Editor’s Note: On Sundays at 11:00 ET, Larry Johnson joins the “experts panel” weekly on my West Coast syndicated radio show. Listen TONIGHT via KFI-AM. Here is an excerpt from tonight’s schedule:
Sunday 1105P: (805P Pacific Time): Larry Johnson, No Quarter, James Taranto, WSJ, Jeff Bliss, BlissIndex.com, re KS M in Manhattan, re Greg Craig quits. Sunday 1120P: (820P Pacific Time): Continued re Afghanistan twists in the wind.
Bad Idea.
Forty hours after the news that Attorney General Eric Holder has ordered Khalid Sheik Mohammed and his cronies removed from GITMO to NYC to be tried at Foley Square in a Federal Court, the buzz is getting louder and more political in the Big Apple.Rudy Giuliani says bad idea, “This confirms my worst expectations for the Obama administration, that they would be in denial with regard the danger of Islamic terrorism.” Mike Bloomberg says it is less than a bad idea but somehow does not argue that it is a good idea,since Bloomberg does not do ideology or partisanship. Former Attny General Mike Mukasey says bad idea, very bad idea. Congressman Peter King remarks, “This is as bad a decision as any president ever made.”
KSM Speaks.
Ed Hayes told me Saturday 14 that the decision to move the KSM trial to New York is fraught with risk. The first risk is that the five of the cronies will be tried together, and one or more of them may escape conviction because of the abuse scenario at GITMO the last seven years. Another risk is that KSM will likely use the rial as a forum for his sadistic rubbish and whip up the jihadist groupies worldwide with exaggerated claims of being a hero for Islam who did not different that the American generals and president whom bomb innocents overseas — the kind of facile moral equivalency that usually excites the genius mass-murders of the world. Another risk is that the jihadists will launch a terror attack on New York. Ed Hayes regards this attack scenario as most credible. Ed Hayes also believes that the families of the 9-11 dead will be a major factor in the drama of the trial in New York. Ed believes that moving the trial from New York makes sense — similar to McVeigh’s trial moved from Oklahoma to Denver — but is uncertain that it will happen. Ed mentioned that the defense counsel will face the dilemma of deciding if they should cooperate in KSM’s possible exploitation and manipulation of the trial.
Ed’s sharpest concern is that the evidence in the trial will have the taint of being a product of torture, and that in the eliciting of the details of the water-boarding, the defense will both create sympathy for the accused and also put the United States on trial to the Ummah and Europe and Asia.
Intelligence Risk.
There is an additional risk that it hard to judge in that KSM and his four were detained and interrogated using unknown sources from many directions. KSM was grabbed in Pakistan by unknown agents and transported without known legal authority by US forces to be incarcerated without any known legal rights for seven years. There looks to be a mountain of information built up over this time that KSM’s defense counsel could reasonably expect to examine. This is a death penalty case. Perhaps KSM will do the favor of pleading guilty for himself and his cronies (which he did last December in a military court hearing at GITMO) and then sit down and vegetate. Seems unlikely, but he might. Perhaps the Obama administration will get lucky and the trial will last two weeks in February and will go away by Mardi Gras. Perhaps all those NYPD on overtime will enjoy the hours.
It’s the Air Force One flyby all over again. And when it gets thrown out of court or not guilty because of torture-coerced confessions, they’ll blame it on Bush. That is, if the island isn’t flattened first by a Irano-Paki suitcase nuke.
Oh, and there’s a splinter cell living in that beard.
What worries me is the possibility the trial will be televised. It’s apparent the BO administration wants every opportunity to embarrass and deride the Bush admininstration. What could be easier than letting the whole world have a front-row seat? And what could be more dangerous?
On the other hand, what a gift it might be to extremist propagandists to give them a closed trial by military tribunal followed by military executions. They could all the more easily portray murderers as martyrs.
These people are prisoners of the military, but we shouldn’t cast any thin appearance of legitimacy on their cause or actions by treating them as military prisoners. They’re not soldiers.
My son and his family lived and worked in NYC then, too. They have moved to Westchester now, but son/wife still work mid-town. Scary, scary for them and all others nearby.
They were and profess to be “Soldiers of Allah”, that makes them combatants, Ziggy.
Obama can not remove the wall between domestic and international intelligence to prosecute this case. He can attempt to go around it like predessesor, but will not be able to. It is not a vailid avenue to explore Constutional questions. Never the less, ANY result will end up in the laps of SCOTUS. While there is (from a legal laymans POV) ample pitfalls in this case, what precedence may be set will set the course for sometime to come in dealing with Soldiers, who occupy the battle field of ideology, rather than a material difference between nation states.
We saw how the court ruled on Hammdan Vs Rummmy.
What is kryponite to a martyr? “Gemmie some”.??
Liptak also notes the judge has “hinted” that he may allow cameras in the courtroom for the trial, which would be an extremely rare move, especially in federal court.
Perhaps Court TV will petition the court to try to get this televised if the court refused to, due to their normal practice not to allow TV cameras?
I heard today that that court does not permit televised trials, so thankfully we will be spared that. So, I predict we’ll see countless drawings of the defendants and lengthy news articles and TV reports.
Comment by Seriously Sick of Obama
| 2009-11-15 18:00:15
Seriously?? Are they 12 people in the US that will not go with GUILTY? This is another way for ManChild N Chief to ensure his Muslims brothers go free!! Remember Rev. Wright saying we got what we deserved..The chickens coming home to roost was his exact words and Obami sat there in that church nodding his head and saying AMEN..oh..I forgot..he wasn’t there that day..RIGHT??!!! You ARE an idiot if you don’t believe Obambi thinks the same way. I AM Just disgusted!!! These families will never have closure or justice! IF U VOTED FOR THIS MAN…SHAME ON YOU!!
Obama was too much of a coward to even be in the same country when Holder made the announcement.
He is clearly doing this to put the Bush Administration on trial for the 2010 and the 2012 election. He is also doing it to prove to radical Islamists that he does not regard the September 11th attack as an act of war but as an isolated criminal act or felony.
It has not be widely reported but Obama got the Illinois Democratic Senate nomination by outing Blair Hull’s divorce records and then Jack Ryan’s sealed divorce records in the general election.
Unlike past Presidents who we have agreed or disagreed with, none abused the Oval Office for personal gain as much as this guy, including placing our country in danger.
Obama was too much of a coward to even be in the same country when Holder made the announcement.
He’s gallivanting around China, instead of dealing with more pressing matters critical to our nation such as the lack of jobs. That’s because the poser leader doesn’t know what the fuck he is doing.
A. Who, exactly, would be “a jury of their peers”?
B. How are you going to find enough unbiased and uncontaminated (legally speaking) for these alledged terrorists in NYC? Not that I really think them innocent, but there has not yet been a trial.
C. How much of the evidence against them was not acquired by “enhanced interrogation methods” (which would be inadmissable in court)?
im sure a “jury of his peers” will have to include some muslims .obama will make this all about him and how he prosecuted the terroristsfor all the world to see..thus making himself the “hero”. wouldnt it be something if the were cut loose (in N.Y. yet) for some stupid legality? (could this be obamas actual motive?) to use his own words “if the political winds should shift..i will stand with the muslims” do americans have to be hit over the head with a hammer to see this fakir-in-chief for what he really is? also do you think those 9/11 murderers deserve to see the carnage they created so they can gloat.
Comment by Obamastolemycountry
| 2009-11-15 18:43:52
I just don’t understand this. Isn’t there someone in this administration who will stand up and tell the people that Obama is a fraud and liar and Bill clinton was impeached over a lie so why not Obama? This American hating mentality of his and his buddies is very much cause for impeachment, and if not, lying has been in the past. How many freakin’ lies do we need for crying out loud??????? Really this ought to be quite enough now!!!
He was probably “just campaigning”… so there you go. All is fair in campaigning right? That is is “game” isn’t it. His “game” is what tingles legs across America. But he isn’t the first President who was full of it. He is at least the fourth consecutive President who was full of it going back to “read my lips” and “what the definition of is-is”.
But he isn’t the first President who was full of it.
Sadly, this trait is not just of most politicians, but most of the human species as well. I don’t know why people expect any different of their politicians than they do of themselves. Something to ponder.
I have said several times… our current President isn’t so much a disease as he is a symptom of a disease. If it weren’t him, it would be some other shill plying their trade. So this one is historic. Rah rah. The thing is, are we going to wake up as a people, or are we going down for good at some point?
Humanity has a sad history of only addressing systemic flaws only after a collapse of a given system. On its present course, this current “empire” will have its Nero fiddling away as it collapses the same fate of every other historical “empire.”
“YES WE CAN” IF WE ELECT ENOUGH REPUBLICANS IN 2010 THEN WE CAN STOP HIM IN HIS TRACKS. IMPEACHMENT MIGHT THEN BECOME A REAL POSSIBLILITY. “BUT..BUT..UHMM…UHH..I WON.”
KSM isn’t being tried so much as this is a way to disseminate anti Bush-Cheney propaganda. Oh yes, legs will tingle as news of torture again make the headline news. For some the left leg, some the right leg and for many network anchors… the middle one. Meanwhile, nobody in Chicago cares one way or another if NYC gets hit again… so long as they can somehow blame it on Bush. Another day another crisis. More drama for Obama. Whatever puts his face on the TV and helps his cronies get theirs.
I think we should get a petition going to have it held in Chicago,they seem to have a lot of experience with high level defendants ,at least former politicians.
Gov. David Paterson openly criticized the White House on Monday, saying he thought it was a terrible idea to move alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other suspected terrorists to New York for trial.
“This is not a decision that I would have made. I think terrorism isn’t just attack, it’s anxiety and I think you feel the anxiety and frustration of New Yorkers who took the bullet for the rest of the country,” he said.
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Would they have tried this in Chicago?
It’s the Air Force One flyby all over again. And when it gets thrown out of court or not guilty because of torture-coerced confessions, they’ll blame it on Bush. That is, if the island isn’t flattened first by a Irano-Paki suitcase nuke.
Oh, and there’s a splinter cell living in that beard.
“Would they have tried this in Chicago?”
HA! Really.
What worries me is the possibility the trial will be televised. It’s apparent the BO administration wants every opportunity to embarrass and deride the Bush admininstration. What could be easier than letting the whole world have a front-row seat? And what could be more dangerous?
On the other hand, what a gift it might be to extremist propagandists to give them a closed trial by military tribunal followed by military executions. They could all the more easily portray murderers as martyrs.
These people are prisoners of the military, but we shouldn’t cast any thin appearance of legitimacy on their cause or actions by treating them as military prisoners. They’re not soldiers.
i live in nj..many people from this area were murdered that day…my husband and brother-in-law were in manhatten on 9/11.
ziggy, take your party line points and shove them up your ass.
My son and his family lived and worked in NYC then, too. They have moved to Westchester now, but son/wife still work mid-town. Scary, scary for them and all others nearby.
I have no clue what part of that comment was a “party line point”.
They were and profess to be “Soldiers of Allah”, that makes them combatants, Ziggy.
Obama can not remove the wall between domestic and international intelligence to prosecute this case. He can attempt to go around it like predessesor, but will not be able to. It is not a vailid avenue to explore Constutional questions. Never the less, ANY result will end up in the laps of SCOTUS. While there is (from a legal laymans POV) ample pitfalls in this case, what precedence may be set will set the course for sometime to come in dealing with Soldiers, who occupy the battle field of ideology, rather than a material difference between nation states.
We saw how the court ruled on Hammdan Vs Rummmy.
What is kryponite to a martyr? “Gemmie some”.??
Only state courts allow that in certain states.
Correction: federal trials being televised are “extremely rare” according to this article:
http://www.businessinsider.com/gay-marriage-trial-could-be-televised-2009-10
Perhaps Court TV will petition the court to try to get this televised if the court refused to, due to their normal practice not to allow TV cameras?
I heard today that that court does not permit televised trials, so thankfully we will be spared that. So, I predict we’ll see countless drawings of the defendants and lengthy news articles and TV reports.
Seriously?? Are they 12 people in the US that will not go with GUILTY? This is another way for ManChild N Chief to ensure his Muslims brothers go free!! Remember Rev. Wright saying we got what we deserved..The chickens coming home to roost was his exact words and Obami sat there in that church nodding his head and saying AMEN..oh..I forgot..he wasn’t there that day..RIGHT??!!! You ARE an idiot if you don’t believe Obambi thinks the same way. I AM Just disgusted!!! These families will never have closure or justice! IF U VOTED FOR THIS MAN…SHAME ON YOU!!
The NYPD and Fire Fighters should declare they will walk off of the job - PERIOD!
Obama is a “cowardly piece of shit” that has no problem putting others at risk.
My hair is falling out on top from all of this BS!
CAROL HAKA
Obama was too much of a coward to even be in the same country when Holder made the announcement.
He is clearly doing this to put the Bush Administration on trial for the 2010 and the 2012 election. He is also doing it to prove to radical Islamists that he does not regard the September 11th attack as an act of war but as an isolated criminal act or felony.
It has not be widely reported but Obama got the Illinois Democratic Senate nomination by outing Blair Hull’s divorce records and then Jack Ryan’s sealed divorce records in the general election.
Unlike past Presidents who we have agreed or disagreed with, none abused the Oval Office for personal gain as much as this guy, including placing our country in danger.
He’s gallivanting around China, instead of dealing with more pressing matters critical to our nation such as the lack of jobs. That’s because the poser leader doesn’t know what the fuck he is doing.
well said, Carol….not the hair part though
I had a couple of really bad days last week from these guys and I had to walk away and declare, I will not let these losers hurt me this way!
The NY firefighters have a petition protesting this.
A. Who, exactly, would be “a jury of their peers”?
B. How are you going to find enough unbiased and uncontaminated (legally speaking) for these alledged terrorists in NYC? Not that I really think them innocent, but there has not yet been a trial.
C. How much of the evidence against them was not acquired by “enhanced interrogation methods” (which would be inadmissable in court)?
That should have been “uncontaminated (legally speaking) jurors“.
im sure a “jury of his peers” will have to include some muslims .obama will make this all about him and how he prosecuted the terroristsfor all the world to see..thus making himself the “hero”. wouldnt it be something if the were cut loose (in N.Y. yet) for some stupid legality? (could this be obamas actual motive?) to use his own words “if the political winds should shift..i will stand with the muslims” do americans have to be hit over the head with a hammer to see this fakir-in-chief for what he really is? also do you think those 9/11 murderers deserve to see the carnage they created so they can gloat.
I just don’t understand this. Isn’t there someone in this administration who will stand up and tell the people that Obama is a fraud and liar and Bill clinton was impeached over a lie so why not Obama? This American hating mentality of his and his buddies is very much cause for impeachment, and if not, lying has been in the past. How many freakin’ lies do we need for crying out loud??????? Really this ought to be quite enough now!!!
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/11/sedition-oliar-busted-bombshell-uncovered-obama-said-on-the-senate-floor-khalid-sheikh-mohammed-is-g.html
He was probably “just campaigning”… so there you go. All is fair in campaigning right? That is is “game” isn’t it. His “game” is what tingles legs across America. But he isn’t the first President who was full of it. He is at least the fourth consecutive President who was full of it going back to “read my lips” and “what the definition of is-is”.
Sadly, this trait is not just of most politicians, but most of the human species as well. I don’t know why people expect any different of their politicians than they do of themselves. Something to ponder.
I have said several times… our current President isn’t so much a disease as he is a symptom of a disease. If it weren’t him, it would be some other shill plying their trade. So this one is historic. Rah rah. The thing is, are we going to wake up as a people, or are we going down for good at some point?
Humanity has a sad history of only addressing systemic flaws only after a collapse of a given system. On its present course, this current “empire” will have its Nero fiddling away as it collapses the same fate of every other historical “empire.”
Can we change the course is the question…
“YES WE CAN” IF WE ELECT ENOUGH REPUBLICANS IN 2010 THEN WE CAN STOP HIM IN HIS TRACKS. IMPEACHMENT MIGHT THEN BECOME A REAL POSSIBLILITY. “BUT..BUT..UHMM…UHH..I WON.”
ever think that the populous does it because the leaders of our country do. if its ok for them..then it must be ok for us.
In 2006, Obama thought military trials were a great idea.
http://www.breitbart.tv/bombshell-uncovered-obama-statement-ksm-will-get-full-military-trial/
KSM isn’t being tried so much as this is a way to disseminate anti Bush-Cheney propaganda. Oh yes, legs will tingle as news of torture again make the headline news. For some the left leg, some the right leg and for many network anchors… the middle one. Meanwhile, nobody in Chicago cares one way or another if NYC gets hit again… so long as they can somehow blame it on Bush. Another day another crisis. More drama for Obama. Whatever puts his face on the TV and helps his cronies get theirs.
I think we should get a petition going to have it held in Chicago,they seem to have a lot of experience with high level defendants ,at least former politicians.
Does Chicago have the rule of law and a court system?
http://wcbstv.com/politics/911.trial.paterson.2.1316155.html
September 11th attacks was not an act of war but act to make a new world order.