Healthcare letter: for viral distribution
By CRAIG DELLA PENNA on September 1, 2009 at 2:08 PM in Current Affairs
I’ve written a sample letter I’m hoping to get out to as many people as possible. This is the last week of the Congressional recess and your Senators and Representatives may think they can relax. We need to keep the pressure on to make them painfully aware that we – their constituents – are mightily pissed off about this and that we don’t buy the BS coming out of the White House. I urge everyone to use this sample letter and send a copy to your Representative and to your two Senators. Then send a copy of the letter to everyone you know locally and to everyone you know in any other Congressional districts and states. Perhaps we can get this going virally and deluge the politicians with letters from the very people who elect them. Maybe we’ll even get their attention.
Dear (insert Rep or Sen name):
I am a constituent, writing to you about the ‘healthcare’ issue. I use quotes because it is apparent that this is not at all about healthcare but about ensuring insurance company profits for the foreseeable future.
I am adamantly against any ‘healthcare’ legislation at this time, for two reasons: first, the ‘healthcare’ proposals, in any of the five versions of the bill that I have seen, are dedicated to preserving the status quo; which means they are not solutions at all. Second, if this sham proposal goes through it will destroy any chance for true reform, i.e., single payer, for at least one generation, probably two.
I say ‘single payer’ because that is the only way we are ever going to get true healthcare reform – private healthcare insurance has to go. Until we can face that simple fact we will not get healthcare costs under control, ever.
I say ‘we’ but of course I mean you as my Representative or Senator. You are responsible for getting us out of this mess and please don’t talk to me about ‘public options’ or ‘healthcare co-ops’ these are ridiculous red herrings and you know it. There is only one way to contain and control healthcare in this country: single payer. Every other modern country in the world has single payer in one form or another: they all work much better than ours and cost half as much to run.
There is a reason they cost that much less to run, here are the numbers from the 2008 annual reports of the top four private health insurers:
United Health Group 2008 Results of Operations SEC filing 10-K
Revenues $81,186,000,000.00
Medical Costs $60,359,000,000.00
Remainder $20,827,000,000.00
Remainder as percentage of Revenue: 25.6%
Wellpoint 2008 Results of Operations SEC filing 10-K
Premiums $61,679,200,000.00
Benefit expense $47,742,400,000.00
Remainder $13,936,800,000.00
Remainder as percentage of Premiums: 22.6%
Aetna Inc PA 2008 Results of Operations SEC filing 10-K
Revenues $28,775,000,000.00
Medical Costs $20,785,000,000.00
Remainder $7,990,000,000.00
Remainder as percentage of Revenue: 27.7%
Humana 2008 Results of Operations SEC filing 10-K
Revenues $28,064,844,000.00
Benefit Expenses $23,708,233,000.00
Remainder $4,356,611,000.00
Remainder as percentage of Revenue: 15.5%
These numbers, proof of the obscenely high profit margins of private insurers, should help you in your argument against this atrociously bad legislation. It may help stiffen your resolve to remember that these profits are made on the suffering of your constituents.
In the legal world there is a phrase used to affix responsibility for actions or failure to act, it is: “Knew or should have known”.
Now that you have the above information, you can no longer claim ignorance, you are responsible.
Please know, also, that we will hold you accountable. This is a defining moment for you as my Representative or Senator. No previous good works will sway me if you fail to represent my interest in this matter – unless you vote against this preternaturally bad legislation, I will vote against you in your next election. Furthermore, I will make every effort to see that you are defeated and turned out of office.
Very truly yours,
(your name)
Go here to find your Representative’s contact information.
Go here to find your Senator’s contact information.
For more information on Single Payer, go here for Single Payer Action.
And go here to join the Mad As Hell Doctors.
(Release: November 13)
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Good work!
Our own worry is that we end up with basically the same healthcare, except rates skyrocket out of control in homage to the drug industry.
I think that isthe plan…plus making you buy their crap policies or you’ll be ” fined”.
I love the idea that if your ass is fired, you still have to buy this insurance shit or you’ll be fined. So on top of wondering if the care one paid for will be denied, even if you can’t afford their shit, you will get soaked for totally nothing too Progress! /snark
K Street’s idea of UHC is everyone pays for the insurance crap, and still pays even if they can’t afford the insurance crap
Totally! When people say we need to change from the status quo, they fail to entertain what could be WORSE than the status quo. The scenario you described is worse than the status quo!!
United Health Group has about 70,000 employees.
With $20,827,000,000.00 to divvy up, it would mean $297,528.27 available to cover the expense of each and every employee, including the janitors. What’s not paid out in lower echelon salaries goes directly to the profits of the upper execs and the owners.
And, if the Obamacare bill passes as is, taxpayer dollars are going to fatten these obscene profits even more.
Thanks, I’ll do this today.
Excellent information and post.
And, for the koolaide drinkers on the left who think the current legislation problems it’s opposers have been discussing are making things up, PAY ATTENTION.
And, gee, we end up with this give away to Big Pharma, Insurance and Hospitals and the one person who took over the health care potion with the Obama lawyers in the Senate is Chris Dodd himself, Mr. Insurace from Connecticut. Uh huh.
How do all of Obama’s excuse makers like those OPEN Negotiations and TELEVISED discussions in putting this health care together that Obama promised? it’s OK, because you trust him? lol right.
we the people must speak..
Sorry but NOOOOO. I lived under a single payer system, I paid under a single payer system and there is NOWAY I’ll ever support any legislation gearing up to it.
The resulting system are at best average. But more insidiously, it create a enormous block of voters more interested in their own interest and agenda than in patients welfare. If you think health reform is hard to pass, wait till you have created that monster…
It also generate apathy among taxpayers and patients tru deresponsibily. It is in essence the total opposite of JFK mentra: Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
Then what would you suggest, Frenchnail?
Reforming the Insurance system on 3 fronts: portability (abandonment of employer based policy), nationwide open market (with national guidelines for minimum standards) and TORT REFORM at the national level(to cap costs).
Many people would keep or have insurance if they could time to time revert to catastrophic minimum coverage. Such a catastrophic paying plan could be affiliated to medicaid.
I think this is similar to what they have in Germany, correct? I know that there is mandatory insurance coverage that private or semi-private insurance groups must provide to all citizens (i.e., no government-run health care but this part is subsidized by taxes)regardless of health or preexisting conditions, in addition to private insurance that individuals can get over and above the mandatory insurance(and here, insurance companies have more leeway to decide whom to cover). I don’t know enough to know the pros and cons, but it does seem as if it is possible to have universal health coverage without the government actually engaged in the operation of health care and health procedures.
See, Sick Around the World.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/
Thanks for this site, jbjd — it’s very interesting and very well laid out, in understandable, straightforward English — and it does seem that it is possible to have universal coverage without the government running health care. One thing I don’t understand about the info on the site about Germany: my acquaintances over there tell me that it’s not single-payer; costs are paid through the semi-private HMO-type organizations (”Krankenkassen”); the government just establishes regulations for that part of insurance that has to cover everybody (leaving it open for people to get other insurance) and subsidizes the costs for low-oncome people. It is true that the docs claim they don’t get paid well, comparatively speaking. Anyway – great site for comparison — thanks!
My understanding is that the German plan works very well. I used to think single payer was the only way to go until I saw that many European countries have these more “hybrid” plans.
The problem with single payer is when it is under-funded. Look at Massachusetts and Canada. And no one in the USA wants to pay for this in a rational manner. Obamacare is rationed and expensive and doesn’t solve the problems inherent in our current system.
Healthcare reform is huge and expensive and complex–they should have had some experts putting ideas together for us not the gobbledy-gook we get from Congresspeople indebted to the healthcare industry for campaign dollars.
“and TORT REFORM at the national level(to cap costs).”
This might cap costs, but it will leave patients vulnerable to under compensation for malpractice. Like this case: patient suffered malpractice and became paraplegic, after settlement he waited two years for….100,000e. There are lists of this type of compensation in the EU.
I concur with you rw. I will give up my right to legal counsel when the insurance companies do also. If one wants tort reform, then let’s go all the way and really even the field. Anything less is empty rhetoric.
NPR did some fact checking today because they had run a report about law suits and malpractice only being 1% of our costs and Bill Bradley (lover of BO) wrote a column in the weekend NYT that said it totals 10% of our medical costs…
And after fact-checking it really is only 1%!!!!
More propaganda from the left (I still consider myself left….)
Is it not interesting bayareavoter, that I and many others, like you, realize that we are basically still “to the left”, yet do not have a clue as to who the hell most of today’s leftists are?
I am no longer a Democrat. The primary took care of that. I am now an independent, more aware than ever, voter.
Yet, I am still liberal. Have always been a social liberal, fiscal conservative, and never ashamed of the liberal label.
I do not even know exactly what a “progressive” is, unless it is someone running from the liberal label, and thinks progressives are more elite than, and superior to, we plain old liberals.
However, from what I see of those who call themselves progressives, and the political havoc they wreaked during the primary, and since, I want no part of them.
Agreed FrenchNail re: single payer. Here come the death panels or whatever you want to call them.
And, Mr. Della Penna – who do you think you are to tell anyone what to write to their Congress people? To be fair, I said the same thing to a rightwing cousin of mine about a letter that he suggested I send out.
Thankfully, this is a country that still has the 1st Amendment and we, the people, can write what we damned well please. Which I’ve already done expressing my opinions in my own voice.
Reading most of the comments here over the past months, I doubt that any of the others need your words to express their feelings.
Obama has been pushing for single-payer, which will edge out competition – something that has kept our country vibrant. As someone who worked in human resources and was part of the process of “shopping” for health plans, the competition of different companies is what kept the costs down and the benefits up.
The insurance companies need regulation, but they should not be put out of business entirely. What’s wrong with making a profit, anyway? Last I heard, profits were good things and helped pay the bills and enabled people to BUY stuff. It’s the American Way.
If you were discussing automobiles or refrigerators, I’d agree. Healthcare is an entirely different matter. The profit motive comes between actually helping someone to get well and greed. Which one wins? And if you say the patient, you’re as bad as any obamabot. If insurance companies were truly “for” patient health, claims would not be denied on the flimsiest of bases.
I’m all for capitalism–so long as the audience isn’t captive.
If insurance companies were truly “for” patient health, claims would not be denied on the flimsiest of bases.
Amen… and I see no difference between the Gov or Business running health care expect with business I can be denied and or lose my house trying to stay alive….no thanks.
The insurance compaines take 30 % of every medical dollar spent, for nothing, except Kafka paper work denying your care , obscene CEO salaries and campaign contributions. If we are to have crappy care, I would rather it be with Medicare’s 5% administrative costs as opposed to the insurance industry complex ’s 30-35 % profits for nothing.
But never fear! Real reform is NOT being offered or in the cards ….if the status Que is maintained, the insurance compaines will continue to make boats of momeny for nothing, if something called Obamacare is pushed though, the insurance compaines will make boats loads of money, but we will be required to buy their shit .
Medicare for all isn’t on the table, it isn’t even in the building, so relax, nothing will changed
With all due respect, Ferd and Craig:
If you think there should be no profiteering in health care, then all people with skill in this area, from doctors to health insurance paper pushers, are morally obligated to provide their services at whatever pay they are lucky enough we decide they get, not at the pay they can earn in the marketplace. Why would anyone train for these skills or work in the industry if they are no longer going to be free to decide how much and at what price to provide them to others? (Price artificially forced down–by, let’s say for example, legislation–means supply reduced and demand increased–econ 101.)
Once we are allowed to lay claim to someone else’s skills as our right, we have enslaved that individual.
It also follows: why then should we allow profiteering in the food growing or shelter building industries? These needs are even more basic to human survival. Like agriculture and construction, medicine, after all, is a knowledge and skill base any of us can acquire with sufficient study and practice. (And even though it is physically impossible for one to perform surgery on oneself, this is a problem solved simply by cooperating with others–if you’ll operate on me I’ll operate on you, or exchange some other service of value with you.) Why are people who possess food, building materials, or exceptional knowledge of these things not forced to provide them to others to fulfill their basic needs?
I am not defending insurance companies per se, just peoples’ rights to profit from whatever service they want to offer to others.
IMHO, deregulation of both insurance companies and health care provider licensing would go a long way in terms of opening up many more and competitively priced health care options for people. Tort reform is a huge part of this. If this can happen, then I also think standardization of service levels (as defined by an independent organization or the government) would help the industry ’speak the same language’ to customers, enabling customers to easily make coverage level decisions and price comparisons.
Government’s role–in this as in anything–metaphorically speaking should be to remove the roadblocks and smooth the way, NOT to drive the car down the road. What they have done so far is to construct many odd and heavy roadblocks, wrestle for the keys with us, and try and convince us only they are capable of driving the car now. It’s just not true.
One: The strongest word I used was ‘urge’, I didn’t tell anyone what to do.
I just exercised my 1st amendment right (as you point out) to speak my mind.
Two: You are wrong, Obama has not been puhing for single payer – ever. Go back and look up his record on this (one of the few records he has) starting with his stint in the Illinois State Senate.
Three: Apparently you completely miss the point. Here it is again: profits on healthcare insurance come completely from the pain and suffering of others. Any dollar of profit made by a private healthcare insurer might have been spent on more or better healthcare for their sunscribers. Are you sure you want ot trumpet how great it is to make a profit in this context?
I used to be for universal health care, but I can’t support this particular Government on anything. I prefer they not touch anything unless and until they prove their worth by doing some REAL move to fix the economy and create REAL jobs. My letter will have to be quite different. Everything Obama touches is a disaster so he should not go for universal health care at all. Just drop it. There is no real chance for any successful policy from this administration until they put people to work. They do not want to help this country so they can just leave the healthcare alone. period.
Me too Obamastolemycounty, they have poisoned all they have touched and will touch. I am not in any way at all going to let the federal government have any more power. Not this one or future yet to come.
With health care they have the power over life and death. They are desperate to shove it on us. Why? Because we would have given away free will. You can twist it and turn it any way you wish but it is still government health insurance and you cannot pedal it to me. I suggest everyone think really hard before you sign and send out anything, and hey what you send out make it your own.
I have noticed for months that you have gone on an on about this but have never offered any alternative to the insurance-company bonanza being paid for by all of us, which amounts to a health tax (you want to be healthy–you will pay through the nose at a clip of 4x or so the inflation rate). Criticism of That One and his henchmen’s policies is well and good and I agree but our system is skewed and the carnivorous hyaenas that populate the insurance industry are getting fat and happy off the misery of others. Moreover, insurance companies do the very things you rail about the government doing. So what is your answer, Tzada?
The silence is quite deafening.
The silence from the Republican side is always deafening, Ferd. Except for the word: NO!
I do not trust this Adminstration. But I do not trust the Republicans are anything more than obstructionists.
If the plan was brilliant? They would say, nada.
If the plan was brilliant …
Obama, Pelosi and Reed and the other elites would never be the makers of it…
and YES republicans WOULD back a good plan… but what we have on the table is JUST crap.
(Bad) Mandated abortion coverage?
(Bad) 45 million new clients to the system and not the ability to cover them if we graduated all the potential medical students down to those still in 2nd grade…
(Bad) 17 million illegals with free care that they are not contributing to…
(Bad) a healthcare czar who has ANIMALS at the same level of rights as Humans??? I love animals but if it was between my wife and your dog… you would be visiting the pet store for another one real soon.
So if we don’t have the medical staff to cover the new need …
HOW WILL I STILL BE ABLE TO GET THE SAME Coverage and care?
Rationing by the heathcare czar…? Ugh
I just got an e-mail from Durbin, Leahy and Mark Warner all about how Republicans are lying and spreading myths. Of course, it’s not possible to say what is a myth and what isn’t because Obama won’t tell what exactly he’s supporting.
These senators insist the plan won’t cover illegals, but I have gotten several messages from Numbers USA stating that there is no particular provision for illegal healthcare, but healthcare providers are barred from asking if people are legal citizens, opening the door for great abuse–which American citizens will pay for.
I trust Numbers USA, I don’t trust the Obama Democrats.
Tek,
There is no provision in HR3200 being proposed, but these is where it gets sticky. It is my understanding that some Congress or Senate members tried to put a provision in the bill to stipulate that illegals would not be covered, it was voted down by the Democrats in Congress. So if we are going to cover 47 million people that are not covered, how would that preclude the illegals from being covered? That is why the Democrats don’t want to make it definitive by putting in the provision to not cover the illegal citizens.
Uh huh. While HR3200 states illegal aliens are NOT covered, there is no provision requiring documentation proving legal residency before signing up. So therefore, they are eligible for insurance and treatment and it’s only reasonable they’ll take advantage of that loophole. And if the person works under the table and pays no income tax at all, then they contribute nothing to the tax revenues but still get the benefits. Also, I heard that if one person is a legal immigrant (such as a wife) she qualifies and by extension any immediate family members, even if illegally here, are eligible for coverage.
I can’t get behind single payer. I am just not ready to turn that much control over to the government. They can’t even process payments for the 3 billion dollar cash for clunkers program in a timely manner, I don’t trust them to pay my health care provider on time. They’ll be like the state of California – issuing IOU’s for how many months/years it takes to get it all figured out.
“While HR3200 states illegal aliens are NOT covered, there is no provision requiring documentation proving legal residency before signing up.”
Reminds me of how we have a law that a president must be a natural born citizen, but there is no requirement that it be proven…
Tango, I got the illegal issuemixed up with the Abortion issue. I’m copying an article that I just read. It might be of interest to you all.
CRS says healthcare bill would cover illegal aliens
August 31, 2009 by Personal Liberty News Desk
The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) has long criticized the proposed House healthcare bill for its provisions to cover illegal immigrants, and its position has now been supported by a report from the Congressional Research Service (CRS).
CRS is the research arm of the U.S. Congress, and its study has found that under the Affordable Health Care Act of 2009, proposed by the House of Representatives, illegal aliens would potentially be able to receive benefits under the so-called public option.
It has also established the bill does not include a mechanism to prevent illegal immigrants from applying for and receiving “affordability credits” that would help low-income individuals purchase private health insurance.
“These loopholes were intended to extend benefits to illegal aliens while allowing Members of Congress to deny those facts to the American people,” says Dan Stein, president of FAIR.
“It is time for the politicians to close [them],” he adds.
CRS is calling on Congress to adopt clearer language that would unequivocally make illegal aliens ineligible for publicly funded or subsidized healthcare and require stringent verification criteria. It also wants a five-year waiting period introduced for legal immigrants to prevent abuses of the system through “healthcare tourism.”
Which is another pachyderm in the room; is quite possible the years and years and years illegals have been treated, say for example in California, may have contributed to some of the deficit and issue and problems we have with health care?(sarcasm) I remember quite well as a young mother in the early 80’s, being denied coverage for myself and my toddler son, any form of social help as in medicine, food or housing, because I was bringing home 350.00 a week after taxes. I remember this so well, as many people felt it was their duty to make sure and feed the tired, and the hungry and care for the poor; but not the American poor, rather those who may become American’s one day.
The problems we have now are not new, and not addressing the issues which have perpetuated a system into failure, will not bring about the relief we seek as citizens for health care in our country. This health care bill is like putting a band-aid on a gushing artery, smiling and saying to the patient; it’s alright, just a flesh wound.
We could be the altruistic nation we strive to be if only we would put the oxygen mask on our own people, first. Fix our economy, create jobs, take care of OUR MILITARY AS PROMISED, make secondary education affordable, and primary education applicable; clean up our own side of the street. Create health care that addresses our issues, maintain this government for its people. Then we we will be able to reach out more often in a real fashion. No more bills for political party future campaign advantage, no more beating down our countrymen and women because of one label or another. Enough is enough. The government needs to be fired or behave as citizens actually interested in their country, not just their political career. I’m sorry, if this makes me racist, xenophobic, whatever, I can live with it; I’ll take my chances.
Not to mention the fact that Immigration Reform has been identified as something on the near-future to-do list… After immigration reform, I would imagine that the majority of the current illegals would no longer be considered illegal – and therefore covered.
We already pay for the illegals’ healthcare.
Do you really think that they pay for all those visits to the ER, hospital and etc.
Mind you only rumor but I understand that ER visits are preferred over Doctor visits becasue its easy to get in and out of ER with fake ids.
Craig,
I don’t agree with your letter and will not be sending it. I don’t agree with a single payer health care. We don’t even have a final congressional bill yet. It’s sheer speculation as to what any final bill of both the House and Senate will and will not contain. It would limit what they cover; Medicare already limits what they cover. Two years ago I sold a house which increased my income. Consequently, my Medicare premium went up substantially the next year. I have supplemental Insurance with United Health Care to cover what Medicare won’t pay so that I can have better care. Without the supplemental Insurance my care would be limited. Why don’t you check out the proposal by the bipartisan Finance committee of six? I think that there is a place for Insurance Co.
Lisa:
I respect your decision, but…
I think the bare facts are that any kind of private insurance puts an unbearable burden on healthcare for one main reason:
The profit motive. Private companies are in business for one reason only – to make a profit. That profit must come out of money paid in premiums. It can’t come from anywhere else. Therefore, any public, non-profit healthcare service must be better in terms of money spent vs money received. Yes, this assumes that programs are administered efficiently and, as it turns out, Medicare is very efficient vs the private insurers.
In addition, all we need to do is look around us. Everyone else in the developed world has single payer and they ALL have better healthcare than we do and it costs them half of what we spend per person.
It just seems obvious to me… but that’s why they make chocolate and vanilla!
“In addition, all we need to do is look around us. Everyone else in the developed world has single payer and they ALL have better healthcare than we do and it costs them half of what we spend per person.”
Have you done your research on this or you are just assuming? Can you provide us with some factual information?
Right now many of the UHC plans around hte world are implodding and having some major problems.
Not a good sign.
Ours is imploding, too. There is an answer which doesn’t include insurance companies or the government. Distribution and overhead are our biggest problems.
Well, they don’t all actually have single payer; you have to do the research. Additionally, the combination of provisions that works in one country, given that country’s social and historical dynamics, might not necessarily work in another country.
OECD numbers for 2007
Healthcare expenditure per capita, public and private expenditures in US dollars:
US: 7290
Next most expensive, Norway: 4763
Average of OECD countries: 2964
So why is it that people from all over the world, including many coming from single payer systems, are coming to the US to get the very best care…
You do not know what you are talking about. You have not experienced those systems first hand.
And you are not considering all the ancillary costs involved in producing such system.
Single payer is a system invented before the age of computers, in times when the population was not knowledgeable and informed. It is a paternalistic system obsolete by concept.
America can do much better and craft an American system for itself which, I bet, in 20 years will be copied by the rest of the world..
ONLY if we rid ourselves of insurance companies for starters. Insurance companies are bloated bureaucracies just like the government, top-heavy, meddlesome, and filled with little fiefdoms. By the way–it isn’t the insurance companies that have ensured us the best care. Far from it. It is those dedicated physicians, nurses, and other staff who have made us the envy of the world. The insurance companies are just middlemen who bullied their way into the system because of the dollar signs in their eyes and insatiable greed in their hearts.
That being said, I am four-square any bill put together by That One and his minions. They do not have anyone’s interest at heart except their own and will make the current unacceptable situation unbearable.
Why are so many Americans going ‘there’?
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/01/medical_vacations.html
Help! Another spam gobble. Sent an email.
I think you’re providing a very important pov, French Nail. In fact, I think we’re getting very skewed stats on US healthcare anyway. For instance, there was a link provided recently [by Patience, I think] indicating the infant mortality rates in Europe do not consider any infant born earlier than 26 weeks. In the States, one breath = live, regardless of gestation. And I’ve read other articles suggesting the WHO stats are ideologically driven.
That being said, I’m a strong believer in reform, which means lowering costs and leaning on the obscene profits made by the insurance industry and Big Pharma, maintain quality and pull in as many uninsured as we can without bankrupting the nation. But even with the uninsured numbers, we have large descrepencies. The 46-48 million numbers are repeated ad nauseum without breaking the numbers down. How convenient! It reminds me of the 36,000 people who presumably die from flu each year in the US. Is it verified? No, it is not. Any more than the 96,000 deaths predicted for 2009-2010 US swine flu infections.
Are they pulling these numbers out of the air? I’m beginning to think so.
I agree that competition across state lines and tort reform are two areas to consider. But turning the system on its head at this point in time, increasing the debt by trillions of dollars in an economic turndown only sounds like national suicide to me.
Plus, I have no faith in this particular Administration to know what they’re doing or to tell the truth.
So, though I want health care reform, my answer to this folly right here, right now is a resounding, “No!”
Peggy Sue, I think you are on to something there (sadly)!
To illustrate, here is a comment from a blog post I read, in response to manipulation of infant death data:
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2009/08/how-to-manipulate-infant-death-data.html
I’ve taken graduate level statistics classes. It’s always been amazing to me how statistics are horribly abused and misinterpreted in both the media and in situations where you’d think accuracy would be a primary concern. Seriously, this story is just the tip of the iceberg.
I agree, Craig. Our system worked without insurance companies back when hospitals were not-for-profit and pharmaceutical companies actually gave a crap. I’m a capitalist but also understand that it is a system that doesn’t work well when the audience is a singularly captive one. Moreover, the profit motive is unethical when health is involved. Indeed, along with it comes such niceties as advertising, which does nothing to improve the quality of care and is actually disturbing, on many levels and–get this–valet parking at a hospital. What utter gall and truly conspicuous consumption.
You’ve determined that on what basis? Have you dealt personally with Medicare? Because I can guarantee you, Medicare is NOT efficient, and unless you can afford the premiums for supplemental insurance, the coverage is limited.
If the single payer healthcare is similar to Medicare, I, for one, want no part of it.
Costs for Medicare administration run at about 2-3% vs 20-30% for private insurers.
I’m not saying Medicare doesn’t need serious attention but even now it’s far better at providign medical care than any private insurer.
The only problem, Craig, is that even with those %s Medicare and Medicaid are going belly-up. When all the discussion about the problems with SS and Medicaire have been discussed in the past, the ugly stepsister was Medicaire, slowly but surely tipping towards insolvency. It’s not a problem we can ignore or pretend doesn’t exist. Whatever program we fund, we need to make it solvent with real numbers, math that actually works, not magical thinking. Otherwise, no one will be served.
Btw, I believe in health care reform. But I want reform that makes sense and won’t go off the rails in the next decade.
I mean please! We can put a man on the moon but we cannot figure this one out? The American public deserves better. And should demand better. Which they are, whether it’s for the right or wrong reasons.
The Administration needs to slow this down until there’s a feasible plan in hand. What the Dems are delivering simply ain’t it! I mean for God’s sake, they can’t even explain it!
Is there any reason people are balking? There are some things that can not be outsourced to Congress and special interests. Health care is a prime example. Obama has completely skewed the message, and in doing so any liklihood that we’ll get true reform is in the minus range. Back door deals with monied interests do not inspire confidence,
And as a Dem myself? That makes me absolutely furious.
Medicare may be well run (I’m not sure it is) but they underpay for all services. So I’m not so convinced that is the solution.
and NOT every other developed country has single payer health care–there are several European countries that regulate what ins companies can charge and say that they must insure everyone and the public is very happy with their plans.
I used to be for single payer until the country went broke and no one is willing to pay more taxes for health care. You can’t have universal care by taxing the “rich”.
Why not make it like social security and all working people pay into a fund? Because there will be a tax revolt.
Illegal=no coverage. End of story and hopey dopey dreams, bot.
Sorry, Lisa, but your medicare premium has NOTHING to do with your income.
Donjo, I don’t know that you have your facts straight. My premium ( monthly deduction from my Social Security check for Medicare) went up $35.00 a month for one year. When I called Medicare and asked why, I was told that my income exceeded the limit for my original social security allotment. Why don’t you call Medicare or Social Security and ask them? I know what I’m talking about because I have experienced it first hand.
Donjo, After I answered your post I checked out what the limits are for Medicare premiums.
0 to $85,000.00 $94.60 mo
$85,000 to $107,000.00 $134.90 mo
$107,000.00 to $160,000.00 $192.70
$160,000.00 to $213,000.00 $250.50 mo
and so on
I absolutely believe in major health care reform for this country. But I have no faith or confidence that this Administration can and/or is willing to provide it.
Until we can turn the economy around, put people back to work and stop the fraudulant banking/Wall St. scams, any talk of trillion dollar programs borders on the insane. And this isn’t even a well thought out plan.
Time to stop the pretense and the lies. We’re being led by a Ponzi government. And if it doesn’t stop the whole thing will come crashing down around our ears. For all of us.
Craig’s letter is clear and to the point. Agree or we vote your asses out, period. Dem or Republican–Gone!
Wow!!! Thanks Craig! You did your homework on this one.
This is an absolutely horrible bill to support and single-payer will not work! Can anyone with half a brain read the reports coming out of Canada, England, France, Australia and others about how their programs are going broke, and they don’t even have near the population we have! We need to cut the waste in Medicaid, to help cover those who can’t afford the cost of health insurance( and I know all about this, as I was in this position twice in my life), we need to enable people to carry their plans from one job to another, and reciprocity across state lines for more available plans, tort reform limitations, i.e. caps or loser-pays, and health savings accounts folks can set up with 100% deductibles with health costs on tax forms. Wouldn’t all this help a great deal, without “remaking” our entire health care system?!
Here is what I don’t get: how come the advocates of 47mill uninsured, a number which includes illegals and those who could afford to have insurance but decided they didn’t need it, get to dictate what the rest of the population, some 250 million people, should get? As far as I can see, the majority do want reform, but I don’t see a consensus on single payer at all.And having been in a single payer system before, I couldn’t be more opposed to it.
I lived in those systems. The cost is enormous. The systems are operating beyong their gigantic budget permanently. They are in state of permanent bankruptcy. And the care is average at best.
Most of the time, on top of an ENORMOUS primium built-in your pay check, you end-up paying out-of-pocket to go in parallel private systems to avoid delays, substandard care, minimum medication, short and time rationed doctor visits, etc.
Yeh, if you think health care is expensive now, wait till you see the gov dictated bills!!!
“…care is average at best.”
According to what criteria? Infant mortality; life expectancy; and availability of treatment to population? Please be more specific with your claims, including backing these up with links to credible evidence.
I did too, FrenchNail, for over 20 years. Americans have no idea what happens when the money disappears…and it will disappear. The laughable thing is that single payer systems are now going into “supplemental” insurance coverage, while the US wants to go into single payer as the cure of all its ills.Single payer works reasonably well in the small Scandinavian Countries, but get to Countries of 40/60/80million people and the troubles start. Can you imagine a Country like ours with 300 million people? If they really want to make comparisons, proponents of single payer should take Russia as their model, which with a population of circa 125 million people is the closest to the US, then double both the good and the bad (mostly bad) in the russian system.Instead, we get lectured on how wonderful single payer is for Sweden or Finland…please!
I’ve heard this stated another way… If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it is free!
That’s a nice catchphrase, which offers no solutions to the fact that healthcare costs are rising much faster than inflation.
No, but people use more of what is considered to be ‘free’. Heck, you can lump me in that category as well! My family has been to the urgent care center three times in the past few weeks – once for strep throat on a Sunday afternoon, another for a finger badly smashed in a door (turned out to have a fracture – but no treatment needed) and finally for a foreign body in an eye/ scratched cornea. In all but the last case, the appointment could have waited for the next day – but the relatively small difference in our copay and the fact that I wouldn’t have to take a day off of work made the trip to urgent care worthwhile. If the cost had been $200 rather than the $50 per trip, I might very well have waited.
The argument is often made that we are paying a lot of $$ for people to be seen in the emergency room for non-critical conditions that could wait until the next day or be seen in a ‘regular’ doctor’s office. I won’t argue with that at all, and would expect there to be significant savings if every currently uninsured person had ready access to doctors under normal office conditions. But what often goes unstated is that when the cost is low, people use more of a service.
I am absolutely not saying that people should forego medical care because they can’t afford it. But I believe that where possible, people should pay more of the ‘everyday’ medical costs and save insurance for catastrophic expenses. I also think that low-cost options should be readily available for the everyday medical expenses – physicians’ assistants doing throat cultures, giving immunizations, etc.
Health insurance today is more like ‘prepaid medical care’ than it is insurance.
My argument is none of the kind. My argument is that insurance should go away. I don’t need any middleman to tell me what I can and cannot have. You don’t want the government intervening and I don’t want insurance companies intervening, either. Whatever distinction you can make truly lacks in substantive difference. Hospitals should be, by law, non-profit. People will still get paid but no more excesses. Same with Pharmaceuticals. If some asshat wants to make enormous profits, let them sell used cars or Windows operating systems or sell phony securities on the internet. Healthcare is too central and too important an issue to leave to people whose only concern is the bottom line.
Sorry, but unbridled capitalism has no place in healthcare.
Nice Job!!
I had gone the other way, adding up the Selling, General & Administrative Expenses of the eight largest publicly held insurers and got $30 billion a year. Money spent that adds nothing to medical care except the theraputic effect of watching that cute duck in the TV commercials.
I see Obama is going to hold a nationwide speech for elementary-school children a week from today, is this going to be a new pitch for Obamacare?
This man is scary, what the hell is all this about they have even sent out guild lines to teachers on this as to how to prepare the kids for this event.
I read the guidelines – nothing about balance of power or the three branches of government. Ask kids “who is president right now?” and “What does it take to be president?”
Ahhh more ego-stroking. Loving the youth and hating the old have been patterns with this guy from waaayy back. Now the college kids are getting sick of him, so he’s going to the little kiddies.
Nice post, and thanks for the numbers!
I agree that it is the “profit motive” that is crippling our healthcare system. In my opinion, the availability of excellent physicians, hospitals, clinics, medical equipment, etc., in the US well exceeds that of other developed countries. Our problem is poor accessibility due to high costs levied to insure continued obscense profits by the insurance industry.
tarma,
I would argue that the profit motive is a big part of WHY the US has the availability of excellent physicians, hospitals, clinics, and medical equipment.
That is a “fact” not in evidence.
objection sustained
I didn’t state is as a fact. Half of the arguments stated here are not fact – only opinion.
It is probably safe to say, though, that at least some percentage of doctors (or potential doctors) would not become doctors were it not for the high salaries. And how to explain the fact that in some areas of the country it is difficult to find a provider who accepts Medicare – primarily because of the low reimbursement rates and paperwork hassles?
Without a profit motive, who is to say what medical equipment or drugs would or would not have been invented? I am sure that at least some portion of them would have been due to governmental funding and research – but how much?
Sorry, AZ, but the Hippocratic oath recognizes no profit motive. So either the AMA lives up to it or looses it as an oath. Sorry, but health is not a business one wants to get into if they want to retain the ability to “crow” about their “duty to humanity”. You cannot say as much while robbing people of their entire life’s savings in that pursuit.
Lost a comment here. Can an administrator please extricate it?
Nice post, and thanks for the numbers!
I agree that it is the “profit motive” that is crippling our healthcare system. In my opinion, the availability of excellent physicians, hospitals, clinics, medical equipment, etc., in the US well exceeds that of other developed countries. Our problem is poor accessibility due to high costs levied to insure continued obscene profits by the insurance industry.
I agree and would add that administrative overhead in the form of specious positions such as that once occupied by Me-Chelle Oblahblah are a lingering cause. There are too many chiefs and far too few workers. You know–bureaucracy, that thing which the neocons constantly bitch about concerning the government but not in private enterprise, where it is apparently OK, because it employs their useless, non-productive friends.
One of the factoids that caught my eye, Ferd, is the the UKs health industry/bureaucracy is the 3rd largest in . . . the world.
And the UK’s population is fraction of ours.
I don’t know. But I do not think we have the plan yet that fits the United States with a population of 300 million. And I’ve read that the Canadian system is in serious fiscal difficulty. No utopias, despite what Michael Moore would have us believe.
Although I dispise how the insurance companies operate and gouges the sick in this country, the grass is not always greener.
If we are indeed the nation of innovation, we should be able to do better than copying flawed systems.
And frankly, I think we can. But we need an Administration with the will to work this through and then sell the plan with math that is sound and works.
If they did that? Then screw the opposition.
But so far? They don’t have anything that makes sense, even to me. And I’m a Dem.
Thanks, Craig, for an excellent template. I will send a version of this today to every politician in TN, if need be.
Isn’t Mark the poster who only comes here to criticize Hillary?
Why are you, his mom, sad?
“She” posted this yesterday (It was a hoot):
Comment by mark connette’s Sad Mom | 2009-08-31 20:32:38
Sorry folks for my son’s inappropriate commenting. Since he was dropped on his tiny little head at the tender age of 37, he’s been even worse than before. He sees things that aren’t there and doesn’t see things that are, which explains the many lumps on his head from approaching tree branches, telephone poles, and my hand.
Again, my apologies.
Mrs. Connette
ha ha ha ha!
I do agree with you that the brakes need to be put on the current health care reform bills; it is to rushed to be trusted for one thing.
But I am not for a single-payer system, so I can’t agree to send the letter you drafted.
I am for identifying what needs to be reformed, then work on actually doing the reformation. This rushing through of bills that aren’t even read or definitive is total insanity.
I thought this would be of interest to most of you.
Courtesy of Georgia Congressman Tom Price, here is a quick guide to Obama’s biggest lie about the health care reform legislation currently in play on the left side of Congress:
…[P]erhaps the biggest whopper is this repeated insistence by the President that you can keep your plan if you like it under the Obama system. Just as a White House aide was forced to admit, the President’s words shouldn’t be taken literally.
President Obama said in New Hampshire: “Under the reform we’re proposing, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.” *, **, ***, **** ,*****, ******
* Claim not valid after five years as all health care plans must then meet a new federal definition for a “qualified” health care plan. (Section 102(b), H.R. 3200)
** Claim not valid if you rely on a Health Savings Account (HSA) as the construct for these plans is outlawed in the bill (Section 122 (c)(3), H.R. 3200)
*** Claim not valid if you choose to make any changes to your employer-provided plan or get a different plan in the next five years, as doing so would trigger the mandate to have a government approved plan. (Section 102(c), H.R. 3200)
**** Claim not valid if your insurance company makes any additions to your private, individual plan (such as including more people or adding a newly found cure for cancer), as doing so would trigger the mandate to have a government approved plan. (Section 102(a), H.R. 3200)
***** Claim not valid if your employer finds it cheaper to dump you on the government plan rather than pay for care. (Section 412, H.R. 3200)
****** Claim not valid after the federal government envelops the private market as it has done with Medicare, leaving only a government option on the table. (Common Sense)
We need the insurance companies regulated and leave the rest alone. They should not be able to dump you if you actually use your plan; deny coverage for pre-existing conditions; deny allowing buying outside your state; deny care your physician verifies as necessary; make premiums affordable and stop the obscene CEO salaries. Maybe they should all be non-profit. But I don’t want our delivery of health care changed.
As a matter of fact, I don’t want any changes made while this administration and congress is in office. None of them are trustworthy. We can’t let them do unto us what they won’t do unto themselves.
Agree Martha, and further I would say, I already have parents and am a functioning adult, I do not nor will not ever agree to have the government act in the stead of my family, thank you.
I agree with you, too, Martha. We, the People must speak forcefully on this issue. No to That One; No to Insurance companies; and no to the status quo.
I’d also like to see self-employed / private practitioner people be able to buy into group policies at large insurance companies. Maybe insurance does need to be separated from the workplace. You can get a better deal on a policy at a large job, because the pool is very large – but buying individually, it’s incredibly exhorbitant. There’s just no good reason people can’t buy into the larger plans, become part of a large pool, and pay a fair price!
Sorry, but count me out!
I would rather take my chances with an insurance company than put my health in the hands of a government pencil-pusher!
When do they take over coverage of our homes or autos? Insurance companys profit there as well, otherwise why exist.
Why not address the needs of the uninsured first? The answer is that many of those could be receiving coverage now, and I would rather they at least showed some good faith that they will carry part of the burden!
A bureaucrat is a bureaucrat. That one works for an insurance company and the other works for the government is a distinction lacking any substantive difference. Until the electorate understands that simple truth, we’ll never get anything other than glib bullshit from both sides.
“Every other modern country in the world has single payer in one form or another: they all work much better than ours and cost half as much to run.”
It is not even worth having a discussion with you since you have no facts to support anything. The fact that you could look up profits of healthcare insurance companies means absolutely zippo. They are public companies in a free enterprise economy. In Eco 101 you learn that people are allowed to make as much money as they can. In your socialist world they cannot.
Your friend Obama is trying to nationalize most of the country’s GDP in an unprecedented power grab. Fortunately the majority of people in this country are not in favor of any form of socialism like you are and Obama’s approval numbers are plummeting.
If you like other country’s healthcare system so much then move there. For the 80% of us who like the healthcare we currently have kindly stay away from it.
As far healthcare for those who do not have it and do want it there are many other productive ways of accomplishing it without killing out current healthcare system – it’s just that Obama and left wing Democrats do not want to hear it. The fastest way to ruin the high quality of healthcare in this country is to go to a government single payer system like they have in Canada and the U.K. Ask them how things are going? Better yet – move there.
Sorry, but insurance companies are just as bad as any government with the bureaucracy they enable and the complete lack of accountability they operate under. I’ve been around the block too many times to buy into the “insurance companies are our friend” routine.
And if these companies are *so* great, why are they lining up at That One’s trough?
Some of us understand that our Fratboy Prexy and the insurance companies are on the same page and as such are just as bad, if not worse.
Then you fix the problems – but don’t create problems that do not exist.
We’ve all had problems with healthcare insurance companies but it nothing compared to the sheer incompetence of anything that is government run.
But to go to a government run single payer system is something that a huge majority of Americans realize will ruin the healthcare system we already have.
And I am tired of hearing the pathetic denegration of doctors by Obama and left wing loons who have no idea what they are talking about. Let the author of this post get a serious health condition and try and take care of it in one of his single payer government run healthcare countries. He’ll be running back to the U.S. in a week.
Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing Obama lie and denegrate everything about this country – and it’s only 7 months.
In case you weren’t aware, I am not and never have been a supporter of That One. Your post insinuates that I am. Well, let me return the favor. I think you are a bushbot who only comes here to whine about anything that doesn’t line up with your business-is-great-at-all-costs mentality.
I’m not so dense as to not understand that there is a middle road, one never taken by extremists that doesn’t require direct government intervention but that also does require some regulation. Your system isn’t working. I pay more an more very year for less and less, which apparently is OK by you. Well, I’m here to inform you it isn’t and I’m not going to listen to adhere to your little corporate dog-and-pony show any more than I’m going to adhere to the crap coming out of DC.
You see, I reserve the right to criticize insurance companies for their greed just as much as you find it necessary to defend it.
Your right to support the fleecing of the American public ends where my pocketbook begins.
Well said. Ferd.
Thanks for the vote of support, Craig, and I’m with you four-square on this issue. This is no longer a wedge issue or fodder for the extremists. I am a centrist who has had quite enough of the pinheads occupying the fringes who insist on the failure of any compromise because of their anal-retentive nature or inability to get along with others. I have been paying through the nose for far too long for these dogmatic Richard Weeds to any longer have a say. It is time to drag the extreme right and left screaming and kicking to the altar of centrism. I am so over the petulant whining. You are right and I am going to put my representatives on notice. My vote does count.
I agree with you 100%.
I pay over $2000 per month but will end up paying more with Obamcare because my healthcare will be taxed. In addition, the government single payer system will drive other healthcare insurance companies out of business because government will drive down rates because the government does not have to show any profit and can/will go into debt for years to come. That will result in doctors being paid far less than they are now while doing nothing about their exposure to malpractice insurance and lawsuits.
Your Obamcare will lead to the failures as already seen in Canada and the U.K.
There is another way that does not require the government do anything but allow greater competition as well as industry co-ops for small businesses and independent payees.
Berfle if you want socialism go move to a country that already has it and knock yourself out.
I believe the lack of many years of legislation over the insurance industry is directly part of the problematic situation we are left with today with health care. Not all of any one participant is wholly responsible; we are as people, for those who seek health care when it isn’t needed, thus abusing the system, the doctor’s who are incompetent , yet lie, the insurance companies who deny what a person has already paid for and the hospital that would charge 10.00 for a band-aid; all are complicit. It is irresponsible to try to amend these problems by stepping in, and grabbing away certain cherry picked areas. Think of it this way; when I donate to a campaign it is not ever going to be in an amount that will even cause my name to be recalled by the politician. However, if I am xyz group related in some way to the medical industry, I have sway if I pour millions of dollars to give you what you want, which is the power of political office. Doesn’t seem quite moral to me, to be allowed to lobby health care.
And if you think that health insurance companies are makng too miuch money and could charge less, then start a healthcare insurance company yourself. You can’t? Of course not. There are too many restrictions for competition state to state. Allow more competition, open up cross state competition, and you will see healthcare insurance rates go down quickly and profits reduced to better levels.
BS.
B.S.? The answer I would expect from someone who clearly has no clue. So it not worth having a discussion with you. Fortunately the large majority of Americans like the healthcare they have and will not let loons ruin it.
LMAO. You are so functionally clueless, you had to look it up. Your posts sound just as extreme as anything an obamabot can post. Try moving to a point just lightly to the left of Francisco Franco, would you please?
As for loons, that you are enamored of Insurance companies that raise rates at the drop of a hat makes you a loon. Frankly, I’m tired of lining the pockets of robber barons, governmental or otherwise. Real healthcare reform begins with strict oversight of those greedy bastards.
“I’m tired of lining the pockets of robber barons, governmental or otherwise. Real healthcare reform begins with strict oversight of those greedy bastards.”
Said like a true socialist. Next comes redistribution of wealth. Clearly you never started or ran a successful business. Clueless.
You don’t have a clue hokma; for you, it’s just trying to get under Ferd’s skin, and you are obvious. If you read his posts and weren’t so bent on trying to find a way to post just for insults sake; you would never make such a pathetic attempt to label him as the very thing he isn’t.
Said like a true fool.
Very constructive comment. Clueless.
I agree, Hokma. Most people do not realize how much government interference there is right now–the fact that it’s called a “free” market is a joke that not many people get.
You’re right.
If you look at other industries that were de-regulated (airline and telephone) it shows that eliminated government over-regulation does open comptetion and lowers costs.
The government option people have no case study that works.
I agree with Frenchnail. The US should come up with it’s own version of healthcare for all people. I experienced a US government run healthcare system from the late 1950’s through the late 1970’s while I was married to a person in the US Army. I could write pages about the terrible care we received after long waits. The only request I had of my husband when he retired and was employed by a business was to get private health insurance. There is no comparison between the care received at a military facility and that received at a civilian facility. The fact that my first husband died of a heart attack after visiting the clinic at the Pentagon twice in one week does color my opinion of government health care. He was diagnosed with muscle spasms and was not sent to Walter Reed for a stress test when he had all classic systems of a heart condition. Talk about rationing.
We need reform, but not a government run system. No single payer or government option. Insurance and tort reform and technology applications that will stop the fraud and inefficiencies in the system are places where we should start.
Tort reform is but a euphemism for another right taken away. The preamble beings with “We the People” and not “We the Insurance Companies”. As I’ve said often, I’ll give up my right to sue when the insurance companies give up the lawyers they hide behind. Are you game for that one or are you just another lawyer basher with a hidden agenda?
Drat-that should read, “preamble begins…”.
Mea culpa
But Ferd, isn’t it possible to have a tort reform that puts a fair limit on amount of damages? So that we could still sue, but we couldn’t expect to get 5x the amount of money we would have made in our entire life? Or maybe the answer is to not have damages decided by juries anymore, but by judges? (maybe that would be jumping from the frying pan into the fire, I don’t know!)
My understanding is that it raises doctors’ malpractice insurance, which is passed on to us. That’s what I’m thinking about.
Scout is a doctor – has she ever posted on this subject? Maybe she could confirm or deny the “chain” of huge lawsuits – higher malpractice insurance – higher health care costs passed on….? I just read it somewhere, and that’s what is making me think we should have tort reform – but certainly not take our right to sue away….
One-half of one-percent is the number I’ve seen in terms of dollars. It seems that attorneys are the scapegoats except when they defend insurance companies–then they’re OK. I have to stand by my comment–insurance companies should have no more rights than citizens. Frivolous lawsuits should be determined by a judge or jury and not by idiots occupying the halls of Congress or by lobbyists who live off selling crap to said idiots.
For want of a functioning Spamminator, a post was once again lost. I used the word idiot in the same sentence as Congress, which I suppose is a faux pas that rivals the use of the word bullshit.
I’m sorry. What I *really* meant was those of the single-digit IQs who populate the halls of power in DC and the lobbyists who sell them crocks of manure for their dining pleasure.
Can someone please extricate my comment?
Third try (spamminator):
For want of a functioning Spamminator, a post was once again lost. I used the word
i d i o t
in the same sentence as Congress, which I suppose is a faux pas that rivals the use of the word bullshit.
I’m sorry. What I *really* meant was those of the single-digit IQs who populate the halls of power in DC and the lobbyists who sell them crocks of manure for their dining pleasure.
Can someone please extricate my first comment?
Another clueless comment. Any idea how much doctors pay for malpractice insurance? Do you know why? Any idea what doctors and hospitals add sometimes unnecessary procedures and tests that add to medical costs? No of course you don’t.
They do it to limit their exposure when some sleezebag lawyer and sleezbag get-rich-quick client sue doctors and hospitals for no good reason and get big money settlements. THAT is why you need tort reform. But why should you know that?
It is obvious that with all the change that the administration has wanted to do; they have indeed overlooked one very important fact; it is not in our nature to embrace change, easily.It is pure folly to have political aspirations, that serve the self under the pretense of the good of all. People are not as stupid as the government would like to think. We are also suspicious by nature of the thing called change. This isn’t a bad thing at all; rather it is necessary as to circumvent and ferret out all the problems with a proposed change that will affect the people. Fools errands, that’s all I see.
” the administration has wanted to do; they have indeed overlooked one very important fact; it is not in our nature to embrace change, easily.”
Ok, my US Government and US History classes were long ago and far away – but I seem to recall that our system was set up to go fairly slowly….? That’s why we have checks and balances (or are SUPPOSED to, anyway), and it’s why we have the 3 co-equal branches of government. Well, I guess it’s also part of the reason we don’t have a dictator and do have voting – so that changes happen in keeping with the natural changes in the voting public. Am I remembering this right…?
You are remembering correctly Lorac. What I am saying is they are trying to do too much too quickly, with a bill that is at best, very poorly written. However the vote of one gaining does not signify we agree to how these changes will take place.
Here is the address for a survey being taken by the RNC asking question from we the people,about HC concerns, not telling we the people what is good for us.
http://www.partnerorganizations.com/r.asp?U=21209
Excellent letter. Will be posting it on my blog tomorrow morning for even more distribution
Excellent letter!
From what I understand (and I’m admittedly no expert), individual state mandates have helped to drive up the cost of insurance. Each state mandates that insurers cover various procedures, services, etc. This is a reason why there isn’t more competition and therefore more insurance products from which consumers can choose. Mandates don’t sufficiently take into consideration the widely-varied needs of healthcare consumers.
Another huge problem that’s driving up our healthcare spending is that Americans essentially subsidize prescription drug costs in many other countries. Is it then any wonder that their per capita healthcare costs are less than ours? American pharmaceutical companies have developed wonder drugs that’ve increased the quality and longevity of life — but why should we in the US pay so much more for them in order that drug companies can maintain their world-wide market share? I don’t want to hinder the pharmaceutical industry’s ability to develop wonder drugs. But I don’t want to continue to subsidize the French, English, Canadians, etc. either. I haven’t really thought this through but perhaps instead of universal care that insinuates itself into every aspect of the healthcare industry, maybe our government should instead consider some kind of universal prescription drug coverage which would give it parity with the rest of the world when it comes to bartering for prices.
SO in my view as the first big steps, effective healthcare reform should take an entirely different approach than our legislators have chosen. I think reform should work to greatly increase insurance options, and also lower drug prices.
Another big costs is sending people to emergency rooms for non-emergencies.
Here in San Francisco they implemented more clinics and got people a “medical home” (one clinic which holds your records so you don’t have to give your entire history every time you see a doctor) so they wouldn’t clog the emergency rooms. It has saved a lot of money.
Yep, I’ve said the same thing on other healthcare topics here at NQ. Using ERs for primary care definitely has to be dealt with. And universal care apparently isn’t the solution, as I’ve read that in MA (for instance) a very significant number of people still use ERs for primary care.
Yes – a big part of this program in SF was reaching out to low-income communities (let’s face it, immigrants, some illegal) and coaxing them into the clinics. The first one was in Chinatown. It took time for them to trust the clinic. But now they go there for checkups, etc.
Some of them pay the fine where they can opt out too.
“private healthcare insurance has to go.”
Do you mean the govt will make private healthcare illegal? Sorry, no way. Too much govt power. That’s a police state. Why not ban cigarette manufacturers? Ban high fructose. Ban Snapple. Ban liquor. Ban sex. Escalate the war on drugs. In theory, all these could reduce healthcare costs.
The problem is the power, not the target of the power. Corporations, criminals, drug dealers, sleeper cels, whomever else you may not like — the answer is not unlimited govt control.
If you mean Medicare for all, and private insurers just wither away because they suck, that’s another thing. But you dismiss the public option.
I think you’ve got it backwards. This ’single payor’ spectre is killing the public option, not vice versa.
Single Payer Healthcare is the Public Option. This would be brought in gradually and in the next few years Government would undercut private insurance moving everyone into the Public Option.
You misunderstand, the quote was “private INSURANCE has to go”, not private healthcare.
I am not suggesting government control of all healthcare and, yes, I think Medicare for all is a good start.
No, the so-called ‘public option’ is a just a sham put up to appease the single-payer crowd. It was never intended to be a functional alternative. Look closely at the legislation and you will see that the ‘public option’ had no practical viability, in fact the ‘public option’ turns out to be public access to FEHB, which is just another variation on a private insurance controlled program.
Single payer is the only choice that will succeed. If you want to do that by starting with Medicare for all, I’m onboard.
“private INSURANCE has to go”
Do you mean the govt will make private health insurance companies illegal?
This is called getting the nose of the camel under the tent.
Just read on Drudge that Obama is not going for the Public Option. He says he is looking forward to a fight with Liberal Dems. Seems like Obama is running after the parade now that its passing him by.
Politico says he will lay out his new strategy in a (wait for it) “major speech.”
Its always his new strategy because he couldn’t care less if the Democrats lose Congress.
We cannot afford Single Payer Healthcare at this time because Obama and the Democrats have put us 9 trillion in debt over the next 10 years. At least when Truman proposed Single Payer Healthcare after WW2 he also proposed training for thousands of new doctors. Obama has proposed nothing of the sort. Because Obama is incompetent and Healthcare is so expensive RATIONING will be the result.
But wait a minute, Obama just announced that he will not demand a Public Option. Pelosi said that without the Public Option the Dems will lose 100 Liberals who will not vote for a bill without a Public Option. He is all excited now because he relishes a fight with Liberal Dems. So in addition to losing Independents and Moderate Dems Obama will now lose Liberals as well.
All he had to do was withdraw the bill and bring out a bill from the White House which would state his goals. Instead he will make yet another lofty speech which says nothing.
On that, he is consistent.
It is so odd how he is so risk-averse until he finds out what is popular. It is also so very tiring. That we can’t laugh at him is also tiring. There is something about this youthful president and his beautiful young family that makes me very tired. If a Republican comes out in 2012 who can make us laugh at ourselves and laugh at herself or himself, Obama could be in trouble.
I said that exact thing to my husband. The man is a misery and we are not allowed to laugh. It is tiring. I think I understand why Palin is so popular. She tells the truth and she’s funny. I think he will be in trouble in 2012 because like Carter he depresses people. More people are on anti-depressants then ever before. Last week Obama said Homeownership would no longer be part of the American Dream. I know we will laugh about this one day — its too over the top to be taken seriously for very long.
Remember in Islam there is no fun…… just saying
Haha – this struck a cord with me because my blood pressure seems to spike every time the Great One opens his mouth to speak. Indeed, “Obamacare” equals the health care Americans need in order to heal the ills caused by the Obama presidency. “Prozac Nation” has taken on a new meaning…..
CBSNews poll:
Sigh. So glad to know I’m not alone on this.
AF Catfish — The line that got me was that he will not stop The House from adding the Public Option to their bill. Seems he doesn’t care whether this gets passed or not as long as his numbers go up.
I believe that he has been spoken to by the Congressional Leaders who are unable to get a consensus. He will let this bill languish and come out with a bill in a couple of months. In the meantime, the Libs are going to be furious because they thought they had the numbers to push through Single Payer.
He is not for the Public Option – but he “will not stop” the Congress from adding the Public Option?
Both Ways Barack strikes again. So transparent.
I don’t agree with single-payer based on personal experience. In the UK and Australia, there are chronic shortages of healthcare facilities and providers, so people save up or take out private insurance to be able to go to private providers.
Personal friends have been affected by this, having to wait a week for a doctor to look at spinal xrays, having to reschedule a dental procedure because the dentist was transferred by the state to another facility and all of the other dentists were booked, patient air transfer services had to fly a patient 800 miles to find a bed for them at a hospital ICU, etc.
So, I could envision two scenarios: The first, baseline public health, supplemented by private insurance, is what many countries have today. The second would involve simply making all insurance companies non-profits and requiring them to accept a certain percentage of the uninsured (in exchange for payment by the government) for a basic government health plan, with the percentage determined by their revenue vs. the rest of the industry. On the latter, I would provide incentives to people who maintain their health with regular checkups, vaccines, etc. — lowered co-pay, coverage for more types of services, etc.
There is a reason I’d base the number of uninsured people “given” to each insurance company on their revenue number. If they become non-profit, then clearly, one incentive is to start distributing more of the revenue surplus to employees in order to avoid “making a profit” that year. In contrast, if the company was given a disincentive for increasing its revenue, it might focus more on minimizing revenue, which might (sigh, economics is voodoo) help drive down the cost of health care by reducing the price the “market” is willing to pay for it.
Don’t get me wrong: single-payer would be awesome if resources were unlimited. It’s an ideal. It just doesn’t seem practical.
An email survey I got from Michael Steele RNC Chairman. Has the DNC ever asked anyone? I would say that is a NO. They didn’t listen in the primary and stole the show for Obama, why stop there when they can steal the whole USA?
If you would like to participate contact the RNC at
Alert@partnerorganizations.com I am thinking that they will send you the survey, or go to their website and it is sure to be there. Or copy this and send it to your states representatives.
Republican National Committee
Future of American Health Care Survey questions:
1. Do you believe that the state of America’s health care system is in crisis?
Yes
No
Undecided
2. What is your biggest concern regarding health care in America as it is today?
Cost
Quality
Availability
Other:
3. Do you believe that your health care decisions should be made by you and your doctor, and not government bureaucrats in Washington, D.C.?
Yes
No
Undecided
4. Do you believe it is right for the federal government to use age and life expectancy as criteria for determining access to health care?
Yes
No
Undecided
5. Estimates show that the Democrats’ plan could cost more than $1.6 trillion dollars. Do you believe that America can afford this added debt when the deficit has already reached record levels?
Yes
No
Undecided
6. If you have private health insurance, please rate your level of satisfaction with your coverage:
Excellent
Good
Satisfactory
Unsatisfactory
N/A
7. Rationing of health care in countries with socialized medicine has led to patients dying because they were forced to wait too long to receive treatment. How concerned are you that this would be inevitable in the U.S. under the Democrats’ plan?
Extremely Concerned
Mildly Concerned
Not Concerned
Don’t Care
8. Do you approve of the Republican plan to give small businesses tax breaks to cover the cost of their employees’ heath care insurance?
Yes
No
Don’t know enough about it yet
9. Do you believe the federal Government can provide better health insurance than your current plan?
Yes
No
Undecided
Not applicable
10. Over 120 million Americans currently receive health care insurance through their employers. Should this private sector health coverage be preserved in any health care reform plan?
Yes
No
Undecided
11. Does it concern you that the Democrats tried to ram health care legislation through Congress THIS SUMMER to limit the American people’s opportunity to evaluate it?
Extremely Concerned
Mildly Concerned
Not Concerned
Don’t Care
12. Does it concern you that the liberal media has gone to unprecedented levels to only give Obama’s views on health care reform and no one else’s?
Extremely Concerned
Mildly Concerned
Not Concerned
Don’t Care
This is a great idea, tzada — thanks so much for posting the actual survey. I couldn’t find the survey on the GOP site, though I did find an overview of the Repubs position on health care at:
http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/HealthCare.htm
(I’m Independent as of August 2008, and am thus willing to consider reasonable proposals from both sides of the aisle; haven’t heard much “reason” from any Dems except from the Blue Dogs lately).
I will copy the survey and send it along to my reps, just to make myself feel that I’m doing something, however much of a drop in the bucket it may be. Thanks again!
I just cannot believe after everything you have seen this August that ANYONE still thinks that America wants government involved in their health care!
Do you know that snuck away in sec. 2521 is the MANDATORY implantation of devices under the skin of EVERY American that contain all personal information, and medical records.
Our ledgislators, or in reality the Apollo group and Emmanuel who mostly wrote the health care bill, only communists and eugenists, nothing to worry about, will not be trusted by me EVER!
I will NEVER back anything run by the government. And I will NEVER stand still for sheeple who want to turn this great country into a marxist utopia which we have all seen throughout history works so well.
People with these ideas continue to amaze me.
Insurance must remain under state control. Once we start crossing state lines it will fall under the commerce clause and the Feds can step in at will. Right now anything they pass can be challenged as unconstitutional because it is not under the scope of the powers delegated to them by the states and the people to regulate health care.
And it NEVER should be!
Bingo Carmen. It looks like the states will be what we fall back on. If they fail us then it will fall to we the People. This Tea Party Ad sums things up very well. Enjoy and take heart.
Tea Party Commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkmxG5Ta3N0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcanadafreepress%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ephp%2Farticle%2F13532&feature=player_embedded
This resulted from a Mom in Alabama asking her high school son to help with a commercial for the Tea Party she was involved in organizing. Boy, does it slam the message home. Very impressive.
Here is her note:
“I asked Justin if he could help me make a commercial for my group’s Tea Party. He sat down at the laptop for about an hour, and then brought this to me and asked, ‘is this okay, Mom?’ After I finished watching it, my stomach was in my throat.
Everyone that I have sent it to has really enjoyed it, so I wanted my friends to see it. I am so proud!”
A very powerful video…turn up the sound & sit back…!!!
Hey, live bold!
Heart attack? Call Uncle!
Interstate crash causing injury and loss of life? Call Uncle!
Mutt snags the UPS guy? Call Uncle!
Yeah, I’m being sarcastic, but be very careful about firing all those insurance agents!
Would anyone in their right mind turn over any more power to a regime who would issue something like this?
Obama’s Team Crosses the Rhetorical Line
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/09/01/obamas-team-crosses-the-rhetorical-line/
Obama’s Green Jobs Czar Van Jones: Republicans Are “A**holes”
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/02/obamas_green_jobs_czar_van_jones_republicans_are_aholes.html
One person in the bottom left corner of the crowd looks very much like that Democratic operative who damaged the Democratic HQ. Remember the one that was blamed on HC opponents?
Ferd has posted his opposition to tort reform many times. I used to throw that feature into comments I’ve made about healthcare. But after more research, I have a different view. Outrageous awards for medical tort aren’t as common as thought from what I’ve read so far, and like he said they account for less of increased spending than most people realize. Premiums some physicians pay for malpractice insurance seems to be quite another matter though that needs to be addressed.
Regarding my earlier post, I don’t propose that government, whether it’s state or federal, butt out of healthcare completely. But mandates have caused a drift towards comprehensive coverage (alcoholism coverage, birth control coverage, etc., etc.) that has caused premiums to become unaffordable for too many people. Some feel allowing the inter-state sale of health insurance would help to rationalize this. I’d like to hear more from opponents to help us understand the downside.
In any case, government still needs to continue to make sure insurers have the wherewithal (solvency) to uphold their end of the bargain so that consumers can feel secure that healthcare products they buy are sound.
I’ve been reading a lot about healthcare lately and my education is ongoing, so my opinions may change!
FYI-A recent study on torts: regarding Punitive(exemplary) damages.
Source: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1412864#
Medicare has already been told that the yearly cost of living increase will be off the table for the first time since its inception.
Undoubtedly the many billions made by drug and insurance monopolies will become bigger as insurance rates escalate.
Obama has done a bait and switch, has fudged on his promises, and has intentionally been silent so that everyone can make mayhem, control the debate, and he can say…..gosh, er….
What a sellout. What an enoumous lack of leadership. How can Obamatons like Markos over at Kos continue to treat this evasive and dishonest behavior with apologies and tentativeness?