because of his family name and monies?
Or with Obama’s support, fake his own death to distract the world from his specific role behind the scenes in the orchestration and targeted murders and theft of opponent’s wealth accumulated for 7 generations and to celebrate (with new disguise and identity of course) with fellow culprits at upcoming G20 Financial Summit Meeting scheduled for September 25 in Pittsburgh, PA, attended by Obama of course…..
I finally found the site I was looking for. It is no longer online, but can be viewed with the way back machine. It is very in depth:
Timeline of Chappaquiddick -
http://web.archive.org/web/20041204072343/www.ytedk.com/chapter1.htm
I have had such a hard time watching the news all stations declaring what a fine man TK was. It turns my stomach. I well remember my democrat mom saying what a sleaze Kennedy was after Chappaquiddick; and I was young and impressionable. I later sought all stories and read everything I could before the age of internet; and came to the same conclusion of my smart; later-became-republican and now independent momma. Ted Kenndy repulsed me. He was a privelaged liar and a boozer. There is No better arguement for term limits that the like of Ted K. I hoped to come online and find reality; honesty and I have. Many posts are all over, and the obvious partisan ones will defend the indefensible. The truth is refreshing. He represented the greed of public service; and the corruption of politics and gerrymandered districts. Our society is upside-down if you listen to the media and buy the lies of this current administration and those in congress. Where are the ones who are unafraid to speak truth? THey are protecting jobs that pay high wages and entitle them to health care and banking perks the common man will never see. The media have all decided to suck up no matter what. We have to get them all out; the baby with the bathwater if need be; we need them to represent Character, honesty and the constitution from top to bottom, and the msm is the bottom.
Regarding annulment in the Catholic church, children do not become “illegitimate” if their parents’ marriage is annulled. The reasoning is that at the time of the marriage, at least one partner went in fully intending to make a good Catholic marriage which basically means being faithful, having children and raising them in the Church.
To the question, “why we need term limits?” Ted Kennedy’s picture should be plastered next to it.
Should the public believe that he was actually effective versus complacent and enjoyed luxury and privilege instead after 47 years?
The real question is, did he use and hide in the Senate as he got away with 1969 Chappaquiddick murder because of family name and monies compared to the average Joe on the street who would rot in jail for the same crime?
With Obama’s support, did Ted Kennedy faked his own death to distract the world from his specific role behind the scenes in the orchestrated murders and theft of targeted opponent and wealth accumulated for 7 generations and to celebrate (with new disguise and identity) with fellow culprits at upcoming G20 Financial Summit Meeting scheduled on September 25 in Pittsburgh, PA naturally attended by Obama?
Under close and independent scrutiny, it is people like Ted Kennedy that confirms our country can’t afford not to have “Term Limits” ASAP!!!
I just find it extremely disturbing that many people think that because he helped pass key legislation, that makes it okay to kill a woman, because this is exactly what Ted Killer Kennedy did when he got behind the wheel while he was drunk, ran the car over a bridge and went home while MARY JO KOPECHNE lay there, dying.
There’s something so very wrong in this world.
Now we are finding out that he wanted to hear jokes about the crime??
The people who keep defending this monster should feel ashamed. So what if he’s dead. The truth is the truth.
AND, I expected more from Fox.
I would love to know the Kennedy family holdings. The way people kiss their behinds is unreal.
I would say that Ted Kennedy got about equal time with Michael Jackson on media spin. That was about equal to the time spent on JFK Jr. which was about equal to Anna Nicole Smith. I’m not sure how any of that served the public good or did not but it is our “news spin”. Since the week-end news is mostly a dead zone, maybe it is all worth it, or not.
Hopefully, Kennedy will fade from the front pages along with Jackson. Of course, there is all that speculation about Jackson’s “homicide” from a celebrity drug dealing doctor(s). And whether or not health care reform will be the shining finish for Ted. All of that should take care of a few news cycles.
I agree with those who say—we need to see our politicians and celebrities more as they are and a lot less as we want them to be. We also need to accept that because they are just human beings and not for the most part heroic in any sense, we get the good with the bad. Homer’s tales were great myths well told—legends are not exactly new. And yes, some get by with doing really bad things, like being in a drunken stupor and leaving a young woman to die what must have been a terrible death. But then there is the convicted sex offender who was paroled early from a 50 year sentence and turned loose to kidnap an 11 year old girl and keep her captive for 18 years. And there is the Lockabie Bomber who blows up all those people and gets to go free. There is OJ Simpson. Not exactly guys with silver spoons at birth. So let’s keep things in perspective. Justice is an illusive, mysterious and life is not fair.
I, agree, of course. But don’t you wish with all your heart, because we need one so badly, that we could find a human who could be a true leader, one whose goodness and competence and integrity were of mythical proportions? And those characteristics would be his or hers so obviously that there would be no need for MSM spin.
I do not think we will ever get a Lincoln. He had human foibles, but nothing that had to be pushed under the rug and covered up, at least as far as I know.
The Chappequidick joke claim of this headline is at best hearsay from a mediocre source who is just one more inside the beltway gas bag. If you had a tape of TK saying these words, it would be real evidence. Since this whole celebrity/politician set loves to gossip and are legendarily famous for lies, I hope everyone here takes it all with a grain of salt, considers the source, considers the target and decides the most you can really get out of this is that this whole crowd is drunk most of the time on the liquor of their own access and spin.
Um….but…the fact remains, that a young woman died, drowning what must have been a terrifying death for several hours while it took Teddy 10 hours to notify authorities.
Ted nobody would have been locked up and the key thrown away. Ted Kennedy got by with a slap on the wrist and in his death is being treated like some sort of god. Baloney, bull and whatever word you want to put on it.
A young woman died and he contributed to that death from his lack of inaction and being so worried about saving his own political hide.
IMHO, he was not a great man.
Italian Girl
THANKS for great posts here and the videos are simply superbly chosen…bring back memories. And yes, I’ve changed my mind and wiped away tears after reading your post…You had a familiar effect on me. I now wish Teddy Boy a seat in Hell, beside the reserved one for O.J.
O.J. TEDDY will meet his maker…May she forgive him for I can’t
I was always baffled by the voters of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
They all knew the score (let girl drown while trying to score while wife is pregnant, flee scene, attempt coverup, work system, fake neck injury), and yet they sent him back to the senate over and over and over and over and over.
What gives with American voters?
Down with incumbents and boo to Ted! He was a man of extremely poor character who should have been forced out of office by the folks in charge - the voters.
Money does seem to buy a lot of things including a political office.
Joe Kennedy had his hands in many places.
Although I think Bobby and JFK were the greatest people, I do feel Joe’s money had a lot to do with the political positions they got.
Why has the Lord said if you repent, you will be forgiven? It would have been the proper thing for Teddy to apologize in public….but he didn’t. I feel he repented in private to the Father and the Son (Jesus Christ). A promise of salvation was given to all of us sinners by God. Do you think Jesus shed his blood for nothing??
Cain killed Abel and was forgiven, became the head of a nation, father of several children and lived hundreds of years.
You will face judgement…..good luck!