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Breaking: Larry Johnson Interviewed for A.P. Story on Piracy Crisis

By SusanUnPC on April 13, 2009 at 11:35 PM in Commander in Chief, Larry Johnson, National Security, Piracy, President Barack Obama, Somalia

(bumped up from afternoon)

For today’s A.P. story, “Obama draws praise, but piracy escalation feared,” Larry Johnson was telephoned and interviewed extensively by London-based A.P. reporter Gregory Katz:

[...]

Some military strategists believe it may ultimately be necessary to attack the pirates’ base in Somalia, much as the British used to do two centuries ago. But few have the appetite for another land operation in Somalia, where a U.S. military foray in the early 1990s ended in humiliation. And the cost in civilian casualties would likely be extremely high, some warn.

“That would be nuts,” said Larry Johnson, a former CIA agent and State Department counterterrorism specialist. “These people are not organized into any military force, they are intermingled with women and children. You’re talking about wiping out villages.”

He said the U.S. action—and a French attack a few days earlier on a pirate-held yacht with hostages on board—were corrective measures that did not solve the underlying problem.

“When you allow a bunch of Somali clans to grab their weapons and head to sea and collect millions of dollars in ransom, you can’t be surprised when it gets out of control,” he said. “You need an international coalition, with all the countries that have flag ships, to make it impossible for the pirates to get in a boat and leave the shore. Otherwise the ships will continue to be sitting ducks.”

Johnson has in the past criticized Obama as inexperienced, but he said the new commander in chief deserves credit for using established national security procedures to deal with the crisis while refraining from making comments that would have inflamed the situation.

“He stepped back and let the professionals do what they are supposed to do,” Johnson said. “Since the 1980s we’ve built national security doctrine for how to handle these matters, and Obama allowed these procedures to operate.”

Charles Heyman, a defense specialist and former British army officer, said the Obama administration showed its resolve by refusing pay ransom for Phillips’ release.

“That would have been disastrous,” he said. “America would have been a laughingstock and we really don’t need that.”

But he said history shows pirates can only be defeated if nations unite, which is not happening.

“As long as governments don’t come together and defeat it, it goes on like a plague,” he said. “People have to be very, very tough with this.”

The U.S. rescue effort was a clear success in tactical terms, but Vice Adm. Bill Gortney, commander of U.S. Naval Forces Central Command, warned that it could lead to increased violence in the region. … Read all.

h/t American Girl In Italy

  • http://noquarter foxyladi14

    wow..you tell them .. Larry..
    we are so proud of you..

  • Marco Duato

    interesting analysis–thanks.

  • politicalidentitycrisis

    Larry, if you start drinking that kool aid and saying stuff like, “No. It wasn’t a bow.” and stuff like that, I’ll scream!

    • J.J. (The PUMA)

      All we ask from you, Larry is intellectual honesty. So, if the guy has a good day, call it that way. We have seen many cases where the president screwed up an operation: Kennedy in the Bay of Pigs, Carter in the Iranian Hostage rescue. So if Barky gave the command, and kept his civilian hands off of the details, that deserves praise.

      Oh, and by the way. That was not a bow. Obama was trying to shake hands with somebody who was passed out on the floor.

      • Benjamin

        I think Obama deserves some “credit” for the bow as well. At least he didn’t lose his balance and fall over; at least he didn’t rip his pants in the rear; and at least he didn’t vomit (remember Bush 41?) on King Abdullah’s shoes . . er, sandals.

        • CentralMass

          Hmmm. If he had split his pants, most of MSNBC’s “talent” pool would have fallen out of his backside.

      • politicalidentitycrisis

        I just hope if Larry goes MSM that he will bring up criticism of Obama when needed, too.

  • http://theheraclitanfire.blogspot.com/ Craig Della Penna

    Question: Did the AP know beforehand that LJ was going to give Obama a pat on the head?

    If so, it begs the question: does the AP filter comments about Obama?

    In other words, do you have to make pro-Obama statements to get an AP interview?

    • Benjamin

      I wondered about that too. Interesting that Larry gives some very rare credit to Obama, and it breaks through to Big Media. However, this whole pirate incident is definitely in Larry’s area of expertise.

      • Ferd Berfle

        Larry’s area of expertise.

        I think that is why they asked him to be interviewed. It had nothing to do with his somewhat subdued support of the Administration. From experience I can tell you that Larry takes no prisoners. My backside still hurts (and I’m a real supporter of him and his views).

        • Ferd Berfle

          I should add that the “backside hurts” was from a response by Larry to a comment I made a couple of months ago on this website and not from actually working with Larry, which I have never done. I just want to make THAT clear.

    • elise

      Well, Craig since they usually only interview certified Obama lunatics, it’s surprising they would interview someone with the integrity to tell the truth without giving the impression this was a miracle performed by the messiah.

  • david

    Very interesting – I asked the question in a previous post about Mr. Johnson’s thoughts on the underlying problem, and this would seem to be the answer… Somalia is too big and messy for military intervention, and the best option to properly patrol the affected sea lanes.

    Of course, I’ve read that that will take 200+ ships. I suppose you can strategically position certain types of a US/other nations with capable ships – perhaps a centrally located CTF, frigates with air capabilities here and there, and the fill-ins certainly don’t need to be front line ships…

    But coming up with enough ships certainly seems to be a problem.

    It’s really amazing how slimmed down the world’s navies have become.

    There were more than 1200 warships – surface ships and that’s NOT counting transports – involved in the Normandy landings.

    I’d be willing to bet you couldn’t come up with 1200 surface ships if you combined ALL the world’s navies today.

    • elise

      A Normandy type invasion might not be possible now even with an abundance of ships, David. I remember a statement credited to Einstein after WW11. In response to a question about whether or not the next world war would be fought with nuclear weapons, he said he didn’t know how WW3 would be fought, but WW4 would be fought with sticks and stones. The great armadas are a thing of the past, outdated and impractical.

  • pm317

    Let us not forget there are some 200 hostages still in Somalia taken by these pirates. Not every country has these superbly trained Navy or the resources to get there in time to rescue their crew. That is one reason why everybody looks up to America to play the international cop, stand with those who can’t defend themselves and do the right thing. It is true for piracy and true for terrorism. 0bama got lucky this time. But his general attitude of “can’t we all get along,” “no preconditions,” “respect for terrorists,” and such will not work well because the rest of the world looks up to America for help if for no other reason than that they have well trained military assets and resources.

  • KintheNorthwest

    I have to give the Obamas credit they really know how to entertain..
    Good show Michelle and BO.

  • steve

    Ahhh, the thing that irks me about giving the guy credit is, this is I believe, it’s just standard operating procedure for the guy; sit back and let the advisors come to a consensus & then follow the majority opinion.
    This time luckily, the advisors he depended on are in a profession that does not suffer fools in positions’ of power. Versus the domestic team he listens to that couldn’t run a hot dog stand for profit without adult supervision.

    • Patience

      Ditto — I feel the same way.

  • catherine

    My response to James Guglielmino from the previous Obama/Somali pirates post. I guess it would take any more comments there. Why I despise 0bama?

    The cause of my everlasting contempt? Two words:

    DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES!

    And if you don’t know what this race-baiting, vote stealing, cheating, lying, incompetent neophyte did and ENCOURAGED his followers to do to Clinton and her supporters starting in February 2007 then you are completely deaf and blind or simply don’t see anything wrong with 0bama and his minions(so called “democrats”) behaving in such a way that makes Ken Starr, Lucianne Goldberg and all the other rabid frothing at the mouth haters from the 90′s look like amateurs.

    If you still hav’nt figured out how Howard Dean gerrymandered the caucuses and delegates as well screwing over FL/MI than it’s simply because you DON’T WANT TO KNOW. FL Dems did NOT want to move our primary we were NOT given a choice. Do your homework on how and why it happened.

    That will NEVER EVER be forgiven. NEVER!

    It would take more than a comment to list EVERY SINGLE thing that 0bama and his cult did to both Clintons as well as To Hillary’s supporters but our memories are long; we have kept the articles, the videos, the screen shots ALL documenting every slander, smear and orgy of hate and hypocrisy that was indulged in by 0 and his minions and we WILL NEVER FORGET.

    • Benjamin

      [stands up and cheers] Hell naw, I ain’t fergittin!

  • catherine

    Larry, I apologize. I could’nt properly respond to James question in the other post …I think everyone else was responding for me so it did’nt allow further comments. Sorry.

  • candymarl

    Obama did his job by staying out of the way. Period.
    After getting nothing from the G20 Obama is now getting kudos even from critics.

    Is this the crisis Biden predicted in the first six months of Obama’s Presidency?

    Story breaks – His brother is an accused pedophile.
    Story breaks – His illegal immigrant aunt gets another hearing and Obama proproses blanket amnesty.
    Story breaks – Obama’s bowing to the Saudi King like a servant. Not a peep from one black organiztion.
    Story breaks – Obama spends trillions and out does Bush. He also grabs more powers and continues domestic spying.

    Then the predicted crisis occurs and even Obama’s critics start to sing his praises. How interesting.

    • candymarl

      That’s ‘organization’.

    • Ferd Berfle

      That’s OK, candymarl. When the chickens come home to roost, That One and the Bots will be knee-deep in chicken-flickins. That’s when those of us who have had to endure this wretched love-fest will get to have a well-deserved belly-laugh.

      It ain’t over ’til the last chicken roosts, as it were.

    • cynic

      Should an objective person not form opinions about each thing a president does based upon the particulars of that situation?

      • candymarl

        You may do that. But things do not happen in a vacuum. The big picture and what people say does matter.

        I didn’t predict a crisis. Joe Biden did. Funny how it happened just as Obama’s approval ratings were dropping. If this were Bush it wouldn’t be dismissed as ‘just one of those things’.

        Funny how it seems Mr. Johnson can only get on major media when he sings Obama’s praises. Why don’t they ask him when he’s critical?

        The fix is in. Again.

        • TeakwoodKite

          The fix is in. Again

          Does a salmon swim upstream every seven years? :)

        • cynic

          Maybe they sought his opinion because it’s an area where he has unusual expertise. He’s been an outspoken critic of Obama, so it’s unlikely they were shopping for positive spin.

          • candymarl

            One more time. They didn’t ask Mr. Johnson on when he was an outspoken critic. Only when he praised Obama. What is it about that you don’t get?

            Also where are the major news stories about Obama and Rezko? Whitewater dragged on for years even after Bill Clinton left the WH. Why no major stories and ‘on-going investigations’ about Obama and his Rezko (convicted felon) land deal?

      • Ferd Berfle

        If your opinion were objective, little bot, I’d say you have a point. But you aren’t and you don’t. Find another site on which to blather and badger, fool.

    • Benjamin

      Yes, interesting analysis, but I don’t think this is even close to the type of crisis that Biden said would test Obama’s mettle. If I had to identify an impending international crisis that would qualify, I would simply look at what Benjamin Netanyahu recently said: “If the U.S. doesn’t do anything to stop Iran from acquring nuclear weapons, then Israel will.” So there’s a real possibility that we might be looking at a future Israeli strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities.

  • catherine

    Great interview Larry! Even when I don’t always agree with you I respect and value your impressive knowledge and experience! Kudos to you Monsieur Johnson!

  • Patience

    I feel the same way.

  • BARB

    http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney12032008.html

    “Many European, US and Asian shipping firms – notably Switzerland’s Achair Partners and Italy’s Progresso – signed dumping deals in the early 1990s with Somalia’s politicians and militia leaders. This meant they could use the coast as a toxic dumping ground. This practice became widespread as the country descended into civil war.

    Nick Nuttall of the UN Environment Programme said,

    “European companies found it was very cheap to get rid of the waste.”

    When the Asian tsunami of Christmas 2005 washed ashore on the east coast of Africa, it uncovered a great scandal. Tons of radioactive waste and toxic chemicals drifted onto the beaches after the giant wave dislodged them from the sea bed off Somalia. Tens of thousands of Somalis fell ill after coming into contact with this cocktail. They complained to the United Nations (UN), which began an investigation.

    “There are reports from villagers of a wide range of medical problems such as mouth bleeds, abdominal hemorrhages, unusual skin disorders and breathing difficulties,” the UN noted.

    Some 300 people are believed to have died from the poisonous chemicals.

    In 2006 Somali fishermen complained to the UN that foreign fishing fleets were using the breakdown of the state to plunder their fish stocks. These foreign fleets often recruited Somali militias to intimidate local fishermen. Despite repeated requests, the UN refused to act. Meanwhile the warships of global powers that patrol the strategically important Gulf of Aden did not sink or seize any vessels dumping toxic chemicals off the coast.

    So angry Somalis, whose waters were being poisoned and whose livelihoods were threatened, took matters into their own hands. Fishermen began to arm themselves and attempted to act as unofficial coastguards.” (Socialist Worker)

    The origins of piracy in Somalia is considerably different than the narrative in the media which perpetuates the stereotype of scary black men pillaging on the high seas. In fact, it is the pirates who are the victims of attacks on their territorial waters by corporate polluters. Because there is no functioning central government, there’s no one to defend the health and safety of the Somali people from foreign intruders who choose to use their country as a dumping ground.

    • Baba Rum Raisin

      >>> …signed dumping deals in the early 1990s with Somalia’s politicians and militia leaders

      Perhaps the Somalis might seek redress of their grievances from that quarter rather than from US, German, French and Italian shipowners/operators.

  • david

    Well.

    First, let me say that I’ve enjoyed reading Mr. Johnson’s analysis on all matters Somali pirates – I’m something of an armchair foreign policy buff, and I’ve always been particularly fascinated by maritime and naval history/geopolitics. It’s good to see he hasn’t slipped a bit with the no-nonsense analysis; even when I’d disagree, I never felt I was disagreeing with a strawman.

    I do have to say, though… and I do understand its the old Springsteen conundrum (is it Bruce’s fault that Born in the USA was absconded as a fist pumping anthem?)

    I used to be a regular reader and frequent commenter back in 2007. I’ve always been a politically active Democrat, but I like to think of myself as not really having a foreign policy ‘ideology’…

    Not living in an internet cave, I was certainly aware of the primary wars. I was, frankly, rather annoyed with both sides of the squabbling — the chances of EITHER a Clinton OR a Obama ticket getting my vote was probably about 90%.

    But that’s not my point…

    Once upon a time, I used to come here not just for the insight – but also the discussions that were sometimes quite interesting and just as insightful as the posts (not always, to be sure… but there were certainly moments).

    I just find it sad that while LJ still provides the grist, the wheels in the threads seem totally incapable of milling it.

    I actually found myself dragged into a tit for tat that I thought I’d had last APRIL — and I’m not even a particularly strong supporter of the President…. because that’s all anyone wants to talk about.

    Not to pick on Catherine above, but come on…

    How many times does that need to be posted? How many times has it (or something approximating it) been posted?

    Aren’t there blogs or even other threads here (I don’t recognize any of the new posters putting up threads) where that never-ending mau-mauing can happen?

    I fully expect to be dismissed as a kool-aid drinker or whatever — and that’s fine, I get it — I was clearly wrong in thinking the comments section here MUST again be a place to talk about something besides how evil Obama is, so mea culpa.

    Maybe I’ll check back in a few months, but for now – it would seem I’ll just be sticking with RSS reads of posts from LJ on substantive national security matters.

    • catherine

      This was in response to a koolaid drinker who wanted to know WHY I despise the 0. I think I made it pretty clear that as so many others answered for me no further comments would post beneath the original question in that thread. Oh so sorry that my right to free expression offended your koolaid sensibilities.

    • politicalidentitycrisis

      Well, buh-bye then! You can head on over to Daily Kos if you’re looking for Olove in all the wrong places.

      I don’t care who the President is, just as long as he/she is fairly and honestly elected, loves and wants to protect this country, and has done the hard work involved to earn the job. That right there is why Barack Hussein Obama will never have my respect. He lied, cheated, and stole his way into a job that he never earned, and he certainly hates America and Americans. Anyone who would throw a temper tantrum to get a job that he didn’t care enough to put in the work to earn is just a complete scumbag in my eyes and that is why, to me, Barack Obama is nothing but a POS!

  • rickya

    Giving Obama praise for not interfering is like applauding the Tenor for clearing his throat(from Dangerous Liaisons)

    We don’t know that he stayed out of it. All we know is that he was not interested in it a couple of days ago. That doesn’t mean that he stayed out of it it can mean that he doesn’t care.

    There are some indications that it was Obama that was preventing the military from doing their jobs in the first place.

    It took an appearance from a navy seal on CNN to twist the arms of the Obama administration into action.

    • shadow

      My question is why did it take four days to rescue this captain from four 16-19 year olds. The captain jumps off the life raft and apparently there were no seals in place to take out the pirates. Then suddenly three days later it’s a whole different scenario. Something does not pass the smell test to me. Something must have made Obama change his mind.

      • FLDemFem

        Well, not every ship in the Navy has a contingent of Navy SEALs, so they had to wait for them to get there and scope out the situation before they could act. Not saying it couldn’t have happened faster, just that there aren’t enough SEALs to have a group on every ship in the Navy.

    • James

      rickya,

      You’re a moron. You would blame Obama before even knowing the outcome. Makes you a reverse bot, one who believes Obama can only do wrong (as opposed to a bot who believes Obama can do no wrong).

      • rickya

        You are the moron. The outcome doesn’t matter when it comes to giving credit!!! If a team wins with one of the members dragging his feet, will you congratulate that team member? Of course not!!!

        The outcome doesn’t matter to the credit being given out! Were the navy seals amazing? Absolutely!!! Were the navy seals heroes? Absolutely!!! Does Obama deserve any credit for the outcome??? NO

        • James

          You’re delusional. The US team won, Obama was part of that team whether you like it or not. In a NBA championship, all the players get a ring, even the bench warmers.

          You need to grow up and quit being so ignorant.

          • rickya

            They all get a ring but should the benchwarmer be congragulated? Please….you are delusional!

            It is really funny when people who are obviously stupid are the first to throw insults. You are the one who needs to grow up and stop drinking the koolaid.

            • James

              Stop drinking the koolaid? I didn’t vote for Obama TWICE.

              You are as dumb as most of the bots I’ve met. You spin and distort like them. At least some bots are able to form a coherent argument, unlike yourself.

              Read a book or something. I wonder what other extremist views you have.

  • xax

    WRONG LARRY!!! WRONG!!!

    From what I heard, it was not because he sat back and let other people do their job, it was due to his bold and decisive action. His and his alone!! At least that’s what I heard from the people having constant orgasms in the media.

    Although I do have a disagreement. This notion of nations bandying together to confront a pirate threat. Is it in the UN sense or that each nation needs to “man up” and actively protect their ships (vs paying ransom), thereby acting collectively. If it’s the latter, I can agree. If it’s the former, I cna not. Simply because I think a UN like approach to anything, given the UN trackrecord, would be a complete disaster. The most we would get from that are sternly worded letters and resolutions to the pirates

    • avwrobel

      That’s about the size of it Xax! I can hear Obambi at the briefing:
      “If I give the go ahead is there more than a 10% chance I’ll look bad?”
      “Do you really think we can take that lifeboat with 2 destroyers without killing the hostage and making me look bad?”
      “If this thing blows up, is Hillary over there so I can blame her?”
      Give Obambi credit Larry?!? You’re falling into the MSM trap of sucking up to maintain access! Stop it!!

      • rose

        As I see it you are right on …….those are my thoughts,it only took him four days and dismissve tones coming from him. IF you notice all the MSM covers his ass with nonsense pieces about him and his familywhen his actions are questionable..

        I thought he didn’t want his daughters to be in the news?

        Oh and they finally got the dog and it wasn’t from a shelter.. he can’t even keep his word about a freaking dog!!

  • HARP

    Watch this video…..Obama mistakenly says privacy instead of piracy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJJS-4FzDoE

    • Clara Barton

      I heard it when he said it, and wondered if I’d heard correctly. Don’t know if he ever realized what he said but he was pretty smooth if he did know.

    • http://noquarter foxyladi14

      LOL.THANKS.HARP…

  • texaslatina

    wow!- impressive. i agree with foxiladi14. i am so proud of you. i am rootin for ya larry! whoo-hoo!!

  • AX10

    I agree with Larry. Obama allowed the professionals to do their jobs correctly.

    • Ferd Berfle

      Or, more to the point, the professionals told him to lay low, not flap his jib, and let them do the heavy lifting, to which he probably said, “Okey-doke”.

      • http://noquarter foxyladi14

        cause thats what he does best..almost like voting …present..

  • http://www.dwarfhamster.com dst

    So this whole pirate thing is just another human movement with some degree of reasonable intension (protecting ones enviornment) at the beginning that with time and opportunity twisted itself into something else directed by that so human a characteristic, greed. I doubt this current batch of pirates have much interest in going back to fishing, about as much as the average Afghan farmer has of destroying his poppies and reverting to some crop will probably die before it gets to market and if it gets to market will bring him pennies vs. $’s for the other. Now I am hearing of plans to 1- take out the pirates and 2- support the Somali people. The first step seems possible, but as to step 2, anyone with the brain power to be reading this blog has to have some consept of the state of our economy and that of our other so called civilized freinds. Sure we could do a quick Mini Berlin air lift and bringing in a few C-5′s full of food that would make a great photo-op but for how long. I doubt the fish are coming back soon and even if the dumping has stopped, I’m sure there are plenty of containers that with time will rush and shed there toxins as time goes by.
    This subject always takes me back to the Diag at the center of the Univ. of Michigan campus April 1968 (a time when you would be laughed at if you suggested GM might declare bankruptcy 40 yrs. later). But back to the subject, in the few days before the first environmental march on W-DC any body who was anybody in this movement got up and spoke from the stairs of the Grad-Library. I was a third year engineering student but actively working on my Pre-Med requirements. After my 2-3PM Organic Chemistry Class and before my 4pm elective course A History of Warfare, I had an hour off and by chance a man got of to speak and what he said I will never forget. His name was Murray Bookchin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Bookchin
    What he said was basically, although I am more a local politician (from the lower east side of NYC) then an environmentalist, I believe this: There are now 4.2 Billion of us on this planet (I think that was the figure then) and unless you figure out how to stop the growth all of your efforts to protect the environment will be in vain. Well now with 6.3 Billon of us and growing I do believe he has been proved correct and since this population growth problem remains as taboo a subject now as then, I have to remain a pessimist about anything but a patch solution that can not last. dst

  • I’m a Linda too

    Good for Larry. Nice piece.

  • SantaFeK

    Larry,
    Please to read this. Thank you.

  • Roger

    In business, the inexperienced always have to go by the book–they don’t have the experience to know when it is the right way and when it’s disastrous. So, it looks like the neophyte was lucky this time…

    I think Catherine’s comments on the primaries cannot be reiterated enough, much as there has never been enough said about how incredibly destructive it was for the GOP and the press to go after President Clinton for a mere domestic indiscretion.