Comments on: Bush’s Tortured Logic http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/ Sun, 27 May 2012 07:03:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Julie http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1189245 Julie Sun, 19 Apr 2009 03:53:38 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1189245 Where have we heard this following orders defense? Just about ever war crimes trial in the history of mankind. At some point someone has to stand up and say NO. I am not going to do that. The new adminstration may prosecute the people who actually wrote the memos and gave the orders and okay. That is still very much open and up to the DOJ. Where have we heard this following orders defense? Just about ever war crimes trial in the history of mankind. At some point someone has to stand up and say NO. I am not going to do that.

The new adminstration may prosecute the people who actually wrote the memos and gave the orders and okay. That is still very much open and up to the DOJ.

]]> By: Julie http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1189243 Julie Sun, 19 Apr 2009 03:49:57 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1189243 Larry, Great to see you are again writing about something you know and not just Obama bashing. I think you need to get off this boring Obama bashing. It is getting old. Too many nuts have taken over your website. Get back to some of your more insightful posts. It is way more valuable than all the nutty anti-obama posts on here and your circle of 100 or so NQbots that spend every waking hour looking for ways to slime and smear our President. Larry,

Great to see you are again writing about something you know and not just Obama bashing.

I think you need to get off this boring Obama bashing. It is getting old.

Too many nuts have taken over your website.

Get back to some of your more insightful posts. It is way more valuable than all the nutty anti-obama posts on here and your circle of 100 or so NQbots that spend every waking hour looking for ways to slime and smear our President.

]]> By: RebelCarol http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1187567 RebelCarol Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:24:24 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1187567 Larry how then do we extract information from the enemy if we don't do some form of torture? We can't coddle them for God's sake. Nudity? Bugs? Give me a break! Waterboarding? If waterboarding gets the information needed to keep America safe, then I say go for it. These incarcerated combatants were not in an organized State military wearing a uniform, they were/are terrorists therefore, they do not have the umbrella of the Geneva Conventions. America is becoming the laughing stock of the world faster than it did under GWB. We are now considered weak. Larry how then do we extract information from the enemy if we don’t do some form of torture? We can’t coddle them for God’s sake.

Nudity? Bugs? Give me a break! Waterboarding? If waterboarding gets the information needed to keep America safe, then I say go for it. These incarcerated combatants were not in an organized State military wearing a uniform, they were/are terrorists therefore, they do not have the umbrella of the Geneva Conventions.

America is becoming the laughing stock of the world faster than it did under GWB. We are now considered weak.

]]> By: Make Them Accountable / Media & Politics (one section only today) http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1187362 Make Them Accountable / Media & Politics (one section only today) Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:39:21 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1187362 [...] Bush’s Tortured Logic (by Larry Johnson at No Quarter) When the question first arose about what techniques were appropriate for using to interrogate terrorist suspects I drew on my own experience as a “subject” during a CIA hostage interrogation training course… I was wrong. I was in an exercise that was going to end and I knew the people running it could not hurt me or they would face punishment. Zubaydah did not have that option. Moreover I was not familiar with the law. When I took time to read the UN Convention Against Torture I received an eye-opening education. The law is clear. What Bush authorized was torture and was against the law. [...] [...] Bush’s Tortured Logic (by Larry Johnson at No Quarter) When the question first arose about what techniques were appropriate for using to interrogate terrorist suspects I drew on my own experience as a “subject” during a CIA hostage interrogation training course… I was wrong. I was in an exercise that was going to end and I knew the people running it could not hurt me or they would face punishment. Zubaydah did not have that option. Moreover I was not familiar with the law. When I took time to read the UN Convention Against Torture I received an eye-opening education. The law is clear. What Bush authorized was torture and was against the law. [...]

]]> By: Retired http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1187359 Retired Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:36:36 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1187359 Larry wrote: "The law is clear." Apparently to at least four former Justice department lawyers, one of whom is now a Federal judge, the law was clearly different from the way Larry and many others, including myself, interpret it. What this episode shows more clearly than any hypothetical from Harvard Law School the extreme danger when a POTUS (in this case, Bush) has such a remarkably flawed character and is assisted by willing accomplices (the DoJ lawyers) who are equally flawed. Their immoral actions have now led to a Hobsonian choice for their successors of doing the right thing and thus prompting a Constitutional crisis in so doing by in effect declaring, for the first time in our nation's history, that an Attorney General's legal opinion cannot be relied upon by Americans acting in an official capacity or, alternatively, acting to not prompt said Constitutional crisis and thus essentially sanctioning illegal and immoral behavior by Americans acting in an official capacity on our behalf. Either way, we lose. Thanks, George! Larry wrote: “The law is clear.”
Apparently to at least four former Justice department lawyers, one of whom is now a Federal judge, the law was clearly different from the way Larry and many others, including myself, interpret it.
What this episode shows more clearly than any hypothetical from Harvard Law School the extreme danger when a POTUS (in this case, Bush) has such a remarkably flawed character and is assisted by willing accomplices (the DoJ lawyers) who are equally flawed. Their immoral actions have now led to a Hobsonian choice for their successors of doing the right thing and thus prompting a Constitutional crisis in so doing by in effect declaring, for the first time in our nation’s history, that an Attorney General’s legal opinion cannot be relied upon by Americans acting in an official capacity or, alternatively, acting to not prompt said Constitutional crisis and thus essentially sanctioning illegal and immoral behavior by Americans acting in an official capacity on our behalf.
Either way, we lose. Thanks, George!

]]> By: Torture is Torture… I will never forget the moment I saw those pictures. Here is the backstory. « Valentine Bonnaire http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1187356 Torture is Torture… I will never forget the moment I saw those pictures. Here is the backstory. « Valentine Bonnaire Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:33:55 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1187356 [...] Bush’s Tortured Logic [...] [...] Bush’s Tortured Logic [...]

]]> By: Carlaforhillary http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1187140 Carlaforhillary Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:17:53 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1187140 What is the symbol of the muslim faith? And no, I wouldn't have cared if he spoke at a mosque with the symbols showing. That would make sense, if the symbols were showing b/c they are there and we already know he would be there. Yes, if those who are standing up for Obama believe it was right what he did b/c of the separation of church and state, then Obama shouldn't have spoken there at all. What is the symbol of the muslim faith? And no, I wouldn’t have cared if he spoke at a mosque with the symbols showing. That would make sense, if the symbols were showing b/c they are there and we already know he would be there.

Yes, if those who are standing up for Obama believe it was right what he did b/c of the separation of church and state, then Obama shouldn’t have spoken there at all.

]]> By: Carlaforhillary http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1187135 Carlaforhillary Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:14:50 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1187135 Yeah, but Obama had no problem sending thousands of flyers to South Carolina with him pictured with Christ behind him. He is a hypocrite. Yeah, but Obama had no problem sending thousands of flyers to South Carolina with him pictured with Christ behind him. He is a hypocrite.

]]> By: TeakWoodKite http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1187000 TeakWoodKite Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:11:49 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1187000 Not that I am surprised that BO's DOJ would not want to prosecute the people involved, but the answer to the "why not" part of it needs illumination. Perhaps the trail leads to the journey to the dark side. Not that I am surprised that BO’s DOJ would not want to prosecute the people involved, but the answer to the “why not” part of it needs illumination.

Perhaps the trail leads to the journey to the dark side.

]]> By: I Peter http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1186989 I Peter Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:58:15 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1186989 There is outrage only among highly conscious people, a small minority in this country. The great mass is not outraged or demanding justice simply because they <em>wanted</em> the "enemy" to be tortured. That's the reality no one seems to want to acknowledge. The American people know they are themselves guilty, so they can't work up too much outrage against BushCo or the CIA. And the last thing we want to consider is how many of the tortured weren't guilty of anything. According to the Taguba report, this would be 80-90% at Abu Ghraib who were simply rounded up in dragnets or turned in by acquaintances with personal grudges, or in Afghanistan by bounty hunters to whom we paid good money to bring us suspects. The desire to torture is as much in the American soul, when provoked, as in anyone else's, but because we always see our motives as noble, we won't see it as torture. Too much self-examination is required, and we really don't like history too much--we want to get on with things! There is outrage only among highly conscious people, a small minority in this country. The great mass is not outraged or demanding justice simply because they wanted the “enemy” to be tortured. That’s the reality no one seems to want to acknowledge. The American people know they are themselves guilty, so they can’t work up too much outrage against BushCo or the CIA.

And the last thing we want to consider is how many of the tortured weren’t guilty of anything. According to the Taguba report, this would be 80-90% at Abu Ghraib who were simply rounded up in dragnets or turned in by acquaintances with personal grudges, or in Afghanistan by bounty hunters to whom we paid good money to bring us suspects.

The desire to torture is as much in the American soul, when provoked, as in anyone else’s, but because we always see our motives as noble, we won’t see it as torture. Too much self-examination is required, and we really don’t like history too much–we want to get on with things!

]]> By: I Peter http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1186982 I Peter Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:49:40 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1186982 There is outrage only among highly conscious people, a small minority in this country. The great mass is not outraged or demanding justice simply because they WANTED the "enemy" to be tortured. That's the reality no one seems to want to acknowledge. The American people know they are themselves guilty, so they can't work up too much outrage against BushCo or the CIA. And the last thing we want to consider is how many of the tortured weren't guilty of anything. According to the Taguba report, this would be 80-90% at Abu Ghraib who were simply rounded up in dragnets or turned in by acquaintances with personal grudges, or in Afghanistan by bounty hunters to whom we paid good money to bring us suspects. The desire to torture is as much in the American soul, when provoked, as in anyone else's, but because we always see our motives as noble, we won't see it as torture. Too much self-examination is required, and we really don't like history too much--we want to get on with things! There is outrage only among highly conscious people, a small minority in this country. The great mass is not outraged or demanding justice simply because they WANTED the “enemy” to be tortured. That’s the reality no one seems to want to acknowledge. The American people know they are themselves guilty, so they can’t work up too much outrage against BushCo or the CIA.

And the last thing we want to consider is how many of the tortured weren’t guilty of anything. According to the Taguba report, this would be 80-90% at Abu Ghraib who were simply rounded up in dragnets or turned in by acquaintances with personal grudges, or in Afghanistan by bounty hunters to whom we paid good money to bring us suspects.

The desire to torture is as much in the American soul, when provoked, as in anyone else’s, but because we always see our motives as noble, we won’t see it as torture. Too much self-examination is required, and we really don’t like history too much–we want to get on with things!

]]> By: Paul http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1186922 Paul Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:35:56 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1186922 In response to evidence that the US has tortured, you are worried about IHS being covered behind a podium. That is unbelievable! In response to evidence that the US has tortured, you are worried about IHS being covered behind a podium. That is unbelievable!

]]> By: Animal Control http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1186865 Animal Control Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:23:18 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1186865 Larry, You have a way of quickly getting to the point and I have little time to read so keep it up. Many appreciate what you do. Larry, You have a way of quickly getting to the point and I have little time to read so keep it up. Many appreciate what you do.

]]> By: Dredd http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1186849 Dredd Fri, 17 Apr 2009 11:43:20 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1186849 The rationale that it is “looking backward” to prosecute but “looking forward” not to prosecute begs the question “looking how far”? Not looking past ones nose renders the direction one is looking moot: http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2009/04/you-must-see-past-your-nose-obama.html The rationale that it is “looking backward” to prosecute but “looking forward” not to prosecute begs the question “looking how far”?

Not looking past ones nose renders the direction one is looking moot:

http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2009/04/you-must-see-past-your-nose-obama.html

]]> By: Donna Brazile http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/21678/bushs-tortured-logic/#comment-1186844 Donna Brazile Fri, 17 Apr 2009 11:32:09 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=21678#comment-1186844 You tell it! You tell it!

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