“have you no wisdom thus to despair?”
By Bronwyn's Harbor on November 1, 2009 at 8:00 AM in Current Affairs
(Bumped up from Friday night.)
“[R]ecognizing the last full measure of devotion from these soldiers is the right thing for a President to do,” writes Hot Air’s Ed Morrissey. Curiously, like most pundits, Morrissey believes Obama’s trip to Dover was about a nod to the military in Afghanistan and to Gen. McChrystal.
Then Morrissey adds, “Let’s hope that politics won’t play a part in this recognition at all.” Huh? Why the tiptoeing around the real reason for Obama’s Dover photos? Let’s see this for what it is: After days of bad press about the amount of golf that Obama plays — see NoQuarter stories here and here — Obama needed to stage a photo op that most obliterated that image of him playing the links while soldiers and goverment employees die.
I am not being cynical:
We here at NoQuarter who’ve studied the president like few others know that every move he makes is calculated to burnish his public persona.
His persona had suffered with the stats on how much golf he’s played compared to George Bush, who gave up golf because he felt it disrespectful to the troops.
Like Reverend Amy, I am not a fan of George Bush, but to his great credit, instead of holding photo ops, Bush — very quietly and without fanfare — stayed in touch with the families of those who’d died. Which shows more class, and takes more TRUE time and TRUE devotion, than being photographed with a ramrod stand and rigid salute.
I’m a little surprised that even Hot Air didn’t call Obama on this.
Caveat: Had Obama gone to Dover without the media photographers, I’d respect him a hell of a lot more and I’d believe he did it to honor the troops, not correct his image.
The title is from a favorite poem by James Joyce, “I Hear An Army.”
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Phony is, as phony does.
To defend the disgusting, repellent George W. Bush, who never gave enough of a s**t about any of our soldiers to even send them into battle with proper armor, let alone an honest mission in Iraq, let alone any sort of plan for holding the country after we occupied it, is morally repugnant beyond anything I think I’ve ever read on this site. For the record, I see nothing whatsoever wrong with a president publicly (meaning, with cameras, so the country can see) honoring the loss of our troops, honoring their families and letting the nation know that he is responsible as commander in chief. Ronald Reagan did the same, and with cameras. It’s called taking responsibility, something Bush was too callow and indifferent ever to bother. Their strategy was more, never show up at Dover at all, ever, and ban all cameras, the better to pretend the deaths aren’t happening.
Bush is a pig. Obama is an adult. And this diary is morally twisted beyond words, and an insult to our servicemen and women. Seriously. You should be ashamed of yourself. And anyone with half a brain knows it.
Here’s a picture of Reagan doing this, with cameras:
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/photographs/large/c14159-28a.jpg
I always saw Obama as Reagen II
Raised by Kansas Republicans. Loves the rich
and hustles the poor.
“Raised by Kansas Republicans.”?????? WTF! Obama’s grandparents weren’t Republicans, far from it. They were socialist/communist, the progressives of their day. When they moved to Mercer Island, Wa., they attended a non-denominational church that the locals mockingly called “The Little Red Church” because it was well known that it’s congregation was heavily communist. When in Hawaii, they encouraged a young Barry to hang out with a well known, card carrying communist, Frank Marshall Davis. I could go on and on, but what I really want to know is, where in the Hell did you get your information Nan?
Kansas. In those years everyone in that state was republican, even the Unitarians and especially bankers. Though I never met the family, the odds are very good that they were old-fashioned mid western Republicans.
You are a complete, utter moron.
No wonder you voted for Obama.
Ahem, Tammy–she didn’t as can be seen from her previous comment, i.e.,
Another thing, Reagan was raised by Democrats. He was also a Democrat and didn’t become a Republican until well into his life, when he realized the general foolishness of the Democrat platform.
Reagan was a bought and paid for idiot without an original thought. A ‘brand’ created for mass-consumption to gather votes while benefiting the wealthy. Just like Obambi (see bailout)
The monumental stupidity of your statement may be unsurpassed.
The BIG difference between Sham-WowBama and Bush or Reagan is that his new found concern for our troops is entirely inconsistant with everything else we know about the sniveling, self serving, mendacious, man child.
In the picture you’ve linked to, the grief of Ronald and Nancy is palpable. From the looks on their faces to their body language, it is clear they are deeply moved in the presense of our fallen heroes.
Obama’s rehersed salute, his stiffness, and his general demeanor through this entire shameless photo-op, clearly indicate that he would rather be somewhere else. Playing golf perhaps.
Of course, Obama has set HIMSELF up for this type of criticism. During unscripted moments, he has often revealed his truly petty and disgusting self, so when he is supposedly passionate during his well staged appearances, we know it’s just an act. He’s so invested with his well polished and practiced facade, that he initially created to cover up his warts, that he may actually believe it himself at this point. But just like Ward and June Cleaver could see through Eddie Haskel’s dripping politeness, most of us can spot Obama as the fraud that he is. You botfly, on the other hand, are also so invested in the sham that you refuse or are unable to see it. Maybe this will explain your problem:
” When the co-dependent and the narcissist team-up the result can be catastrophic. Now we have folie à deux. The delusional belief of the narcissist about himself is transmitted and shared by another needy, but ostensibly smart person. The codependent validates and encourages the narcissist’s delusion. As the result, the narcissist becomes bolder, more assertive, more authoritative and more confident. The partnership of the narcissist and the codependent dons their delusion with the mantle of credibility. The codependent will then do everything to persuade others as well. The narcissist’s cause is himself. The codependent will champion that cause. By recruiting others, they find validation for their own belief about the narcissist. Soon the folie à deux becomes folie à trois, then folie à quatre, and when you are a presidential candidate and are followed by a hoard of journalists and cameramen, before you blink there will be folie à plusieurs (madness of many). Recent psychiatric classifications refer to the syndrome as shared psychotic disorder.” –Ali Sina–
I’m sure many on this site can now point to a certain botfly and say to themselves, “How sad”.
That was beautiful.
LMAO. That One isn’t anything approaching an adult. He is a petulant, self-absorbed megalomaniac who envisions himself the second-coming of Lincoln. His answer to every problem is to talk so completely around it that the audience is left wondering where to find the nearest exit. That you could even post this wretched excess speaks volumes about you, which needs not further commentary.
Bush was a lot of things, including ignorant and dogmatic, but a pig is not one of them. That is a term specifically reserved for your
idolidle.What OA and Ferd said.
did you guys notice Prime Obot’s description of this entry: ‘this diary’…?
Say hi to the folks at TheDailyWhackJobs. How’s that Scozafazza endorsement working out for ya?
Oh, shoot. I was all set to dismantle Prime Obot till I read OA’s and Ferd’s replies. They pretty much covered it all. Thanks for saving me the trouble.
Unless he’s copying the syntax of another poster, PO is a denizen of another blog, too…one run by a hampster. He’s not particularly good at what he does but he’s tenacious as hell.
Say what you will about Bush. He was far from perfect and I didn’t vote for him, but you need to give credit where credit is due, if you have any integrity at all and if there is a morsel of the adult in you, PrimeObot. Bush went to many servicemen’s funerals and met with many families. He did it privately, without fanfare and without cameras. You want to compare that with your Obama actor who constantly needs public adulation, lights, camera, action, but who is too cowardly to actually serve in the military? If you do, you are an even bigger fool than you appear.
Did you even look at that salute he gave? Obviously, Axelrod had someone coached him and I just wonder how many hours he stood in front of a mirror to perfect the most dramatic salute he could pull off. THAT is what is disgusting about Obama. It’s all about how he will look to the rest of us, not about what is right. Self-aggrandizement, thy name is Obama.
That scumbag Bush condemned thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis to death in order to pursue a heedless, lazy, ill-thought-war. In so doing he left Afghanistan unfinished, thus condemning many more thousands to die there too, up to this die. And then there’s the NIE that he ignored, which helped allow 9/11 to happen, because none of them could have cared less about Al Qaeda then. And then there’s Katrina — another Bush Texas vacation too important to interrupt in order to be a leader and save American lives.
There will be a special place in Hell reserved for that piece of s**t of a human being. And all of you who would compare him favorably to Obama are, in your own small ways, also beneath contempt.
Hey botfly, look up thread. Your psycopathy is showing.
Your insanity is getting old in a hurry, bothead. Please take your psychopathy elsewhere, like to the nearest sanitarium. I believe there’s a padded cell and lovely white, long-sleeved jackets for your lounging pleasure.
Asshat.
Couldn’t agree more. Me thinks Bush didn’t show is face at Dover because Delawareans would have run him out of there. As for Delawarean VP, Joe Biden, he has not been shy about calling Bush what he is/was — INCOMPETENT! In fact, Joe has said Bush’s entire administration was incompetent. And anybody who had Bush as a governor should agree with Biden hands-down, unless of course, they are equally as incompetent as Bush.
And you think Biden is competent? Just what planet do you live on? Have you not listened to him embarrass himself and Obama over and over since becoming VP (and before, actually)? The man’s entire career has been one colossal mistake after another.
What is beneath contempt is anyone who blindly supports an inexperienced, incompetent (just what are his accomplishments? Perhaps you’ll name the very long list?) man who needs to keep hidden from the public his records from his past. Has there ever been a President about whom practically nothing is allowed to be known? Does that not tell your narrow little mind something about the man you adore? If it doesn’t, you obviously place little value on the mores and traditions of this country and seemingly have contempt for democracy.
It’s too bad people like you are willing to give our country’s strength and prestige away as easily as Obama is doing. You follow him blindly. It’s too bad you don’t think about the repercussions of your blind loyalty to this unworthy man.
He will be found out eventually.
Prime, saying Obama is better than Bush is of zero value. Who isn’t better than Bush??
If the only good thing about him is that he’s better than Bush, that’s not good enough by a LONG shot. You got suckered by Ax’s astroturf and haven’t seen daylight yet.
Settle down, take a week or two off from NQ and simply observe Obama. He really is not worth the energy you are putting into defending him. The world will survive these scary times, maybe by the skin of our teeth,but we will make it in spite of all.
Oh, please just stop!
I hated what Dubya did to our country for 8 years and I was a vocal opponent of the wars, but I will not lie to myself that Obama is taking a higher moral ground on this subject. He has had almost a year to devise a means of improving this mess and he has done worse than nothing! “Adult” my fat aunt Fanny! He’s a selfish, self-indulgent egotist who can’t keep one campaign promise.
Don’t try to tell anyone he’s better than Bush. Take off those rose-colored glasses and see for the first time. Stop lying to yourself. You seem to be an intelligent person. How can you not understand that BO is not going to make this country better?
His simpering, whining apologies have diminished our country’s standing in the world’s esteem, his meddling in our economy has ruined businesses big and small, his prima donna posturing has demoralized our citizens and our military. His incredible spending (of money we don’t have!), is going to bankrupt this nation.
Open your eyes and see him for what he is, not what he told you he would be, not what he promised. For what he is.
I’ve got to respond to this. When my son enlisted, I fully expected to have to have a bake sale and raise money for equipment for him. After all, wasn’t I told time and time again from my party that we didn’t send them into battle with the right equipment? Didn’t we see it plastered all over the blogs that our servicemen and women were left hanging to dry?
Well I mentioned to my son to let me know what he needed so we could raise the money to buy the things, like body armor and such and he looked at me like I was losing my mind. He asked where did I get my information and of course, I told him from my forums, media. He then politely told me to turn off my computer and tv and to get real, that they didn’t need the equipment as they were provided with more than enough. He assured me of it, but has since assured me that when they say one thing on TV, that’s it’s not quite the way it is. Haven’t we learned that with this past election? So have at it BOt. Blame Bush all you want, but you are off base. ANd according to him, waaaaay off base.
It’s pathetic to try and excuse Obama’s behavior by constantly blaming Bush. It is his war now, and he’s doing a piss poor job of handling it. I’m not surprised, but I would think that someone like you who seems to have your head so far up his ass, that you would see how bad he is f…king up this war. He would have actually impressed the guys if he hadn’t brought the camera crew with him, but now, he’s what they thought he was in the first place, a poser. They jokingly call him the “pope of hope” and it isn’t in a good way.
While I didn’t like Bush, I would trade Obama in for Bush in a New YOrk minute. And I’m quite tired of hearing how everything’s still Bush’s fault. YOu and Obama need to man up and start taking responsibility for how bad the “one” is screwing things up, all over, the economy, the war, healthcare…. the list goes on.
My above post was to prime obot.
Excellent post, armymom, and please tell your son thank you for his service. He is a blessing to all of us.
Obama is an adult?
Well, knock me over with a feather; Ya sure coulda fooled me.
The Jay-Z “brush off” including “the finger” to Hillary Clinton during the primary was “adult?!”
What a waste. I could have been having so much fun behaving like an “adult,” and playing songs like “99 Problems but a Bitch Ain’t One” when I enter my political rallies.
Or telling giggling women in photo-shoots that that “buzzing in my pocket is my cell phone, I’m not getting fresh!”
bwahahaha. Yeah, he’s just so “adult” isn’t he?!?
Obama isn’t an “adult”; he’s an adolescent.
Bronwyn’s Harbor has a pretty good argument for why Obama SUDDENLY DECIDED on a midnight photo shoot at Dover, whatever you may think about Bush. I opposed Bush on every policy including Iraq. I don’t believe Bush’s intentions were ever ANY more honorable than Obama’s. Whereas Bush was an ideologue; Obama is simply self-aggrandizement itself.
I don’t believe for one second that Obama has ANY CONCERN for the military, much less respect for the military. Obama is a bold-faced liar, a political opportunist, and a narcissist who cares about one thing and one thing only: His own image.
Taking advantage of the various activities going on in both NYC and Philadelphia this weekend with world series, football, concerts, marathons, subway and bus construction and delays to distract the general public and possible tamper with November 3 election results, has anyone else heard of the internet rumor that billionaire NYC Mayor Bloomberg may possibly finance another 9/11-like attack this afternoon at Newark airport?
The reason is to distract the general public of his close association to the British/Dutch oligarghy and their agenda to install fascism/Nazi-dictatorship via “chaos, confusion and clash of civilations” here in the U.S.?
As a fellow puppet with same agenda, Obama will make sure law enforcement community will use his scheduled presence at the Prudential Center in Newark as the motive of attack and destroy and cover up all evidence that may implicate Obama, Bloomberg and inside job?
And conveniently scapegoat Pakistani-Americans to take the fall taking advantage of anti-Pakistani sentiments and not dissimiliar to how Saudi Arabian men were in the 2001 attacks?
With the ultimate goal to tamper with November 3 elections and take advantage of chaos of world series, football, concerts, marathons and subway construction and delays to distract the public, will puppets Obama/billionaire Bloomberg of the British/Dutch oligarghy with agenda to install fascism, Nazi dictatorial and police state control via “chaos, confusion and clash of civilizations,” orchestrate a 9/11-like attack at Newark airport this afternoon and …
have their unmonitored law enforcement communities use Obama’s scheduled presence at the Prudential Center in Newark to support NJ Gov. Corzine, multi-millionaire, as the motive for attack and scapegoat innocent Pakistani-Americans for the crime….
they will immediately destroy and cover up all evidence that leads to themselves exactly like what happened in the 2001 attacks?
Hope there is no truth to this rumor!!!!!!!!!!!
Ahem, the sanitarium is down the hall next to the obot blathering hole, HuffyPoo.
He is probably pissed off that the returning troops didn`t stand up and applaud him.
Ouch! I do believe you’re correct.
Exactly, Ferd. I wrote a very snarky comment to HARP’s witty one-liner last night, then decided not to post it, and the reason why is where the “Ouch!” comes in: I feel deeply that Thee One’s presence at this event is phony, self-serving, and manipulative, but it is hard to express this feeling sarcastically without involving the dignity of the fallen troops. It’s touchy. It’s hard to approach the deep sorrow of the flag-draped caskets with sarcasm, even when that sarcasm is defending the solemnity of the occasion. As they used to sing on Sesame Street, “There’s something in this picture that just doesn’t belong”–Gee, what could it be?
Very biting comment, HARP.
I had the same dilema oowawa. There is no ‘get’ when it comes to fallen angels. If BO had any connection at all to military families, I might give him a pass but I can’t.
He could not even get the piticulars of his own families service to this nation correct…he needed a history prop during the primaries and got it WRONG.
Thanks HARP for making it short and bittersweet.
Almighty Spam Filter did strike down my reply to this comment. Please retrieve, administrator. Thanks.
LMAO. NQ should have a thread devoted to Spamicus. Make it a contest to see how many comments could be flushed.
You forgot the offering, silly!
Well, Katmoon, I cannot sacrifice farm livestock to the Almighty Spam Filter because I love animals, and evidently ASF does not care for the reek of burnt tofu coming from the altar.
Hey–you left out the wawa, oo.
Hey Ferd, I think it was a malicious joke of the Almighty Spam Filter, cutting off my wawa suffix.
I wouldn’t put it past that recalcitrant robot.
If it wern’t for war criminal, George W. Bush, Delawareans would’t have any dead soldiers returning on their own state soil.
Bullshit. While Iraq was unjustified, Afghanistan was justified and soldiers died there, too. You make the typical bot mistake of the hasty generalization. Take your irrational views to
the nearest dumpsterHuffPo. We don’t need your hot and gaseous comments shedding more heat than light on this particular subject, fool.Well, I am cynical at this point.
Had President Obama did this earlier, gone to the airport, even with photographers in tow, I would have said, “Bravo.” Because this is what a leader should do, not only for the fallen soldiers and their families [so enormously important] but for all of us. He should feel that pain and angst. These are sons and husbands, fathers and brothers, wives and sisters, mothers and daughters who are shedding blood and lives in our name. They and we don’t get to name the battle, sanction the war or demand the ultimate sacrifice. The President of the United States does.
But the timing is sullied by politics and bad polls and indecision.
We don’t want to believe that. But when I saw that film footage, my stomach turned.
I have no sympathy or understanding for Bush&Co who refused to allow film footage of the military caskets coming home from Iraq. The American public should see the cost of war, the wars that are warrented and the ones that are senseless.
Sorry, but this most recent film footage made my skin crawl.
I felt the same way as you when I watched that footage. it was plain creepy.
I refuse to even watch his hypocrisy. We all know it was simple timing. His ratings are down. Quick, find a positive phot op! Sadlt there have been many opportunities to honor our fallen heroes. He chose this moment in time because it benefited his agenda.
The worst sort of hypocrite!!!
The “new” definition of “cynical” is “negative”. The original definition of the term was more like “agressive realist” (no bad thing, in my view).
signed: Agressive Realist
So you’re saying, if Obama (like Bush) didn’t bother going, he was wrong, but because he went now, he is also wrong? Don’t you see how absurd this is? And how deeply unfair?
Thank you for being honest (and right) about the hideous Bush, and for acknowledging that, yes, these are scenes that the American people, and any mature democracy, should see. And therefore, that Obama did the right thing making this trip, and publicly.
The only correct course of action would have been to do this without cameras and without fanfare.
Nobody would ever see it (or know about it), but then, that’s the whole point. Because that’s how you know it’s sincere and from the heart.
If you see a picture of a guy who hates the military (Obama) saluting caskets while the camera zooms in and gives him the regal hero shot, it’s because that’s exactly what Axelrod and Rahm WANT you to see. If obama had class, he would have insisted on doing it with as little fanfare as possible. That’s the whole point.
Everything this administration does is designed solely to prop up that tempest in a tiny teapot in the WH. Someone said he has no soul. I believe they are correct.
Well, this is the apotheosis of all the anti-Obama idiocy we see here and elsewhere: according to Ferd, he has no soul. He is literally not human. Right? We are all human, but not Obama. Because he is *that evil*.
Rhetoric like this is beyond ridiculous and into the realm of the frightening.
I believe Ferd meant he has no empathy, which is bad enough, and very BushII like.
Thank you, nan. That is exactly what I meant. Prime O’bottle is just terminally obtuse.
Only when it suits its “rant-o-the-day”.
No, goober. It is you who are frightening. That you can claim to be an adult in the 21st century yet go on an on about an ex-president while the current one acts at playing president is beyond me. You’re silly and your master is unfit, unqualified, and dangerous.
He’s an empty shell of a flim-flam man; a liar, cheat and a thief. But then this bot is a SF bot so he’s probably just upset that the SF version of 0zer0 just dropped out of the CA Governors race. Gavin Newsom should stay in local politics. He’s not big enough for more. Not that Jerry Brown is either but I am hopeful that Meg Whitman will mop up the floor with Governor Moonbeam.
I agree. However, In Governor Moonbeam’s defense, at least everyone knows where he stands. He’s no shrinking violet, as it were, and he never lied to get into office. Other than that, he’s definitely a flake.
But he has heart and empathy. He went to India and bathed the poor and dying with Mother Teresa.
An experience like that might have a lasting effect on the the understanding a politician has for the real life issues facing the poor, and the soon-to-be poor, which is so sadly lacking in our current president, brought to us by Goldman Sachs.
Touche. I stand corrected.
Martha, there has to be a back story to Newsom dropping out. I am not sure at this point weather state politics or DNC “got” to him. Perhaps there more sordid details of him cheating on his ex-wife that would have made it “impossible” for him.
Sombody got to him, I just wonder how.
I anticipate the Dems going after Whitman ala BO. Infact, it would not surprise me if the DNC “machine” was brought to bear in the upcoming governors race.
Lets see, all the ingrediants are present. A qualified busnisess woman who has run a Fortunate 500 and is interested jobs small biz and education in the state.
I may disagree with some of her positions but given a choice between ex governor Jerry Brown and Mrs Whitman, I would have to vote for the kid who grew up in Cold Springs Harbor, one of my favorite places on Long Island.
The California economy blows with the trade winds and it SUCKS with the 10% payroll tax increase coming next month.
You are quite right Shannon. No one wouldn’t want Obama to go to Dover, but it should have been all about the returning dead and their sacrifice, not another photo op for the publicity loving prez. He cheapened the episode and doubtless he is clueless as to that fine point. It’s beyond him to imagine that we are tired of seeing him and hearing his tiresome speeches.
The inability of any of his supporters on this site to admit that Obama is less than perfect boggles the mind. I left Kos for this reason. Intelligence was forfeited to loyalty to this man.
Now if you could only be honest about your side-show barker, con-man and charlatan in the WH. I doubt any regular here will hold their breath awaiting such on your part, however. Your kind are just bushbots with different programming.
Yes, we have “different programming.” We literally do not think like regular human beings. That is your assertion? That people who support and believe in Obama literally are not fully human?
Do you have any idea how demented your rhetoric has become, Ferd?
There’s your projection again, boob. You support a con-man so I’d say that rather than me, it is you who is demented. I didn’t like Bush and I truly dislike That One. At least I’m consistent in disliking arrogant, dogmatic incompetents. You, on the other hand, love them when they represent your twisted view of reality.
Stop bitching about me and start looking at your own disjointed logic.
P.O. would fail a Turing test. You would never mistake conversing with it with conversing with a human.
That’s for sure, if his slack-jawed, mouth-breathing followers with their deep-fried motherboards are any indication.
I’ll tell you what’s deeply unfair: that we suffered 8 long years with Bush&Co and are now straddled with Obama and his crew.
Back-to-back epic fails!
i cannot understand why you, primeobot, have trouble with the concept that anti-bush sentiments do not make an automatic pro-obama supporter…i hate them both, for different reasons.
people on this blog have formed opinions about the person in the office, not the party. most of us, i would venture to say, had been long-time democrats. that’s what you, and the media, continue to fail to understand.
mccain did not lose because democrats didn’t vote for him…he lost because republicans didn’t vote for him.
Jillie said:
“mccain did not lose because democrats didn’t vote for him…he lost because republicans didn’t vote for him.”
Yes, on this and your other comments, Jillie. Republicans did not support their own candidate. And many of us here have/had been long-standing Democratic voters.
Please stop the myth that McCain lost due to lack of Republican support. It simply isn’t true. Nationwide , Republican turnout was lower, but that can easily be shown to be caused by indifference in the highly populated but solidly blue states like California and New York. I live in an extremely concentrated liberal district in a blue state, none of my candidates EVER win, but I still vote anyway out of a sense of responsibility. But I often wonder “What’s the point?”.
In the battle ground states, there is no indication that Republican turnout was depressed. What made the greatest difference in the last election was the wishy-washy swing voters in those battle ground states. Had they swung for McCain in states like Florida, Virginia, Indiana, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Colorado, McCain would be President today. Also, in some of those states like Fla and N.C. Democrat registration was historically WAY up (thanks ACORN).If all of the Republicans in Cal, N.Y., Mass, and other heavily populated blue states had stayed home, of course the general vote count for Reps would be way down nationwide, but that would not have made a difference in the outcome.
So you’re trying to tell me, Onofre, that the Republicans were enthusiastic about McCain, that Republican vote was down but that had nothing to do with his election loss?
I guess it’s a myth only when it involves Republicans.
Btw, I voted for McCain, and I’ve been a Democrat all my life.
No, I’m not saying they were enthusiastic, what I’m saying is that they voted for him anyway in the states were it would matter, but they couldn’t overcome Obama’s strong swing voter numbers. I was not enthusiastic about him, but I still voted for him, and this was in a state where my vote would never have mattered. If I, and millions of other Republicans in blue states had stayed home in apathy, the electoral vote would not be any different. It’s just simple math PS, in the states where it was down to the wire, reluctant Republicans voted for McCain in the usual numbers because they knew it was far better than having Obama win. Place the blame for Obama where it really belongs, in the laps of the swing voters, in the swing states.
Also, if you want to blame the Republicans for losing the last election, I might agree with you if your argument is that the Republicans picked a weak candidate, AND they allowed the left to make the election more about Bush than about principles. Both of those reasons are vastly more responsible for the dangerous clown we have today, than Republican apathy.
Actually, you just made my case, Onofre.
As far as the parties go? I think they both suck. And the idea that the last election “wouldn’t” be about Bush&Co is laughable. Or are you in the amnesia crowd and let’s rewrite history for the sake of the Republican Party.
Please!
How utterly silly PS. How many times this last election did I hear “We have to get rid of Bush” even though there was no way possible that we would’t get rid of Bush no matter the outcome of the election. And NOTHING that I’ve written is a “rewrite” of history, but your obvious hatred of Bush will not allow you to understand that all I have written is purely an objective view of the last election, and not an apology for Bush, McCain, or the Republicans. Just setting the facts straight. Good grief.
i disagree with you, onofre. if the republicans had fought for their candidate as hard as we fought for ours, we might have had a different outcome.
yes, registration was up for the ‘new’ democrats. but there were millions of ‘old’ democrats who were still voting..and many of them went for mccain.
in my household alone, 4 out of 6 went for mccain. i cannot tell you how usual that was.
and now, we have to sit and listen to the demented media tell us that ‘republicans’ have tea parties, and ‘republicans’ oppose health care reform, and ‘republicans’ watch fox news.
they still don’t get it…and people like prime obot, who probably voted the same way i did until this past year, seems to believe the myth as well.
Lots of us DID fight hard for McCain. In fact, most of the time it seemed that we were fighting harder than McCain himself. Let’s face it, except for the fire that Palin brought to the ticket, McCain’s campaign and attitude were pretty tame. He brought a knife to a gunfight, and despite his lackluster performance, it was still relatively close; only several points separation in most of the swing states. McCain missed countless opportunities to kick Obama’s scrawny butt around the block on a number of issues, but he made the mistake of thinking that a gentlemanly approach was the way to win a mud wrestling match. McCain didn’t need to prove he was the more honorable of the two, that is obvious to anyone except the most hard core kool-aid addicts. What he did need to prove is that he still had fire in his belly, and match the low blows he recieved with kidney shots of his own. During some of the debates, it almost appeared that he wanted to lose, or he expected to lose. With that attitude, guess what………you’ll lose.
Well he did use that pejorative phrase that I use to this day: “That One”. He should have kept it up.
Yes Ferd, I remember. I think McCain let “that one” slip, and I could see the strain sometimes he was exerting to keep himself from saying what he REALLY felt about Obama. Perhaps he should have actually spilled his guts with the contemptuous feelings that a Navy war vet, and POW, would naturally have for a drug addled, America hating, foppish Ivy League sniff. But just imagine the the howls of “racist” and the media assault if he had.
I agree entirely. He should have wiped the floor with That One. But Mccain is an honorable man and honorable men do not stoop to the level of their adversaries, unfortunately for all of us. It is sad. He was the first republican I had voted for since 1976.
i disagree with you, onofre. if the republicans had fought for their candidate as hard as we fought for ours, we might have had a different outcome.
yes, registration was up for the ‘new’ democrats. but there were millions of ‘old’ democrats who were still voting..and many of them went for mccain.
in my household alone, 4 out of 6 went for mccain. i cannot tell you how usual that was.
and now, we have to sit and listen to the demented media tell us that ‘republicans’ have tea parties, and ‘republicans’ oppose health care reform, and ‘republicans’ watch fox news.
they still don’t get it…and people like prime obot, who probably voted the same way i did until this past year, seem to believe the myth as well.
This ex-Democrat of 32 years agress, as well.
Onofre, whether you want to admit it or not, Bush&Co tainted the Republican brand in the same way Obama is now tainting the Democratic brand. That’s why I’ve had it with both parties, even though by inclination I’ve always sided with the Dems.
Bush was a bad President and Cheney a rabid bulldog. When the Republicans had the WH and Congress, they suddenly forgot what fiscal conservatism was all about. That’s not to say the Dems are any better. This particular Congress is making a bad situation all the worse.
Bush was a lousy president in the same way Carter was a lousy president and in the way Obama is proving himself equal in lousy leadership skills. None of them are or have been true leaders. And God knows, we’re desperate for that right now.
I voted for McCain not because I thought he was perfect or even that I agreed with all his positions. But I knew in my gut that John McCain knew what the word leadership meant and that he had courage, the kind that is fired in horrendous circumstance and that his love of country could blow the rest of us away.
My first choice was Hillary Clinton. But McCain was a decent second choice.
Btw, I don’t hate George Bush. I hate the eight years that he was president. I don’t hate Barack Obama, but he is proving equally inept.
So please, don’t lecture me or anyone else on objectivity when you’re willing to take a totally partisan view.
This is the last message you and I will have.
Spammy monster ate my post. Sending an email now.
6 million Republicans chose to sit on their hands this election. It became a referendum on Bush. That much is true.
Again, if those 6 million Republicans were in Cal, N.Y., Mass, N.J., and other solidly blue states, their votes would not have made a difference. Poll numbers leading into an election can have a depressing effect on voters. When the polls show a 20 point lead in Cal. for Obama, many Republicans will stay home out of a sense of futility. When Florida was prematurely called for Gore in 2000, Republican voting became depressed in the panhandle where the polls hadn’t yet closed. Also, along those lines, many eastern states were called for Obama (at least with exit polling) while polls were still open in the west, and that also had a depressing effect in some western states; the Obama victory was certain.
Toward the end of most campaigns, there is a concentrated effort to persuade the fence sitters because any efforts spent on convincing voters who are already in your pocket are a waste of time and money. The swing voters sloshed slightly back and forth for a while, but in the end, they were solidly behind Obama. Swing voters, as is often the case, made the difference in ‘08. The rather facile, bumper sticker quality, statement that Republicans are the reason why McCain lost, is simply not factually supported. It’s almost like blaming the Angel’s loss of the ALCS on the Angel’s fans. The players lost the series, not the fans, and McCain lost the election, not his supporters, even if they weren’t that enthusiastic.
Thank you Jillie, from this ex-Democrat.
I’m sorry, but if it was my son, no one but me has the right to receive him home. Certainly not the media. That’s my opinion. I was glad that Bush put a ban on photographers because up until Obama got elected, the caskets were used as a political football. I wonder why there are those who are so quite now, not putting up that daily total of how many “Bush” killed? Why isn’t it now how many Obama’s killed? Because he certainly, IMHO, has blood on his hands for his lack of leadership. Now you hardly ever see them returning, except in a grand photo op for the CIC.
Totally agree.
I am not being cynical:
We here at NoQuarter who’ve studied the president like few others know that every move he makes is calculated to burnish his public persona.
Touche. Axelrod was a marketing/ad exec–it’s all for show. His entire career has been based on self-promotion and “a blank slated upon which people will project their wishes.” It’s all stagecraft with these folks.
I still can’t get over Axelrod’s whining to USAToday that his job keeps him away from his special-needs daughter. Here’s an idea: quit being king of the photo ops, let Obama wallow in his own sh*t, and go take care of your daughter.
Another self-serving comment: He’s trying to get sympathy for having a special needs child.
If it’s Palin with a special needs son, she should be home….
Feel free to keep that crap to yourself. This thread is not about Sarah Palin. (I am not a Palin fan. I just get tired of the constant sniping at her.)
I do not think sowsear was sniping at Palin, but rather pointing out the blatant hypocrisy being displayed by the far left whackos. Palin was derided for NOT staying home when she has a special needs child, while Axelfraud expects everyone to give him a pity party for the same reason.
If so, then I apologise for missing it.
Bronwyn’s Harbor, it has always bothered me that while our current SOS was First Lady, she personally reached out to Axelrod’s wife regarding the special needs of her child and the cause that Axelrod’s wife was supporting. To be shit on by this chump during the primaries.
Nice eh?
Absolutely twk. I find that unforgivable. And then to turn around and say Palin couldn’t effectively be VP since she has a special needs baby…What a piece of garbage.
Shouldn’t he stay home with a “special needs” child…as they suggested to Sarah?
No–he has to take care of our special needs president.
LOL
LOL, Ferd. Actually, Thee One’s special needs are simple: adoration, deep admiration, worship, applause, compliance. Very godly needs, but simple.
Ain’t that the truth. But I did think the “special needs” part was just yelling at me to make the comment.
Looking at the photo, I am reminded of that children’s song:
Which one of these things is not like the other?
Yes, fif. Before I read your comment, the same Sesame Street jingle was running through my mind in connection to this picture. Something is very discordant: The sacred and the profane–the profane deceiver crowned by the idolators as Prince of Peace standing before, and figuratively standing upon, what should be a sacred and solemn homecoming. That’s the way I see it! Some will be thrilled by the moving appropriateness of it all; I find it creepy.
And then some. What I got from the picture was that he is completely out of place. He’s a common huckster who has no business there, irrespective of the 69,000,000 who thought it would be a good idea to put him, a weak-kneed, lily-livered dope, in command of real soldiers performing real work and dying real deaths. The juxtaposition I take away from this is a fake hero making a lame attempt at honoring real heros.
http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/michele-bachmann-sean-hannity-health-care-bill-october-30-2009-washington-dc-thursday-november-5-2009-capitol-building-steps-nancy-pelosi-confronted/
Please circulate this far and wide. This gathering to stop the health care bill has to be organized now!
For an Open Thread.
Maybe if President Obama reinforced support to the troops in Afghanistan, in accordance with the wishes of his commanding General, there might be fewer of those caskets to salute.
A salute is nice and respectful. A decision, one way or the other, would be better.
Just sayin’.
Candy I was thinking along the same lines.
If he went there to get some perspective and show respect that is one thing……….to drag along the press corps for a photo op is macabre.
He has no respect for anyone.
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/photographs/large/c14159-28a.jpg
Ah, the common practice fallacy–Reagan did it so it is OK for That One to do it and vice versa.
Another failure, primey.
Or maybe PO just has a Reagan fettish? Or possibly a Nancy fettish?
He really seems to like that link.
Could be. I think it may also be his version of playing both ends against the middle. My take is that his only fetish is what he sees in the mirror, which is an–ugh–ugly thought. Then I think of Mirror in the Bathroom by The English Beat, which could have been written for him.
Had Obama gone to Dover without the media photographers there would probably be no photograph.
Personally I believe the American public needs to see such pictures and think about what that flag-covered casket carried by soldiers really means. It’s not an abstraction. The photo isn’t about Obama.
Sadly it is about Obama–inserting himself in a sacrosant place because his poll numbers are slipping. Why doesn’t he honor the dead by making a decision on Afghanistan?
I have to wonder if the timing of this photo has anything to do with the gubernatorial elections next week…or was this just a spare minute when he didn’t have a golf game?
The best way to honor the dead is to make fewer of them. Bush didn’t understand this, and Ozero is, if anything, worse.
If its about the elections, it won’t help Virginia. I think it was all about BO as it always is. Agree that if he had gone without photogs and had not asked family members for permission, then it would have been more genuine. As it was, total phony baloney.
I felt ill when I heard he had made an “unannounced” visit. Well if it was unannounced how come he got all these staged photos and video?
The shot of him saluting is unbelievably phony. Look at it. How long did he have to practice to get that noble look?
Now he is saying that this trip was so traumatic that it is going to affect his Afghanistan decision. It’s all cover for when he pulls the rug out from under our troops.
You are a gullible moron…. We don’t need PHOTOS! You miss the point COMPLETELY!
You miss the point. Obama was there after lifting the former administration’s ban on photographs of flag-draped caskets returning from the war zones. Americans shouldn’t be sheltered from that hard reality.
To date, 4,355 American soldiers dead in Iraq; 909 American soldiers dead in Afghanistan.
Obama went to their returning point as a president who must soon make a decision should do, at least once. The moment was recorded. We were allowed to see. Now his political opponents are trying to use that to score political points.
Tell me who it is that’s actually being disrespectful.
It’s a photo-op. Period. We are seeing more of an emphasis on Obama’s salute than the returning coffins. If the ban was lifted when was it lifted? It took this long to take a photo? There were no coffins going into Dover until then?
I ain’t buying what he’s selling. A Commander in Chief has to do more than salute. He has to make decisions. Obama has had months so what’s the hold up?
I have as much respect for Obama and his photo-ops as I had for GWBs. That’s not a compliment.
Obama has to see dead bodies or coffins to make a decision? What? He didn’t know our GIs were dying until now? Give me a break.
exactly! show us the caskets, just don’t show us obama looking at the caskets, get the difference?!
No show us a CIC making a decision, as he pledged to do, to support his Generals on the ground.
Obama is not the first nor will be the last the last President to send our troops into harms way.
Why all of the excitement over this? I thought Obama was going to end the wars and our troops would come home, Isn’t that what he pledged as the “anti-war” candidate?
We all knew GWB would not end the wars and bring the troops home. But then he never promised to do that. Obama did.
So Obama supporters would rather see caskets than an end to the wars. My how things have changed.
Where are the anti-war protesters now? No where to be seen.
Exactly, candymarl! Thank you. What happened to “ready on day one?” Still dithering on making a decision. Is he out of darts? Even the bots can’t seriously think that taking 2 months to make a decision, even on something as serious as war, is good leadership. And yet they defend him. And this “waiting for the election results” line is pure bunk. If he had sent people in when McChrystal asked, they could have helped be sure the first election was valid.
thank you.
I just cannot believe that he cares because if he really did why did it take him sooooooooooo long to come here. It is just another photo op for this declining president what a phony.Why do we have to see him in campain mode all the time. And why is it that if he is the president he is out campaining for his friends this should not be allowed when someone is President because he is supposed to be for all of the people.
Because, my dear, that’s all he knows how to do.
My question is “When does he find time to work?”
I told my son the same thing this afternoon. The POTUS should stay out of local politics.
When Walter Cronkite was on the evening news we saw the flag draped coffins.If the American people were permitted to see the pictures themselves no photo opps would be necessary. I disagree though about the photo not being about Obama. Everything Obama does is about appearances and for gain or he would not do it.
I suppose it’s about Obama to the extent that a Commander in Chief has allowed himself to be photographed with the casket of an American soldier who has died because of decisions made by a Commander in Chief. In that sense it says a lot. It humbles rather than glorifies. It’s a juxtaposition of one who must decide, and the irrevocable consequences of making decisions. Not much of a “photo-op”, really.
What humble about it> The news media still has Obama as the center story and not the dead troops.
I;m a vet and I say you’re full of it. I seen this type of thing before.
That is standard photo-op stuff, dittohead. It was planned and carried out at the direction of his handlers. Would that they actually planned the really important things this country needs, like a plan of action for Afghanistan. This entire scene was meant to shore up his flagging support and nothing more. He doesn’t give a tinker’s cuss about the soldiers, their families, me or YOU (or anyone else for that matter). This is all about him and his need for constant attention and represents just another way to change the subject when the questions and comments get a little too close for his comfort.
Kindly take your half-baked, half-witted commentary elsewhere. That you can even make the lame-ass attempt at excusing this crass scene makes you just as bad as him.
As the wife of a doctor I was insensed at the gall of using doctors as props for his health care photo ops. I can’t even begin to imagine the fury of a parent of a soldier seeing BO using our fallen heroes as props for his promo.
That was just another publicity ploy. Actually, instead of America’s doctors being in favor of this healthcare fiasco, only 17% belong to the AMA, the group Obama cited, and the vast majority of those others are against it! Perception is everything….until one uncovers the truth.
That One will use anything and anyone as part of his smoke-and-mirrors campaign on the Hopey-Changey Express.
Hello? Seriously? This was the war that 0 said was the important war. This was the one he chaired a committee on (to prop up his so-thin-it’s-transparent reume [Hey, maybe that's the transparency he's been talking about...])He didn’t get elected by opposing this war; he got elected for supporting it. He was going to WIN this one. So don’t reach for that whiny “it’s Bush’s war” nonsense here. This was the one he wanted to lead. Well, 0, you got it. And so far all you’ve managed is a salute.
Spot on, Lana. It is no longer Shrub’s war–it is solely That One’s. He wanted it; he got it. If he isn’t up to the job, he should resign immediately (well a guy can wish!).
To think that this is something Obama did out of the goodness of his heart is naive.
It’s simple: H e ‘ s t a n k i n g i n t h e p o l l s…
This is nothing more than another attempt to make his marxist azz look more sympathetic to a majority of americans.
Sympathetic? More like pathetic.
That being said, it would be wonderful to have a leader that actually cared about our troops and their families.
Gotta go take a shower now to get the Obama creepiness off.
One of the newscasters reported when he asked the family members if they would be willing to let him have his picture taken with the returning dead, all declined except one, so Obummer got his photo opportunity. I, too, find it hard not to question his motives.
Has anybody got a real source for that? Something more credible than Rush Limbaugh, who simply repeated an unattributed statement made by John Gibson on Fox News Radio?
Only one casket taped
In this case, the return of only one of the 18 was open to the media.
His name was Dale R. Griffin, an Army sergeant from Terre Haute, Ind., and a top wrestler in high school and in college at Virginia Military Institute. He was remembered Thursday by friends and a former coach as particularly tenacious. Vigo County (Ind.) Judge Chris Newton, a family friend, described him as “unbelievably tough and resilient.”
“It is unclear why the other families declined coverage.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33526742
May he be honored for his sacrifice independently of POTUS using the dead as a photo prop, on his way to the promised land.
We the living, must bear the burden of this ultimate sacrifice.
Commander in chief propaganda is insulting to the families, coming from a person whose experience with military families is not in evidence, he can’t sell it though ever has the audacity to attempt it.
Does he stand saluting while grumbling silently that it was someone else’s problem or does BO understand it is his gig to change it and own it?
Is that real enough for you, now? Or is MSNBC now the same as Limbaugh?
That’s so vague it tells us nothing.
If most families were asked if the media could have permission to be present at so personal a moment, my guess is that declining would be almost automatic. That would be my own reaction to such a question at such a time.
That entirely understandable response is being deliberately portrayed and exploited as an expression of their political sentiment. The families of the fallen are being used to further a political agenda. And in the case of attributing anti-Obama sentiment to their response, entirely without their input or permission. Their “reason” was simply made up.
“It is unclear why the other families declined coverage.” Is that clear enough?
I guess I have my own views about what is shameful.
You asked for proof and you got it. And it was from msnbc, the all-bot, all the time station. And then that’s not good enough for you. Why don’t you read armymom’s comment upthread and stop being so disrespectful.
We apparently have an entirely different understanding of what constitutes proof of the assertion that families didn’t want media attention because they disapprove of the president.
Maybe Rush Limbaugh should ask before presuming to tell the world the feelings and opinions of grieving military families. Or better yet, leave them alone and not comment, since they’ve already indicated they wanted the media to keep its distance. He can surely find something else to discredit the administration. Perhaps even an issue instead of an attitude.
Comment by changeling | 2009-10-31 00:06:53
One of the newscasters reported when he asked the family members if they would be willing to let him have his picture taken with the returning dead, all declined except one, so Obummer got his photo opportunity. I, too, find it hard not to question his motives.
====================
Comment by IndianaDem | 2009-10-31 00:43:32
Has anybody got a real source for that? Something more credible than Rush Limbaugh, who simply repeated an unattributed statement made by John Gibson on Fox News Radio?
=====================
Your original comment only asked for proof that the families declined. You got your answer but then like every obedient obamabot, changed the entire context to make it appear as though you asked something entirely different.
You’re nothing but a dime-a-dozen troll and a silly one at that.
He can’t defend Obama so he resorts to attacking Limbaugh.
Indeed. My question is why Prime O’botulism insists on parading around his sub-prime IQ for all the world to snicker at.
Oops–wrong bot. No doubt about it, I have to get a lucky number program because I have a hard time any more differentiating one silly troll from another even sillier troll. Mea culpa.
It’s easy to confuse them (double entendre intended) when they all seem to suffer from the same mental dissorder.
Having all of one’s thoughts obsessively revolving around hatred for one particular human being might also be seen as pathological. Especially when it leads to dividing everyone else into us and them, based entirely upon whether that hatred is shared or not.
Ziggy you mean like all O supporters calling those who disagree with the president racist?
Look, Zippyl, I NEVER said I hated That One. I have always said he is unfit, unqualified, and dangerous. There is a big difference, although you have no means of comprehending what little you can read, apparently.
Do try to be more honest next time, Zippy. Or better yet, shove it and shove off.
“Ziggy you mean like all O supporters calling those who disagree with the president racist?”
All Obama supporters don’t do that. But when that has been done by some with no actual basis, as a generalized accusation, Yes, exactly like that.
BTW there is no such thing as an unannounced visit by the President to any military installation. There’s too much logistics involved.
But you would know that if you’d ever been present for a visit by the POTUS. I have.
Isn’t this “noble” guy the same one who cancelled a visit to Landstuhl to visit the troops while in Europe because he couldn’t take his own photographers along, and instead spent the morning in the hotel gym? The same guy who showed us all the soldier’s bracelet he was wearing during one of the debates, but then couldn’t remember the soldier’s name? Barack Obama cares only about the perceptions, the hype, the illusions, the masks he wears 24/7. George Bush honored our fallen in private, with no publicity and great dignity. Barack Obama knows only how to turn even the solemn return of our war dead into a photo op and political maneuver. There is no sense of dignity in this man, no moral compass, and in my opinion, no soul.
Good memory and good point, Babs! I’d forgotten about his European tour.
A BIG AMEN..
Bush met the families in private
Thanks for the reference to Joyce - thought I recognized that, one of my favorite authors.
As has been said above - this is all too boring, yet another exploitation of genuine grief by the soul-sucking need of Obama for all the attention in the world.
I’m only surprised that is hadn’t happened already.
Anyone who doesn’t think that this event was a staged event, complete with a theatrical salute and an appropriately stern look is incredibly naive.
I found the salute sickening in it’s phoniness and an insult to every person who has put their life on the line for this country. This guy stayed as far away from serving in the military as he possibly could. After all, why would he serve a country he so obviously hates?
I believe in one of our stories last week, about Afghanistan I made mention of the president only being involved with the soldiers to aid his campaign, and for photo ops. I rest my case. Feeling the need to spit again.
From the NYT:
“The images and the sentiment of the president’s five-hour trip to Delaware were intended by the White House to convey to the nation that Mr. Obama was not making his Afghanistan decision lightly or in haste.”
Curiously and inexplicably, the same paragraph was edited later on to read as follows:
“The image of the commander in chief standing on a darkened tarmac, offering a salute to one of the soldiers, highlighted the poignancy of a decision he is facing.”
The mention of Obama’s intention to convey was suddenly gone. I’m disgusted!
I guess we have to go back to taking screen shots now. Nobody wanted their mop, so they had to bring back the scrubber.
Like everything else Obama does–its completely devoid of feeling and includes the White House Press Pool in an obvious photo op. When the propaganda machine has to highlight the word “poignancy” the cynical narcisscism is obvious.
For sure, foxy voter. I would only change only one word: “Press” to “Cess”.
Ha. Well, there you go. They must have gotten “THE PHONE CALL.”
Pathetic.
This is from KingShamus on Track-a-’Crat’s blog, plus there is one additional troop in this particular picture, but:
“Here’s a picture of eight great Americans. And Barack Obama.”
How true.
Eight Americans who sacrificed their lives for their country and Obama who sacrifices the country to achieve his own ends.
A statement by Gibbs, found in a Politico article, showed a complete isolation and insulation from anything outside the White House.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28917.html
“I think you get a real sense of gravity,” Gibbs said. “You could see the genuine anguish on their faces. It’s hard not to be overwhelmed.”
Did he expect that the families and friends have been faking their grief? What the eff did he expect to see on their faces as these caskets were unloaded? Like the rest of them, Gibbs is a cold and prickly man.
Gibbs makes Scott McClellan look like a genius and great humanitarian.
That is laughable!!!
Gibbs is no improvement over McClellan in the least. Frankly, I think that Gibbs statement is a clear indication that this was a photo-op designed to improve Obama’s ratings, which are not only low with civilian Americans but particularly among the military.
One of the best Press Secs. of recent history was Tony Snow, and I didn’t agree with half of what the man was reporting. But he brought grace and respect to the position and had to guts to answer the difficult questions.
Gibbs is awful and yes, I wouldn’t be surprised if the photo-op was his brilliant idea.
I agree 100% PS. Tony Snow was an honest, warm natured, and well spoken advocate for the right, and he rarely, if ever, took cheap shots at the left, the way Gibbs trashes conservatives. Tony seemed able to set aside political and ideological differences in favor of the perspective that we are all Americans, and all worthy of consideration. Gibbs, like his boss, is a petulant, finger pointing, baby.
That’s so true Onofre; giving credit where credit is due, and for the right reasons. Tony was a decent press secretary. I have to admit during the time I was so blinded by my dislike for the Bush administration, I didn’t give that credit, not until after having to cope with the incompetents since him. This is the problem with party blindness. I am no longer part of either party, and it does lift the veil and provides a freedom in thought and allows for critical thinking to a much deeper level on the issues. I’m not proud of having been in a state of political blindness for so long, and I am sorry it took seeing two decent women get savaged by the media to finally separate myself from the parties. Finally being an independent gives me no excuse for not examining or understanding policy that is being set forth. I no longer depend on any talking head political or otherwise to enlighten me, nor do I trust any of them; some I will give my ear, as they have earned it.
One military death or 14, regardless of the number at any given time, is still too much. It is political theater and nothing more for this president to show up and produce a well rehearsed, poorly delivered salute, lacking empathy. Having caskets photographed is a sticky issue for me. On a personal note my answer (please God, may I never know this moment) is no. I feel if you want to know what is going on in a war and you need photos to understand there is death and horror; you are either supremely naive, sadistic, or without the capacity to comprehend war without a visual display. IMHO Further, when the troops were shown circa WWII, there had been equal coverage of support, and in an entirely different context than what we know 60+ years later. Different people, who enlisted, and supported the troops, regardless of whether a camera was near by, and preferred their support to go to the living, not as an afterthought where the soldier would never know of their support. Military men and women and their families need that respect and support all year, not only during the holidays, nor at graveside.
I also read that normally 3/4 of families consent to the Pentagon doing photos, while in this instance only one family did.
The cynic in me feels that this was another “check mark” for the presidential scrapbook. Perhaps the gravity of the scene will be a “teachable moment”!
President Bush had his ridiculous “mission accomplished”, but he also jogged with a young man who lost both legs in Iraq. I’m sure that was a solemn and prideful occassion for both!
Once again truthiness replaces truth.
I know, all this time and Weary Barry didn’t have time to visit the KIA troops before, but now he does.
Unless it was just coincidence that he chose now to start paying respects to the KIA and he attends each arrival, you have your answer.
And it seems the America people know it too. Obama’s aproval has just sunk to 46 percent with Rasmussen today.
Thanks for those latest stats. Only 46% “somewhat approve”? That is laughable.
Thanks for the info, Linda!
I’m sure that Prime Obot is counted in the number who always approve of her prince charming!
I’d called her/him dysfunctional!
Why are we the only ones the bots can converse(yell)with?
Because trolls like Prime Obutt have been kicked off every other website, including the ones devoted to the adoration of That One.
We get the bottom-feeders.
True Ferd!
They are as welcome as a case of shingles!
Sometimes I suspect that they are “plants” to liven up the threads.
It’s hard to believe they are real…of course, they could be inmates!
When Obama was a US Senator, he didn’t vote against any funding for the war ever. He didn’t object to it publicly ever. Maybe you heard his speech given in 2004? He condemned the war or something like that. Well, it was a media created speech. Recorded in a studio. When it was done, nobody knows. But we do know it was a fabrication of a speech he says he gave that nobody remembers. What a phony.
If this is not bo’s war, then these are not bo’s dead to mourn, pay tribute or honor to. The president cannot, on the one hand, plead “non est mea culpa” while taking a bow (in primetime) for his tribute.
And while I’m feeling Cicero-ish, this one’s for primeobot: “Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione”
The one, called the Iraq War, in so many words, the “bad” war, and campaigned on sending more troops to Afghanistan, you know the “good” war. This was all campaign razzle dazzle, which is done in the dark of night and behind closed doors, when it is hard to see the blood on your hands and when others can call you the coward you are to your face; CIC-campaigner in Chief.
something I just picked up off my twitter (for wisdom coming late)
CNN exposes Obama/ACORN voter fraud in Indiana
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.news-media/browse_thread/thread/ad9490b74034aa31/727103e13a27af22?show_docid=727103e13a27af22&pli=1
a little history for those who weren’t following back during the DEM primaries - and the reason I am SOOOO ANGRY today! CNN breaks this story like it’s NEWS today when WE as Hillary advocates during the primaries exposed these 5 THOUSAND fraudulent apps over a year ago!!! sooooo why now? Ya think they are getting ready to make BAmbi step down and let HILLARY have her rightful spot? Nah I’m dreaming. The same thing happened with the Rev Wright mess AND the Edwards Insult. All exposed over a year before the PUBLIC got a chance to judge. SHAMEFUL!
i meant to say google allows it to go up NOW when it was reported a year ago
why now
My poem below was written some time ago when W Bush
refused to allow fallen troops arriving home from the Middle Eastern wars to be covered by TV cameras; still photos appeared on youtube. The impression given was that they were smuggled out against orders.
DOVER BASE
Still photos of pewter skies, silver
jets floating or fatigue-dressed,
white-gloved sentries faithfully
tending brown boxes enflagged in
reds and blues and whites–visual
relief to opposed monochrome, and
oddly apart like spilt fireworks in
shrouded July Fourth nights…
The candid camera travels, now
staring out from inside the cavern
belly of a transport ejecting cargo,
the mindful gloves, the waiting white
hearses…
Imaging prayers and cadenced steps–
shuffling shoes on a tarmac–bearers
with biers, singular, yet akin, a
silent line of white funereal hacks;
a door snapping shut; the metalic whirl
of belts conveying units into white-
gloved hands; rasping of footballs,
waiting white hearses…
In other shots, skies remain flat,
neutral, low; impossible to perceive
dawn or dusk as if it mattered at
point-of-entry, Dover Base. But in the
alerted mind, a mourning trumpet blows
taps; silver planes cut their engines…
landing….
Wonderful, goldengrahame: thanks for posting. I will reflect upon how “Dover Base” interacts with Matthew Arnold’s famous “Dover Beach,” which ends like this:
I’m sure none of you guys want to hear this, but I respect Bush for not allowing the press to photograph the caskets. I know that I was one of many who tried to keep it that way with Obummer. I’m sorry, but to say that seeing them would make someone “realize” the sacrifice that they made for the country is just bull, IMO. That’s like saying to someone who lost their son or daughter in a car crash, and you say to them, I understand. You don’t, couldn’t unless you lost someone close to you the same way. I had always been a democrat but when my son enlisted, I found that they were the ones who were making almost a game of counting caskets. Propaganda such as t-shirts with the names of our lost warriors were being sold, casket counts were blazed across the news like it some freakin football game, the left against the military. That is how I felt anyways. I never want the press around my family, not within a 100 miles, should something happen to my son. And I sure as hell don’t want ANY politician near them either. When you have politicians such as Kerry, Murtha, Obama claiming that our soldiers are “baby killers”, thugs worst than Genghis Khan, that the war in Iraq is “lost” while my son was part of the surge, then they can go to hell and anyone that believes them can go right along with them. Do you not wonder why those military families don’t want their loved ones photographed? It seems they want to say,”see, I told you war would kill them”. Well folks, this is war and as a parent, I live with it everytime my son deploys. War isn’t pleasant, but our military sons and daughters should have the country behind them, if not,they should get in front of them. The fact that this POS leader can’t make a decision to back up our troops makes me angrier than you could even begin to imagine. Sensationalism at it’s best and I don’t agree with it. I would LOVE to have the ban again on the caskets.
Armymom — thank you so much for taking time to explain your views on this subject. I don’t pretend to know how you must feel since I don’t have a child in the military. I can only tell you I respect your opinion and I am grateful for your sacrifices and for those of your son.
Thank you Portia, I just would not want my loved one photographed for all the world to see. Maybe there are some who do, but I would prefer for it to be a private and solemn moment for my family. I know that there are many in my military mom’s group that feel the same way, and we sure don’t want any politician, from any political party to come around as well. They can stay the hell away. If they truly want to “support” our troops, they’ll quit using them as a political football, give them what they need, and support then when they come home as well.
For someone to say that Obama supports our troops, then why the hell did he want to make them pay for their own insurance, but then want the unions to have the taxpayers pay for theirs? Seems he has his priorities screwed up. He knows that the military guys don’t really support him, and he can get his donations from the unions, like he did this time. We’re not fools.
I wish to hell that Mr. Obobobama would learn to salute in a way that didn’t look like a parody and a paradigm of insincerity. His pose is so out of tune. Like a 9 year old imitating a military parade. And plastic.
Goldengrahame and oowawa: Thanks!
You’re so right about this Daisy Mae,
My first indication of the degree of inexperience we allowed to move into the Whitehouse is seared (thanks John Kerry) into my mind. When Obama first entered Marine One after inauguration, he thrust his inexperienced Chicago local organizing grubby little mit and shook the hand of the horrified and shocked Crew Chief of this aircraft. We now have a President that didn’t feel it pertinent to study and understand these simple procedures of Commander In Chief etiquette? This is merely but one small but glaring indicator of many. If he chose not to understand or can’t understand such basic protocol what else might we expect, what else does he choose not to understand or can’t understand?
Well, we’re now seeing what to expect because it’s upon us.
Seymour
Thanks all for your keen recognition of what is important and what is irrelevant.
When I dropped ‘Dover Base’ into comments, the lines came unstrung and I had to go back often and
rewrite; thus some of my original rhythm flow was lost and ‘footfalls’ became ‘footballs’…but it’s the thought that counts.
I am very familiar with Arnold’s “Dover Beach.” Remains one of my favorites, along with Dylan Thomas’ “Do not go gentle into that good night/ rage, rage against the dying of the light.” He
was speaking of death; but it applies to the dying of freedom in current context.
Had Obama been more experienced the bona fides of this photo op would be more real for me coming from a military family of generations. Obama has no umbilical whatsoever, no brothers, sisters or parents he would have lost in war much less be involved in the military at all. I think he did have an Uncle who did liberate a concentration camp but I know Obama had to reach far on this one.
In summation, we have to live with this man being our President until 2012. By virtue of the office itself and in all 233 years of our history, the world looks upon our leader for influence in principal, character, values and support.
After a one fourth of Obama’s Presidential term now behind him, what has he done but aggravate the electorate? This is not Bush’s, Limbaugh’s, Clinton’s, Carter’s or even Professor Irwin Corey’s world it’s Obama’s. Except for Obama’s pilot fish and those within his own administration, this majority electorate knows he is literally drowning politically. If Obama and his advisors et al., didn’t know the conditions facing this country before hurling a myriad of promises, then shame on them. All previous administrations since Washington allow for extensive open book briefings with those that are running in the general and Obama was no different.
This is the issue. Thus far in his term he has done nothing but spend a trillion of yours and my tax dollars that was as successful as Titanic’s maiden voyage all the while this administration and Congress continue to try and sell more seats.
Seymour
Nice reference to the Titanic, Seymour. Much like the boasts of it’s creators that it was unsinkable, the boasts of team Obama about his potential for greatness will prove to be equally prophetic.
Because of dithering, the troops die.
He won via photoops why shouldn’t he milk it as much as possible..with the help of CNN, MSNBC, CBS and ABC of course, I mean as usual.
Obama is directly responsible for the over-blown exaggeration of his persona, and the marketing of his magnificence around the globe!
So who’s to blame when his humility is questioned?
One, he appears to have no idea how to proceed in Afghanistan.
Two, he appears to be dismissing the evaluation of the very expert he hand-picked.
Three, he appears to be willing to stall and bluff, hoping the situation resolves itself.
The air is leaving the bright, shiny mylar balloon!
Maybe this anti-Obama blog is going crazy from bloodlust. Bush gave up golf for the soldiers?? Uh huh.
I’m sure this from 2003 had nothing to do with it:
Bush, 57, will have an MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) test on Thursday, Dec. 18. The body-scanning device enables doctors to see internal organs in 3D.
The MRI is being performed on the advice of the President’s regular White House physician. Last summer, Bush suffered a minor muscle tear in his right calf and that injury, along with aching knees, forced him to abandon his running routine. The calf strain healed by August when he had his annual physical, but the president said in September that he suspected he had a meniscus tear.
Bush played his last round of golf on October 13, 2003.
Christ, I don’t give a damn about Bush. Just because I don’t like Obama, doesn’t mean I liked Bush as well. But when you have Obama, Kerry, Murtha, talk about our troops like they’re the scourge of the earth, and Obama wanted them to pay for their own healthcare, don’t tell me he gives a damn about our troops just because he made a photo op out of what should have been a private moment. We’re not buying it, get it?
How freakin dense must you bots really be? You expect me, a military mom, to give the dems a pass when they all but call our sons and daughters in the military, “baby killers, and so on? Oh wait, they did call them that. Now you want us to believe that they respect the military? Have another glass of kool-aid bot.
You don’t get out much, do you? Like all good extremists, you paint anyone who isn’t imbibing that blue rotgut with you as being to the right of Francisco Franco. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most here are disaffected Republican and Democratic centrists who are plain sick and tired of you slack-jawed herd followers. So run along, little dogie, there’s a cliff up ahead waiting for you and the rest of the obamabot herd to jump off.