“One of the great strategic blunders in Presidential political history”

But should he fail — and I remain petrified that he might — his campaign’s decision not to find common ground on legitimate primaries in Michigan and Florida will be rightly seen as one of the great strategic blunders in Presidential political history.

You know, you’d think this would be self evident.

I am simply stunned and amazed at the stupidity, and willful need to deny.

I’m more petrified of an Obama win than a McCain win. At least I have a reasonable idea of the kind of people McCain will surround himself with, and I may disagree with them, but they are not lunatics.

The people Obama will surround himself with? God knows. And I don’t want to find out. All I can look at is who he has chosen to associate himself with for the past twenty years. I don’t want those people anywhere near power.

I will tell many here, i know many dems in Fla who are now saying they will send a message to Howard Dean and the Dem party in Nov if our delegation is not seated and allowed to count in picking the nominee..they will write in Mickey Mouse in Nov…and i will join them!

Many are lifelong Dems and the working dems ,.who are now past frustration and are in 100% anger!

Most would not vote McCain, but they want to send a strong message to dean and his bunch of idiots!

We are past the calling and getting hung up on by the DNC and the Senators and congress people who told us our votes should count in 2000, 2002, 2004, and 2006…and yet they did nothing about getting rid of the corrupt voting machines.

When our citizens did it, we are all punished for it, because the repigs added the amendment to that bill with the Primary date change..yes indeed the repigs knew exactly what they were doing..and the stupid ass Howard Dean fell for it hook line and sinker..and this man is leading the dem party??????? and we let him???????????/

where is the national outrage among dems?????????

oh yes no one knows the full truth do they????????

Where are all the so called activists who wanted Voter Verified Paper Ballots?? where are their voices on this?? oh yes..mute..jusyt like Move on stayed away from the subject for so long, and Daily Kos stayed away from the subject , but in the very late stages they allowed a little posing on the voting machine debokle…

so who are these people really working against?

yes you

you and me, and voters nationwide..they are all frauds to me now..they are blow hard frauds!

Howard Dean planned on this scenerio last may when this bill was signed because it was then ..last may that Dean began pushing Florida dn the FDP to have
caucus’s..the fix was in then folks!

And you really think this just came about? bullshit..Dean had this planned last year! He was going to steal the votes in Fla by trying to force us into a caucus then..he knew the fix was in for the caucus’s..he was the fixer!

Talk about digging one’s own grave.

I’m re-reading Watson’s post — there’s so much there that it requires very careful reading — and I cannot believe that Pelosi, Dean and Obama’s campaign don’t get the enormity of the problem.

(I suppose they think they’ve got it all figured out — that they’ll placate Michigan and Florida with some 50/50 split at the convention. But they won’t be able to erase the months and months of anger and frustration that the Democrats in those states have experienced, as well as the anger of REAL Democrats in other states who’ve watched this mess unfold.)

sorry for my typo’s i got a phone call in middle of posting!!

Susan:

That’s why they tried so hard to force Hillary to quit now.

That way the remaining primaries wouldn’t matter, Obama would win running unopposed (his favorite way to run) and he could generously agree to seat both delegations as-is.

Then all 50 states (plus DC and the territories) could unanimously elect Obama.

Unity ponies for everybody!

But Hillary refused to quit and now Dean & Co are between a rock and a hard place.

If Obama gets 50% of the Michigan delegates, where his name was not on the ballot, and 50% of the Florida delegates, where he received 32% of the vote, I hope those states spit in Howard Dean’s eye and tell him where he can stick his “compromise.”

Hey, I didn’t win the Powerball last week, because I didn’t buy a ticket. I feel morally entitled to half the jackpot though.

I guess what this whole mess demonstrates is that the Dems can’t quite close the deal, they were awfuly vocal when not in power; the underdogs and we could bitch and complain, support the dems and give money to further our progressive causes, but it turns out that they are no different than they’re friends the republicans. how to account for this? I don’t know. How do you explain corruption? I’m beyond anger, it’s plain disgust and true sadness. I hear your anger and passion. I’m here with you. It’s nice to simply know that I’m not alone in talking to myself in endless circles about this madness.

Then they will anger those of us who live in state like North Carolina, Indiana, etc. We deserve a voice, too!

Also tell them they will get no $$$ from you. They listen to that.

absolutely! I do not fund the Dem party any more. I will only give to cadidates.

YES! And those fantastic people in Kentucky who vote on May 20th … if you haven’t seen that video, check it out.

Kentucky. Where the latest poll shows this:

“A new SurveyUSA poll in Kentucky shows Sen. Hillary Clinton crushing Sen. Barack Obama, 58% to 29%, in the closed Democratic primary to be held on May 20.” The headline reads, “SurveyUSA: Obama Not Competitive in Kentucky.”

No problemo. You came through loud and clear!

STRICTLY OT BUT IMPORTANT: If any of you post a comment, and it does not appear immediately, e-mail me, with your username, at susanunpc at gmail dot com

The good folks who keep WordPress running have had an issue recently with the spam blocker. They are working on it. But sometimes your posts are ending up in the spam filter. I can rescue your posts if you’ll e-mail me. I can also wade through the spam, but it takes forever — we get close to 1,000 spam comments every day, and it is very slow-going (as well as depressing to read the ugly sex site posts).

However, if you e-mail me with your USERNAME — the name that you use when you post comments here — I can quickly search the entire spam filter and restore your comments.

Maybe it’s time for us “lunch bucket” Democrats to get together with the “cloth coat” Republicans and tell both parties to get lost.

The “elite” on both sides know that they need all us little peons and so try every 4 years to placate us with some happy talk and scraps from the table and then get back to screwing the country. (Actually it’s more like rape cause they don’t hug, don’t kiss and don’t have permission.)

Disenfranchising voters is not only wrong, which progressives used to believe before they decided that their candidate was more important than their integrity, it’s stupid. What part of trying not to enrage people you need to vote for you do they not understand?

If you didn’t read this you really should. It explains a lot. http://anglachelg.blogspot.com/

Well done Susan!

no they won’t i have stopped giving $$..they don’t care..they want the WH with their neoliberal..more of the New World order..but with the liberal to finish it off!

Leo Strauss knew it needed to be done with Neo Cons as well as Neo Liberals..

Look at what Dean has done and who is follwoing him ..look into the backgrounds of who is on Obama’s team..all his advisors..

Hell we have had many top$$ people in Fla demanding their money back from the DNC,,does that shut up Pelosi?..or Dodd or Leahy..forget Kerry and Kennedy..

and where is Kerry on all of this? he sent lawyers to Fla for our election in 2004..then he collected what around 15 mil$$ saying he was going to count all the votes..bullshit..he didn’t then and he doesn’t give a shit now..how do i know..i call his office almost daily..asking when he is going to use my money i sent him in 2004 to count our votes then..to count them now..

these people are not working for us..they have their agenda..and they don’t give a rats ass about us!

If they did, they would have done something about these voting machines, instead of telling us in Fla for 8 years to be quiet ..about the fraud going on here with our elections and voting machines.

But i digress..where are all the voting advocates now? ..where are all the people who have screamed and yelled for Voter Verified Paper ballots ..standing beside us in Fla who are the only state to get this bill and ban the DRE voting machines and get mandated Voter Verified Paper Ballots for the 2008 election!

the only state in the entire nation to do so for the 2008 election…

oh yeah we got punished for that by Mr Howard Dean..and the ignorant Donna Brazile!

The dems deserve to lose…you can not be this stupid and win.

And the Dems deserve to lose because as a voting block, we have not stopped Dean from his own foolishness, and stupidity , for trying to fix this election!

Take the time to know who Obama’s advisors are..and know they will also not be working for you, or your democratic principles.

But if Hillary “quit” it wouldn’t be their fault that Obama was now running unopposed.

Survey USA shows Barack Obama carrying Illinois, DC, and Hawaii against John McCain. McCain wins the Electoral College 510 – 28. Well, Obama might not do as well as Dukakis, but he sure can hold his own against McGovern and Mondale!

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/1/133137/0400

In the interim, so much dirt has been exposed in regard to the inner workings of the DNC, as well as the ineptness of Dean and Pelosi, I really won’t be able to support the organization until it’s cleaned up.

I hope someone recognizes the need for good government, and starts to rebuild.

They strike me as corrupt, and stupid.

What happened to Massachusetts, the Democrats’ state that even McGovern carried in 1972?

This just upsets me to no end. It seems as if Howard Dean has lost all capability to see what is right in front of his eyes. It’s embarrasing. The party’s hopes for November are circling the drain and he wants all of us to just “SHUT UP”. Classy.

WILL OF THE PEOPLE VS. WILL OF THE MEDIA

I think it is pretty clear from the Texas caucuses that the caucus format significantly under represents the number of voters who would vote for Senator Clinton in a standard election.

Given this fact – that a significant group of voters is basically disenfranchised by caucuses (older voters and working class voters) – why have we not had a discussion of this in the press?

We may have a nominee – if Obama technically wins the delegate count – who is not backed by the will of the democratic electorate.

If Obama supporters claim that Obama is backed by the will of the people, I think it is necessary to define exactly how the will of the people is determined.

I think a statistical measurement of this would conclude clearly that Senator Clinton is backed by the will of the Democratic electorate.

As one of the silent majority, I’m not going to be too keen on voting for the candidate who brilliantly gamed the system. We current have one of those in the White House.

I have a first-person account that others here at No Quarter are aware of. I was unable to attend my caucus because I was in the hospital. Worse than that, all of my nurses and the medical technicians and janitors — all of whom wanted to vote that day — could not attend either because they had to work.

It’s an idiotic and unfair system. But the party elders who control everything just love it. They have been besieged by complaints, but remain stubborn on keeping the caucus system. Democracy be damned.

This is not my expertise but I’d like someone explore the psychological disadvantage Hillary, her supporters and GOTV teams have had to operate under with the Florida and Michigan votes discounted from her win column. What kind of an impact has this had on voters, polling, and subsequent races? Huge is my guess.

Susan — in a way I wish I had the hospital excuse — but I attended and WISH I were in the hospital.

It was pure hell — caucus was filled with Obamabots. All in one place all the idiots — playing all the Obamabot games in one place.

So any Obamabot who says he caucused for Obama is now my enemy.

That caucus experience put me in the group of — WILL NEVER VOTE FOR OBAMA FOR ANYTHING and especially for Prez.

Anyone who can gather so many nasty, lying, bullies is BAD NEWS. So

I will never get over that caucus experience — at least you don’t have the horrible caucus memories.

Have to agree – I’ve always preferred the straight vote over the caucus system. Hopefully this will put another nail in it’s coffin once and for all.

Hey, I can dream cant I?

1 person, 1 vote.

I think I might have an answer for the MI and FL delegates being seated. If the DNC want to allot 50%/50% to both candidates let them. But of the delegates that are apportioned to Obama they won’t be commited delegates therefore during the convention they will be free to choose their own nominee, i.e. Hillary. And remember, they are already pissed at Obama so it just might be a complete sweep for Hillary. God make it so.

You are correct. It would have been very depressing and horrifying to witness.

It was bad enough when I went to the 2004 caucus and was told by Kerry-bots that they were voting for him because he was “electable.” When pressed, they had no other reason for supporting him.

Kevin is correct. One person, one vote.

And it certainly was reflected in the stark differences between the results of the state caucuses (62+% for Obama) and the state primary ballot vote (barely 50% for Obama), but which the state Democrats refused to count. At least the state Republican party allocated a percentage of delegates to the results of the state ballot primary. The Democrats awarded delegates solely on the result of the caucuses.

NW Rain, like you, I am fed up. I’m through.

And let’s not get into Gov. Christine Gregoire. Does she really think that Dino Rossi won’t use her endorsement of Obama against her in the general election this fall? He’ll exploit it at every opportunity. She has the advantage of being the incumbent, but she is vulnerable. Very vulnerable.

Plans are being made to deal with this loser.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) on Tuesday threw his weight behind a plan to have superdelegates in the Democratic presidential primary make their votes public by July 1.

Deelee,

Even though Hillary blew off the votes in Michigan

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=19188859

“It’s clear: This election they’re having is not going to count for anything. I personally did not think it made any difference whether or not my name was on the ballot,” she said.

Obama should let her have them…and the delegates from Florida.
She’s still going to lose, then who can she blame? Who will be the new enemy?

Hey Susan, I read a post that was promoting Gregoire as Obama’s VP and I nearly spit coffee all over my screen.

Can you imagine?? After all the trouble she had getting elected and a nearly divided Dem party, (several of whom refused to even cast a vote for governor)it would be the ultimate irony.

Bond of the NAACP tried to intervene, he wrote Dean a passionate letter early on warning Dean that he was infringing on the civil rights of many minorities and Dean basically shot him down with the rules are the rules…it is such a stupid argument, how do you even contend with it? You can make rules for anything, that doesn’t make it right…but if they refuse to see what they are doing is wrong, how can you help them?

The same people who are now. By the way, she followed that statement by saying that DNC can not NOT count MI & FL. Let’s get it straight.

If Hillary is the second coming how come she is not winning. How come she has no money. How come Obama is floating in money. If Hillary can’t beat Obama she just ain’t all that. The reason she is even close in numbers is because of the republicans registering Dem. and voting for her. They want her to be the nominee BAD. That is just what America needs is more of that crap.

I can’t wait to see this site after Obama is the nominee. You will either join the right wing or this site will shut down. Having NoQuarter get behind Obama after all this crap would be disgusting.

I think we should be prepared for a Democratic civil war. The Obama people already have their excuse; by staying in the race, Hillary fatally weakened him for the Fall campaign.

Having No Quarter get behind Obama if he’s the nominee would be disgusting all right. Because those of us that come here don’t want him to be the nominee and don’t think that with the disenfranchising of voters in two states he has any right to ANY Democrat vote.

And how simple minded you are in that you can only thing of 2 scenarios. Anti-Obama = Pro-Republican in you mind? You really do need to take a course in rational thinking. It’s like saying I don’t like orange to I’ll always take green instead.

If you don’t like it here, why come here? And if you are so sure your candidate is gonna win, why do you care what us “losers” are doing or saying? Maybe, like your candidate you aren’t all that much in favor of Democracy.

If I were a super delegate, I’d tell’em all to take a flying leap.

I thought it was Obama who was supposed to be the second coming??? Can’t close the deal huh? It would be so much easier for him if Hillary just stepped out wouldn’t it. But she’s not, and we’re not, and this isn’t over yet. I think you Obamabots are in for a big wake-up call. Silly remark about Republicans supporting her, when he has been supporting in all the elections “register for the day as a Democrat and vote for me” campaign. Why did the Republicans tell their people to “leave him alone,”, maybe because they know he is a much weaker candidate? It has been proven in quite a few states, that Hillary won the Democractic vote, and we don’t even won’t to go into the baloney known as a caucus. He has managed to build up a slight delegate lead by taking over caucuses (unfairly, from what I have read) and winning red states-whoopee. That will do us a lot of good in the GE. He will, if the nominee, lose big time, in the GE election.

Has MyDD pulled this story? The link appears to be broken! If so, this is the third anti-Obama post that I know of that has been pulled in the last few days. What’s going on?