Comments on: Fat Is the New Black! http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/ Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:08:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: xathnealon http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1275225 xathnealon Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:29:50 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1275225 lorac Thank you for that concise and true comment. We are so used to criticizing others, we are condtioned by the media and the entertainment world. The back and forth between PC and badmouthing is enough to put every American on bipolar meds. Shapespeare was right, "Unkindness is the only true deformity." lorac
Thank you for that concise and true comment. We are so used to criticizing others, we are condtioned by the media and the entertainment world. The back and forth between PC and badmouthing is enough to put every American on bipolar meds. Shapespeare was right, “Unkindness is the only true deformity.”

]]> By: Onofre's arm http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1275193 Onofre's arm Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:37:38 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1275193 The numbers in the article you refer to aren't even anecdotal, they're fictional, and utter bullshit, like the rest of the article and it's conclusions. 1. The incomes don't even come close to minimum wage. If they were truly that poor, and had kids, they would qualify for any number of assistance programs. 2. After they paid for rent, food, and utilities, they earmark $600/mo for child support!? That's $7200 a year! How many freakin' kids do they have, 12? 3. Subtract the $3 jar of salsa, and the $1 green pepper (green peppers are tasty, but not a great value) from her "anecdotal" $6.61 pot of vegetarian chili for four, and the price becomes $2.61, or 65 cents per serving instead of $1.65 per serving. Since she used her anecdotal pot of chili as a representative multiplier for an entire grocery budget, there would be a 253% greater difference between her grocerey bill with the souped up chili, and the basic chili meal, assuming that's all they ate. 4. Essentially, ALL of the numbers in her fictional example are skewed in the desired direction (down for income, up for expenditures) to prove her dubious point. 5. ALL of the figures in the article are fictional, the conclusions are based on that fiction, so the the claims that it is impossible for the poor to get adequate diets is in no way logically proven by this nonsense. And you chide me for presenting anecdotes and over-simplifications? Puh-leeze! The numbers in the article you refer to aren’t even anecdotal, they’re fictional, and utter bullshit, like the rest of the article and it’s conclusions.

1. The incomes don’t even come close to minimum wage. If they were truly that poor, and had kids, they would qualify for any number of assistance programs.
2. After they paid for rent, food, and utilities, they earmark $600/mo for child support!? That’s $7200 a year! How many freakin’ kids do they have, 12?
3. Subtract the $3 jar of salsa, and the $1 green pepper (green peppers are tasty, but not a great value) from her “anecdotal” $6.61 pot of vegetarian chili for four, and the price becomes $2.61, or 65 cents per serving instead of $1.65 per serving. Since she used her anecdotal pot of chili as a representative multiplier for an entire grocery budget, there would be a 253% greater difference between her grocerey bill with the souped up chili, and the basic chili meal, assuming that’s all they ate.
4. Essentially, ALL of the numbers in her fictional example are skewed in the desired direction (down for income, up for expenditures) to prove her dubious point.
5. ALL of the figures in the article are fictional, the conclusions are based on that fiction, so the the claims that it is impossible for the poor to get adequate diets is in no way logically proven by this nonsense.

And you chide me for presenting anecdotes and over-simplifications? Puh-leeze!

]]> By: virginian_without_a_party_now http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1275186 virginian_without_a_party_now Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:21:23 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1275186 My fingers slipped and I didn't complete the first link so here it is. Childhood Obesity and Neighborhood Food-Store Availability in an Inner-City Community http://www.academicpedsjnl.net/article/S1876-2859(09)00121-1/abstract My fingers slipped and I didn’t complete the first link so here it is.

Childhood Obesity and Neighborhood Food-Store Availability in an Inner-City Community
http://www.academicpedsjnl.net/article/S1876-2859(09)00121-1/abstract

]]> By: virginian_without_a_party_now http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1275184 virginian_without_a_party_now Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:17:02 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1275184 Based on the discussions here I did a little searching on things like "produce in the inner city" and "grocery stores in the inner city." What is interesting is that there are a lot of articles about the dearth of grocery stores offering healthy choices in many inner cities - within relatively easy commuting and transportation distance. Convenience stores and fast food seem to be much more prevalent. Finally, there was a statistical study done of childhood obesity and proximity to convenience stores and fast food restaurants - there appears to be a statistical link. This doesn't absolve people of personal responsibility and putting their lives in the appropriate perspective (focusing the most on health and well-being of themselves and their children - not that most people don't but this sometimes means giving up other pleasures or making an extra effort) but it would be nice if we as a people stopped the blame game and focused more on making better choices more easily available to everyone. Identifying problems is important but I'm kind of old school - I'd rather fix the problem than fix the blame on someone. Childhood Obesity and Neighborhood Food-Store Availability in an Inner-City Community http://www.academicpedsjnl.net/article/S1876-2859(09)00121-1/abstract Survey: Healthy Foods Absent from City Convenience Stores http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/index.cfm?id=1636 Based on the discussions here I did a little searching on things like “produce in the inner city” and “grocery stores in the inner city.” What is interesting is that there are a lot of articles about the dearth of grocery stores offering healthy choices in many inner cities – within relatively easy commuting and transportation distance. Convenience stores and fast food seem to be much more prevalent. Finally, there was a statistical study done of childhood obesity and proximity to convenience stores and fast food restaurants – there appears to be a statistical link.

This doesn’t absolve people of personal responsibility and putting their lives in the appropriate perspective (focusing the most on health and well-being of themselves and their children – not that most people don’t but this sometimes means giving up other pleasures or making an extra effort) but it would be nice if we as a people stopped the blame game and focused more on making better choices more easily available to everyone. Identifying problems is important but I’m kind of old school – I’d rather fix the problem than fix the blame on someone.

Childhood Obesity and Neighborhood Food-Store Availability in an Inner-City Community
http://www.academicpedsjnl.net/article/S1876-2859(09)00121-1/abstract

Survey: Healthy Foods Absent from City Convenience Stores
http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/news/story/index.cfm?id=1636

]]> By: janicen http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1275157 janicen Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:49:21 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1275157 Anectdotal evidence is meaningless. It's the same evidence the right wingers present to justify their opposition to social programs like Medicare. "Medicare is bad because some people cheat!" I'm not saying all poor people are virtuous and are mereley victims, but evidence (as in the post I directed you to earlier) suggests that there may be more going on than simply that some people are just better and smarter and care more about their health than others. Whole Foods type supermarkets don't locate in poor neighborhoods, not because they hate poor people, but because they don't do enough business there because poor people cannot afford to shop at Whole Foods. There's a reason why the Whole Foods type markets are located in affluent neighborhoods. Affluent people can afford to shop at Whole Foods. You and Michelle Obama can lecture all day long on how all people need to do is "...eat like I do..." but that really is an oversimplification. There are other factors. Anectdotal evidence is meaningless. It’s the same evidence the right wingers present to justify their opposition to social programs like Medicare. “Medicare is bad because some people cheat!” I’m not saying all poor people are virtuous and are mereley victims, but evidence (as in the post I directed you to earlier) suggests that there may be more going on than simply that some people are just better and smarter and care more about their health than others. Whole Foods type supermarkets don’t locate in poor neighborhoods, not because they hate poor people, but because they don’t do enough business there because poor people cannot afford to shop at Whole Foods. There’s a reason why the Whole Foods type markets are located in affluent neighborhoods. Affluent people can afford to shop at Whole Foods. You and Michelle Obama can lecture all day long on how all people need to do is “…eat like I do…” but that really is an oversimplification. There are other factors.

]]> By: Katmoon http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1275123 Katmoon Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:55:17 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1275123 You hit on something here that is rarely discussed, Onofre, cooking. Many people buy prepared food; frozen dinners and the like. I think the ability to cook is waning fast. I don't consider bbq cooking, and have never purchased a prepared potato salad or any other type of salad from a grocery store in my life. We don't eat out that often either, and only order something we normally wouldn't have at home. You can eat very well paring the knowledge of as you explain chicken without the skin and cooking skills. A fresh head of cauliflower goes a lot further than a tiny little frozen package. I make at least one homemade large pot of soup a week in the winter, with left over chicken, fish or pork; beef is eaten rarely. Not cooking in the traditional sense also takes away from a certain family tradition of waiting for dinner to cook, not heat up, the aroma of the meal sets the stage for a good dinner. Along with tobacco and alcohol, I would have to add, soda or pop or pepsi or whatever it is called. Koolaid, twinkies, chips..nasty food, that should be eaten sparingly and as a treat not daily as a food item. You hit on something here that is rarely discussed, Onofre, cooking. Many people buy prepared food; frozen dinners and the like. I think the ability to cook is waning fast. I don’t consider bbq cooking, and have never purchased a prepared potato salad or any other type of salad from a grocery store in my life. We don’t eat out that often either, and only order something we normally wouldn’t have at home. You can eat very well paring the knowledge of as you explain chicken without the skin and cooking skills. A fresh head of cauliflower goes a lot further than a tiny little frozen package. I make at least one homemade large pot of soup a week in the winter, with left over chicken, fish or pork; beef is eaten rarely.
Not cooking in the traditional sense also takes away from a certain family tradition of waiting for dinner to cook, not heat up, the aroma of the meal sets the stage for a good dinner. Along with tobacco and alcohol, I would have to add, soda or pop or pepsi or whatever it is called. Koolaid, twinkies, chips..nasty food, that should be eaten sparingly and as a treat not daily as a food item.

]]> By: Onofre's arm http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1275103 Onofre's arm Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:05:11 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1275103 Using hamburger as your only example of cheap protein helps to support my point. Pound for pound, chicken has just as much protein, and much less fat if you remove the skin, and I could buy boneless, skinless chicken thighs for 1/3 the cost of lean ground beef. Eggs are also cheap protein. And as far as fruit is concerned, bananas are excellent food, and they've always been ridiculously inexpensive. I remember an incident at the Winn-Dixie years ago when I was a proverbial "starving student". I was waiting in line behind a group of people who were obviously--and very vocally--stocking up for a bar-b-q/picnic. They must have slapped two dozen steaks, a half dozen tubs of potato salad, a couple of bags of sirloin burgers, buns, ketchup, and mustard on the conveyor belt. When it was rung up, one of the picnickers pulled out food stamps to pay for it all. I looked down at my cart full of bananas, chicken, rice-a-roni, ramen noodles, tomatoes, milk, eggs, onions, carrots, and canned beans, and did the math. I almost filled my cart with food that cost as much as only three of the steaks going into the bags of the "poverty" party ahead of me, and I of course would have to pay for mine with the money I earned from the almost full time job I had while taking a full load at the university. It gets worse. They did some quick counting and realized that they were one steak short (cousin Jim wanted a steak also) so they sent someone back to get another steak. Still worse, when all of the "food" was paid for with the food stamps, they pushed forward the cart that was full of beer, pop, and cartons of cigaretts that were purchased with the cash that was obviously freed up by the food stamps. This is one of the most graghic examples I've witnessed of the lousy and unethical choices made by the those supposedly living below the poverty line, but it is certainly not the only time I've seen this type of abuse. For a little more than the $8.50 that one super-sized double quarter pounder meal costs, I can crock pot a pork roast with carrots, potatoes, onions, and string beans that will feed me and my two boys two night's worth of filling dinners. We RARELY eat out, I can't bear the thought of paying for one meal the amount of money that will feed my family for a week. So, don't lecture me on the impossibility of the poor affording adequate diets. I'll bet that 9 out of 10 of the adults in this catagory also drink alcohol, or smoke, or both, and just one parent will devote enough resources to these habits that could more appropriately feed several kids. Using hamburger as your only example of cheap protein helps to support my point. Pound for pound, chicken has just as much protein, and much less fat if you remove the skin, and I could buy boneless, skinless chicken thighs for 1/3 the cost of lean ground beef. Eggs are also cheap protein. And as far as fruit is concerned, bananas are excellent food, and they’ve always been ridiculously inexpensive.

I remember an incident at the Winn-Dixie years ago when I was a proverbial “starving student”. I was waiting in line behind a group of people who were obviously–and very vocally–stocking up for a bar-b-q/picnic. They must have slapped two dozen steaks, a half dozen tubs of potato salad, a couple of bags of sirloin burgers, buns, ketchup, and mustard on the conveyor belt. When it was rung up, one of the picnickers pulled out food stamps to pay for it all. I looked down at my cart full of bananas, chicken, rice-a-roni, ramen noodles, tomatoes, milk, eggs, onions, carrots, and canned beans, and did the math. I almost filled my cart with food that cost as much as only three of the steaks going into the bags of the “poverty” party ahead of me, and I of course would have to pay for mine with the money I earned from the almost full time job I had while taking a full load at the university. It gets worse. They did some quick counting and realized that they were one steak short (cousin Jim wanted a steak also) so they sent someone back to get another steak. Still worse, when all of the “food” was paid for with the food stamps, they pushed forward the cart that was full of beer, pop, and cartons of cigaretts that were purchased with the cash that was obviously freed up by the food stamps.

This is one of the most graghic examples I’ve witnessed of the lousy and unethical choices made by the those supposedly living below the poverty line, but it is certainly not the only time I’ve seen this type of abuse.

For a little more than the $8.50 that one super-sized double quarter pounder meal costs, I can crock pot a pork roast with carrots, potatoes, onions, and string beans that will feed me and my two boys two night’s worth of filling dinners. We RARELY eat out, I can’t bear the thought of paying for one meal the amount of money that will feed my family for a week. So, don’t lecture me on the impossibility of the poor affording adequate diets. I’ll bet that 9 out of 10 of the adults in this catagory also drink alcohol, or smoke, or both, and just one parent will devote enough resources to these habits that could more appropriately feed several kids.

]]> By: Linda Anselmi http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1275057 Linda Anselmi Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:14:39 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1275057 Another inhibiting factor of fresh fruits and vegetables - they are highly perishable. If they are not eaten within days, they go bad. For a family on a limited budget it doesn't seem to make economic sense to weekly toss a chunk of the food budget in the garbage. Another inhibiting factor of fresh fruits and vegetables – they are highly perishable. If they are not eaten within days, they go bad. For a family on a limited budget it doesn’t seem to make economic sense to weekly toss a chunk of the food budget in the garbage.

]]> By: Tricia http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1275040 Tricia Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:50:11 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1275040 I agree again with janicen. My family made a commitment to eat health only about a year ago. Organics and good protein, low fat. <strong>It is VERY expensive, enough so to cause to us have to cut back in other ways. </strong>Organic fruits and veggies are wonderful, at least a third again as much. Organic milk and butter are far superior tasting, but almost twice as much. Fish, organic chicken, free range and organic eggs, grain-fed beef, good quality nuts, are twice the amount of their less healthy counterparts. I would also toss in the factor of being so busy--coming home from work exhausted. To start a meal from scratch is really more than one can face sometimes, especially if you pass a great pizza place on the way home or have a couple of pot pies to stick into the microwave. Having said that, one can learn to become more creative--e.g., crock pot meals started in the morning, more use of high protein less expensive stuff (beans). But, still, you can't live on just beans. I agree again with janicen.

My family made a commitment to eat health only about a year ago. Organics and good protein, low fat. It is VERY expensive, enough so to cause to us have to cut back in other ways. Organic fruits and veggies are wonderful, at least a third again as much. Organic milk and butter are far superior tasting, but almost twice as much. Fish, organic chicken, free range and organic eggs, grain-fed beef, good quality nuts, are twice the amount of their less healthy counterparts.

I would also toss in the factor of being so busy–coming home from work exhausted. To start a meal from scratch is really more than one can face sometimes, especially if you pass a great pizza place on the way home or have a couple of pot pies to stick into the microwave.

Having said that, one can learn to become more creative–e.g., crock pot meals started in the morning, more use of high protein less expensive stuff (beans). But, still, you can’t live on just beans.

]]> By: Ladydawnelle http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1274987 Ladydawnelle Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:08:07 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1274987 When they killed off my thyroid finally my weight started to go up - I've managed to stop it and decrease it somewhat but you are sooo correct - at 53 and being disabled it's really hard to find the energy to work out. Thank GOD I take the dog out 50 TIMES A DAY (lol it seems) or I'd become a potted plant. (snicker) taking a lot of meds doesn't help either. When they killed off my thyroid finally my weight started to go up – I’ve managed to stop it and decrease it somewhat but you are sooo correct – at 53 and being disabled it’s really hard to find the energy to work out. Thank GOD I take the dog out 50 TIMES A DAY (lol it seems) or I’d become a potted plant. (snicker) taking a lot of meds doesn’t help either.

]]> By: Sassy http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1274982 Sassy Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:57:54 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1274982 LadyD, I right there with you on needing to drop a few pounds. Up until my late forties, I could drop 3 to 5 pounds in a good workout or ballgame. Since then, I struggle to lose those pounds unless it is 90 degrees when I do yardwork. As some discussed upthread, I do think that lower income people have a harder time, for many of the filling, larger quantity dishes are very high calorie and fat content. The most expensive items we purchase are fresh fruits and vegetables. LadyD, I right there with you on needing to drop a few pounds.
Up until my late forties, I could drop 3 to 5 pounds in a good workout or ballgame.
Since then, I struggle to lose those pounds unless it is 90 degrees when I do yardwork.
As some discussed upthread, I do think that lower income people have a harder time, for many of the filling, larger quantity dishes are very high calorie and fat content.
The most expensive items we purchase are fresh fruits and vegetables.

]]> By: Elizabeth http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1274975 Elizabeth Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:45:23 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1274975 The obesity epidemic globally is more likely a complex product of rising incomes, economic growth, urbanization etc coupled with a shift towards less physically demanding work and diets with a higher proportion of fats, saturated fats and sugars. It doesn't explain the massive rise since 1980 in the US. Poverty has gone up a few percentage points. The number of overweight and obese adults has more than doubled. The obesity epidemic globally is more likely a complex product of rising incomes, economic growth, urbanization etc coupled with a shift towards less physically demanding work and diets with a higher proportion of fats, saturated fats and sugars.

It doesn’t explain the massive rise since 1980 in the US. Poverty has gone up a few percentage points. The number of overweight and obese adults has more than doubled.

]]> By: Ladydawnelle http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1274972 Ladydawnelle Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:34:00 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1274972 I don't know if that analogy works. Probably 90 percent of the people I know I would consider somewhat fat. But the "black population" is supposedly only what? 12 or 13 percent? how about <em>FAT is New American</em>? I too need to lose some FAT! Little by little, day by day. I don’t know if that analogy works.

Probably 90 percent of the people I know I would consider somewhat fat. But the “black population” is supposedly only what? 12 or 13 percent?

how about FAT is New American?

I too need to lose some FAT! Little by little, day by day.

]]> By: beebop http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1274963 beebop Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:54:01 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1274963 No offense taken. I just think we all could use a little bit of "everything in moderation, nothing to excess." Don't know where I read that, but it seemed sensible. No offense taken.

I just think we all could use a little bit of “everything in moderation, nothing to excess.” Don’t know where I read that, but it seemed sensible.

]]> By: janicen http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/11/08/fat-is-the-new-black/#comment-1274958 janicen Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:29:17 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=35796#comment-1274958 I meant to say, "...to eat a healthy diet and be able to maintain a calory level for themselves and their families that will provide them with the energy to survive..." I meant to say, “…to eat a healthy diet and be able to maintain a calory level for themselves and their families that will provide them with the energy to survive…”

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