Health Care Opposition is a Bigger Question Than “Stupid Is as Stupid Does”
By LisaB on October 17, 2009 at 12:15 AM in Current Affairs
Calling your opponent in an argument “stupid” has always been a cheap shot, a way to try and end an argument by declaring victory and sauntering away. Someone who is frustrating you by not agreeing to your premise or with your logic surely must be stupid, what else could it be, after all?
We’ve seen a lot of “stupidity” over the past year or so. Stupid, low-information voters in PA, stupid racists in SC, stupid don’t-know-what-is-good-for-them West Virginians, etc. etc. ad nauseum. I’ve lost count of all all the newly discovered stupid people we have in the US.
Apparently, many of us are too stupid to live, but we continue to do so and drive the smart people crazy with all our ridiculous opinions. Most recently, discussing health care reform provokes profound despair in many progressives over the stupidity of people who would dare to oppose such beneficence.
How could these people be so stupid? Don’t they care about others? Why are they so selfish? Can’t they see they’d be better off with this plan? Are they really too stupid to see the benefits?
“Stupid” is pretty much a straw man. It comes from not knowing whom you’re dealing with. You’d be surprised what a “stupid” person can tell you if you don’t assume “smart” is limited to certain types of information. That overall-wearing farmer with the hay in his mouth and the gimme cap might school you on twenty years worth of farming. The “trailer park” trash you disdain might teach you the ins and outs of government programs for children and how to survive on $100 a week. That AA woman on the bus might tell you about how she and a former klansman became friends. The hispanic fellow working nearby could tell you about wire transfers, exchange rates, and making it in a foreign land.
I believe everyone has an area of expertise. The problem is we recognize an embarrassingly small range of skills as culturally and politically worthy. Which brings us back to health care. Why do so many “stupid” people oppose this great plan?
Well, the very best idea I’ve heard on this comes from a woman I don’t usually agree with. Peggy Noonan has a great piece in the WSJ today about what could underlie opposition to “health care reform.”
The Democratic Party and the White House repeatedly suggest that if you are not for the bill or an overhaul, you don’t care about your fellow human beings and you love and support the insurance companies. Actually, no one loves the insurance companies, including the insurance companies.
——–People who oppose a health-care overhaul are not in love with insurance companies. They’re not even in love with the status quo. Everyone knows the jerry-built system of the past half-century has weak points. They just don’t think the current plan will shore them up. They think the plan would create new weak points and widen old ones. They think this because they have brains.
But even that doesn’t get to the real subtext of the opposition. Yes, the timing is wrong—we have other, more urgent crises to face, and an exploding deficit. And yes, a big change in a huge economic sector during economic crisis is looking for trouble.
But a big part of opposition to the health-care plan is a sense of historical context. People actually have a sense of the history they’re living in and the history their country has recently lived through. They understand the moment we’re in.
In the days of the New Deal, in the 1930s, government growth was virgin territory. It was like pushing west through a continent that seemed new and empty. There was plenty of room to move. The federal government was still small and relatively lean, the income tax was still new. America pushed on, creating what it created: federal programs, departments and initiatives, Social Security. In the mid-1960s, with the Great Society, more or less the same thing. Government hadn’t claimed new territory in a generation, and it pushed on—creating Medicare, Medicaid, new domestic programs of all kinds, the expansion of welfare and the safety net.
Now the national terrain is thick with federal programs, and with state, county, city and town entities and programs, from coast to coast. It’s not virgin territory anymore, it’s crowded. We are a nation fully settled by government. We are well into the age of the welfare state, the age of government. We know its weight, heft and demands, know its costs both in terms of money and autonomy, even as we know it has made many of our lives more secure, and helped many to feel encouragement.
But we know the price now. This is the historical context. The White House often seems disappointed that the big center, the voters in the middle of the spectrum, aren’t all that excited about following them on their bold new journey. But it’s a world America has been to. It isn’t new to us. And we don’t have too many illusions about it.
I think Noonan is right. Think of any major activity a person might be involved in: having a child, battling cancer, buying a home, selling a home, starting a business, buying a car, maintaining a car, enrolling a child in school, getting married (unless you’re LGBT), etc. etc. All require involvement with government in some form.
We accept all that because it accrued over time. Generally, people don’t picket the DMV despite the near unanimity in what a pain in the butt dealing with that entity involves. But we’re inured now to that particular annoyance and even make jokes about it.
But most people having that “historical vision” of governmental creep or just a wealth of experience with the DMV are certainly more likely to look askance at a huge government-oriented health care plan. That’s not stupid, that’s logical. So why are all these people “stupid” and not simply skeptical citizens? That’s the easy question - it’s because someone is trying to end the discussion before it really begins.
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The government will have to outsource to the insurance companies. This isn’t about us. It’s about bailing out insurance companies.
We are too deeply in debt with two wars, a huge pork package that just got passed and bailouts. On top of the whole hot mess is the Cash 4 Clunkers. Enough with the spending spree!
And what frosts my old cookies is that instead of getting COLA on our Social Security, we’re now going to get $250. Where oh where is this money coming from?
And speaking of the insurance companies being the enemy, how about the administration that makes a fancy-dancy deal with them before the fact.
Yes, and will the $250 be taxed at year’s end?
of course,,no free lunch ya know
does obama really think that giving seniors $250 will shut us up and make us so greatful that we will happily go along with his ridiculous healthcare plan? he can shove that 250 where the sun dont shine. (it isnt even enough to buy those $500 sneakers his wife wears) he giveth with one hand and take back with the other. (no COLA increase). we are NOT fools and we wont be bought off so cheaply. just because we are old , doesnt mean we are stupid. we may be forgetful sometimes but i can assure you we WILL remember the names of all those reprsentatives who vote for this bill come 2010.
Yes, he does. He’s THAT stupid.
Considering that the people who are in favor of Health care/insurance reform but are opposed to ObamaCare are denounced by Obamacare advocates as being entirely opposed to any reform, that says something about who is really being stupid.
Or maybe simply dishonest.
Coming from the healthcare industry I’m amazed at some of the discussions. Like I haven’t heard the words FSA, HRA, HSA, HIA used once. CDH (consumer directed healthplans) are the current trend.
And there is also talk about buffering the insurance companies about pre-x conditions. A lot of the companies who offer their employees insurance have self funded accounts. So the $ comes directly out of the company’s (or union’s) pockets and the insurance just gets paid for administering the claims.
And if your company offers FSA and you do not participate you are throwing $ away. all plans may not be equal, but you may be able to pay for daycare, copays, coinsurance, deductibles, glasses and many, many other medical services TAX FREE. The money comes out of your paycheck and you submit claims to get 100% of your $ back. So you get a smaller paycheck, but all the $ coming out you get back. By the end of the year you get more money and you also make out better during tax time as everything taken out lowers your taxable income.
I’m a dentist who deals with insurance companies all the time. While I certainly have no love for them, adding a huge layer of government bureaucrats to the system will not improve it. The plan we had the most problem with was the one managed by the state. We eventually dropped it due to the low reimbursement schedule and endless paper work required. We do not turn someone away with pain or infection due to lack of funds.
When I first got out of school I practiced at a clinic that took a prepaid managed care dental plan that covered most procedures at no cost to the patient. Since they knew most of their treatment was “free” the utilization rate was so high we had to ration care by putting people off as long as six to eight weeks for any treatment after they had already waited almost as long for the initial exam. That will happen with health care. Yes, I know some of that happens now but just wait until millions of people think everything is free because the government is paying.
I also had an experience with my health insurance provider when my wife was placed in a high risk category that doubled her premium. We wrote a letter, submitted her doctor’s report and advised them we would take the matter to the insurance commissioner if it was not resolved soon. They eventually cut her premium in half. When the government tells you no, who will you complain to. Good luck.
I had similar experiences with my health insurance company and had the same results. You submit appeals and they will likely submit.
Some insruance companies are better or worse than others, but in general they are all much better than dealing with the government bureaucracy.
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My problem is that The White House isapparently now crawling with lobbyists. Yea,we’re stupid alright. People listened to a man demonize lobbyists for 2 years. “I will not have 1 single lobbyist in my administration”, “the days of lobbyist influence are over in Washington”,”Hillary knows and works with lobbyists”. I actually believe there is a place for some lobbyists.Many of them represent things important to you and me before Congress. But the secrecy and behind closed doors meetings are another matter all together. Sure, Obama is gonna farm out whatever they come up with to contractors andhe’s definitely going to continue the give-away to the pharmacutical industry (no price negotiations, no importing of drugs). Its no different than the contractors we are using as soldiers now. They answer to no one. They are not non-profit,so there goes a chunk of change right there. Their profits will come first. These are some of the things Obama admired about Reagan I bet. I think the unions are finally waking up to the fact that Obama is not their friend. He just uses them like everyone else. Obama considers anyone who is poor to be stupid, otherwise you’d be rich, even if it took cheating, lying and stealing (Rangel).
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I keep wondering when insulting and demeaning the voters became politically astute. It seems a tad dimwitted as a political plan to me. But then most pols and all their little aids and staff, aren’t nearly as smart as they think they are. Smartasses for the most part but smart, as in intellegent, not so much.
The Baucus bill isn’t really a bill at all. It’s the skeleton of a bill with all kinds of hopes for good things. A hope of a good bill coming out of the bunch in charge is a forlorn hope IMO.
I also doubt that anything worthwhile will come out of Nanny Pelosi’s House either. Knowing that she is fiscally irresponsible tells me that whatever she is “fer”, I am pretty sure I will be “agin”. That’s probably due to her pretty well off her whole life and not understanding that if you can’t pay for something, you probably shouldn’t buy it. She’s never had to make that choice and so is oblivious to the down side of spending while nearly bankrupt. Nice for her, very, very bad for a country.
Thank you, LisaB for saying it like it is.
The main reason I am four-square against this Obamanation of a healthcare boondoggle is due to the lack of an objective study of the problem. All we have gotten so far are the concerns of vested interest groups, which is not exactly the most rational way to evaluate any system, much less one that includes billions upon untold billions of dollars at stake. I don’t like the current system but would rather have it than a repackaged program with a new name designed by the very people who would benefit the most.
What they are proposing to foist on us is a system where the insurance companies are replaced by the government. That doesn’t represent reform but just replacing one pointy-haired boss with another, even more ignorant point-haired boss.
It is long past time to do a bottom-up review of the entire healthcare system and the ones doing it should have no vested monetary interest in the outcome–period. Anything else and the system will fail at some point and then we’ll be right back at square one performing yet again the same review but expecting a different outcome. This is patent insanity. Since our current system is so screwed up, I certainly don’t think it is a good thing to have the same ones responsible for that mess having the final decision in any new system.
The one “interest group” that is noticeable by its absence of representation is the constituents (which for the POTUS is supposed to be all citizens).
You are spot on, jwrjr. They should be represented in ANY overhaul of the healthcare system. That’s why I intentionally used the word “vested” interest groups as apposed to “common” interest or “special” interest groups. The way the trolls of both sides fracture the language, I am very careful with my own use of words. I am sick of the equivocation.
Trolls do take what they thought you should have said and criticize you for their re-interpretation - the worst sort of “straw man” argument.
Indeed, but it is even worse–they redefine or re-invent words so that they can claim ultimate ignorance when you call them on it. On another thread, Zippy used the word “good” as an equivocation for competent. I called him on it but… got no response. Sloppy use of words and/or creating fissures in the language are the hallmarks of extremists.
I will call any troll on their use of words from now on because they use them as a poor substitute for reason and more often than not, get away with it.
A representative from Blue Cross was on Fox this morning.
After running the numbers for only one segment of the proposed bill, he concluded that each family of four will be paying $500 more per year, starting in January.
The government should address “common good” issues, but now robs Peter to pay Paul.
The “freebies” won’t exist once our entire economy is destroyed, but I’m stupid!
Had another post hit the spammy hopper. Sending an email now.
Whoosh, Lisa! Says it all in one felled swoop. I, too, typically have problems with Peggy Noonan. I remember when she was waxing poetic about Obama–something that never made sense to me, unless Obama’s faux compliments about Reagan won her over. If that’s the case she’s easy.
However, on this I think she’s on the mark. One of the defining traits of the Progs is their neverending arrogance, so in a way I can understand how they thought Obama was The One. Bill Maher for instance has flatout said the American public is stupid and needs to be dragged to the promised land.
Arrogant? Without a doubt. My in-laws are in their 80s now. They’ve seen all this before. They didn’t like it on the first round; they like it even less now. They don’t have college degrees. But they’re far from stupid or uninformed.
I agree with Noonan. The vast majority of Americans do want healthcare reform. They want a system that works better for everyone. But they don’t care one whit if it’s politically advantageous for the President. And hiding the numbers and particulars do not and will not raise the public’s confidence.
Campaign time is over. Unless Barack Obama is willing to govern, tell the truth and is willing to work for the benefit of the public, his numbers and those of his policies will continue to sink.
That ain’t stupid. It’s reality.
since obaME has outsourced most everything to others while he jet sets around the world, (so much for his being ready on day one..or 2 or 275 )makes me wonder if all this healthcare reform b/s is just another one of his “distractions” to keep us from seeing his true agenda…being president of the world. someone must have told this neophyte idiot that if he goes along and follows orders they will make him king of the world. and he calls us stupid?
The problem with health care reform is that they are grabbing the stick from the wrong end. And they are forgetting the KISS rule.. Keep It Simple, Stupid. What is needed in health care is not “reform” but regulation, consumer friendly regulation. Regulation of the insurance companies, regulation of the hospitals, especially the sort that Michelle Obama worked for, a “not-for-profit” hospital that made $100 million in profit in various years, including the ones when MO worked there. If they eliminate jobs like the one she had, $300,000+ a year for turning people away from the hospital, those funds could go towards patient care. There should be regulation on how much the insurance companies can charge for premiums, on how much hospitals can spend on non-medical staff, on what the drug companies can charge for lifesaving medicines. The drug companies claim the high costs are due to R&D, well, fine. Drugs cost a lot to develop, but who really needs Viagra?? Let them get their costs back on things like Viagra and that cream for growing back eyelashes, and let the drugs that save people be affordable. And the drug companies could save millions by not running ads for drugs on television. After all, nagging your doctor to give you something you saw on TV isn’t the greatest way to deal with a health problem. Especially if your condition isn’t helped by that drug, even if you think it might be from the info on the commercial.
And the best thing about regulation, as opposed to reform, is that it won’t cost as much as the current health care messes coming down the pipe in Congress.
Does anyone remember the old Rube Goldberg cartoons because when I looked over the Baucus bill, that is what I was reminded of, A machine of many parts that went in all directions, pushed here and there but nothing looked as though it fitted together. Crazy, but that is what happens when you are helping one group ie the insurance cos. but trying to make it look as though you are helping another group altogether.
Obama never had a REAL job before the Presidency. The only thing most of the members of Congress are good at is running for office (yeah, we’ll overlook thievery for now.) These are the people who are “designing” a one-size-fits-all no-other-choice healthcare plan for 300 million people who they don’t know and probably would have little regard for if they did. And WE’RE the ones who are “stupid”? Can you say “projection”?
LisaB,
This struck me at the beginning of your post. The knowledge and skills that make a person “worthy” as a politician seem to me to now be exactly the knowledge and skills we should rule out in the politicians we elect.
Do you know how to be two-faced and to talk out of both sides of your mouth? Do you know how to spend gazillion dollars that are not dollars you have earned in any respect? Have you had a lot of book learning and theory learning but no practical experience? Do you live and work in a “community” of only people like you? Are all those people you associate with fat-headed egotists? If you answer “yes” then you are currently a politician and should not be re-elected.
I was only a little girl, but I can remember my father and his friends talking during the 1952 election. They liked Ike because they didn’t like the “egghead” description of Stevenson. My family were mostly those farmers you mentioned earlier. They wanted someone who had practical knowledge.
Later, as I grew up to be somewhat of a bookish egghead myself, I thought a lot about this. At first I was a little hurt that my book knowldege and my education would be held against me if I decided to run for office. But as I got into my studies, I realized that I might be the last person I would vote for if I ran for office. I was interested only in my field.
This is from the Wikipedia article about the ‘52 election:
So this time the Democratic Party rejected a Truman-like straight talker, one who could let the buck stop at her desk for the “intellectual and eloquent [gag me with a spoon] orator” from Illinois. (Too bad the election didn’t turn out like the ‘52 election, IMHO.)
Yes, Obambi is doing nothing to further his great intellectual cause by calling the people he must convince stupid.
Those little mommie’s-basement-living, kool-aid-drinking obots don’t care about the healthcare issue anyway. They just want it to pass without having to work for it because they think it will mean they don’t have to buy insurance, can pay the fine for not buying it, and get their emergency care free. And those “old folks” should HAVE to pay for their care anyway, as far as they are concerned.
We need reform. We need it to be done the right way when it is time to do it the right way. This administration’s and this Congress’s way is not the right way, and this is definitely not the right time.
They nominated the “intellectual and eloquent [gag me with a spoon] orator” from Illinois”? I thought they nominated Obama.
It’s not just health care reform. It’s everything. It’s the theft, the corruption, the fraud, the lack of accountability, and the repetition of all of the above. With each new election, we think we’re getting a new administration; what we get is the repetition of all of the above.
“It’s the lies, stupid.”
It’s this:
They pass a new bill to protect consumers, then they exempt 98% of banks from being subject to the new regulations. It’s just theft, fraud, corruption, and the repetition of all of the above.
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com:80/2009/10/word-of-day-exemptions-98-of-banks.html
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If the townhallers are stupid, then I’m with stupid.
Ever since, Obama made the comment behind closed doors to a group of San Francisco elite about the small-town, bible carrying, gun totin’ people of Pa., I knew Obama was not a “man of the people”. Of course these people were Hillary supporters so insulting them was politically correct. What made matters worse, when the contents of Obama’s speech were made public, the silence on the part of many leaders in the democratic party was deafening. The democratic party has been bought and sold for a few pieces of silver. There will be no true health care reform with this president and this congress. We can only oppose their insidious efforts and then vote them out in 2010 and 2012.